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readytotaxi
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BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:40 pm

https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW27/1f70aa0f

LHR-HKG got about 30 mins into the flight and is now doing laps over the East Coast at 10,000ft, fuel dump perhaps before returning?
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CarbonFibre
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:42 pm

QF2 did the same last night!
 
TCX69K
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:10 pm

The aircraft is unable to retract the flaps and so is returning to LHR to nightstop.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:24 pm

Captain. "Better ring the wife incase the window cleaner is staying the night" :duck:
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Slug71
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:28 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Captain. "Better ring the wife incase the window cleaner is staying the night" :duck:
:lol: :lol:
 
Utah744
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:36 pm

Flew with a FO who's wife had the roofer spend more time inside than on the roof.
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MrBretz
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:42 pm

The plane has been left hand racetracking for 3 hours now. I thought the A380 could dump fuel. Any reason why it hasn't?
 
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AirKevin
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:44 pm

MrBretz wrote:
The plane has been left hand racetracking for 3 hours now. I thought the A380 could dump fuel. Any reason why it hasn't?

Can you dump fuel with the flaps extended?
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AndrewJM70
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:52 pm

It was going to Hong Kong. That is a lot of fuel.
 
mwhcvt
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:10 am

MrBretz wrote:
The plane has been left hand racetracking for 3 hours now. I thought the A380 could dump fuel. Any reason why it hasn't?


Purely from a PR perspective I can see an airline would rather not dump fuel unless it’s an emergency warranted it, in the age of social media and environmental activism so as this fault was not an immediate flight risk better just to fly until max landing weight is achieved, probably serve a few meals and drinks and more over give people on the ground time to book coaches and hotels without a baying crowd, just think they can wait a couple of hours, serve some complimentary drinks, and have hotel rooms and coaches waiting for when they land
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
MrBretz
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:18 am

mwhcvt wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
The plane has been left hand racetracking for 3 hours now. I thought the A380 could dump fuel. Any reason why it hasn't?


Purely from a PR perspective I can see an airline would rather not dump fuel unless it’s an emergency warranted it, in the age of social media and environmental activism so as this fault was not an immediate flight risk better just to fly until max landing weight is achieved, probably serve a few meals and drinks and more over give people on the ground time to book coaches and hotels without a baying crowd, just think they can wait a couple of hours, serve some complimentary drinks, and have hotel rooms and coaches waiting for when they land


Good point. I hadn't thought of that. Maybe you only dump fuel if it is a real emergency.
 
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Slug71
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:25 am

Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?
 
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Polot
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:32 am

Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?

Probably wouldn’t be able to make it HKG. Would be prerferabe to have the passengers and plane at home base rather than at a random outstation.
 
MaksFly
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:33 am

Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?


Um... can, but limited and burn a lot more fuel would think. =) In either case, would be silly to go on.
 
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kearnet
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:33 am

Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?



EDIT: sorry misread the question: they can't fly at full speed and the flaps increase full burn. So while it’s perfectly safe in general, it'll take them longer if they tried to go on and might end up not having enough fuel.

As said above, it’s better to just land back at home where there's MX readily available and resources for pax, instead of potential diversion.

*Original reply: Of course, just have to slow down a bit. The extra drag burns fuel faster which is what they want in this case, so they're good until they're ready.
Last edited by kearnet on Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mwhcvt
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:35 am

Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?


The added drag would likely mean they wouldn’t have enough fuel to make it there, stopping on route with a exisitng fault and or ended up tech at and outstation is not something ops would want better to RTB
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
blueflyer
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:38 am

Any idea how long for they'll be going nowhere? Does the crew do their normal service in the meantime?
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MrBretz
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:38 am

Flightradar shows the next arrival at LHR at 4:45AM. And you don't see anyone landing there now. Is there a hard curfew at LHR? Maybe that's why they are holding?
 
CplKlinger
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:43 am

MrBretz wrote:
Flightradar shows the next arrival at LHR at 4:45AM. And you don't see anyone landing there now. Is there a hard curfew at LHR? Maybe that's why they are holding?


If you've got a MX issue, they're going to let you land. Not like they can say "Sorry chaps, fields closed till 0600. Can you hang out a bit till then?"
 
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Slug71
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:46 am

Polot wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?

Probably wouldn’t be able to make it HKG. Would be prerferabe to have the passengers and plane at home base rather than at a random outstation.


MaksFly wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?


Um... can, but limited and burn a lot more fuel would think. =) In either case, would be silly to go on.


kearnet wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?



EDIT: sorry misread the question: they can't fly at full speed and the flaps increase full burn. So while it’s perfectly safe in general, it'll take them longer if they tried to go on and might end up not having enough fuel.

