77H
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:18 am

RWA380 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

You are correct, The Japanese Society of Oregon has many culturally diverse programs with Oregon. Portland's sister city is Kyoto Japan & years ago, a wildly popular Japanese TV series called "From Oregon with Love" was what sparked the above average Japanese tourism here. It's one of those unique things about Portland & Oregon that bucks the trend.

The issue does remain, that in fact our government is looking at what routes benefit the American flyers & not inbound tourists. Requests like LAS on AA is on par with DL to HNL. The only reason HA got their last HND slot was that no other carrier would or could use it, not because they turned the DOT's minds on tourism as a metric for the route authority.


You don’t know that. You assume that, but dont know that. So stop passing it off as fact...I think it’s the second time now on this thread alone


I don't know what? I spoke of many different things, yet you go off half cocked with some general statement as if you are an authority, so please enlighten me. If you are referring to the government using the benefit to American travelers, it was certainly is a metric that was used, the last time HND routes were awarded, Why would that have changed this time?


RWA, my recollection of HA’s slot awards are very similar to your statements. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall some, if not all of the “US3” carriers mentioning that exact argument in their statements to the DOT. It was well known that primary POS was going to be in Japan. Nevertheless HA was awarded the slot and went on to be the only carrier to operate the route with no service disruptions, downgauges etc. When day time slots became available the same arguments were made by the US3. HA was awarded slots but not in line with their full request which was for HNL and KOA to operate daily, concurrently.

AirPortugal, just because you work for HA doesn’t automatically make you the foremost authority on all things Hawaiian. I frequently see you lashing out at people in threads concerning HA and injecting your opinions or understandings as fact. I remember a thread about a year ago where you lashed out at a poster who said UA was larger than HA to and from the mainland. I recall about 5 posters, myself included providing you factual evidence to the contrary of your aggressively dealt claim that it was in fact HA.

RWA worked in the Hawaii travel industry when HA was little more than an interisland carrier, not the Pacific powerhouse you work for today. He brings a lot of historical insight to threads regarding HA and Hawaii aviation at large. I enjoy reading his contributions to this forum and he has never struck me as the type of poster to spot off nonsense. So ease off the hostilities and show a little more aloha.

77H
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5468
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:20 pm

77H wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:

You don’t know that. You assume that, but dont know that. So stop passing it off as fact...I think it’s the second time now on this thread alone


I don't know what? I spoke of many different things, yet you go off half cocked with some general statement as if you are an authority, so please enlighten me. If you are referring to the government using the benefit to American travelers, it was certainly is a metric that was used, the last time HND routes were awarded, Why would that have changed this time?


RWA, my recollection of HA’s slot awards are very similar to your statements. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall some, if not all of the “US3” carriers mentioning that exact argument in their statements to the DOT. It was well known that primary POS was going to be in Japan. Nevertheless HA was awarded the slot and went on to be the only carrier to operate the route with no service disruptions, downgauges etc. When day time slots became available the same arguments were made by the US3. HA was awarded slots but not in line with their full request which was for HNL and KOA to operate daily, concurrently.

AirPortugal, just because you work for HA doesn’t automatically make you the foremost authority on all things Hawaiian. I frequently see you lashing out at people in threads concerning HA and injecting your opinions or understandings as fact. I remember a thread about a year ago where you lashed out at a poster who said UA was larger than HA to and from the mainland. I recall about 5 posters, myself included providing you factual evidence to the contrary of your aggressively dealt claim that it was in fact HA.

RWA worked in the Hawaii travel industry when HA was little more than an interisland carrier, not the Pacific powerhouse you work for today. He brings a lot of historical insight to threads regarding HA and Hawaii aviation at large. I enjoy reading his contributions to this forum and he has never struck me as the type of poster to spot off nonsense. So ease off the hostilities and show a little more aloha.

77H


I appreciate the kind words. I may over simplify from time to time, but I do not seek out conflict or to be misunderstood. HA is an awesome carrier that gets my money, I often have wished that the powers that be should give inbound tourism a metric to be used in deciding these type of things & as 77H pointed out, HA can use & excel even with the less than ideal times they originally obtained. AA nor DL could do that with the last slot. So kudos to HA for thriving where others failed. I hope that fact alone would have the DOT paying attention to HA's application.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1083
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:43 pm

77H wrote:
RWA, my recollection of HA’s slot awards are very similar to your statements. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall some, if not all of the “US3” carriers mentioning that exact argument in their statements to the DOT. It was well known that primary POS was going to be in Japan. Nevertheless HA was awarded the slot and went on to be the only carrier to operate the route with no service disruptions, downgauges etc. When day time slots became available the same arguments were made by the US3. HA was awarded slots but not in line with their full request which was for HNL and KOA to operate daily, concurrently.


