dcajet
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FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:14 pm

The FAA has issued an advisory for aircraft entering Venezuela's airspace under 26,000 ft due to the hazards associated with the political situation there. Flights that usually overfly Venezuelan airspace are being rerouted. Some of the affected routes are those from Argentina and Brazil to the East Coast and the Caribbean.

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dcajet
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:48 pm

I'm surprised that in light of the above, AA is operating its CCS flights today, all things considered:

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SuseJ772
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:11 pm

Does Venezuela have SAMs? Do they have rogue fighter jets? Usually these are issued in areas and regions where you worried about one or the other no?
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747Whale
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:16 pm

Venezuela operates the F-16 and SU-16 as tactical interceptors.

Man-portable and other surface to air defense assets? Yes.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:18 pm

Venezuela's ex president Maduro just closed the air space for all but official flights. Maybe he doesn't want other planes in the air when he runs off to Cuba?

http://www.el-nacional.com/noticias/soc ... les_272044
 
MalevTU134
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:20 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
Does Venezuela have SAMs? Do they have rogue fighter jets? Usually these are issued in areas and regions where you worried about one or the other no?

None of that is a real risk in Venezuela. The problem is another. In fact, it is remarkable that no rogue fighter pilots have defected.
 
dcajet
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:38 pm

Timely decision by Air France to suspend flights to Venezuela this week.
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ual763
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:44 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Venezuela's ex president Maduro just closed the air space for all but official flights. Maybe he doesn't want other planes in the air when he runs off to Cuba?

http://www.el-nacional.com/noticias/soc ... les_272044


American Airlines probably isn't too happy now that they have a 757 sitting on the ramp at CCS.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
ual763
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:46 pm

ual763 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Venezuela's ex president Maduro just closed the air space for all but official flights. Maybe he doesn't want other planes in the air when he runs off to Cuba?

http://www.el-nacional.com/noticias/soc ... les_272044


American Airlines probably isn't too happy now that they have a 757 sitting on the ramp at CCS.


Disregard, it just took off. So airspace must not be closed after all???
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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Spacepope
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:20 pm

747Whale wrote:
Venezuela operates the F-16 and SU-16 as tactical interceptors.

Man-portable and other surface to air defense assets? Yes.


There is no such thing as an SU-16 in operation anywhere as a fighter.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:25 pm

ual763 wrote:
Disregard, it just took off. So airspace must not be closed after all???


I guess the airspace closure only affects overflying flights. Any flight to or from Venezuela would of course have access to it's airspace.
 
Boston757
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:12 pm

AA #968 CCS-MIA was scheduled to leave at 1421 but departed at 1426. Its in the air and about an hour and half out from MIA. However, yesterday it took us
25--30 minutes to get clearance to depart out of CCS on #968. Its been fairly routine in and out of CCS,but the loads are fairly full ,just a few open seats on the 757 ,more so now than the beginning
of the month.
Last edited by Boston757 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aesma
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:43 pm

Either the US is planning a military intervention soon, or this is just bullying by the US, and hurts the FAA's credibility.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
smartplane
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:53 pm

Insurers will re-price risk for the duration of the advisory. Presumably most airlines will cease flights to and over.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:05 pm

Aesma wrote:
Either the US is planning a military intervention soon, or this is just bullying by the US, and hurts the FAA's credibility.

Oh give me a break. The country is on the edge of civil war. This has nothing to do with an intervention.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
MalevTU134
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:08 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Either the US is planning a military intervention soon, or this is just bullying by the US, and hurts the FAA's credibility.

Oh give me a break. The country is on the edge of civil war. This has nothing to do with an intervention.

Agree it has nothing to do with an intervention. That will not happen. But neither will a civil war. The Venezuelan people have neither the brains nor the balls for that. That is the sad truth.

It is simply the FAA being (overly?) cautious.
 
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Aesma
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:17 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Either the US is planning a military intervention soon, or this is just bullying by the US, and hurts the FAA's credibility.

Oh give me a break. The country is on the edge of civil war. This has nothing to do with an intervention.


There is no hint of any danger to aviation, the FAA does this on Trump's order, it's nothing rational.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Planeflyer
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:28 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Either the US is planning a military intervention soon, or this is just bullying by the US, and hurts the FAA's credibility.

