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dcajet
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:01 pm

Interesting. Perhaps someone else on here can throw some light on the intricacies of Eastern's South American scheduling. All I can add is that Eastern was a bit of a train wreck by the time they disembarked there (1983) and it showed. Not many tears were shed when they left in 1990.
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DL_Mech
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:12 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
10 went to Delta if i recall...


N302EA (N301EA while in Flight Test)
N305EA (Flew in BEA colors for Farnborough '72)
N308EA
N317EA
N331EA
N332EA
N333EA
N334EA (EA 855 Aircraft)
N335EA
N336EA

Delta got 10 L-1011 A/C, spare engines and a simulator from Eastern. About $6 million for each L-1011.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1991-07-14-9101260071-story.html
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:28 pm

enilria wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
enilria wrote:
They had already sold the MIA hub to AA if memory serves.


EA didn't sell the MIA hub to AA; they just sold them the South American route system that they served from there, previously owned by BN and operated from DFW. EA moved it to MIA when they took it over in 1982.

De facto they sold it to them because that is where the route authorities were 90% operated from, plus without the Southern network the non-hub North America feed routes obviously followed making the hub essentially sold.


You’re missing the point; EA already had a large connecting hub in MIA prior to the acquisition of the South America system from BN in 1982. So EA didn’t sell the MIA hub, they just sold the South America routes.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:30 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
10 went to Delta if i recall...


N302EA (N301EA while in Flight Test)
N305EA (Flew in BEA colors for Farnborough '72)
N308EA
N317EA
N331EA
N332EA
N333EA
N334EA (EA 855 Aircraft)
N335EA
N336EA

Delta got 10 L-1011 A/C, spare engines and a simulator from Eastern. About $6 million for each L-1011.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1991-07-14-9101260071-story.html



The street value of one particular L1011 was far higher though, as DL mechanics found a stash of cocaine in an avionics bay when inspecting it after acquiring it from EA.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
harleydriver
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:36 am

northstardc4m wrote:
pwm2txlhopper wrote:
I remember Bar Harbor flying under Eastern colors to PWM with ATR-42 and Beech 1900's. I think to BOS, but it could have been LGA or both, too.


Bar Harbor fed EA at BOS, JFK, EWR and LGA. They flew ATR42s, Saab 340s, B1900Cs, B99s in EAX colors. PBA, Precision Airlines, Southern Jersey and Britt also flew Eastern Express in the North East at various times. BH eventually merged PBA, Precision dropped EA to go with Northwest, Southern Jersey went under.


I was working for Bar Harbor Airlines during the EA and then CO express flying. I remember the SAABs and ATR's were around for both EA and CO flying, I believe the B99's, C99's and B1900's went to Florida before everything changed to CO flying. I loved the look of all the aircraft in EA Express colors. I wasn't with Bar Harbor when they merged with PBA and then all went Britt. I worked the ramp at Bangor, what a great job when your fellow high school buddies are flipping burgers at a fast food restaurant or pumping gas. To this day I'm still friends with ex-coworkers 30 years ago.


https://www.airliners.net/photo/Eastern ... %2BwGJ7DVH
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TWA1985
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:18 pm

Mods, please delete. I can’t seem to get my photos to show up. :(
Be Young. Be Wild. Be Free.
 
TWA1985
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:41 pm

Some of you might find this interesting ... it’s an Eastern flight attendant bid sheet for the ORD base dated June 1985. The base was already very small then, but it’s still pretty fascinating to read througSome of you might find this interesting ... it’s an Eastern flight attendant bid sheet for the ORD base dated June 1985. The base was already very small then, but it’s still pretty fascinating to read through.

Sorry for the watermark, but if you click on the image you can view it without it.

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Be Young. Be Wild. Be Free.
 
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enilria
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:52 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
enilria wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

EA didn't sell the MIA hub to AA; they just sold them the South American route system that they served from there, previously owned by BN and operated from DFW. EA moved it to MIA when they took it over in 1982.

De facto they sold it to them because that is where the route authorities were 90% operated from, plus without the Southern network the non-hub North America feed routes obviously followed making the hub essentially sold.


You’re missing the point; EA already had a large connecting hub in MIA prior to the acquisition of the South America system from BN in 1982. So EA didn’t sell the MIA hub, they just sold the South America routes.

