Ziyulu
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:07 pm

Is the bar open to economy class passengers?
 
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diverdave
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:22 pm

I wonder what the trip cost delta is for a CRJ 700 vs a CRJ 200 or a 50 seat ERJ.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:23 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Is the bar open to economy class passengers?


As it states in the graphic, “self-serve beverage and snack station for our United First customers.”
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:26 pm

I don't see how UA is going to make any money off of this but kudos to them for trying something different.
 
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enilria
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:30 pm

intotheair wrote:
EDIT: the CRJ-550s will be conversions of United's existing CRJ-700s and will not be new build frames.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ual- ... SKCN1PV0BF

It's better that these CRJ-550s are conversions because these planes will be financial pigs if fuel goes up to high levels again. They will be challenged even with mid-price oil. I understand the scope reasons, but i still question the choice.

Also, a seating configuration change is not a new aircraft designation!!!
 
fun2fly
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:30 pm

I like it. For example, if you are in DAY (example) and you have to go to NRT in business. You could hop on a DL flight with F or UA with an ERJ to your international gateway currently. In the future, you would have F offered for the entire trip and that's one more reason to shop UA.

With that being said, I'd love to see the numbers behind it...or just a negotiation tactic that may not happen if relief is given.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:34 pm

UA needs to do something here, their RJ product is so poor compared to Delta. I can't speak to the economics, but their planes are awful in comparison. While UA is at it, they need to stop being the only US3 to not allow carry on bags for basic economy travelers. In Cleveland where I live, Delta and UA compete directly on RJ routes to NY, and I'll tell you which one I choose, it's a no brainer. . . . I'm surely not alone.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:55 pm

They said that they are taking 50, but GoJet only operates 25 for UA. N151GJ-N175GJ.
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
UnitedTristar
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:56 pm

Well I think some of you are looking at this a little backwards, it’s not how much this will cost on existing routes operated by 50 seaters (yes I think there will be some of these swaps), but we should be looking where are they operating long thin high yield routes with 175 that can be swapped to this “new” plane, saving trip costs by eliminating historically empty seats and allowing them to redeploy the 175’s that scarce because of scope to new routes that warrant the extra seats.
 
UnitedTristar
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:59 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
They said that they are taking 50, but GoJet only operates 25 for UA. N151GJ-N175GJ.

If I was guessing I would say probably Mesa frames, they have difficulty staffing, and UA has been threatening to pull frames for a while, but if not there is a market for Used CR7’s out there pretty cheap
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:03 pm

I see a configuration that will never fly or be quickly switched to 70 seats. This is a great way to lose money. My guess is this is an negotiation tactic with the pilots to relax the scope clause.
 
cschleic
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:09 pm

The fact that's it exactly 50 seats vs., say, a few more clearly means it's scope related. They could achieve the same aim with one fewer F and two or four more Y or Y+, or smaller baggage closets. By calling them CRJ-550s, vs. the CRJ-700 they actually are, does that factor into scope definition?
 
LeDcNq7D
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:18 pm

The luggage closets on the 50 seat CRJ-700 are the big deal here. I can't tell you how many connections I have missed waiting for a valet-checked bag.
 
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alex0easy
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:25 pm

Self-serve snack bar? Does that imply that there's one FA and he/she will be (mostly) serving coach pax?
BTW one reason I hate the CRJ7 (compared to CRJ9, and if I'm lucky to be in F) is that there is no lav in the front so be careful when you take advantage of those free drinks :ouch:
The luggage space is nice though.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:26 pm

BBDFlyer wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Thought this was a joke at first. Should be interesting once more details are out. Seems a little ballsy that they're announcing the CRJ 550 as they are already in pretty shaky talks with ALPA regarding scope.

G7 is operating these 550's but they only have 25 CRJ700's, so I'm confused where the other 25 are coming from if they are using existing airframes...definitely something creative coming from UA.

United is scoped out.

Expressjet is getting 25 brand new E175s at 70 sests. GoJet is converting their CRJ700s to 50 seats to make room for the Expressjet E175s.


Sounds like converting CRJ700s to 50 seats is better than retiring them and keeping around CRJ200s. There are some high yielding destinations that use 50 seat jets like HPN, XNA, CID, etc.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:41 pm

Image
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
ilovelamp
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:45 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
I see a configuration that will never fly or be quickly switched to 70 seats. This is a great way to lose money. My guess is this is an negotiation tactic with the pilots to relax the scope clause.