DL and AA had many changes to HND service, but UA did not. They’ve been eager to offer service and when they finally won a slot they delivered.

I still think that the US3 have long provided far more service to the TYO market and should be awarded all of the new slots. The Hawaii market isn’t worth using these precious slots on given that it’s almost entirely Japan POS leisure traffics. Just ramp up NRT service. It will do fine.
 
77H
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:56 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
77H wrote:
RWA, my recollection of HA’s slot awards are very similar to your statements. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall some, if not all of the “US3” carriers mentioning that exact argument in their statements to the DOT. It was well known that primary POS was going to be in Japan. Nevertheless HA was awarded the slot and went on to be the only carrier to operate the route with no service disruptions, downgauges etc. When day time slots became available the same arguments were made by the US3. HA was awarded slots but not in line with their full request which was for HNL and KOA to operate daily, concurrently.


DL and AA had many changes to HND service, but UA did not. They’ve been eager to offer service and when they finally won a slot they delivered.

I still think that the US3 have long provided far more service to the TYO market and should be awarded all of the new slots. The Hawaii market isn’t worth using these precious slots on given that it’s almost entirely Japan POS leisure traffics. Just ramp up NRT service. It will do fine.


So by extension you believe DL shouldn’t be able to use the slots for beyond flights and AA shouldn’t be able to use them for LAS correct? Since those highly favor JP point of sale?

77H
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5468
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:46 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
77H wrote:
RWA, my recollection of HA’s slot awards are very similar to your statements. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall some, if not all of the “US3” carriers mentioning that exact argument in their statements to the DOT. It was well known that primary POS was going to be in Japan. Nevertheless HA was awarded the slot and went on to be the only carrier to operate the route with no service disruptions, downgauges etc. When day time slots became available the same arguments were made by the US3. HA was awarded slots but not in line with their full request which was for HNL and KOA to operate daily, concurrently.


DL and AA had many changes to HND service, but UA did not. They’ve been eager to offer service and when they finally won a slot they delivered.

I still think that the US3 have long provided far more service to the TYO market and should be awarded all of the new slots. The Hawaii market isn’t worth using these precious slots on given that it’s almost entirely Japan POS leisure traffics. Just ramp up NRT service. It will do fine.


I disagree with this, the fact that HA can offer both HND & NRT to HNL currently & fill those aircraft, show that Tokyo is very spread out & there is enough demand from two different parts of Tokyo to fill multiple daily A-332's. I would hope that our government can see the incoming tourist dollars to tourism dependent areas of our country, is indeed a benefit to working America. Hawaii & Vegas are great examples. UA has more HND access with NH & does AA with JL. DL is placing their cards with KE at ICN & will have more than enough connectivity to all of Asia. I think all of the applications have merit & no one carrier deserves the lions share of slots, but they should instead try to honor requests from multiple carriers.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
User avatar
jbpdx
Posts: 718
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:43 am

DL PDX-HND; everything else, whatever.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1083
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:24 am

RWA380 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
77H wrote:
RWA, my recollection of HA’s slot awards are very similar to your statements. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall some, if not all of the “US3” carriers mentioning that exact argument in their statements to the DOT. It was well known that primary POS was going to be in Japan. Nevertheless HA was awarded the slot and went on to be the only carrier to operate the route with no service disruptions, downgauges etc. When day time slots became available the same arguments were made by the US3. HA was awarded slots but not in line with their full request which was for HNL and KOA to operate daily, concurrently.


DL and AA had many changes to HND service, but UA did not. They’ve been eager to offer service and when they finally won a slot they delivered.

I still think that the US3 have long provided far more service to the TYO market and should be awarded all of the new slots. The Hawaii market isn’t worth using these precious slots on given that it’s almost entirely Japan POS leisure traffics. Just ramp up NRT service. It will do fine.


I disagree with this, the fact that HA can offer both HND & NRT to HNL currently & fill those aircraft, show that Tokyo is very spread out & there is enough demand from two different parts of Tokyo to fill multiple daily A-332's. I would hope that our government can see the incoming tourist dollars to tourism dependent areas of our country, is indeed a benefit to working America. Hawaii & Vegas are great examples. UA has more HND access with NH & does AA with JL. DL is placing their cards with KE at ICN & will have more than enough connectivity to all of Asia. I think all of the applications have merit & no one carrier deserves the lions share of slots, but they should instead try to honor requests from multiple carriers.


These slots are most valuable for business O&D travel to Tokyo because of HND’s location. It has less to do with Tokyo connecting strategy although there will be some of that. If HA gets one slot its not the end of the world, but more than one is a complete waste as there is plenty of access via NRT. I never suggested they should honor requests from only one carrier.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5468
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:18 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

DL and AA had many changes to HND service, but UA did not. They’ve been eager to offer service and when they finally won a slot they delivered.

I still think that the US3 have long provided far more service to the TYO market and should be awarded all of the new slots. The Hawaii market isn’t worth using these precious slots on given that it’s almost entirely Japan POS leisure traffics. Just ramp up NRT service. It will do fine.


I disagree with this, the fact that HA can offer both HND & NRT to HNL currently & fill those aircraft, show that Tokyo is very spread out & there is enough demand from two different parts of Tokyo to fill multiple daily A-332's. I would hope that our government can see the incoming tourist dollars to tourism dependent areas of our country, is indeed a benefit to working America. Hawaii & Vegas are great examples. UA has more HND access with NH & does AA with JL. DL is placing their cards with KE at ICN & will have more than enough connectivity to all of Asia. I think all of the applications have merit & no one carrier deserves the lions share of slots, but they should instead try to honor requests from multiple carriers.


These slots are most valuable for business O&D travel to Tokyo because of HND’s location. It has less to do with Tokyo connecting strategy although there will be some of that. If HA gets one slot its not the end of the world, but more than one is a complete waste as there is plenty of access via NRT. I never suggested they should honor requests from only one carrier.


You are correct, you did not suggest honoring requests from one carrier, I should have been clear I was responding to multiple arguments prior to your comment that suggest, their favorite XX carrier should garner most of the slots, mostly DL fanboys. I think honoring a slot request to HA would be a good way of showing that the DOT appreciates HA using their current compliment of slots. Isn't HA creating a JV or some tie up with JL, that goes beyond just ticketing?
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
ITSTours
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:06 am

http://www.shugiintv.go.jp/jp/index.php ... edia_type= (Japanese Diet, video in Japanese)
Japanese Diet member disagrees with the Minister of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism (Japan).

So it is confirmed that 12 slots for the Japanese airlines are all for the US routes.
We can safely assume JAL and ANA each gets at least 5 (most likely 6-6).

This sort of guarantees at least 4 slots for Delta. More difficult for United to get 4. Let's see.
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:19 pm

Op-Ed with the opinion that United offers the best opportunity and public benefit for use of HND slots as its proposing to operate 3 additional frequencies, not just shift existing service from NRT to HND.

https://atwonline.com/airports-routes/o ... kyo-routes
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:12 pm

UPlog wrote:
Op-Ed with the opinion that United offers the best opportunity and public benefit for use of HND slots as its proposing to operate 3 additional frequencies, not just shift existing service from NRT to HND.

https://atwonline.com/airports-routes/o ... kyo-routes


The Op-Ed was written by United.

It is hardly definitive.
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:17 pm

ldvaviation wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Op-Ed with the opinion that United offers the best opportunity and public benefit for use of HND slots as its proposing to operate 3 additional frequencies, not just shift existing service from NRT to HND.

https://atwonline.com/airports-routes/o ... kyo-routes


The Op-Ed was written by United.

It is hardly definitive.


You can shoot the messenger but you should refute the contents of the op-ed. Looks like UA has a pretty compelling argument here.

"United’s proposed daily flights from Newark, Los Angeles and Guam would supplement our existing daily flights between those hubs and Tokyo Narita airport. Our plan would add 350,000 annual seats to Tokyo, nearly four times more than American Airlines or Delta Air Lines. Our plan demonstrates our confidence in demand from our hubs to both Tokyo airports. United is the only applicant in the DOT process that acknowledges the importance of both Tokyo airports to US-Japan and Asia travelers, and only United provided a comprehensive plan to serve both airports. "
Every zoo is a petting zoo......if you're a man!
 
questions
Posts: 1955
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:26 pm

When is a decision on the HND slots expected?
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2113
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:17 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
ldvaviation wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Op-Ed with the opinion that United offers the best opportunity and public benefit for use of HND slots as its proposing to operate 3 additional frequencies, not just shift existing service from NRT to HND.

https://atwonline.com/airports-routes/o ... kyo-routes


The Op-Ed was written by United.

It is hardly definitive.


You can shoot the messenger but you should refute the contents of the op-ed. Looks like UA has a pretty compelling argument here.

"United’s proposed daily flights from Newark, Los Angeles and Guam would supplement our existing daily flights between those hubs and Tokyo Narita airport. Our plan would add 350,000 annual seats to Tokyo, nearly four times more than American Airlines or Delta Air Lines. Our plan demonstrates our confidence in demand from our hubs to both Tokyo airports. United is the only applicant in the DOT process that acknowledges the importance of both Tokyo airports to US-Japan and Asia travelers, and only United provided a comprehensive plan to serve both airports. "


Perhaps, but it isn't hard to imagine a scenario where those flights are dropped (the minute an economic downturn hits, they're gone). Moreover, it fails to account for the (high) probability that flights will be cancelled absent a move to HND by DL in particular, but AA as well.
 
ITSTours
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:34 pm

Japanese government and airlines are more concerned about the domestic slot redistribution as the current assignments will be expired Jan 2020. Currently there are no discussion about how those 12 slots will be given to ANA and JAL.

I don't know when those discussion emerges whether they warrant a separate thread or not.
 
c933103
Posts: 3790
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:24 pm

ITSTours wrote:
Japanese government and airlines are more concerned about the domestic slot redistribution as the current assignments will be expired Jan 2020. Currently there are no discussion about how those 12 slots will be given to ANA and JAL.

I don't know when those discussion emerges whether they warrant a separate thread or not.

Last time I read they will be reallocating some slots that are currently used for domestic flights toward Asian international flights instead?
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
RushmoreAir
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:29 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 9:47 pm

Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX
NW UA DL F9 CO WN LO QF FI AC MU CA EU LH LX DY B6 AA HA NZ MW HU U2 SK AF EK IB HX WS G4 AZ IG 4B

The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
Ishrion
Posts: 909
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 9:51 pm

RushmoreAir wrote:
Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX


Well looks like the airlines got their first picks. Unfortunate that AA won't be starting LAS-HND I suppose.

Also has it been out for the past 3 days? Surprising that no one's gotten to it until now.
Last edited by Ishrion on Thu May 16, 2019 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 9:57 pm

RushmoreAir wrote:
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)


Does DL close down shop at NRT now?
Every zoo is a petting zoo......if you're a man!
 
carljanderson
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 9:59 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
RushmoreAir wrote:
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)


Does DL close down shop at NRT now?

Yes.

I'd be shocked if they don't.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2113
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 10:02 pm

Ishrion wrote:
RushmoreAir wrote:
Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX


Well looks like the airlines got their first picks. Unfortunate that AA won't be starting LAS-HND I suppose.

Also has it been out for the past 3 days? Surprising that no one's gotten to it until now.


It was just posted today per the link.
 
ITSTours
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 10:03 pm

RushmoreAir wrote:
Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX


This is in line with almost everybody's guess.
 
RushmoreAir
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:29 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 10:04 pm

Ishrion wrote:

Also has it been out for the past 3 days? Surprising that no one's gotten to it until now.


DOT has a weird date convention ... this order was actually released to airlines this afternoon and posted on regulations.gov at 5pm Eastern. Actual PDF order itself is dated today, 5/16.

Now airlines and other interested parties have two weeks to submit the last round of objections/comments before the ruling becomes final. In this specific instance, we're technically also waiting on the Japanese gov't to approve the overall expansion, but I think that should eventually just be a rubber stamp.
NW UA DL F9 CO WN LO QF FI AC MU CA EU LH LX DY B6 AA HA NZ MW HU U2 SK AF EK IB HX WS G4 AZ IG 4B

The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2098
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 10:09 pm

100% they will bail.

More ICN flights and maybe 1-2 token flights to NRT if needed. Doubt it.

Congrats to pdx. I’ll use that flight
 
Delta28L
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 10:45 pm

RushmoreAir wrote:
Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX


Surprised that PDX got service and not MSP
 
panamair
Posts: 4088
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 10:49 pm

Delta28L wrote:
RushmoreAir wrote:
Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX


Surprised that PDX got service and not MSP


Delta already flies HND-MSP now with the 777. It also operates HND-LAX now (A333 now but 777 this coming winter).
 
x1234
Posts: 492
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 10:49 pm

It looks like DL got its wish and this is the end of NRT-SIN/MNL!
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 pm

RushmoreAir wrote:
Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX


Good deal.

Seems the big winners are DL and UA.

AA only received half of its request including adding new gateway of LAS, while HA only receives single additional frequency when it sought more.

I think DOT took kindly to UA as it stated most of the HND flying would be additional capacity, and not come at the expense of dropping NRT routes. Smart move.

