boeing767300
Topic Author
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WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:40 pm

Westjet B-787 was delivered to YYC on January 17th and departed to YYZ on January 18th. According to R-24 the aircraft has not flown since and has yet to operate its first revenue flight. My understanding was that it would commence scheduled operations on February 8th on YYZ-YYC-YYZ. I am now hearing that date has been pushed to February 22nd!!! By comparison when Air Canada took delivery of their first 787 C-GHPQ on 18th May 2014 it operated a scheduled flight to YYZ-YUL-YYZ the following day. Shortly after that it operated daily YYZ-YHZ-YYZ presumably to build ETOPS hours. Compared to that the Westjet situation seems a little odd as one would think that building ETOPS hours would be a high priority. Not to mention getting bums in seats so that they can start paying for this high priced new toy. I am also hearing that the aircraft was damaged by a Menzies belt loader while in YYZ but haven't had confirmation yet from a usually reliable source. Might be just me but something is not right with this picture!
 
BML87
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:51 pm

Where are you getting February 8th from?

This article from August lists Feb 20th as the start date.

https://www.traveloffpath.com/westjet-787-destinations/
 
sixtyseven
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:19 pm

Saw it the other day covered in snow and ice at YYZ in front of their hangar. Perhaps they are installing the koolaid dispensers.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
7673mech
Posts: 520
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:07 am

boeing767300 wrote:
Westjet B-787 was delivered to YYC on January 17th and departed to YYZ on January 18th. According to R-24 the aircraft has not flown since and has yet to operate its first revenue flight. My understanding was that it would commence scheduled operations on February 8th on YYZ-YYC-YYZ. I am now hearing that date has been pushed to February 22nd!!! By comparison when Air Canada took delivery of their first 787 C-GHPQ on 18th May 2014 it operated a scheduled flight to YYZ-YUL-YYZ the following day. Shortly after that it operated daily YYZ-YHZ-YYZ presumably to build ETOPS hours. Compared to that the Westjet situation seems a little odd as one would think that building ETOPS hours would be a high priority. Not to mention getting bums in seats so that they can start paying for this high priced new toy. I am also hearing that the aircraft was damaged by a Menzies belt loader while in YYZ but haven't had confirmation yet from a usually reliable source. Might be just me but something is not right with this picture!


Flamebait much?
Air Canada fanboy?

The Air Canada 787s went to ATS first at PAE and the later deliveries have gone to MCI. They were not flying the next day.
Post delivery mods and familiarisation could be taking place.

No need for drama like something sinister is happening.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 am

I watched a trip report on Youtube taken by QFS Aviation on January 21, and it shows a WS 787 parked in front of their hangar at YYZ next to an Air Canada 763.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
shoelessjoe
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:32 am

I was at YYZ last Sunday (Feb 3)...from T1 I saw it towed from the hangar over to T3 where it parked on the gate and atayed there for ~2 hours. It then pushed and returned to the hangar. Training presumably.
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:36 am

It is doing practice turns and training and certification work. It is flying tomorrow to YYC for more training etc in YYC. First revenue flight is Feb 20. The executives have publicly stated that they want EIS to go smoothly and have no unexpected surprises. They have learned the lesson from the 767 which is why you are seeing a modest entry into service and the first summer operations to places WJA already flies to and can recover from if something goes wrong. Again this is what the executives have stated. See Ed's comments around the middle of this page (WJA Q4 earnings call transcript) https://seekingalpha.com/article/423835 ... ipt?page=9
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boeing767300
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:41 am

Interesting, delivered on 17th January and scheduled into service on the 20th of February. That makes 34 days of being a hangar queen and a fancy airport ornament. Definitely something wrong with that picture and probably a record of sorts for entry into service.There can be absolutely no comparison to the 767 as they were "dogs" that had been stored in Victorville for too long. Not to mention that they were prepared for service in Lake Charles La by a company that did a below par job of getting them ready. By comparison the 787 is a brand new aircraft that comes with full Boeing support and this machine should absolutely be in service by now. Languishing in a city that it will not be operating from makes no sense at all.
 
dmanonice
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:21 am

It was sent to YYZ for acquisition checks and hangar work because the YYC hangar is not yet ready for service. They also took the time to train the YYZ ground crews (ramp and CSAs) and conducted simulated turnarounds including catering the aircraft. It will now repeat the process in YYC and then will be in service as stated on the 20th of Feb.
Mike
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:30 am

boeing767300 wrote:
Interesting, delivered on 17th January and scheduled into service on the 20th of February. That makes 34 days of being a hangar queen and a fancy airport ornament. Definitely something wrong with that picture and probably a record of sorts for entry into service.


