David_itl
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AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:20 pm

62 year old pilot arrested at MAN where they were due to command AA735 to PHL. Bailed now pending further enquiries, with the flight cancelled and passengers rebooked.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/pilot-62-arrested-manchester-airport-15798175
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:26 pm

To stay in line with a recent thread on a similar subject:
- this is unforgivable;
- he should be banned for life from flying;
- we may want to think about hanging him in public place as an example;
- whoever disagrees with this is a pathetic apologist of frequent alcoholism among commercial pilots and should be hanged with the culprit.
Thread closed, nothing else to say.

PS: sarcasm.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:34 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
To stay in line with a recent thread on a similar subject:
- this is unforgivable;
- he should be banned for life from flying;
- we may want to think about hanging him in public place as an example;
- whoever disagrees with this is a pathetic apologist of frequent alcoholism among commercial pilots and should be hanged with the culprit.
Thread closed, nothing else to say.

PS: sarcasm.


You've been on this forum for 4 months and apparently are an expert. Got it!

PS: Not sarcasm
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
IPFreely
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:38 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
To stay in line with a recent thread on a similar subject:
- this is unforgivable;
- he should be banned for life from flying;
- we may want to think about hanging him in public place as an example;
- whoever disagrees with this is a pathetic apologist of frequent alcoholism among commercial pilots and should be hanged with the culprit.
Thread closed, nothing else to say.

PS: sarcasm.


Excellent, but to be fair that stays in line with half the thread. The other half:
- everyone must get him help whether he wants it or not
- too much money is invested in him, he needs a million dollar rehab to protect that investment
- he was drunk but not that drunk
- he had to fly early or late or travel so he’s the victim here
- showing up drunk was his way of asking for the help he needs
- his employer understands his needs and doesn’t listen to the haters on this board
- this reflects well on everyone at AA
 
kiowa
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:59 pm

I believe the limit in the UK is half of the limit in the US-still no excuse.
 
musman9853
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:25 pm

ffs people how hard is it to not drink before your job
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:28 pm

Not saying it is what happened in this case but I recently saw a case where some pissed off passengers accused a crew member of being intoxicated because he/she showed late. As is required, they went for mandatory testing. One of the crew members ended up blowing a .02 despite following the eight hour bottle to throttle "rule" by a decent margin.

Not everyone is aware when they still have lingering alcohol in their system when its not actually impairing them (as far as they can tell).
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
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Aesma
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:37 pm

I guess that "rule" works better if you drink the one glass, less so if you go overboard.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:42 pm

This is what happens when there are no consequences for your actions. He will get a paid trip to rehab for a few weeks and then right back on the line. Aren't unions great?
 
liveupthere
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:58 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
This is what happens when there are no consequences for your actions. He will get a paid trip to rehab for a few weeks and then right back on the line. Aren't unions great?

You're not very bright. Same thing happened in GLA to two UA pilots about two years ago. They both received jail sentences, and lost their licenses. Thanks for playing, though.
 
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longhauler
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:30 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
This is what happens when there are no consequences for your actions. He will get a paid trip to rehab for a few weeks and then right back on the line. Aren't unions great?


Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

That is why unions have "hot lines" where a pilot can call for help ... any time, anywhere. Once the alcoholism is admitted, then it is the union that advises the airline and the union starts things working. But only BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Seeing a trend yet? You see, once he has broken the law, then basically all bets are off. The union will represent him legally, they are bound to. But like any Air Regulation that is broken knowingly, the outcome is usually the same. As noted above, pilots that break the law usually end up in jail. I'd say they see the "consequences of their actions". And most pilots are aware of these consequences.

Personally, I know of only one pilot that broke the law with regard to alcohol and is back flying. That is the Northwest Airlines Captain of many years ago. His story is one of courage and strength. And it most certainly is not common.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:51 pm

...I’d be drunk to if I had to fly one of those
hanger queens across the ocean as well.
Imagine how far over the limit he’d be if he was an AA 763 captain.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:03 am

longhauler wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
This is what happens when there are no consequences for your actions. He will get a paid trip to rehab for a few weeks and then right back on the line. Aren't unions great?


Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

That is why unions have "hot lines" where a pilot can call for help ... any time, anywhere. Once the alcoholism is admitted, then it is the union that advises the airline and the union starts things working. But only BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Seeing a trend yet? You see, once he has broken the law, then basically all bets are off. The union will represent him legally, they are bound to. But like any Air Regulation that is broken knowingly, the outcome is usually the same. As noted above, pilots that break the law usually end up in jail. I'd say they see the "consequences of their actions". And most pilots are aware of these consequences.

Personally, I know of only one pilot that broke the law with regard to alcohol and is back flying. That is the Northwest Airlines Captain of many years ago. His story is one of courage and strength. And it most certainly is not common.


