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LAXintl
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AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:31 pm

Announced today internally, AA has decided "resize" its flight attendant crew bases.

In summary, both DFW and LAX will each receive 700 additional positions, while PHX will shrink by 700 and STL by 75.

With a combined AA/US FA workforce, the airline has more flexibility to move positions obviously. No job cuts, AA says it will use transfer and attrition to achieve new staffing levels.
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alasizon
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:34 pm

A bit surprising on PHX as the original intention was to keep using PHX to staff more 737 trips but I guess now that the 737 pilot base in PHX isn't happening; it makes sense to then cut those heads and transfer them to LAX.
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UPlog
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:50 pm

Think its a matter of time that PHX gets squeezed by DFW and LAX.

I am sure AA sees the numbers and believes LA and Dallas are markets to staff instead.

Surprised that STL still was a base after all the decades of cuts.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:12 pm

UPlog wrote:
Think its a matter of time that PHX gets squeezed by DFW and LAX.

I am sure AA sees the numbers and believes LA and Dallas are markets to staff instead.

Surprised that STL still was a base after all the decades of cuts.

From the Law suite and motions filed over years from the Stapled TWA/AA furloughed Crap in STL yrs ago AA is required to maintain main line aircraft and have a minimum crew base.
Or that's what I've been told by AA crews in the past.

Poor PHX AWA crews they bail out Usairways then get shafted, then the new Us airway bails our AA and AWA Crews get shafted yet again.

PHX has very little commuters so this will sting to those affected because LAX crash pads aren't cheap.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
mmahpeel
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:32 pm

I'm assuming most of the 700 being cut out of PHX will be forced/surplussed to LAX?

Hard to imagine that many hundreds of PHX crew will just voluntarily transfer to LAX.
 
cm642
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:54 pm

It makes sense from a perspective that since the merger PHX has been right sized so the station is probably more than likely overstaffed at the moment.
 
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casinterest
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:01 pm

mmahpeel wrote:
I'm assuming most of the 700 being cut out of PHX will be forced/surplussed to LAX?

Hard to imagine that many hundreds of PHX crew will just voluntarily transfer to LAX.



They said no cuts in the opener, They plan to do it by transfers and attrition.

Either way, it looks like PHX will become less and less utilized as time goes on by AA. And WN will probably grow larger.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
4engines4lnghll
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:12 pm

The large group of PHX FAs moved to DFW awhile ago. Unless this is another shift, it’s orobably old news. The senior FAs want DFW bc of the trips they can do.
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alasizon
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:14 pm

casinterest wrote:
Either way, it looks like PHX will become less and less utilized as time goes on by AA. And WN will probably grow larger.


Cutting the FA base has nothing to do with PHX's size overall. PHX traditionally had many more FAs than needed as many CLT & PHL trans-con trips were also staffed out of PHX.
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Super80Fan
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:21 pm

No surprise about STL, kind of wondering why they still have it in the first place, a contract requirement?
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casinterest
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:25 pm

alasizon wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Either way, it looks like PHX will become less and less utilized as time goes on by AA. And WN will probably grow larger.


Cutting the FA base has nothing to do with PHX's size overall. PHX traditionally had many more FAs than needed as many CLT & PHL trans-con trips were also staffed out of PHX.

True, but those FAE's were hold overs of America West/US Airways, which had much more of a operation out of Sky Harbor. However as part of the merger with AA, PHX doesn't mean as much to AA as LAX/DFW.

Phoenix as a city is large enough to easily support many markets for AA, but they won't sacrifice DFW/LAX for it, and I suspect more competing traffic will be started by other carriers as time goes on.
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Lemieux
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:27 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
No surprise about STL, kind of wondering why they still have it in the first place, a contract requirement?

Indeed.
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kiowa
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:34 pm

suprised there are no changes in ORD
 
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:29 pm

Out of interest where are the AA crew bases located?
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SurfandSnow
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:34 pm

Hasn't STL been largely reduced to a large RJ operation? I would not be surprised if there are still tons of former TWA staff in Greater St. Louis, but I still see no need for any kind of mainline base there given how strong WN has become in the STL market. I could absolutely see the rationale behind a regional E-Jet base supporting American Eagle operations on routes like STL-CLT/DCA/DFW/LGA/MIA/ORD/PHL, though.