Not hardly a record and not that out of the ordinary:

United 788 Delivered 09/22/2012 Revenue 11/5/2012 44 days

American 788 Delivered 1/23/2015 Revenue 5/7/2015 104 days
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:30 am

boeing767300 wrote:
Interesting, delivered on 17th January and scheduled into service on the 20th of February. That makes 34 days of being a hangar queen and a fancy airport ornament. Definitely something wrong with that picture and probably a record of sorts for entry into service.There can be absolutely no comparison to the 767 as they were "dogs" that had been stored in Victorville for too long. Not to mention that they were prepared for service in Lake Charles La by a company that did a below par job of getting them ready. By comparison the 787 is a brand new aircraft that comes with full Boeing support and this machine should absolutely be in service by now. Languishing in a city that it will not be operating from makes no sense at all.


AC's 737-8 EIS:

Delivered Nov. 2/17
First revenue flight Dec. 11/17

That's 39 days. Albeit, they did do some training flights for familiarization during that period of time, but it was still a lengthy amount of time before revenue service was achieved, which seems to be what you're getting at.

https://www.skiesmag.com/news/air-canad ... g-737-max/
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-12 ... -Amenities
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... schedules/
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:42 am

How long for delta’s A220? The OP has made a fool of himself
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:43 am

7BOEING7 wrote:
Not hardly a record and not that out of the ordinary:
United 788 Delivered 09/22/2012 Revenue 11/5/2012 44 days
American 788 Delivered 1/23/2015 Revenue 5/7/2015 104 days

Apples to oranges. Canadian airlines do not have to deal with FAA operating certification of new aircraft types.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:14 am

[url][/url]
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Not hardly a record and not that out of the ordinary:
United 788 Delivered 09/22/2012 Revenue 11/5/2012 44 days
American 788 Delivered 1/23/2015 Revenue 5/7/2015 104 days

Apples to oranges. Canadian airlines do not have to deal with FAA operating certification of new aircraft types.


No, they just have to deal with Transport Canada operating certification of new aircraft types.....one of the dumbest thread on here in a while. I’m sure there would have been much criticism and comparison to the ‘67 operation had the ‘87s been thrown into service the day after delivery!!
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:16 am

boeing767300 wrote:
Interesting, delivered on 17th January and scheduled into service on the 20th of February. That makes 34 days of being a hangar queen and a fancy airport ornament. Definitely something wrong with that picture and probably a record of sorts for entry into service.There can be absolutely no comparison to the 767 as they were "dogs" that had been stored in Victorville for too long. Not to mention that they were prepared for service in Lake Charles La by a company that did a below par job of getting them ready. By comparison the 787 is a brand new aircraft that comes with full Boeing support and this machine should absolutely be in service by now. Languishing in a city that it will not be operating from makes no sense at all.


You are forgetting how long it takes to certify all manuals, verify all mtc procedures, demonstrate evacuations to the satisfaction of TC, validate all crew/ground/catering procedures etc. YYZ has a hangar that can support this. YYC does not at the moment. It is better to take a month to make sure you are doing it right, and get your second plane so you have a bit of flexibility in the operation, than to bungle EIS with one plane and a bunch of people who don't know how to work with it yet. The 767 showed how not to introduce a new type. Why are you making it seem like WestJet is doing something wrong by making sure they do it right this time?
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7BOEING7
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:28 am

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Not hardly a record and not that out of the ordinary:
United 788 Delivered 09/22/2012 Revenue 11/5/2012 44 days
American 788 Delivered 1/23/2015 Revenue 5/7/2015 104 days


Apples to oranges. Canadian airlines do not have to deal with FAA operating certification of new aircraft types.


104 days!!! The paperwork may have added some time but not that much, especially if United only took 44

It's only smart for WestJet who hasn't operated any airplanes of that size before to get their act together before jumping in with both feet and "stuff" happens. A burp in the delivery date could have caused some issues if start of service was only a week away.
 
boeing767300
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:59 am

No worries and hopefully it all goes well for them. Will WS655 on the 20th be the first revenue flight?
 
