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dampfnudel
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:54 am

BWIAirport wrote:
Not to open another can of worms but do the widebody-capable gates in the T6 expansion hint at future B6 fleet plans?


There’s probably some regret at B6 over the shortsighted decision to omit widebody-capable gates when they planned T5. They don’t want to shortchange any potential future growth/business opportunities with other partners.
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LAX772LR
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:57 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Anyone else spot the BA 777-9 in the photo? Hint, hint ...

No. Where do you see that?

Looks like poorly-reedited 77Ws.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:31 am

dampfnudel wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Not to open another can of worms but do the widebody-capable gates in the T6 expansion hint at future B6 fleet plans?


There’s probably some regret at B6 over the shortsighted decision to omit widebody-capable gates when they planned T5. They don’t want to shortchange any potential future growth/business opportunities with other partners.

Actually now that I look at it, there are some dashed lead-in lines at present-day T5 that seem to at least plan for widebody use. Gates 9, 11, and 14 it appears can be used by widebodies, although such use eliminates the use of gates 8-14. There's also a convertible widebody gate at the far west end, gate 30, which seems to be used by Hawaiian. Maybe they did have fleet plans for larger aircraft at some point, but this expansion came before those came to fruition.
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Bradin
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:47 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Bradin wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:

This specific project is not being paid for by the Port Authority. Some articles said it will be AA paying for this. So obviously they will only fix their property. The overall revamp announced a few months back will address your concerns


Tax payer dollars, Port Authority dollars, or Airline dollars is all the same to me at this present time because individually their dollars may not make that great of an impact, but collectively they could do much, much more.

The overall revamp announced in the previously - while a step forward - was also a step backwards for me because it is still "lipstick on a pig" for me; it fixes some short term issues, but it does not address much of the long term issues.

In my opinion, Terminal 8 is largely part of the problem at JFK with its strange position taxiways weaving in and out between the Jetblue Hangar, cell phone lots, taxi hold areas, and cargo ramps.


As a pilot that taxis at JFK daily, there are many problems with the layout...the loop around T8 is not one of them.

Matter of fact, that loop was added in the 90s for Central Terminal Area expansion


Totally respect that perspective and I agree it functions well in contrast to other parts of JFK. From a macro, long term growth, operational perspective, it will continue to works - but just because something works doesn't mean it's working well especially when one increases the strain on the infrastructure with more flights.

From my perspective, with T8 and the surrounding taxiways not sitting perpendicular to the 13/31s, is creating a lot of unnecessary inefficiencies and congestion. While it flows for the moment, start adding more aircraft, and those inefficiencies will really start showing.
Last edited by Bradin on Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
global2
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:47 am

global2 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
https://www.globest.com/2019/02/06/with-british-airways-move-terminal-8-project-at-jfk-airport-now-totals-344m/?slreturn=20190106110159

BA will move to T8.

The American Airlines and British Airways investment in Terminal 8 will improve the overall customer experience, with a total of 70,400 square feet of additional space including 33,000 square feet of public space. Another 57,500 square feet of existing space will be refurbished. New amenities include premium lounges for both airlines, enhanced baggage systems, premium check-in space and upgraded concessions.

...doesn't look like much expansion, just building out the existing footprint really. Five new gates and 4 hardstands.


Thanks for posting that. Yes, it's disappointing to see not much of an expansion really. I wonder what they can do to "enhance" the baggage system. For such a relatively new terminal, I've found the waits for bags to be about the longest of any modern terminal I've ever landed at.


The more I look at the rendering, it looks like the only "expansion" are the structures that the jetways connect to, but nothing really in terms of expanding the actual terminal space. Is there sufficient square footage in the existing space for BA to add its lounges?
 
Cointrin330
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:03 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Just to clarify, there is almost no expansion of terminal 8. It will not be built out as originally envisioned. 70,000 sq feet is a store at your local mall.

American has shrunk so much that most of British will fit right in there as is.

Furthermore the regional gate operation is going away which tells you all you need to know about the regional operation future at JFK.

All in all, a sad day for the end of the British Airways standalone operation and a sad statement about the future of AA in NYC.

BA Really got screwed by having a US partner shrink so much in New York.

Just a decade ago American and British were so dominant in New York to London the thought of anybody even competing against them would’ve been laughable.

A300 retirements, 767 retirements, 757 retirements all took a toll on the JFK hub. Old RJs flying odd ball routes from an empty terminal is what is left today. Coupled with a drastically reduced Euro footprint and BAs ancient 747s, they let the competition walk right in.


What competition are you referring to exactly? 5 x daily on equally ancient UA 763s and well worn 764s at EWR and DL/VS, which is a mix of DL A332s, VS A333s/A346s and one 787?
 
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flyPIT
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:05 am

Bradin wrote:
From my perspective, with T8 and the surrounding taxiways not sitting perpendicular to the 13/31s, is creating a lot of unnecessary inefficiencies and congestion. While it flows for the moment, start adding more aircraft, and those inefficiencies will really start showing.

On that note I was shocked the PANYNJ allowed JetBlue to place its hangar where it is. If it was not there the taxiways around T8 could have been straightened out toward 13L. This would have necessitated new taxiway bridges over the JFK Expressway - but the existing bridges were completely reconstructed anyway to accommodate the load bearing of A380's and B748s, so I don't see much cost difference in simply building new bridges. The benefit to this would have been the ability to extend the T8 satellite concourse to the northeast much more than what was subsequently planned.

There is plenty of room in the western portion of JFK to put JetBlue's hangar with all the others.
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spacecadet
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:18 am

Kno wrote:
Good riddance T7 is a sorry excuse for a terminal maybe the worst in the states and it is shameful to send folks out of that dump on a long haul journey.


