wernerga3
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American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:34 pm

Hey all!

I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to airplane cabins and their changes over the years- particularly first class cabins. With all of that known, there is one cabin that is somewhat sentimental that I am having trouble tracking. The AA 767 which was delivered to AA in the early 1980s, and its interior changes over the years.

The first time I flew in first class was in 2007 when I flew LAX-JFK on an AA 767-200. It featured the old first class cabin with 9 seats (strangest layout I have ever studied) and the seats were Weber grey leather seats that I believe had been reupholstered from the previous sheepskin days. It was most likely the very end of that seat's era as the new non-fully-flat all business class seats would come in 2008.

Here is how I think it went, but any help and or photos would help put this to rest. It also gets confusing because they introduced the 767-300 along the way in all of this and that would end up having different cabins as I understand.

Here is a link of a photo I made with all the seats
https://imgur.com/a/YtTqaom

1982-1987: Grey Leather Weber Seats 2-2-2
1987-1992: Grey Leather & Sheepskin Weber Sleepers 2-1-2
1992-1999: Grey Leather Weber Sleepers 2-1-2
1999-2008: Dark Blue Leather & Fabric Sleepers 2-1-2
2008-2017: Blue & Gray Sleepers 2-2-2 (Strange non-fully-flat)
2017-Present: Blue & Gray Sleepers 1-2-1


Please school me- particularly on the early years!
 
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American 767
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:10 pm

Interesting. Thanks for the timeline and for the pictures.
By looking at my username, it is needless to say I have flown on a lot of those since the late 80s when American started flying the 767 on TATL routes to Europe. I do not doubt about your knowledge but I just want to point out that in the 80s and 90s the leather seats in F and C cabins were light brown, not gray. I remember very well. And it wasn't just on the 767s that they were brown, they were on all other aircraft as well.
It is at this point useless to modify the F Class seats again, there would be absolutely no point in doing so, since the 767s are on their way out with the last one scheduled to leave the fleet at the end of 2021, beginning of 2022 at the latest.
Nice review. Thanks for posting.
Ben Soriano
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:02 am

American 767 wrote:
Interesting. Thanks for the timeline and for the pictures.
By looking at my username, it is needless to say I have flown on a lot of those since the late 80s when American started flying the 767 on TATL routes to Europe. I do not doubt about your knowledge but I just want to point out that in the 80s and 90s the leather seats in F and C cabins were light brown, not gray. I remember very well. And it wasn't just on the 767s that they were brown, they were on all other aircraft as well.
It is at this point useless to modify the F Class seats again, there would be absolutely no point in doing so, since the 767s are on their way out with the last one scheduled to leave the fleet at the end of 2021, beginning of 2022 at the latest.
Nice review. Thanks for posting.


Thanks for the response! Great that you get to fly them- a beautiful bird. I doubt they'll do any more mods to the cabin- as you said it is going into retirement soon. I believe the 767 got the ETOPs certification in 1985- shortly after delivery to AA (a few years later).

I'd still kill for some era photos as the older cabins are very hard to find pictures of!
 
HPAEAA
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:48 am

wernerga3 wrote:
1982-1987: Grey Leather Weber Seats 2-2-2
1987-1992: Grey Leather & Sheepskin Weber Sleepers 2-1-2
1992-1999: Grey Leather Weber Sleepers 2-1-2
1999-2008: Dark Blue Leather & Fabric Sleepers 2-1-2
2008-2017: Blue & Gray Sleepers 2-2-2 (Strange non-fully-flat)
2017-Present: Blue & Gray Sleepers 1-2-1


Please school me- particularly on the early years!

Thanks for posting, kind of interesting to see the evolution on J class through the years with a single aircraft family...

So from my experience, the 762 & 763 diverged in that the 762 never was updated beyond the ‘99-‘08 seat you mentioned, and also that the 762 had a 1-1-1 F cabin and a 2-1-2 J cabin through it’s retirement around 2012/2013... the 763 tracks closer to your timeline in my experience but I seem to recall flying the new J configuration “sleepers” as early as 2015 on a JFK-MAD flight, I was a little curious to see the adapted lay flat seat they had installed vs the 773j seat.
1.4mm and counting...
 
OB1504
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:34 am

HPAEAA wrote:
the 763 tracks closer to your timeline in my experience but I seem to recall flying the new J configuration “sleepers” as early as 2015 on a JFK-MAD flight, I was a little curious to see the adapted lay flat seat they had installed vs the 773j seat.


AA began installing the new J product on the 763 in 2014.
 
MKIAZ
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:38 am

HPAEAA wrote:
and also that the 762 had a 1-1-1 F cabin and a 2-1-2 J cabin through it’s retirement around 2012/2013..


Pretty sure it was 2-1-2 in F (the with the captain kirk middle seat) and 2-2-2- in J.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:53 am

MKIAZ wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
and also that the 762 had a 1-1-1 F cabin and a 2-1-2 J cabin through it’s retirement around 2012/2013..


Pretty sure it was 2-1-2 in F (the with the captain kirk middle seat) and 2-2-2- in J.

Honestly - working from memory, so quite possible.. on J I think your right, 2-2-2 makes sense, on F, the only references I can find via google are and f count of 9 on the 762.. how did they set that up?
1.4mm and counting...
 
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KLM11
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:58 am

As a kid I remember flying LAX-MIA with my parents on an AA 767 around Thanksgiving 2000. Not sure if it was a -200 or -300. The flight was continuing onward to FRA.

I remember being taken aback at how spacious F was and am almost positive the seats there had some sheepskin/leather upholstery combination. 2-1-2 was the layout, but IIRC there were more than 9 seats in F; DepartedFlights shows an AA 763 with 15 F seats circa 1995.

Helpful link:
departedflights.com

Kind regards,
KLM11
BENAIRE - The Refined Airline
 
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CARST
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:13 am

American 767 wrote:
I just want to point out that in the 80s and 90s the leather seats in F and C cabins were light brown, not gray.


I think these seats can be seen in "Home Alone" or "Home Alone 2 - Lost in New York". Or both. Could have also been a DC-10. But it was the same timeframe, late 80s to early 90s, so I would have guessed the same seats. Definitely looking brown if you look at the scenes on YouTube...
 
Tan Flyr
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:53 pm

I recall those seats as well from several trips in that time frame to SCL. I think in some light, or perhaps variation of leathers, the light browns could be construed as a "putty" color, or greyish.
either way, those seats were darn comfortable for their time.
 
MKIAZ
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:00 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
MKIAZ wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
and also that the 762 had a 1-1-1 F cabin and a 2-1-2 J cabin through it’s retirement around 2012/2013..


Pretty sure it was 2-1-2 in F (the with the captain kirk middle seat) and 2-2-2- in J.

Honestly - working from memory, so quite possible.. on J I think your right, 2-2-2 makes sense, on F, the only references I can find via google are and f count of 9 on the 762.. how did they set that up?


