A380MSN004
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How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:47 pm

Hi everyone,

Does anyone knows how slots are assigned to a newcomer airline at JFK or EWR?

Let's say for an airline who is having a saisonnal 6 months (from April to September) daily flight between LGW to JFK or EWR?

What is taken under consideration? Is there a kind of seniority list or waiting list?

Does any specific criteria are taken under consideration?

Thanks for your feedbacks.
 
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janders
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:52 pm

EWR has no slots.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
drdisque
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:54 pm

JFK does have slots that they can give to new entrant foreign carriers. However, first they have to secure gate space at Terminal 1, 4, 5, or 7 that lines up with when they want to operate the flight and when the airport can make a slot available.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:00 pm

FAA basically follows IATA WSG coordination guidelines.
https://www.iata.org/policy/slots/Docum ... nglish.pdf

You can also find more from links in Federal Register
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... al-airport

And yes indeed no need for movement authorizations for EWR any longer.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
A380MSN004
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:05 pm

Thanks for your feedbacks.

But is there at EWR a peak time that restrict a newcomer airline to operate?

For instance, the last comers at EWR such as XL Airways operate at times that are not the best :

CDG EWR 20h25 - 22h35 LOC
EWR CDG 23h59 - 13h10 LOC

When is would be better for them to operate on such schedule :

MIN
CDG 15h30 - 17h45 EWR
EWR 19h45 - 9h00 CDG

MAX
CDG 18h30 - 20h45 EWR
EWR 22h45 - 12h00 CDG

Is there a lack of availabilities at the gates? Or counters?

Thanks for your feedbacks.
 
drdisque
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:13 pm

Yes, it's lack of available FIS gates at EWR Terminal B at peak hours that causes the poor timings from the XL Airways flight.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:31 pm

Access to facilities indeed can create its own significant restrictions which are separate from movement slots which are more geared around runway capacity/ATC limitations.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N292UX
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:51 am

EWR has no slots. Besides JFK, LGA and DCA also have slots in the US.
 
LetsGoOutside
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:42 am

To 380MSN004: I will be a little bit of topic but personally I love the XL schedule out of EWR. To Paris, I can finish my workday in NY and I don't have to rush like crazy to JFK or EWR with the fear of missing my flight if traffic is at a standstill or if the lines are extra long at check-in and through security. And when I get to Paris, my hotel room is ready when I arrive (with a 9 am arrival, it's often 2 hours - and sometimes much more - sitting the lobby before you get your keys). In the other direction, same deal: I can leave Paris after work and I save one hotel night vs. leaving the next morning. I also arrive one day earlier in NY compared with a flight leaving the next morning (particularly appreciated when I return home on a Friday night...). Even with an 18:30 departure from Paris, you have to leave town around 3 pm and often this is too early for me and my colleagues...
 
A380MSN004
Topic Author
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:53 pm

drdisque wrote:
Yes, it's lack of available FIS gates at EWR Terminal B at peak hours that causes the poor timings from the XL Airways flight.


Ok thanks. So peak hours tends to be 17h00 20h00 LOC @ EWR right?

Is there another peak hours during the morning?

Many thanks.
 
HIA350
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:01 pm

janders wrote:
EWR has no slots.

agree and disagree
they do have for instance spirit was given slot to flight SDQ a few months ago, departure time is the key, 1:30 am who will their right mind will flight F9 at this time to SDQ, i heard they will be starting STI around the same time, jet blue does it from JFK
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:57 pm

EWR is a level 2 coordinated airport, as opposed to level 3 airports (such as JFK), which are slot controlled.

A Level 2 airport is one where there is potential for congestion during some periods of the day, week or season, which can be resolved by schedule adjustments mutually agreed between the airlines and facilitator.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
sagechan
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:20 pm

Slots should be expanded and monetized by the FAA. 10 year leases (with subletting rights to the airlines) bid at auction. Initial phase-in would be 10% of airlines slot holdings as of a particular schedule date with 10% to follow each year, setting up a system where after 10 years all slots are valued and a new auction occurs every year to allow new entrants. Also do the same at gate restrained airports.
717, 733, 734, 738, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA
 
Planeboy17
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:19 pm

HIA350 wrote:
janders wrote:
EWR has no slots.

agree and disagree
they do have for instance spirit was given slot to flight SDQ a few months ago, departure time is the key, 1:30 am who will their right mind will flight F9 at this time to SDQ, i heard they will be starting STI around the same time, jet blue does it from JFK

B6 does both SDQ and STI from EWR.
 
flyby519
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:41 pm

Any guesses when JFK will remove slot controls like they did with EWR? I was thinking late 2019
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:45 pm

When runway 31R is rebuilt this summer.

After completion with new high speed turnoffs and 380 capability, all four runways will have been rebuilt and slots are supposed to go away
 
MIflyer12
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:50 pm

sagechan wrote:
Slots should be expanded and monetized by the FAA. 10 year leases (with subletting rights to the airlines) bid at auction. Initial phase-in would be 10% of airlines slot holdings as of a particular schedule date with 10% to follow each year, setting up a system where after 10 years all slots are valued and a new auction occurs every year to allow new entrants. Also do the same at gate restrained airports.


A little OT, but it's rare to see a proposal that takes existing property rights from carriers appear in this forum.

I'd go for 3-year leases, with a fly-it-or-return-it provision. Departures in 1-hr blocks. No subleasing. No squatting. It's economically efficient - carriers seeing higher demand would be willing to bid higher, making better use of (at busy airports) scarce resources. Lots of leases would be sold for $1. Fly to Bangor and Fargo any time you want. Please.
 
leader1
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:01 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
EWR is a level 2 coordinated airport, as opposed to level 3 airports (such as JFK), which are slot controlled.

A Level 2 airport is one where there is potential for congestion during some periods of the day, week or season, which can be resolved by schedule adjustments mutually agreed between the airlines and facilitator.


Correct. In other words, the FAA monitors traffic levels there to make sure they don't get out of control. When EWR was a level 3 airport, it averaged around 71 movements an hour, which is lower than the 81 movements/hour it was capped at. From what I've heard, the FAA is not going to allow EWR to handle more than around 77 movements an hour. Even so, it's still the most delay-plagued airport in the country. It should be slot-controlled ahead of JFK.

sagechan wrote:
Slots should be expanded and monetized by the FAA. 10 year leases (with subletting rights to the airlines) bid at auction. Initial phase-in would be 10% of airlines slot holdings as of a particular schedule date with 10% to follow each year, setting up a system where after 10 years all slots are valued and a new auction occurs every year to allow new entrants. Also do the same at gate restrained airports.


This is an absolutely terrible idea. You'd be infringing on property rights here and the airlines monetize their slot holdings and consider them to be assets. Not to mention that there would be no benefit to any of the parties involved, save the FAA, who would use this as a revenue generating venture. And they're not allowed to raise additional money without Congressional approval, which was not given to them. Furthermore, this was attempted by the FAA under Bush about ten years ago and the airlines and the Port Authority (who also thought it was a dumb idea) sued against this and won. It's been deemed illegal. The system in place, while not perfect, works fine. Other than China, which saw this as a revenue raising measure, no other country has even attempted to go down this route. And even in China, it was used to allocate additional - not existing - capacity.

MIflyer12 wrote:
I'd go for 3-year leases, with a fly-it-or-return-it provision. Departures in 1-hr blocks. No subleasing. No squatting. It's economically efficient - carriers seeing higher demand would be willing to bid higher, making better use of (at busy airports) scarce resources. Lots of leases would be sold for $1. Fly to Bangor and Fargo any time you want. Please.


Ten-year leases are bad...three years is even worse!

jfklganyc wrote:
When runway 31R is rebuilt this summer.

After completion with new high speed turnoffs and 380 capability, all four runways will have been rebuilt and slots are supposed to go away


A380s can still land on that runway, but on the other side - 13L. It's more the radar equipment around the end of 31R which prevents A380s from landing there because its wings would hit it. From what I've heard, that's not going to be relocated and the A380 still wouldn't be able to land there, even with the widening.
Leader-1
 
HIA350
Posts: 67
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:38 am

Planeboy17 wrote:
HIA350 wrote:
janders wrote:
EWR has no slots.

agree and disagree
they do have for instance spirit was given slot to flight SDQ a few months ago, departure time is the key, 1:30 am who will their right mind will flight F9 at this time to SDQ, i heard they will be starting STI around the same time, jet blue does it from JFK

B6 does both SDQ and STI from EWR.

indeed DR is my home country i ravel often
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:05 am

I have heard the opposite. But we shall see what happens
 
Caribbean007
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Thu May 09, 2019 4:38 pm

HIA350 wrote:
janders wrote:
EWR has no slots.

agree and disagree
they do have for instance spirit was given slot to flight SDQ a few months ago, departure time is the key, 1:30 am who will their right mind will flight F9 at this time to SDQ, i heard they will be starting STI around the same time, jet blue does it from JFK


Spirit is having very good load factor, The way they do this route is combinated with MCO, the Aircraf fly EWR-SDQ-MCO and another one fly MCO-SDQ-EWR. This route was served only for United with 1 daily flight with hight prices, now 4 flights and 3 airlines, the statics of pax transported jumped from 11,975 in January 2018 to 36,200 in January 2019.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri May 10, 2019 8:40 am

Why are slots not a big thing in the USA? Shouldnt major airports like LAX, ATL, ORD be slot controlled like LHR famously is?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri May 10, 2019 11:32 am

USA has land

ATL and ORD keep building runways

No need for slots

LAX may one day by slot restricted. But they have good wx and a good runway layout...so at current levels it works


The likey next airports to get slots in the US are EWR (reinstated; already a warning about that), SFO (bad rwy layout, bad weather) and BOS (bad rwy layout; huge spike in traffic)


In general, the US has a different economic mentality.

They really dont like to restrict things and like capitalism to run its course
 
wexfordflyer
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Re: How slots are assigned at JFK or EWR

Fri May 10, 2019 12:14 pm

Sorry for the stupid question, but if an airport doesn't have slots, what's the process for allocating timings to flights? Just scheduled by the airport based on timetables, gate availability?
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