wnflyguy
Topic Author
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America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:05 pm

America flight 1200 PHX-EWR
Request an emergency landing back in PHX in 20min.
737-800.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Dazed767
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:27 pm

N961AN
 
Sooner787
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:30 pm

Flightaware showed they were over central New Mexico before turning around.
 
jporterfi
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:32 pm

The aircraft just landed back at PHX with fire services on standby.
PPC (ASEL) | Aircraft Flown: PA28, C172, DA20
 
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September11
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:55 pm

Dazed767 wrote:
N961AN


This is her


Taken in Miami, June 2001
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chumley
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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:39 am

Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:09 pm

When it turned around it maintained altitude and appeared to enter the PHX arrival pattern normally. The oddity was that on the return it reduced ground speed by about 25% (according to FlightAware).
 
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pilotkev1
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:14 pm

Outside Air Temperature sensor failure, books tell the crew to avoid icing conditions. So back to PHX they went.
Emergency was declared for overweight landing instead of burning off gas for two and a half hours.
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:13 am

chumley wrote:
When it turned around it maintained altitude and appeared to enter the PHX arrival pattern normally. The oddity was that on the return it reduced ground speed by about 25% (according to FlightAware).

There's nothing odd about having a higher ground speed going east compared to flying west.
 
kabq737
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:06 am

pilotkev1 wrote:
Outside Air Temperature sensor failure, books tell the crew to avoid icing conditions. So back to PHX they went.
Emergency was declared for overweight landing instead of burning off gas for two and a half hours.

Any idea why they wouldn’t want to burn off the fuel?
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XRadar98
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:16 am

Sometimes when you are VFR, you have to return! AAL1200...
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:59 am

kabq737 wrote:
pilotkev1 wrote:
Outside Air Temperature sensor failure, books tell the crew to avoid icing conditions. So back to PHX they went.
Emergency was declared for overweight landing instead of burning off gas for two and a half hours.

Any idea why they wouldn’t want to burn off the fuel?


Burning fuel takes time. That could likely mean the crew times out. If you land overweight, it is a considerable time savings and might allow you to change equipment and re-depart with the same crew.
 
as739x
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:43 pm

chumley wrote:
When it turned around it maintained altitude and appeared to enter the PHX arrival pattern normally. The oddity was that on the return it reduced ground speed by about 25% (according to FlightAware).


Winds were screaming from the west last night at altitude. I flew LAX-PHX and we made up a 30 min delay enroute due to the tailwinds (and ABQ center giving us best speed), so turning back westbound was going to ding their GS regardless.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
wildwobby
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:27 am

Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:20 pm

This thread is amongst the most cringeworthy I’ve seen on this website.

All posts should be deleted except post #7, which is the only post that is not cringeworthy, off topic, or completely inaccurate.
A319 A320 A321 A346 A380 B712 B733 B735 B736 B737 B738 B748 B739 B752 B753 B763 B772 B77W B788 CONC CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 DC10 E120 E145 F100 MD80 MD83 MD88 MD90
 
WayexTDI
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:57 pm

wildwobby wrote:
Not at all. I said all posts should be deleted except #7. My post was not #7. Goodbye.

That thread has been cleaned a lot. And post #7 did survive, which is good.
 
Western727
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:53 pm

Am I the only one who very briefly thought it was an HP flight after quickly glancing and registering "America...back to PHX"? ;)
Jack @ AUS
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 3053
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:51 pm

MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
pilotkev1 wrote:
Outside Air Temperature sensor failure, books tell the crew to avoid icing conditions. So back to PHX they went.
Emergency was declared for overweight landing instead of burning off gas for two and a half hours.

Any idea why they wouldn’t want to burn off the fuel?


Burning fuel takes time. That could likely mean the crew times out. If you land overweight, it is a considerable time savings and might allow you to change equipment and re-depart with the same crew.


Logically, if the crew would have timed out from burning fuel, they would have also timed out prior to making it to the original destination - EWR. So I doubt that that was the reason.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Western727
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:59 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
Any idea why they wouldn’t want to burn off the fuel?


Burning fuel takes time. That could likely mean the crew times out. If you land overweight, it is a considerable time savings and might allow you to change equipment and re-depart with the same crew.


Logically, if the crew would have timed out from burning fuel, they would have also timed out prior to making it to the original destination - EWR. So I doubt that that was the reason.