From a passenger perspective, T7 is fine - in fact, it's much better than many terminals in this country. It's about 5 minutes from curb to gate and there's retail and food in easy walking distance of any gate. Either of those things individually, much less both together, are more than you can say for probably 50% of all terminals in the United States. It was also just recently upgraded and renovated: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/in ... fk-changes

T7's problems are all on the other side - the airlines and airport. It doesn't have enough gates and more can't really be added. As mentioned above, several of its gates push back into active taxiways. Its customs area is too small for multiple simultaneous international arrivals, and can't really be expanded. None of these are things that passengers should notice or care about; they're more issues with capacity that restrict movement and growth.

I think it's pretty likely that the new T8 will be a worse overall experience for most of those who would have previously used T7 - it's a good bet that it will take longer to get through security (because it's a bigger terminal with more passengers), it will take longer to walk to any given gate, and it's a unknown at this point whether all the new gates will have retail or food options in easy walking distance. The first two points there are already pretty much known; only the third remains to be seen.

That said, it'll be better for BA from a business and logistical perspective. It's also more likely to be better for F and J class passengers than it will be for Y class (though I didn't think there was anything wrong with BA's lounge in T7).
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sargester
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:32 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Just to clarify, there is almost no expansion of terminal 8. It will not be built out as originally envisioned. 70,000 sq feet is a store at your local mall.

American has shrunk so much that most of British will fit right in there as is.

Furthermore the regional gate operation is going away which tells you all you need to know about the regional operation future at JFK.

All in all, a sad day for the end of the British Airways standalone operation and a sad statement about the future of AA in NYC.

BA Really got screwed by having a US partner shrink so much in New York.

Just a decade ago American and British were so dominant in New York to London the thought of anybody even competing against them would’ve been laughable.

A300 retirements, 767 retirements, 757 retirements all took a toll on the JFK hub. Old RJs flying odd ball routes from an empty terminal is what is left today. Coupled with a drastically reduced Euro footprint and BAs ancient 747s, they let the competition walk right in.


Lord, AA does one good thing and you find a way to drop an anvil on it, get over yourself
 
flyinghippo
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:38 am

If I remember correctly, the new T1 will connect to the current T4 - so I think AF and KE will remain in T1 as they're part owners of T1, and people can walk over to T4 to DL for connections if necessary.
 
flyinghippo
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:42 am

If I remember correctly, the new T1 will connect to the current T4 - so I think AF and KE will remain in T1 as they're part owners of T1, and people can walk over to T4 to DL for connections if necessary.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:46 am

flyinghippo wrote:
If I remember correctly, the new T1 will connect to the current T4 - so I think AF and KE will remain in T1 as they're part owners of T1, and people can walk over to T4 to DL for connections if necessary.


That is fantastic news if true. The only problem is, it will be decades before anyone will be able to take advantage of that.
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sonicruiser
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:54 am

spacecadet wrote:
Kno wrote:
Good riddance T7 is a sorry excuse for a terminal maybe the worst in the states and it is shameful to send folks out of that dump on a long haul journey.


From a passenger perspective, T7 is fine - in fact, it's much better than many terminals in this country. It's about 5 minutes from curb to gate and there's retail and food in easy walking distance of any gate. Either of those things individually, much less both together, are more than you can say for probably 50% of all terminals in the United States. It was also just recently upgraded and renovated: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/in ... fk-changes

T7's problems are all on the other side - the airlines and airport. It doesn't have enough gates and more can't really be added. As mentioned above, several of its gates push back into active taxiways. Its customs area is too small for multiple simultaneous international arrivals, and can't really be expanded. None of these are things that passengers should notice or care about; they're more issues with capacity that restrict movement and growth.

I think it's pretty likely that the new T8 will be a worse overall experience for most of those who would have previously used T7 - it's a good bet that it will take longer to get through security (because it's a bigger terminal with more passengers), it will take longer to walk to any given gate, and it's a unknown at this point whether all the new gates will have retail or food options in easy walking distance. The first two points there are already pretty much known; only the third remains to be seen.

That said, it'll be better for BA from a business and logistical perspective. It's also more likely to be better for F and J class passengers than it will be for Y class (though I didn't think there was anything wrong with BA's lounge in T7).


You can't seriously be claiming T7 is the best terminal out there. It is just slightly better than a dumpster fire, T8 while not the best is far better than T7 will ever be. You would think BA would've done better for its passengers, flying the prestigious LHR-JFK only to dump them into T7 which looks like something you would expect in a third world country, not in the capital of the world.

flyPIT wrote:
Bradin wrote:
From my perspective, with T8 and the surrounding taxiways not sitting perpendicular to the 13/31s, is creating a lot of unnecessary inefficiencies and congestion. While it flows for the moment, start adding more aircraft, and those inefficiencies will really start showing.

On that note I was shocked the PANYNJ allowed JetBlue to place its hangar where it is. If it was not there the taxiways around T8 could have been straightened out toward 13L. This would have necessitated new taxiway bridges over the JFK Expressway - but the existing bridges were completely reconstructed anyway to accommodate the load bearing of A380's and B748s, so I don't see much cost difference in simply building new bridges. The benefit to this would have been the ability to extend the T8 satellite concourse to the northeast much more than what was subsequently planned.

There is plenty of room in the western portion of JFK to put JetBlue's hangar with all the others.


Well your first mistake was trying to make sense of anything the PANYNJ does.
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questions
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:16 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Just to clarify, there is almost no expansion of terminal 8. It will not be built out as originally envisioned. 70,000 sq feet is a store at your local mall.

American has shrunk so much that most of British will fit right in there as is.

Furthermore the regional gate operation is going away which tells you all you need to know about the regional operation future at JFK.

All in all, a sad day for the end of the British Airways standalone operation and a sad statement about the future of AA in NYC.

BA Really got screwed by having a US partner shrink so much in New York.

Just a decade ago American and British were so dominant in New York to London the thought of anybody even competing against them would’ve been laughable.

A300 retirements, 767 retirements, 757 retirements all took a toll on the JFK hub. Old RJs flying odd ball routes from an empty terminal is what is left today. Coupled with a drastically reduced Euro footprint and BAs ancient 747s, they let the competition walk right in.


T8 needs to built out as originally planned.

Delta, SkyTeam members and VS need to move out of that crap T4 which is not conducive to connecting traffic and move to T8. AA, BA and their partners then move into T4.

Demolish T2 and rebuild/expand T1.
 
stlgph
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:39 am

sonicruiser wrote:
spacecadet wrote:
Kno wrote:
Good riddance T7 is a sorry excuse for a terminal maybe the worst in the states and it is shameful to send folks out of that dump on a long haul journey.


From a passenger perspective, T7 is fine - in fact, it's much better than many terminals in this country. It's about 5 minutes from curb to gate and there's retail and food in easy walking distance of any gate. Either of those things individually, much less both together, are more than you can say for probably 50% of all terminals in the United States. It was also just recently upgraded and renovated: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/in ... fk-changes

T7's problems are all on the other side - the airlines and airport. It doesn't have enough gates and more can't really be added. As mentioned above, several of its gates push back into active taxiways. Its customs area is too small for multiple simultaneous international arrivals, and can't really be expanded. None of these are things that passengers should notice or care about; they're more issues with capacity that restrict movement and growth.

I think it's pretty likely that the new T8 will be a worse overall experience for most of those who would have previously used T7 - it's a good bet that it will take longer to get through security (because it's a bigger terminal with more passengers), it will take longer to walk to any given gate, and it's a unknown at this point whether all the new gates will have retail or food options in easy walking distance. The first two points there are already pretty much known; only the third remains to be seen.

That said, it'll be better for BA from a business and logistical perspective. It's also more likely to be better for F and J class passengers than it will be for Y class (though I didn't think there was anything wrong with BA's lounge in T7).


You can't seriously be claiming T7 is the best terminal out there. It is just slightly better than a dumpster fire, T8 while not the best is far better than T7 will ever be. You would think BA would've done better for its passengers, flying the prestigious LHR-JFK only to dump them into T7 which looks like something you would expect in a third world country, not in the capital of the world.

flyPIT wrote:
Bradin wrote:
From my perspective, with T8 and the surrounding taxiways not sitting perpendicular to the 13/31s, is creating a lot of unnecessary inefficiencies and congestion. While it flows for the moment, start adding more aircraft, and those inefficiencies will really start showing.

On that note I was shocked the PANYNJ allowed JetBlue to place its hangar where it is. If it was not there the taxiways around T8 could have been straightened out toward 13L. This would have necessitated new taxiway bridges over the JFK Expressway - but the existing bridges were completely reconstructed anyway to accommodate the load bearing of A380's and B748s, so I don't see much cost difference in simply building new bridges. The benefit to this would have been the ability to extend the T8 satellite concourse to the northeast much more than what was subsequently planned.

There is plenty of room in the western portion of JFK to put JetBlue's hangar with all the others.


Well your first mistake was trying to make sense of anything the PANYNJ does.


Hilarious how all of you are so upset that Terminal 7 isn't some magical place where fairies wipe you off in the bathroom and unicorns power the luggage carts.

Terminal 7 is fine. Welcome to New York.
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jfklganyc
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:43 am

sargester wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Just to clarify, there is almost no expansion of terminal 8. It will not be built out as originally envisioned. 70,000 sq feet is a store at your local mall.

American has shrunk so much that most of British will fit right in there as is.

Furthermore the regional gate operation is going away which tells you all you need to know about the regional operation future at JFK.

All in all, a sad day for the end of the British Airways standalone operation and a sad statement about the future of AA in NYC.

BA Really got screwed by having a US partner shrink so much in New York.

Just a decade ago American and British were so dominant in New York to London the thought of anybody even competing against them would’ve been laughable.

A300 retirements, 767 retirements, 757 retirements all took a toll on the JFK hub. Old RJs flying odd ball routes from an empty terminal is what is left today. Coupled with a drastically reduced Euro footprint and BAs ancient 747s, they let the competition walk right in.


Lord, AA does one good thing and you find a way to drop an anvil on it, get over yourself


What did AA/BA do that was good?

They Built out a Blockbuster Video sized space and repurposed jetways in a 15 year old Terminal that was never finished?

AA/BA got backed into this corner because the Governor and B6 yanked the T7 lease out from under them after being in place for 45+ years.


AA has shrunk so much in NYC, that BA could move into the unfinished T8 without having to finish it.

This is a good day for AA/BA in the NYC market??

JFK is being rebuilt and AA/BA are mere spectators
 
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bgm
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:05 pm

stlgph wrote:
Terminal 7 is fine. Welcome to New York.


Terminal 7 is most definitely not fine. It's a complete dump, only marginally outdone by the 3rd world shithole down the street that is LGA.

T8, while not amazing, is definitely an improvement. It'll also be good for those making AA/BA connections, without wasting time exiting the terminal and riding the Airtrain carousel around JFK.
Really? Four more years of this?
 
sxf24
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:57 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
sargester wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Just to clarify, there is almost no expansion of terminal 8. It will not be built out as originally envisioned. 70,000 sq feet is a store at your local mall.

American has shrunk so much that most of British will fit right in there as is.

Furthermore the regional gate operation is going away which tells you all you need to know about the regional operation future at JFK.

All in all, a sad day for the end of the British Airways standalone operation and a sad statement about the future of AA in NYC.

BA Really got screwed by having a US partner shrink so much in New York.

Just a decade ago American and British were so dominant in New York to London the thought of anybody even competing against them would’ve been laughable.

A300 retirements, 767 retirements, 757 retirements all took a toll on the JFK hub. Old RJs flying odd ball routes from an empty terminal is what is left today. Coupled with a drastically reduced Euro footprint and BAs ancient 747s, they let the competition walk right in.


Lord, AA does one good thing and you find a way to drop an anvil on it, get over yourself


What did AA/BA do that was good?

They Built out a Blockbuster Video sized space and repurposed jetways in a 15 year old Terminal that was never finished?

