winginit wrote:

klm617 wrote:

If there was a market for ORD-TLV somebody would be flying it.

klm617 wrote:

If they thought they could make money flying out of Chicago they would be there

We'll all be sure to remind you of your statements here whenever you bring up DTW-DUB, DTW-DXB, DTW-DOH, DTW-IST, DTW-MAN, etc. etc. etc.

Some of these have problems with aircraft density like EK and TK. If I'm correct, they recently added more seats to already lower capacity 77Ls, that makes it a little harder to justify service.

This is just a one month seasonal service.

Eff July 2nd - August 20st.
LY035 TLV0005 – 0630MCO 772 2
LY036 MCO1130 – 0630+1TLV 772 2

DarthLobster wrote:

ORDfan101 wrote:

WHY NOT ORD YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe because you just WANT IT TOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very funny

Chicagoland has 291,800 people that are Jewish. Don't you think that Chicago would get EL AL before a once a month and useless Orlando service?

crownvic wrote:

windycity613 wrote:

crownvic wrote:

This train service does not exist and is years away from completion slated for late 2020 or early 2021...

Yes, but to start a New route that in 1-2 years there is a train service (if everything goes according to schedule) I don't think the route will survive after the train service starts, especially since LY flies TLV MIA flight 3 times a week and adding a 4th flight in November 2019.

Why in the world would someone traveling from Asia/Middle East to Orlando chose Miami? What sense would it make to haul luggage from the plane to the train after a 12 hour flight and then ride another 3 hours by train to Central Florida??? I'm sure glad BA VS LH and all the other Intl.carriers don't take that approach...makes no sense!

Not to mention that Brightline/Virgin Trains don't serve MIA directly, but downtown Miami. So a transfer from MIA to the train would be necessary. The best option is Miami Metrorail (heavy rail rapid transit), which has a station at MIA reachable by a people mover from the terminals, but hauling luggage onto a local rapid transit train may not be ideal, plus Metrorail is known to have service issues.

fsafsx wrote:

Chicagoland has 291,800 people that are Jewish. Don't you think that Chicago would get EL AL before a once a month and useless Orlando service?

Yes but ly is scared of UA for some reason

Fargo wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

ORDfan101 wrote:

WHY NOT ORD YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe with the B788. I suspect that one-stop ORD-TLV has a stronger market in Lufthansa and United.

I would also not be surprised to learn that: aside from the NYC metro area, most of El Al's point of sale is Israeli. For TLV-MCO, that is certainly the case, possibly at the cost of CDG. LY is likely looking at numbers of travelers originating and terminating before deciding where to go nonstop. MCO and LAS are tourist markets primarily.

The third largest MSA/CSA with the sixth busiest airport in the world, tons of international O&D, flights to all six continents, two large connecting hubs and many foreign flag carriers has a stronger one-stop LH/UA market to TLV than nonstop? No way.

There is no reason ORD shouldn't have a nonstop to TLV, it's an absolute joke it doesn't already. I'm not sure what UA/LY or even AA is waiting for.

Believe it or not, one of the most popular airlines flying Israelis to ORD is... Royal Jordanian. RJ is offering 787 flights from AMM to ORD with short connection in Jordan, followed by 20 minuted connecting flight to TLV.

EL-AL wrote:

Fargo wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Maybe with the B788. I suspect that one-stop ORD-TLV has a stronger market in Lufthansa and United.

I would also not be surprised to learn that: aside from the NYC metro area, most of El Al's point of sale is Israeli. For TLV-MCO, that is certainly the case, possibly at the cost of CDG. LY is likely looking at numbers of travelers originating and terminating before deciding where to go nonstop. MCO and LAS are tourist markets primarily.

The third largest MSA/CSA with the sixth busiest airport in the world, tons of international O&D, flights to all six continents, two large connecting hubs and many foreign flag carriers has a stronger one-stop LH/UA market to TLV than nonstop? No way.

There is no reason ORD shouldn't have a nonstop to TLV, it's an absolute joke it doesn't already. I'm not sure what UA/LY or even AA is waiting for.

Believe it or not, one of the most popular airlines flying Israelis to ORD is... Royal Jordanian. RJ is offering 787 flights from AMM to ORD with short connection in Jordan, followed by 20 minuted connecting flight to TLV.

Being Chicago area Jew who has done this flight many times I can back this up; RJ and Swiss are both popular for connecting, in fact I have a friend connecting on Swiss tomorrow

I don’t think AA can fly to tlv because of the whole TWA labor controversy

AA: no go to TLV. Dropped from perfect TATL PHL hub and no effort from JFK or MIA (bigger markets)
This was after AA took over the TWA TLV access that they owed the Israel government millions of dollars from TWA’s lack of payments. When AA merged with US they fell under the same umbrella of financial responsibility for the debts owed. The airline chose to shut down TLV instead of paying. The PHL to TLV US service was a great option rather than JFK.