I fully support such assistance for pilots who seek it. But not after the fact. But someone in the drunk Delta pilot thread said that the union would make sure he keeps his job. I really hope that isn't the case.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:23 am

CLTRampRat wrote:
...I’d be drunk to if I had to fly one of those
hanger queens across the ocean as well.
Imagine how far over the limit he’d be if he was an AA 763 captain.


When I'm drunk, I still know the difference between hangar and hanger ;)

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
kiowa
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:30 am

TWA902fly wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
...I’d be drunk to if I had to fly one of those
hanger queens across the ocean as well.
Imagine how far over the limit he’d be if he was an AA 763 captain.


When I'm drunk, I still know the difference between hangar and hanger ;)

'902



As well as knowing the difference between too and to.
 
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September11
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:34 am

Flying in February is depressing. Darker, colder, lower load factor, Christmas holidays gone.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
spacecadet
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:34 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
This is what happens when there are no consequences for your actions. He will get a paid trip to rehab for a few weeks and then right back on the line. Aren't unions great?


You can't just parrot a particular line just because it fits whatever worldview you have. You have to make sure it's actually true, and in this case, there's not a single statement in your post that is.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
winginit
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:36 am

IPFreely wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
To stay in line with a recent thread on a similar subject:
- this is unforgivable;
- he should be banned for life from flying;
- we may want to think about hanging him in public place as an example;
- whoever disagrees with this is a pathetic apologist of frequent alcoholism among commercial pilots and should be hanged with the culprit.
Thread closed, nothing else to say.

PS: sarcasm.


Excellent, but to be fair that stays in line with half the thread. The other half:
- everyone must get him help whether he wants it or not
- too much money is invested in him, he needs a million dollar rehab to protect that investment
- he was drunk but not that drunk
- he had to fly early or late or travel so he’s the victim here
- showing up drunk was his way of asking for the help he needs
- his employer understands his needs and doesn’t listen to the haters on this board
- this reflects well on everyone at AA


Nicely done boys - I'd say we can pack it up here.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:38 am

CLTRampRat wrote:
...I’d be drunk to if I had to fly one of those
hanger queens across the ocean as well.
Imagine how far over the limit he’d be if he was an AA 763 captain.


To my knowledge, the 332 isn't the hangar queen but rather the 333 on the LUS side.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:02 am

alasizon wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
...I’d be drunk to if I had to fly one of those
hanger queens across the ocean as well.
Imagine how far over the limit he’d be if he was an AA 763 captain.


To my knowledge, the 332 isn't the hangar queen but rather the 333 on the LUS side.



I’ll give you that.
 
ltbewr
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:23 am

It is sad that a pilot has put themselves in the position that jeopardizes public safety and why the strict standards of what a FUI is and strong enforcement. The judiciary process will take place, to make sure the testing is accurate and that the testing was for cause or was sufficiently random and not a targeted person.

I assume airlines have ways for pilots or cabin crew members who suspect if one of them may have violated the 'bottle to throttle' rule can call the company with anonymity to protect the airline, passengers and others to cause a check of such persons. That may be what happened here.

Many with DUI's have long got away with it before getting caught, have an existing problem of self control with the consumption of alcohol in their lives and eventually will either get caught or unfortunately kill or injure others while DUI.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:29 am

airportugal310 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
To stay in line with a recent thread on a similar subject:
- this is unforgivable;
- he should be banned for life from flying;
- we may want to think about hanging him in public place as an example;
- whoever disagrees with this is a pathetic apologist of frequent alcoholism among commercial pilots and should be hanged with the culprit.
Thread closed, nothing else to say.

PS: sarcasm.


You've been on this forum for 4 months and apparently are an expert. Got it!

PS: Not sarcasm

I've been reading this website for far longer than you've been a member; I don't see your point.

Wanna make this a pissing contest???
 
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September11
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:50 am

A good must-ask question: Is this pilot's name Doug Parker??? 4th DUI, I hope not.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
Yonderlust
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:18 am

[Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Alcoholism is not a disease. It if was, then the countless former ones could never stop drinking. However, some alcoholics may have a biological component that predisposes addiction. That might qualify as a disease. But for many, it's choice and learned behavior.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:35 am

Yonderlust wrote:
[Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Alcoholism is not a disease. It if was, then the countless former ones could never stop drinking. However, some alcoholics may have a biological component that predisposes addiction. That might qualify as a disease. But for many, it's choice and learned behavior.


It doesn't really matter if alcoholism is an illness. All kinds of illnesses can prevent someone from being a pilot. Vertigo, seizures, heart disease, etc. We feel that those illnesses mean there is too great a risk for someone to be in command of an aircraft. Alcoholism should be added to that list.
 
travaz
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:45 am

WayexTDI wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
To stay in line with a recent thread on a similar subject:
- this is unforgivable;
- he should be banned for life from flying;
- we may want to think about hanging him in public place as an example;
- whoever disagrees with this is a pathetic apologist of frequent alcoholism among commercial pilots and should be hanged with the culprit.
Thread closed, nothing else to say.

