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SQ789
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Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:11 am

EK is launching to Porto starting July 2 with a 3 class 777-300ER. Will be flown 4 times a weak.

https://twitter.com/emirates/status/1097769909868785664
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
dfpinto
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:35 am

Great news for Northern Portugal and Galicia region.

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... e-to-porto

It is clear from their press release what is the target audience for this flight:

The schedule enables travellers to easily and conveniently connect to Emirates’ flights from Dubai International Airport to popular destinations, such as Luanda, Johannesburg, Bangkok, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Melbourne and Sydney, amongst others.
 
TC957
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:41 am

I'm surprised they haven't started AGP yet.
 
worldranger
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:12 am

Also a cargo play, most of the freight out of LIS is trucked from Galicia/Porto
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:39 am

TC957 wrote:
I'm surprised they haven't started AGP yet.


It's not a matter of if but when.

OTOH, internal sources are telling me that VLC is being considered as well given TK success in VLC.

dfpinto wrote:
Great news for Northern Portugal and Galicia region.

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... e-to-porto

It is clear from their press release what is the target audience for this flight:

The schedule enables travellers to easily and conveniently connect to Emirates’ flights from Dubai International Airport to popular destinations, such as Luanda, Johannesburg, Bangkok, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Melbourne and Sydney, amongst others.


Well, I don't see that many people using DXB as a stoppover from OPO to JNB or LAD. Clear target is Asia bound traffic being able to get to many cities on one-stop.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
SCQ83
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:48 am

upperdeckfan wrote:
Well, I don't see that many people using DXB as a stoppover from OPO to JNB or LAD. Clear target is Asia bound traffic being able to get to many cities on one-stop.


Obviously OPO has much stronger links with JNB or LAD than with anywhere in Asia.

TAAG flies LAD-OPO non-stop and there is a large Portuguese community in South Africa.
 
B8887
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:33 am

Excellent news.

Although not the capital, the Porto region is pretty important economically and demographically, with, indeed, a dense manufacturing and industry network that may play well with the cargo side of things..

Regards.

B8887
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:26 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
Well, I don't see that many people using DXB as a stoppover from OPO to JNB or LAD. Clear target is Asia bound traffic being able to get to many cities on one-stop.


Obviously OPO has much stronger links with JNB or LAD than with anywhere in Asia.

TAAG flies LAD-OPO non-stop and there is a large Portuguese community in South Africa.


Obviously there are much more convenient routings from OPO to LAD/JNB avoiding the huge backtracking through DXB.

Besides TG's LAD-OPO, LAD-LIS is 2 to 3xdaily and JNB is served from all the major european gateways.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:27 pm

I meant DT's LAD-OPO
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
x1234
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:50 pm

I wonder why EK is launching Porto instead of Helsinki, the last city in Europe that’s very economically important not yet launched by EK!? (Flydubai doesn’t count)
 
SCQ83
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:58 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
[Obviously there are much more convenient routings from OPO to LAD/JNB avoiding the huge backtracking through DXB.

Besides TG's LAD-OPO, LAD-LIS is 2 to 3xdaily and JNB is served from all the major european gateways.


I don't think there are many more convenient routes. Flying via an European hub is a backtracking itself (going North to go South). LAD is not particularly well connected to Europe and has lost a few carriers due to the Angolan crisis (Iberia or British Airways among them).

x1234 wrote:
I wonder why EK is launching Porto instead of Helsinki, the last city in Europe that’s very economically important not yet launched by EK!? (Flydubai doesn’t count)


Portugal has (by far) the highest % of any Western European nation of foreigners living abroad. +20% of Portuguese have migrated. Proportionally more Portuguese from the North (OPO) migrate compared to LIS (capital effect) or the South / FAO (tourism effect).

Many of them to former colonies like Angola or Mozambique but increasingly to Asia or the GCC.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/ ... ve-abroad/

That explains why OPO figures are so high despite being one of the poorest regions in Western Europe. VFR traffic. Not very different than Albania or Romania.
 
sw733
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:34 pm

This is great. Porto and the region around it is truly amazing. I also have a colleague who regularly has to fly MEL-LIS to get to Porto, and will be thrilled to be able to do a one-stop right in to Porto.

