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WIederling
Posts: 9311
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Re: [Rumor] Airbus to announce end of A380 production

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:30 am

EChid wrote:
The A380 also has the 'benefit' of probably having bad secondary market prospects, so if a carrier can't sell them or scrap them for much they may just decide to keep flying them.


Rofl.
you'll see a repeat of the 757 saga. posters here will lament the end of production for 40 years
while the last cherished A380 frames are kept running with handwoven GLARE patches and other Bandaids. :-)))))
Murphy is an optimist
 
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piedmontf284000
Posts: 465
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:34 am

I keep thinking about all the airports worldwide that have retrofitted their airports for the A380, or even worse completely built the airport for massive influx of A380's. They spent hundreds of millions reinforcing and widening taxiways, aprons, and runways; they built new concourses and gate areas with double and triple jet bridges to handle these behemoths. Not sure of the ROI for these airports, because the A380 will continue to fly for another decade, but between now and five years from now, I believe there will only be half a dozen airlines still operating the whale. So for airports like DXB, was the moumental costs worth it?
 
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flee
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:36 am

TC957 wrote:
I'm wondering how this news will go down with ANA. They might have got to really love their 3 A380's and want a few more. Oh well.

ANA is happy with the "cost" of getting Skymark and its HND slots, preventing competitors from getting them!
 
EuroKick
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:38 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I keep thinking about all the airports worldwide that have retrofitted their airports for the A380, or even worse completely built the airport for massive influx of A380's. They spent hundreds of millions reinforcing and widening taxiways, aprons, and runways; they built new concourses and gate areas with double and triple jet bridges to handle these behemoths. Not sure of the ROI for these airports, because the A380 will continue to fly for another decade, but between now and five years from now, I believe there will only be half a dozen airlines still operating the whale. So for airports like DXB, was the moumental costs worth it?


They’re still going to be in service for a long time!
 
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Finn350
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:52 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I keep thinking about all the airports worldwide that have retrofitted their airports for the A380, or even worse completely built the airport for massive influx of A380's. They spent hundreds of millions reinforcing and widening taxiways, aprons, and runways; they built new concourses and gate areas with double and triple jet bridges to handle these behemoths. Not sure of the ROI for these airports, because the A380 will continue to fly for another decade, but between now and five years from now, I believe there will only be half a dozen airlines still operating the whale. So for airports like DXB, was the moumental costs worth it?


Dubai A380 terminal started in 2008 and will probably serve A380 operations well into 2030s. After at least 25 years of A380 operations, it most likely will have filled its purpose.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:00 am

I can see ANA's three frames ending their lives at BA eventually
 
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angusjt
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:02 am

A sad day indeed, makes you wonder how long airlines will keep them in service beyond 2021.

I'm very glad i'v been able to fly on atleast one (SQ863 HKG-SIN back in 2016), and i'm looking forward to flying many more in the future.
 
Strato2
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:08 am

Sad Day for longhaul pax especially in Y.
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3782
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:16 am

I am trying to get the final production numbers. EK has 109 A380s on the moment, so they will take 123 in the end? Their 109th was the 237th built. 6 more (4 for Emirates, 2 for ANA) are flying but still to be delivered. In total 14+3 will be delivered making a production of 254 aircraft?
Indeed some striking similarities with the Tristar production run:
- 250 and 254 built
- Plagued with delays and problems around the first flight and test phase (Tristar due to the engines, A380 with the crosswiring)
- Loved by aviation fans as technical miracle but also critisized for being overly complicated and inefficient
- Both had an airline who flew almost half of the whole fleet at one moment or another (Tristar: DL, A380: EK)
- In the end just a footnote in aviation history and not the game changer the OEM had hoped to make.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
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Carlos01
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:37 am

angusjt wrote:
A sad day indeed, makes you wonder how long airlines will keep them in service beyond 2021.

I'm very glad i'v been able to fly on atleast one (SQ863 HKG-SIN back in 2016), and i'm looking forward to flying many more in the future.


I've had the opportunity to fly once Paris-Johannesburg on AF A380 business. Once Johannesburg-LHR on BA A380 also on business. Once ZRH-DXB-ZRH on EK A380 economy. Can say that the BA one sucked the most (seats are like from 1980's Tupolev) - AF was ok, Emirates even in Eco was pretty awesome.