Oh give me a break. The country is on the edge of civil war. This has nothing to do with an intervention.

Agree it has nothing to do with an intervention. That will not happen. But neither will a civil war. The Venezuelan people have neither the brains nor the balls for that. That is the sad truth.

It is simply the FAA being (overly?) cautious.


Well, over the past 20 years,there has been a brain drain out of Venezuela. The only educated people left in the country all graduated from Cuba or places like Berkeley.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:41 pm

Planeflyer wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Oh give me a break. The country is on the edge of civil war. This has nothing to do with an intervention.

Agree it has nothing to do with an intervention. That will not happen. But neither will a civil war. The Venezuelan people have neither the brains nor the balls for that. That is the sad truth.

It is simply the FAA being (overly?) cautious.


Well, over the past 20 years,there has been a brain drain out of Venezuela. The only educated people left in the country all graduated from Cuba or places like Berkeley.

This is off topic, but during almost 4 years of living in Venezuela, I haven't met anybody who graduated neither in Cuba (except Cuban doctors and nurses) nor "places like Berkeley". Most are from UCV, USB, ULA, UDO, UC...all Venezuelan universities.
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:42 pm

Aesma wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Either the US is planning a military intervention soon, or this is just bullying by the US, and hurts the FAA's credibility.

Oh give me a break. The country is on the edge of civil war. This has nothing to do with an intervention.


There is no hint of any danger to aviation, the FAA does this on Trump's order, it's nothing rational.


1. It's amazing to read this not even five years after MH17. The first hint of danger could be a civil aviation tragedy. You don't manage risk by waiting for an accident to occur. You anticipate and plan ahead.

2. While I believe the risk to commercial aviation is remote, the risks of overflying Venezuela are certainly not zero: we have rival claims to the head of state and the loyalty of the military forces are splintering. Is it inconceivable that one faction could use air defenses against an aircraft they believe is transporting rival members? I think the answer is no.

3. What if it is Trump's order? Is it not his responsibility to set policy that protects Americans abroad? Should Trump not be applying political pressure on the illegitimate Maduro regime?
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
Planeflyer
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:17 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Planeflyer wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Agree it has nothing to do with an intervention. That will not happen. But neither will a civil war. The Venezuelan people have neither the brains nor the balls for that. That is the sad truth.

It is simply the FAA being (overly?) cautious.


Well, over the past 20 years,there has been a brain drain out of Venezuela. The only educated people left in the country all graduated from Cuba or places like Berkeley.

This is off topic, but during almost 4 years of living in Venezuela, I haven't met anybody who graduated neither in Cuba (except Cuban doctors and nurses) nor "places like Berkeley". Most are from UCV, USB, ULA, UDO, UC...all Venezuelan universities.


The Berkeley part was a joke on the fact that the most strident supporters of Maduro and Chavez before him were all the Marxists who populate the non science departments at US Universities.

The the Cubans in Venezuela besides the doctors and nurses the rest of the Cubans in Venezuela reside in State security. I hope you don’t have reason to run into them.
 
dcajet
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:21 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
Aesma wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Oh give me a break. The country is on the edge of civil war. This has nothing to do with an intervention.


There is no hint of any danger to aviation, the FAA does this on Trump's order, it's nothing rational.


1. It's amazing to read this not even five years after MH17. The first hint of danger could be a civil aviation tragedy. You don't manage risk by waiting for an accident to occur. You anticipate and plan ahead.

2. While I believe the risk to commercial aviation is remote, the risks of overflying Venezuela are certainly not zero: we have rival claims to the head of state and the loyalty of the military forces are splintering. Is it inconceivable that one faction could use air defenses against an aircraft they believe is transporting rival members? I think the answer is no.

3. What if it is Trump's order? Is it not his responsibility to set policy that protects Americans abroad? Should Trump not be applying political pressure on the illegitimate Maduro regime?


:checkmark: Agree 100%. Venezuela's military has received tons of weapons from Russia since the times of Chavez, including S300 SAM that the regime is very proudly parading around. The Maduro gang is cornered and they know it. Just a matter of time till they fall, but until then, they are capable of anything.
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747Whale
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:26 pm

Spacepope wrote:
747Whale wrote:
Venezuela operates the F-16 and SU-16 as tactical interceptors.