PHX was IIRC artificially overstaffed due to employee integration issues at US. However, the hub seems to be thriving under the AA brand. AA probably makes a killing on the new/resumed regional routes like PHX-ASE, PHX-JAC and PHX-STS. Longer haul services that I figured might be on the chopping block - those to Alaska as well as Hawaii - will soon see brand new, state of the art aircraft. Bookings for AA's new daily PHX-LHR service were so strong that the flight has already gone year round, before even starting!

PHX surely won't be a major focus for the carrier going forward, but I do think the airline will have to continue to explore further possibilities - BDL, BIL, BNA, BZN, CDG, CID, CLD, COS, CVG, FAR, IAD, ICT, MMH, MSY, NRT, PSC, SUN, TUL, XNA, YLW, YWG, YYJ and YYZ spring to mind (most of those would be resumptions after all). Obviously most of the growth opportunities could/should be operated by large RJs rather than mainline, though. As someone who loves connecting through PHX, what with the ample seating, delicious food and virtual lack of congestion and weather delays, I hope to see this hub continue to do well.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
DanDun
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:41 pm

American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL
 
Vctony
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:16 pm

DanDun wrote:
American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL


So losing 700 FAs makes PHX a 1560 FA operation (which seems to be in line with the current flight levels).
 
NYCAAer
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:19 pm

DanDun wrote:
American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL


Also, there’s a foreign national base in BOG.
 
N649DL
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:24 pm

DanDun wrote:
American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL


Yikes. That's a big cut for PHX, unless the LAX crews are picking up PHX flying. PHX has been nothing but additions since the merger, I hope it's just for efficiency and not cutting back flights.

I for one am shocked STL still has 210. That's a spoke for AA nowadays, those crews probably live in STL and pick up trips via DFW / ORD.
 
cm642
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:49 pm

N649DL wrote:
DanDun wrote:
American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL


Yikes. That's a big cut for PHX, unless the LAX crews are picking up PHX flying. PHX has been nothing but additions since the merger, I hope it's just for efficiency and not cutting back flights.

I for one am shocked STL still has 210. That's a spoke for AA nowadays, those crews probably live in STL and pick up trips via DFW / ORD.


Per the announcement the, "While base sizing is being adjusted, the number of flights and destinations served out of PHX and St. Louis won't change. Rebalancing has nothing to do with the number of flights scheduled in these cities; this is only about properly reallocating the number of flight attendants in each base to reflect the current, now integrated, flight schedule."
 
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Lemieux
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:24 am

N649DL wrote:
DanDun wrote:
American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL


Yikes. That's a big cut for PHX, unless the LAX crews are picking up PHX flying. PHX has been nothing but additions since the merger, I hope it's just for efficiency and not cutting back flights.

I for one am shocked STL still has 210. That's a spoke for AA nowadays, those crews probably live in STL and pick up trips via DFW / ORD.

Nope, STL based FA’s take STL originating trips.
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Detroit313
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:46 am

That's great news for many. Bad news for some.

The transfer lists to LAX and DFW are very long so that is going to help way more people than the number of people it is going to hurt.
 
Jshank83
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:58 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Hasn't STL been largely reduced to a large RJ operation? I would not be surprised if there are still tons of former TWA staff in Greater St. Louis, but I still see no need for any kind of mainline base there given how strong WN has become in the STL market. I could absolutely see the rationale behind a regional E-Jet base supporting American Eagle operations on routes like STL-CLT/DCA/DFW/LGA/MIA/ORD/PHL, though.


In March STL is 50% mainline. 19 mainline, 19 RJ a day.

DFW/LAX/PHX is all mainline.
4x ORD
2x CLT
1xMIA
PHL usually gets some but doesn't have any in March.
Last edited by Jshank83 on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
USAirKid
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:59 am

Is there any timeline on when the deadline for this to occur is? Or is AA management just hoping that it happens over the next 6 to 12 months?
 
LAXLHR
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:12 am

Of course people on here (many, not all) do not get that this does not mean flight cuts!!! smh!
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
ScottB
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:15 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
PHX was IIRC artificially overstaffed due to employee integration issues at US. However, the hub seems to be thriving under the AA brand. AA probably makes a killing on the new/resumed regional routes like PHX-ASE, PHX-JAC and PHX-STS.