As said above, it’s better to just land back at home where there's MX readily available and resources for pax, instead of potential diversion.

*Original reply: Of course, just have to slow down a bit. The extra drag burns fuel faster which is what they want in this case, so they're good until they're ready.


mwhcvt wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?


The added drag would likely mean they wouldn’t have enough fuel to make it there, stopping on route with a exisitng fault and or ended up tech at and outstation is not something ops would want better to RTB


Thanks for the replies. Was just curious why they didn't continue on to Germany or something. Make sense though.
 
reapermech77
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:00 am

Still doing the racetrack over the channel
 
harleydriver
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:05 am

According to FR24, looks like its leaving the holding pattern and heading back to LHR.
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reapermech77
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:21 am

Just turned away from LHR according to FR24
 
Feroze
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:23 am

It's now flying the Lambourne hold at FL80 and I've just heard it overhead!
 
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EK413
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:35 am

Is this the Le Tour de London? 4 hours to no mans land :D

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Feroze
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:42 am

Looks like it's now on final descent through 3000ft and heading for Heathrow 27L.

Correction: 27R
Last edited by Feroze on Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
bhxalex
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:56 am

She's just whistled past my window in Brentford. Could hear her reverse thrust from 4 miles away.
 
CplKlinger
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:39 am

Slug71 wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Was just curious why they didn't continue on to Germany or something. Make sense though.


If it's close enough to their home field, it's easiest for MX and accommodating pax to just go back. Could also be visa issues for some folks in a third country, depending on their origin.
 
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:27 am

Forum Moderator
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:48 am

qf789 wrote:


“After having to dump fuel for 4 hours”. Idiots.
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:01 am

BA28?

I have corrected the post, it should have said BA27
 
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:01 am

arcticcruiser wrote:
qf789 wrote:


“After having to dump fuel for 4 hours”. Idiots.


Dont be so naive. The fuel dumping was necessary in order for a safe landing. Without dumping fuel the aircraft would have been severly overweight and the runway would have not been long enough to stop the aircraft. Maybe you need to look at QF32, in that they were grossly overweight of which they would have had less fuel on board being SIN-SYD over LHR-HKG of which when they calculated how much runway they needed they would just make it on a 4000m runway
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arcticcruiser
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:27 am

Who is being naive? Silly wording by whoever these Twitter “Airlive” are. First you would not dump fuel “for 4 hours”, but you could be burning off fuel for 4 hours. Totally different. If they really had to dump fuel, that would have taken a lot less time. Do not need any lectures from you on runway length vs. landing weights, I have had to do overweights landings a few times. Last one about 4 months ago due to a medical emergency.
 
philvardon
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:30 am

qf789 wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
qf789 wrote:


“After having to dump fuel for 4 hours”. Idiots.


Dont be so naive. The fuel dumping was necessary in order for a safe landing. Without dumping fuel the aircraft would have been severly overweight and the runway would have not been long enough to stop the aircraft. Maybe you need to look at QF32, in that they were grossly overweight of which they would have had less fuel on board being SIN-SYD over LHR-HKG of which when they calculated how much runway they needed they would just make it on a 4000m runway


I think that the poster is implying that Airlive are idiots for saying that the aircraft dumped fuel for four hours. When what it really did was burn fuel for four hours to get under MLW
 
FlapsOne
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:39 am

Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?


I’m a mere A320 flyer but jammed flaps will significantly increase your fuel burn. I guess given the size of big moma’s flaps and slats that the fuel burn would be even worse. Besides flaps or slats down mean you’re going to be flying very slowly which means an even longer flight to Honkers!

If the machine isn’t happy then where better to give it the TLC that it needs than its home base?
 
WIederling
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:56 am

MrBretz wrote:
Good point. I hadn't thought of that. Maybe you only dump fuel if it is a real emergency.


If you fly the passengers around all night long you don't have to pay for their hotel storage :-)
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Armodeen
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:46 am

WIederling wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
Good point. I hadn't thought of that. Maybe you only dump fuel if it is a real emergency.


If you fly the passengers around all night long you don't have to pay for their hotel storage :-)


You can't argue with that logic :lol:
 
Binford
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:12 am

qf789 wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
qf789 wrote:


“After having to dump fuel for 4 hours”. Idiots.


Dont be so naive. The fuel dumping was necessary in order for a safe landing. Without dumping fuel the aircraft would have been severly overweight and the runway would have not been long enough to stop the aircraft. Maybe you need to look at QF32, in that they were grossly overweight of which they would have had less fuel on board being SIN-SYD over LHR-HKG of which when they calculated how much runway they needed they would just make it on a 4000m runway


If they really dumped fuel why would they fly around for 4 Hours? Sound more like burning of fuel.
 