There are no more airframes being added. This in no way impacts scope negotiations and the United pilots will not cave. The sooner Kirby realizes this he can get a deal completed.
 
glbltrvlr
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:45 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I didn't know there was any other requirement than one flight attendant for every 50 sets. Just make a recorded announcement with appropriate pauses for the flight attendant to walk down the aisle and demonstrate.


Exactly. A second FA on a 50 seater would kill the economics even more. FAA requirement is one FA per 50 seats and being able to show an evac time under 90 seconds. Evac time has never been a problem.
 
usa330300
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Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:46 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
seat1a wrote:
What would be premium routes from ORD that warrant the CRJ550? LNK? ICT? Or perhaps a shuttle service to MCI?


Probably routes like:

HSV-ORD
MLI-ORD
XNA-ORD
CID-ORD
TYS-ORD
ROA-ORD
LEX-ORD
ABE-ORD
FSD-ORD
TVC-ORD
SGF-ORD
CRW-ORD

These are all very high fare routes, and for the most part are somewhere between 1-2 hour flights currently flown mostly on 50 seaters.

Obviously some routes like these are possible as well, since most of these larger routes don't see that much mainline, or still see a decent amount of 50 seaters:
CMH-ORD
STL-ORD
IND-ORD
CVG-ORD

Would also think ERI/ORD.
 
jetero
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Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:53 pm

intotheair wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
My question is will this also cause rebalance in other 50 seaters out there? Are they at their max?


The pilot contract has scope restrictions on 70 and 76 seaters, and UA is maxed out there. But there is no real limit to how many 50 seaters UAX can operate.


I don't think that's true, is it? There's a frame cap on the regional fleet in total, no?
 
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Slug71
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:55 pm

Wouldn't it have been better to basically restart CRJ-200 production and have a smaller/lighter airframe?
 
bugsbegone
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:59 pm

LeDcNq7D wrote:
The luggage closets on the 50 seat CRJ-700 are the big deal here. I can't tell you how many connections I have missed waiting for a valet-checked bag.


I agree completely. That alone will dramatically improve the customer satisfaction level with flying on a regional flight.
Last edited by bugsbegone on Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Polot
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:05 pm

Slug71 wrote:
Wouldn't it have been better to basically restart CRJ-200 production and have a smaller/lighter airframe?

If BBD was giving them to UA/the operators for free sure. This is repurposing previously purchased frames.
 
dcchipper
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:06 pm

It appears that there is a mislabeling in the graphic. I believe that the 2 large spaces at the top should be lavs and the 2 smaller spaces at the bottom are the closets.
 
iceberg210
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:10 pm

diverdave wrote:
I wonder what the trip cost delta is for a CRJ 700 vs a CRJ 200 or a 50 seat ERJ.

The only thing I can think of is that due to higher maintenance for the 200 and maybe less efficient engines (thanks to age) that the delta must be smaller than one might think, otherwise I'm not sure how this pencils. Either that or the premium cabin must have high demand. We'll see how long they last, it's a pretty low risk approach, and if scope ever does relax has a really nice reward at the end. Somehow I don't see this selling anymore 700's because it's only when they've depreciated that this pencils, but we'll see. I'm a little surprised that someone either Embraer or Bombardier hasn't come up with a slightly stretched 200 or 145 that could be an updated 50 seater with first. It depends on whether you think 50 seaters have a place in the market or if all things being equal they'd be completely replaced by 70's if scope allowed.
Erik Berg
“Little by little, we advance with each turn. That's how a drill works!”
 
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drerx7
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:11 pm

enilria wrote:
intotheair wrote:
EDIT: the CRJ-550s will be conversions of United's existing CRJ-700s and will not be new build frames.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ual- ... SKCN1PV0BF

It's better that these CRJ-550s are conversions because these planes will be financial pigs if fuel goes up to high levels again. They will be challenged even with mid-price oil. I understand the scope reasons, but i still question the choice.

Also, a seating configuration change is not a new aircraft designation!!!

Well...colloquially no...and I agree.

But it appears as Bombardier is offering it up as a new type certificate according to airwaysmag.com. It's been done before though - the ERJ140.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
Fargo
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:15 pm

Not sure what to think here.

On one hand, this is a great, upgraded experience.

On the other hand, this is kicking the can down the road on the need for more mainline and 76 seat RJs. Why is UA wasting their time here when they could just get the 100 seat E2 and do the same thing?
 
bugsbegone
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:16 pm

dcchipper wrote:
It appears that there is a mislabeling in the graphic. I believe that the 2 large spaces at the top should be lavs and the 2 smaller spaces at the bottom are the closets.