Along with all the new/resumed regional routes, there have been significant cuts in mainline service at PHX when compared to pre-merger days. In November 2012, US and AA combined reported 5,260 domestic arrivals at PHX -- about 175.3/day on average. In November 2018, AA reported 4,366 domestic arrivals at PHX -- about 145.5/day on average. That's a reduction of 30 daily domestic mainline arrivals and departures and nearly 30 fewer per day than WN, which averaged about 173 domestic arrivals and departures at PHX in November 2018.

N649DL wrote:
PHX has been nothing but additions since the merger, I hope it's just for efficiency and not cutting back flights.


Nope. Regional service might be up but mainline is down.

casinterest wrote:
However as part of the merger with AA, PHX doesn't mean as much to AA as LAX/DFW.

Phoenix as a city is large enough to easily support many markets for AA, but they won't sacrifice DFW/LAX for it, and I suspect more competing traffic will be started by other carriers as time goes on.


One big problem as I see it is that one of the key traffic flows over PHX in the America West/US Airways days was cheap connections from Southern California to the rest of the U.S. A legacy carrier with a hub at LAX doesn't necessarily want to compete with itself by undercutting its own non-stop service from the hub. The other big problem is that they can't dominate PHX with WN on the other side of Terminal 4, and WN controls pricing on non-stops from PHX. CLT-LGA next week on AA runs about $1000 round-trip if you want a non-stop. PHX-SFO can be had for a bit over $500 round-trip.

cm642 wrote:
Per the announcement the, "While base sizing is being adjusted, the number of flights and destinations served out of PHX and St. Louis won't change. Rebalancing has nothing to do with the number of flights scheduled in these cities; this is only about properly reallocating the number of flight attendants in each base to reflect the current, now integrated, flight schedule."


That statement is worth about as much as the electrons upon which it is written. Flight schedules are always subject to change, and there will be no public change of plans for any of the hubs until they announce a change of plans.
 
cm642
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:30 am

ScottB wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
cm642 wrote:
Per the announcement the, "While base sizing is being adjusted, the number of flights and destinations served out of PHX and St. Louis won't change. Rebalancing has nothing to do with the number of flights scheduled in these cities; this is only about properly reallocating the number of flight attendants in each base to reflect the current, now integrated, flight schedule."


That statement is worth about as much as the electrons upon which it is written. Flight schedules are always subject to change, and there will be no public change of plans for any of the hubs until they announce a change of plans.


I think the point people are making here is that PHX has been right sized since the merger and currently the station is over staffed, so those flight attendants are being moved elsewhere in the system where the demand is needed such as LAX and DFW which have grown since the merger. It's not the doom and gloom scenario people keep repeating of the hub being abandoned completely but more of it still being right sized.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:21 am

As said PHX has been overstaffed pretty much since the original HP-US merger, and certainly since the draw down of the Legacy HP LAS hub. West staff operated a lot of US Airways' transcon flights and also east coast flights out of PHL and CLT in the middle of multi-day trips. This was predominantly done to give them flying to do rather than because it was an efficient use of staff. This been an issue for the best part of 15 years, so while it is sad for PHX it is not altogether unexpected.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm

Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:29 am

I'm honestly shocked the STL base is even still open. It's the only remaining vestige of TWA at AA, although JFK is beginning to look like TWA's JFK operation.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3118
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:45 am

N649DL wrote:
DanDun wrote:
American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL


Yikes. That's a big cut for PHX, unless the LAX crews are picking up PHX flying. PHX has been nothing but additions since the merger, I hope it's just for efficiency and not cutting back flights.

I for one am shocked STL still has 210. That's a spoke for AA nowadays, those crews probably live in STL and pick up trips via DFW / ORD.


Crews aren't required, and generally don't, live in the base they fly out of. It's simply where their trips start and end.
From my cold, dead hands
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm

Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:17 am

DanDun wrote:
American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL


Isn't there a foreign national base in BOG too?
 
acentauri
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:35 am

Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:28 am

IMO, PHX's future is based on Parker's continuing personal direction. LAX/DFW are just way too close geographically to continue justifying the financial support required for a major airline HUB. Parker is emotionally attached to PHX and that's a very risky and economically poor reason to sustain it at current levels.
LAX may be severely land/gate constrained, but AA essentially OWNS DFW and could expand there almost without restriction. PHX's cheapness will only carry it so far before it becomes overtaken (if not already) by the realities of its negative contribution to more effectively compete with WN domestically and DL globally. I believe that PHX will become a Spoke in the AA network at latest during the next economic downturn, which will be used to add justification for the decision.

Unfortunately PHX, is not CLT, which is operationally by far the cheapest Hub, is essentially isolated from competitors and is also ideally located to funnel large swaths of domestic network connecting traffic to support its relatively low O&D. Unfortunately, PHX's impressive domestic O&D is typically low yielding and not offset by significant connecting premiums. BTW, I despise the chaos of LAX, compared to PHX and if my prediction manifests, I won't be the happiest camper. :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:34 am

I think it is only a matter of time before the STL base becomes a DFW satellite and the RDU base becomes a CLT satellite. It makes little sense to have all that infrastructure for so few employees.
 
panam330
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:37 am

Ionosphere wrote:
Isn't there a foreign national base in BOG too?

Si señor, there is indeed.
 
Noise
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:41 am

Meh, I doubt PHX is going anywhere. They've been adding at PHX ever since the merger. Keep in mind that, like TX, AZ is a very fast-growing state.
 
airzona11
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:42 am

acentauri wrote:
IMO, PHX's future is based on Parker's continuing personal direction. LAX/DFW are just way too close geographically to continue justifying the financial support required for a major airline HUB. Parker is emotionally attached to PHX and that's a very risky and economically poor reason to sustain it at current levels.
LAX may be severely land/gate constrained, but AA essentially OWNS DFW and could expand there almost without restriction. PHX's cheapness will only carry it so far before it becomes overtaken (if not already) by the realities of its negative contribution to more effectively compete with WN domestically and DL globally. I believe that PHX will become a Spoke in the AA network at latest during the next economic downturn, which will be used to add justification for the decision.

Unfortunately PHX, is not CLT, which is operationally by far the cheapest Hub, is essentially isolated from competitors and is also ideally located to funnel large swaths of domestic network connecting traffic to support its relatively low O&D. Unfortunately, PHX's impressive domestic O&D is typically low yielding and not offset by significant connecting premiums. BTW, I despise the chaos of LAX, compared to PHX and if my prediction manifests, I won't be the happiest camper. :stirthepot: :stirthepot:


But they aren't cutting flights to a spoke. This is a tired argument. As pointed out, AA has right sized and continues to right size PHX, but has kept the staffing numbers high. This rationalizes that. AA is bigger than WN in PHX. There no evidence anywhere that suggests a negative contribution. What does "Delta globally" have anything to do with PHX? This post is based on the premise that Parker is "emotionally attached to PHX and risky and economically poor to sustain at current levels. AAs performance and financials, WNs pretty flat growth in PHX, etc, you name, all disprove what your premise.
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 415
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:15 am

DanDun wrote:
American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL


Was anyone else surprised at how low ORD is on this list?
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:42 am

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
DanDun wrote:
American has 13 domestic bases
DFW- 5600 Based there
MIA- 4000
NYC- 2800
CLT-2700
LAX -2600
PHL-2600
ORD-2400
PHX- 2260
DCA-820
BOS-420
SFO-415
STL-210
RDU-95
They also have 3 bases in South America in EZE, LIM and SCL


Was anyone else surprised at how low ORD is on this list?


Yeah I was too. I was surprised that AA needs such a large NYC crew base since they only have a skeleton network remaining at JFK and LGA is mostly regional. Seems like they could cut it by about 60%.
 
Adipocere
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:42 am

What is the “right size” for PHX? Will it be similar to its geographical compatriots in ABQ or TUS? Or more like a modern day STL or SJC?
 
Vctony
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:09 am

airzona11 wrote:
acentauri wrote:
IMO, PHX's future is based on Parker's continuing personal direction. LAX/DFW are just way too close geographically to continue justifying the financial support required for a major airline HUB. Parker is emotionally attached to PHX and that's a very risky and economically poor reason to sustain it at current levels.
LAX may be severely land/gate constrained, but AA essentially OWNS DFW and could expand there almost without restriction. PHX's cheapness will only carry it so far before it becomes overtaken (if not already) by the realities of its negative contribution to more effectively compete with WN domestically and DL globally. I believe that PHX will become a Spoke in the AA network at latest during the next economic downturn, which will be used to add justification for the decision.

Unfortunately PHX, is not CLT, which is operationally by far the cheapest Hub, is essentially isolated from competitors and is also ideally located to funnel large swaths of domestic network connecting traffic to support its relatively low O&D. Unfortunately, PHX's impressive domestic O&D is typically low yielding and not offset by significant connecting premiums. BTW, I despise the chaos of LAX, compared to PHX and if my prediction manifests, I won't be the happiest camper. :stirthepot: :stirthepot:


But they aren't cutting flights to a spoke. This is a tired argument. As pointed out, AA has right sized and continues to right size PHX, but has kept the staffing numbers high. This rationalizes that. AA is bigger than WN in PHX. There no evidence anywhere that suggests a negative contribution. What does "Delta globally" have anything to do with PHX? This post is based on the premise that Parker is "emotionally attached to PHX and risky and economically poor to sustain at current levels. AAs performance and financials, WNs pretty flat growth in PHX, etc, you name, all disprove what your premise.


A lot of people on a.net seem to be stuck in a 2008 version of Phoenix rather than the current reality.

1.) Phoenix is significantly more economically diverse in 2019 than it was in 2008. It's no longer the home of solely low wage jobs, retirees, and snowbirds. There has been significant growth in the tech and medical fields (in the depth and breadth of jobs located in these areas).

2.) WN has been stagnant at PHX for over a decade. Almost all WN "growth" has been from upgauging flights from the 733 or 735 to the 738 or 7M8. As the percentage of the total WN fleet becomes more skewed toward 175 seat aircraft, the total percentage of flights out of PHX on 175 aircraft increases and WN shows "growth" that simply doesn't exist in terms of destinations served or daily departures. In fact WN has recently relegated LIT and essentially has relegated DTW and SDF to "seasonal" routes (as both destinations are served 1x weekly during the winter).

3.) AA's passenger numbers at PHX are up YOY, they have added a number of regional routes, and are adding year round LHR service.

4.) If AA dehubs PHX it will open the market up to other carriers who will fill most of the void left. I can imagine AS and DL would operate more P2P routes (on profitable city pairs) and B6, F9, NK, and WN would expand where it makes sense. I doubt AA wants to lose this market completely to other carriers.
 
Vctony
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:17 am

Adipocere wrote:
What is the “right size” for PHX? Will it be similar to its geographical compatriots in ABQ or TUS? Or more like a modern day STL or SJC?


The "right size" for PHX is about what it is at right now.

Truly the worst case scenario is an O/D focused focus city with flights to: BOS, CLT, DCA, DFW, HNL, JFK, LAS, LAX, MIA, ORD, PDX, PHL, SAN, SEA, SFO, and SJC. I'd also add AUS, CUN, MEX, PVR, SAT, and SJD to the mix potentially as well. Worst case is probably 80 or so mainline and most, if not all regional gone.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:21 am

mmahpeel wrote:
I'm assuming most of the 700 being cut out of PHX will be forced/surplussed to LAX?

Hard to imagine that many hundreds of PHX crew will just voluntarily transfer to LAX.

Far easier to deadhead PHX-LA than PHX-Dallas. Even a Double D over LAS would be easier, IMHO.
 
B747forever
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:30 am

Can all those that say PHX will be dehubbed just explain why AA is then adding to PHX and will even start LHR? Surely LHR is already well covered from LAX/DFW which apparently are the hubs that can cover all of PHX network.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:13 pm

PHX serves an import role, albeit not huge role, in connecting the dots on the west coast and mountain region. Not having PHX would require significant back tracking or odd angles if your only options are LAX or DFW. Finally, relying on LAX only is no bueno as LAX is a hugely crowded hub/airport as it currently stands and is likely to remain that way.

PHX is almost never weather delayed (except for extreme heat and summer monsoon situations), is comparatively uncongested, and serves a geographic market region.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:35 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
I'm honestly shocked the STL base is even still open. It's the only remaining vestige of TWA at AA, although JFK is beginning to look like TWA's JFK operation.


Last line was funny!
 
N649DL
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:43 pm

ScottB wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
PHX was IIRC artificially overstaffed due to employee integration issues at US. However, the hub seems to be thriving under the AA brand. AA probably makes a killing on the new/resumed regional routes like PHX-ASE, PHX-JAC and PHX-STS.


Along with all the new/resumed regional routes, there have been significant cuts in mainline service at PHX when compared to pre-merger days. In November 2012, US and AA combined reported 5,260 domestic arrivals at PHX -- about 175.3/day on average. In November 2018, AA reported 4,366 domestic arrivals at PHX -- about 145.5/day on average. That's a reduction of 30 daily domestic mainline arrivals and departures and nearly 30 fewer per day than WN, which averaged about 173 domestic arrivals and departures at PHX in November 2018.