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SEPilot
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:04 pm

While dumped fuel will vaporize, it is still highly undesirable from an environmental standpoint. If there was a valid reason why it would be necessary to land as soon as possible (engine problem and medical emergency come to mind) then dumping fuel wins out over a dangerous overweight landing. But with a problem that is not going to get worse, like stuck flaps, burning the excess fuel off makes more sense.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:44 pm

Slug71 wrote:
Is it not safe to fly with the flaps extended?


It would be impossible to fly all the way to Hong Kong with the flaps extended and if it landed somewhere else BA would have a damaged aircraft away from home and need to fly engineers out there or find a local contractor which would charge them a high price. It would also have 500 pax at an airport that does not have enough BA staff to deal with them. Some pax may not even have visas for Germany and be unable to disembark there.

It's far easier to just bring the aircraft back to base and put the pax on the next flight to HK, then tow it into their hanger and have their own specialised staff look at it.
 
tallis
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:07 pm

Just to end the speculation, they did dump fuel.

I know because I was operating an aircraft in the descent to Stansted at around 22:30z and they’d just been given permission on the same frequency (can’t remember if it was Thames or London) to begin jettisoning.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:52 pm

SEPilot wrote:
But with a problem that is not going to get worse, like stuck flaps, burning the excess fuel off makes more sense.


Normally in a 4 engine airplane you fuel jettison to get below max landing weight -- in twins there are other reasons. However, in this case with a flap issue, they needed to dump a lot more fuel to get down to a safe landing speed. They probably couldn't move the flaps to the normal landing position and were forced to add 25 +/- knots to their landing speed. The fuel dump probably took a little over 2 hours with coming, going, troubleshooting and checklists covering the rest. If they just flew around and didn't dump fuel the flight would have been several hours longer.
 
neutronstar73
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:35 pm

mwhcvt wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
The plane has been left hand racetracking for 3 hours now. I thought the A380 could dump fuel. Any reason why it hasn't?


Purely from a PR perspective I can see an airline would rather not dump fuel unless it’s an emergency warranted it, in the age of social media and environmental activism so as this fault was not an immediate flight risk better just to fly until max landing weight is achieved, probably serve a few meals and drinks and more over give people on the ground time to book coaches and hotels without a baying crowd, just think they can wait a couple of hours, serve some complimentary drinks, and have hotel rooms and coaches waiting for when they land


I like that idea. Very smart. Excellent observation.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:33 pm

neutronstar73 wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
The plane has been left hand racetracking for 3 hours now. I thought the A380 could dump fuel. Any reason why it hasn't?


Purely from a PR perspective I can see an airline would rather not dump fuel unless it’s an emergency warranted it, in the age of social media and environmental activism so as this fault was not an immediate flight risk better just to fly until max landing weight is achieved, probably serve a few meals and drinks and more over give people on the ground time to book coaches and hotels without a baying crowd, just think they can wait a couple of hours, serve some complimentary drinks, and have hotel rooms and coaches waiting for when they land


I like that idea. Very smart. Excellent observation.

I believe I read somewhere that fuel dumping from altitude rarely resulted in anything actually hitting the ground.
Whether that was the case from a relatively low 10,000 ft altitude I couldn't say.

That just leaves whether it was better to dump the fuel, and have it evaporate into the atmosphere
or
Whether it was better to burn it and generate additional CO²

In reality neither is a good option for the environment.

I did have one rather absurd thought regarding keeping the pax airborne until BA had prepared things on the ground for them; what if BA were busy organising a replacement A380 & crew (assuming they could find a spare one at short notice). How many pax would enjoy the thought of a 4 hour flight to nowhere, followed immediately by another 11-12 hrs actually flying to HKG? I concluded it was probably a bad idea even if it was feasible.
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DocLightning
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:26 pm

This is the first time in my memory that I've heard of a primary flaps malfunction (without something else obviously causing it). What could cause it?

What kinds of logic are built in to ensure that the aircraft remains controllable with jammed flaps? Is there logic to prevent the LE slats from retracting, for example?
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c933103
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:37 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
neutronstar73 wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:

Purely from a PR perspective I can see an airline would rather not dump fuel unless it’s an emergency warranted it, in the age of social media and environmental activism so as this fault was not an immediate flight risk better just to fly until max landing weight is achieved, probably serve a few meals and drinks and more over give people on the ground time to book coaches and hotels without a baying crowd, just think they can wait a couple of hours, serve some complimentary drinks, and have hotel rooms and coaches waiting for when they land


I like that idea. Very smart. Excellent observation.