ORDfan101 wrote:

EL-AL wrote:

Fargo wrote:

The third largest MSA/CSA with the sixth busiest airport in the world, tons of international O&D, flights to all six continents, two large connecting hubs and many foreign flag carriers has a stronger one-stop LH/UA market to TLV than nonstop? No way.

There is no reason ORD shouldn't have a nonstop to TLV, it's an absolute joke it doesn't already. I'm not sure what UA/LY or even AA is waiting for.

Believe it or not, one of the most popular airlines flying Israelis to ORD is... Royal Jordanian. RJ is offering 787 flights from AMM to ORD with short connection in Jordan, followed by 20 minuted connecting flight to TLV.

Being Chicago area Jew who has done this flight many times I can back this up; RJ and Swiss are both popular for connecting, in fact I have a friend connecting on Swiss tomorrow

I understand why LX is also popular---they often fly a wide-body on ZRH-TLV (officially, it's EQV on the daily flight - a mix of A320, A321, A333, and B77W equipment). I figured that RJ would be popular given that they're the only airline in the Levant flying to TLV---and RJ puts all of its models on that hop right up to the B788.

How is TK seen though?

aemoreira1981 wrote:

ORDfan101 wrote:

EL-AL wrote:

Believe it or not, one of the most popular airlines flying Israelis to ORD is... Royal Jordanian. RJ is offering 787 flights from AMM to ORD with short connection in Jordan, followed by 20 minuted connecting flight to TLV.

Being Chicago area Jew who has done this flight many times I can back this up; RJ and Swiss are both popular for connecting, in fact I have a friend connecting on Swiss tomorrow

I understand why LX is also popular---they often fly a wide-body on ZRH-TLV (officially, it's EQV on the daily flight - a mix of A320, A321, A333, and B77W equipment). I figured that RJ would be popular given that they're the only airline in the Levant flying to TLV---and RJ puts all of its models on that hop right up to the B788.

How is TK seen though?

Usually I have been on a a330 from ZRH-TLV and yes, TK is also popular, along with a DL 777 from JFK. Jews don’t like LY because their premium is horrible

JFKCMILAXFLL wrote:

crownvic wrote:

windycity613 wrote:

Yes, but to start a New route that in 1-2 years there is a train service (if everything goes according to schedule) I don't think the route will survive after the train service starts, especially since LY flies TLV MIA flight 3 times a week and adding a 4th flight in November 2019.

Why in the world would someone traveling from Asia/Middle East to Orlando chose Miami? What sense would it make to haul luggage from the plane to the train after a 12 hour flight and then ride another 3 hours by train to Central Florida??? I'm sure glad BA VS LH and all the other Intl.carriers don't take that approach...makes no sense!

Not to mention that Brightline/Virgin Trains don't serve MIA directly, but downtown Miami. So a transfer from MIA to the train would be necessary. The best option is Miami Metrorail (heavy rail rapid transit), which has a station at MIA reachable by a people mover from the terminals, but hauling luggage onto a local rapid transit train may not be ideal, plus Metrorail is known to have service issues.

Actually Virgin Trains should help MCO more than MIA. Not only is the train station at MCO, it’s actually in terminal C, which will be the future international terminal. You literally don’t even have to leave the building to go from plane to train. You could use MCO as your main transportation hub, connecting your train to South Florida with your flights and whatever transportation you choose for getting around Central Florida.

Amchi757300 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

Amchi757300 wrote:

I grew up in the Orlando area and I can assure you there is a significant jewish population in Central FL. I hope this flight is a success!

I'm curious to know where? Surely not south of the 417 or west of I4.

Lake Mary, Longwood, Winter Springs, Altamonte Springs (Seminole County really), Winter Park, College Park, etc. Anecdotal evidence I suppose, but all my friends growing up were jewish and I have been to more bar/batmitzvahs than I can count - and i'm not jewish.

Orlando does not have a significant Jewish population, but the University of Florida(where I attended), has the largest Jewish student population in the US. Suprisingly, to me, UCF in Orlando now has the 3rd highest Jewish population after Rutgers at #2. I'm sure El Al can fill the once weekly flight just with birthright students during the summer months.

https://www.hillel.org/about/news-views ... population

mcogator wrote:

Amchi757300 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

I'm curious to know where? Surely not south of the 417 or west of I4.