N649DL wrote:
PHX has been nothing but additions since the merger, I hope it's just for efficiency and not cutting back flights.


Nope. Regional service might be up but mainline is down.

casinterest wrote:
However as part of the merger with AA, PHX doesn't mean as much to AA as LAX/DFW.

Phoenix as a city is large enough to easily support many markets for AA, but they won't sacrifice DFW/LAX for it, and I suspect more competing traffic will be started by other carriers as time goes on.


One big problem as I see it is that one of the key traffic flows over PHX in the America West/US Airways days was cheap connections from Southern California to the rest of the U.S. A legacy carrier with a hub at LAX doesn't necessarily want to compete with itself by undercutting its own non-stop service from the hub. The other big problem is that they can't dominate PHX with WN on the other side of Terminal 4, and WN controls pricing on non-stops from PHX. CLT-LGA next week on AA runs about $1000 round-trip if you want a non-stop. PHX-SFO can be had for a bit over $500 round-trip.

cm642 wrote:
Per the announcement the, "While base sizing is being adjusted, the number of flights and destinations served out of PHX and St. Louis won't change. Rebalancing has nothing to do with the number of flights scheduled in these cities; this is only about properly reallocating the number of flight attendants in each base to reflect the current, now integrated, flight schedule."


That statement is worth about as much as the electrons upon which it is written. Flight schedules are always subject to change, and there will be no public change of plans for any of the hubs until they announce a change of plans.


Regional is up but mainline is down? That's like, most US hubs in general. Every time UA makes an addition out of EWR or ORD it seems to be on an ERJ or E170.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:12 pm

Just to add clarification, as so many have tried to make PHX as a hub is doing very well and is a strategic and integral part of the long term plans. This has nothing to do with PHX flying and everything to do with the FAs now being in one integrated system. PHX had 700 more FAs than needed for current flying. DFW and LAX are adding 700 FA's. System wide they are hiring about 1000 new FA's this year after hiring 2000 last year. No flying reduction at any hubs. This is nothing more than some internal house keeping. And btw they are trying not to make people move they will let it happy voluntarily and via natural attrition.
 
jagraham
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Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:26 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Just to add clarification, as so many have tried to make PHX as a hub is doing very well and is a strategic and integral part of the long term plans. This has nothing to do with PHX flying and everything to do with the FAs now being in one integrated system. PHX had 700 more FAs than needed for current flying. DFW and LAX are adding 700 FA's. System wide they are hiring about 1000 new FA's this year after hiring 2000 last year. No flying reduction at any hubs. This is nothing more than some internal house keeping. And btw they are trying not to make people move they will let it happy voluntarily and via natural attrition.


Internal housekeeping made possible by the very recent transition and integration of the computer systems. Before computer integration, US FAs had to be managed separately.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 31
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Re: AA resize FA crew bases - grow DFW + LAX, shrink PHX + STL

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:29 pm

acentauri wrote:
LAX may be severely land/gate constrained, but AA essentially OWNS DFW and could expand there almost without restriction. PHX's cheapness will only carry it so far before it becomes overtaken (if not already) by the realities of its negative contribution to more effectively compete with WN domestically and DL globally. I believe that PHX will become a Spoke in the AA network at latest during the next economic downturn, which will be used to add justification for the decision.

Unfortunately PHX, is not CLT, which is operationally by far the cheapest Hub, is essentially isolated from competitors and is also ideally located to funnel large swaths of domestic network connecting traffic to support its relatively low O&D. Unfortunately, PHX's impressive domestic O&D is typically low yielding and not offset by significant connecting premiums. BTW, I despise the chaos of LAX, compared to PHX and if my prediction manifests, I won't be the happiest camper. :stirthepot: :stirthepot:


I don't even know what to say about this post.........

When comparing against LAX, I think you are forgetting the fact that Phoenix has positive contribution to AA's bottom line. LAX is a money loser for AA and this is amplified by the fact that they compete with 3 other airlines (DL, UA, WN) for market share. This has been stated publicly in investor presentations. Therefore, even though AA has to compete with WN in Phoenix, at least they have a positive margin. In LAX, they lose money.

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