There were 10 seats. It's in the picture in the first post. The only pic with 1 seat in the middle.
 
N649DL
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:28 pm

I remember flying the AA 767s and 763s after 2000, starting in 2002 to 2008 mainly. My first time flying the 763 was in August 2002 on DFW-HNL and had the newer blue seats with adjustable headrests but older bulkheads (1980s looking with clouds, looked like out of a cartoon.) The J cabin had the updated recliners which I traveled in from time to time and were very comfortable.

Prior to that, I have no idea when AA replaced it's older coach 767 seats with the blue ones. Was it like 1997-1998? Also anyone remember when AA installed PTVs on their A306s and then ripped them out? Check out this oddball seat color scheme, and those screens were huge for the time!

https://www.alamy.com/aircraft-interior-economy-american-airlines-airbus-a300-image312891.html
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:33 pm

N649DL wrote:
I remember flying the AA 767s and 763s after 2000, starting in 2002 to 2008 mainly. My first time flying the 763 was in August 2002 on DFW-HNL and had the newer blue seats with adjustable headrests but older bulkheads (1980s looking with clouds, looked like out of a cartoon.) The J cabin had the updated recliners which I traveled in from time to time and were very comfortable.

Prior to that, I have no idea when AA replaced it's older coach 767 seats with the blue ones. Was it like 1997-1998? Also anyone remember when AA installed PTVs on their A306s and then ripped them out? Check out this oddball seat color scheme, and those screens were huge for the time!

https://www.alamy.com/aircraft-interior-economy-american-airlines-airbus-a300-image312891.html

It always puzzled me that AA installed PTVs in their TATL-configured A300s but never did the same in the 763s. The new-batch 763s came delivered from Boeing with the 777-style interior and came equipped with equipment for PTVs in Y (handsets, underseat IFE boxes) but they never came through with installing them.

I know the 763s were 3-class at one point as well. When was F removed?
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Ziyulu
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:37 pm

And didn't AA had different overhead bins in J vs. Y? It looked like two aircraft joined together.
 
questions
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:02 pm

American 767 wrote:
Interesting. Thanks for the timeline and for the pictures.
By looking at my username, it is needless to say I have flown on a lot of those since the late 80s when American started flying the 767 on TATL routes to Europe. I do not doubt about your knowledge but I just want to point out that in the 80s and 90s the leather seats in F and C cabins were light brown, not gray. I remember very well. And it wasn't just on the 767s that they were brown, they were on all other aircraft as well.
It is at this point useless to modify the F Class seats again, there would be absolutely no point in doing so, since the 767s are on their way out with the last one scheduled to leave the fleet at the end of 2021, beginning of 2022 at the latest.
Nice review. Thanks for posting.


You are both almost right. The first class seats were taupe.

taupe
/tōp/
noun
gray with a tinge of brown.


Here’s a link to a non-767 example.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7795006104
 
N649DL
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:10 pm

USAirALB wrote:
N649DL wrote:
I remember flying the AA 767s and 763s after 2000, starting in 2002 to 2008 mainly. My first time flying the 763 was in August 2002 on DFW-HNL and had the newer blue seats with adjustable headrests but older bulkheads (1980s looking with clouds, looked like out of a cartoon.) The J cabin had the updated recliners which I traveled in from time to time and were very comfortable.

Prior to that, I have no idea when AA replaced it's older coach 767 seats with the blue ones. Was it like 1997-1998? Also anyone remember when AA installed PTVs on their A306s and then ripped them out? Check out this oddball seat color scheme, and those screens were huge for the time!

https://www.alamy.com/aircraft-interior-economy-american-airlines-airbus-a300-image312891.html

It always puzzled me that AA installed PTVs in their TATL-configured A300s but never did the same in the 763s. The new-batch 763s came delivered from Boeing with the 777-style interior and came equipped with equipment for PTVs in Y (handsets, underseat IFE boxes) but they never came through with installing them.

I know the 763s were 3-class at one point as well. When was F removed?


AA was cash strapped at the time. That would've been like 11 aircraft at most for the 763. The new models did get delivered with IFE boxes for them below the seat.

AA actually never addressed why they ripped the PTV out of the A300 after they pulled them off the LHR routes (odd choice for TATL to LHR to begin with.) I believe it was for weight saving reasons.
 
cha747
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:21 pm

I must be old. I remember flying the 767 in the 1980's when Luxury Liner was proudly painted on the front side of the plane. They were luxurious at the time. This was before the rise of the regional jet and jam-packed flight. Ahh...the golden days of flying.
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:17 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
MKIAZ wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
and also that the 762 had a 1-1-1 F cabin and a 2-1-2 J cabin through it’s retirement around 2012/2013..


Pretty sure it was 2-1-2 in F (the with the captain kirk middle seat) and 2-2-2- in J.

Honestly - working from memory, so quite possible.. on J I think your right, 2-2-2 makes sense, on F, the only references I can find via google are and f count of 9 on the 762.. how did they set that up?


First off- Thanks for the great responses so far. I am a big nerd and every chime in counts! Please lets try to find some more photos of the pre 777 look era. Very hard to find any photos with the sheepskin and still on the hunt. In the meantime, hopefully this can help with some of the confusion:

There was a first class setup with 14 seats in 2-1-2 which appears to be the 762 as of ETOPs ~1987. The center row had two singular seats, which is strange for any aircraft, and there were 12 seats on the outer rows arranged in 3 sets of 2 on either side. (see image link below)
1987 762 First: https://imgur.com/a/v1zoOHA

For that same 762 setup, there was a 2-2-2- F cabin, although I cannot find any pictures besides this very rare flight attendant training photo in which they appear to be using an old 762 cabin. You can see the first class cabin with its center single seat as well in this photo. I am not sure if these 2-2-2 seats had the sleeper leg adjustments like the first class cabin, but they also appeared to be sheepskin. (see image link below)
1987 762 Business: https://imgur.com/a/w7l2kZ8

This is the seating chart from that setup, the 762, as of 1987. As stated, there are 14 first class seats. (see image link below)
1987 762 Seating Chart: https://imgur.com/a/3VHiciH


Those 762 weber seats with the giant sheepskin inserts and seemingly separate leather headrests, are different from the terracotta/clay/gray/beige/whatever the hell color sheepskin weber seats which were featured in home alone and in nearly every 757 without the sheepskin insert for the next 100 years (see image link below)
Home Alone/ Other AA Sheepskin Shots (Different Weber Seat): https://imgur.com/a/AhR26ym


Later on, on certain 762s, there was a setup with 9 seats in 2-1-2 with only a single center aisle seat- I know I flew this configuration as I flew in 2C which was the only seat in the center of the cabin, and a strange seating experience. I remember the F cabin (which i had flown on the initial flight from JFK-LAX since first class was sold out) was the updated blue leather/fabric cabin of the 777- just without any screen/phone etc, yet the first class cabin had not been updated. I remember it was a gray leather though- not this black leather that I found a photo of. Also notice there was no sheepskin on these as that fad was out by 2007.
Late 762 First: https://imgur.com/a/2BR9qCI
 
aacun
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:06 am

I remember the 10 pax configuration. But not the 14 seater. When the seats went to a flat bed mode configuration we lost the other middle seat and that middle seat was a pilot crew rest seat maybe that’s when we lost the other row of seats on the sides. My first working trip with AA was in a 2 class configuration -200. It had ( I may be wrong on this number ) 24 seats up front......
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:08 am

aacun wrote:
I remember the 10 pax configuration. But not the 14 seater. When the seats went to a flat bed mode configuration we lost the other middle seat and that middle seat was a pilot crew rest seat maybe that’s when we lost the other row of seats on the sides. My first working trip with AA was in a 2 class configuration -200. It had ( I may be wrong on this number ) 24 seats up front......