And it IS a sad day. At the same time one has to think, what is not adding up here? Both the 747 and the A380 are loved by pilots and passengers, premium eco offerings increasing worldwide - which means that people are willing to pay a decent premium for "something a bit better". Myself included, I am willing to commute a long distance to reach an airport with an A380-service (or 747-8) to my final destination, if the flight ticket is not too much more expensive compared to an A330/A321ER -service from an airport near me.

Could it be that the aircrafts themselves are actually pretty ok as a product, but just the airlines have not been able to equip and market them up to their full potential? I think really the biggest customer of the A380 - the Emirates - is pretty much the only one, and even they could have done better. With Emirates you know you'll get an airbus -service to anywhere in the world at an affordable price and good service - not an aircrammedtunatin -service at the lowest possible cost risking your own health, life even, without even a complementary glass of water.

Maybe it is just ironic, but the last few years have been an eye-opener in my opinion for future or air travel, there are more and more people every year in the world who can afford, and are willing to pay, for additional comfort. And yeah, sure, the 777X and 350K will for sure be able to offer the premium-eco experiences at lower cost - but they're just not the same.
 
AirbusA6
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:51 am

A sad day for aviation, which is becoming a dull world really, with everything being a twin engined tube and smaller manufacturers being squeezed out.

Somehow travelling in the A380 just felt more exciting than a "normal" plane.

Living in London at least I'll be able to catch A380s for years to come.
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
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Matt6461
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:52 am

idp5601 wrote:
even a well-designed A380 is still too much plane for most airlines in the world.


blerghhh.

A380's fuel consumption and terrible design had nothing to with its terrible performance on the market. Keep telling yourself that.
 
macc
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:55 am

As sad as the end of the line for the big bird is, at least we will see a bit more diverse fleet again at EK.
The 380 is unmatched in comfort for me (with looooots of flights with EK each year...)

But nice to see that the 350 will arrive there. Aloing with 777x and 330neos and perhaps 787 (which I don't think likely at the moment), flying EK won't be as boring as it is today ;)
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
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seahawk
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:59 am

The much more interesting question for Airbus is: What now?

They got assembly space, they got workers and the development team has little work left when you look at the announced products. Maybe it is time to take some projects from the shelf?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:06 am

randomdude83 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
I'm wondering how this news will go down with ANA. They might have got to really love their 3 A380's and want a few more. Oh well.


I'm hoping Airbus signaled All airlines (I'm looking at you BA, ANA, etc) to make a now or never move on the a380s before today's announcement.

I'd be very Surprised if any of the airlines go back to Airbus begging for a few more A380s before the end.


Of course Airbus would have told any possibly interested airlines that they needed to put up or shut up. And soon.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:06 am

This decision is a good economic decision to take. For us enthusiasts, it is a black day in history. Perhaps the A380 came too early, Such a shame we will never see the A380-900/1000.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:06 am

The A380 won't even match its original (but long-revised upward) break even target of 270 aircraft.

Ouch.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
smartplane
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:07 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Prost wrote:
So far there has been no word from EK regarding 787-10 nor 778/9 orders. The story is still developing. And I expect we’ll hear more soon enough.


Probably, though I’m not sure what the urgency would be on EK’s part? The 787 is just an mou and any 777X topup order seems almost superfluous at this point.

Extending all but the earliest A380 leases for a further 2-3 years, removes the need for an A380 replacement to the mid-20's or later, depending on growth.
 
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Asturias
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:08 am

Wonderful business decision - oh yes. Like when Boeing scrapped the 757 in 2004 because of the exact same reasons, i.e when Continental decided to switch their 752 orders to 738. Boeing patted themselves on the back for that decisions with accountants and a.net "experts" as cheerleaders on the sideline.

I mean, the 738 was basically a better more efficient 752, amrite? Oh wait. No it wasn't. Not even comparable planes.

Nor are the 779 or 359 comparable to what the 380 offers.

Boeing moved to Chicago and became a holding company and the once forward looking and agile Airbus Industrie became "AIRBUS SE" without the vortex logo, without Leahy and without a spine.

