GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3974
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:00 am

F9Animal wrote:
I have to ask since I really dont know. Are there fire suppression systems on cargo aircraft, like the kinds they have in cargo holds of airliners? I know the possibility of a fire remains low on the suspected list of potential causes, but it now has me wondering.

As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.


You’ve never heard of pilots commuting to/from home to work? Really, that’s the reality!

GF
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:01 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Flight control failure, icing and an aggressive fire are very plausible explanations.
A li-ion fire is a very real possibility, you should see how quickly the Asiana and UPS cargo flights went down.

The heat can develop so quickly, that by the time that a master warning sounds, the aircraft is doomed.
It could be that the pilots throttled back and pitched up in an attempt to lose as much speed in order to operate all possible drag devices and start a steep descent into the lake and attempt a ditching but lot control or became incapacitated.

It took a whole 30 minutes between the time the crew of UPS Flight 6 discovered the fire and the time they crashed. They returned to Dubai, attempted to land at DXB but were too high.
It took 8 minutes between the time the crew of Asiana Cargo Flight 991 communicated about the fire (which was obviously discovered before) and the time radio contact was lost.

Lithium batteries can put out a hot smoky fire; but it won't take down a plane in 30 seconds...
 
log0008
Posts: 480
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:02 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I have to ask since I really dont know. Are there fire suppression systems on cargo aircraft, like the kinds they have in cargo holds of airliners? I know the possibility of a fire remains low on the suspected list of potential causes, but it now has me wondering.

As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.


You’ve never heard of pilots commuting to/from home to work? Really, that’s the reality!

GF


I'd estimate that more than 25% of pilots in America (higher at the regionals) commute to work by jump seating.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:02 am

F9Animal wrote:
As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.

Colgan Air 3407. Read the NSTB report and see what the reality is.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:04 am

WayexTDI wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.

Colgan Air 3407. Read the NSTB report and see what the reality is.


I wonder if he means the hijacking/suicide scenario?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
kalvado
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:05 am

Braniff7272 wrote:
These past couple of pages have become redundant and a tad idiotic. Between the video of a obvious helicopter, (Not a floating 767) to hijacking etc, it's no wonder people shake their heads at the comments posted here.
It's cool to be speculative on what, "Might" have happened, but the point being, we don't know and won't know until the NTSB listens to the chatter in the cockpit, and the flight data from the, "Boxes". And now, possible REAL video is now being obtained by the NTSB, which will undoubtedly be crucial for the investigation, is finally making it's way to them. But, until that time arrives that the NTSB releases a report, or final report of their investigations, can we stop with the hijacking nonsense? It's just stupid.
We will all know when they want us to know. Until then, just keep these pilots and their families in your thoughts. What they must be going thru is the real story right now.

Initial speculation period, while topic is still hot. That will last until there is some progress in investigation. For some reason, there are usually a few days, if not weeks, until some details emerge. Like, you know, investigators need to do some work on the scene.
There are cases when an accident is more clear and initial data or final communications may tell at least something (e.g CFIT cases). But in this case there is none, so brace yourself for a flame shitstorm until NTSB says something meaningful from FDR recordings.
 
log0008
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:06 am

WayexTDI wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.

Colgan Air 3407. Read the NSTB report and see what the reality is.


Or watch Air Crash Investigations for the same accident. The crew were New York based but the F/O lived in Seattle and deadheaded with Fedex via Memphis and the Captain in Florida. Neither could afford to live in NY, especially the F/O who was earning $16,000 per year.
 
Braniff7272
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:07 am

Anyone who works in a transportation industry, that requires humans to operate any particular machinery, Planes, Trains, Ships...etc, have other employees hitching rides back to their place of origin or shuttle to another location for another assignment. Happens 24 hours of every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Jesus, come on y'all..... THINK common sense more often.
 