I believe I read somewhere that fuel dumping from altitude rarely resulted in anything actually hitting the ground.
Whether that was the case from a relatively low 10,000 ft altitude I couldn't say.

That just leaves whether it was better to dump the fuel, and have it evaporate into the atmosphere
or
Whether it was better to burn it and generate additional CO²

In reality neither is a good option for the environment.

I did have one rather absurd thought regarding keeping the pax airborne until BA had prepared things on the ground for them; what if BA were busy organising a replacement A380 & crew (assuming they could find a spare one at short notice). How many pax would enjoy the thought of a 4 hour flight to nowhere, followed immediately by another 11-12 hrs actually flying to HKG? I concluded it was probably a bad idea even if it was feasible.

Given that they have to fly this number of hours to dumb the fuel anyway and the aircraft wasn't really dangerous, could it be a viable choice to use the fuel to fly them to say Dubai and then let EK carry them for the rest of the journey? That would minimize the travelling time of affected passengers although the image wouldn't be that good for BA and one would never know when might some other things in the aircraft went wrong that requires a more emergent handling
 
wildwobby
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:59 am

c933103 wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
neutronstar73 wrote:

I like that idea. Very smart. Excellent observation.

I believe I read somewhere that fuel dumping from altitude rarely resulted in anything actually hitting the ground.
Whether that was the case from a relatively low 10,000 ft altitude I couldn't say.

That just leaves whether it was better to dump the fuel, and have it evaporate into the atmosphere
or
Whether it was better to burn it and generate additional CO²

In reality neither is a good option for the environment.

I did have one rather absurd thought regarding keeping the pax airborne until BA had prepared things on the ground for them; what if BA were busy organising a replacement A380 & crew (assuming they could find a spare one at short notice). How many pax would enjoy the thought of a 4 hour flight to nowhere, followed immediately by another 11-12 hrs actually flying to HKG? I concluded it was probably a bad idea even if it was feasible.

Given that they have to fly this number of hours to dumb the fuel anyway and the aircraft wasn't really dangerous, could it be a viable choice to use the fuel to fly them to say Dubai and then let EK carry them for the rest of the journey? That would minimize the travelling time of affected passengers although the image wouldn't be that good for BA and one would never know when might some other things in the aircraft went wrong that requires a more emergent handling


You should really read the thread since this point has been adressed a few times already.

In addition, “let EK carry them the rest of the journey”? Do you think EK is some sort of charity?
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harleydriver
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:37 am

Given that they have to fly this number of hours to dumb the fuel anyway and the aircraft wasn't really dangerous, could it be a viable choice to use the fuel to fly them to say Dubai and then let EK carry them for the rest of the journey? That would minimize the travelling time of affected passengers although the image wouldn't be that good for BA and one would never know when might some other things in the aircraft went wrong that requires a more emergent handling

Not really a viable option. The amount of coordination required would be horrendous. Does EK have a spare jet and crew available? Does EK have space in a hanger to work on this jet in addition to their own maintenance requirements? Someone late at night has to coordinate contract prices for EK to do this for BA if they continued on and only if EK had an available aircraft and crew at Dubai. They did the right thing and I'm sure it wasn't a difficult decision to make. Dump fuel to land at a safe landing weight and speed and apologize severely to the inconvenienced passengers. If BA had another aircraft and crew available, order many extra first class meals for everyone and stock up on liquor for free drinks for the next 12 hours and get them on their way. It could be an easy fix to the aircraft or it could be an extensive repair and its much better to have your own crew working on it.
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hz747300
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:46 am

This makes sense. I saw a BA A380 taking off from HKG around 5pm-ish yesterday so I opened Flight Radar and saw it was BA28D. That would put them in London around 11pm I guess.
Keep on truckin'...
 
Rivet42
Posts: 606
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Re: BA27 A380 having problems currently.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:19 am

Yup, G-XLED departed LHR as the delayed BA27D at 20:15 on 9th, arriving HKG 15:24 +1, quick turnaround (for the previous nights' passengers), departed 18:06, and landed back at LHR last night at 22:27.

So it wasn't just the pax ex London that needed hotels, it was also the planeload at HKG, although they would at least have had 16+ hours warning. No doubt VS and CX picked up what they could.

Ironic, I always prefer a daytime flight back to London from HKG, so almost always take CX. Wish BA did this quick turnround as a routine, but it obviously doesn't work for them to have a 380 landing back at base too late to go anywhere else.

Riv'
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Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos