max999
Posts: 1132
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:10 pm

mcdu wrote:
max999 wrote:
mcdu wrote:

Isn’t the world driven by marketing? You buy the new iPhone because Apple markets it as better and more capable. Is it really that much better?

Only in the world of anet could adding comfort to a product be deemed a bad thing.


There are no product improvement and increased comfort with the 550. It's the same narrow CRJ body width, same low ceiling, same tiny lavatory, and same seat pitch. The only real innovation here is the ability to fly within the scope clause without using the old 200; which is not something UA would market to the consumer. My take: removing seats from the existing 700 and claiming it as a great new product is marketing BS.

If you take an existing 700... Removed a bunch of seats and installed luggage racks. Does that make it a 550? UA's competitor could do exactly that and claim they also have a brand new CRJ 550 in their fleet.

You used the iPhone as an example. When Apple released the X, they correctly marketed it as a new product because of substantial new engineered features. OLED screen, face id.


You do realize that the seat pitch is going to be greater? Also the CRJ fuselage is the same as the luxury business jet Challenger series. So it depends on what you put in it to make it a cattle car or luxury. This is closer to the later. But the good thing this is a world of choices and you are free to make your own if this doesn’t work for you. I suspect the majority will like this change.


I reread UA's press release. It does not state seat pitch has increased. It's the same seat pitch for first, economy plus and economy. The overall amount of legroom for the entire plane has increased but that's because there are more first seats than usual. But individual passengers will not get a better seat pitch.

The fuselage width is comfortable for a business jet because those luxury jets are usually configured 1-1 seating. I'm not aware of any commerical CRJ that has a 1-1 seating configuration. You're comparing apples to oranges.

If UA wanted a better experience for their customers and to stay within the scope clause simultaneously... They could have taken an existing 700, installed 50 first class seats and forget about the luggage racks and snack bar. That would have made a lot of customers very happy.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:18 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I love how if this was Delta configuring their aircraft like this everyone would love it but since it's UA everyone has to bash it. I'm pretty sure UA management has some clue what their doing.


There is a reason why DL hasnt done this first, they are probably very leery of a program that allows FA's to do less work. As I mentioned above, a 50 minute flight, who really cares about self serve snacks and a self serve bar. This is just another excuse for a lazy flight attendant to sit for 45 minutes and do very little. What airline wants that? You get much better customer service from interacting as opposed to a 'self serve' bar. A self serve bar on a ULH, that should be a must but on a regional jet that is in the air for 45 minutes? Please....Very bad for customer service. I guess UA doesnt put much faith in its FA's on these shorter flights.


Do you keep a list of your Delta troll posts pre—created or do you make them up on the fly?
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:19 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
seat1a wrote:
What would be premium routes from ORD that warrant the CRJ550? LNK? ICT? Or perhaps a shuttle service to MCI?


Probably routes like:

HSV-ORD
MLI-ORD
XNA-ORD
CID-ORD
TYS-ORD
ROA-ORD
LEX-ORD
ABE-ORD
FSD-ORD
TVC-ORD
SGF-ORD
CRW-ORD

These are all very high fare routes, and for the most part are somewhere between 1-2 hour flights currently flown mostly on 50 seaters.

Obviously some routes like these are possible as well, since most of these larger routes don't see that much mainline, or still see a decent amount of 50 seaters:
CMH-ORD
STL-ORD
IND-ORD
CVG-ORD



A lot of the above flights are under one hour. Lets see if UAX can maintain an acceptable on-time arrivals percentage. Its much more important for someone flying for business to actually get to where they need to get on-time then to have a self serve bar on a 50 minute flight.


The implication is the self-serve bar is going to affect on-time arrival percentage?

Oh Lawd.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:20 pm

I’m pretty sure it’s safe to ignore any comments who assume that there will be no FA service in first just because they mentioned a self serve bar. The first class FA leaves the front and heads to the back after initial service on every 76 seat regional flight I’ve been on.

We’ll see a year from now who is right and who is wrong.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:28 pm

max999 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
max999 wrote:

There are no product improvement and increased comfort with the 550. It's the same narrow CRJ body width, same low ceiling, same tiny lavatory, and same seat pitch. The only real innovation here is the ability to fly within the scope clause without using the old 200; which is not something UA would market to the consumer. My take: removing seats from the existing 700 and claiming it as a great new product is marketing BS.

If you take an existing 700... Removed a bunch of seats and installed luggage racks. Does that make it a 550? UA's competitor could do exactly that and claim they also have a brand new CRJ 550 in their fleet.

You used the iPhone as an example. When Apple released the X, they correctly marketed it as a new product because of substantial new engineered features. OLED screen, face id.


You do realize that the seat pitch is going to be greater? Also the CRJ fuselage is the same as the luxury business jet Challenger series. So it depends on what you put in it to make it a cattle car or luxury. This is closer to the later. But the good thing this is a world of choices and you are free to make your own if this doesn’t work for you. I suspect the majority will like this change.


I reread UA's press release. It does not state seat pitch has increased. It's the same seat pitch for first, economy plus and economy. The overall amount of legroom for the entire plane has increased but that's because there are more first seats than usual. But individual passengers will not get a better seat pitch.

The fuselage width is comfortable for a business jet because those luxury jets are usually configured 1-1 seating. I'm not aware of any commerical CRJ that has a 1-1 seating configuration. You're comparing apples to oranges.

If UA wanted a better experience for their customers and to stay within the scope clause simultaneously... They could have taken an existing 700, installed 50 first class seats and forget about the luggage racks and snack bar. That would have made a lot of customers very happy.


You are wrong about the baggage. Customers hate waiting for carryon bags from the gate checked process. The time it takes to download all of the bags from cargo and place them on a cart. Then cart needs to be pushed or driven to the jetbridge where they are then offloaded and sent my had or conveyor belt to the loading bridge is time consuming. In inclement weather it take longer and if the ramp is closed for lightning forget about your bags until the ramp is open. This creates numerous misconnects. Having the bags on board will help. Hopefully there will be a seating row arrangement for the bag containers. A designated F E+ and E bag bin would help alleviate the dive for for bags. I’m sure this has been planned. But saving time and making connections. Keeping people with their carryons is a great idea. I’m sorry you don’t agree. You can go fly those DL CRJ’s with all that extra room....;-)
 
mcdu
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:29 pm

jetero wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Probably routes like:

HSV-ORD
MLI-ORD
XNA-ORD
CID-ORD
TYS-ORD
ROA-ORD
LEX-ORD
ABE-ORD
FSD-ORD
TVC-ORD
SGF-ORD
CRW-ORD

These are all very high fare routes, and for the most part are somewhere between 1-2 hour flights currently flown mostly on 50 seaters.