PS: sarcasm.


You've been on this forum for 4 months and apparently are an expert. Got it!

PS: Not sarcasm

I've been reading this website for far longer than you've been a member; I don't see your point.

Wanna make this a pissing contest???


Ok get out the beer so it can be a proper pissing contest! (Sarcasm? Maybe)
 
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NYPECO
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:56 am

airportugal310 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
To stay in line with a recent thread on a similar subject:
- this is unforgivable;
- he should be banned for life from flying;
- we may want to think about hanging him in public place as an example;
- whoever disagrees with this is a pathetic apologist of frequent alcoholism among commercial pilots and should be hanged with the culprit.
Thread closed, nothing else to say.

PS: sarcasm.


You've been on this forum for 4 months and apparently are an expert. Got it!

PS: Not sarcasm


The recent thread he's referring to is from less than 4 months ago.
 
777PHX
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:25 am

Yonderlust wrote:
[Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Alcoholism is not a disease. It if was, then the countless former ones could never stop drinking. However, some alcoholics may have a biological component that predisposes addiction. That might qualify as a disease. But for many, it's choice and learned behavior.


Typical airliners.net mom's basement response.

Anyone who has a beer is satan and deserves to go to the gulag!

The UK's flying BAC limit is .02, which is absurdly low. Most people are over that after one drink.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:35 am

777PHX wrote:
Yonderlust wrote:
[Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Alcoholism is not a disease. It if was, then the countless former ones could never stop drinking. However, some alcoholics may have a biological component that predisposes addiction. That might qualify as a disease. But for many, it's choice and learned behavior.


Typical airliners.net mom's basement response.

Anyone who has a beer is satan and deserves to go to the gulag!

The UK's flying BAC limit is .02, which is absurdly low. Most people are over that after one drink.


What justification can you give us for drinking while on duty? It isn't hard to show up to work completely sober. Just don't drink on anything less than a 48 hour layover. If you can't go two days without a drink then you have a serious problem.
 
777PHX
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:40 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
777PHX wrote:
Yonderlust wrote:
[Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Alcoholism is not a disease. It if was, then the countless former ones could never stop drinking. However, some alcoholics may have a biological component that predisposes addiction. That might qualify as a disease. But for many, it's choice and learned behavior.


Typical airliners.net mom's basement response.

Anyone who has a beer is satan and deserves to go to the gulag!

The UK's flying BAC limit is .02, which is absurdly low. Most people are over that after one drink.


What justification can you give us for drinking while on duty? It isn't hard to show up to work completely sober. Just don't drink on anything less than a 48 hour layover. If you can't go two days without a drink then you have a serious problem.


Again, kiddos with no idea how the adult world works...

I can almost guarantee you he wasn't drinking on duty. It was residuals from the night before.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:58 am

777PHX wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
777PHX wrote:

Typical airliners.net mom's basement response.

Anyone who has a beer is satan and deserves to go to the gulag!

The UK's flying BAC limit is .02, which is absurdly low. Most people are over that after one drink.


What justification can you give us for drinking while on duty? It isn't hard to show up to work completely sober. Just don't drink on anything less than a 48 hour layover. If you can't go two days without a drink then you have a serious problem.


Again, kiddos with no idea how the adult world works...

I can almost guarantee you he wasn't drinking on duty. It was residuals from the night before.


Sounds like someone with very bad judgement. I think it's time the airlines introduce a no alcohol policy while on a trip. Most all airlines prevent drinking while in uniform. And some airlines restrict where their crews can and cannot go while on a trip so think there is valid precedent. That way if they show up intoxicated there is really zero excuse for it.
 
N757ST
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:04 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
777PHX wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

What justification can you give us for drinking while on duty? It isn't hard to show up to work completely sober. Just don't drink on anything less than a 48 hour layover. If you can't go two days without a drink then you have a serious problem.


Again, kiddos with no idea how the adult world works...

I can almost guarantee you he wasn't drinking on duty. It was residuals from the night before.


Sounds like someone with very bad judgement. I think it's time the airlines introduce a no alcohol policy while on a trip. Most all airlines prevent drinking while in uniform. And some airlines restrict where their crews can and cannot go while on a trip so think there is valid precedent. That way if they show up intoxicated there is really zero excuse for it.


Oh give me a break. It’s beyond exceedingly rare that an event like this happens, yet you want to police the whole of pilot groups nationwide due to few bad apples. What’s next, one drunk driver means bars nationwide should shut down? Common sense man.

And no, I’ve never worked for an airline that restricted where I can and cannot go on a layover.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:13 am

N757ST wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
777PHX wrote:

Again, kiddos with no idea how the adult world works...

I can almost guarantee you he wasn't drinking on duty. It was residuals from the night before.


Sounds like someone with very bad judgement. I think it's time the airlines introduce a no alcohol policy while on a trip. Most all airlines prevent drinking while in uniform. And some airlines restrict where their crews can and cannot go while on a trip so think there is valid precedent. That way if they show up intoxicated there is really zero excuse for it.