Lake Mary, Longwood, Winter Springs, Altamonte Springs (Seminole County really), Winter Park, College Park, etc. Anecdotal evidence I suppose, but all my friends growing up were jewish and I have been to more bar/batmitzvahs than I can count - and i'm not jewish.

Orlando does not have a significant Jewish population, but the University of Florida(where I attended), has the largest Jewish student population in the US. Suprisingly, to me, UCF in Orlando now has the 3rd highest Jewish population after Rutgers at #2. I'm sure El Al can fill the once weekly flight just with birthright students during the summer months.

https://www.hillel.org/about/news-views ... population

Really! I would expect Maryland or YU

ORDfan101 wrote:

mcogator wrote:

Amchi757300 wrote:

Lake Mary, Longwood, Winter Springs, Altamonte Springs (Seminole County really), Winter Park, College Park, etc. Anecdotal evidence I suppose, but all my friends growing up were jewish and I have been to more bar/batmitzvahs than I can count - and i'm not jewish.

Orlando does not have a significant Jewish population, but the University of Florida(where I attended), has the largest Jewish student population in the US. Suprisingly, to me, UCF in Orlando now has the 3rd highest Jewish population after Rutgers at #2. I'm sure El Al can fill the once weekly flight just with birthright students during the summer months.

https://www.hillel.org/about/news-views ... population

Really! I would expect Maryland or YU

Given that UF's largest source of students is probalby South Florida, it makes sense.

I don't get why people keep focusing on Jewish populations. That's not what drives traffic on El Al's flights.

fsafsx wrote:

Chicagoland has 291,800 people that are Jewish. Don't you think that Chicago would get EL AL before a once a month and useless Orlando service?

MCO O&D traffic is only slightly behind that of ORD, a city 10x the size of Orlando. I would not call any service to MCO worthless.

https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/OandD_Rank.pdf

O&D rank 2018 6 months through June

1. LAX
2. JFK
3. ORD
4. SFO
5. MCO
6. LAS
7. DEN
8. ATL
9. BOS
10. EWR

MAH4546 wrote:

ORDfan101 wrote:

mcogator wrote:

Orlando does not have a significant Jewish population, but the University of Florida(where I attended), has the largest Jewish student population in the US. Suprisingly, to me, UCF in Orlando now has the 3rd highest Jewish population after Rutgers at #2. I'm sure El Al can fill the once weekly flight just with birthright students during the summer months.

https://www.hillel.org/about/news-views ... population

Really! I would expect Maryland or YU

Given that UF's largest source of students is probalby South Florida, it makes sense.

I don't get why people keep focusing on Jewish populations. That's not what drives traffic on El Al's flights.

UF draws Jewish students from all over the US, especially the NE, due to the fact of its largest Jewish student population and its top 10 academic rating of public institutions. Of course South Florida has the largest contingent, but there are significant numbers from NJ/NY. One of my best friends was from Michigan, and his gf from Ohio, and they specifically said the Jewish population was one of the reasons they chose UF.

windycity613 wrote:

Channex757 wrote:

LAS and MCO make a lot of sense. As well as business traffic and VFR, there are vacation possibilities both ways. Israelis want their holidays in reliably secure locations and the USA ticks those boxes. It's great to see LY moving outside of its prior niche of trunk routes and developing new markets.

As seasonal perhaps MCO will be work. However with Virgin Trains (formerly Brightline) service from MIA to MCO not sure how long the flight will survive. Just fly the TLV MIA non stop and hop on the Virgin Train to Orlando.

A Virgin train to Orlando will take you about 4 hours from Miami and cost you the same or more as a round-trip plane ticket from Miami. I don't see that being a hugely successful endeavor. I live in Orlando.

mcogator wrote:

fsafsx wrote:

Chicagoland has 291,800 people that are Jewish. Don't you think that Chicago would get EL AL before a once a month and useless Orlando service?

MCO O&D traffic is only slightly behind that of ORD, a city 10x the size of Orlando. I would not call any service to MCO worthless.

https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/OandD_Rank.pdf

O&D rank 2018 6 months through June

1. LAX
2. JFK
3. ORD
4. SFO
5. MCO
6. LAS
7. DEN
8. ATL
9. BOS
10. EWR

But we should compare OD traffic from OHare and Orlando to TelAviv, not just OD in general.

mcogator wrote:

fsafsx wrote:

Chicagoland has 291,800 people that are Jewish. Don't you think that Chicago would get EL AL before a once a month and useless Orlando service?

MCO O&D traffic is only slightly behind that of ORD, a city 10x the size of Orlando. I would not call any service to MCO worthless.

https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/OandD_Rank.pdf

O&D rank 2018 6 months through June

1. LAX
2. JFK
3. ORD
4. SFO
5. MCO
6. LAS
7. DEN
8. ATL
9. BOS
10. EWR

That chart is purposely misleading. Markets have multiple airports. Orlando is not the 5th largest O&D market; MCO is the 5th largest O&D airport. Both D.C. and Miami are larger O&D markets; clear from the chart combining the Houston or Dallas airports would not put them past Orlando, so Orlando is 7th.

Also with the whole Chicago/Orlando thing, people are reading to much into this. El Al clearly had some summer fleet slack to send a 777 to Orlando a total of eight times. That's all that this route is operating for. Chicago would be a year-round, multiple weekly frequency venture.

mcogator wrote:

Amchi757300 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

I'm curious to know where? Surely not south of the 417 or west of I4.

Lake Mary, Longwood, Winter Springs, Altamonte Springs (Seminole County really), Winter Park, College Park, etc. Anecdotal evidence I suppose, but all my friends growing up were jewish and I have been to more bar/batmitzvahs than I can count - and i'm not jewish.

Orlando does not have a significant Jewish population, but the University of Florida(where I attended), has the largest Jewish student population in the US. Suprisingly, to me, UCF in Orlando now has the 3rd highest Jewish population after Rutgers at #2. I'm sure El Al can fill the once weekly flight just with birthright students during the summer months.

https://www.hillel.org/about/news-views ... population

Hello, fellow UF alumnus!

What about crew rest? Will they really have a crew layover in MCO for a week? Only 5hr from getting to gate till it leaves agian... unless I missed something or crew laws are way diffent!

Well a week layover is going to be popular, start the bidding

MAH4546 wrote:

mcogator wrote:

fsafsx wrote:

Chicagoland has 291,800 people that are Jewish. Don't you think that Chicago would get EL AL before a once a month and useless Orlando service?

MCO O&D traffic is only slightly behind that of ORD, a city 10x the size of Orlando. I would not call any service to MCO worthless.

https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/OandD_Rank.pdf

O&D rank 2018 6 months through June

1. LAX
2. JFK
3. ORD
4. SFO
5. MCO
6. LAS
7. DEN
8. ATL
9. BOS
10. EWR

That chart is purposely misleading. Markets have multiple airports. Orlando is not the 5th largest O&D market; MCO is the 5th largest O&D airport. Both D.C. and Miami are larger O&D markets; clear from the chart combining the Houston or Dallas airports would not put them past Orlando, so Orlando is 7th.

Also with the whole Chicago/Orlando thing, people are reading to much into this. El Al clearly had some summer fleet slack to send a 777 to Orlando a total of eight times. That's all that this route is operating for. Chicago would be a year-round, multiple weekly frequency venture.

I would agree, there's this word called Patience. I'm sure EL AL knows what they're doing with and about Chicago.

jcwr56 wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

mcogator wrote:

MCO O&D traffic is only slightly behind that of ORD, a city 10x the size of Orlando. I would not call any service to MCO worthless.

https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/OandD_Rank.pdf

O&D rank 2018 6 months through June

1. LAX
2. JFK
3. ORD
4. SFO
5. MCO
6. LAS
7. DEN
8. ATL
9. BOS
10. EWR

That chart is purposely misleading. Markets have multiple airports. Orlando is not the 5th largest O&D market; MCO is the 5th largest O&D airport. Both D.C. and Miami are larger O&D markets; clear from the chart combining the Houston or Dallas airports would not put them past Orlando, so Orlando is 7th.

Also with the whole Chicago/Orlando thing, people are reading to much into this. El Al clearly had some summer fleet slack to send a 777 to Orlando a total of eight times. That's all that this route is operating for. Chicago would be a year-round, multiple weekly frequency venture.

I would agree, there's this word called Patience. I'm sure EL AL knows what they're doing with and about Chicago.

Why is it a foregone conclusion LY will fly to Chicago?

LAXdude1023 wrote:

jcwr56 wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

That chart is purposely misleading. Markets have multiple airports. Orlando is not the 5th largest O&D market; MCO is the 5th largest O&D airport. Both D.C. and Miami are larger O&D markets; clear from the chart combining the Houston or Dallas airports would not put them past Orlando, so Orlando is 7th.

Also with the whole Chicago/Orlando thing, people are reading to much into this. El Al clearly had some summer fleet slack to send a 777 to Orlando a total of eight times. That's all that this route is operating for. Chicago would be a year-round, multiple weekly frequency venture.

I would agree, there's this word called Patience. I'm sure EL AL knows what they're doing with and about Chicago.

Why is it a foregone conclusion LY will fly to Chicago?

Probably for the same reason MIA will get (East) Asian service. Hope.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

jcwr56 wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

That chart is purposely misleading. Markets have multiple airports. Orlando is not the 5th largest O&D market; MCO is the 5th largest O&D airport. Both D.C. and Miami are larger O&D markets; clear from the chart combining the Houston or Dallas airports would not put them past Orlando, so Orlando is 7th.

Also with the whole Chicago/Orlando thing, people are reading to much into this. El Al clearly had some summer fleet slack to send a 777 to Orlando a total of eight times. That's all that this route is operating for. Chicago would be a year-round, multiple weekly frequency venture.

I would agree, there's this word called Patience. I'm sure EL AL knows what they're doing with and about Chicago.

Why is it a foregone conclusion LY will fly to Chicago?

I believe LY is scared of UA opening ORD TLV.. There are not enough revenue pax for both UA and LY @ ORD. Once the IAD TLV starts, in May . UA will hopefully open ORD.

fpetrutiu wrote:

windycity613 wrote:

Channex757 wrote:

LAS and MCO make a lot of sense. As well as business traffic and VFR, there are vacation possibilities both ways. Israelis want their holidays in reliably secure locations and the USA ticks those boxes. It's great to see LY moving outside of its prior niche of trunk routes and developing new markets.

As seasonal perhaps MCO will be work. However with Virgin Trains (formerly Brightline) service from MIA to MCO not sure how long the flight will survive. Just fly the TLV MIA non stop and hop on the Virgin Train to Orlando.

A Virgin train to Orlando will take you about 4 hours from Miami and cost you the same or more as a round-trip plane ticket from Miami. I don't see that being a hugely successful endeavor. I live in Orlando.

A Virgin Train Orlando to downtown Miami is supposed to take 3 hr 15 minutes. Predictions are about $50-$100 one way for coach which could easily end up being less than flying, especially considering the comfort level. Plus, the train will be more convenient, having no TSA checks, good frequency (16x a day), and if one is flying in on an international carrier, likely departing the same terminal. I don’t think flying is much competition for the train (I seriously doubt people who aren’t connecting in MIA fly there from MCO). The competition is driving. That being said, I see my family (who live in Orlando and Miami) using the train a lot. This are very excited for it.

tjh8402 wrote:

fpetrutiu wrote:

windycity613 wrote:

As seasonal perhaps MCO will be work. However with Virgin Trains (formerly Brightline) service from MIA to MCO not sure how long the flight will survive. Just fly the TLV MIA non stop and hop on the Virgin Train to Orlando.

A Virgin train to Orlando will take you about 4 hours from Miami and cost you the same or more as a round-trip plane ticket from Miami. I don't see that being a hugely successful endeavor. I live in Orlando.

A Virgin Train Orlando to downtown Miami is supposed to take 3 hr 15 minutes. Predictions are about $50-$100 one way for coach which could easily end up being less than flying, especially considering the comfort level. Plus, the train will be more convenient, having no TSA checks, good frequency (16x a day), and if one is flying in on an international carrier, likely departing the same terminal. I don’t think flying is much competition for the train (I seriously doubt people who aren’t connecting in MIA fly there from MCO). The competition is driving. That being said, I see my family (who live in Orlando and Miami) using the train a lot. This are very excited for it.

People in Orlando are not excited at all about the project. I mean why would I use it if I can drive in the same time (using FL Turnpike). You are right, driving is the main competition, however the train will open up better connection for people in MCO to Cocoa, Melbourne, VeroBeach, Port St. Lucie, and West Palm to a lesser extent. It will give them convenient access to a major international airport (MCO) with many non-stop destinations. So, in terms of air traffic, it does make sense. In terms of tourism and city-to-city travel not so much. Most, if not all passengers on MCO-MIA or MCO-FLL in case of JetBlue and Spirit are connecting anyways to further destinations. People living in Orlando or Miami will continue to drive (those who are able to). Oh, on a last note, neither Miami and definitely not Orlando have a good public transport system once you arrive in the city.

Inaugural was today. According to press release, flight was a little more than half full.

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2019/ ... is-summer/

ORDfan101 wrote:

WHY NOT ORD YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Royal Jordanian

MAH4546 wrote:

I don't get why people keep focusing on Jewish populations. That's not what drives traffic on El Al's flights.

Thank you!!! I was wondering when someone would realize this.

I saw the inaugural going on, the governor was there so this was a big deal.

So what was last week about? I thought it inaugurated last week, with the 787-9. I thought it was interesting there was no water cannon salute or much buzz from MCO about it.