Obviously some routes like these are possible as well, since most of these larger routes don't see that much mainline, or still see a decent amount of 50 seaters:
CMH-ORD
STL-ORD
IND-ORD
CVG-ORD



A lot of the above flights are under one hour. Lets see if UAX can maintain an acceptable on-time arrivals percentage. Its much more important for someone flying for business to actually get to where they need to get on-time then to have a self serve bar on a 50 minute flight.


The implication is the self-serve bar is going to affect on-time arrival percentage?

Oh Lawd.


Never underestimate the effects of crack use and a computer.
 
max999
Posts: 1132
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:37 pm

mcdu wrote:
max999 wrote:
mcdu wrote:

You do realize that the seat pitch is going to be greater? Also the CRJ fuselage is the same as the luxury business jet Challenger series. So it depends on what you put in it to make it a cattle car or luxury. This is closer to the later. But the good thing this is a world of choices and you are free to make your own if this doesn’t work for you. I suspect the majority will like this change.


I reread UA's press release. It does not state seat pitch has increased. It's the same seat pitch for first, economy plus and economy. The overall amount of legroom for the entire plane has increased but that's because there are more first seats than usual. But individual passengers will not get a better seat pitch.

The fuselage width is comfortable for a business jet because those luxury jets are usually configured 1-1 seating. I'm not aware of any commerical CRJ that has a 1-1 seating configuration. You're comparing apples to oranges.

If UA wanted a better experience for their customers and to stay within the scope clause simultaneously... They could have taken an existing 700, installed 50 first class seats and forget about the luggage racks and snack bar. That would have made a lot of customers very happy.


You are wrong about the baggage. Customers hate waiting for carryon bags from the gate checked process. The time it takes to download all of the bags from cargo and place them on a cart. Then cart needs to be pushed or driven to the jetbridge where they are then offloaded and sent my had or conveyor belt to the loading bridge is time consuming. In inclement weather it take longer and if the ramp is closed for lightning forget about your bags until the ramp is open. This creates numerous misconnects. Having the bags on board will help. Hopefully there will be a seating row arrangement for the bag containers. A designated F E+ and E bag bin would help alleviate the dive for for bags. I’m sure this has been planned. But saving time and making connections. Keeping people with their carryons is a great idea. I’m sorry you don’t agree. You can go fly those DL CRJ’s with all that extra room....;-)


I've flown the Crj many times and I know how frustrating it can be to be separated from your luggage. That's because the Crj's small fuselage can't fit a normal sized carry on. The luggage racks will help with that problem. But luggage racks are the only comfort improvement in the 550. And I think it's not big enough of an improvement to try to sell it as a new model.

You claimed the 550 has better seat pitch but that's incorrect because UA's press release does not state the seat pitch will change. You also claimed the fuselage width is good enough for the challenge biz jet. But you used a poor comparison between a luxury biz CRJ with 1-1 seating configuration and a commercial CRJ which does not have 1-1. So the 550 is left with the same seat pitch, same narrow fuselage, same low ceilings, and same tiny lavatory. Bombardier keeps trying to market the 550 is a better and new product, but I very much disagree.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
VC10er
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:22 pm

While I’m LOVING this bold move by United to be more premium heavy across the entire network, (especially the super premium 767) I cannot help but wonder (Polaris Lounges excluded) that just because UA will have 46 Polaris seats vs 30, a PE cabin, and larger E+ sections, that fliers will perceive United as more “premium”. Premium business fliers may or may not notice that an aircraft has many more Polaris (eg; First/enhanced Biz) seats than other airlines, we see it as premium heavy, but will the regular premium flier flying see it that way (or like on BA’s 747, I always felt like I was one of a hundred in business- I enjoyed it, but it did feel more democratized, and the FA’s were always frenzied during meal time).
Unless the folks in the huge Polaris section of United feel like the experience is premium too- is there a risk of Polaris feeling too big and not special enough?
(I do think the Polaris Lounges are truly amazing, my first impression was “WOW, this is UNITED!?!) and I do prefer the Polaris seat on the 77W to the last few BA seats I had (have BA changed their business class back/forward seat in the last 8 years?) IMHO, Polaris is much better than the old herringbone Virgin seats...so the Premium Heavy 767 or new 78J can really compete from a hard product standpoint.
I’m just hoping these new premium heavy aircraft doesn’t mean a diluted Polaris, etc. As it is, the UA amity kits keep shrinking, when once upon a time UA had a great amity Kit (not saying people chose an airline because of an amity kit, but they are a good place to look for cost cutting- still wondering how Colgate gets toothpaste in such a tiny, 1 use, 3/4 inch tube!)
In short, I’m just hoping that it’s a benefit to loyal UA fliers, and not “just” more premium seat money for UA. Perhaps a few more seats for saver award travel?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
jetero
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:27 pm

max999 wrote:
I've flown the Crj many times and I know how frustrating it can be to be separated from your luggage.


Separation anxiety is common among certain groups. I'd think, though, that you'd, er, eventually learn how to plan for that after being in that position "many times."

Image

But I think the solution is clear and two-pronged . . . (1) sue Bombardier, United, and GoJet for their blatant marketing fraud; and (2) never step foot on one.
 
max999
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:36 pm

jetero wrote:
max999 wrote:
I've flown the Crj many times and I know how frustrating it can be to be separated from your luggage.


Separation anxiety is common among certain groups. I'd think, though, that you'd, er, eventually learn how to plan for that.

Image

But I think the solution is clear and two-pronged . . . (1) sue Bombardier, United, and GoJet for their blatant marketing fraud; and (2) never step foot on one.


You've lost the debate on facts so you resort to a passive aggressive personal attack. Not mature.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:43 pm

max999 wrote:
jetero wrote:
max999 wrote:
I've flown the Crj many times and I know how frustrating it can be to be separated from your luggage.


Separation anxiety is common among certain groups. I'd think, though, that you'd, er, eventually learn how to plan for that.

Image

But I think the solution is clear and two-pronged . . . (1) sue Bombardier, United, and GoJet for their blatant marketing fraud; and (2) never step foot on one.


You've lost the debate on facts so you resort to a passive aggressive personal attack. Not mature.


Yes, it's right up there with writing umpteen messages about how you irrationally hate something that (I presume) you don't intend to use.
 
max999
Posts: 1132
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:51 pm

jetero wrote:
max999 wrote:
jetero wrote:

Separation anxiety is common among certain groups. I'd think, though, that you'd, er, eventually learn how to plan for that.

Image

But I think the solution is clear and two-pronged . . . (1) sue Bombardier, United, and GoJet for their blatant marketing fraud; and (2) never step foot on one.


You've lost the debate on facts so you resort to a passive aggressive personal attack. Not mature.


Yes, it's right up there with writing umpteen messages about how you irrationally hate something that (I presume) you don't intend to use.


Opinions about aircraft are the norm and are accepted on a.net. I'm doing something normal for the website.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:05 pm

max999 wrote:
jetero wrote:
max999 wrote:

You've lost the debate on facts so you resort to a passive aggressive personal attack. Not mature.


Yes, it's right up there with writing umpteen messages about how you irrationally hate something that (I presume) you don't intend to use.


Opinions about aircraft are the norm and are accepted on a.net. I'm doing something normal for the website.


Great! Then I can have opinions about your opinions. That's called a discussion.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 635
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:16 pm

I misread. I thought that big space between first class and economy was the bar area.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:20 pm

I don't understand the complaints... a CRJ with less seats, first class with a snack station, and wifi. What's not to like?
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1778
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:21 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I misread. I thought that big space between first class and economy was the bar area.

No; the big space between first class and economy is called the "pay gap" :lol:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
jetero
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:22 pm

NYPECO wrote:
I don't understand the complaints... a CRJ with less seats, first class with a snack station, and wifi. What's not to like?


Evidently

(1) small overhead bins means you're separated from your suitcase (wait . . . no . . . that sounds like it may be solved)

(2) the aircraft having a new number

(3) a self-service snack bar inevitably leading to aircraft delays
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4384
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:00 pm

Self service bar I am guessing is no alcohol coke, Sprite, water , juice, maybe cold brew coffee.

I thought legally alcohol has to be given out by FAs in the USA on flights? To prevent you from brining your own, they want to serve you, so they can cut you off. I would guess the normal drink service would be a drink offer just first people can do alcohol as their drink? I don't think it will be an open bar in the sky
 
B737900ER
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:35 pm

jumbojet wrote:
mcdu wrote:
[
You do realize that the seat pitch is going to be greater? e.


Well, when we are talking something that had pretty horrible seat pitch to begin with, that doesnt say much,

You’re going to have to explain this one. So bad to good still equals bad?
 
B737900ER
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:44 pm

NYPECO wrote:
I don't understand the complaints... a CRJ with less seats, first class with a snack station, and wifi. What's not to like?

It says UNITED on the side. They could also add beauty pageant winners who hand feed you grapes while the IFE produced gold bars that you can take home, and people here would still complain about how the gold standard isn’t what it used to be and how the grapes are green and not purple and the pageant winner is miss universe 2016 not 2018, so what a stupid move by United.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:48 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Self service bar I am guessing is no alcohol coke, Sprite, water , juice, maybe cold brew coffee.

I thought legally alcohol has to be given out by FAs in the USA on flights? To prevent you from brining your own, they want to serve you, so they can cut you off. I would guess the normal drink service would be a drink offer just first people can do alcohol as their drink? I don't think it will be an open bar in the sky

That is correct, alcohol has to be served by a FA.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:49 pm

QueenoftheSkies wrote:
Huge failure unless they can fill all those F seats with full fare F passengers......which is doubtful. Upgrades won’t cut it.


EWR-XNA (which I flew for a few months) was routinely $800 r/t. I am sure ORD-XNA is just as expensive. I was also almost never upgraded and 1st must have been mostly sold as 1.5 hours seems like a waste of a RPU...

That is 6x the revenue per mile of EWR-PEK which can also be bought for $800 r/t. I assure you my overpriced coach fare on the routes they are putting this baby on will more than make up for the seat loss.

This isn't a people mover EWR-FLL/MCO. This is a business route flight whose fares are higher and there is competition on those routes.

I applaud United and look forward to flying on these routes and hopefully getting upgraded in exchange for my ~$0.30/mi fare as an over-entitled 1K.
 
glbltrvlr
Posts: 973
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:54 pm

mcdu wrote:
You are wrong about the baggage. Customers hate waiting for carryon bags from the gate checked process. The time it takes to download all of the bags from cargo and place them on a cart. Then cart needs to be pushed or driven to the jetbridge where they are then offloaded and sent my had or conveyor belt to the loading bridge is time consuming. In inclement weather it take longer and if the ramp is closed for lightning forget about your bags until the ramp is open. This creates numerous misconnects. Having the bags on board will help. Hopefully there will be a seating row arrangement for the bag containers. A designated F E+ and E bag bin would help alleviate the dive for for bags. I’m sure this has been planned. But saving time and making connections. Keeping people with their carryons is a great idea. I’m sorry you don’t agree. You can go fly those DL CRJ’s with all that extra room....;-)


The valet/jetway check problem is self inflicted by the airlines. It wasn't that long ago that jetway bags were available within a few minutes. Then the ground crews would unload the rest of the bags. Now it seems that the entire cargo bay is unloaded before the bags are brought up to the jetway. Whether this is because of reductions in ground staff per aircraft or some other reason is beyond me.
 
tjh8402
Posts: 957
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:58 pm

max999 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
max999 wrote:

I reread UA's press release. It does not state seat pitch has increased. It's the same seat pitch for first, economy plus and economy. The overall amount of legroom for the entire plane has increased but that's because there are more first seats than usual. But individual passengers will not get a better seat pitch.

The fuselage width is comfortable for a business jet because those luxury jets are usually configured 1-1 seating. I'm not aware of any commerical CRJ that has a 1-1 seating configuration. You're comparing apples to oranges.

If UA wanted a better experience for their customers and to stay within the scope clause simultaneously... They could have taken an existing 700, installed 50 first class seats and forget about the luggage racks and snack bar. That would have made a lot of customers very happy.


You are wrong about the baggage. Customers hate waiting for carryon bags from the gate checked process. The time it takes to download all of the bags from cargo and place them on a cart. Then cart needs to be pushed or driven to the jetbridge where they are then offloaded and sent my had or conveyor belt to the loading bridge is time consuming. In inclement weather it take longer and if the ramp is closed for lightning forget about your bags until the ramp is open. This creates numerous misconnects. Having the bags on board will help. Hopefully there will be a seating row arrangement for the bag containers. A designated F E+ and E bag bin would help alleviate the dive for for bags. I’m sure this has been planned. But saving time and making connections. Keeping people with their carryons is a great idea. I’m sorry you don’t agree. You can go fly those DL CRJ’s with all that extra room....;-)


I've flown the Crj many times and I know how frustrating it can be to be separated from your luggage. That's because the Crj's small fuselage can't fit a normal sized carry on. The luggage racks will help with that problem. But luggage racks are the only comfort improvement in the 550. And I think it's not big enough of an improvement to try to sell it as a new model.

You claimed the 550 has better seat pitch but that's incorrect because UA's press release does not state the seat pitch will change. You also claimed the fuselage width is good enough for the challenge biz jet. But you used a poor comparison between a luxury biz CRJ with 1-1 seating configuration and a commercial CRJ which does not have 1-1. So the 550 is left with the same seat pitch, same narrow fuselage, same low ceilings, and same tiny lavatory. Bombardier keeps trying to market the 550 is a better and new product, but I very much disagree.


Actually Challengers do feature 1-2 seating if they have a section with the dining table. You’ll find this configuration on a number of bizjets, including ones that have narrower cabins than the Challenger (such as the legacy Gulfstreams as well as the G280).

https://www.jetcraft.com/jetstream/2014 ... 1995-2006/
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 202
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:16 pm

jumbojet wrote:

There is a reason why DL hasnt done this first, they are probably very leery of a program that allows FA's to do less work. As I mentioned above, a 50 minute flight, who really cares about self serve snacks and a self serve bar. This is just another excuse for a lazy flight attendant to sit for 45 minutes and do very little. What airline wants that? You get much better customer service from interacting as opposed to a 'self serve' bar. A self serve bar on a ULH, that should be a must but on a regional jet that is in the air for 45 minutes? Please....Very bad for customer service. I guess UA doesnt put much faith in its FA's on these shorter flights.


So basically you are saying if Delta doesn't do it it's wrong?
 
N649DL
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:41 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Well good news on the Airbus fleet.

Can’t see these choices being very resilient in economic downturns.

But, for once, UA is a first-mover.


The CRJ-550 is interesting (but IMHO, fatally flawed. They must really, really not want to go to mainline pilots to renegotiate scope.)

But as for 319s with 12F, and 320s with 16F -- that's been Delta config for a few years. They claim to be successful selling it instead of giving it away.


Maybe with free DTV the Airbus aircraft will finally get AVOD with these reconfiguration.

The CRJ-550 is a dumb idea. Weight and balance definitely an issue, but it just seems tacky and I don't see UAL pulling it off right.

They want more premium seats? Pull some old and stored 757s out of the desert with 24 loungers in the front. Does this also mean UAL is keeping around more 763s?
 
codc10
Posts: 2540
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Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:44 pm

N649DL wrote:
Weight and balance definitely an issue


It is? Can you elaborate? Weight and balance in the context of aviation isn’t exactly an abstract concept.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1778
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:57 pm

N649DL wrote:
The CRJ-550 is a dumb idea. Weight and balance definitely an issue, but it just seems tacky and I don't see UAL pulling it off right.

They want more premium seats? Pull some old and stored 757s out of the desert with 24 loungers in the front. Does this also mean UAL is keeping around more 763s?

Whilst we are at it, maybe Delta can resurrect some of these... it would certainly get them some headlines.


N649DL wrote:
I don't see UAL pulling it off right.

I strongly suspect you don't see UAL doing anything right.
But thanks for your valued contribution - I enjoy a good laugh. :bigthumbsup:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:07 pm

glbltrvlr wrote:
The valet/jetway check problem is self inflicted by the airlines. It wasn't that long ago that jetway bags were available within a few minutes. Then the ground crews would unload the rest of the bags. Now it seems that the entire cargo bay is unloaded before the bags are brought up to the jetway. Whether this is because of reductions in ground staff per aircraft or some other reason is beyond me.


The problem isn't with the number of staff, you still can only unload the forward bins of a CR7/CR9 so quickly, no matter how many people you throw at it. The problem is the number of bags. As bag fees went up, the number of passengers bringing full size rollers onto their RJ flights increased. Its not uncommon to have 35-40 rollers on any given flight. Before you even start the offload, one has to lower the handrails on the door, wait for a jetway driver (possibly), hook up ground power and begin your walkaround. If its the summer, you have to hook up air as well but when that is done differs by carrier.

I've seen flights with 5-6 strollers and 50 valet bags, I can assure you no matter how that is loaded, its split across all the bins and it'll take at least 5-8 minutes to unload and then another 10 minutes to return because people cluster at the bottom of the jetway.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
mm320cap
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:35 pm

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:12 pm

max999 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
max999 wrote:

I reread UA's press release. It does not state seat pitch has increased. It's the same seat pitch for first, economy plus and economy. The overall amount of legroom for the entire plane has increased but that's because there are more first seats than usual. But individual passengers will not get a better seat pitch.

The fuselage width is comfortable for a business jet because those luxury jets are usually configured 1-1 seating. I'm not aware of any commerical CRJ that has a 1-1 seating configuration. You're comparing apples to oranges.

If UA wanted a better experience for their customers and to stay within the scope clause simultaneously... They could have taken an existing 700, installed 50 first class seats and forget about the luggage racks and snack bar. That would have made a lot of customers very happy.


You are wrong about the baggage. Customers hate waiting for carryon bags from the gate checked process. The time it takes to download all of the bags from cargo and place them on a cart. Then cart needs to be pushed or driven to the jetbridge where they are then offloaded and sent my had or conveyor belt to the loading bridge is time consuming. In inclement weather it take longer and if the ramp is closed for lightning forget about your bags until the ramp is open. This creates numerous misconnects. Having the bags on board will help. Hopefully there will be a seating row arrangement for the bag containers. A designated F E+ and E bag bin would help alleviate the dive for for bags. I’m sure this has been planned. But saving time and making connections. Keeping people with their carryons is a great idea. I’m sorry you don’t agree. You can go fly those DL CRJ’s with all that extra room....;-)


I've flown the Crj many times and I know how frustrating it can be to be separated from your luggage. That's because the Crj's small fuselage can't fit a normal sized carry on. The luggage racks will help with that problem. But luggage racks are the only comfort improvement in the 550. And I think it's not big enough of an improvement to try to sell it as a new model.

You claimed the 550 has better seat pitch but that's incorrect because UA's press release does not state the seat pitch will change. You also claimed the fuselage width is good enough for the challenge biz jet. But you used a poor comparison between a luxury biz CRJ with 1-1 seating configuration and a commercial CRJ which does not have 1-1. So the 550 is left with the same seat pitch, same narrow fuselage, same low ceilings, and same tiny lavatory. Bombardier keeps trying to market the 550 is a better and new product, but I very much disagree.


Well, the seat pitch WILL increase from the CRJ200 it’s replacing by adding first and economy plus. That’s the point. Neither of those increased seat pitch options are available on the current 50 seaters
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 541
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:24 pm

B737900ER wrote:
NYPECO wrote:
I don't understand the complaints... a CRJ with less seats, first class with a snack station, and wifi. What's not to like?

It says UNITED on the side. They could also add beauty pageant winners who hand feed you grapes while the IFE produced gold bars that you can take home, and people here would still complain about how the gold standard isn’t what it used to be and how the grapes are green and not purple and the pageant winner is miss universe 2016 not 2018, so what a stupid move by United.


Honestly. I get the idea that this is a tactical move to take get better position in pilot negos (though admittedly that stuff is way over my head), but for a customer, I can't really see how this is a downgrade at all for passengers.
 
N649DL
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Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:36 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
N649DL wrote:
The CRJ-550 is a dumb idea. Weight and balance definitely an issue, but it just seems tacky and I don't see UAL pulling it off right.

They want more premium seats? Pull some old and stored 757s out of the desert with 24 loungers in the front. Does this also mean UAL is keeping around more 763s?

Whilst we are at it, maybe Delta can resurrect some of these... it would certainly get them some headlines.


N649DL wrote:
I don't see UAL pulling it off right.

I strongly suspect you don't see UAL doing anything right.
But thanks for your valued contribution - I enjoy a good laugh. :bigthumbsup:


Troll. Delta kept their 757s around and don't have this problem. Because I know, UAL is so "hip and cool" for ditching theirs for the 739ER that is so fuel efficient yet flies off runways at ORD every winter a few times.

And how many threads are there of people asking "UGH When is UAL going to catch up to DAL?!?" Other than the 763, this is just one of those acts.
 
airnorth
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:41 pm

I am not understanding all the United and CRJ bashing.
New plane, less density, more space, (there really has to be with less people), only aisle and window seats available, more premium seats available.
The only downside that I see, is these will not be serving my market, I will try one out as soon as I can though!
 
jetero
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:43 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

There is a reason why DL hasnt done this first, they are probably very leery of a program that allows FA's to do less work. As I mentioned above, a 50 minute flight, who really cares about self serve snacks and a self serve bar. This is just another excuse for a lazy flight attendant to sit for 45 minutes and do very little. What airline wants that? You get much better customer service from interacting as opposed to a 'self serve' bar. A self serve bar on a ULH, that should be a must but on a regional jet that is in the air for 45 minutes? Please....Very bad for customer service. I guess UA doesnt put much faith in its FA's on these shorter flights.


So basically you are saying if Delta doesn't do it it's wrong?


WHAT?! Delta has lazy flight attendants?! I’m SHOCKED!
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:35 pm

N649DL wrote:
The CRJ-550 is a dumb idea. Weight and balance definitely an issue, but it just seems tacky and I don't see UAL pulling it off right.

They want more premium seats? Pull some old and stored 757s out of the desert with 24 loungers in the front. Does this also mean UAL is keeping around more 763s?

N649DL wrote:
I don't see UAL pulling it off right.

I strongly suspect you don't see UAL doing anything right.

N649DL wrote:
Troll. Delta kept their 757s around and don't have this problem.
Because I know, UAL is so "hip and cool" for ditching theirs for the 739ER that is so fuel efficient yet flies off runways at ORD every winter a few times.

And how many threads are there of people asking "UGH When is UAL going to catch up to DAL?!?" Other than the 763, this is just one of those acts.

So that's a "yes" then.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
N649DL
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Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:04 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Image

Hmmm...Where’s the lav on this plane? I only see closets and a galley.


Seriously. And also, anyone remember AA's attempt at DAL with the F100s in this low density nearly all business class type set up. It didn't work. Similar economics, similar missions and even similar economy. Quite possibly one of the more nonsensical things UAL has done lately.
 
VC10er
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:52 am

??? What is the big deal all of a sudden? Let them try it. History is replete with trials and errors. This “seems” like it could be a great thing- I hope the interiors look fresh, modern and consistent. I’m certain they know the potential upside and potential downside and felt this was worth it.
Nit picking every detail is absurd, until we see it in action and when some of us fly it.
The ONLY thing that is 100% for sure, is even if it’s fantastic and UA makes money: United haters will put it down anyway they can. To them the airline had no permission to improve.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
GoSharks
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:17 am

sldispatcher wrote:
I’m pretty sure it’s safe to ignore any comments who assume that there will be no FA service in first just because they mentioned a self serve bar. The first class FA leaves the front and heads to the back after initial service on every 76 seat regional flight I’ve been on.

We’ll see a year from now who is right and who is wrong.

I have flown 100k miles on UAX E175s and have never seen what you describe. The F FA stays in F.
 
jetero
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:22 am

GoSharks wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
I’m pretty sure it’s safe to ignore any comments who assume that there will be no FA service in first just because they mentioned a self serve bar. The first class FA leaves the front and heads to the back after initial service on every 76 seat regional flight I’ve been on.

We’ll see a year from now who is right and who is wrong.