Oh give me a break. It’s beyond exceedingly rare that an event like this happens, yet you want to police the whole of pilot groups nationwide due to few bad apples. What’s next, one drunk driver means bars nationwide should shut down? Common sense man.

And no, I’ve never worked for an airline that restricted where I can and cannot go on a layover.


I wouldn't think such a harsh policy would be in order if pilots would stand up and tell these bad pilots that their behavior is unacceptable. But the silence is deafening. I won't stand for any bad coworker making me or the rest of my workgroup look bad.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:22 am

I swear these incidents are getting more and more frequent, quite pathetic.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:23 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
This is what happens when there are no consequences for your actions. He will get a paid trip to rehab for a few weeks and then right back on the line. Aren't unions great?


Boy you sure are tuff for how uneducated you are. HIMS is a LONG process and then even longer to get your licenses back........Some never do. You can have your opinion but try to be informed or you will continue to look like a fool.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
777PHX wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

What justification can you give us for drinking while on duty? It isn't hard to show up to work completely sober. Just don't drink on anything less than a 48 hour layover. If you can't go two days without a drink then you have a serious problem.


Again, kiddos with no idea how the adult world works...

I can almost guarantee you he wasn't drinking on duty. It was residuals from the night before.


Sounds like someone with very bad judgement. I think it's time the airlines introduce a no alcohol policy while on a trip. Most all airlines prevent drinking while in uniform. And some airlines restrict where their crews can and cannot go while on a trip so think there is valid precedent. That way if they show up intoxicated there is really zero excuse for it.


Give me 1 airline other than A North Korean airline that restricts its crews on layovers. How would they even enforce that?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:43 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
777PHX wrote:

Again, kiddos with no idea how the adult world works...

I can almost guarantee you he wasn't drinking on duty. It was residuals from the night before.


Sounds like someone with very bad judgement. I think it's time the airlines introduce a no alcohol policy while on a trip. Most all airlines prevent drinking while in uniform. And some airlines restrict where their crews can and cannot go while on a trip so think there is valid precedent. That way if they show up intoxicated there is really zero excuse for it.


Give me 1 airline other than A North Korean airline that restricts its crews on layovers. How would they even enforce that?


I know several US airlines restricted their crews on CCS overnights. They weren't allowed to leave the hotel. I think Delta restricts crews on some of there Africa layovers.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:30 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Sounds like someone with very bad judgement. I think it's time the airlines introduce a no alcohol policy while on a trip. Most all airlines prevent drinking while in uniform. And some airlines restrict where their crews can and cannot go while on a trip so think there is valid precedent. That way if they show up intoxicated there is really zero excuse for it.


Give me 1 airline other than A North Korean airline that restricts its crews on layovers. How would they even enforce that?


I know several US airlines restricted their crews on CCS overnights. They weren't allowed to leave the hotel. I think Delta restricts crews on some of there Africa layovers.

Honestly, isn't it more for their own safety (meaning, there is a potential for the crew to be the target of a crime) than to prevent them from going to a bar?
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:31 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
I swear these incidents are getting more and more frequent, quite pathetic.

Not sure they are becoming more frequent; they are making the headlines more frequently because someone tipped the media in exchange for a handful of bills...
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:56 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Give me 1 airline other than A North Korean airline that restricts its crews on layovers. How would they even enforce that?


I know several US airlines restricted their crews on CCS overnights. They weren't allowed to leave the hotel. I think Delta restricts crews on some of there Africa layovers.

Honestly, isn't it more for their own safety (meaning, there is a potential for the crew to be the target of a crime) than to prevent them from going to a bar?


Of course It's for safety reasons. I never said it was to keep them from bars. And I'm sure their hotel had a bar they could go to. I was just saying there is prevent of airlines putting stipulations on layovers.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2277
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:07 pm

longhauler wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
This is what happens when there are no consequences for your actions. He will get a paid trip to rehab for a few weeks and then right back on the line. Aren't unions great?


Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

That is why unions have "hot lines" where a pilot can call for help ... any time, anywhere. Once the alcoholism is admitted, then it is the union that advises the airline and the union starts things working. But only BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Seeing a trend yet? You see, once he has broken the law, then basically all bets are off. The union will represent him legally, they are bound to. But like any Air Regulation that is broken knowingly, the outcome is usually the same. As noted above, pilots that break the law usually end up in jail. I'd say they see the "consequences of their actions". And most pilots are aware of these consequences.

Personally, I know of only one pilot that broke the law with regard to alcohol and is back flying. That is the Northwest Airlines Captain of many years ago. His story is one of courage and strength. And it most certainly is not common.


Longhauler dear, alcoholism is NOT a disease, like cancer, as you say. Not by a million shot. It's an addiction. Or rather, would you perhaps say then that cancer is thus an addiction??
You may want to brush up on your medical facts, because what you state is not only factually GROSSLY incorrect, but it's also extremely offensive for any cancer patient.