777PHX
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:01 am

boeing767300 wrote:
Interesting, delivered on 17th January and scheduled into service on the 20th of February. That makes 34 days of being a hangar queen and a fancy airport ornament. Definitely something wrong with that picture and probably a record of sorts for entry into service.There can be absolutely no comparison to the 767 as they were "dogs" that had been stored in Victorville for too long. Not to mention that they were prepared for service in Lake Charles La by a company that did a below par job of getting them ready. By comparison the 787 is a brand new aircraft that comes with full Boeing support and this machine should absolutely be in service by now. Languishing in a city that it will not be operating from makes no sense at all.


You should go ahead and hit them up and explain how you know how to run their airline better than they do.
 
berari
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:11 am

She took off from Toronto headed to Calgary about an hour ago: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-gudh
 
7673mech
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:16 am

https://calgarysun.com/business/local-b ... 7f37fe/amp

Transport Canada Certification and familiarisation.
 
boeing767300
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:03 pm

This morning the aircraft is essentially a popsicle as it has been sitting outside the Calgary hangar since Monday night! Calgary has been experiencing record cold temperatures since its arrival . No doubt the aircraft would be better off flying and earning its keep. A series of YYC-YVR-YYC would be real familiarization as opposed to leaving it in a snow bank during the coldest days of the year. Meanwhile the Transport Canada excuse doesn't hold water, especially with 34 787 aircraft already in service in Canada. TC requirements could easily have been met prior to delivery of the aircraft. Sounds like a gong show to this writer and using a Calgary Sun propaganda story is meaningless.
 
ryan78
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:48 pm

boeing767300 wrote:
This morning the aircraft is essentially a popsicle as it has been sitting outside the Calgary hangar since Monday night! Calgary has been experiencing record cold temperatures since its arrival . No doubt the aircraft would be better off flying and earning its keep. A series of YYC-YVR-YYC would be real familiarization as opposed to leaving it in a snow bank during the coldest days of the year. Meanwhile the Transport Canada excuse doesn't hold water, especially with 34 787 aircraft already in service in Canada. TC requirements could easily have been met prior to delivery of the aircraft. Sounds like a gong show to this writer and using a Calgary Sun propaganda story is meaningless.


Have you ever been involved with an airplane doing an intro to service check? Have you ever been involved in a new type being introduced to the fleet? These things take time and it is imperative that everything is double and triple checked before starting operations with a new type. The last thing you want to do is rush the airplane and potentially untrained staff into service. These frames will be with Westjet for a very long time, they're not worried about missing 2-3 weeks of flying.

There is tons of training that needs to be done when introducing a new type to the fleet. Everyone from OCC/Dispatch, Maintenance, Ground Handling, Catering, Pilots & F/A's, even Technical Records, Quality Assurance, Planning, and essentially everyone involved that can impact the operation of the airplane. Even things like GSE Maintenance has to make sure they have the capability to perform work and get mechanics to the aircraft, I.E. lift trucks and air stairs. The hangar has to be prepared to make sure there is room for the new type, tow markings painted on the floor to accommodate the aircraft etc. Stores needs to make sure they have all the essential spare parts in stock for flying and maintaining the 787, and with that comes sourcing new vendors to buy parts and new repair stations to send the parts to. There is literally so much effort that goes into introducing a new type to the fleet, especially for an airline like Westjet who doesn't have much wide-body flying experience with only a handful of 767's. Not to mention the well publicized struggles of the 767 introduction, I'm sure they want to have everything perfect before starting revenue flights.

The airline I work for regularly leases aircraft over the winter season for added capacity to the Caribbean. Many of these airplanes come from airlines in Europe. When they come into our fleet we do what's known as an introduction to service check before they fly for us. Keep in mind we already have a fleet of these aircraft so they are not a new type to us. Essentially we do a top to bottom inspection, strip down the interiors, change all the carpets, all the seat covers, remove rows of seats to keep them the same as our existing fleet so we can tail swap them freely. We add all of our safety equipment that our F/A's are trained to use, replace the CVR/FDR, add the EFB tablets to the cockpit for the pilots, update the books, update the QAR, PMCIA cards and EGPWS data. IFE content is updated, placards are placed throughout the cabin, the livery is applied to the exterior like a big sticker, existing MEL's are cleared if able... The list goes on and on. The time frame for one of these is about 5-7 days from first ferrying into the airport until pushing out of the hangar completed and ready for service. If there are problems and complications the process can take longer about 7-10 days. But even then we usually plan some lead time before they fly in case things get delayed.