AA/BA got backed into this corner because the Governor and B6 yanked the T7 lease out from under them after being in place for 45+ years.


AA has shrunk so much in NYC, that BA could move into the unfinished T8 without having to finish it.

This is a good day for AA/BA in the NYC market??

JFK is being rebuilt and AA/BA are mere spectators


I am pretty sure BA was not backed into a corner. Their existing T7 leases gives them quite a bit of power and control. What they appear to have done is make the decision that will satisfy a key priority, be the cheapest and give them the most control going forward: co-locate with AA.
 
stlgph
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:55 pm

bgm wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Terminal 7 is fine. Welcome to New York.


Terminal 7 is most definitely not fine. It's a complete dump, only marginally outdone by the 3rd world shithole down the street that is LGA.

T8, while not amazing, is definitely an improvement. It'll also be good for those making AA/BA connections, without wasting time exiting the terminal and riding the Airtrain carousel around JFK.


Get over yourself. Terminal 7 is fine.

It's an airport. People are coming and going in a matter of a couple of hours, or less.

It's not a Four Seasons luxury resort.

Can't wait to see your expectations for the 1 Train.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Sydscott
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:13 pm

stlgph wrote:
bgm wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Terminal 7 is fine. Welcome to New York.


Terminal 7 is most definitely not fine. It's a complete dump, only marginally outdone by the 3rd world shithole down the street that is LGA.

T8, while not amazing, is definitely an improvement. It'll also be good for those making AA/BA connections, without wasting time exiting the terminal and riding the Airtrain carousel around JFK.


Get over yourself. Terminal 7 is fine.

It's an airport. People are coming and going in a matter of a couple of hours, or less.

It's not a Four Seasons luxury resort.

Can't wait to see your expectations for the 1 Train.


Yes it's an airport and the prime goal of an airport is to get passenges in and out in the most efficient and effective manner. That is something that an over-crowded and poorly laid out T7 fails miserably at and that T8 will be way better at doing for the Joint BA / AA especially with new lounges. (And presumably BA's pre-flight dining etc experience)
 
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bgm
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:33 pm

stlgph wrote:
bgm wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Terminal 7 is fine. Welcome to New York.


Terminal 7 is most definitely not fine. It's a complete dump, only marginally outdone by the 3rd world shithole down the street that is LGA.

T8, while not amazing, is definitely an improvement. It'll also be good for those making AA/BA connections, without wasting time exiting the terminal and riding the Airtrain carousel around JFK.


Get over yourself. Terminal 7 is fine.

It's an airport. People are coming and going in a matter of a couple of hours, or less.

It's not a Four Seasons luxury resort.

Can't wait to see your expectations for the 1 Train.


Get over yourself. Terminal 7 is NOT fine. It's a dump.

Why do I say that? Aesthetics aside, it's poorly laid out, awful security, terrible shops/food options, and horribly cramped and disorganized gates/boarding areas. It is far from a pleasant experience. I say this from experience boarding many, many BA flights from T7.

So yeah. T7 is a dump.
Really? Four more years of this?
 
stlgph
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:49 pm

No one is coming to any of the airports and going "my god, this is a horrible dump of a terminal and I might have to walk by a McDonald's and I don't have gold plated toilet paper to wipe myself" and turning around and going back home and never coming back again.. No one. Not even you,

Terminal 7 is fine. It's an airport. Not your ego trip.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
chonetsao
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:02 pm

bgm wrote:
stlgph wrote:
bgm wrote:

Terminal 7 is most definitely not fine. It's a complete dump, only marginally outdone by the 3rd world shithole down the street that is LGA.

T8, while not amazing, is definitely an improvement. It'll also be good for those making AA/BA connections, without wasting time exiting the terminal and riding the Airtrain carousel around JFK.


Get over yourself. Terminal 7 is fine.

It's an airport. People are coming and going in a matter of a couple of hours, or less.

It's not a Four Seasons luxury resort.

Can't wait to see your expectations for the 1 Train.


Get over yourself. Terminal 7 is NOT fine. It's a dump.

Why do I say that? Aesthetics aside, it's poorly laid out, awful security, terrible shops/food options, and horribly cramped and disorganized gates/boarding areas. It is far from a pleasant experience. I say this from experience boarding many, many BA flights from T7.

So yeah. T7 is a dump.


I agree with you. JFK T7 is one of the worst airport terminals I have ever been in the whole or Europe and North America. I actively avoid T7. I have been using AA on JFK LHR all the time and avoid BA to T7. Even London Stansted feels much more superior than JFK T7.
 
IcelandairMSP
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:29 am

It is starting to seem at this point that no one intends to ever fully build out T8. By the time AA or anyone expands enough to warrant the buildout of T8, it will be deep into the 2020's or even 2030 by which point the terminal might be old enough to be scrapped and rebuilt, much like they are doing with Terminal 1 now and maybe without AA at the head.

Things could always change if AA revved up at JFK (little to suggest that!), but it might be time to give up on ever seeing T8 "finished" and look forward to the other, better improvements at pretty much every other terminal at JFK, LGA, and EWR and expect to see the half-terminal of T8 on Google Earth for a long time to come.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:42 am

IcelandairMSP wrote:
It is starting to seem at this point that no one intends to ever fully build out T8. By the time AA or anyone expands enough to warrant the buildout of T8, it will be deep into the 2020's or even 2030 by which point the terminal might be old enough to be scrapped and rebuilt, much like they are doing with Terminal 1 now and maybe without AA at the head.

Things could always change if AA revved up at JFK (little to suggest that!), but it might be time to give up on ever seeing T8 "finished" and look forward to the other, better improvements at pretty much every other terminal at JFK, LGA, and EWR and expect to see the half-terminal of T8 on Google Earth for a long time to come.


Deep into the 2020s is less than 10 years....there is absolutely no way it will be "old enough to be scrapped and rebuilt" then. Maybe in 30 years.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:28 am

I like T7.