Braniff7272
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:11 am

kalvado wrote:
Braniff7272 wrote:
These past couple of pages have become redundant and a tad idiotic. Between the video of a obvious helicopter, (Not a floating 767) to hijacking etc, it's no wonder people shake their heads at the comments posted here.
It's cool to be speculative on what, "Might" have happened, but the point being, we don't know and won't know until the NTSB listens to the chatter in the cockpit, and the flight data from the, "Boxes". And now, possible REAL video is now being obtained by the NTSB, which will undoubtedly be crucial for the investigation, is finally making it's way to them. But, until that time arrives that the NTSB releases a report, or final report of their investigations, can we stop with the hijacking nonsense? It's just stupid.
We will all know when they want us to know. Until then, just keep these pilots and their families in your thoughts. What they must be going thru is the real story right now.

Initial speculation period, while topic is still hot. That will last until there is some progress in investigation. For some reason, there are usually a few days, if not weeks, until some details emerge. Like, you know, investigators need to do some work on the scene.
There are cases when an accident is more clear and initial data or final communications may tell at least something (e.g CFIT cases). But in this case there is none, so brace yourself for a flame shitstorm until NTSB says something meaningful from FDR recordings.



Well wonderful. I've lurked here for so many years and have seen some really insane comments. I know threads and comments can turn into looney bins sometimes. I guess what throws me off is the lack of just basic common sense. But, look around. Common sense is becoming as scarce as the B727.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:15 am

NTSB said they have a video, taken from the local jail security camera, of the last 5 seconds.
Amazon Cargo Jet Dove Steeply Into Bay Near Houston, Video Shows

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ree-aboard
 
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SaveFerris
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:20 am

F9Animal wrote:
I have to ask since I really dont know. Are there fire suppression systems on cargo aircraft, like the kinds they have in cargo holds of airliners? I know the possibility of a fire remains low on the suspected list of potential causes, but it now has me wondering.

As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.


The suppression for the main deck on the 767 is done by effectively depressurizing the airplane, there aren’t any fire bottles that release agents into the main deck.
 
barney captain
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:25 am

F9Animal wrote:
I have to ask since I really dont know. Are there fire suppression systems on cargo aircraft, like the kinds they have in cargo holds of airliners? I know the possibility of a fire remains low on the suspected list of potential causes, but it now has me wondering.

As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.


You’ve never heard of pilots commuting to/from home to work? Really, that’s the reality!


Anyone who works in a transportation industry, that requires humans to operate any particular machinery, Planes, Trains, Ships...etc, have other employees hitching rides back to their place of origin or shuttle to another location for another assignment. Happens 24 hours of every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Jesus, come on y'all..... THINK common sense more often.


Guys - I think F9 understands commuters. I believe he was referring to the jumpseater committing murder/suicide ala Fedex.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
ryanov
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:27 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
guppyflyer wrote:
Alaska 261 comes to mind.

That was a jackscrew failure in a system that has a different design. Good point, but not applicable to the 767.

It really is not a good point, unless you're going to start saying "X comes to mind" and list every crash where some plane went into water. It's not even the same manufacturer.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:34 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.

Colgan Air 3407. Read the NSTB report and see what the reality is.


I wonder if he means the hijacking/suicide scenario?


It is a horrible scenario to think about. And by no means am I saying that is what happened here. But it has happened before with Egypt Air, Silk Air, Japan Airlines, Germanwings. It almost happened to FedEx 705. Luckily the first officer flew the DC-10 to the edge and was able to use the aircraft to subdue the other pilot who had intended to crash the plane into FedEx headquarters. The only silver lining of such a horrible scenario would be that we aren't looking at a fatal flaw in the 767 or some sort of new weather phenomenon that can bring a plane down in a few seconds.
 
Navman101
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:34 am

My best guess is "Runaway Stab" for the cause.
 
mm320cap
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Re: Atlas Air or Giant 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:34 am

Jgsushi wrote:
log0008 wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
Doubtful. That turn is sudden and intentional... not ATC instructed. This looks like a turn to avoid casualties on the ground.


I'm not discounting this but to me it doesn't make sence, at the time of the turn the aircraft was descending at a stable rate, what could go so wrong that you thought you were going to loss control very shortly, but you had enough control to make the turn? The turn was definitely intentional, just a matter of why, could have been due weather but for some reason they didn't tell ATC or Liveatc missed the message. Its even possible that something cause a loss of comms meaning they couldn't advise of the turn.


I would like to point out that losing control of the elevators doesn't mean you lose control of the ailerons. If they lost pitch control, they could still roll left towards uninhabited land. Still unlikely, but it can't be ruled out.