Great news for a great city.
 
pabloeing
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:13 pm

Amazing news for Porto and the Galicia region in spain....for cities like Vigo or Santiago de Compostela will be awesome to get this flight ¡¡¡¡
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:24 pm

x1234 wrote:
I wonder why EK is launching Porto instead of Helsinki, the last city in Europe that’s very economically important not yet launched by EK!? (Flydubai doesn’t count)


Helsinki is so tiny, even the entire metro area is small in population. Additionally its so well over served with service to Asia because of connections. I think them not flying there makes alot of sense.
 
kipfilet
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:01 pm

pabloeing wrote:
Amazing news for Porto and the Galicia region in spain....for cities like Vigo or Santiago de Compostela will be awesome to get this flight ¡¡¡¡

Yes, this is the right way of looking at this: Porto is not only the seat of a 1.9M metro area (adjacent to two other large metro areas, Braga w/ close to 1M and Aveiro w/ 700k), but is also a gateway to Galicia.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:17 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I wonder why EK is launching Porto instead of Helsinki, the last city in Europe that’s very economically important not yet launched by EK!? (Flydubai doesn’t count)


Helsinki is so tiny, even the entire metro area is small in population. Additionally its so well over served with service to Asia because of connections. I think them not flying there makes alot of sense.

And even it was FlyDubai serving HEL, not EK. QR also serves HEL, but they haven't served Portugal yet.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
konkret
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:22 am

x1234 wrote:
I wonder why EK is launching Porto instead of Helsinki, the last city in Europe that’s very economically important not yet launched by EK!? (Flydubai doesn’t count)


By what measure is Helsinki more important economically than Berlin, Stuttgart or Turin?
 
worldranger
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:36 am

EK would launch Stuttgart and Berlin tomorrow if allowed but due bilaterals they are not. Turin too close to MXP, three flights per day.
 
konkret
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:39 am

worldranger wrote:
EK would launch Stuttgart and Berlin tomorrow if allowed but due bilaterals they are not. Turin too close to MXP, three flights per day.


I know the reasons why EK can’t or don’t start those 3 routes - just saying that Helsinki is NOT the economically biggest European city without EK service.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:34 am

kipfilet wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
Amazing news for Porto and the Galicia region in spain....for cities like Vigo or Santiago de Compostela will be awesome to get this flight ¡¡¡¡

Yes, this is the right way of looking at this: Porto is not only the seat of a 1.9M metro area (adjacent to two other large metro areas, Braga w/ close to 1M and Aveiro w/ 700k), but is also a gateway to Galicia.


I don't understand why Galicia is mentioned so many times in this thread :)

I am well aware OPO is heavily used by people from Southern Galicia (specially Vigo considering their Pinypon airport) but in Northern Galicia I would say things are quite different. Santiago to Porto is 250 km. with non-stop, usable public transportation being non-existent (you should go by bus/train to Vigo, then change to bus to OPO; and that with very limited schedules). From A Coruña, Porto is +300 km. Driving back and forth is +500 km.

Most people I know just use SCQ or MAD. MAD is much further away but public transportation (plane, train, bus) is unbeatable and 24/7/365 (and of course the offer of flights in MAD and OPO are like apples and oranges). When the high speed train is fully operational to Madrid (that should be by 2021; two years from now), for instance from Ourense (one of the 4 provinces in Galicia) it will take 2h15' to Madrid Chamartín. That means that Downtown Ourense to Madrid T4 will take 2h30' in a confortable train. Santiago to MAD will take less than 3 hours. It will be quicker than to OPO.

On the other hand, it is certain that many tourists and pilgrims use both OPO and SCQ whether with open-jaws (e.g. Lufthansa) or just with different Ryanair/easyJet/etc tickets. But that is a different market; just tourists trying to visit as many places as possible without "backtracking".
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:39 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I am well aware OPO is heavily used by people from Southern Galicia (specially Vigo considering their Pinypon airport) but in Northern Galicia I would say things are quite different. Santiago to Porto is 250 km. with non-stop, usable public transportation being non-existent (you should go by bus/train to Vigo, then change to bus to OPO; and that with very limited schedules). From A Coruña, Porto is +300 km. Driving back and forth is +500 km.


While I tend to agree with you in theory, the reality is that 1 million of the total of OPO's 12 million pax per year are "gallegos". It could be that the vast majority of that million prefer to fly nonstop to european cities from OPO rather than connecting via Madrid. Ryanair's fares can also play a part.

