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seabosdca
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:34 pm

I cannot imagine what the families of the crew go through in the wake of such a mysterious accident. I hope they have lots of support around them right now. They should be first in everyone's thoughts.

That does not preclude others from trying to understand what went wrong. People want to learn, and that requires discussion and, yes, informed speculation. Open-minded learning and willingness to let both data and circumstances teach us is how the industry got to the point where it is today, where an accident such as this is so very rare despite having thousands of commercial aircraft in the sky 24 hours a day. Trying to understand also helps many people, myself very much included, with the grieving process.

Given the suddenness of the dive I am wondering about uncommanded flight control movements. The 767 has already had one notorious accident resulting from those. If that is the cause, the FDR will tell us soon enough.
 
trnswrld
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:37 pm

ubeema wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Oh my god. I drove past that airplane this morning and saw it getting fueled for the accident flight. I can’t believe it’s destroyed now.

And can you believe more importantly 3 people lost their life! These people have colleagues that happen to be in forums such as this one.


I think you’re reading into that wrong. I would say most people here absolutely sympathize for the lives lost here....that goes without saying. The fact is he saw that exact aircraft earlier and that is a little startling...or freaky if you will. He isn’t trying to be an insensitive a-hole or anything.

Very sorry to all involved with this. I have a couple friends that fly cargo 767s I had to make some texts to find out if they were ok or not. RIP to those involved and hopefully they can figure out what happened fairly quick.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:38 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I cannot imagine what the families of the crew go through in the wake of such a mysterious accident. I hope they have lots of support around them right now. They should be first in everyone's thoughts.

That does not preclude others from trying to understand what went wrong. People want to learn, and that requires discussion and, yes, informed speculation. Open-minded learning and willingness to let both data and circumstances teach us is how the industry got to the point where it is today, where an accident such as this is so very rare despite having thousands of commercial aircraft in the sky 24 hours a day. Trying to understand also helps many people, myself very much included, with the grieving process.

Given the suddenness of the dive I am wondering about uncommanded flight control movements. The 767 has already had one notorious accident resulting from those. If that is the cause, the FDR will tell us soon enough.


I believe that was due to poorly located controls and that was addressed iirc.
-Dave


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skipness1E
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:39 pm

Egyptair or German Wings crashes anyone?
Someone just pushed forward with all their might?
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:40 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
edu2703 wrote:
Chambers County Sheriff has said witnesses told authorities that Atlas Air Flight 3591 went into a nose dive, then went into the water nose-first

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=405483013585823&id=42354254341&_rdr

This loss of pitch control almost certainly indicates something went wrong in regards to the horizontal stabilizer.


Wasn't there a series of AD's regarding the elevator feel computer a while back? Looking at the huge chasm between the reliability of the 757/767 family and modern Boeing designs (737NG and 777 especially) indicates there could be an issue with the 727-era systems that were copied over.


RIP to those involved :frown:
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Lilienthal
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:40 pm

Condensed version of the ATC recordings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cn58iVuzBY
 
trnswrld
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Re: Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:41 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
1989worstyear wrote:
drdisque wrote:
jetsetterusa wrote:
Do you guys think you could be a downdraft? Or whatever it's called ...


Downbursts usually are only dangerous on final approach, which it seems this flight was not. Also modern airliners are equipped with equipment to detect downdrafts. I think we'll have to see if there was a mayday call to have a clue what happened.


Except the 767 is not a modern aircraft.



It kinda sorta is. I mean, the dang thing is still being built to this day. I wouldn’t exactly call it an antique just yet lol. I think the term “modern aircraft” would include a twin engined wide body 767.....but that’s just me.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:50 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Egyptair or German Wings crashes anyone?
Someone just pushed forward with all their might?

No, nothing supports that.
This sounds like a weather-induced Accident.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:52 pm

Is all cargo screened? This is absolutely tragic but will be even more devastating if this was something criminal.

I'm not making any preidctions but crashing from weather seems a little far-fetched. When was the last time a transport category jet crashed due to weather in the US? The US Air DC-9 at CLT?
Last edited by TTailedTiger on Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:54 pm

Live stream shows FBI, and other feds leaving the site now, likely just locals the rest of the night until the GoTeams arrive in the morning. NTSB GoTeam departure presser just ended as well.
 
THS214
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:55 pm

[quote="seabosdca"]I cannot imagine what the families of the crew go through in the wake of such a mysterious accident. I hope they have lots of support around them right now. They should be first in everyone's thoughts.

That does not preclude others from trying to understand what went wrong.

I am sure that we all wish this accident didn't happen. Also no-one wanted anyone dead.

But aviation enthusiastics as we should be able to speculate. That is important part of this site. And maybe it is what we need for our psyche.
 
747megatop
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Re: Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:57 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Condolences to the families...

It’s been a long time since we had a plane crash of a jet in that size in the US...


There was the UPS A300 a few years ago. Before that, the last mainline jet that I recall crashing in the US was the AA A300 in 2001.

But yes, tragic as today's events are, we are fortunate that it is such an incredibly rare occurrence.

I'll be interested to learn what happened. 767s don't just normally fall out of the sky like that.

Well you forgot the Asian jet that crashed in SFO.
 
indcwby
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:58 pm

Driving back from Dallas to Houston. We're hitting wind gusts around 27 mph on the ground, doing that in an SUV on high overpasses is scary enough. I can only imagine what air travellers are experiencing over Texas. Wonder if it played a factor. Condolences to family and friends of the crew.
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Re: Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:59 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
Yikes. Hope the crew is ok, or at the very least it was quick. It’ll be interesting to see what caused this.


Sadly reports are the crew did not make it.
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:00 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Is all cargo screened? This is absolutely tragic but will be even more devastating if this was something criminal.

I'm not making any preidctions but crashing from weather seems a little far-fetched. When was the last time a transport category jet crashed due to weather in the US? The US Air DC-9 at CLT?

I think criminal activity is probably more far fetched than weather to be honest. Not to say that this accident is any less tragic because there were only 3 souls onboard but the fact of the matter is that having only 3 onboard doesn’t make it a very big target. It is also worth noting that as an all amazon flight it would be very hard for anything but common goods to be on this flight. Not saying it’s impossigle but it doesn’t seem extremely likely either.
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:03 am

THS214 wrote:
bralo20 wrote:
KICT wrote:
You'd think they would have at least made a radio call.
[/quot
Aviate, navigate, communicate in that order so communication is low on the last in a hands on emergency.


That is a Airliners.net myth but not the way pilots work. For example when ATC says go around, pilots say on the radio "go around" and then do what needs for go around.

Pilots can do several things simultaneously! Most of the time they can aviate, navigate, communicate at the same time. Its basic CRM.

In this situation it was something where most likely aviate, navigate, communicate was not an option but it was something worse.


Because a go around is a normal thing. Pilots acknowledge and act. In the event of catastrophic failure or non normal situations, the first and only job is to fly the aircraft.
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:03 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I'm not making any preidctions but crashing from weather seems a little far-fetched. When was the last time a transport category jet crashed due to weather in the US? The US Air DC-9 at CLT?

I agree. That being said, any weather could have added an additional variable that could have been manageable without having to worry about weather as well.
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:08 am

OB1504 wrote:
Oh my god. I drove past that airplane this morning and saw it getting fueled for the accident flight. I can’t believe it’s destroyed now.


I walked out to a plane once, it returned in a dump truck. That’s life. Very sad a crew died, one just getting a ride somewhere important. I always surprised at how shocked people are at aviation accidents when the other day two children died in a car accident possibly due to their father’s irresponsible driving get hardly any notice even locally.

GF
 
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:09 am

747Whale wrote:
THS214 wrote:
bralo20 wrote:


That is a Airliners.net myth but not the way pilots work. For example when ATC says go around, pilots say on the radio "go around" and then do what needs for go around.


Actually, it's exactly how it works. Aviate. Navigate. Communicate.

In that order.


Don't want to hijack this tread but you only quieted part of what I wrote. Pilots do all those things at the same time in a normal situation. And when that is not the case they do what they can.
 
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Re: Atlas Air or Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:11 am

KICT wrote:
That left turn is bizarre.


only reason i can think of that makes sense is that they knew they were doomed and didnt want to hurt anyone on the ground.
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:13 am

kabq737 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Is all cargo screened? This is absolutely tragic but will be even more devastating if this was something criminal.

I'm not making any preidctions but crashing from weather seems a little far-fetched. When was the last time a transport category jet crashed due to weather in the US? The US Air DC-9 at CLT?

I think criminal activity is probably more far fetched than weather to be honest. Not to say that this accident is any less tragic because there were only 3 souls onboard but the fact of the matter is that having only 3 onboard doesn’t make it a very big target. It is also worth noting that as an all amazon flight it would be very hard for anything but common goods to be on this flight. Not saying it’s impossigle but it doesn’t seem extremely likely either.


I see your point. And like I said I'm not making any claims to what happened. I'll wait for the NTSB report. Just thinking about things that could have caused such a quick disaster. But perhaps someone with a grudge working for or as a contractor for Atlas put a device among the packages. And not all bombs make the plane explode in one big kaboom. Especially if they are not at a high altitude such as this crash. See Metrojet 9268 as an example. They were able to save the flight since the bomb went off before reaching the cruise altitude. Perhaps something similar happened here but it took out a critical flight component.
 
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:18 am

NTSB sending a go team. RIP to those on board.
 
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:21 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Oh my god. I drove past that airplane this morning and saw it getting fueled for the accident flight. I can’t believe it’s destroyed now.


I walked out to a plane once, it returned in a dump truck. That’s life. Very sad a crew died, one just getting a ride somewhere important. I always surprised at how shocked people are at aviation accidents when the other day two children died in a car accident possibly due to their father’s irresponsible driving get hardly any notice even locally.

GF


Can't be more right!
 
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FA9295
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:25 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Oh my god. I drove past that airplane this morning and saw it getting fueled for the accident flight. I can’t believe it’s destroyed now.


I walked out to a plane once, it returned in a dump truck. That’s life. Very sad a crew died, one just getting a ride somewhere important. I always surprised at how shocked people are at aviation accidents when the other day two children died in a car accident possibly due to their father’s irresponsible driving get hardly any notice even locally.

GF

I mostly agree with your statement, but deadly aviation accidents these days are more rare then one might think. There are car crashes every day, but there are not plane crashes every day.
 
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Re: Atlas Air or Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:29 am

musman9853 wrote:
KICT wrote:
That left turn is bizarre.


only reason i can think of that makes sense is that they knew they were doomed and didnt want to hurt anyone on the ground.


I'm thinking the same thing - the left turn isn't part of the approach. If the turn was intentional, then the pilots are heroes for not putting this plane down on terra firma and possibly causing significant damage or loss of life.
xx
 
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:31 am

Please remember please keep the comments in good taste and of quality or they will be deleted. Thanks guys
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:32 am

FA9295 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Oh my god. I drove past that airplane this morning and saw it getting fueled for the accident flight. I can’t believe it’s destroyed now.


I walked out to a plane once, it returned in a dump truck. That’s life. Very sad a crew died, one just getting a ride somewhere important. I always surprised at how shocked people are at aviation accidents when the other day two children died in a car accident possibly due to their father’s irresponsible driving get hardly any notice even locally.

GF

I mostly agree with your statement, but deadly aviation accidents these days are more rare then one might think. There are car crashes every day, but there are not plane crashes every day.


Agreed. These things just shouldn't happen given all of the advances we have made. We allow any idiot to drive a car. Crashes are expected. Aircraft are now highly sophisticated and pilots are trained very well. This just shouldn't have happened. And it's deeply saddening to think of the last moments of the people onboard who most likely encountered something catastrophic and there was nothing they could do to get out of it.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Atlas Air or Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:33 am

usxguy wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
KICT wrote:
That left turn is bizarre.


only reason i can think of that makes sense is that they knew they were doomed and didnt want to hurt anyone on the ground.


I'm thinking the same thing - the left turn isn't part of the approach. If the turn was intentional, then the pilots are heroes for not putting this plane down on terra firma and possibly causing significant damage or loss of life.

This may very well be true, and if so--then it's very sad that they knew that they would lose their own lives but heroic that they had the dignity to steer the plane away from potentially a much larger disaster.

Rest in Peace to those aboard and prayers out to the families of those impacted by this incident.
 
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:36 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I walked out to a plane once, it returned in a dump truck. That’s life. Very sad a crew died, one just getting a ride somewhere important. I always surprised at how shocked people are at aviation accidents when the other day two children died in a car accident possibly due to their father’s irresponsible driving get hardly any notice even locally.

GF

I mostly agree with your statement, but deadly aviation accidents these days are more rare then one might think. There are car crashes every day, but there are not plane crashes every day.


Agreed. These things just shouldn't happen given all of the advances we have made. We allow any idiot to drive a car. Crashes are expected. Aircraft are now highly sophisticated and pilots are trained very well. This just shouldn't have happened. And it's deeply saddening to think of the last moments of the people onboard who most likely encountered something catastrophic and there was nothing they could do to get out of it.


I listened to the ATC and what a somber moment when there was no response....defiantly deeply saddening. :cry:
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Atlas Air or Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:37 am

musman9853 wrote:
KICT wrote:
That left turn is bizarre.


only reason i can think of that makes sense is that they knew they were doomed and didnt want to hurt anyone on the ground.


More likely the turn was to avoid weather, which is what they wanted from ATC.

GF
 
AirstairFear
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:39 am

kabq737 wrote:
It is also worth noting that as an all amazon flight it would be very hard for anything but common goods to be on this flight.


Depends on your definition of "very hard". How hard is it for a low-wage Amazon employee to slip a device into a shipment that he knows is bound for an aircraft? Keep in mind these are the caliber of employees that have been occasionally caught pocketing items and shipping empty boxes to the customers instead. If they can get away with that, surely they can get away with swapping items of similar weight.

Also consider what happens when a 3rd party FBA seller has items in an Amazon warehouse that need to be repositioned. (Amazon has no clue what's really in these boxes.) So far I have found just a single article behind a paywall that supposedly says that Amazon Air doesn't airlift 3rd party products, but I refuse to believe that it can never ever happen. Knowing a bit about how Amazon's processes work, or sometimes don't work, as the case may be.
 
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Re: Atlas Air or Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:45 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
KICT wrote:
That left turn is bizarre.


only reason i can think of that makes sense is that they knew they were doomed and didnt want to hurt anyone on the ground.


More likely the turn was to avoid weather, which is what they wanted from ATC.

GF

Doubtful. That turn is sudden and intentional... not ATC instructed. This looks like a turn to avoid casualties on the ground.
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LAXLHR
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Re: Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:51 am

KLASM83 wrote:
Miami wrote:
Vladex wrote:

At least its not a passenger flight


Does it matter what type of flight it was? Lives were lost.


A death is a death is a death, no matter what the haul.


Okay okay, lets not beat that poster up. I'm sure he means "at least" as in, if it was a passenger plane the death toll would be much higher!! Of course one life lost is one life too many. It's very sad.
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OB1504
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:53 am

ubeema wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Oh my god. I drove past that airplane this morning and saw it getting fueled for the accident flight. I can’t believe it’s destroyed now.

And can you believe more importantly 3 people lost their life! These people have colleagues that happen to be in forums such as this one.


Calm down. That's not how I meant it and you know it.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
747Whale wrote:
THS214 wrote:

That is a Airliners.net myth but not the way pilots work. For example when ATC says go around, pilots say on the radio "go around" and then do what needs for go around.


Actually, it's exactly how it works. Aviate. Navigate. Communicate.

In that order.


So you can’t do more than one of those at the same time?

[Waiting to get my head ripped off from the expert]


In a loss of control situation? No. If you can't aviate, you're sure as hell not able to communicate.
Last edited by OB1504 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:55 am

edu2703 wrote:
Granular ADS-B data by FlightRdar24

Image

Image


According to this , everything happened within 16-17 seconds . There looks like an attempt to slow the decent, but it could be a data issue. It went as if there was a nose down push at speed into the ground.

I just can't see this being an engine failure or an explosion of any type.//Edit == Based on news reports of the nose down dive with no smoke.
Last edited by casinterest on Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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B757capt
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:55 am

Very sad day for everyone including the Atlas family.

Any ideas what the MX history is? Did they do any work on the aircraft in Miami?
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:58 am

Regarding the cargo: Do Prime flights mostly carry merchandise that is already boxed, labeled and en route to the consumer? I was under the impression that they carried a lot of inventory into Amazon's fulfillment centers, which might be more densely packed.
 
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SaveFerris
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:59 am

A few things to mention..

1.) On Prime Air it is indeed only Amazon freight, so even if there is space on the plane Atlas wouldn’t be putting on any heavy equipment or other random cargo. Amazon effectively “owns” all of the space on the airplane so even if Atlas had their own freight to move outside of COMAT it wouldn’t be on a Prime Air flight.

2.) On the majority of Prime Air flights we don’t carry that much payload, we are normally between 40,000 and 60,000 pounds. Also we tend to shuttle around a lot of empty cans, so while a load shift is possible a loose can doesn’t weigh that much in the grand scheme of things (2000ish lbs a piece). It wouldn’t really have the ability to move too far as it would just run into another can (unlike National in Bagram). Note, I’m not discounting the load shift theroy just adding some facts.

3.) As far as smuggling something on board the airplane I’m not sure as to Amazon security as pilots don’t go through the same security screenings as warehouse employees but every entrance to an Amazon facility that I have been through has metal detectors and baggage scanners. I can’t comment on the training of security personnel but it’s not as easy as just wandering into a warehouse with some from or device. Once again, not discounting or supporting anything just adding facts.

4.) Someone mentioned EFIS, this is totally irrelevant to the crash but none of the 767s have been retrofitted with full EFIS yet.
 
osiris30
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:05 am

ubeema wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Oh my god. I drove past that airplane this morning and saw it getting fueled for the accident flight. I can’t believe it’s destroyed now.

And can you believe more importantly 3 people lost their life! These people have colleagues that happen to be in forums such as this one.


I doubt the poster meant it the way you took his comment. With that said he didn't see the people. He saw the plane. It is human nature that the first reaction to the thing you had the connection to.

For example on 9-11 the first thing my brain processed was the destruction of aircraft. The humans in them and the buildings took longer to register.
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:06 am

OB1504 wrote:
ubeema wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Oh my god. I drove past that airplane this morning and saw it getting fueled for the accident flight. I can’t believe it’s destroyed now.

And can you believe more importantly 3 people lost their life! These people have colleagues that happen to be in forums such as this one.


Calm down. That's not how I meant it and you know it.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
747Whale wrote:

Actually, it's exactly how it works. Aviate. Navigate. Communicate.

In that order.


So you can’t do more than one of those at the same time?

[Waiting to get my head ripped off from the expert]


In a loss of control situation? No. If you can't aviate, you're sure as hell not able to communicate.


Some can some don't. It doesn't make a difference. My point is that pilots (2) can do a lot more than just follow Aviate Navigate.Communicate.

Remember that most of the time when plane plummets to the ground pilots scream, say something. Why they can't push the tangent? In the end it doesn't matter.

What ever those pilots experienced during the last moments of the flight, I wish it would have been a normal landing not a crash.
 
2175301
Posts: 1472
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:09 am

There is good video on the local news station (without needing a Facebook account).

https://abc13.com/

Also, reports of human remains found:

https://abc13.com/human-remains-found-a ... o/5153229/

Condolences to the families and friends. RIP
 
OB1504
Posts: 3649
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:12 am

osiris30 wrote:
ubeema wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Oh my god. I drove past that airplane this morning and saw it getting fueled for the accident flight. I can’t believe it’s destroyed now.

And can you believe more importantly 3 people lost their life! These people have colleagues that happen to be in forums such as this one.


I doubt the poster meant it the way you took his comment. With that said he didn't see the people. He saw the plane. It is human nature that the first reaction to the thing you had the connection to.

For example on 9-11 the first thing my brain processed was the destruction of aircraft. The humans in them and the buildings took longer to register.


:thumbsup: Having seen the flight depart this morning is shocking because people died.

If this had been a benign runway excursion with no injuries, I wouldn't shed any tears for the airplane.
 
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SaveFerris
Posts: 62
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:13 am

redzeppelin wrote:
Regarding the cargo: Do Prime flights mostly carry merchandise that is already boxed, labeled and en route to the consumer? I was under the impression that they carried a lot of inventory into Amazon's fulfillment centers, which might be more densely packed.


It normally appears to be a majority of merchandise enroute to the customer. I say appears as every container I have seen is full of boxes with the Amazon tape on them, it would seem very wasteful to transport goods in Amazon boxes to different fulfillment centers. The cans are very densely packed but once again they are all relatively light as the majority of the freight are smallish packages.
 
Babyshark
Posts: 176
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:14 am

THS214 wrote:
bralo20 wrote:
KICT wrote:
You'd think they would have at least made a radio call.
[/quot
Aviate, navigate, communicate in that order so communication is low on the last in a hands on emergency.