I have flown 100k miles on UAX E175s and have never seen what you describe. The F FA stays in F.


They're kind of required to by federal law to protect the cockpit, aren't they?
 
jetero
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Re: United orders 50 CRJ-550s, announces increased premium seating

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:22 am

N649DL wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Image

Hmmm...Where’s the lav on this plane? I only see closets and a galley.


Seriously. And also, anyone remember AA's attempt at DAL with the F100s in this low density nearly all business class type set up. It didn't work. Similar economics, similar missions and even similar economy. Quite possibly one of the more nonsensical things UAL has done lately.


Well you must be having a field day then with this sure-to-fail project.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:25 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I love how if this was Delta configuring their aircraft like this everyone would love it but since it's UA everyone has to bash it. I'm pretty sure UA management has some clue what their doing.


There is a reason why DL hasnt done this first, they are probably very leery of a program that allows FA's to do less work. As I mentioned above, a 50 minute flight, who really cares about self serve snacks and a self serve bar. This is just another excuse for a lazy flight attendant to sit for 45 minutes and do very little. What airline wants that? You get much better customer service from interacting as opposed to a 'self serve' bar. A self serve bar on a ULH, that should be a must but on a regional jet that is in the air for 45 minutes? Please....Very bad for customer service. I guess UA doesnt put much faith in its FA's on these shorter flights.


Do you keep a list of your Delta troll posts pre—created or do you make them up on the fly?


UA has done some brilliant things as of late, some not. Remember the martini car in Polaris? How long did that last? There were a bunch of other not so great ideas in Polaris that got cut very quickly. The selve serve snack station is just a very bad idea. Nothing screams more anti customer service on a short flight than that. There's a reason Delta has not done something like that, its 100% anti customer friendly. LIke ir or not, its true.
 
jetero
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:28 am

jumbojet wrote:
UA has done some brilliant things as of late, some not. Remember the martini bar in Polaris? How long did that last?


Well by implication you must really be looking forward to this bar disappearing post-haste.

jumbojet wrote:
The selve serve snack station is just a very bad idea. Nothing screams more anti customer service on a short flight than that. There's a reason Delta has not done something like that, its 100% anti customer friendly. LIke ir or not, its true.


It seems to me like what is customer friendly should be determined by the customer.

And I'll be the first to admit the obvious--some may like it and some may not like it.

(Everyone take notice of JJ's vote!)
 
mcdu
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:37 am

jumbojet wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

There is a reason why DL hasnt done this first, they are probably very leery of a program that allows FA's to do less work. As I mentioned above, a 50 minute flight, who really cares about self serve snacks and a self serve bar. This is just another excuse for a lazy flight attendant to sit for 45 minutes and do very little. What airline wants that? You get much better customer service from interacting as opposed to a 'self serve' bar. A self serve bar on a ULH, that should be a must but on a regional jet that is in the air for 45 minutes? Please....Very bad for customer service. I guess UA doesnt put much faith in its FA's on these shorter flights.


Do you keep a list of your Delta troll posts pre—created or do you make them up on the fly?


UA has done some brilliant things as of late, some not. Remember the martini car in Polaris? How long did that last? There were a bunch of other not so great ideas in Polaris that got cut very quickly. The selve serve snack station is just a very bad idea. Nothing screams more anti customer service on a short flight than that. There's a reason Delta has not done something like that, its 100% anti customer friendly. LIke ir or not, its true.



What’s the big deal? You obviously aren’t going to be affected by this plan. So why all the drama? As for the self serve snacks, it’s done internationally all the time. Heck it’s even done in the gate area on long delays. So you want another award winning strop waffle that is not served on DL, help yourself. See now that’s really easy.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:01 am

jumbojet wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

There is a reason why DL hasnt done this first, they are probably very leery of a program that allows FA's to do less work. As I mentioned above, a 50 minute flight, who really cares about self serve snacks and a self serve bar. This is just another excuse for a lazy flight attendant to sit for 45 minutes and do very little. What airline wants that? You get much better customer service from interacting as opposed to a 'self serve' bar. A self serve bar on a ULH, that should be a must but on a regional jet that is in the air for 45 minutes? Please....Very bad for customer service. I guess UA doesnt put much faith in its FA's on these shorter flights.


Do you keep a list of your Delta troll posts pre—created or do you make them up on the fly?


UA has done some brilliant things as of late, some not. Remember the martini car in Polaris? How long did that last? There were a bunch of other not so great ideas in Polaris that got cut very quickly. The selve serve snack station is just a very bad idea. Nothing screams more anti customer service on a short flight than that. There's a reason Delta has not done something like that, its 100% anti customer friendly. LIke ir or not, its true.


So they should remove the snack station and this will somehow make the flight more customer friendly?
 
sldispatcher
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:31 am

GoSharks wrote:
sldispatcher wrote:
I’m pretty sure it’s safe to ignore any comments who assume that there will be no FA service in first just because they mentioned a self serve bar. The first class FA leaves the front and heads to the back after initial service on every 76 seat regional flight I’ve been on.

We’ll see a year from now who is right and who is wrong.

I have flown 100k miles on UAX E175s and have never seen what you describe. The F FA stays in F.


Talk to the FA on my HSV - IAH flight attendant this past Tuesday night. The Gojet first FA between ORD and DAY or between ORD and TVC. Better yet, can point you to a mesa CRJ700 FA who helps his counterpart routinely.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:10 pm

I found this really interesting. As a person that worked with and partnered with both mainline and regional companies over the years, it's certainly a different dynamic that we've seen from United in years previous. The last real innovation I feel United did was offering PS on transcon, and now I feel like they've been left behind on that one by their competitors. I'm glad to see them thinking outside the box, but it looks as though this is to adjust the aircraft currently in their fleet. While some are touting this as out of the box thinking (and it is to some degree in terms of the CRJ550) other aspects are similar to other carriers.

intotheair wrote:
This is a strange one. CNBC and a handful of other outlets are reporting that UA is announcing this Wednesday. I can't find anything on UA's site yet.

    United is ordering 50 CRJ-550s, which are CRJ-700s configured with 50 seats, including 10 F seats and a bar/snack area
    All A320s will go from 12 F seats to 16
    All A319s will go from 8 F seats to 12
    21 767-300s will receive a premium configuration with 46 Polaris seats

This CRJ-550 should be interesting. UA says it's targeting it for routes under 900 miles like ORD-XNA, where premium demand is higher than in other places.