Anyway,the lack of convenient public transportation between Galicia and Oporto is an opportunity for Emirates: Launch a direct coach service from Vigo's Bus Station to OPO only for EK passengers, and include it in the ticket price. Up to 50 passengers per flight is not negligible.
 
hondah35
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:58 am

Does Porto really need a ME3 connection? Why does this feel like we're in one big air travel bubble that is going to pop with tremendous effect?
 
SCQ83
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:07 am

jmmadrid wrote:
While I tend to agree with you in theory, the reality is that 1 million of the total of OPO's 12 million pax per year are "gallegos". It could be that the vast majority of that million prefer to fly nonstop to european cities from OPO rather than connecting via Madrid. Ryanair's fares can also play a part..


That is why I said "OPO is heavily used by people from Southern Galicia (specially Vigo)".

I haven't denied that many people in Galicia use OPO. That is far from being "the reference airport for Galicia" as some posters say.

But that is mostly people from the province of Pontevedra (so we are talking about 900k people of 2.7M in Galicia; or 1/3) and as you say mostly for Ryanair or Wizzair flights to Manchester or Warsaw where those non-stop fares are unbeatable. For long-haul however OPO does not offer any particular advantage (specially from people from outside Pontevedra) compared to connecting via MAD (flying from one Galician airport) or just taking the train to Madrid. Let's say you want to fly to Buenos Aires or Mexico City (two cities with large colonies of Galicians). What is the advantage of OPO? They will rather fly you via MAD (OPO-MAD-EZE).

hondah35 wrote:
Does Porto really need a ME3 connection? Why does this feel like we're in one big air travel bubble that is going to pop with tremendous effect?


Indeed it seems we are in 2008 again. IMO OPO will be hit massively when there is a downturn. Traffic in OPO in the last ten years has grown from 4.5M (2008) to 12M (2018). It is one of those cities that (backed on the massive VFR traffic) has became "trendy" as a city break or as a larger part of a tour in Spain / Portugal. AirBNB, tourism and real estate bubble (you would be shocked at property prices in Porto in 2019). All smoke & mirrors.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:31 am

konkret wrote:
By what measure is Helsinki more important economically than Berlin, Stuttgart or Turin?

Yes Turin is served longhaul by MXP as the runway would not be able to take a 777. Having said that, the Italian Govt. last year classified TRN as a metropolitan area in decline economically... even TK pulled out with an A320 last year.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:05 am

Sounds like a great route for the NEO :P
@DadCelo
 
pabloeing
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:22 am

SCQ83 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
While I tend to agree with you in theory, the reality is that 1 million of the total of OPO's 12 million pax per year are "gallegos". It could be that the vast majority of that million prefer to fly nonstop to european cities from OPO rather than connecting via Madrid. Ryanair's fares can also play a part..


That is why I said "OPO is heavily used by people from Southern Galicia (specially Vigo)".

I haven't denied that many people in Galicia use OPO. That is far from being "the reference airport for Galicia" as some posters say.

But that is mostly people from the province of Pontevedra (so we are talking about 900k people of 2.7M in Galicia; or 1/3) and as you say mostly for Ryanair or Wizzair flights to Manchester or Warsaw where those non-stop fares are unbeatable. For long-haul however OPO does not offer any particular advantage (specially from people from outside Pontevedra) compared to connecting via MAD (flying from one Galician airport) or just taking the train to Madrid. Let's say you want to fly to Buenos Aires or Mexico City (two cities with large colonies of Galicians). What is the advantage of OPO? They will rather fly you via MAD (OPO-MAD-EZE).

hondah35 wrote:
Does Porto really need a ME3 connection? Why does this feel like we're in one big air travel bubble that is going to pop with tremendous effect?


Indeed it seems we are in 2008 again. IMO OPO will be hit massively when there is a downturn. Traffic in OPO in the last ten years has grown from 4.5M (2008) to 12M (2018). It is one of those cities that (backed on the massive VFR traffic) has became "trendy" as a city break or as a larger part of a tour in Spain / Portugal. AirBNB, tourism and real estate bubble (you would be shocked at property prices in Porto in 2019). All smoke & mirrors.

The fares to Argentina ,per example....are cheaper from OPO like VGO.....last year i made a OPO-MAD-EZE with UX with 450€.....from VGO the same flight is 850€
 
garcan
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:23 am

SCQ83 wrote:
For long-haul however OPO does not offer any particular advantage (specially from people from outside Pontevedra) compared to connecting via MAD (flying from one Galician airport) or just taking the train to Madrid.