I think the early 762 pre-ETOPs cert had only two classes- a taupe leather first class without sleepers in a 2-2-2 arrangement for 24, and then a coach in light blue fabric like many AA planes of the era. I have not been able to find pics or confirm though..
 
LAXLHR
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:23 am

wernerga3 wrote:
Hey all!

I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to airplane cabins and their changes over the years- particularly first class cabins. With all of that known, there is one cabin that is somewhat sentimental that I am having trouble tracking. The AA 767 which was delivered to AA in the early 1980s, and its interior changes over the years.

The first time I flew in first class was in 2007 when I flew LAX-JFK on an AA 767-200. It featured the old first class cabin with 9 seats (strangest layout I have ever studied) and the seats were Weber grey leather seats that I believe had been reupholstered from the previous sheepskin days. It was most likely the very end of that seat's era as the new non-fully-flat all business class seats would come in 2008.

Here is how I think it went, but any help and or photos would help put this to rest. It also gets confusing because they introduced the 767-300 along the way in all of this and that would end up having different cabins as I understand.

Here is a link of a photo I made with all the seats
https://imgur.com/a/YtTqaom

1982-1987: Grey Leather Weber Seats 2-2-2
1987-1992: Grey Leather & Sheepskin Weber Sleepers 2-1-2
1992-1999: Grey Leather Weber Sleepers 2-1-2
1999-2008: Dark Blue Leather & Fabric Sleepers 2-1-2
2008-2017: Blue & Gray Sleepers 2-2-2 (Strange non-fully-flat)
2017-Present: Blue & Gray Sleepers 1-2-1


Please school me- particularly on the early years!


I flew on AA's 763's a lot around the mid 90s. LHR-MIA, LHR-LAX, LHR-RDU (miiight have been a 762) same config. JFK-GRU-GIG, many transcons. First was 2-1-2. Still had the sheepskin... 7 course meals that went on foreeeeever!
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
Ionosphere
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:37 am

I flew AA146 BOS-CDG & AA121 CDG-JFK on February 2001. BOS-CDG was on a 763 with the then new three class dark blue interior. CDG-JFK was on a 762 with the blue interiors in J & Y. F had the light brown leather seats with the red center headrests.
 
afcjets
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:37 am

CARST wrote:
American 767 wrote:
I just want to point out that in the 80s and 90s the leather seats in F and C cabins were light brown, not gray.


I think these seats can be seen in "Home Alone" or "Home Alone 2 - Lost in New York". Or both. Could have also been a DC-10. But it was the same timeframe, late 80s to early 90s, so I would have guessed the same seats. Definitely looking brown if you look at the scenes on YouTube...


American767 is right but is slightly off on the dates. All F seats on AA were beige leather in the 1980s (when they refurbished the cabins with baby blue coach seats circa 1982-1984 and put leather in F) but by 1990 they were changed to taupe on all widebodies in F/J with narrowbody F seats soon to follow. (The only exception was the 747SP which actually had baby blue leather and lambswool in F/J instead of taupe) 3 cabin aircraft got leather and lambswool F/J seats but two class aircraft F seats stayed all leather just with the new color.

In 1995, American slightly altered F/J seats on 3 cabin aircraft by introducing an accent color on the seats with a rusty red colored center leather headrest and the lambswool was changed to this color too. You can actually see it in the second link from the FA training photo in your post 18. When AA started refurbishing S80s with the darker blue cloth seats in both F and Y with leather headrests around September 1999, these seats eventually went away, but F on 3 cabin 767s were among the last to go. I flew IAD-LAX in Spring 2001 on a 762 in F with 9 seats and it still had the taupe and red leather lambswool seats in F, but the bulkhead and Y and possibly J were already done with the new seats.

In Home Alone 2 which is from 1992, they were already taupe as you can clearly see on YouTube below. Btw this has to be a mock cabin as no AA 767 had a door behind F and is likely a MD11 inside and has wider seats.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HjQK7iUQ3B8
 
afcjets
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:30 am

wernerga3 wrote:
First off- Thanks for the great responses so far. I am a big nerd and every chime in counts! Please lets try to find some more photos of the pre 777 look era. Very hard to find any photos with the sheepskin and still on the hunt. In the meantime, hopefully this can help with some of the confusion:

There was a first class setup with 14 seats in 2-1-2 which appears to be the 762 as of ETOPs ~1987. The center row had two singular seats, which is strange for any aircraft, and there were 12 seats on the outer rows arranged in 3 sets of 2 on either side. (see image link below)
1987 762 First: https://imgur.com/a/v1zoOHA

For that same 762 setup, there was a 2-2-2- F cabin, although I cannot find any pictures besides this very rare flight attendant training photo in which they appear to be using an old 762 cabin. You can see the first class cabin with its center single seat as well in this photo. I am not sure if these 2-2-2 seats had the sleeper leg adjustments like the first class cabin, but they also appeared to be sheepskin. (see image link below)
1987 762 Business: https://imgur.com/a/w7l2kZ8


The 2-2-2 F cabin was on 762 domestic aircraft (excluding P transcon) and had 24 F seats. The pic you link is a 3 cabin aircraft with 2-1-2 in F and 2-2-2 in J. It almost looks like one cabin as the center bulkhead is open so J passengers can see the video screen in F. It is not from 1987 though as the red accent color did not come out until late 1995. Here is a seat map of the 767 when it was new and only in a 2 class layout with 24F. (scroll down about 3/4)

http://aviationexplorer.com/american_airlines.htm



wernerga3 wrote:
Later on, on certain 762s, there was a setup with 9 seats in 2-1-2 with only a single center aisle seat- I know I flew this configuration as I flew in 2C which was the only seat in the center of the cabin, and a strange seating experience. I remember the F cabin (which i had flown on the initial flight from JFK-LAX since first class was sold out) was the updated blue leather/fabric cabin of the 777- just without any screen/phone etc, yet the first class cabin had not been updated. I remember it was a gray leather though- not this black leather that I found a photo of. Also notice there was no sheepskin on these as that fad was out by 2007.
Late 762 First: https://imgur.com/a/2BR9qCI


I think that is midnight blue leather but not certain. I believe the lambswool was out by the end of 2001 or 2002, when did you last see it? The taupe leather seats in F on the 757 though stayed at least through 2012 though on some aircraft.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:22 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
1987 762 Business: https://imgur.com/a/w7l2kZ8


That looks like a flight attendant training mockup similar to this Singapore one:

Image

wernerga3 wrote:
Home Alone/ Other AA Sheepskin Shots (Different Weber Seat): https://imgur.com/a/AhR26ym


This one looks like a movie studio set. Note the 747 sidewalls and 727? overhead bins.

