armchairceonr1
Topic Author
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:09 am

Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:56 am

I just checked what routes Norwegian have for sale for W19/20 vs what they offer this winter.

For sale:

JFK-AMS
JFK-LGW
JFK-MAD
JFK-CDG

EWR-BCN
EWR-FCO

BOS-LGW

LAX-BCN
LAX-LGW
LAX-MAD
LAX-CDG

MCO-LGW
MCO-CDG
MIA-LGW

TPA-LGW

Not for sale anymore for W19/20:

JFK-CPH
JFK-OSL
JFK-ARN

EWR-ORY

SWF-DUB
SWF-EDI

BOS-CDG

PVD-DUB

LAS-LGW

LAX-CPH
LAX-OSL

MCO-OSL
MCO-ARN

FLL-CPH
FLL-LGW
FLL-OSL
FLL-CDG
FLL-ARN

DEN-LGW

OAK-BCN
OAK-LGW
OAK-CDG

ORD-LGW

It looks like they are very heavily downsizing their Transatlantic service for low season. Any thoughts?
 
LHUSA
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:20 am

My guess is that winter schedules are not nearly finalized so far out. But I’m also not very familiar with Norwegian’s schedule releases.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 3074
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:43 am

Correct; the schedules are not finalized. Whereas many airlines do a full batch release of winter and summer, Norwegian releases schedules as they are ready.
 
Blerg
Posts: 1901
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:12 am

You should add to your list the recently announced JFK-ATH.
Any special reason why some routes are from JFK while some others from EWR?
 
a350lover
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:01 am

I posted weeks ago about the lack of schedules on sale for the winter season to EVERYWHERE from OAK or FLL, and my guess is that many routes will follow the same luck OAK/FLL-LGW services which starting this Apr19 are switched on to main airports SFO and MIA. Considering how they are acting in BCN (4th frame arriving in summer, increase in LAX to 6x/w, EWR daily), I think it is very realistic to see them flying to SFO and MIA also from there.

For whatever reason we may/may not agree Norwegian seems 100% committed to continue with the TATL plan for the 787s.

My guess is they are just planning short-term. They need to get money quickly and they need the summer to achieve good results no matter what. The announcements done yesterday are a good proof for that. Both routes seasonal, both routes aiming to catch a nice part of a good market: cruisers. They have the fleet because DY still will add 5 more 789s this year, another 5 next year. On top of that, I believe Norwegian has only one unit of 787 yet affected by the RR issues, soon to be ready for flying again. This could only mean growths if they do not announce any "financial measures" meanwhile.

As much as we (all) have discussed the viability of all this model, which is mostly going towards much served/saturated markets, Norwegian seems to have done the numbers and they should be making some money out of it in order to continue. I find it interesting that the balance sheet of the group NAS starts to see the debt increasing and the numbers on the red only after they add the TATL and the 787 to the fleet. And I say that not because I would like to see Norwegian falling (who would?!!!), just because FT and many economy publications have talked about it also.

I only wish they can make their way to profitability and find a comprehensible and stable schedule.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:17 am

The fact that the schedule doesn't show yet doesn't mean the route has been canceled, it might still come. Some of those routes are their key routes, so I don't expect them to cut those. On the other hand, Norwegian has done some pretty insane things before. As if they're only trying to speed up their bankruptcy.

I've never heard about such practice related to aviation, but it has happened that the management of a company with debts have deliberately let their business go bankrupt. After that happened, they come in with a second company also owned by them and buy the assets. It's a way to get rid of the debts.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4226
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:37 am

Blerg wrote:
Any special reason why some routes are from JFK while some others from EWR?


Slots/terminal space at JFK
 
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enilria
Posts: 9386
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:53 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
The fact that the schedule doesn't show yet doesn't mean the route has been canceled, it might still come. Some of those routes are their key routes, so I don't expect them to cut those. On the other hand, Norwegian has done some pretty insane things before. As if they're only trying to speed up their bankruptcy.