There's no exit rows or wings either. This graphic looks like some thing a college intern did for them.
 
MO11
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:18 pm

enilria wrote:
intotheair wrote:
EDIT: the CRJ-550s will be conversions of United's existing CRJ-700s and will not be new build frames.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ual- ... SKCN1PV0BF

It's better that these CRJ-550s are conversions because these planes will be financial pigs if fuel goes up to high levels again. They will be challenged even with mid-price oil. I understand the scope reasons, but i still question the choice.

Also, a seating configuration change is not a new aircraft designation!!!


The existing CL-600-2C10 aircraft paperwork says "Series 700" which has a max capacity of 78 pax, "Series 701" which has a max capacity of 70 pax, or "Series 702" which has has a max capacity of 68 pax. Pick one to fit your scope clause. The Bombardier press release says "new type certificate" which I hope meant "amended type certificate", which to me means a new CL-600 designator.

Similarly the regular CRJ, had that "Series 440" which covered the Northwest scope clause. And the letter suffixes on the ERJ 170 series are all for scope clause purposes.
 
jetero
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:23 pm

drerx7 wrote:
enilria wrote:
intotheair wrote:
EDIT: the CRJ-550s will be conversions of United's existing CRJ-700s and will not be new build frames.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ual- ... SKCN1PV0BF

It's better that these CRJ-550s are conversions because these planes will be financial pigs if fuel goes up to high levels again. They will be challenged even with mid-price oil. I understand the scope reasons, but i still question the choice.

Also, a seating configuration change is not a new aircraft designation!!!

Well...colloquially no...and I agree.

But it appears as Bombardier is offering it up as a new type certificate according to airwaysmag.com. It's been done before though - the ERJ140.


And AA had to call their MD-80s Super 80s and Delta had to call theirs MD-88s.

The one aircraft that people are surprisingly not mentioning was the CRJ-440, which operated with 9E (I think) and OH.
 
iceberg210
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:24 pm

drerx7 wrote:
enilria wrote:
intotheair wrote:
EDIT: the CRJ-550s will be conversions of United's existing CRJ-700s and will not be new build frames.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ual- ... SKCN1PV0BF

It's better that these CRJ-550s are conversions because these planes will be financial pigs if fuel goes up to high levels again. They will be challenged even with mid-price oil. I understand the scope reasons, but i still question the choice.

Also, a seating configuration change is not a new aircraft designation!!!

Well...colloquially no...and I agree.

But it appears as Bombardier is offering it up as a new type certificate according to airwaysmag.com. It's been done before though - the ERJ140.

Turns out 140 was an actual shrink of 4.7 feet shorter than the 145. The CRJ705 however is exactly the same thing as this.
Erik Berg
“Little by little, we advance with each turn. That's how a drill works!”
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:26 pm

jetero wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
enilria wrote:
It's better that these CRJ-550s are conversions because these planes will be financial pigs if fuel goes up to high levels again. They will be challenged even with mid-price oil. I understand the scope reasons, but i still question the choice.

Also, a seating configuration change is not a new aircraft designation!!!

Well...colloquially no...and I agree.

But it appears as Bombardier is offering it up as a new type certificate according to airwaysmag.com. It's been done before though - the ERJ140.


And AA had to call their MD-80s Super 80s and Delta had to call theirs MD-88s.

The one aircraft that people are surprisingly not mentioning was the CRJ-440, which operated with 9E (I think) and OH.


9E operated the CRJ440, as a 44 seater for NW Airlink. OH operated the CRJ400, which was a 40 seater.
From my cold, dead hands
 
CRJ900
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:26 pm

They should add a forward lavatory in the CRJ700 dedicated to F passengers, use lavatory modules from parked CRJ100/200s to save costs. Would make the F product just a little nicer, me thinks.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
jetero
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:28 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
jetero wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
Well...colloquially no...and I agree.

But it appears as Bombardier is offering it up as a new type certificate according to airwaysmag.com. It's been done before though - the ERJ140.


And AA had to call their MD-80s Super 80s and Delta had to call theirs MD-88s.

The one aircraft that people are surprisingly not mentioning was the CRJ-440, which operated with 9E (I think) and OH.


9E operated the CRJ440, as a 44 seater for NW Airlink. OH operated the CRJ400, which was a 40 seater.


Learn something new every day.

Did they have (obviously moderately) increased legroom or was the aft bulkhead just moved forward?
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:29 pm

ilovelamp wrote:
There are no more airframes being added. This in no way impacts scope negotiations and the United pilots will not cave. The sooner Kirby realizes this he can get a deal completed.