I'm seriously disillusioned with the aviation industry. There's no vision any more.
Tonight we fly
 
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glideslope
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Re: [Rumor] Airbus to announce end of A380 production

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:03 am

Planeflyer wrote:
glideslope wrote:
seahawk wrote:
The new leadership probably wanted that big problem off the table.


I would agree with this statement as being the most influential on the decision to end A380 production. The new leadership team at Airbus has a very different global view than prior teams IMO. They also have a far greater "reality based" view of EU economics pertaining as to what is or is not viable. Airbus going forward will have far greater expectations in terms of revenue.


FWIW AB stock price is close to all time highs and as advanced 15% just this week.


A direct result of the long anticipated end of A380 production from the new Leadership Team. I don't see ending A380 production as a negative for Airbus in the least. If anything it is a weight lifted off their shoulders freeing up additional resources to address markets with far higher needs.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
Aither
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:10 am

Too bad. The A380 is a real cash machine for us. We need it for our network. Hope Boeing will launch a bigger 77X.
Never trust the obvious
 
Bongodog49
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:16 am

seahawk wrote:
The much more interesting question for Airbus is: What now?

They got assembly space, they got workers and the development team has little work left when you look at the announced products. Maybe it is time to take some projects from the shelf?


That's my 1st question, what is Airbus going to do with that massive factory space at TLS, its has seemed for a while that they are desperately short of space for the A350 (temporary hangars for rework and a number of moves between buildings for the normal production process) whilst there's a huge facility the other side of the airfield doing less and less.
I posed much the same question a few days back regarding Boeing and the huge space devoted to the 747 now being under utilised.
 
Aither
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:24 am

randomdude83 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
I'm wondering how this news will go down with ANA. They might have got to really love their 3 A380's and want a few more. Oh well.


I'm hoping Airbus signaled All airlines (I'm looking at you BA, ANA, etc) to make a now or never move on the a380s before today's announcement.

I'd be very Surprised if any of the airlines go back to Airbus begging for a few more A380s before the end.


They did not and this was a very unpleasant surprise.

Nothing can replace A380s in term of value to optimize a network. Expect to see changes on hub structure. This will mean more flights, not good for the environment. Airbus was very bad in promoting this aircraft: the whole point was not to replace 2 flights to reduce airport congestion but to allow to reduce connections waves at the hubs.
I'm convinced we will see the 757 scenario to repeat itself.
Never trust the obvious
 
LupineChemist
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:31 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I keep thinking about all the airports worldwide that have retrofitted their airports for the A380, or even worse completely built the airport for massive influx of A380's. They spent hundreds of millions reinforcing and widening taxiways, aprons, and runways; they built new concourses and gate areas with double and triple jet bridges to handle these behemoths. Not sure of the ROI for these airports, because the A380 will continue to fly for another decade, but between now and five years from now, I believe there will only be half a dozen airlines still operating the whale. So for airports like DXB, was the moumental costs worth it?


IIRC, isn't it the same requirements of 77X (save the third jet bridge) as a code F stand?
 
VV
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:32 am

Will this trigger a question from the US trade representative relative to the RLI?
 
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Finn350
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:43 am

LupineChemist wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
I keep thinking about all the airports worldwide that have retrofitted their airports for the A380, or even worse completely built the airport for massive influx of A380's. They spent hundreds of millions reinforcing and widening taxiways, aprons, and runways; they built new concourses and gate areas with double and triple jet bridges to handle these behemoths. Not sure of the ROI for these airports, because the A380 will continue to fly for another decade, but between now and five years from now, I believe there will only be half a dozen airlines still operating the whale. So for airports like DXB, was the moumental costs worth it?


IIRC, isn't it the same requirements of 77X (save the third jet bridge) as a code F stand?


They don’t have to fold the 777X wings on an A380 stand if that is what you mean.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:46 am

The reality is that it is better to have too few coach seats then not enough. Airlines really only make money on the premium seats, and lose on the cheap seats. But for a few airports and flights, the A380 and B747 offer too many seats with too much in costs for fuel with 4 engines and with ETOPS making 4 engines unnecessary. Yes it is sad to see these huge, great feats of engineering to be no longer made in the near future, but the market and airlines have spoken, they need to make profits, not have too big aircraft they can only fill with highly discounted and unprofitable fares.
 
WIederling
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:49 am

Aither wrote:
Nothing can replace A380s in term of value to optimize a network. Expect to see changes on hub structure. This will mean more flights, not good for the environment. Airbus was very bad in promoting this aircraft: the whole point was not to replace 2 flights to reduce airport congestion but to allow to reduce connections waves at the hubs.
I'm convinced we will see the 757 scenario to repeat itself.


dinosaur alley.
In a "frequency" environment any competitor that starts to size up the bucket and reduces frequency is destined to fail.
Independent of that mode being much more efficient. That market is formed by the bottle it lives in.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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par13del
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:51 am

So for me, the BBC link on the story is listed below, and below that one of my interest in the story.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47231504

We are told that development cost for the A380 were written off, in all the A380 threads the discussion of RLI has been beaten around to death. Whether the snippet
in the article is accurate or not, a debate on it has to be put aside until later. In time I guess the point will be debated, however, since we know the a/c will be gracing the sky's for decades to come, the financial aspects of the decision will be felt and must be dealt with long before the last a/c goes to the scrapper, remember, the financial houses are what drives the business.

"Airbus has taken a €463m charge for shutdown costs, but it is expected that the repayment of government loans could be waived to help cushion the blow."
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:53 am

Not quite sure how you can call this "official" when. There is no comment about it from Airbus and it is simply hyperbole and conjecture on the part of Reuters. I'll wait until Airbus makes a formal announcement before I listen to the A.net rumor mill. I agree a termination is likely, but I will wait to hear from the manufacturer instead of the Monday morning quarterbacks on here.
My other car is an A320-200
 
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Polot
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:01 pm

A320FlyGuy wrote:
Not quite sure how you can call this "official" when. There is no comment about it from Airbus and it is simply hyperbole and conjecture on the part of Reuters. I'll wait until Airbus makes a formal announcement before I listen to the A.net rumor mill. I agree a termination is likely, but I will wait to hear from the manufacturer instead of the Monday morning quarterbacks on here.

You mean like the news buried in this press release: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... rders.html

;)

The original post was from yesterday when this was still a rumor. The title of the thread was changed when the rumor was officially confirmed.
 
mzlin
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:05 pm

A320FlyGuy wrote:
Not quite sure how you can call this "official" when. There is no comment about it from Airbus and it is simply hyperbole and conjecture on the part of Reuters. I'll wait until Airbus makes a formal announcement before I listen to the A.net rumor mill. I agree a termination is likely, but I will wait to hear from the manufacturer instead of the Monday morning quarterbacks on here.


I guess you were looking for this? https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... rders.html

It was in the thread above, or you can google for Airbus to find it in the latest news. Understandable perhaps that disbelief kept you from doing that.

Reuters was right, no hyperbole or conjecture. Enders himself said it was painful, while Reuters refrained from any editorializing.
Last edited by mzlin on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:06 pm

seahawk wrote:
The much more interesting question for Airbus is: What now?

They got assembly space, they got workers and the development team has little work left when you look at the announced products. Maybe it is time to take some projects from the shelf?


What about developing new-build freighters in the narrow- and wide-body segments? An A321neo-based freighter, an A338neo-based freighter (at 251t), and an A359-based freighter (at 280t)?
 
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Finn350
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:15 pm

par13del wrote:
So for me, the BBC link on the story is listed below, and below that one of my interest in the story.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47231504

We are told that development cost for the A380 were written off, in all the A380 threads the discussion of RLI has been beaten around to death. Whether the snippet
in the article is accurate or not, a debate on it has to be put aside until later. In time I guess the point will be debated, however, since we know the a/c will be gracing the sky's for decades to come, the financial aspects of the decision will be felt and must be dealt with long before the last a/c goes to the scrapper, remember, the financial houses are what drives the business.

"Airbus has taken a €463m charge for shutdown costs, but it is expected that the repayment of government loans could be waived to help cushion the blow."


The charge is related to ramping down the A380 production line, laying off or re-training the workers etc. The charge is not related to development cost which is written off.
 
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par13del
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:18 pm

Ok with the charge, the last portion of the sentence is the relevant one as it relates to RLI.
 
bigjku
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:19 pm

par13del wrote:
So for me, the BBC link on the story is listed below, and below that one of my interest in the story.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47231504

We are told that development cost for the A380 were written off, in all the A380 threads the discussion of RLI has been beaten around to death. Whether the snippet
in the article is accurate or not, a debate on it has to be put aside until later. In time I guess the point will be debated, however, since we know the a/c will be gracing the sky's for decades to come, the financial aspects of the decision will be felt and must be dealt with long before the last a/c goes to the scrapper, remember, the financial houses are what drives the business.

"Airbus has taken a €463m charge for shutdown costs, but it is expected that the repayment of government loans could be waived to help cushion the blow."


They can’t waive RLI repayment. Those loans are made on commercial terms.
 
musman9853
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:24 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
-They are taking 14 remaining A388.
-40x 339 (1:1 the same as 78X MoU)
-30x A359

How long until we see some sort of Boeing press release about the 78X and 779?



78J seems done. 777x though, they haven't ordered enough a350 to replace, so they still probably want some
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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Polot
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:26 pm

bigjku wrote:
par13del wrote:
So for me, the BBC link on the story is listed below, and below that one of my interest in the story.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47231504

We are told that development cost for the A380 were written off, in all the A380 threads the discussion of RLI has been beaten around to death. Whether the snippet
in the article is accurate or not, a debate on it has to be put aside until later. In time I guess the point will be debated, however, since we know the a/c will be gracing the sky's for decades to come, the financial aspects of the decision will be felt and must be dealt with long before the last a/c goes to the scrapper, remember, the financial houses are what drives the business.

"Airbus has taken a €463m charge for shutdown costs, but it is expected that the repayment of government loans could be waived to help cushion the blow."


They can’t waive RLI repayment. Those loans are made on commercial terms.

Yes outright waiving them would probably send alarm bells off in the US (and ultimately WTO) as it would basically outright contradict the arguments Airbus/the EU has been making about them. Of course you might see creative “repackaging” over the terms of the repayment.
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: [Rumor] Airbus to announce end of A380 production

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:28 pm

UA444 wrote:
I still think without the A380 the 747-8 does have some future passenger orders. There are still airlines that have a use for a large plane like that.


Never say never, it might just be the case with the 747-8i. Obviously, I’d be thrilled to see new life breathed into the passenger version. The cargo freighter version will go on in production, indefinitely.
 
musman9853
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Re: [Rumor] Airbus to announce end of A380 production

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:28 pm

WIederling wrote:
EChid wrote:
The A380 also has the 'benefit' of probably having bad secondary market prospects, so if a carrier can't sell them or scrap them for much they may just decide to keep flying them.


Rofl.
you'll see a repeat of the 757 saga. posters here will lament the end of production for 40 years
while the last cherished A380 frames are kept running with handwoven GLARE patches and other Bandaids. :-)))))



Multiple airlines are already retiring their birds. SQ,AF, QR, EK, etc
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
ELBOB
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:31 pm

MEA-707 wrote:
- Loved by aviation fans as technical miracle but also critisized for being overly complicated and inefficient


On the contrary I remember the collective 'meh' from aviation fans when the A3XX designs were revealed. A bigger tube, with bigger wings; a badge-engineered MD-12. It was pretty clear back then that Airbus had chickened-out of doing something truly revolutionary, and here we are today as a result. What a waste of money and effort.
 
musman9853
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:33 pm

Aither wrote:
randomdude83 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
I'm wondering how this news will go down with ANA. They might have got to really love their 3 A380's and want a few more. Oh well.


I'm hoping Airbus signaled All airlines (I'm looking at you BA, ANA, etc) to make a now or never move on the a380s before today's announcement.

I'd be very Surprised if any of the airlines go back to Airbus begging for a few more A380s before the end.


They did not and this was a very unpleasant surprise.

Nothing can replace A380s in term of value to optimize a network. Expect to see changes on hub structure. This will mean more flights, not good for the environment. Airbus was very bad in promoting this aircraft: the whole point was not to replace 2 flights to reduce airport congestion but to allow to reduce connections waves at the hubs.
I'm convinced we will see the 757 scenario to repeat itself.


Oh come. The writing had been on the wall for the a380 for years. If anyone really wanted more a380s they'd have bought them
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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United787
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:36 pm

The Whale has been beached, RIP.
 
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Finn350
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:36 pm

par13del wrote:
Ok with the charge, the last portion of the sentence is the relevant one as it relates to RLI.


Airbus took a charge of 463 million euros for shutdown costs, but is expected to be forgiven some 1 billion euros of outstanding European government loans under a funding system that stands at the centre of a trade dispute with Boeing.


Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/14/reuters ... slump.html

The loan repayment is apparently conditional to the A380 launch being successful. Apparently, by loan terms and conditions, the A380 launch has been a partial failure and they don't have to repay part of the loan. Or that is how I read it.
 
claudiofalcao
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:41 pm

At the end of that process, the Boeing won.
The 747 still on production (for a short time although);
The 777 will become the flagship for the major airliners.
Flew, as a passenger, on B727-200, 737-200/300/400/800, 747-300, 757-200, 767-300, 777-200, A310, A319, A320 Ceo/Neo, A321, DC-10, MD-87, MD-11, E-190, E-195.
 
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PPVLC
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:44 pm

Sad. Fantastic plane, best rides of my life.
Cabin crew L188 707 727 737 767 A300 DC10 MD11 777 747
 
bigjku
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Polot wrote:
bigjku wrote:
par13del wrote:
So for me, the BBC link on the story is listed below, and below that one of my interest in the story.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47231504

We are told that development cost for the A380 were written off, in all the A380 threads the discussion of RLI has been beaten around to death. Whether the snippet
in the article is accurate or not, a debate on it has to be put aside until later. In time I guess the point will be debated, however, since we know the a/c will be gracing the sky's for decades to come, the financial aspects of the decision will be felt and must be dealt with long before the last a/c goes to the scrapper, remember, the financial houses are what drives the business.

"Airbus has taken a €463m charge for shutdown costs, but it is expected that the repayment of government loans could be waived to help cushion the blow."


They can’t waive RLI repayment. Those loans are made on commercial terms.

Yes outright waiving them would probably send alarm bells off in the US (and ultimately WTO) as it would basically outright contradict the arguments Airbus/the EU has been making about them. Of course you might see creative “repackaging” over the terms of the repayment.


No no no.

Airbus is a profitable business and as these are loans on commercial terms there should be zero need to repackage. The terms of the deals seem like simple royalty provisions on the aircraft funded. Presumably if those royalties don’t cover the loan there are provisions to have the successful entity pay at the very least all the principal lent plus a reasonable return. It’s common commercial lending practice after all to have the company itself be liable for the repayment even if the project being funded doesn’t work out.

Implying otherwise would be to say that RLI is really equity but that can’t be right because the going rate for equity returns is much much higher.
 
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OA940
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:52 pm

That's too bad. I know the program overall wasn't a success, but the A380 is a great aircraft for passengers, and it's one hell of a sight to see at any airport.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 903
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:05 pm

Please don't. This is the last plane that has decent 3-4-3 seating.
 
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DL717
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Re: Official: Airbus announces A380 production to end in 2021

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:07 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
I keep thinking about all the airports worldwide that have retrofitted their airports for the A380, or even worse completely built the airport for massive influx of A380's. They spent hundreds of millions reinforcing and widening taxiways, aprons, and runways; they built new concourses and gate areas with double and triple jet bridges to handle these behemoths. Not sure of the ROI for these airports, because the A380 will continue to fly for another decade, but between now and five years from now, I believe there will only be half a dozen airlines still operating the whale. So for airports like DXB, was the moumental costs worth it?


This is perhaps the worst thing this aircraft has caused. It’s one thing to spend company money on a project, but the amount of public money spent for this thing to support it from Taxiway relocations and Terminal expansions is just embarrassing. Nevermind what Europe spent to move parts for assembly. They had to come up with a complete new set of airfield design criteria which consumed months and months of regulatory resources. For what? A 15 year program? What a joke.
Last edited by DL717 on Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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