While this thread seems to be focused on the small cabin CRJ550, no one has really focused on the A320/319 or 767 forward cabin increase. The Airbus F cabin increase is an interesting point to me as United feels to me at least that everyone has "status" at United. The last time I flew United, a last minute trip LGA-ORD in F, I was kind of surprised to see a list of about 100+ all waiting for an upgrade. More than half the plane. However, I bought the ticket a few days before, which made no sense to me.

A number of people in this thread commented something to the like of "Good, I can never get an upgrade, now I can!" United is NOT doing this so they can offer free upgrades to loyal flyers. They are doing it because they feel that they can actually fill the seats with paying customers. United is one of the most shrewd in terms of operating with open seats. They have a great system of managing their oversales, often overselling their flights but managing to go out with just the right amount to not have to give out many DBCs often (it does happen but not in the amount you would assume when looking at their oversale bookings). That being said, if they feel they can rip out 6-12, Y cabin seats, to offer an additional 4 F cabin seats, it means they feel they can justify the demand.

In terms of DL vs UA vs AA, on the airbus, this is a welcome change unless UA is planning on just pushing the Y seats closer together as they did when they created the Y+ cabin. The biggest issue for me as a flyer is power ports, if you're gonna be on a CRJ or an Airbus, if it's more than an hour flight I need to be productive and I need to have all my stuff ready to go when I land so I can literally hit the ground running and with all my electronic dodads fully charged While there are people that want to use the Wifi/Inflight Use your own device, it's a great idea, but if you don't offer power ports, then it's a moot idea. That was my last experience with both UA and AA on the airbus (and almost every CRJ operator), no power, and I've avoided them since. IF UA wants to cater to biz pax, and it sounds like they do, then power ports are a must, regardless of aircraft type. VFR once a year flyers (and some biz pax too) love IFE at your seat. They feel like they are flying on a bigger better new airplane, and the tv in seat makes them feel like they paid for something other than transport A-B. It's a mental perception, and in terms of Delta, investing in the customer certainly seems to have paid off for them. If they continue to want to BYD operation, power ports are a must.

In terms of scope, aircraft deliveries and crew.
My understanding that two things are pushing this cabin design forward:
-The first was that a number of the CRJ aircraft are coming up on their life cycles. Because of the short segment the CRJ aircraft operate, it puts more cycles on the aircraft thus cutting the lifespan short after being pressurized so many times. Some of those aircraft are likely 20 years old if not older, the newest likely being from 2005/2006 (someone probably knows details this better than I) which is already pushing 15 years.
-The second, Scope. From my understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong, no harm) Expressjet is getting newer E175s with a reduced cabin size, thus United being at scope limits it had to reduce either it's aircraft inventory, or reduce cabin occupancy (which is interesting as I thought scope was limited based on aircraft weight, too). If you look you'll see the connection. E175s with baggage stowage on board, CR7 with baggage stowage on board.
That being said, should negotations with ALPA go the way they want, or fuel becomes to much they can junk the old CR7s (which are all GECAS birds from 2005/2006 if memory serves) or add the seats back if they can and bring the CASM back into line with other aircraft of the same type.

In terms of routes...
Someone posted sample routes from ORD and everyone seems to think that these will only be out of ORD. While GoJet operates mainly from ORD and DEN, my guess is that it will be operating out of all of their hubs on high yield routes, IAD and EWR included. Perhaps they'll test it from ORD and move from there? There are plenty of smaller cities that warrant F class but cannot sustain larger aircraft, so this aircraft would be a win for those cities. Also there are markets like ORD-RIC where they have the F class market but don't seem to be able to sustain mainline equipment, so this would be a no brainer.

In terms of offering...
There is no mention of increase in seat pitch in the forward or aft, so I can only assume there is not one, otherwise United would have pounced on that for marketing like a fat kid on cake. I'm concerned with how the baggage stowage will be offloaded upon arrival. Will all economy pax wait till all the F pax have gotten their bag, or will all F pax have to wait for all the 40 people in the back to get off first before they can have access to their bag? it's gonna be a mess either way. A self service snack bar serving the same shelf stable garbage the FA gives out isn't much of an offering, especially on a 45-90 min flight.

Time will tell about the 50 seat CR7 but I'm hopeful. As for the Airbus and 767 increase, it's meeting customer demand, if it's needed then they'll do great with it.

glbltrvlr wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I didn't know there was any other requirement than one flight attendant for every 50 sets. Just make a recorded announcement with appropriate pauses for the flight attendant to walk down the aisle and demonstrate.


Exactly. A second FA on a 50 seater would kill the economics even more. FAA requirement is one FA per 50 seats and being able to show an evac time under 90 seconds. Evac time has never been a problem.


From my understanding, since they are refurbishing the aircraft which is certified at 2 cabin crew it will remain with 2 crew. Thus, unless they want to go through the recertification process, it will remain at 2 crew. Also, Gojet cabin crew start around $16-18 an hour, so I don't think that's going to break the bank.

enilria wrote:
intotheair wrote:
EDIT: the CRJ-550s will be conversions of United's existing CRJ-700s and will not be new build frames.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ual- ... SKCN1PV0BF

It's better that these CRJ-550s are conversions because these planes will be financial pigs if fuel goes up to high levels again. They will be challenged even with mid-price oil. I understand the scope reasons, but i still question the choice.

Also, a seating configuration change is not a new aircraft designation!!!


This is how I see it as well. The nice part is IF they can justify keeping those older aircraft, they can always put back the 70 seat interior. Otherwise, they can send the aircraft back to GECAS and keep the new E175s which have overhead baggage stowage onboard.

Also, I don't see the seating config a reason to redesignate the aircraft type. It's still a CR7 frame. If you change the layout of the 767 inside it is still listed as a 767 in the GDS. Boeing certainly isn't renaming this the new United heavy J config the 767-500.

fun2fly wrote:
I like it. For example, if you are in DAY (example) and you have to go to NRT in business. You could hop on a DL flight with F or UA with an ERJ to your international gateway currently. In the future, you would have F offered for the entire trip and that's one more reason to shop UA.

With that being said, I'd love to see the numbers behind it...or just a negotiation tactic that may not happen if relief is given.