Small, quick and in decent shape.

12 widebody gates with an array of airlines and aircraft, it is fairly unique in this modern, boring airport world

I got off Icelandair, cleared customs and was in a cab in less than 10 mins.

BA, to its credit, never let their terminal deteriorate like AA and DL and TW did to their old facilities. BA always kept up with it, always kept it modern...up to including the current redo.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:08 am

jfklganyc wrote:
I like T7.

Small, quick and in decent shape.

12 widebody gates with an array of airlines and aircraft, it is fairly unique in this modern, boring airport world

I got off Icelandair, cleared customs and was in a cab in less than 10 mins.

BA, to its credit, never let their terminal deteriorate like AA and DL and TW did to their old facilities. BA always kept up with it, always kept it modern...up to including the current redo.

When UA was there it was an awful experience. They had multiple PS flights leaving close together at night with not enough gate space even for 3 low density 757s and with all the JFK delays you could end up there forever.

Leaving during the day was just fine.

The layout was a maze but I don’t care about shops and as long as there was something quick to eat it was fine.
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:05 pm

IcelandairMSP wrote:
It is starting to seem at this point that no one intends to ever fully build out T8. By the time AA or anyone expands enough to warrant the buildout of T8, it will be deep into the 2020's or even 2030 by which point the terminal might be old enough to be scrapped and rebuilt, much like they are doing with Terminal 1 now and maybe without AA at the head.

Things could always change if AA revved up at JFK (little to suggest that!), but it might be time to give up on ever seeing T8 "finished" and look forward to the other, better improvements at pretty much every other terminal at JFK, LGA, and EWR and expect to see the half-terminal of T8 on Google Earth for a long time to come.

I'm not sure what the point would be to build out a lot of space that would end up being unused.

Maybe to waste a lot of money up front building the unused space then lose lots of money trying to staff and maintain lots of unused space?

It seems JFK is about to go through a near total re-invention of itself over the next decade or so.

It might be nice for T8 to do just a bit of tinkering to fit BA into its cavernous halls then sit back and watch the landscape around it change.
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:17 pm

Revelation wrote:
IcelandairMSP wrote:
It is starting to seem at this point that no one intends to ever fully build out T8. By the time AA or anyone expands enough to warrant the buildout of T8, it will be deep into the 2020's or even 2030 by which point the terminal might be old enough to be scrapped and rebuilt, much like they are doing with Terminal 1 now and maybe without AA at the head.

Things could always change if AA revved up at JFK (little to suggest that!), but it might be time to give up on ever seeing T8 "finished" and look forward to the other, better improvements at pretty much every other terminal at JFK, LGA, and EWR and expect to see the half-terminal of T8 on Google Earth for a long time to come.

I'm not sure what the point would be to build out a lot of space that would end up being unused.

Maybe to waste a lot of money up front building the unused space then lose lots of money trying to staff and maintain lots of unused space?

It seems JFK is about to go through a near total re-invention of itself over the next decade or so.

It might be nice for T8 to do just a bit of tinkering to fit BA into its cavernous halls then sit back and watch the landscape around it change.


Right. There's little reason to add a bunch more gates to T8 at this time; particularly when they can meet all of their needs with a modest expansion - one that still preserves the ability to expand via the original plan.

Basically, this plan is building out a small part of the original plan (the two new gates and small expansion of the concourse) and then making modifications of existing space to meet changing needs (conversion of regional gates to widebody gates; adding lounges for BA, etc).

Should the need arise in the future to continue expansion per the original plan, that option would still be on the table. For example, if they had a need and desire to buy out JL's portion of the T1 ownership, they could expand T8 again to make room for another JV partner.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:52 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Just to clarify, there is almost no expansion of terminal 8. It will not be built out as originally envisioned. 70,000 sq feet is a store at your local mall.

American has shrunk so much that most of British will fit right in there as is.

Well, let's say then that the expansion is for BA and BA lounges and rest of OW (and maybe EI) will fit in covering the current holes. If they can house all Oneworld (ex-JL) at T8, then why building and expending (investing) more than needed? They would have all AA coded flights (again ex-JL) out of the same building, which is a great accomplishment.

And it isn't like they are losing the land. They can always expandcfurther east as needed.

jfklganyc wrote:
BA Really got screwed by having a US partner shrink so much in New York.

Why? BA runs an almost shuttle service LHR-JFK (and the mini LCY service) and the occasional 1xLGW every time they fancy dropping and starting the route...
BA flies to 20+ destinations in the US.
AA has decided that JFK is a O/D and they don't want to run connecting passengers there as long as they have another suitabole (cheaper, less congested...) hub to funnel the traffic.

jfklganyc wrote:
Just a decade ago American and British were so dominant in New York to London the thought of anybody even competing against them would’ve been laughable.

Just a decade ago BRITISH was so dominant in JFK to LHR that AA and BA couldn't even codeshare (coupled to the fact that both AA and BA used LHR while others couldn't) . BA Executive members and AAdvantage members weren't able to earn/burn miles on the other carrier.
A decade ago, before openskies was signed. UA sold its JFK-LON (LHR) route authoriry to DL which used to start JFK-LGW (as LHR was banned for DL)
A decade ago, SQ-owned VS had LHR-JFK flights competing with both AA and BA.
A decade ago, DL used JV partners' AF-KLM slots at LHR to launch JFK-LHR flights closing former LGW routes.
A decade ago AI was running 5th freedom LHR-JFK flights....

Lost of things have changed in the last ten or so years. One of them is that American Airlines doesn't exist any more. It is just America West who purchased US Airways and decided to keep that name to purchase AA a few years later and keep that name.
What you see as AA, is just a huge HP all over the USA. The current "new American" is bigger than the former American. It just happens that JFK is resized to the shape America West wants it to have)

jbs2886 wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
GuruJanitor wrote:

I'd imagine there'd be some shuffling going on with some airlines in T4 moving to the new T1 and expanded T5, which would allow Delta to expand without actually doing any building out.

Yeah, LX and SQ are most likely moving to T1 with AF joining DL and KLM in T4. I expect a couple of other airlines to leave T4 to give DL the gates they need.


Umm...considering AF is an owner of T1 and is part of the redevelopment of T1, it is unlikely they will be moving. https://www.carlyle.com/media-room/news ... evelop-jfk


Well, yes and no. I don't see any TOGA member (AF, KE, LH, JL basing their operations elsewhere. But I can see some shuffling around to provide better service to passengers.

T1 will be no more just T1. It will be T1-T2-T3. A bigger building occupying more or less the space previously used by those Terminals. If DL (and JV and equity partner VS) is based at T4, I guess AF would want to operate as close as T4 as possible to ease up connections. That means not vacating T1, but operating at the east side of T123. Same with KE, KLM and as many Skyteam partners willing to share facilities with AF and KE.
Same with JL. I don't think they will leave their (shared) paid home just to be a lessor of AA space at T8. Being T1 quite close to T8 they might want to operate as west as possible of the new T123 complex to be as close to T8 as possible. But coming from Japan, I bet there are better places to connect onto AA and with more choices than JFK.

Then there's LH that could try to have all Star alliance carriers under one roof at T123. And let's not forget wholly LH-owned EW which uses T7
Not really a thing for connections, as there are better places elsewhere and no Star carriers hubs at JFK (like LHR T2). But it's just a good way to share spaces (check-in, lounges, fast track security, fast track inmigration, baggages...) and bring down costs.

dampfnudel wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Not to open another can of worms but do the widebody-capable gates in the T6 expansion hint at future B6 fleet plans?


There’s probably some regret at B6 over the shortsighted decision to omit widebody-capable gates when they planned T5. They don’t want to shortchange any potential future growth/business opportunities with other partners.


Well, The main problem is that you can't predict how large you will be, or what partners/lessors you could have, ten years in the future. When T5 was (re-)built, it was meant for JetBlue operations comprising A320 and E195. Nothing larger. If you can squeeze 2 widebodies into 3 narrowbody stands (by blocking one gate) then is preety much the same flexibility you could have by doing it at the design phase.

If Jetblue is now given the chance to expand towards T7, I guess, now, once they have their own needs covered, they can think about hosting others.

ikramerica wrote:
When UA was there it was an awful experience. They had multiple PS flights leaving close together at night with not enough gate space even for 3 low density 757s and with all the JFK delays you could end up there forever.

Leaving during the day was just fine.


Well, I remember using it last decade on IB. I remember the land side to be quite empty and under-used. But upstairs post security was nothing impressive. It did the job ok, but flying longhaul to another country from the megaHub that JFK is, one expects a large shopping mall full of Tax/Duty free products, and that can't be the case with tiny T7. I guess T1 is more or less the same.

The great problem is our flight was 1hr delayed at the rush evening time, and it really didn't feel it designed to cope with 300+ passengers for longer than scheduled.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:03 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
sargester wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Just to clarify, there is almost no expansion of terminal 8. It will not be built out as originally envisioned. 70,000 sq feet is a store at your local mall.

American has shrunk so much that most of British will fit right in there as is.

Furthermore the regional gate operation is going away which tells you all you need to know about the regional operation future at JFK.

All in all, a sad day for the end of the British Airways standalone operation and a sad statement about the future of AA in NYC.

BA Really got screwed by having a US partner shrink so much in New York.

Just a decade ago American and British were so dominant in New York to London the thought of anybody even competing against them would’ve been laughable.

A300 retirements, 767 retirements, 757 retirements all took a toll on the JFK hub. Old RJs flying odd ball routes from an empty terminal is what is left today. Coupled with a drastically reduced Euro footprint and BAs ancient 747s, they let the competition walk right in.


Lord, AA does one good thing and you find a way to drop an anvil on it, get over yourself


What did AA/BA do that was good?

They Built out a Blockbuster Video sized space and repurposed jetways in a 15 year old Terminal that was never finished?

AA/BA got backed into this corner because the Governor and B6 yanked the T7 lease out from under them after being in place for 45+ years.


AA has shrunk so much in NYC, that BA could move into the unfinished T8 without having to finish it.

This is a good day for AA/BA in the NYC market??

JFK is being rebuilt and AA/BA are mere spectators

70000 sf is between the area of a football field and a soccer field. That may be the size of a larger blockbuster video but that’s also why they went out of business.
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:40 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I like T7.

Small, quick and in decent shape.

12 widebody gates with an array of airlines and aircraft, it is fairly unique in this modern, boring airport world

I got off Icelandair, cleared customs and was in a cab in less than 10 mins.

BA, to its credit, never let their terminal deteriorate like AA and DL and TW did to their old facilities. BA always kept up with it, always kept it modern...up to including the current redo.


Agreed. The hate on this thread for T7 is hyperbole pure and simple. 3rd World? Oh, please--I wonder if that poster has ever been to the third world.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:17 pm

ikramerica wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
sargester wrote:

Lord, AA does one good thing and you find a way to drop an anvil on it, get over yourself


What did AA/BA do that was good?

They Built out a Blockbuster Video sized space and repurposed jetways in a 15 year old Terminal that was never finished?

AA/BA got backed into this corner because the Governor and B6 yanked the T7 lease out from under them after being in place for 45+ years.


AA has shrunk so much in NYC, that BA could move into the unfinished T8 without having to finish it.

This is a good day for AA/BA in the NYC market??

JFK is being rebuilt and AA/BA are mere spectators

70000 sf is between the area of a football field and a soccer field. That may be the size of a larger blockbuster video but that’s also why they went out of business.


The average Blockbuster Video store was more like 7,000 square feet, not 70,000 sf. A 70,000 sf store is a large supermarket, a bit bigger than your average Kroger.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:30 pm

spacecadet wrote:
Kno wrote:
Good riddance T7 is a sorry excuse for a terminal maybe the worst in the states and it is shameful to send folks out of that dump on a long haul journey.