I've never heard about such practice related to aviation, but it has happened that the management of a company with debts have deliberately let their business go bankrupt. After that happened, they come in with a second company also owned by them and buy the assets. It's a way to get rid of the debts.

This is another Norwegian bashing thread. JetBlue isn’t selling their Winter 19/20 schedule. I guess they are liquidating.
 
armchairceonr1
Topic Author
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:48 pm

Update:

For sale:

JFK-AMS
JFK-LGW
JFK-MAD
JFK-CDG
JFK-OSL

EWR-BCN
EWR-FCO

BOS-LGW

PVD-DUB

LAX-BCN
LAX-LGW
LAX-MAD
LAX-CDG

MCO-LGW
MCO-CDG

MIA-LGW

TPA-LGW

SFO-LGW

Not for sale anymore for W19/20:

JFK-CPH
JFK-ARN

EWR-ORY

SWF-DUB
SWF-EDI

BOS-CDG

LAS-LGW

LAX-CPH
LAX-OSL

MCO-OSL
MCO-ARN

FLL-CPH
FLL-LGW
FLL-OSL
FLL-CDG
FLL-ARN

OAK-BCN
OAK-LGW
OAK-CDG

ORD-LGW

DEN-LGW

What their 787's is going to do next winter, wet lease maybe? They can't park those for months.
armchairceonr1 wrote:
I just checked what routes Norwegian have for sale for W19/20 vs what they offer this winter.

For sale:

JFK-AMS
JFK-LGW
JFK-MAD
JFK-CDG

EWR-BCN
EWR-FCO

BOS-LGW

LAX-BCN
LAX-LGW
LAX-MAD
LAX-CDG

MCO-LGW
MCO-CDG
MIA-LGW

TPA-LGW

Not for sale anymore for W19/20:

JFK-CPH
JFK-OSL
JFK-ARN

EWR-ORY

SWF-DUB
SWF-EDI

BOS-CDG

PVD-DUB

LAS-LGW

LAX-CPH
LAX-OSL

MCO-OSL
MCO-ARN

FLL-CPH
FLL-LGW
FLL-OSL
FLL-CDG
FLL-ARN

DEN-LGW

OAK-BCN
OAK-LGW
OAK-CDG

ORD-LGW

It looks like they are very heavily downsizing their Transatlantic service for low season. Any thoughts?
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:23 pm

Blerg wrote:
You should add to your list the recently announced JFK-ATH.


That is a seasonal service, was never meant to be operated in the winter.
 
by738
Posts: 2918
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:44 pm

... so overall some fuss over nothing?
 
LHUSA
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:00 pm

by738 wrote:
... so overall some fuss over nothing?


??

They appear to have drastically cut their TATL routes vs the previous winter. Certainly something to discuss. It would be late now to file those winter routes.
 
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Ytraveller
Posts: 1287
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:47 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:05 pm

LAS-LGW is another summer seasonal operation. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... /94025902/
 
OB1504
Posts: 3604
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:19 pm

Is Privilege Style still going to be operating the LGW-MIA route?
 
Someone83
Posts: 4226
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:20 pm

armchairceonr1 wrote:
Not for sale anymore for W19/20:


FLL-OSL


OSL-FLL is for sale. But seems to be only 2x weekly from mid-November
 
bluefrog
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:22 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:23 pm

i know this is about the TATL flights but as i'm thinking of going to southern Asia end Nov/Dec i had a quick look at a CDG-BKK which was via ARN the price for the basic y with seats on all flights but meals only on ARN-BKK section and 1 x 20kg bag will set me back 744.91 euros ! while with southern china a return via CAN will set me back less than 400 do you think they will be lightinhg their asians routes as well ?
 
PVD757
Posts: 3212
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:13 pm

SWF-DUB is daily+ this coming winter.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5122
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:07 pm

What about MAD-BOS and MAD-FLL?
 
LHUSA
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:23 pm

PVD757 wrote:
SWF-DUB is daily+ this coming winter.