'902


I took that to mean that if the crew decided to burn fuel, they wouldn't have directly timed out doing that, but instead doing so would've led them to eventually time out before reaching EWR on the second flight.
Jack @ AUS
 
TWA902fly
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:06 pm

Western727 wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:

Burning fuel takes time. That could likely mean the crew times out. If you land overweight, it is a considerable time savings and might allow you to change equipment and re-depart with the same crew.


Logically, if the crew would have timed out from burning fuel, they would have also timed out prior to making it to the original destination - EWR. So I doubt that that was the reason.

'902


I took that to mean that if the crew decided to burn fuel, they wouldn't have directly timed out doing that, but instead doing so would've led them to eventually time out before reaching EWR on the second flight.


Would an airline opt for an overweight landing just to prevent a crew from timing out? I imagine there are various inspections associated with an overweight landing, the cost of which would outweigh having to find a different crew. I am just speculating here, so if someone knows better, please chime in.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
tmu101
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:00 am

Would it have been possible for the flight to have continued and divert to DFW instead of returning to PHX? Sounded like the flight could have continued to DFW where maybe there could have had more options to accommodate passengers esp. if the crew timed out.
 
spacecadet
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:04 am

tmu101 wrote:
Would it have been possible for the flight to have continued and divert to DFW instead of returning to PHX?


Possible, probably. Efficient, probably not. If there was a backup aircraft in PHX that could take the flight while the original aircraft is repaired (it sounds like a fairly simple fix), then you end up with a couple of flights with a bit of a delay and hopefully no impact at all on crew or aircraft positioning.

If you instead divert to DFW, then you end up with both crews and aircraft out of position.

But it all depends on what resources are available at either hub at that specific time.
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wjcandee
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Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:04 am

Useful information for someone to have pulled from liveatc.net would have been what the problem was, which might have informed all the speculation on here about things like burning off fuel, changing crews, and changing equipment. They turned around about 40 minutes into the flight, while over New Mexico, and returned to PHX. So they didn't try to land at the absolutely-nearest airport, an obvious possibility of which would have been ABQ, which implies that the nature of the incident gave them some flexibility about where to land. I'm also not sure why it's assumed that if they simply returned to PHX, they would be landing overweight in a 737-800.

Also, I don't think the tail number of the aircraft posted above is correct. It was N948AN. Interestingly, on the flight TO PHX from EWR on Sunday, the same aircraft did an air return to EWR. It then departed for PHX on a flight Monday morning, which it completed successfully. On the flight back to EWR from PHX, it diverted back to PHX.

So two diverted flights separated by one flight. Sounds like it wasn't fully-diagnosed in EWR the first time.

Discussing that, and gleaning some information about that from the available sources, might have made for a more interesting thread. Just sayin'.
Last edited by wjcandee on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
747Whale
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:41 pm

Re: America flight 1200 heading back to PHX.

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:10 am

TWA902fly wrote:
Would an airline opt for an overweight landing just to prevent a crew from timing out? I imagine there are various inspections associated with an overweight landing, the cost of which would outweigh having to find a different crew. I am just speculating here, so if someone knows better, please chime in.

'902


Maintenance Control will determine where they want the aircraft, in connection with Operations, based on available personnel, aircraft, parts, facilities, location, runways, condition, etc. Destination and enroute weather, return time vs. diversion time, gate availability, and other factors come into play. Reserve crew availability and runway length for an overweight landing are factors as are brake temperatures and turn times.

The crew cannot simply make an overweight landing for convenience; use of emergency authority, however, enables the crew to bypass regulation in order to meet the needs of the "emergency," and a formal declaration is a legal statement to excuse the crew and enable the return. Very routine.

Ground response by emergency equipment is also tied to the formal declaration of an emergency, and a standard, routine response.

From an ATC perspective, a "declaration" of an emergency is a request for priority handling. Also routine.

An overweight landing isn't a problem if the vertical descent rate at touchdown is minimized; the immediate concerns are for the gear and wings. A number of events trigger maintenance inspections, including tail strikes, bird strikes, lightning strikes, severe turbulence, hard landings, volcanic ash encounters, a terrain avoidance maneuver with a hard pitch-up, an overweight landing, etc. The nature of the inspection depends on more than just being overweight, and in many cases is a visual inspection.

There are a number of reasons that an overweight landing might be required, from an onboard fire to a passenger emergency, to an equipment failure; the crew isn't going to take the liability without the "out" offered by a declaration of emergency to cover their butts. The use of a declaration in this case is administrative in nature. It's a legal ploy, rather than an "emergency" as some might consider it to be, and in name only. It's 100% routine. Just part of playing the game.

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