From a passenger perspective, T7 is fine - in fact, it's much better than many terminals in this country. It's about 5 minutes from curb to gate and there's retail and food in easy walking distance of any gate. Either of those things individually, much less both together, are more than you can say for probably 50% of all terminals in the United States. It was also just recently upgraded and renovated: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/in ... fk-changes

T7's problems are all on the other side - the airlines and airport. It doesn't have enough gates and more can't really be added. As mentioned above, several of its gates push back into active taxiways. Its customs area is too small for multiple simultaneous international arrivals, and can't really be expanded. None of these are things that passengers should notice or care about; they're more issues with capacity that restrict movement and growth.

I think it's pretty likely that the new T8 will be a worse overall experience for most of those who would have previously used T7 - it's a good bet that it will take longer to get through security (because it's a bigger terminal with more passengers), it will take longer to walk to any given gate, and it's a unknown at this point whether all the new gates will have retail or food options in easy walking distance. The first two points there are already pretty much known; only the third remains to be seen.

That said, it'll be better for BA from a business and logistical perspective. It's also more likely to be better for F and J class passengers than it will be for Y class (though I didn't think there was anything wrong with BA's lounge in T7).


What nonsense. T7 is a dump. Old, poorly designed, and not intended for the volume it handles today. It got so bad that Qantas and Cathay decamped to T8. The FIS hall gets backed up with lines snaking back to the jetbridges at times. A truly awful place designed for 1970 aviation. Good riddance.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:19 pm

Aisak wrote:
It did the job ok, but flying longhaul to another country from the megaHub that JFK is, one expects a large shopping mall full of Tax/Duty free products, and that can't be the case with tiny T7. I guess T1 is more or less the same.

I think many of us would get rid of the rat in a maze shopping mall full of Tax/Duty free products for the minutes to the curb experience of T7.

Of course most of us here on a.net realize why that has largely gone away, but that doesn't mean we don't miss it.

global2 wrote:
Agreed. The hate on this thread for T7 is hyperbole pure and simple. 3rd World? Oh, please--I wonder if that poster has ever been to the third world.

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seat38a
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:45 pm

Will they eventually renumber the terminals so they are consecutive or are the current numbers going to be kept?
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:02 pm

seat38a wrote:
Will they eventually renumber the terminals so they are consecutive or are the current numbers going to be kept?


There have been changes already and no renumbering. There's currently no 3 or 6.
 
questions
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:06 pm

When built, who originally occupied T7?
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:23 pm

I thought it was originally the BA predecessor (BOAC).

Welp, I've learned that people have varying opinions of T7.

Overall, I'm pretty excited about the JFK vision.
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:43 pm

global2 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
I like T7.

Small, quick and in decent shape.

12 widebody gates with an array of airlines and aircraft, it is fairly unique in this modern, boring airport world

I got off Icelandair, cleared customs and was in a cab in less than 10 mins.

BA, to its credit, never let their terminal deteriorate like AA and DL and TW did to their old facilities. BA always kept up with it, always kept it modern...up to including the current redo.


Agreed. The hate on this thread for T7 is hyperbole pure and simple. 3rd World? Oh, please--I wonder if that poster has ever been to the third world.


The poster you mentioned might not be right. But your accusation of whether that poster had been to a third world country is a personal remark, or even a personal attack. I think that is very unnecessary.

I am in the camp of believe JFK T7 is awful. I would not necessarily say airport from 3rd world countries are nicer. But from my personal experiences, airports I have visited in countries like Bolivia, Chile, Egypt, South Africa, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Khaskhstan and many other so called third world countries all have airports that has attributes much nicer than JFK T7. Whether you like T7 or not, that is a personal feeling and opinion. Please let it stay in that way, a matter of personal opinion.

If you disagree with the original poster you mentioned, maybe you can list airports from third world country that is much worse than JFK T7.

Just my two cents. Please so personal attacks or questioning. Thank you.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:58 am

Doesn’t Alaska use the same terminal as BA, and they opened a lounge there? Does this offer them some opportunity to expand?
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:07 am

They wont renumber.

Delta and B6 has made their terminal numbers branded extensions of themselves.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:50 am

questions wrote:
When built, who originally occupied T7?


T7 was originally built for BOAC (the BA predecessor) and Air Canada. United moved into T7 around 1991 (from their own pier in the old T9 which was taken up by AA) until leaving for EWR post CO/UA merger.

Pic of T7 as it opened for BOAC and Air Canada:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gone_pixin/38500957260
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:15 am

jfklganyc wrote:
They wont renumber.

Delta and B6 has made their terminal numbers branded extensions of themselves.


However in the future at JFK, there could only be T1/T4/T5 and T8, not an ideal numbering system if you ask me.
 
Bradin
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:10 am

cschleic wrote:
Bradin wrote:
As much as I applaud the changes, I am also mixed and torn on this. Short term enhancements are most definitely needed. But it's also just that - short term.

It would be much wiser to use that same funds on long term capital improvements to the overall operational aspects of JFK - such as cleaning up how all the terminals and taxiways are laid out at JFK and how airplanes can get in and out quickly, safely, and efficiently without having to play musical planes.


The logical layout would be similar to what is being done at Heathrow....rows of gates between parallel runways, like any other new airport these days. But doing it while JFK is in use....would take forever.


I spent sometime yesterday and today reviewing possible stakeholders and movement patterns to see what can be done. From what I can see on Google Maps, it's probably a 5-15 year project with many pieces moving in sync with each other. While not impossible, it is doable, with probably not as bad of a price tag as it first seems. Granted, it is heavily dependent on political appetite to undergo such a project, the willingness of stakeholders to work together, and funding.