Right, as noted by OP that is running this winter.
 
globalflyer
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:15 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:44 pm

Yea... I could not find DEN in the Winter schedule. A shame...
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:45 pm

I am no expert on selling tickets.

But its almost july.
Shoudn’t the winter routes already be on sale? Norwegian and JetBlue and whoever one?
 
chonetsao
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:48 pm

LHUSA wrote:
PVD757 wrote:
SWF-DUB is daily+ this coming winter.


Right, as noted by OP that is running this winter.

I don't know where you saw, but this route is clearly marked by OP that is not for sale, contrary to PVD757 post.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3212
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:34 am

chonetsao wrote:
LHUSA wrote:
PVD757 wrote:
SWF-DUB is daily+ this coming winter.


Right, as noted by OP that is running this winter.

I don't know where you saw, but this route is clearly marked by OP that is not for sale, contrary to PVD757 post.


SWF-DUB is listed in both lists above as “not for sale anymore for W19/20.”

It IS indeed for sale and is incorrectly listed.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:39 am

armchairceonr1 wrote:
I just checked what routes Norwegian have for sale for W19/20 vs what they offer this winter.

For sale:

JFK-AMS
JFK-LGW
JFK-MAD
JFK-CDG

EWR-BCN
EWR-FCO

BOS-LGW

LAX-BCN
LAX-LGW
LAX-MAD
LAX-CDG

MCO-LGW
MCO-CDG
MIA-LGW

TPA-LGW

Not for sale anymore for W19/20:

JFK-CPH
JFK-OSL
JFK-ARN

EWR-ORY

SWF-DUB
SWF-EDI

BOS-CDG

PVD-DUB

LAS-LGW

LAX-CPH
LAX-OSL

MCO-OSL
MCO-ARN

FLL-CPH
FLL-LGW
FLL-OSL
FLL-CDG
FLL-ARN

DEN-LGW

OAK-BCN
OAK-LGW
OAK-CDG

ORD-LGW

It looks like they are very heavily downsizing their Transatlantic service for low season. Any thoughts?


EWR-ORY was dropped early in 2019 and it was a permanent cut.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2973
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:52 am

Does that mean DEN market is closed till seasonal return or a complete pullout?
 
User avatar
LuxuryTravelled
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:06 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:48 am

Ytraveller wrote:
LAS-LGW is another summer seasonal operation. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... /94025902/


I have been told that Gatwick to Vegas is a perminant cancellation, not just summer only.
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1864
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:04 am

SWF-EDI was to be dropped permnanently last March, it ended early when the MAX shut down hit. They are flying thin as it is with them idle and wet leasing all kinds of aircraft to cover all kinds of routes, so I wouldn't expect finalizations.
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3188
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Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:49 pm

JFK-CPH/ARN being cutsurprises me as those were their first routes to the U.S and are known very well both in Scandinavia. Flew both routes numerous times too and were always full (in the winter).
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr. (Only a little more)
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5369
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:59 pm

lesfalls wrote:
JFK-CPH/ARN being cutsurprises me as those were their first routes to the U.S and are known very well both in Scandinavia. Flew both routes numerous times too and were always full (in the winter).



It is ironic given their name.

Also, SAS flies to EWR not JFK.

Either way, this is a rearrangement of their schedule to try to get somewhat profitable I assume.

Their seems to be a fantasy world on a.net where:

-The ME3 could expand with giant planes going to desert cities with little or small O and D vs the seats they were offering

-Iceland was an undiscovered paradise that was in line for a double hub and 40 percent increase in pax

-Norwegian could defy decades of TA economics and flood the market with expensive 787s and 737s connecting non hubs to non hubs while using several different operating certificates

I guess I am the old, staid poster that said none of it was sustainable.

It wasnt. It isnt.

The chickens have come home to roost.
 
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SASViking
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:06 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:19 pm

lesfalls wrote:
JFK-CPH/ARN being cutsurprises me as those were their first routes to the U.S and are known very well both in Scandinavia. Flew both routes numerous times too and were always full (in the winter).