Man-portable and other surface to air defense assets? Yes.


There is no such thing as an SU-16 in operation anywhere as a fighter.


SU-30.

The Venezuelans have more of the SU-30 than the F16.

There's really no such thing as capable F16's in Venezuela, either.

As for the FAA issuing warnings, these are typical of most areas of conflict, and are not unusual. There are NoTams regarding numerous other places around the world as well. It's not just the United States; these are common from a number of countries; we see them all the time during operations int eh middle east and Africa.

The USA isn't bullying Venezuela, nor Maduro. A sad dictator who has driven his nation into poverty, when it should be one of the wealthiest countries on the planet, he needs to go. Chavez needed to go before him. The vast majority of countries taking a stand on this are against Maduro, and in support of the Venezuelan people who very much want Maduro out.
 
travaz
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:26 am

AA still has seats on sale for both CCS flights out of MIA for Sunday 2/24.
 
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Aesma
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:31 am

747Whale wrote:
As for the FAA issuing warnings, these are typical of most areas of conflict, and are not unusual. There are NoTams regarding numerous other places around the world as well. It's not just the United States; these are common from a number of countries; we see them all the time during operations int eh middle east and Africa.


Well that's exactly the thing. There is no conflict in Venezuela. There is no "operation" either. Or maybe there is one in the works ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
anrec80
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:52 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Venezuela's ex president Maduro just closed the air space for all but official flights. Maybe he doesn't want other planes in the air when he runs off to Cuba?

http://www.el-nacional.com/noticias/soc ... les_272044


Had he said he's gonna run somewhere?
 
dcajet
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:53 am

Aesma wrote:
Well that's exactly the thing. There is no conflict in Venezuela. There is no "operation" either. Or maybe there is one in the works ?


I guess for you having over 5,500 Venezuelans leaving the country every day, people dying for lack of medical care or having two presidents is not a conflict. What would you call that then? Business as usual?

The best thing that could happen right now to Maduro and its band is to have an "operation"... they will use it as a scapegoat and victimize themselves, just as the US embargo has been used by Cuba, masking their colossal ineptitude and malice, a lethal combination.
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MalevTU134
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:05 am

dcajet wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Well that's exactly the thing. There is no conflict in Venezuela. There is no "operation" either. Or maybe there is one in the works ?


I guess for you having over 5,500 Venezuelans leaving the country every day, people dying for lack of medical care or having two presidents is not a conflict. What would you call that then? Business as usual?

The best thing that could happen right now to Maduro and its band is to have an "operation"... they will use it as a scapegoat and victimize themselves, just as the US embargo has been used by Cuba, masking their colossal ineptitude and malice, a lethal combination.

In fact, Aesma is right. There is no conflict in the sense of military conflict. No civil war. Nothing like Ukraine and MH17, that some other poster alluded to. It is more of a social unrest. The opposition is unarmed. There are no SAMs floating around amongst them.

As for 5,500 venezuelans leaving daily...yes, it is business as usual, unfortunately. That has been the case for years.

As tragic as it may be, 4 or 6 deaths (today's score, until now) is business as usual as well. Only, today's deaths are more publicized in the international press, due to it being international aid.

Caracas today was just as it has been for the last years. No better, but also no worse.
Last edited by MalevTU134 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
anrec80
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:09 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Venezuela's ex president Maduro just closed the air space for all but official flights.


And one more correction - since he can close the airspace, then he is not an ex-president. Ex-presidents don't close airspace. He's President so far, and hence can close the airspace of his country.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:10 am

747Whale wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
747Whale wrote:
Venezuela operates the F-16 and SU-16 as tactical interceptors.

Man-portable and other surface to air defense assets? Yes.


There is no such thing as an SU-16 in operation anywhere as a fighter.


SU-30.

The Venezuelans have more of the SU-30 than the F16.

There's really no such thing as capable F16's in Venezuela, either.

As for the FAA issuing warnings, these are typical of most areas of conflict, and are not unusual. There are NoTams regarding numerous other places around the world as well. It's not just the United States; these are common from a number of countries; we see them all the time during operations int eh middle east and Africa.

The USA isn't bullying Venezuela, nor Maduro. A sad dictator who has driven his nation into poverty, when it should be one of the wealthiest countries on the planet, he needs to go. Chavez needed to go before him. The vast majority of countries taking a stand on this are against Maduro, and in support of the Venezuelan people who very much want Maduro out.