The plan I devised was:

Phase 0 - Conversion of Long Term Parking Lot 9
-New Consolidated Rental Parking Garage Facility
-New Parking Structures for Long Term Parking
-New Employee and JFK Staff Parking Structure
-New Check In Concourse along the 103rd Street near Howard Beach/JFK Subway Station.
-New Police Station and Fire Station
-Straighten out rail system to get people to and from stations quicker
-New JFK Charter/Taxi Hold Lots

Phase 1 - JFK West
-Tear Down the West Campus Area - where Aero Snow Removal and the Port Authority Offices/Atlas Cargo area and convert into a massive new 1.5+ million square foot consolidated cargo facility similar to the HKG AFCC.
-Begin Construction of new LHR styled concourses adjacent to Terminal 2 and 7.
-Begin Construction of new LHR styled concourses extending from Terminal 8
-Begin Construction of new Port Authority Offices on former rental car facility sites.

Phase 2
-Move Delta Cargo, Atlas Cargo, Swissport, Saudio Airlines Cargo, Cathay Pacific Cargo, American Airlines Cargo, Japan Airlines Cargo, Emirates Cargo, etc. into new consolidated Cargo Facility
-Demolish Northern Cargo Area where Japan Airlines/China/etc. sit and build new UPS Cargo Facility/USPS Mail Sort
-JFK Cargo Building 77 is demolished for new JetBlue Maintenance Hangar
-Begin Demolition of Delta Cargo/Swissport Areas for new LHR styled concourses
-Move Airlines from T2 and T7 to new facilities.
-Tear Down Old Facilities. Transfer all check in to new remote check in. Luggage drop off and screening will still need to be done at new faciliites.
-New Concourse behind T4.

Phase 3
-Move UPS/USPS/JetBlue to new facilities
-Demolish old jetblue hangar, UPS facilities
-Demolish old waiting lots for Uber/Limos/Buses and Taxis
-Begin construction of new concourse on former Delta Fargo/Swissport Cargo Areas
-Teardown and begin construction of new AA Maintenance Hangar on former Nippon Cargo Airlines lot and adjacent to DHL Global Forwarding

Phase 4
-Begin New Central Checkin and Screening Area on the AA Maintenance Area with an additional concourse for planes
-Road Construction and new parking structures for the central terminal area.
-Underground rail/terminal connection system being constructed. Temporary stations constructed to help people get to their concourses that are currently disconnected from rail system.

Phase 5
-New Central Terminal Opens
Expressways into the legacy terminals is shutdown and torn out.

Phase 6
Tear out roadways, parking structures and place in new concourses in connecting the new T2 and T7 buildings together.
Move airlines from T1 to the space in T7. Move some airlines from T4 also to the new space.
Shutdown southeast/south corner of T4 and teardown. Build new terminal that connects to the new T4 concourse build in Phase 2

Phase 7
New AA Concourse 7

Phase 8
Demolish Remaining Terminals (4, 5, 8) and complete rest of terminals.


Unscientific planning/rough estimate is that no airlines or cargo carriers will ever loose gate space because for each area shutdown there will be the same amount of gates coming online.

By the time everything is complete, 6 full length concourses and one central terminal will exist.
Last edited by Bradin on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:13 am

Jet-lagged wrote:
Doesn’t Alaska use the same terminal as BA, and they opened a lounge there? Does this offer them some opportunity to expand?


Yes, AS is in T7 and just opened a new Alaska Lounge location. There has been discussion about expansion at JFK but we'll see what the future holds.
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J343
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:14 am

There is nothing wrong with T7. I'd say MNL T1 us by far the worst airport terminal I've been to.
 
max999
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:51 am

I agree with others that JFK Terminal 7 is terrible. I used that terminal six separate times in 2018 so I can back up my opinion with first hand experience.

Biggest problem: there is absolutely not enough room anywhere in the terminal for the number of passengers it handles, especially during rush hours.
*The security lines are slow and circuitous with few scanner stations. Even the premium security line is slow because there are only two scanner stations.
*Worse of all, there is NO dedicated TSA precheck line at T7. I believe this is the only JFK terminal that does not have dedicated precheck.
*There is not enough seating space by the gates...not when there are multiple 747s departing next to each other. There are big crowds of people loitering everywhere because of the lack of seats.
*The shopping and food selection is miniscule compared other JFK terminals.
*The lavatories are hard to find and there aren't enough of them for the number of people. I've seen lines out the door for the women's toilet.
*There's loud construction noise that rings through the terminal because there's not enough space to separate the areas under construction
*The queue for immigration backs up into the gates because the hallways are too narrow. There are no separate queues for American, non-American, and global entry until you are directly in the immigration hall.

To all the folks who say we shouldn't complaint about T7 or that it is OK:
1) Have you actually been experienced it?
2) Please compare it against other terminals at JFK because would be a fair, apples to apples comparison. The experience of T7 is considerably worse than other JFK terminals.
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blockski
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:24 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
They wont renumber.

Delta and B6 has made their terminal numbers branded extensions of themselves.


However in the future at JFK, there could only be T1/T4/T5 and T8, not an ideal numbering system if you ask me.


Since the airtrain stations will all remain, I suspect they might number some of the terminals differently, even though many would be connected and essentially the same structure. For example, the new T1 could really be labeled as T1 and T2; same for the expanded T5/7.

Would be also helpful to direct passengers to the best spot for drop off. A new T5/7 might be connected, but will still functionally serve as two terminals.
 
blockski
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Re: WSJ reports JFK Terminal 8 to get $344M Renovation to host AA and BA

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:25 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
They wont renumber.

Delta and B6 has made their terminal numbers branded extensions of themselves.


However in the future at JFK, there could only be T1/T4/T5 and T8, not an ideal numbering system if you ask me.


Since the airtrain stations will all remain, I suspect they might number some of the terminals differently, even though many would be connected and essentially the same structure. For example, the new T1 could really be labeled as T1 and T2; same for the expanded T5/7.

Would be also helpful to direct passengers to the best spot for drop off. A new T5/7 might be connected, but will still functionally serve as two terminals.

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