One thing is having a full aircraft, it's a whole different story to earn money on it. Norwegian often advertise CPH-JFK for $150-ish. You fill your aircraft with those prices but you'll lose money on it.
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
finnishway
Posts: 556
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:17 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:26 pm

Maybe they just should follow Eurowings and give up longhaul and focus on shorthaul. Better to make airline financially stable and not go out of business when oil prices go up and next depression hits.
 
santi319
Posts: 796
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:30 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
JFK-CPH/ARN being cutsurprises me as those were their first routes to the U.S and are known very well both in Scandinavia. Flew both routes numerous times too and were always full (in the winter).



It is ironic given their name.

Also, SAS flies to EWR not JFK.

Either way, this is a rearrangement of their schedule to try to get somewhat profitable I assume.

Their seems to be a fantasy world on a.net where:

-The ME3 could expand with giant planes going to desert cities with little or small O and D vs the seats they were offering

-Iceland was an undiscovered paradise that was in line for a double hub and 40 percent increase in pax

-Norwegian could defy decades of TA economics and flood the market with expensive 787s and 737s connecting non hubs to non hubs while using several different operating certificates

I guess I am the old, staid poster that said none of it was sustainable.

It wasnt. It isnt.

The chickens have come home to roost.


You sir, make too much sense! Spot on!
 
LHUSA
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:03 pm

PVD757 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
LHUSA wrote:

Right, as noted by OP that is running this winter.

I don't know where you saw, but this route is clearly marked by OP that is not for sale, contrary to PVD757 post.


SWF-DUB is listed in both lists above as “not for sale anymore for W19/20.”

It IS indeed for sale and is incorrectly listed.


My bad! I must have had too much to drink ;)
 
Blerg
Posts: 1901
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:08 pm

finnishway wrote:
Maybe they just should follow Eurowings and give up longhaul and focus on shorthaul. Better to make airline financially stable and not go out of business when oil prices go up and next depression hits.


I think it's too late for that, what would they do with all the long-haul aircraft they currently operate and that they have on order? EW can simply hand them over to another LH Group airline and move on.
 
Mangs
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:09 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:24 pm

Blerg wrote:
finnishway wrote:
Maybe they just should follow Eurowings and give up longhaul and focus on shorthaul. Better to make airline financially stable and not go out of business when oil prices go up and next depression hits.


I think it's too late for that, what would they do with all the long-haul aircraft they currently operate and that they have on order? EW can simply hand them over to another LH Group airline and move on.


Replace the rolls royce engines on them to be ready to operate summer of 2020 without wetlease? :lol:
 
twicearound
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:25 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
JFK-CPH/ARN being cutsurprises me as those were their first routes to the U.S and are known very well both in Scandinavia. Flew both routes numerous times too and were always full (in the winter).



It is ironic given their name.

Also, SAS flies to EWR not JFK.

Either way, this is a rearrangement of their schedule to try to get somewhat profitable I assume.

Their seems to be a fantasy world on a.net where:

-The ME3 could expand with giant planes going to desert cities with little or small O and D vs the seats they were offering

-Iceland was an undiscovered paradise that was in line for a double hub and 40 percent increase in pax

-Norwegian could defy decades of TA economics and flood the market with expensive 787s and 737s connecting non hubs to non hubs while using several different operating certificates

I guess I am the old, staid poster that said none of it was sustainable.

It wasnt. It isnt.

The chickens have come home to roost.


Well said.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2065
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:49 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
What about MAD-BOS and MAD-FLL?


MAD-BOS and FCO-BOS were definitely summer season only. CDG was at least through december last winter and all 3 exist through Oct 19 as far as I can tell, but thus far, they are not available beyond that. not saying that won't change, but for right now, only LGW is bookable long term from BOS.
Last edited by VS4ever on Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4425
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Norwegian Trans-Atlantic service route cuts in W19?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:52 pm

OKAY, so what's the required B787 fleet size for the winter?

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