That is a Airliners.net myth but not the way pilots work. For example when ATC says go around, pilots say on the radio "go around" and then do what needs for go around.

Pilots can do several things simultaneously! Most of the time they can aviate, navigate, communicate at the same time. Its basic CRM.

In this situation it was something where most likely aviate, navigate, communicate was not an option but it was something worse.


Actually depends on the situation. A go around at 2000' AGL we may acknowledge first, but a low altitude we'll get back to you. You'll notice us on the go. Too many callouts inside the cockpit get butchered if the pilot tries to talk to ATC simultaneously especially if it turns into a second call by ATC with directions.

So aviate, navigate, communicate. ATC will catch you once they can see you're safely on the go.

For instance on a Airbus the callouts by the pilot flying are "GO AROUND" at which point they go to TOGA power. The pilot monitoring needs to back this up and look at the FMA and verify that they see SRS which means the airplane is going around. So the PM will then say "SRS VERIFIED" to which the PF will respond with flaps 3 or 2, and then the PM will act accordingly then call positive rate and then the PF will call for gear up. That's the aviate part. Now standby for ATC to give instructions and that becomes the navigate on the FCU panel and between each other then we'll communicate and respond. Probably at the earliest 500' AGL if the missed was at minimums.

When those get out of orders the go arounds get screwed up. So aviate, navigate and then when you can communicate
 
log0008
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Atlas Air or Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:16 am

drerx7 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

only reason i can think of that makes sense is that they knew they were doomed and didnt want to hurt anyone on the ground.


More likely the turn was to avoid weather, which is what they wanted from ATC.

GF

Doubtful. That turn is sudden and intentional... not ATC instructed. This looks like a turn to avoid casualties on the ground.


I'm not discounting this but to me it doesn't make sence, at the time of the turn the aircraft was descending at a stable rate, what could go so wrong that you thought you were going to loss control very shortly, but you had enough control to make the turn? The turn was definitely intentional, just a matter of why, could have been due weather but for some reason they didn't tell ATC or Liveatc missed the message. Its even possible that something cause a loss of comms meaning they couldn't advise of the turn.
 
georgiabill
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:18 am

Could a cargo movement affected the center of gravity enough to cause this accident?
 
osiris30
Posts: 2655
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:16 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:19 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I walked out to a plane once, it returned in a dump truck. That’s life. Very sad a crew died, one just getting a ride somewhere important. I always surprised at how shocked people are at aviation accidents when the other day two children died in a car accident possibly due to their father’s irresponsible driving get hardly any notice even locally.

GF

I mostly agree with your statement, but deadly aviation accidents these days are more rare then one might think. There are car crashes every day, but there are not plane crashes every day.


Agreed. These things just shouldn't happen given all of the advances we have made. We allow any idiot to drive a car. Crashes are expected. Aircraft are now highly sophisticated and pilots are trained very well. This just shouldn't have happened. And it's deeply saddening to think of the last moments of the people onboard who most likely encountered something catastrophic and there was nothing they could do to get out of it.


Physical/mechanical failures will always happen. With good engineering and practice they will get fewer and fewer but it will always be a thing we have to deal. History shows this trend, as we learn more and our tech advances the failure become rarer and rarer but they will never go away. It is just the nature of physics that ANYTHING (almost) can happen.

We just need to learn and keep improving. It is all we can do.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9005
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:21 am

georgiabill wrote:
Could a cargo movement affected the center of gravity enough to cause this accident?


I'll let others state their thoughts, but to be a nose down dive, i think the plane was already going down beyond normal flight parameters before any such shift happened That may be the rate of decent change seen in the graphs of the last minute.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3520
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Atlas Air or Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:33 am

drerx7 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

only reason i can think of that makes sense is that they knew they were doomed and didnt want to hurt anyone on the ground.


More likely the turn was to avoid weather, which is what they wanted from ATC.

GF

Doubtful. That turn is sudden and intentional... not ATC instructed. This looks like a turn to avoid casualties on the ground.


Having done that very turn many times, my bet still on weather avoidance. It may not have been directed by ATC, either, joust the crew deciding they needed to move. Everyone likes to think pilots can and do avoid populated areas, but if the plane is under control they don’t need to turn, if it’s not, they can’t,


GF
 
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tenHangar
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:34 am

Maybe my timeline is off. Was that turn to the left before or during loss of altitude/signs of trouble on flightaware?

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