My point is a new aircraft intro to service takes time for any airline. And I side with Westjet on this one, get it right the first time, even if it takes a little longer to start revenue flights. They've been there before, rushed into service, and were faced with numerous delays, operational challenges and bad press. Making sure that all the I's are dotted and the T's crossed is not a bad thing.
 
sixtyseven
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:41 pm

YYZatcboy wrote:
boeing767300 wrote:
Interesting, delivered on 17th January and scheduled into service on the 20th of February. That makes 34 days of being a hangar queen and a fancy airport ornament. Definitely something wrong with that picture and probably a record of sorts for entry into service.There can be absolutely no comparison to the 767 as they were "dogs" that had been stored in Victorville for too long. Not to mention that they were prepared for service in Lake Charles La by a company that did a below par job of getting them ready. By comparison the 787 is a brand new aircraft that comes with full Boeing support and this machine should absolutely be in service by now. Languishing in a city that it will not be operating from makes no sense at all.


You are forgetting how long it takes to certify all manuals, verify all mtc procedures, demonstrate evacuations to the satisfaction of TC, validate all crew/ground/catering procedures etc. YYZ has a hangar that can support this. YYC does not at the moment. It is better to take a month to make sure you are doing it right, and get your second plane so you have a bit of flexibility in the operation, than to bungle EIS with one plane and a bunch of people who don't know how to work with it yet. The 767 showed how not to introduce a new type. Why are you making it seem like WestJet is doing something wrong by making sure they do it right this time?


Yeah but they don’t start writing the compan manuals when they take delivery. All that stuff starts about 2 years prior to delivery.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 349
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:29 pm

boeing767300 wrote:
This morning the aircraft is essentially a popsicle as it has been sitting outside the Calgary hangar since Monday night! Calgary has been experiencing record cold temperatures since its arrival . No doubt the aircraft would be better off flying and earning its keep. A series of YYC-YVR-YYC would be real familiarization as opposed to leaving it in a snow bank during the coldest days of the year. Meanwhile the Transport Canada excuse doesn't hold water, especially with 34 787 aircraft already in service in Canada. TC requirements could easily have been met prior to delivery of the aircraft. Sounds like a gong show to this writer and using a Calgary Sun propaganda story is meaningless.


Why is this such a concern for you? No doubt everyone at Westjet is well aware that they have a nine-figure asset (that they're already paying rent on) sitting on the ground. Not uncommon at all for an airplane, particularly a new type for an airline, to go into service MONTHS after delivery. That they're doing it in a month or so is pretty good. You seem to think otherwise, but I'm not sure what experience you have to base that on.
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: WESTJET B-787 C-GUDH what is it doing?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:30 am

sixtyseven wrote:
YYZatcboy wrote:
boeing767300 wrote:
Interesting, delivered on 17th January and scheduled into service on the 20th of February. That makes 34 days of being a hangar queen and a fancy airport ornament. Definitely something wrong with that picture and probably a record of sorts for entry into service.There can be absolutely no comparison to the 767 as they were "dogs" that had been stored in Victorville for too long. Not to mention that they were prepared for service in Lake Charles La by a company that did a below par job of getting them ready. By comparison the 787 is a brand new aircraft that comes with full Boeing support and this machine should absolutely be in service by now. Languishing in a city that it will not be operating from makes no sense at all.


You are forgetting how long it takes to certify all manuals, verify all mtc procedures, demonstrate evacuations to the satisfaction of TC, validate all crew/ground/catering procedures etc. YYZ has a hangar that can support this. YYC does not at the moment. It is better to take a month to make sure you are doing it right, and get your second plane so you have a bit of flexibility in the operation, than to bungle EIS with one plane and a bunch of people who don't know how to work with it yet. The 767 showed how not to introduce a new type. Why are you making it seem like WestJet is doing something wrong by making sure they do it right this time?


Yeah but they don’t start writing the compan manuals when they take delivery. All that stuff starts about 2 years prior to delivery.


Yeah, until TC wants to see that everything in the MTC manual matches every process and part on the aircraft.
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