But a hub in this era requires routes going in more than just North. That might have worked in the 80s, but by the 90s losing the Southern network made a hub untenable and that’s exactly what happened. So yes technically they didn’t sell the hub, they sold all the blood in its veins which became the same thing.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:20 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
Some of you might find this interesting ... it’s an Eastern flight attendant bid sheet for the ORD base dated June 1985. The base was already very small then, but it’s still pretty fascinating to read through


Thanks for that, it was pretty cool to see. Definitely something unusual. Glad they were showing Beverly Hills Cop, now that's one excellent film :)
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
N649DL
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:32 pm

This recently just came out and really goes in-depth of what happened to Eastern in the 1980s. It's really well done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpg95rJ ... njRnKZxwNY

Essentially, EA had a BIG downfall post 1985. They had a ton of debt by purchasing new places and had greedy labor unions that would sell anyone down the river for a buck. That greed essentially led to the Texas Air buyout which Lorenzo was real tough on and started transferring assets internally from EA to CO. This included "System One" reservation system, OnePass FFP program, and some A300s. Then they sold the Shuttle to Trump which spelled doomsday for EA, plus the strike in 1989. By 1990-1991, there was no going back as they had a bad (fake) safety reputation and the start of the Gulf War.
 
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AirAfreak
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:52 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
September11 wrote:
quickmover wrote:

So I see that TWA took several of the dc9-50s. Does anyone know if they were for expansion or were they replacing other aircraft?


TWA were trying to build Atlanta into a hub... Can you imagine that?


Yes TWA had flights from 1992 to maybe about 1995 up and down the east coast with 3 or 4 banks. Started out just with MCO, FLL, TPA, DTW, LGA, DCA, and BOS in addition to JFK and STL hubs but grew it to about 50-60 flights a day eventually adding MIA, MSY, MDW, PHL, CMH and other points IIRC.


I nearly forgot about my JFK-DCA flight (operated by a TWA MD-80) in February of 1995; thanks for the reminder! Suddenly, I recall the IAD-CDG service, too!
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
Transpac787
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:22 pm

September11 wrote:
gr8slvrflt wrote:
Two A300s were fitted with about fifty First Class seats towards the very end.


All A300s, 48 seats, I thought

No kidding?? Do you know what the seating configurations were, for the rest of the fleet??

afcjets wrote:
September11 wrote:

I think Eastern's 72Ss from PSA were all coach seats. Those aircraft were used on DC-NY-Boston shuttle routes. In October of 1989, I flew from ATL to MCO on one of ex-PSA 72S.


I thought Piedmont got all their 727-200s.


Piedmont bought 5 727-200/Adv's from PSA, plus a single 727-200/Adv from Western. These 6 planes made up the 727 subfleet Piedmont used for their initial West Coast flights, prior to the arrival of the 737-300.

Eastern bought several 727-200 (non-Adv) from PSA.
 
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September11
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:11 am

[/quote]

All A300s, 48 seats, I thought[/quote]
No kidding?? Do you know what the seating configurations were, for the rest of the fleet??

[/quote]

L10: 56 F seats
AB3: 48 F seats
757: 32 F seats
72S: 24 F seats
D95: 24 F seats
D9S: 24 F seats
Airliners.net of the Future
 
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September11
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:33 am

TWA1985 wrote:
Some of you might find this interesting ... it’s an Eastern flight attendant bid sheet for the ORD base dated June 1985. The base was already very small then, but it’s still pretty fascinating to read througSome of you might find this interesting ... it’s an Eastern flight attendant bid sheet for the ORD base dated June 1985. The base was already very small then, but it’s still pretty fascinating to read through.


Thanks for sharing. I had one for the ATL base dated January 1991. A family friend of mine was a veteran Eastern flight attendant.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
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BroadwayLimited
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:11 pm

Question I have always had about the shutdown.

The day of the shutdown, I was in Chickasha, Oklahoma on business. That night, I flew back to Atlanta from Oklahoma City, on Delta. When I got back to Atlanta that night, it was so sad to see, all of those Eastern planes just sitting/parked everywhere. Probably a great percentage of the fleet was sitting just anywhere they could find a place to park them.

The question I have had all these years. With Eastern shut down, and all those planes parked at the Atlanta airport, WHO flew those planes out of the airport to wherever??? Did the Eastern Pilots come back one final time to fly them out or did an outside contractor/company fly them out? Always was curious how that happened.

Anybody remember?
Signed up for Delta and Eastern Frequent Flyer Programs August 30, 1981.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:14 pm

They were sold to various airlines or operators whose crews flew them after inspections. DL and CX took the L1011s, the FAA took a B757, CO took some planes, heck, Kiwi flew some. Those buyers flew them out. Large diaspora of EA pilots around, much like Ansett strikers from the year of 1989.