Did any other airline use Sheepskin seats in their premium cabins other than Pan Am and AA?
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:46 pm

afcjets wrote:
Btw this has to be a mock cabin as no AA 767 had a door behind F and is likely a MD11 inside and has wider seats.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HjQK7iUQ3B8


The dead giveaway of something that is filmed on an actual aircraft vs. a movie set is to look for the door stops in the doorway. See here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/erwyn/3795805179

Image

The best footage shot on an actual airplane was the movie Bullitt (1968). Real cabin shots on a brand new Pan Am 707. The scene before this one walks through the entire cabin. You can see how new the plane was by the shine of the fuselage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7NG9ZEfyKo

Image
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:10 pm

afcjets wrote:
CARST wrote:
American 767 wrote:
I just want to point out that in the 80s and 90s the leather seats in F and C cabins were light brown, not gray.


I think these seats can be seen in "Home Alone" or "Home Alone 2 - Lost in New York". Or both. Could have also been a DC-10. But it was the same timeframe, late 80s to early 90s, so I would have guessed the same seats. Definitely looking brown if you look at the scenes on YouTube...


American767 is right but is slightly off on the dates. All F seats on AA were beige leather in the 1980s (when they refurbished the cabins with baby blue coach seats circa 1982-1984 and put leather in F) but by 1990 they were changed to taupe on all widebodies in F/J with narrowbody F seats soon to follow. (The only exception was the 747SP which actually had baby blue leather and lambswool in F/J instead of taupe) 3 cabin aircraft got leather and lambswool F/J seats but two class aircraft F seats stayed all leather just with the new color.

In 1995, American slightly altered F/J seats on 3 cabin aircraft by introducing an accent color on the seats with a rusty red colored center leather headrest and the lambswool was changed to this color too. You can actually see it in the second link from the FA training photo in your post 18. When AA started refurbishing S80s with the darker blue cloth seats in both F and Y with leather headrests around September 1999, these seats eventually went away, but F on 3 cabin 767s were among the last to go. I flew IAD-LAX in Spring 2001 on a 762 in F with 9 seats and it still had the taupe and red leather lambswool seats in F, but the bulkhead and Y and possibly J were already done with the new seats.

In Home Alone 2 which is from 1992, they were already taupe as you can clearly see on YouTube below. Btw this has to be a mock cabin as no AA 767 had a door behind F and is likely a MD11 inside and has wider seats.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HjQK7iUQ3B8



A few things:

1) I think the seats from home alone/home alone 2 are actually different. They appear to be the weber narrowbody seats (featured in the 757 forever), just with a sheepskin insert rather than all leather. You'll notice there is no separate headrest, and the sheepskin insert has five thin layers rather than the two large layers on the 762 14 seat. Interestingly enough, some people said that they filmed Home Alone on a 747SP mockup used for training, but since the SP had blue seats, I am not sure that is true- more likely filmed on a DC10 as it is clearly not a 767 from the windows alone.
762 14 Seat 1987: https://imgur.com/a/v1zoOHA
Home Alone Seat ~1990: https://imgur.com/a/AhR26ym

2) It seems the 762 was delivered with a 2 cabin, leather F and baby blue C. That is consistent with the seating chart. I am not sure what the F cabin looked like but I imagine similar to the 757's cabin for years.
Seat Map 1983: https://imgur.com/a/xeYBcYB

2) It seems the 14 seat config was for the intl 762 routes featuring lambswool and 7 course meals from the late 80s to mid 90s- interestingly enough, that picture I linked above (and below again) was from the intro of the transatlantic service offering on the 762. I cannot remember where I found that picture but it highlights the 7 course meal as they are being served wine and cheese.
762 14 Seat 1987: https://imgur.com/a/v1zoOHA

3) It seems that only 3 cabin 762s got the lambswool, but the strange thing is I remember seeing a pic of a gray fabric J seat which was different fabric from the baby blue fabric C at the time- it also featured wooden seat sides. Was this seat ever on the 762 or am i messing things up here?
Seat Map Brochure 1983: https://imgur.com/a/gYeoxLd

4) For fun, here is an ultra rare shot of the AA 747SP upper deck with blue lambswool- looks like the lambswool is spread out more than in the taupe config
747SP Upper Deck: https://imgur.com/a/qS09y95

5) You reference that the lambswool was red as well as the red headrest cover as of 95 and in that fa training shot. But the lambswool looks to be brown or greyish- Do you have any better photos of the red headrest days? And did those J seats have leg rests like the F seats?
Last edited by wernerga3 on Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:31 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
4) For fun, here is an ultra rare shot of the AA 747SP upper deck with blue lambswool- looks like the lambswool is spread out more than in the taupe config
747SP Upper Deck: https://imgur.com/a/qS09y95


Cool, never seen a picture of an AA SP cabin.

wernerga3 wrote:
5) You reference that the lambswool was red as well as the red headrest cover as of 95 and in that fa training shot. But the lambswool looks to be brown or greyish- Do you have any better photos of the red headrest days? And did those J seats have leg rests like the F seats?


I remember full size London Tube advertisements with those seats. IIRC, it was only a change of headrest color (and I think pitch increase) at the time.

wernerga3 wrote:
Was this seat ever on the 762 or am i messing things up here?
Seat Map Brochure 1983: https://imgur.com/a/gYeoxLd


Those are DC-10 sidewalls.

Have you seen the pics in this thread ?

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605573
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:58 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
4) For fun, here is an ultra rare shot of the AA 747SP upper deck with blue lambswool- looks like the lambswool is spread out more than in the taupe config
747SP Upper Deck: https://imgur.com/a/qS09y95


Cool, never seen a picture of an AA SP cabin.

wernerga3 wrote:
5) You reference that the lambswool was red as well as the red headrest cover as of 95 and in that fa training shot. But the lambswool looks to be brown or greyish- Do you have any better photos of the red headrest days? And did those J seats have leg rests like the F seats?


I remember full size London Tube advertisements with those seats. IIRC, it was only a change of headrest color (and I think pitch increase) at the time.

wernerga3 wrote:
Was this seat ever on the 762 or am i messing things up here?
Seat Map Brochure 1983: https://imgur.com/a/gYeoxLd


Those are DC-10 sidewalls.

Have you seen the pics in this thread ?

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605573



That thread is great! It has the 762 setup I was referencing, but from the front! Those are the seats! Looks like the grey/beige whatever cloth J seats were on the DC10 but not on the 762; also seems that the J seats which were sheepskin 2-2-2- had the sleeper legs. Nice! I wonder if there is a copy of the tube advertisement with the red headrests.. Hard to find.
 
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:53 pm

DL_Mech wrote:

wernerga3 wrote:
Was this seat ever on the 762 or am i messing things up here?
Seat Map Brochure 1983: https://imgur.com/a/gYeoxLd


Those are DC-10 sidewalls.



https://imgur.com/a/xeYBcYB
https://imgur.com/a/T0Az9pO
The original 762 layout in C was 2-3-2, and the walls in this mock up are certainly 762
What if those grey/beige cloth seats were in the original C section of the 762- There doesn't seem to be a good answer as to why they were grey/beige in some instances and blue in others- I mean AA did go crazy in the 70s with multiple color cabins in red white and blue, but it seems that fad was out by this period of the early 80s..
 
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:40 pm

I've always thought it sad that while Delta & United did nose-to-tail retrofits of their 767-300s American's was limited to new seat covers and few other cosmetic changes. Passing the bulkhead into Economy was like going through a time warp; even the overhead bins are still pretty much as they were when the airplanes were delivered. I guess that shows where AA's priorities are...
 
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:05 pm

wernerga3 wrote:

I think the seats from home alone/home alone 2 are actually different. They appear to be the weber narrowbody seats (featured in the 757 forever), just with a sheepskin insert rather than all leather. You'll notice there is no separate headrest, and the sheepskin insert has five thin layers rather than the two large layers on the 762 14 seat. Interestingly enough, some people said that they filmed Home Alone on a 747SP mockup used for training, but since the SP had blue seats, I am not sure that is true- more likely filmed on a DC10 as it is clearly not a 767 from the windows alone.
762 14 Seat 1987: https://imgur.com/a/v1zoOHA
Home Alone Seat ~1990: https://imgur.com/a/AhR26ym


That wouldn't really make sense though because only 3 cabin aircraft had the lambswool. 767 J seats were obviously more narrow since they were in a 2x2x2 configuration, even with the D10 and M11 having 2x3x2 in J. More likely it was from the D10 or M11 but I don't know about the separate headrest. Here is a video of the M11 cabin in 1994 showing J class starting at 5:00, it is not the best quality but you can clearly see the seats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9_SLMHFTgQ

I just watched the Home Alone video again. It is actually a 747SP or mock cabin. It actually looks totally real especially compared to the mock cabins in the training center pics. Perhaps DL Mechanic can tell, I didn't really see the doorstop thing in the pic he shares. You can tell by the window insets on the sidewalls and notice how wide the aisle is in Y. It would be even wider in J as it was only 2x2x2 (yet D10s and M11s were 2x3x2) on the SP. I am wondering if AA replaced the baby blue leather with taupe on the SP, even though they didn't keep them long they only had two so it couldn't have cost that much.



wernerga3 wrote:
2) It seems the 762 was delivered with a 2 cabin, leather F and baby blue C. That is consistent with the seating chart. I am not sure what the F cabin looked like but I imagine similar to the 757's cabin for years.
Seat Map 1983: https://imgur.com/a/xeYBcYB


When you said C I thought you meant Business instead of Coach. C was a universal booking code for Business Class before J was or at the same time. I think of coach as Y when using one letter. I flew both the 2 cabin 762 (DFW-SAN) and 3 cabin 762 (SAN-LAX) in January 1990. The 2 cabin one looked the same as the 757 interior and the 3 cabin one was all taupe leather and lambswool in both F and J. I have a pic of it somewhere, the F seat looks slightly darker but it could be the lighting it was a 7a departure I believe. I didn't know it was a 3 cabin ac until I boarded and my coach seat was actually in J. It was sold as Y and they came through with the beverage cart which continued into coach. It was flight 76 which continued onto IAD where it was sold as 3 class.


wernerga3 wrote:
It seems that only 3 cabin 762s got the lambswool, but the strange thing is I remember seeing a pic of a gray fabric J seat which was different fabric from the baby blue fabric C at the time- it also featured wooden seat sides. Was this seat ever on the 762 or am i messing things up here?
Seat Map Brochure 1983: https://imgur.com/a/gYeoxLd


I had never seen the wooden sides or the palm tree or whatever design on the sidewalls, I don't like them really. My favorite was the 767 sidewall with the blue pattern at the bottom that transitioned to more gray above the seat. I was glad AA kept it. It brightened their future more drab seat covers, especially the current J ones.



wernerga3 wrote:
You reference that the lambswool was red as well as the red headrest cover as of 95 and in that fa training shot. But the lambswool looks to be brown or greyish- Do you have any better photos of the red headrest days? And did those J seats have leg rests like the F seats?


After seeing the mock cabin it refreshed my memory. The red leather headrest started with J only and it was several years IIRC until they put it in F too. I believe it wasn't until later the lambswool color changed too (99.9% sure it did but I could be wrong) and I remember it looking almost mauve. J seats definitely had the footrests from the beginning too, they just didn't extend all that much.
Last edited by afcjets on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
afcjets
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:11 pm

delete
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:19 pm

afcjets wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:

I think the seats from home alone/home alone 2 are actually different. They appear to be the weber narrowbody seats (featured in the 757 forever), just with a sheepskin insert rather than all leather. You'll notice there is no separate headrest, and the sheepskin insert has five thin layers rather than the two large layers on the 762 14 seat. Interestingly enough, some people said that they filmed Home Alone on a 747SP mockup used for training, but since the SP had blue seats, I am not sure that is true- more likely filmed on a DC10 as it is clearly not a 767 from the windows alone.
762 14 Seat 1987: https://imgur.com/a/v1zoOHA
Home Alone Seat ~1990: https://imgur.com/a/AhR26ym


That wouldn't really make sense though because only 3 cabin aircraft had the lambswool. 767 J seats were obviously more narrow since they were in a 2x2x2 configuration, even with the D10 and M11 having 2x3x2 in J. More likely it was from the D10 or M11 but I don't know about the separate headrest. Here is a video of the M11 cabin in 1994 showing J class starting at 5:00, it is not the best quality but you can clearly see the seats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9_SLMHFTgQ

I just watched the Home Alone video again. It is actually a 747SP or mock cabin. It actually looks totally real especially compared to the mock cabins in the training center pics. Perhaps DL Mechanic can tell, I didn't really see the doorstop thing in the pic he shares. You can tell by the window insets on the sidewalls and notice how wide the aisle is in Y. It would be even wider in J as it was only 2x2x2 (yet D10s and M11s were 2x3x2) on the SP. I am wondering if AA replaced the baby blue leather with taupe on the SP, even though they didn't keep them long they only had two so it couldn't have cost that much.



wernerga3 wrote:
2) It seems the 762 was delivered with a 2 cabin, leather F and baby blue C. That is consistent with the seating chart. I am not sure what the F cabin looked like but I imagine similar to the 757's cabin for years.
Seat Map 1983: https://imgur.com/a/xeYBcYB


When you said C I thought you meant Business instead of Coach. C was a universal booking code for Business Class before J was or at the same time. I think of coach as Y when using one letter. I flew both the 2 cabin 762 (DFW-SAN) and 3 cabin 762 (SAN-LAX) in January 1990. The 2 cabin one looked the same as the 757 interior and the 3 cabin one was all taupe leather and lambswool in both F and J. I have a pic of it somewhere, the F seat looks slightly darker but it could be the lighting it was a 7a departure I believe. I didn't know it was a 3 cabin ac until I boarded and my coach seat was actually in J. It was sold as Y and they came through with the beverage cart which continued into coach. It was flight 76 which continued onto IAD where it was sold as 3 class.


wernerga3 wrote:
It seems that only 3 cabin 762s got the lambswool, but the strange thing is I remember seeing a pic of a gray fabric J seat which was different fabric from the baby blue fabric C at the time- it also featured wooden seat sides. Was this seat ever on the 762 or am i messing things up here?
Seat Map Brochure 1983: https://imgur.com/a/gYeoxLd


I had never seen the wooden sides or the palm tree or whatever design on the sidewalls, I don't like them really. My favorite was the 767 sidewall with the blue pattern at the bottom that transitioned to more gray above the seat. I was glad AA kept it. It brightened their future more drab seat covers, especially the current J ones.



wernerga3 wrote:
You reference that the lambswool was red as well as the red headrest cover as of 95 and in that fa training shot. But the lambswool looks to be brown or greyish- Do you have any better photos of the red headrest days? And did those J seats have leg rests like the F seats?


After seeing the mock cabin it refreshed my memory. The red leather headrest started with J only and it was several years IIRC until they put it in F too. I believe it wasn't until later the lambswool color changed too (99.9% sure it did but I could be wrong) and I remember it looking almost mauve. J seats definitely had the footrests from the beginning too, they just didn't extend all that much.


Yes the D10/M11 had 2-3-2 in J vs 2-2-2 on 762, just as they had 2-2-2 in F vs 2-1-2 on 762. Interesting point, I guess the 762 was narrower. Here is a pic of the 2-2-2 D10 setup with those big 762 separate headrest sleeper seats
D10 Sleepers: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8510/8352 ... 41eb_b.jpg

On the flip side, the 747 in 1983 had 2-4-2 in J, and it offered two different first class seat options. On the main deck in the A-Zone and front of the B-Zone were regular first class seats in a 2-2 setup (with 2 singular center chairs), and on the upper deck there were what appear to be different first class sleeper seats which are further spaced out. I have never seen any photos of the 747 first class from this era- only 747 photos from the early 70s when there were 2 lounges and swivel dining chairs in the cone and B-zone, so who knows what the seats looked like. Although I believe the regular 747 seats would be taupe and not the dark blue like on the SP.
1983 747 seat map: https://imgur.com/a/1Wk56cN


As for home alone, If it was a 747sp mock up, it could have been built with taupe leather, even though the real SPs had the dark blue. But those seats are def different. I am still trying to figure out how those all-in-one weber seats with the sheepskin insert fit into things. They don't appear to have the sleeper leg rests either. They are clearly different from the sheepskin 3 class 762 seats. The 747sp had 2-2 F sleeper seats in the A-zone, and 2-2-2 J seats for the majority of the rest of the cabin. It even had two bars in the middle of the plane, and upstairs there was a buffet table in the rear galley area of the upper deck!
sp seat map: http://frequentlyflying.boardingarea.co ... 4x1024.jpg

Sorry about the C confusion. Thanks for the info- I will refer to coach as coach from now on and business as J.

As for the mauve lambswool, i am on the hunt for a picture. I believe your recollection and it would be likely that these were switched out as the lambswool didn't appear to hold up well for long periods.
 
afcjets
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:43 am

wernerga3 wrote:

Yes the D10/M11 had 2-3-2 in J vs 2-2-2 on 762, just as they had 2-2-2 in F vs 2-1-2 on 762. Interesting point, I guess the 762 was narrower. Here is a pic of the 2-2-2 D10 setup with those big 762 separate headrest sleeper seats
D10 Sleepers: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8510/8352 ... 41eb_b.jpg

On the flip side, the 747 in 1983 had 2-4-2 in J, and it offered two different first class seat options. On the main deck in the A-Zone and front of the B-Zone were regular first class seats in a 2-2 setup (with 2 singular center chairs), and on the upper deck there were what appear to be different first class sleeper seats which are further spaced out. I have never seen any photos of the 747 first class from this era- only 747 photos from the early 70s when there were 2 lounges and swivel dining chairs in the cone and B-zone, so who knows what the seats looked like. Although I believe the regular 747 seats would be taupe and not the dark blue like on the SP.
1983 747 seat map: https://imgur.com/a/1Wk56cN


It's possible the F seats on the seat map are not exactly drawn to scale on the upper vs. lower deck. I believe AA switched to beige leather F seats and the baby blue and beige coach seats in 1983. All but two 747s were retired in 1984 and the last two in 1985, including one that wasn’t introduced until 1984 according to the link below (and of course excluding the two 747SPs from the early 90s) and it’s possible the last ones to go were reserved for charters. I doubt the 747s ever got new seat covers, just early business seats at 2x4x2 which are inferior to even Premium Economy today.

Also, I wouldn’t call the 747SP F/J seats dark blue, they were bright blue and only slightly darker than the baby blue coach seats. I actually think it’s supposed to be the exact same color or pretty close. It may just may look darker as leather and/or in certain lighting. It looks strange on that upper deck pic, I remember seeing a pic of a brochure on their DFW-NRT service at the time showing the lower level and it looked much better, probably because it was so spacious down there at only 2x2x2, where you saw a lot more of the cabin than just those blue seats.

https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Ame ... y-b747.htm


I am sure you have seen this pic of F from 1976

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7108302943
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:45 pm

afcjets wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:

Yes the D10/M11 had 2-3-2 in J vs 2-2-2 on 762, just as they had 2-2-2 in F vs 2-1-2 on 762. Interesting point, I guess the 762 was narrower. Here is a pic of the 2-2-2 D10 setup with those big 762 separate headrest sleeper seats
D10 Sleepers: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8510/8352 ... 41eb_b.jpg

On the flip side, the 747 in 1983 had 2-4-2 in J, and it offered two different first class seat options. On the main deck in the A-Zone and front of the B-Zone were regular first class seats in a 2-2 setup (with 2 singular center chairs), and on the upper deck there were what appear to be different first class sleeper seats which are further spaced out. I have never seen any photos of the 747 first class from this era- only 747 photos from the early 70s when there were 2 lounges and swivel dining chairs in the cone and B-zone, so who knows what the seats looked like. Although I believe the regular 747 seats would be taupe and not the dark blue like on the SP.
1983 747 seat map: https://imgur.com/a/1Wk56cN


It's possible the F seats on the seat map are not exactly drawn to scale on the upper vs. lower deck. I believe AA switched to beige leather F seats and the baby blue and beige coach seats in 1983. All but two 747s were retired in 1984 and the last two in 1985, including one that wasn’t introduced until 1984 according to the link below (and of course excluding the two 747SPs from the early 90s) and it’s possible the last ones to go were reserved for charters. I doubt the 747s ever got new seat covers, just early business seats at 2x4x2 which are inferior to even Premium Economy today.

Also, I wouldn’t call the 747SP F/J seats dark blue, they were bright blue and only slightly darker than the baby blue coach seats. I actually think it’s supposed to be the exact same color or pretty close. It may just may look darker as leather and/or in certain lighting. It looks strange on that upper deck pic, I remember seeing a pic of a brochure on their DFW-NRT service at the time showing the lower level and it looked much better, probably because it was so spacious down there at only 2x2x2, where you saw a lot more of the cabin than just those blue seats.

https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Ame ... y-b747.htm


I am sure you have seen this pic of F from 1976

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7108302943


Yeah, I have seen that AA 747 cabin pic; it's actually from 1978-
Here is a cool thread with cabin pics from an early trip in 1972- Has the piano coach lounge, and the swivel chairs for dining in the b-zone and in the nose cone
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/america ... 47-ud.html

AA leased a 747-100 from pan am so that they could make the march 2, 1970 inaugural flight ahead of the delayed delivery schedule. The initial AA 747s had a coach lounge in the rear (as did the DC10), but the pianos were not added until later in 1972, and went along with the luxury liner titling. The lounges in coach would be removed by the late 70s thanks to CAB pressure, and the seating changed from 9-10 abreast in coach. Then in the early 80s, I believe the AA 747s got one interior change to the leather sleepers in first, a new biz class section (which i have no idea what it looked like just that it was 2-4-2), and then coach- which could have been the new baby blue, or could have remained the same as original. There are pieces that i need to figure out still- but I am getting closer.

I have to believe the 747 saw new seating per that 1983 seat map because the original fabric red white and black seats were not sleepers. And that seat map clearly says sleeper seats- unless like I said only the upper deck got those later in the life span? This requires more research to conclude. I have not seen the first class 747 of this era, or the biz class either- i'd like to see both


As for the 747sp, that was from a local news article from 1987 talking about AAs entrance into the pacific market with the sp. Those sps were delivered to TWA originally in 1980- then AA got them in 1986 for the 1987 start of service. They showed the stewardess upstairs to tout the high luxury level of the flights. And like I said, there were sleeper seats, galley buffets, huge glasses of champagne, and even stand up bars on the main deck! Having said all of that, I have never seen the main deck. And I am curious what both the first class and biz classes looked like on the sp main deck since they were late 80s as compared to the 747-100s which were retired as you said by 85. If you have any photos of the main deck it would be great to see them!
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... d/03wecw14
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... s/438Lfwl5
 
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:29 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
4) For fun, here is an ultra rare shot of the AA 747SP upper deck with blue lambswool- looks like the lambswool is spread out more than in the taupe config
747SP Upper Deck: https://imgur.com/a/qS09y95


Cool, never seen a picture of an AA SP cabin.

wernerga3 wrote:
5) You reference that the lambswool was red as well as the red headrest cover as of 95 and in that fa training shot. But the lambswool looks to be brown or greyish- Do you have any better photos of the red headrest days? And did those J seats have leg rests like the F seats?


I remember full size London Tube advertisements with those seats. IIRC, it was only a change of headrest color (and I think pitch increase) at the time.

wernerga3 wrote:
Was this seat ever on the 762 or am i messing things up here?
Seat Map Brochure 1983: https://imgur.com/a/gYeoxLd


Those are DC-10 sidewalls.

Have you seen the pics in this thread ?

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605573


Totally off topic, but when you click on the link to this old thread from a few years ago I see that airline and airport codes are underlined and when you hover your mouse over them the airline/airport names appear. Why, oh why, did A-Net do away with this wonderful feature???
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:47 pm

Anyway- to bring this thread back on topic, if anyone has any photos of the early 767 cabins for AA- I would really appreciate if you could share them!
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:14 am

afcjets wrote:
Also, I wouldn’t call the 747SP F/J seats dark blue, they were bright blue and only slightly darker than the baby blue coach seats. I actually think it’s supposed to be the exact same color or pretty close. It may just may look darker as leather and/or in certain lighting. It looks strange on that upper deck pic, I remember seeing a pic of a brochure on their DFW-NRT service at the time showing the lower level and it looked much better, probably because it was so spacious down there at only 2x2x2, where you saw a lot more of the cabin than just those blue seats.


Found a better pic of the SP seats- I also did some research on the sheepskin era of AA because I have a strange interest in sheepskin era airplane seats.

So AA used four different sheepskin seats:
Image

1) DC10/762 Taupe Non-Sleeper Weber 6003- This seat was an evolution to the leather Weber 6003 seat which adorned the entire fleet's F cabin as of 1983. This was one of the most popular seats in an AA plane, and was used in the 757 for a very long time (in non-sheepskin form) after the rest of the fleet had been upgraded to the blue leather/cloth design of the 2000s. In the late 1980s, AA had added sheepskin to the Weber 6003 on wide-body planes. The narrow body planes retained the all leather seats in first. You can tell this seat because it has five tufts/layers on the seat-back- and you can see those same layers in leather or sheepskin form.

2) 747SP Blue Sleeper Weber- Not sure which model this seat is, but It looks to be a modified 6003. This seat was specific to the 747SP and was bright blue. It only had four tufts/layers on the seat back, but interestingly it had the tufts on the seat cushion as well.

3) DC10/762 Taupe Sleeper Weber 7502- This seat was used initially on trans-atlantic routes, but then was added to the flagship first transcon service in 1992. The seats were sleepers and featured two massive layered cushions covered in sheepskin. They also had separate adjustable headrests and mini tables for drinks. These seats were in 2-1-2 on the 762 and 2-2-2 on the DC10.

4) DC10/762 Taupe Sleeper Weber J Cabin- Again, not sure which model this seat was, but they were similar seats to the 7502 F seats, but featured less recline and narrower width. They would also get the red leather headrests later in their life span. These seats were 2-3-2 on DC10 and 2-2-2- on 762.
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:31 am

wernerga3 wrote:
A few things:

1) I think the seats from home alone/home alone 2 are actually different.