This point aside, anyone who is in such a critically professional position (a long-haul captain) should know better than having a drink before reporting to work, in order to fly +200 souls across an ocean, under his own responsibility. If a man is not capable of performing these duties sober, then he no longer belongs to that coveted, precious, highly-paid seat, up there in the pointy bit of the jet.
You know, It's one of those crucially unique professions where you must expect only the highest standards from a professional, nothing less. Or: anything less is not enough. Same for a surgeon, or a judge. You know, there's few professions were you really do hold in your hands the lives of other people... And if you can't stay away from the bottle, no matter what, I don't want to entrust my own life onto your hands.

Am I being harsh? probably. I still don't give a toss. A drunk captain's place is at home on an armchair, where the only switches he can touch are those of a TV remote, not in the left seat anymore -- he's no back-office third-tier 1000US$-a-month admin clerk shuffling paper from filing cabinet to filing cabinet....
It's a tough life.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:07 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

I know several US airlines restricted their crews on CCS overnights. They weren't allowed to leave the hotel. I think Delta restricts crews on some of there Africa layovers.

Honestly, isn't it more for their own safety (meaning, there is a potential for the crew to be the target of a crime) than to prevent them from going to a bar?


Of course It's for safety reasons. I never said it was to keep them from bars. And I'm sure their hotel had a bar they could go to. I was just saying there is prevent of airlines putting stipulations on layovers.

So, it basically have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Gotcha!

Airlines restricting movement on a layover for employee safety is completely understandable and is actually seen as the employers doing everything they can to protect their employees.
Airlines restricting movement on a layover to avoid employees from enjoying a drink at the local water hole will be viewed as a restriction of movement; that would be illegal in most countries.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:20 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Honestly, isn't it more for their own safety (meaning, there is a potential for the crew to be the target of a crime) than to prevent them from going to a bar?


Of course It's for safety reasons. I never said it was to keep them from bars. And I'm sure their hotel had a bar they could go to. I was just saying there is prevent of airlines putting stipulations on layovers.

So, it basically have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Gotcha!

Airlines restricting movement on a layover for employee safety is completely understandable and is actually seen as the employers doing everything they can to protect their employees.
Airlines restricting movement on a layover to avoid employees from enjoying a drink at the local water hole will be viewed as a restriction of movement; that would be illegal in most countries.


It's not illegal at all. They are on company time and money during a layover and the airline has every right to set and enforce policies. Last year a US finance company issued a policy that refused to reimburse employees that don't follow a vegan diet. And it's completely legal.
 
Armodeen
Posts: 1156
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:31 pm

I am a professional and I never drink the night before duty. It really isn't hard. If I did and I was caught I would deservedly lose my career, I have very little sympathy for anyone who does.

.02 is basically a zero limit with allowances made for various medication etc that may give you a trace reading.

What Longhauler states is the way to view it IMHO; If the employee raises the issue and seeks help (or even, is referred by their own colleagues etc BEFORE they break the law) then they should be offered everything available to help them deal with what is in fact a terribly difficult thing to give up on. There is no reason they can't return to the line once rehabilitated. However if they are caught breaking the law then it is too late, it is a case for the justice system and it takes a very dim view on the subject.

Of course, this assumes the person is addicted to alcohol and hasn't just made some poor decisions.

777PHX wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
777PHX wrote:

Typical airliners.net mom's basement response.

Anyone who has a beer is satan and deserves to go to the gulag!

The UK's flying BAC limit is .02, which is absurdly low. Most people are over that after one drink.


What justification can you give us for drinking while on duty? It isn't hard to show up to work completely sober. Just don't drink on anything less than a 48 hour layover. If you can't go two days without a drink then you have a serious problem.


Again, kiddos with no idea how the adult world works...

I can almost guarantee you he wasn't drinking on duty. It was residuals from the night before.
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6223
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:50 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Longhauler dear, alcoholism is NOT a disease, like cancer, as you say. Not by a million shot. It's an addiction. Or rather, would you perhaps say then that cancer is thus an addiction??
You may want to brush up on your medical facts, because what you state is not only factually GROSSLY incorrect, but it's also extremely offensive for any cancer patient.

Whether it rates "disease" status is a common debate, but ... not really my point.

I was answering the comment above stating "aren't unions great?" The point I was making, is that unions have a lot of functions, one of those functions is to deal with pilots that are not fit to fly, for any reason. The union becomes the conduit between the employee and the company. The union also does all the "paperwork", educates both sides and works toward getting the employee back to work. In other words ... unions are great.

I agree 100% with your comments about responsibiilty. That is why I say that a responsible person takes the step before any laws are broken. But understand little can be done after laws are broken.