And yes, I think DL is done at NRT. Interestingly only this week in an interview with Market Place, Ed Bastian referred to ICN as a DL hub, so its clear what the internal thinking is about the carrier's position in Asia moving forward..
Last edited by janders on Thu May 16, 2019 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
georgiabill
Posts: 1183
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 10:54 pm

I do not understand why DL deserves more route authorities than UA or AA. AA should have atleast gotten 3 authorities and started service from LAS. I hope AA challenges this ruling.
 
cessna2
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:16 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 11:04 pm

x1234 wrote:
It looks like DL got its wish and this is the end of NRT-SIN/MNL!

I wouldn't go that far yet. DL is currently looking at serving them non-stop from SEA.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 11:16 pm

georgiabill wrote:
I do not understand why DL deserves more route authorities than UA or AA. AA should have atleast gotten 3 authorities and started service from LAS. I hope AA challenges this ruling.


I'm sorry, but AA completely capitulated. The fact that they did not even try applying for ORD-HND speaks volumes.
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 11:22 pm

AA did not get the LAS gateway.


janders wrote:
RushmoreAir wrote:
Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX


Good deal.

Seems the big winners are DL and UA.

AA only received half of its request including adding new gateway of LAS, while HA only receives single additional frequency when it sought more.

I think DOT took kindly to UA as it stated most of the HND flying would be additional capacity, and not come at the expense of dropping NRT routes. Smart move.

And yes, I think DL is done at NRT. Interestingly only this week in an interview with Market Place, Ed Bastian referred to ICN as a DL hub, so its clear what the internal thinking is about the carrier's position in Asia moving forward..
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5421
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 11:23 pm

cessna2 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
It looks like DL got its wish and this is the end of NRT-SIN/MNL!

I wouldn't go that far yet. DL is currently looking at serving them non-stop from SEA.

Got a source for that?

SEA-SIN strikes me as wholly improbable with SQ on the route. IMHO the reconfigged 777/77L and 359s all have too many premium seats to work SEA-MNL.
 
winginit
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 11:37 pm

georgiabill wrote:
I do not understand why DL deserves more route authorities than UA or AA. AA should have atleast gotten 3 authorities and started service from LAS. I hope AA challenges this ruling.


LAS was a throwaway bid from AA just like #2 HNL was a throwaway bid from DL. If AA truly wanted more they would have applied for ORD, but they didn't.
 
77H
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 11:38 pm

I’m surprised the DoT granted DL a slot for HNL. DL was one of the airlines who fiercely opposed HA getting its initial slots to serve HND. With DL coming onboard that’s 3 airlines operating HND-HNL, 4 if JL reapplied for a slot to serve HNL. AA should come out swinging against that route. While I don’t think Hawaii should be overlooked simply because it’s primarily leisure/VFR traffic that favors JP POS, I do think having 3 carriers on the route is overkill especial considering quite a few carriers were not awarded slots to operate brand new routes such as HND-LAS.

77H
 
cessna2
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:16 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Thu May 16, 2019 11:49 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
cessna2 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
It looks like DL got its wish and this is the end of NRT-SIN/MNL!

I wouldn't go that far yet. DL is currently looking at serving them non-stop from SEA.

Got a source for that?

SEA-SIN strikes me as wholly improbable with SQ on the route. IMHO the reconfigged 777/77L and 359s all have too many premium seats to work SEA-MNL.

VP of Network planning.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2493
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 12:13 am

georgiabill wrote:
I do not understand why DL deserves more route authorities than UA or AA. AA should have atleast gotten 3 authorities and started service from LAS. I hope AA challenges this ruling.


AA has JL to supplement their offering. If the AA/JL JV is really intent on serving the LAS-HND market, JL can include that route in their likely 5-6 new HND-U.S. frequencies, along with moving their DFW-NRT flight to HND if the JV needs more HND capacity from DFW. I'd also expect JL to move their daily ORD-NRT flight to HND (perhaps with AA returning to daily on ORD-NRT), along with moving some combination of SEA, SAN, BOS, or HNL to HND.

UA is arguably the biggest winner here, as their metal-neutral JV partner NH will almost certainly be allocated at least 6 HND-U.S. frequencies in addition to UA's 4. That will put UA/NH comfortably in the leading position in the U.S.-TYO market (they're already the leader, but this will put distance between them and AA/JL), followed by AA/JL, with DL being able to maintain a fairly respectable presence in the TYO market thanks to their 5 additional awards.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 12:32 am

[threeid][/threeid]
cessna2 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
It looks like DL got its wish and this is the end of NRT-SIN/MNL!

I wouldn't go that far yet. DL is currently looking at serving them non-stop from SEA.


But x1234 is right.... ex-NRT westbound will be zeroed out. New service to MNL and SIN from SEA doesn't change ex-NRT=0 westbound.
 
tpaewr
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 12:39 am

RushmoreAir wrote:
Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX


Has UA ever served HND before or only CO?
 
klm617
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 12:48 am

cessna2 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
It looks like DL got its wish and this is the end of NRT-SIN/MNL!

I wouldn't go that far yet. DL is currently looking at serving them non-stop from SEA.


I think we will see something more like SEA-KIX-SIN and DTW-NGO-MNL. If they can't make SEA-HKG work I highly doubt SIN ans MNL are viable from SEA.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
FSDan
Posts: 2493
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 12:49 am

FSDan wrote:
So I guess I'm trying to look at what the overall picture might look like in the U.S.-TYO market when all is said and done. If the best case scenario happened for DL (all 6 frequencies awarded) and the DOT split the other 6 evenly between UA and AA, you could have something like this:
SEA-HND (1x NH + 1x JL + 1x DL)
PDX-HND (1x DL)
SFO-NRT (1x UA)
SFO-HND (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL)
SJC-HND (1x NH)
LAX-NRT (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL + 1x SQ)
LAX-HND (2x NH + 2x AA + 1x DL)
SAN-HND (1x JL)
LAS-HND (1x JL)
DEN-NRT (1x UA)
IAH-NRT (1x UA)
IAH-HND (1x NH)
DFW-NRT (1x JL)
DFW-HND (2x AA)
MSP-HND (1x DL)
ORD-NRT (1x NH + 1x JL)
ORD-HND (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL)
DTW-HND (1x DL)
ATL-HND (1x DL)
IAD-NRT (1x NH)
IAD-HND (1x UA)
EWR-NRT (1x UA)
EWR-HND (1x UA)
JFK-NRT (1x NH + 1x JL)
JFK-HND (1x NH + 1x JL)
BOS-HND (1x JL)
HNL-NRT (2x NH + 4x JL + 1x HA)
HNL-HND (1x NH + 1x JL + 1.6x HA + 2x DL)
KOA-NRT (1x JL)
KOA-HND (0.4x HA)
GUM-HND (1x NH)

In other permutations where DL doesn't get their full award, just shuffle the above flights around between carriers. For example, maybe HA ends up with 2.6x HNL-HND and DL with 1x HNL-HND. Maybe UA/NH get fewer awards than AA/JL and ORD ends up being split ORD-NRT 1x UA, ORD-HND 2x NH, with AA flying LAS-HND instead of JL, JL adding a HNL frequency instead of LAS, and NH not flying to GUM from HND... There are lots of ways this could shake out, but I do hope DL gets 5 or 6 of their requests when looking at the overall U.S.-TYO picture.


Given these tentative awards, I think the above overall picture of the U.S.-TYO market could still end up being fairly accurate, with a few changes:
  • DL only gets 1x HNL-HND, with HA picking up an additional HNL-HND as well for a total of 2.6x daily on HA and 1x on DL. I think JL still adds at least one daily HNL-HND as well.
  • AA only gets 1x DFW-HND award. I'm going to go ahead and say that JL maintains their daily DFW flight from NRT, given that the DFW-TYO O&D isn't huge. I'll also say that AA operates ORD-NRT instead of JL given that AA will probably need to keep NRT open as a station anyway at this point.
  • UA gets awarded LAX-HND. So maybe NH just stays at 1x daily on LAX-HND and drops their 2nd daily LAX-NRT flight since UA will also continue operating LAX-NRT. That would give the UA/NH JV 2x daily from LAX to each TYO airport. Then again, maybe UA adds their LAX-HND flight and NH moves their 2nd daily LAX-NRT to LAX-HND, giving the JV 5x daily in LAX-TYO (NH is going to have to dump their awards somewhere...).

So here's my updated estimate of the full picture as of next summer:
SEA-HND (1x NH + 1x JL + 1x DL)
PDX-HND (1x DL)
SFO-NRT (1x UA)
SFO-HND (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL)
SJC-HND (1x NH)
LAX-NRT (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL + 1x SQ)
LAX-HND (1x UA + 2x NH + 2x AA + 1x DL)
SAN-HND (1x JL)
LAS-HND (1x JL)
DEN-NRT (1x UA)
IAH-NRT (1x UA)
IAH-HND (1x NH)
DFW-NRT (1x AA + 1x JL)
DFW-HND (1x AA)
MSP-HND (1x DL)
ORD-NRT (1x NH + 1x AA)
ORD-HND (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL)
DTW-HND (1x DL)
ATL-HND (1x DL)
IAD-NRT (1x NH)
IAD-HND (1x UA)
EWR-NRT (1x UA)
EWR-HND (1x UA)
JFK-NRT (1x NH + 1x JL)
JFK-HND (1x NH + 1x JL)
BOS-HND (1x JL)
HNL-NRT (2x NH + 4x JL + 1x HA)
HNL-HND (1x NH + 1x JL + 2.6x HA + 1x DL)
KOA-NRT (1x JL)
KOA-HND (0.4x HA)
GUM-HND (1x NH)
Last edited by FSDan on Fri May 17, 2019 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
lhpdx
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 12:49 am

Congratulation to PDX!!! I wonder if Delta will add a few connecting flights to support this daily service?
 
klm617
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 12:50 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
cessna2 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
It looks like DL got its wish and this is the end of NRT-SIN/MNL!

I wouldn't go that far yet. DL is currently looking at serving them non-stop from SEA.

Got a source for that?

SEA-SIN strikes me as wholly improbable with SQ on the route. IMHO the reconfigged 777/77L and 359s all have too many premium seats to work SEA-MNL.


A339 on DTW-NGO-MNL
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13831
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 12:53 am

If I recall correctly from UA’s application ORD and IAD will be a shift of existing NRT flights to HND. EWR and LAX will be new adds that will be in addition to the existing NRT flights.

ORD 772, LAX 787–10, EWR 772, IAD 772.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 559
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 12:55 am

tpaewr wrote:
RushmoreAir wrote:
Order to show cause is out!

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0014-0079

Tentative allocations:
AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX


Has UA ever served HND before or only CO?


I’m pretty sure CO never served HND.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13831
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 1:04 am

FSDan wrote:
FSDan wrote:
So I guess I'm trying to look at what the overall picture might look like in the U.S.-TYO market when all is said and done. If the best case scenario happened for DL (all 6 frequencies awarded) and the DOT split the other 6 evenly between UA and AA, you could have something like this:
SEA-HND (1x NH + 1x JL + 1x DL)
PDX-HND (1x DL)
SFO-NRT (1x UA)
SFO-HND (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL)
SJC-HND (1x NH)
LAX-NRT (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL + 1x SQ)
LAX-HND (2x NH + 2x AA + 1x DL)
SAN-HND (1x JL)
LAS-HND (1x JL)
DEN-NRT (1x UA)
IAH-NRT (1x UA)
IAH-HND (1x NH)
DFW-NRT (1x JL)
DFW-HND (2x AA)
MSP-HND (1x DL)
ORD-NRT (1x NH + 1x JL)
ORD-HND (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL)
DTW-HND (1x DL)
ATL-HND (1x DL)
IAD-NRT (1x NH)
IAD-HND (1x UA)
EWR-NRT (1x UA)
EWR-HND (1x UA)
JFK-NRT (1x NH + 1x JL)
JFK-HND (1x NH + 1x JL)
BOS-HND (1x JL)
HNL-NRT (2x NH + 4x JL + 1x HA)
HNL-HND (1x NH + 1x JL + 1.6x HA + 2x DL)
KOA-NRT (1x JL)
KOA-HND (0.4x HA)
GUM-HND (1x NH)

In other permutations where DL doesn't get their full award, just shuffle the above flights around between carriers. For example, maybe HA ends up with 2.6x HNL-HND and DL with 1x HNL-HND. Maybe UA/NH get fewer awards than AA/JL and ORD ends up being split ORD-NRT 1x UA, ORD-HND 2x NH, with AA flying LAS-HND instead of JL, JL adding a HNL frequency instead of LAS, and NH not flying to GUM from HND... There are lots of ways this could shake out, but I do hope DL gets 5 or 6 of their requests when looking at the overall U.S.-TYO picture.


Given these tentative awards, I think the above overall picture of the U.S.-TYO market could still end up being fairly accurate, with a few changes:
  • DL only gets 1x HNL-HND, with HA picking up an additional HNL-HND as well for a total of 2.6x daily on HA and 1x on DL. I think JL still adds at least one daily HNL-HND as well.
  • AA only gets 1x DFW-HND award. I'm going to go ahead and say that JL maintains their daily DFW flight from NRT, given that the DFW-TYO O&D isn't huge. I'll also say that AA operates ORD-NRT instead of JL given that AA will probably need to keep NRT open as a station anyway at this point.
  • UA gets awarded LAX-HND. So maybe NH just stays at 1x daily on LAX-HND and drops their 2nd daily LAX-NRT flight since UA will also continue operating LAX-NRT. That would give the UA/NH JV 2x daily from LAX to each TYO airport. Then again, maybe UA adds their LAX-HND flight and NH moves their 2nd daily LAX-NRT to LAX-HND, giving the JV 5x daily in LAX-TYO (NH is going to have to dump their awards somewhere...).