There is a contested presidency with the military picking sides. This is the time to minimize risk.

There is fighting over food! No country with such potential should go bankrupt as Venezuela did. Corruption and a lack of rule of law doomed them. When has this not happened with such a government.


Lightsaber
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georgiabill
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 am

Politics aside hoping common sense arises and the government allows humanitarian aid. I am sadden by what is occurring in Venezuela. Hopefully one day it will be prosperous country once again
 
MalevTU134
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:15 am

lightsaber wrote:
747Whale wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

There is no such thing as an SU-16 in operation anywhere as a fighter.


SU-30.

The Venezuelans have more of the SU-30 than the F16.

There's really no such thing as capable F16's in Venezuela, either.

As for the FAA issuing warnings, these are typical of most areas of conflict, and are not unusual. There are NoTams regarding numerous other places around the world as well. It's not just the United States; these are common from a number of countries; we see them all the time during operations int eh middle east and Africa.

The USA isn't bullying Venezuela, nor Maduro. A sad dictator who has driven his nation into poverty, when it should be one of the wealthiest countries on the planet, he needs to go. Chavez needed to go before him. The vast majority of countries taking a stand on this are against Maduro, and in support of the Venezuelan people who very much want Maduro out.

There is a contested presidency with the military picking sides. This is the time to minimize risk.

There is fighting over food! No country with such potential should go bankrupt as Venezuela did. Corruption and a lack of rule of law doomed them. When has this not happened with such a government.


Lightsaber

But neither of the sides is on about shooting down airliners. Not even in their wildest dreams.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:18 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
747Whale wrote:

SU-30.

The Venezuelans have more of the SU-30 than the F16.

There's really no such thing as capable F16's in Venezuela, either.

As for the FAA issuing warnings, these are typical of most areas of conflict, and are not unusual. There are NoTams regarding numerous other places around the world as well. It's not just the United States; these are common from a number of countries; we see them all the time during operations int eh middle east and Africa.

The USA isn't bullying Venezuela, nor Maduro. A sad dictator who has driven his nation into poverty, when it should be one of the wealthiest countries on the planet, he needs to go. Chavez needed to go before him. The vast majority of countries taking a stand on this are against Maduro, and in support of the Venezuelan people who very much want Maduro out.

There is a contested presidency with the military picking sides. This is the time to minimize risk.

There is fighting over food! No country with such potential should go bankrupt as Venezuela did. Corruption and a lack of rule of law doomed them. When has this not happened with such a government.


Lightsaber

But neither of the sides is on about shooting down airliners. Not even in their wildest dreams.

Unfortunately, it happens. This is a country on the brink of civil war. Civil wars are the worst. There is no convention protecting anyone, it is rule by might.

Would you fly low over Venezuela today?

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:19 am

anrec80 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Venezuela's ex president Maduro just closed the air space for all but official flights.


And one more correction - since he can close the airspace, then he is not an ex-president. Ex-presidents don't close airspace. He's President so far, and hence can close the airspace of his country.

Oh, he is ex-president all right. There is no support in the Constitution for him to be president. Maybe we can agree on him being de-facto president, but with diminishing fields of power every day? The Air Force and Air Defences still obey him...today. Tomorrow may be another story.

These are interesting times indeed here in Venezuela.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: FAA issues advisory warning about overflying Venezuela's airspace

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:23 am

lightsaber wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
There is a contested presidency with the military picking sides. This is the time to minimize risk.

There is fighting over food! No country with such potential should go bankrupt as Venezuela did. Corruption and a lack of rule of law doomed them. When has this not happened with such a government.


Lightsaber

But neither of the sides is on about shooting down airliners. Not even in their wildest dreams.

Unfortunately, it happens. This is a country on the brink of civil war. Civil wars are the worst. There is no convention protecting anyone, it is rule by might.

Would you fly low over Venezuela today?

Lightsaber

No. That is a misconception. Venezuela is not on the brink of civil war. Nor will it be.

And yes, I flew yesterday, low (18.000 feet, according to the captain) from Barcelona (Venezuela) to Caracas. No sweat. Lovely 27 minutes on a 737-200...

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