GF
 
RetiredAAL
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:37 pm

I worked for Eastern in PHL until Mar 1989. It was a busy mini hub until the end (Concourse "C" I think. I remember seeing some of our A300's painted up in Continental Colors arriving at Continental gates we shared with them. Lorenzo was already transferring over the better assets to Continental a couple years before the end.
 
nikeherc
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:40 pm

I was living in Atlanta in 1980 just before the midfield terminal opened. One of my coworkers was married to a Delta PR executive. I remember that DL and EA held a coin toss for gate space. EA won and got A and half of B. DL got the other half of B and all of C. International flights were out of T. There was a press conference going on in B when a DL L10 was taxied up to the terminal. Quite a coup over EA staged by my friend’s husband.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:23 am

BroadwayLimited wrote:
Question I have always had about the shutdown.

The day of the shutdown, I was in Chickasha, Oklahoma on business. That night, I flew back to Atlanta from Oklahoma City, on Delta. When I got back to Atlanta that night, it was so sad to see, all of those Eastern planes just sitting/parked everywhere. Probably a great percentage of the fleet was sitting just anywhere they could find a place to park them.

The question I have had all these years. With Eastern shut down, and all those planes parked at the Atlanta airport, WHO flew those planes out of the airport to wherever??? Did the Eastern Pilots come back one final time to fly them out or did an outside contractor/company fly them out? Always was curious how that happened.

Anybody remember?
There were also a small group of ea management pilots that ferried planes after the shut down for the bankruptcy court motions for asset protection. Mostly they ferried aircraft to ATL or MIA in the week after the shutdown.

Later some ex eastern pilots were hired by Banks and lessors to ferry aircraft to storage but these were no longer ea employees though they were hired as agents of the eastern trustees with their ea records.

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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
n2dru
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:26 am

nikeherc wrote:
I was living in Atlanta in 1980 just before the midfield terminal opened. One of my coworkers was married to a Delta PR executive. I remember that DL and EA held a coin toss for gate space. EA won and got A and half of B. DL got the other half of B and all of C. International flights were out of T. There was a press conference going on in B when a DL L10 was taxied up to the terminal. Quite a coup over EA staged by my friend’s husband.


Actually it was the other way around...Delta had all of A and half and B and Eastern all of C and the other half of B. Complete with the shortcut from B north to C.
 
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klm617
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:30 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
See planespotters.net for fleet disposition.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/E ... storic&p=3


This also is a pretty good fleet reference website too.

http://www.oocities.org/~aeromoe/fleets/airlines.html
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
afcjets
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:47 pm

afcjets wrote:
I thought Piedmont got all their 727-200s.


[quote=“Transpac787”]Piedmont bought 5 727-200/Adv's from PSA, plus a single 727-200/Adv from Western. These 6 planes made up the 727 subfleet Piedmont used for their initial West Coast flights, prior to the arrival of the 737-300.

Eastern bought several 727-200 (non-Adv) from PSA.[/quote]

Piedmont bought more than 5 non-Adv 727-200s from PSA in the early 1980s. I remember seeing PSA on the window shade pull down of one on PI flight 50 CLT-EWR on 7/1/82. West coast flights started in 1984 (LAX on 4/1 and SFO on 11/1) with the Adv but I believe for the first couple of weeks the flight from CLT made fuel stops in PHX (which was not yet a Piedmont destination). Why did PSA need the long range 727s fior intra-California and west coast anyways?
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:54 pm

afcjets wrote:

[quote=“Transpac787”]

afcjets wrote:
I thought Piedmont got all their 727-200s.


Piedmont bought 5 727-200/Adv's from PSA, plus a single 727-200/Adv from Western. These 6 planes made up the 727 subfleet Piedmont used for their initial West Coast flights, prior to the arrival of the 737-300.

Eastern bought several 727-200 (non-Adv) from PSA.


Piedmont bought more than 5 non-Adv 727-200s from PSA in the early 1980s. I remember seeing PSA on the window shade pull down of one on PI flight 50 CLT-EWR on 7/1/82. West coast flights started in 1984 (LAX on 4/1 and SFO on 11/1) with the Adv but I believe for the first couple of weeks the flight from CLT made fuel stops in PHX (which was not yet a Piedmont destination). Why did PSA need the long range 727s fior intra-California and west coast anyways?[/quote]

Just so everyone is clear:

PSA to Piedmont

non-Advanced 727-214s, 7, transferred 1981-82, N535PS, N537PS, N538PS, N539PS, N540PS, N541PS, N546PS. re-registered N855N through N861N in different order late 1982. Then N718US-N723US in 1988

727-214 Advanced, 5, transferred 1984, N555PS, N556PS, N557PS, N558PS, N559PS, reregistered N750US to N754US same order 1988.