Yes it does as. It sends a message to pilots that they will work around the scope clause and add premium regional capacity in other ways besides adding a new small mainline aircraft.

Although the pilots should call the bluff. This configuration has horrendous economics. It's not a even a true premium configuration. A true premium configuration to reduce the seat count to 50 would land somewhere around 16-20 F seats. This config is a massive waste of floor space with a sky-high CASM.
Last edited by MSPNWA on Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
iceberg210
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:29 pm

Fargo wrote:
Not sure what to think here.

On one hand, this is a great, upgraded experience.

On the other hand, this is kicking the can down the road on the need for more mainline and 76 seat RJs. Why is UA wasting their time here when they could just get the 100 seat E2 and do the same thing?

The problem is there is a weight limit along with a passenger limit. I think that was put in so you didn't have say 737's configured in all premium 70 seat layouts that would fit in 'scope'. Although I suppose this could be a one two punch with a weight relax although I don't understand how that works from the pilots point of view.
Erik Berg
“Little by little, we advance with each turn. That's how a drill works!”
 
jetero
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:31 pm

Well I'm suppose someone in the know can compare the trip cost of a CRJ-200 with a CRJ-700 at, say, 500 miles and see what sort of fare premium is necessary.
 
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enilria
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:31 pm

MO11 wrote:
enilria wrote:
intotheair wrote:
EDIT: the CRJ-550s will be conversions of United's existing CRJ-700s and will not be new build frames.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ual- ... SKCN1PV0BF

It's better that these CRJ-550s are conversions because these planes will be financial pigs if fuel goes up to high levels again. They will be challenged even with mid-price oil. I understand the scope reasons, but i still question the choice.

Also, a seating configuration change is not a new aircraft designation!!!


The existing CL-600-2C10 aircraft paperwork says "Series 700" which has a max capacity of 78 pax, "Series 701" which has a max capacity of 70 pax, or "Series 702" which has has a max capacity of 68 pax. Pick one to fit your scope clause. The Bombardier press release says "new type certificate" which I hope meant "amended type certificate", which to me means a new CL-600 designator.

Similarly the regular CRJ, had that "Series 440" which covered the Northwest scope clause. And the letter suffixes on the ERJ 170 series are all for scope clause purposes.

So, the real answer is that they have to re-certify the aircraft to meet the scope clause language. Still lame.
 
glbltrvlr
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:32 pm

jetero wrote:
And AA had to call their MD-80s Super 80s and Delta had to call theirs MD-88s.


Not exactly. AA's decision to use the term Super 80 was a marketing decision to get around some bad press the DC-9s had at the time. The Type Certificate and manufacturing plate on the door still said DC-9. I think the same applied to Delta.
 
jetero
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:36 pm

glbltrvlr wrote:
jetero wrote:
And AA had to call their MD-80s Super 80s and Delta had to call theirs MD-88s.


Not exactly. AA's decision to use the term Super 80 was a marketing decision to get around some bad press the DC-9s had at the time. The Type Certificate and manufacturing plate on the door still said DC-9. I think the same applied to Delta.


And how is that different than this instance?
 
TheKennady2
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:49 pm

So BBD wont be making new 50 seaters? Its just a play on words and numbers to sound like a new Model when all they are doing is redesigning the interior? Or will BBD be selling new 50 seat aircraft to airlines outside of UA?
 
glbltrvlr
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:54 pm

jetero wrote:
glbltrvlr wrote:
jetero wrote:
And AA had to call their MD-80s Super 80s and Delta had to call theirs MD-88s.


Not exactly. AA's decision to use the term Super 80 was a marketing decision to get around some bad press the DC-9s had at the time. The Type Certificate and manufacturing plate on the door still said DC-9. I think the same applied to Delta.


And how is that different than this instance?


Sorry - thought you were saying that AA *had* to change the designation for certification reasons. UA doesn't have to change the designation here and the aircraft certification won't change just because the seating is being reduced. They are choosing to do so, probably to minimize passenger confusion that would occur if some CR7s had substantially different seating than others. Wouldn't surprise me if any new builds in this configuration came with a lower max gross weight and a corresponding reduction in price.
 
ordbosewr
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:59 pm

Fargo wrote:
Not sure what to think here.

On one hand, this is a great, upgraded experience.

On the other hand, this is kicking the can down the road on the need for more mainline and 76 seat RJs. Why is UA wasting their time here when they could just get the 100 seat E2 and do the same thing?