But let's talk about "disease". Call it what you want, but ... it IS illegal to fly with a blood alcohol level above limits. And, here's the kicker, it is also illegal to fly if dealing with some cancer drugs, some heart disease treatment or with known mental illness. Keep that a secret, (and some do) and Canadian Air Regs are broken too.

You talk about offending a cancer patient. But is a cancer patient any more deserving of sympathy? Some lifestyles cause cancer too. Heart disease as well. Are those individuals any "better" than an alcoholic?

Another point is the stigma of the reason for not being fit to fly. Tell the world you have cancer and you're everyone's hero. Tell them you suffer from mental illness or alcoholism and everyone becomes very quiet! Maybe dealing with that stigma might make more a bit more likely to come forward before laws (and responsibilities) are broken.

For the record, I am a cancer survivor. 15 years free after malignant melanoma. And for no specific reason, alcohol is just not a part of my life, it never has been. But, I help anyone that needs it. I am on the committee (joint union/company) that deals with these issues. Called P2P (peer to peer) If a pilot feels the world, or disease, or addiction is overwhelming him, he can call a toll free number, any time. There is a good chance he'll talk to me.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:18 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
longhauler wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
This is what happens when there are no consequences for your actions. He will get a paid trip to rehab for a few weeks and then right back on the line. Aren't unions great?


Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

That is why unions have "hot lines" where a pilot can call for help ... any time, anywhere. Once the alcoholism is admitted, then it is the union that advises the airline and the union starts things working. But only BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Seeing a trend yet? You see, once he has broken the law, then basically all bets are off. The union will represent him legally, they are bound to. But like any Air Regulation that is broken knowingly, the outcome is usually the same. As noted above, pilots that break the law usually end up in jail. I'd say they see the "consequences of their actions". And most pilots are aware of these consequences.

Personally, I know of only one pilot that broke the law with regard to alcohol and is back flying. That is the Northwest Airlines Captain of many years ago. His story is one of courage and strength. And it most certainly is not common.


Longhauler dear, alcoholism is NOT a disease, like cancer, as you say. Not by a million shot. It's an addiction. Or rather, would you perhaps say then that cancer is thus an addiction??
You may want to brush up on your medical facts, because what you state is not only factually GROSSLY incorrect, but it's also extremely offensive for any cancer patient.

This point aside, anyone who is in such a critically professional position (a long-haul captain) should know better than having a drink before reporting to work, in order to fly +200 souls across an ocean, under his own responsibility. If a man is not capable of performing these duties sober, then he no longer belongs to that coveted, precious, highly-paid seat, up there in the pointy bit of the jet.
You know, It's one of those crucially unique professions where you must expect only the highest standards from a professional, nothing less. Or: anything less is not enough. Same for a surgeon, or a judge. You know, there's few professions were you really do hold in your hands the lives of other people... And if you can't stay away from the bottle, no matter what, I don't want to entrust my own life onto your hands.

Am I being harsh? probably. I still don't give a toss. A drunk captain's place is at home on an armchair, where the only switches he can touch are those of a TV remote, not in the left seat anymore -- he's no back-office third-tier 1000US$-a-month admin clerk shuffling paper from filing cabinet to filing cabinet....
It's a tough life.

Well, because this is an AA employee, he is subject to american laws and definitions.

As per the American Society of Addiction Medicine, alcoholism is a disease:
Short Definition of Addiction:

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.


However, its protecting under FMLA is not a black-and-white situation. Termination of employment for substance abuse such as alcoholism seem to depend on the practice at the company; but, the way I read it, if the airline has, in the past, provided treatment under HIMS program, it seems they have to give the employee at least one chance of treatment.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:37 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
longhauler wrote:

Unions are great. And this is one of the functions ... to address a disease like alcoholism, (and cancer and heart disease, etc.) BEFORE the individual breaks the law. Unions set up rehab, give the pilot encouragement, guide him back to flying safely, BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

That is why unions have "hot lines" where a pilot can call for help ... any time, anywhere. Once the alcoholism is admitted, then it is the union that advises the airline and the union starts things working. But only BEFORE the individual breaks the law.

Seeing a trend yet? You see, once he has broken the law, then basically all bets are off. The union will represent him legally, they are bound to. But like any Air Regulation that is broken knowingly, the outcome is usually the same. As noted above, pilots that break the law usually end up in jail. I'd say they see the "consequences of their actions". And most pilots are aware of these consequences.

Personally, I know of only one pilot that broke the law with regard to alcohol and is back flying. That is the Northwest Airlines Captain of many years ago. His story is one of courage and strength. And it most certainly is not common.


Longhauler dear, alcoholism is NOT a disease, like cancer, as you say. Not by a million shot. It's an addiction. Or rather, would you perhaps say then that cancer is thus an addiction??
You may want to brush up on your medical facts, because what you state is not only factually GROSSLY incorrect, but it's also extremely offensive for any cancer patient.