From Western, 1 727-247 Advanced: N2828W, 1984, to N649US 1988

From Frontier order direct from Boeing, 2 727-291 non-Advanced, N1649, N1647, 1983 to N716US, N717US 1988

Direct from Boeing 727-295 non-advanced, N1639-N1646, N1648, 1982 to 1983, to N701US-N715US with gaps, 1988
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
afcjets
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:50 am

northstardc4m wrote:

Just so everyone is clear:

PSA to Piedmont

non-Advanced 727-214s, 7, transferred 1981-82, N535PS, N537PS, N538PS, N539PS, N540PS, N541PS, N546PS. re-registered N855N through N861N in different order late 1982. Then N718US-N723US in 1988

727-214 Advanced, 5, transferred 1984, N555PS, N556PS, N557PS, N558PS, N559PS, reregistered N750US to N754US same order 1988.

From Western, 1 727-247 Advanced: N2828W, 1984, to N649US 1988

From Frontier order direct from Boeing, 2 727-291 non-Advanced, N1649, N1647, 1983 to N716US, N717US 1988

Direct from Boeing 727-295 non-advanced, N1639-N1646, N1648, 1982 to 1983, to N701US-N715US with gaps, 1988


I get the PSA ones. Are you saying Piedmont got another 727-200 Advance from Western in 1988? N649US was the registration number US assigned a PI 767 delivered in late December 1987. I didn’t think PI got any 727s as late as 1988, are you saying they got former Frontier 727s and brand new ones from Boeing that year too? Piedmont started getting a lot of brand new 733s in 1985 and they were the launch customer for the 734 in late 1988 and got brand new 767s starting in 1987, what would they need more 727s for?
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:06 am

They all got reregistered in 1988.

649 should be 749

The first year in each line is the original delivery to Piedmont.

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BN747
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:39 am

Another take on the other side of Eastern, they're computer system, System One, came out of nowhere was head and shoulders above AA (Sabre), United (Apollo), DL (Datas II I think) and TWA (Pars). It tapped into live cabin seat inventory of many carriers. Had they used that in very clever manner as - AA did (when AA pulled the chair out from Braniff), Eastern could have taken out Delta big time if they had a 'Crandall mentality'.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:47 pm

n2dru wrote:
nikeherc wrote:
I was living in Atlanta in 1980 just before the midfield terminal opened. One of my coworkers was married to a Delta PR executive. I remember that DL and EA held a coin toss for gate space. EA won and got A and half of B. DL got the other half of B and all of C. International flights were out of T. There was a press conference going on in B when a DL L10 was taxied up to the terminal. Quite a coup over EA staged by my friend’s husband.


Actually it was the other way around...Delta had all of A and half and B and Eastern all of C and the other half of B. Complete with the shortcut from B north to C.


At the risk of going a little OT, anyone who wants to learn more about the history of ATL, from the early 1920s to the completion of the midfield terminal in 1980, should buy a copy of "A Dream Takes Flight", by Betsy Braden.

A Dream Takes Flight discusses in detail the design process for the midfield terminal. Few people realize that one of the rejected plans for the midfield terminal called for a public road where the subway is now, with the north and south halves of each concourse separated by a parking deck so people originating / terminating in ATL could park just a few feet from their gates. A Dream Takes Flight has architects' diagrams of several of the rejected plans for the midfield terminal, and describes how the airlines, the airport, and the architects agreed on the design that was ultimately built.

This book is long out of print, but used copies are readily available on Alibris and Amazon at relatively low prices. You won't regret buying it!
 
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william
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Re: Questions about the final year of Eastern

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:23 pm

N649DL wrote:
This recently just came out and really goes in-depth of what happened to Eastern in the 1980s. It's really well done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpg95rJ ... njRnKZxwNY

Essentially, EA had a BIG downfall post 1985. They had a ton of debt by purchasing new places and had greedy labor unions that would sell anyone down the river for a buck. That greed essentially led to the Texas Air buyout which Lorenzo was real tough on and started transferring assets internally from EA to CO. This included "System One" reservation system, OnePass FFP program, and some A300s. Then they sold the Shuttle to Trump which spelled doomsday for EA, plus the strike in 1989. By 1990-1991, there was no going back as they had a bad (fake) safety reputation and the start of the Gulf War.


Yes, some of us were around when it happened, and remembered when the last EA plane was parked. It was not a pretty sight.

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