Indeed, actually I found online a number of American Airlines ads that utilize these variations of the Weber seats.

(I too am an old-AA-cabin-interior-nerd of sorts, did a fair amount of research on the matter too.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:33 am

travelsonic wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
A few things:

1) I think the seats from home alone/home alone 2 are actually different.


Indeed, actually I found online a number of American Airlines ads that utilize these variations of the Weber seats.

(I too am an old-AA-cabin-interior-nerd of sorts, did a fair amount of research on the matter too.



This is so freaking wierd- I just posted on your flickr comment:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/onemileat ... 415182951/

I think more discussion needs to occur. I will PM you.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:21 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
Anyway- to bring this thread back on topic, if anyone has any photos of the early 767 cabins for AA- I would really appreciate if you could share them!


I found an image of the wide-body A300 cabin- This is most likely what the original 1983 767 cabin looked like as well. Too bad there is still no imagery- and I have been looking hard!
Image
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:20 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
Anyway- to bring this thread back on topic, if anyone has any photos of the early 767 cabins for AA- I would really appreciate if you could share them!


I found an image of the wide-body A300 cabin- This is most likely what the original 1983 767 cabin looked like as well. Too bad there is still no imagery- and I have been looking hard!
Image



Wish I could find the video, but there was an American Airlines video online with a montage of photos from training (trying to remember if it was a graduation video that a person in said class uploaded) - in it, I commented about the 767 pics, one of which most likely being the original 1983 cabin - and being surprised to see the cabin with those seats (being so used to the sheepskin+leather ones)... to which I received a response about them (and learned a little about the configuration at the time)... now if only I could find that video.
 
ikramerica
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:34 pm

I remember my first flight on AA767 in F with family returning DFW-EWR mid 80s. There were cool new features like doors and coat closets that went up into the crown and large movie screen that flipped over for stowage. The pilot tuned the VHF to the Cowboys-Giants game on the 3-tube projector and kept retuning as we would change markets.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:14 pm

afcjets wrote:
Btw this has to be a mock cabin as no AA 767 had a door behind F and is likely a MD11 inside and has wider seats.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HjQK7iUQ3B8


Yeah 5 seconds in you can see the oxygen mask doors in the seat back which is def DC10/MD11;
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:24 pm

travelsonic wrote:
Wish I could find the video, but there was an American Airlines video online with a montage of photos from training (trying to remember if it was a graduation video that a person in said class uploaded) - in it, I commented about the 767 pics, one of which most likely being the original 1983 cabin - and being surprised to see the cabin with those seats (being so used to the sheepskin+leather ones)... to which I received a response about them (and learned a little about the configuration at the time)... now if only I could find that video.


Yeah I'd like to see the video!

This was the initial layout pre-ETOPS
Image


I found this rare picture of a 1985 AA seat guide on worth point- It's a DC10 indicated by the amount of rows of seats and the rear right coat closet which the 767 didn't have- but the 767 likely looked similar including those crazy fuzzy cloud graphics on the bulkheads!

Image
Image
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:44 pm

afcjets wrote:
3 cabin aircraft got leather and lambswool F/J seats but two class aircraft F seats stayed all leather just with the new color.

That still begs the question of how the weber 6003 sheepskin seat (featured in Home Alone / 2) fits into the pic. Since the 3 cabin aircraft clearly had the 7502 sleepers.

afcjets wrote:
In 1995, American slightly altered F/J seats on 3 cabin aircraft by introducing an accent color on the seats with a rusty red colored center leather headrest and the lambswool was changed to this color too. You can actually see it in the second link from the FA training photo in your post 18.

You can see it on the J cabin, but I still have not seen this on the F cabin anywhere! I flew F in 07 and it was not like this or the dark blue refresh the 300 got.

afcjets wrote:
When AA started refurbishing S80s with the darker blue cloth seats in both F and Y with leather headrests around September 1999, these seats eventually went away, but F on 3 cabin 767s were among the last to go. I flew IAD-LAX in Spring 2001 on a 762 in F with 9 seats and it still had the taupe and red leather lambswool seats in F, but the bulkhead and Y and possibly J were already done with the new seats.

Yes J and Y were done ahead of F on the 200 as seen here:
Image

but I believe on the 300 it got the 777 sleeper (pre-flag suite) update in F along with a slightly updated J fabric (which would be the fabric on the 2-2-2 J (non-flat sleeper) update when F went away):
Image
Image

Image
 
wernerga3
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:19 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Btw this has to be a mock cabin as no AA 767 had a door behind F and is likely a MD11 inside and has wider seats.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HjQK7iUQ3B8


Yeah 5 seconds in you can see the oxygen mask doors in the seat back which is def DC10/MD11;


This is an image of it:
Image
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:30 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
I found this rare picture of a 1985 AA seat guide on worth point- It's a DC10 indicated by the amount of rows of seats and the rear right coat closet which the 767 didn't have- but the 767 likely looked similar including those crazy fuzzy cloud graphics on the bulkheads!


For me, the overhead bins design, ceiling panel layout, and lack of middle bins gave it away... wow, never saw that pic before, nice find!

wernerga3 wrote:
Yes J and Y were done ahead of F on the 200 as seen here:


Maybe my memory is fuzzy... a few times in the early-mid 2000s, I was lucky to fly JFK-LAX (and back), and JFK-SAN (and back) in J on the 767-223ERs in the early-mid 2000s, but didn't these seats (the ones that replaced the "Woolly Mammoths" in J, I mean) once have reading lights between seats? I seem to remember one flight with them, and another where they weren't there later on.


My favorite memory was flying in F on a flight from St. Louis to Kahului, Maui (STL-OGG) in March 2002. The aircraft was an ex-TWA 767-300, still in TWA's last livery, and with all the furnishings (which was to be expected, of course) - the seats appeared to be a variation of the Weber 7502s, only with the Ambassador Class cloth coverings instead of sheepskin/leather. Didn't they used to have VHS players built in that allowed you to play tapes? I seem to remember that being a thing with those seats...
Last edited by travelsonic on Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
travelsonic
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Re: American Airlines 767 Cabins Since Delivery

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:30 pm

Pardon the double post, twas accidental, but since it is here, I might as well use it.

Here is an image I saw online from an April 1996 timetable (I think - guessing by the copyright info on the lefthand page)
Image

Looks like a ... mockup, but of what type? DC-10 was my initial thought, but upon looking closer, the windows look more 767-esque... but were 767s without the blue wall paneling being delivered by then?

Either way, interesting perspective of the J (?) cabin legroom.

Here's an image from a 1994 timetable, ad for American's transcon Flagship Service with an image of the seat, and what looks like a mockup of the DC-10's F or J.
Image

Also, it looks like the 24-seat F lasted on American's 767-200s through **AT LEAST** 1992 (and check out the 757-200's configuration from that time period!)
Image

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