This point aside, anyone who is in such a critically professional position (a long-haul captain) should know better than having a drink before reporting to work, in order to fly +200 souls across an ocean, under his own responsibility. If a man is not capable of performing these duties sober, then he no longer belongs to that coveted, precious, highly-paid seat, up there in the pointy bit of the jet.
You know, It's one of those crucially unique professions where you must expect only the highest standards from a professional, nothing less. Or: anything less is not enough. Same for a surgeon, or a judge. You know, there's few professions were you really do hold in your hands the lives of other people... And if you can't stay away from the bottle, no matter what, I don't want to entrust my own life onto your hands.

Am I being harsh? probably. I still don't give a toss. A drunk captain's place is at home on an armchair, where the only switches he can touch are those of a TV remote, not in the left seat anymore -- he's no back-office third-tier 1000US$-a-month admin clerk shuffling paper from filing cabinet to filing cabinet....
It's a tough life.

Well, because this is an AA employee, he is subject to american laws and definitions.

As per the American Society of Addiction Medicine, alcoholism is a disease:
Short Definition of Addiction:

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.


However, its protecting under FMLA is not a black-and-white situation. Termination of employment for substance abuse such as alcoholism seem to depend on the practice at the company; but, the way I read it, if the airline has, in the past, provided treatment under HIMS program, it seems they have to give the employee at least one chance of treatment.


Why don't you quit while you're ahead? That AA pilot is also subject to the laws of the UK. He committed a crime in their country and they have every right to punish him. If they give him a prison sentence like they have with previous drunk pilots then he will most certainly lose his license. If the FAA pulls your certificate then the airline has no choice but to fire you. Delta may have kept those two pilots who overflew MSP but the FAA yanked their certificates and Delta was left without a say in the matter. And that's a good thing. The FAA at least does the right thing sometimes.

Why do you care so much about intoxicated pilots?
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:54 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:

Longhauler dear, alcoholism is NOT a disease, like cancer, as you say. Not by a million shot. It's an addiction. Or rather, would you perhaps say then that cancer is thus an addiction??
You may want to brush up on your medical facts, because what you state is not only factually GROSSLY incorrect, but it's also extremely offensive for any cancer patient.

This point aside, anyone who is in such a critically professional position (a long-haul captain) should know better than having a drink before reporting to work, in order to fly +200 souls across an ocean, under his own responsibility. If a man is not capable of performing these duties sober, then he no longer belongs to that coveted, precious, highly-paid seat, up there in the pointy bit of the jet.
You know, It's one of those crucially unique professions where you must expect only the highest standards from a professional, nothing less. Or: anything less is not enough. Same for a surgeon, or a judge. You know, there's few professions were you really do hold in your hands the lives of other people... And if you can't stay away from the bottle, no matter what, I don't want to entrust my own life onto your hands.

Am I being harsh? probably. I still don't give a toss. A drunk captain's place is at home on an armchair, where the only switches he can touch are those of a TV remote, not in the left seat anymore -- he's no back-office third-tier 1000US$-a-month admin clerk shuffling paper from filing cabinet to filing cabinet....
It's a tough life.

Well, because this is an AA employee, he is subject to american laws and definitions.

As per the American Society of Addiction Medicine, alcoholism is a disease:
Short Definition of Addiction:

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.


However, its protecting under FMLA is not a black-and-white situation. Termination of employment for substance abuse such as alcoholism seem to depend on the practice at the company; but, the way I read it, if the airline has, in the past, provided treatment under HIMS program, it seems they have to give the employee at least one chance of treatment.


Why don't you quit while you're ahead? That AA pilot is also subject to the laws of the UK. He committed a crime in their country and they have every right to punish him. If they give him a prison sentence like they have with previous drunk pilots then he will most certainly lose his license. If the FAA pulls your certificate then the airline has no choice but to fire you. Delta may have kept those two pilots who overflew MSP but the FAA yanked their certificates and Delta was left without a say in the matter. And that's a good thing. The FAA at least does the right thing sometimes.


The UK does not cover his employment; his employment is covered by US laws.
He broke the law in the UK, and will pay for it in the UK, as per UK laws; the UK cannot pull his US licence, can they?
Then, the matter will be dealt with in the US, according to US laws (including potential FMLA if applicable); maybe he will lose his job, maybe he won't.

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why do you care so much about intoxicated pilots?

Why do you want so much to hang them in public place? You've been doing that for this thread, and for the DL pilots at AMS.
Let due diligence runs its course; unless you are their superior, you have no dog in the fight. There are laws in place to protect the public against impaired pilots; there are also laws in place to protect those who seek help.

You seem so hellbent to see those pilots fired. I'm sure you've driven impaired before; even if you didn't drive a bus, your actions on the road could have lead to an accident killing many people. But, if you were caught driving under the influence, you'd be the first to ask for clemency and not lose your driving privilege for life at the first offence.
Same applies here. Whenever there is a human involved, the situation is never black-or-white.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:03 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Well, because this is an AA employee, he is subject to american laws and definitions.