I agree. Even more, MAD and BCN are both connected to the three Galician airports. Both of them receive flights not only from EK, but also from QR and EY several times a day.

hondah35 wrote:
Does Porto really need a ME3 connection?


Will OPO even be able to support EK with acceptable yields during the winter, even if it's only four weekly?
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:39 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Indeed it seems we are in 2008 again. IMO OPO will be hit massively when there is a downturn. Traffic in OPO in the last ten years has grown from 4.5M (2008) to 12M (2018). It is one of those cities that (backed on the massive VFR traffic) has became "trendy" as a city break or as a larger part of a tour in Spain / Portugal.


This perception of a "bubble" is also connected to the plane chosen by EK to fly this route: No less than a 777-300ER! IMHO this is one of the biggest flaws in EK's business model, a lack of smaller planes than can start service to a new market and grow and develop it until it's ready for something bigger. I have no doubt that no matter what, OPO will always have "some" passengers for EK, the question is how many. Hopefully this pitfall will be overcome with the new Airbus 330s just ordered.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:39 pm

pabloeing wrote:
The fares to Argentina ,per example....are cheaper from OPO like VGO.....last year i made a OPO-MAD-EZE with UX with 450€.....from VGO the same flight is 850€


An example doesn't make a trend. However if UX has to discount so heavily OPO VS VGO, there is a problem with the OPO market (too much offer). Which comes back to my previous point; that market is a massive bubble waiting to explode.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:58 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I wonder why EK is launching Porto instead of Helsinki, the last city in Europe that’s very economically important not yet launched by EK!? (Flydubai doesn’t count)


Helsinki is so tiny, even the entire metro area is small in population. Additionally its so well over served with service to Asia because of connections. I think them not flying there makes alot of sense.

HEL is indeed well covered with Asian flights but apparently, it doesn't stop Qatar Airways as they fly to HEL 14x weekly with A330s (note that they started the route in October 2016). Moreover, according to Lentoposti (in Finnish), flydubai is pleased with the PLF on Helsinki–flights. Additionally, Emirates' Thierry Aucoc said in October 2018 in Helsinki that they "at this point start this way" meaning that they might add capacity in the future with EK's wide-body aircraft.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:27 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I wonder why EK is launching Porto instead of Helsinki, the last city in Europe that’s very economically important not yet launched by EK!? (Flydubai doesn’t count)


Helsinki is so tiny, even the entire metro area is small in population. Additionally its so well over served with service to Asia because of connections. I think them not flying there makes alot of sense.

HEL is indeed well covered with Asian flights but apparently, it doesn't stop Qatar Airways as they fly to HEL 14x weekly with A330s (note that they started the route in October 2016). Moreover, according to Lentoposti (in Finnish), flydubai is pleased with the PLF on Helsinki–flights. Additionally, Emirates' Thierry Aucoc said in October 2018 in Helsinki that they "at this point start this way" meaning that they might add capacity in the future with EK's wide-body aircraft.


I imagine what makes OPO attractive is the different mix that can provide to EK's network.

HEL would be mostly Thailand, SE Asia and that stuff. EK has no issue filling seats to BKK or DPS. It is all about price and competition.

But I mentioned previously LAD (Luanda). There is a huge Portuguese diaspora in Angola (TAAG flying LAD-OPO non-stop is a good reminder). With the recent economic crisis in Angola, EK has probably a harder time filling those seats to LAD (since Angola is not a tourism destination). So OPO provides feed to routes that otherwise are harder to fill and complement your typical wealthy central/north European city more focused on leisure.

If EK ever opens MPM (Maputo), having LIS and OPO will help them a lot. QR already flies to MPM so I wouldn't be surprised it is on EK's radar.
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 42
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:26 pm

If LIS can support 2x daily 777 flights why shouldn’t OPO be able to cope with 4x weekly flights? Besides, I believe OPO will continue to benefit from LIS capacity limitations.

For sure that EK has taken in consideration the considerable catchment area (North Portugal + Galicia) and the lack of flight offering to the Eastern Hemisphere - e.g tapping into the almost LH group monopoly (daily frequencies to FRA, MUC, BRU and ZRH) and increasing AF/KLM and TK offering.
 
evanb
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Re: Emirates launching to Porto

Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:36 pm

Keep in mind that EK already have a strong sales and distribution network in Portugal and have been codesharing on TP's flights to OPO for years. They already have an established client base to tap into. If anything, this will cannibalize DXB-LIS a little allowing more capacity for other connecting options or O&D.

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