I think you answered your own question.

Clearly, UA does not see the economics of the 100 seat beating this approach.
This does address a customer satisfaction point for many smaller markets in ORD and EWR, we want first class and E+ seating. This accomplishes that. It should also allow the turn times to decrease as luggage handling should be just checked luggage only. (if the added interior spaces work as discussed/planned).

I like it, but I do get the economics aspect, this is a special plane for a special mission. I suspect that this 50 plan test is just that. A test, they can see if it works both operationally, economically and satisfaction wise. If all of those aspects come to together like the theory they have then maybe we will see more conversations.

While I think this is nice, I do not see this as a full 100% replacement for all current 50 seat markets (which is what the flighglobal article says). I see this for some routes that have 50 seaters and need premium seating, due to connections or the like.
 
adam47150
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:17 pm

I could see UA swapping these planes onto routes like EVV-ORD. UA flies 3x daily M-F and 2x Sat and Sun on a mix of CRJ2s and E145s. This would give the route F seats, for the first time I believe, and add additional PE seating. I think there may be 6 seats per flight of PE currently between the two carriers on the route.
 
blockski
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:39 pm

I don't think this is a negotiating ploy with the pilots for scope relief, but rather a move to provide a premium product in small markets connecting to UA's hubs, where UA is at a disadvantage compared to AA and DL.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:42 pm

I thought Scott Kirby was an ULCC guru who powered US into a profitable company after the merge with HP?

Looks like Kirby may have left AA, not because he didn't want to wait for Dougie to retire/ resign, but because Dougie was holding him back?


Good news for UA high value, small market customers. The CRJ550 routes may end up with extremely low margins, or even a loss, but the value to the overall network will be priceless.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:48 pm

If I recall well the CRJ 700 was only marginally more expensive to operate than a CRJ 200 (like 10% more).

I'm convinced UA did its calculation and figured it would extract more profit overall in converting those 50 CRJ 700 into 50 seaters. (I'm sure many "business intensive" thin routes exits that would be profitably better served via a CRJ 550) 

Furthermore, those "new" 550 will free up many precious 76 seaters for better use. (UA being obviously scoped out in 76 seaters).

Finally, the competitive pressure from Delta might also have an impact...Delta's introduction of the A220 will improve big time the quality of its regional offering (cascading effect of upguaging 50 seaters to 76 seaters to A220s)
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:51 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
If I recall well the CRJ 700 was only marginally more expensive to operate than a CRJ 200 (like 10% more).

I'm convinced UA did its calculation and figured it would extract more profit overall in converting those 50 CRJ 700 into 50 seaters. (I'm sure many "business intensive" thin routes exits that would be profitably better served via a CRJ 550) 

Furthermore, those "new" 550 will free up many precious 76 seaters for better use. (UA being obviously scoped out in 76 seaters).

Finally, the competitive pressure from Delta might also have an impact...Delta's introduction of the A220 will improve big time the quality of its regional offering (cascading effect of upguaging 50 seaters to 76 seaters to A220s)


I recall something similar.

Certainly a 50-seat CR7 will not perform as well as a 70-seat CR7, but as Sancho said, I guess this is what they're going for:

Sancho99504 wrote:
Good news for UA high value, small market customers. The CRJ550 routes may end up with extremely low margins, or even a loss, but the value to the overall network will be priceless.


The big question is how the configuration performs in a poor demand environment.
 
ilovelamp
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:45 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:00 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
ilovelamp wrote:
There are no more airframes being added. This in no way impacts scope negotiations and the United pilots will not cave. The sooner Kirby realizes this he can get a deal completed.


Yes it does as. It sends a message to pilots that they will work around the scope clause and add premium regional capacity in other ways besides adding a new small mainline aircraft.

Although the pilots should call the bluff. This configuration has horrendous economics. It's not a even a true premium configuration. A true premium configuration to reduce the seat count to 50 would land somewhere around 16-20 F seats. This config is a massive waste of floor space with a sky-high CASM.


If the economics are so terrible why should the pilots even spend a single second on this topic in negotiations? United had room to grow 50 seat RJs. It’s not the pilots' responsibility to force management to stop this alleged bad economic decision and they certainly shouldn’t have to, in the public's eye, relax scope to make this plan work. If it’s doom to fail as you imply, their pilots don’t have anything to worry about. It’ll work itself out naturally.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1923
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:03 pm

Self-serve beverages - does that include alcohol? IIRC, the FARs require that any alcohol served onboard be served by crew. Does this concept meet that requirement?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.

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