As per the American Society of Addiction Medicine, alcoholism is a disease:


However, its protecting under FMLA is not a black-and-white situation. Termination of employment for substance abuse such as alcoholism seem to depend on the practice at the company; but, the way I read it, if the airline has, in the past, provided treatment under HIMS program, it seems they have to give the employee at least one chance of treatment.


Why don't you quit while you're ahead? That AA pilot is also subject to the laws of the UK. He committed a crime in their country and they have every right to punish him. If they give him a prison sentence like they have with previous drunk pilots then he will most certainly lose his license. If the FAA pulls your certificate then the airline has no choice but to fire you. Delta may have kept those two pilots who overflew MSP but the FAA yanked their certificates and Delta was left without a say in the matter. And that's a good thing. The FAA at least does the right thing sometimes.


The UK does not cover his employment; his employment is covered by US laws.
He broke the law in the UK, and will pay for it in the UK, as per UK laws; the UK cannot pull his US licence, can they?
Then, the matter will be dealt with in the US, according to US laws (including potential FMLA if applicable); maybe he will lose his job, maybe he won't.

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why do you care so much about intoxicated pilots?

Why do you want so much to hang them in public place? You've been doing that for this thread, and for the DL pilots at AMS.
Let due diligence runs its course; unless you are their superior, you have no dog in the fight. There are laws in place to protect the public against impaired pilots; there are also laws in place to protect those who seek help.

You seem so hellbent to see those pilots fired. I'm sure you've driven impaired before; even if you didn't drive a bus, your actions on the road could have lead to an accident killing many people. But, if you were caught driving under the influence, you'd be the first to ask for clemency and not lose your driving privilege for life at the first offence.
Same applies here. Whenever there is a human involved, the situation is never black-or-white.


I have never driven intoxicated. In my state it is a crime to even ride a bicycle while intoxicated. And who are you to make such a serious allegation? You don't know me and have no right to make such a claim. I guess I just take public safety a lot more seriously than you do. My job has nothing to do with transportation but I would most certainly be fired if I ever got a DUI. It shows a complete lack of character and nor stars for the law. If someone does something that reckless then who knows what else they are up to. And this is most certainly my business. The public has the right be assured that the FAA isn't allowing drunk pilots to be in command of an aircraft. It's time they clean house because it seems the airline is afraid to discipline employees because of the unions.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: AA pilot arrested at MAN believed to be over alcohol lmit

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:12 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Why don't you quit while you're ahead? That AA pilot is also subject to the laws of the UK. He committed a crime in their country and they have every right to punish him. If they give him a prison sentence like they have with previous drunk pilots then he will most certainly lose his license. If the FAA pulls your certificate then the airline has no choice but to fire you. Delta may have kept those two pilots who overflew MSP but the FAA yanked their certificates and Delta was left without a say in the matter. And that's a good thing. The FAA at least does the right thing sometimes.


The UK does not cover his employment; his employment is covered by US laws.
He broke the law in the UK, and will pay for it in the UK, as per UK laws; the UK cannot pull his US licence, can they?
Then, the matter will be dealt with in the US, according to US laws (including potential FMLA if applicable); maybe he will lose his job, maybe he won't.

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why do you care so much about intoxicated pilots?

Why do you want so much to hang them in public place? You've been doing that for this thread, and for the DL pilots at AMS.
Let due diligence runs its course; unless you are their superior, you have no dog in the fight. There are laws in place to protect the public against impaired pilots; there are also laws in place to protect those who seek help.

You seem so hellbent to see those pilots fired. I'm sure you've driven impaired before; even if you didn't drive a bus, your actions on the road could have lead to an accident killing many people. But, if you were caught driving under the influence, you'd be the first to ask for clemency and not lose your driving privilege for life at the first offence.
Same applies here. Whenever there is a human involved, the situation is never black-or-white.


I have never driven intoxicated. In my state it is a crime to even ride a bicycle while intoxicated. And who are you to make such a serious allegation? You don't know me and have no right to make such a claim. I guess I just take public safety a lot more seriously than you do. My job has nothing to do with transportation but I would most certainly be fired if I ever got a DUI. It shows a complete lack of character and nor stars for the law. If someone does something that reckless then who knows what else they are up to. And this is most certainly my business. The public has the right be assured that the FAA isn't allowing drunk pilots to be in command of an aircraft. It's time they clean house because it seems the airline is afraid to discipline employees because of the unions.

Remember, intoxication does not solely come from drinking alcohol. So, never say never, unless you use a breath analyzer every single time.

In any case, you are obviously the most law abiding citizen. Good for you.

You appear unable to make any distinction between black and white in life; I'd hate to do business with you or even work with you (let alone work for you).
Real life isn't as clear cut as you want it to be; that's why we have judges and not computers handing verdicts.

That being said, let's agree to disagree. I won't respond to you anymore on this thread.

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