Except they were IMC based on the report from the UAL plane right behind them. They wouldn’t have any idea what was populated and not at the time they lost control of the jet. It also shoots down the drone possibly and the bird theory.
 
yoshua16
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:37 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but could the NTSB stop Atlas Air from temporary flying their 767s until the cause of this crash is figured out?
No reason to right now since so far they dont know if it's a issue that will affect all 767's. They use older second hand 767's so if it was a structural failure it would probably be due to a failure in maintenance.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:38 am

Navman101 wrote:
My best guess is "Runaway Stab" for the cause.


You might be right. I’ll just say that I’ve been surprised on many occasions to learn that the ultimate cause was nothing like was expected. Often it ended up being human error due to responding incorrectly to a situation (or a lack of response).
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
toneale
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:40 am

Except they were IMC based on the report from the UAL plane right behind them. They wouldn’t have any idea what was populated and not at the time they lost control of the jet. It also shoots down the drone possibly and the bird theory.


Exactly. Heard the same from ATC....UAL reported solid IMC. It would have taken time for the pilots to understand what was happening, and the lack of visibility would have made it more difficult. Runaway stab trim would make a lot of sense.
 
Indy
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:41 am

Braniff7272 wrote:
Well wonderful. I've lurked here for so many years and have seen some really insane comments. I know threads and comments can turn into looney bins sometimes. I guess what throws me off is the lack of just basic common sense. But, look around. Common sense is becoming as scarce as the B727.


Show us one piece of evidence that says this wreck cannot be a pilot suicide or a takeover by another person. Just one piece. There isn't any. At this point, a pilot suicide or a takeover by another person is every bit as likely as any other possible scenario. At this point about all we can rule out is the plane ran out of fuel and glided into the water. There are countless possible scenarios that could have resulted in the plane crashing and that includes suicide/hijack. To say otherwise is just ignorant. Every theory floated is 100% speculation until the NTSB starts releasing information.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
mysfit
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:56 am

Nothing has been ruled out is a very long way from all possibilities are equal.

They aren't. Some possibilities are not as likely as others. Hearing hooves outside your window does not mean the probability of a zebra is the same as a horse.

Something happened to that aircraft and the most likely questions are were the pilots aware they were in a descent and what were their actions leading up to and during. That's a horse. Pilot or pax suicide is still a zebra.
 
757223
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:58 am

Did anyone else notice that on the early part of the ATC recording, we hear one individual in the cockpit, but later we hear another individual (perhaps captain taking over flying)? Also, when the crew asks about heading West in the last transmission, did you notice the response seemed hurried (and likely under stress)?
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787,319/320/321,MD-80,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,BAC-111,F-100,CRJ-200/700/900,EMB-135/140/145,SF-340
 
juliuswong
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:04 am

This is truly saddening. Prayers and thoughts are with the victims' families during this difficult time.

Felt eerie to see the last photo of N1217A taken by one of our members here, the crew never knew it was going to be their last flight. RIP.

Anyone knows what is Amazon Prime Air current fleet, including CAM, ATI and Atlas? Any more due for deliveries?
Last edited by juliuswong on Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
mysfit
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:04 am

I just read a synopsis of the press conference.

Steep descent on in....is it possible they had the wrong altitude? The ground level was set wrong somehow? Apologies if this is a really stupid question.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:06 am

mysfit wrote:
Nothing has been ruled out is a very long way from all possibilities are equal.

They aren't. Some possibilities are not as likely as others. Hearing hooves outside your window does not mean the probability of a zebra is the same as a horse.

Something happened to that aircraft and the most likely questions are were the pilots aware they were in a descent and what were their actions leading up to and during. That's a horse. Pilot or pax suicide is still a zebra.


You might have a point if pilot sucide had never been a cause of a crash. Unfortunately that just isn't the case. Again, not saying that's what happened here but it's certainly not a stretch to think of it as being a reason. AFAIK the only time a 767 suffered a mechanical failure was the Lauda flight when a thrust reverser deployed. The system was modified so that it could never happen again. Something very unusual or very sinister seems to be the culprit.
 
jagraham
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:10 am

[url][/url]
yoshua16 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but could the NTSB stop Atlas Air from temporary flying their 767s until the cause of this crash is figured out?
No reason to right now since so far they dont know if it's a issue that will affect all 767's. They use older second hand 767's so if it was a structural failure it would probably be due to a failure in maintenance.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


When United 232 (Sioux City) crashed, they knew an engine came apart in an unexpected way. And damaged all three hydraulic systems. Knew before the plane crash landed. The very next day I took a United DC10 from Boston to Chicago.

FAA and NTSB don't ground planes without some idea of what happened. Or multiple instances of the same thing. Besides, 767s have been flying for over 30 years. There's no reason to believe that 767s have suddenly become unsafe.

For the record I am guessing weather (lightning) but as other posters have said, we are all speculating until the black boxes are read.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:14 am

log0008 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I have to ask since I really dont know. Are there fire suppression systems on cargo aircraft, like the kinds they have in cargo holds of airliners? I know the possibility of a fire remains low on the suspected list of potential causes, but it now has me wondering.

As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.


You’ve never heard of pilots commuting to/from home to work? Really, that’s the reality!

GF


I'd estimate that more than 25% of pilots in America (higher at the regionals) commute to work by jump seating.


It’s much higher than 25%, well over 50%. Probably pushing 70%
From my cold, dead hands
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:16 am

mysfit wrote:
I just read a synopsis of the press conference.

Steep descent on in....is it possible they had the wrong altitude? The ground level was set wrong somehow? Apologies if this is a really stupid question.


You got it right, dumb question. The wrong altitude set in the alerter wouldn’t send the plane into a steep descent and the pilots could easily stop it.

GF
 
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Narfish641
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:17 am

R.I.P. to the three crew members who passed away in the flight. This was absolutely sad and devastating.
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
yoshua16
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:27 am

jagraham wrote:
[url][/url]
yoshua16 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but could the NTSB stop Atlas Air from temporary flying their 767s until the cause of this crash is figured out?
No reason to right now since so far they dont know if it's a issue that will affect all 767's. They use older second hand 767's so if it was a structural failure it would probably be due to a failure in maintenance.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


When United 232 (Sioux City) crashed, they knew an engine came apart in an unexpected way. And damaged all three hydraulic systems. Knew before the plane crash landed. The very next day I took a United DC10 from Boston to Chicago.

FAA and NTSB don't ground planes without some idea of what happened. Or multiple instances of the same thing. Besides, 767s have been flying for over 30 years. There's no reason to believe that 767s have suddenly become unsafe.

For the record I am guessing weather (lightning) but as other posters have said, we are all speculating until the black boxes are read.
I know it's a safe plane. I build them. So I could see weather being a factor.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
weekendppl
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
But it has happened before with Egypt Air, Silk Air, Japan Airlines, Germanwings. It almost happened to FedEx 705.

Not to mention the Malaysia 777 still missing somewhere in the South Indian Ocean. Which may well be the same root cause.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:34 am

Runaway stab trim is a memory item on the 767. Happens too fast for a checklist, makes sense.
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Brandon757
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:35 am

New video of debris field today. Much more showing today.https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2095282713893245&id=457548700999996
 
Okcflyer
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:38 am

Remote possibility: one of the two crew flying had a heart attack or stroke and unintentionally leaned forward into the column and there wasn’t enough time or altitude to respond?
 
danj555
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:46 am

Yea I was about to ask about this. Can't find the clip itself. Maybe cause it's a video recorded from a gov't building?
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:52 am

Brandon757 wrote:
New video of debris field today. Much more showing today.https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2095282713893245&id=457548700999996


Wow, no large flight controls from what I can see, no flaps, elevators, or rudder. No engine. That is just heart breaking!
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
juliuswong
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:53 am

jagraham wrote:
[url][/url]
yoshua16 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but could the NTSB stop Atlas Air from temporary flying their 767s until the cause of this crash is figured out?
No reason to right now since so far they dont know if it's a issue that will affect all 767's. They use older second hand 767's so if it was a structural failure it would probably be due to a failure in maintenance.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


When United 232 (Sioux City) crashed, they knew an engine came apart in an unexpected way. And damaged all three hydraulic systems. Knew before the plane crash landed. The very next day I took a United DC10 from Boston to Chicago.

FAA and NTSB don't ground planes without some idea of what happened. Or multiple instances of the same thing. Besides, 767s have been flying for over 30 years. There's no reason to believe that 767s have suddenly become unsafe.

For the record I am guessing weather (lightning) but as other posters have said, we are all speculating until the black boxes are read.

Yes, 767 has been in service for almost four decades, safely carrying millions of pax and tonnes of cargo (touch wood) around the world and only one major incident involving design of the aircraft (Re: Lauda Air Flight 004). It is way too early to speculate what have gone wrong until the black boxes have been recovered and read. Not sure why there are many members here kept insisting or defend their theories incessantly.

One of the three victims is now identified: https://abc13.com/1-victim-identified-i ... o/5154495/
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
danvs
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:56 am

757223 wrote:
Did anyone else notice that [...] when the crew asks about heading West in the last transmission, [...] the response seemed hurried (and likely under stress)?

I had the same impression. The crew actually started replying while ATC was still talking.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:00 am

Remember, there wasn't much of Valujet 592 either. That part of the lake is a bit less lush than the swamps that swallowed up 592, but is still a big mud bog.

Looking at the wreckage of that 767, wow. It was obliterated...
 
Okie
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:02 am

The authorities have indicated there was no fuel/oil slick.
That has to be a pretty good indication that the integrity of the wings were violated before the plane made terra firma/swamp/bay and the fuel evaporated into the atmosphere.

Nick Lauda's 767-300 (Lauda 004) broke up and went down quickly within seconds when the thrust reverser sleeve actuated in flight and lost lift over the left wing and inverted before it started to break up in mid air.

NTSB did not say how good their 6 second video from the jail house video camera was as to the integrity of the aircraft before it crashed.


Okie
 
IADCA
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:08 am

Okcflyer wrote:
Remote possibility: one of the two crew flying had a heart attack or stroke and unintentionally leaned forward into the column and there wasn’t enough time or altitude to respond?


Given the conditions reported, it's hard to believe they wouldn't have been belted in.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:36 am

IADCA wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
Remote possibility: one of the two crew flying had a heart attack or stroke and unintentionally leaned forward into the column and there wasn’t enough time or altitude to respond?


Given the conditions reported, it's hard to believe they wouldn't have been belted in.


Right. They would have been belted in with their shoulder harnesses regardless of the conditions.

I responded to this earlier. Like I said in my last post, we have a lot of people grasping at straws to speculate a cause without having any idea what they are talking about.
 
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BWIAirport
Posts: 869
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:39 am

klm617 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but could the NTSB stop Atlas Air from temporary flying their 767s until the cause of this crash is figured out?


Why would they do that. If there is a problem with the 767 then they would have to ground all 767s not just the Atlas Air birds.

I'm certainly far from an expert but I believe that, since the 767 for the most part has been flying quite safely for almost 40 years that any issue would have been with Giant's maintenance rather than a design flaw in the 767 itself.
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Flyer732
Posts: 1365
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:43 am

diseased wrote:
Anyone else think it's a little strange to jumpseat on a cargo carrier during the middle of the day on a route that has frequent service by UAL/AAL?



Not at all, if a flight is full, with 20 standby and a lot of other jumpseat pilots listed, vs a sure thing on a freighter. Take the cargo flight. It's really that simple. A lot more comfortable on a cargo plane than a passenger plane too.
 
Canuck600
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:46 am

I think what everybody is driving at is there is no need to keep asking the same questions over & over if people have read the thread. The repeated questions are just being people being lazy. Wish the mods would delete questions that have been asked more then once.

FA9295 wrote:
ryanov wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
People learn from discussion. Why even post the topic if we can’t discuss our thoughts, no matter how uneducated they may be? Frankly, some of the best threads have been those where a tragedy like this is discussed and hashed out in a respectful manner. I’ve learned so much from those threads.

It really doesn't seem like they do. Case in point? The cargo shift question, asked and answered at least 3 times already. Multiple people referencing Lauda Air, even though thrust reversers were redesigned long ago so it's theoretically impossible (which has been mentioned at least once). I could understand people who don't know much about aviation thinking all sorts of things could cause a nosedive, but the same questions over and over are tedious. Same with the "same as X accident? they were the same type of plane," even though no other part of the circumstances line up. It wouldn't be so hard to read the whole thread if there weren't so much of this stuff in it. :)

EDIT: Someone even asked the cargo shift question again between the post I quoted and this one.

This thread has become very long already. Questions are going to be asked many times here. Deal with it.
 
Whiplash6
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:30 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:51 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Why would they do that. If there is a problem with the 767 then they would have to ground all 767s not just the Atlas Air birds.

I'm certainly far from an expert but I believe that, since the 767 for the most part has been flying quite safely for almost 40 years that any issue would have been with Giant's maintenance rather than a design flaw in the 767 itself.


Your comment is certainly more intelligent than most posts on this thread. The 767 has a phenomenal safety record. However, I’m not aware of any issues with Atlas’ maintenance. We’ll have to wait and see what the investigation shows. At this point we have no idea what happened.

Don’t suggest that an operator had poor maintenance because that may very well not be the case.



Direct your maintenance comments towards FEAM.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:55 am

I'm on a cruise right now and there are two guys aboard who overheard me talking about it. Turns out they're both Atlas 767 captains.

RIP to the crew and condolences to their friends, family, and colleagues.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Braniff7272
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:01 pm

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:01 am

Indy wrote:
Braniff7272 wrote:
Well wonderful. I've lurked here for so many years and have seen some really insane comments. I know threads and comments can turn into looney bins sometimes. I guess what throws me off is the lack of just basic common sense. But, look around. Common sense is becoming as scarce as the B727.


Show us one piece of evidence that says this wreck cannot be a pilot suicide or a takeover by another person. Just one piece. There isn't any. At this point, a pilot suicide or a takeover by another person is every bit as likely as any other possible scenario. At this point about all we can rule out is the plane ran out of fuel and glided into the water. There are countless possible scenarios that could have resulted in the plane crashing and that includes suicide/hijack. To say otherwise is just ignorant. Every theory floated is 100% speculation until the NTSB starts releasing information.


Really? Let's just say there was a possibility Santa and his reindeer were on vacation to the see the Houston Rockets play and when they left, they filed VFR out of IAH and accidentally collided with them. I mean, it's possible that it could have happened, yes?
Hijacking, while possible, is highly remote.
Re-read my post prior to this one. :smile:
Last edited by Braniff7272 on Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7994
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:05 am

log0008 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
As for the pilot hitching a ride, I have serious doubts that would have happened. I mean, let's face the reality.

Colgan Air 3407. Read the NSTB report and see what the reality is.


Or watch Air Crash Investigations for the same accident. The crew were New York based but the F/O lived in Seattle and deadheaded with Fedex via Memphis and the Captain in Florida. Neither could afford to live in NY, especially the F/O who was earning $16,000 per year.


Well, 2 hours outside of NYC, what we call "upstate", and it's very-affordable. A lot closer than Seattle, even by air. People make choices.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:12 am

Braniff7272 wrote:
Indy wrote:
Braniff7272 wrote:
Well wonderful. I've lurked here for so many years and have seen some really insane comments. I know threads and comments can turn into looney bins sometimes. I guess what throws me off is the lack of just basic common sense. But, look around. Common sense is becoming as scarce as the B727.


Show us one piece of evidence that says this wreck cannot be a pilot suicide or a takeover by another person. Just one piece. There isn't any. At this point, a pilot suicide or a takeover by another person is every bit as likely as any other possible scenario. At this point about all we can rule out is the plane ran out of fuel and glided into the water. There are countless possible scenarios that could have resulted in the plane crashing and that includes suicide/hijack. To say otherwise is just ignorant. Every theory floated is 100% speculation until the NTSB starts releasing information.


Really? Let's just say there was a possibility Santa and his reindeer were on vacation to the see the Houston Rockets play and when they left, they filed VFR out of IAH and accidentally collided with them. I mean, it's possible that it could have happened, yes?
Hijacking, while possible, is highly remote.
Re-read my post prior to this one. :smile:


This is just silly and arguing for the sake of arguing. Santa isn't real and reindeer don't fly. But planes have been crashed by suicidal crew members.

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