It's just my opinion, but there is nothing F about United domestic F on a regional aircraft with no power outlets. The same FA service and a self service snack bar offering the same snack options on a 45-90 minute flight does nothing for most, and won't sway people to choose United over another carrier, even when making a connection to F on an international long haul. There is no increase in seat pitch or of amenity offering.

jetero wrote:
The one aircraft that people are surprisingly not mentioning was the CRJ-440, which operated with 9E (I think) and OH.


This was my first thought when reading about this. I flew on the Comair (OH) CRJ with 40 seats. I was expecting more leg room, nope, just a closet instead.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
If I recall well the CRJ 700 was only marginally more expensive to operate than a CRJ 200 (like 10% more).

I'm convinced UA did its calculation and figured it would extract more profit overall in converting those 50 CRJ 700 into 50 seaters. (I'm sure many "business intensive" thin routes exits that would be profitably better served via a CRJ 550) 

Furthermore, those "new" 550 will free up many precious 76 seaters for better use. (UA being obviously scoped out in 76 seaters).


Exactly. This wasn't a "let's throw something together at the last minute because we forgot to do our homework..." this had to be carefully researched before it was even proposed to upper management. Again, this can be due to scope, but also there is the connection of older leased aircraft, and newer aircraft with onboard stowage coming online that customers prefer.

jetero wrote:

Learn something new every day.

Did they have (obviously moderately) increased legroom or was the aft bulkhead just moved forward?


Nope no increase in legroom, just added a closet. :scratchchin:

VC10er wrote:
The actual seat design has not been revealed yet, has it? Will they be the same F seat as on current CRJ’s or the new F seat as seen on the Airbuses?


My understanding is that it's the same CR7 F seat, the Airbus seat is too wide to fit the cabin, even in a 1x2 layout.

UALFAson wrote:
jetero wrote:
A) some people don’t have much of a choice

B) you’re obviously a *very special* outlier, to say the least


Comment of the day! (And much nicer than I would have put it.)


Same! Much nicer than I would have been.

airnorth wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
People despise flying 4 across Bombardiers for anything more than the shortest 1 hour flights.

I routinely fly them on stages over two hours on AC, very comfy, though overhead bin is small.


Oh! So, you're the one!

VC10er wrote:
While I’m LOVING this bold move by United to be more premium heavy across the entire network, (especially the super premium 767) I cannot help but wonder (Polaris Lounges excluded) that just because UA will have 46 Polaris seats vs 30, a PE cabin, and larger E+ sections, that fliers will perceive United as more “premium”. Premium business fliers may or may not notice that an aircraft has many more Polaris (eg; First/enhanced Biz) seats than other airlines, we see it as premium heavy, but will the regular premium flier flying see it that way (or like on BA’s 747, I always felt like I was one of a hundred in business- I enjoyed it, but it did feel more democratized, and the FA’s were always frenzied during meal time)...


This is something I have stated on numerous in regards to traveling at the pointy end. Having done +100 segments in F/J, there is a point where when the forward cabin is large it does not feel special and lacks the "premium" feel. A classic example of this is when I flew AA on ORD-JFK on a 777 once in J and everything was so rushed, I couldn't even get a second drink on a 1:40 flight afer asking twice, because everyone else needed something. We've already seen announcements by United stating they are reducing the staffing on flights, so if you're increasing the J seat count on the 767 hopefully they will learn and add additional staffing.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:42 pm

I know these will replace 50 seaters and UA does fly 50 seaters on some long segments. They need to get a revenue premium to pay for the higher trip costs of a 50 versus this. It will be tough to do. They have to get a revenue shift from other airlines. That is not likely. It’s begs the question if they have very high yielding 50 seater markets that are profitable, why are they using 50 seaters on them now? Will the yields be even higher with this plane? Do they have more high yield markets than planes allowed under SCOPE?
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:01 pm

airnorth wrote:
I am not understanding all the United and CRJ bashing.
New plane, less density, more space, (there really has to be with less people), only aisle and window seats available, more premium seats available.
The only downside that I see, is these will not be serving my market, I will try one out as soon as I can though!

From a customer's point of view, I think there is everything to like with less density and more space (planes won't be new, those are existing CRJ700's being "converted" to CRJ550's).

But, honestly, from an economic point of view, I fail to see it work.
I know there are more premium seats available; but I'm not sure those will be filled with full fare paying customers, rather with upgrades. So, the actual revenue is at risk of being much lower than the potential revenue

I agree, let's see if UAL can make it work. If they can (and I hope so), I'm sure others will try to play the same card; for the benefit of all of us.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1226
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:04 pm

mcdu wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

Do you keep a list of your Delta troll posts pre—created or do you make them up on the fly?


UA has done some brilliant things as of late, some not. Remember the martini car in Polaris? How long did that last? There were a bunch of other not so great ideas in Polaris that got cut very quickly. The selve serve snack station is just a very bad idea. Nothing screams more anti customer service on a short flight than that. There's a reason Delta has not done something like that, its 100% anti customer friendly. LIke ir or not, its true.



What’s the big deal? You obviously aren’t going to be affected by this plan. So why all the drama? As for the self serve snacks, it’s done internationally all the time. Heck it’s even done in the gate area on long delays. So you want another award winning strop waffle that is not served on DL, help yourself. See now that’s really easy.

Self-serve snacks on international flights (i.e. long flights) does not have the same customer impact than on short flights.
On long flights, it says "go ahead, grab a snack when you feel hungry. We know everyone won't feel that way at the same time, we don't want you to miss the service or wake you up".
On short flights, it says "go ahead, we don't have time to serve you a snack".
 
United1
Posts: 3870
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Reuters: United to add premium seats on regional and mainline jets

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:17 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Self-serve snacks on international flights (i.e. long flights) does not have the same customer impact than on short flights.
On long flights, it says "go ahead, grab a snack when you feel hungry. We know everyone won't feel that way at the same time, we don't want you to miss the service or wake you up".
On short flights, it says "go ahead, we don't have time to serve you a snack".


No one ever said the F/As won't be doing a snack or beverage service onboard...I'm sure they will be actually. My read on the self service snack bar is there will be times when the F/A is serving passengers in Y and UA wants to make sure that F passengers don't have to wait.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!

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