So here's my updated estimate of the full picture as of next summer:
SEA-HND (1x NH + 1x JL + 1x DL)
PDX-HND (1x DL)
SFO-NRT (1x UA)
SFO-HND (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL)
SJC-HND (1x NH)
LAX-NRT (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL + 1x SQ)
LAX-HND (1x UA + 2x NH + 2x AA + 1x DL)
SAN-HND (1x JL)
LAS-HND (1x JL)
DEN-NRT (1x UA)
IAH-NRT (1x UA)
IAH-HND (1x NH)
DFW-NRT (1x AA + 1x JL)
DFW-HND (1x AA)
MSP-HND (1x DL)
ORD-NRT (1x NH + 1x AA)
ORD-HND (1x UA + 1x NH + 1x JL)
DTW-HND (1x DL)
ATL-HND (1x DL)
IAD-NRT (1x NH)
IAD-HND (1x UA)
EWR-NRT (1x UA)
EWR-HND (1x UA)
JFK-NRT (1x NH + 1x JL)
JFK-HND (1x NH + 1x JL)
BOS-HND (1x JL)
HNL-NRT (2x NH + 4x JL + 1x HA)
HNL-HND (1x NH + 1x JL + 2.6x HA + 1x DL)
KOA-NRT (1x JL)
KOA-HND (0.4x HA)
GUM-HND (1x NH)


UA also flies HNL-NRT, and GUM-NRT.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
BAINY3
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 1:10 am

I suppose DL will probably stop SIN/MNL on its own metal and rely on KE connections through ICN. It would remind me of how NW/DL (forget when exactly it happened) pulled out of AMS-BOM and gave it to KL. (Or, decades earlier, did the same thing with their Scandinavian network.)
 
United857
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:37 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 1:39 am

I also think this means the end of AA serving NRT is quite close. As of now, AA only flies to NRT from DFW (2x daily)/LAX (1x daily)/ORD (3x weekly). With the new LAX/DFW slots, the LAX-NRT frequency will likely be moved to HND (joining AA's existing 1x daily LAX-HND frequency), and 1 of the 2 DFW-NRT frequencies will almost definitely be cancelled after DFW-HND begins.

At that point, NRT will only see from AA 1x daily DFW and 3x weekly ORD. Once JL gets its slot allocation, I would not be surprised if the first route they launch is HND-ORD, coinciding with AA cancelling their paltry 3x weekly NRT-ORD flight. Once that happens, I can see AA wanting to streamline its operations by handing over its remaining NRT-DFW frequency to JL and consolidate their personnel at HND to cut costs.
A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A346 A388 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748 B752 B764 B772 B77L B77W B788 CRJ2 E145 E17S E190 MD88 MD90
AA AC B6 CA CX CZ DL EK FM HU KA LH LX MU NH TK UA US
 
kavok
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 1:42 am

After reading the DOT document, my interpretation is that UAs LAX-HND was the last slot chosen, and that the DOT respected each carriers ranking preferences. Thus, had UA ranked IAH ahead of LAX, it is very likely that IAH-HND would have been chosen instead. Also, AA ranking LAS below DFW#2 also killed any chance of LAS being selected.

Looking back, I really believe that had AA put ORD, PHL or maybe even LAS as their number 3 choice above DFW#2, they would have been chosen over UA’s LAX slot. I also believe that had HA put in a KOA-HND bid as their number 2 choice, they would have been picked as well for both HNL and KOA.

I think UA and DL can both look back on this process and feel good about how they justified and ranked their picks. Conversely, a potential missed opportunity for AA or HA (unless they truly didn’t want to fly HND from ORD, PHL, KOA, etc.)
 
miaami
Posts: 896
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

Re: US-Japan agree on additional Haneda slots; DOT to allocate

Fri May 17, 2019 1:42 am

C010T3 wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
I do not understand why DL deserves more route authorities than UA or AA. AA should have atleast gotten 3 authorities and started service from LAS. I hope AA challenges this ruling.


I'm sorry, but AA completely capitulated. The fact that they did not even try applying for ORD-HND speaks volumes.


AA remains the weakest carrier to Asia. If finalized as is, AA will have even more competition on LAX-HND and we already know how AA responds to competition (ie JFK, ORD), I wouldn't be suprised if AA also drops LAX-NRT. DL is the big winner here.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos