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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:25 pm

How many times has a lightning strike been mentioned? Resulting in sudden 100% complete power failure? No time to engage APU, no time to deploy RAT.
© 2019. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
Western727
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:31 pm

In response to the recent comments about the 763 appearing to "try to pull up" (or at least having a reduced pitch just before impact) in the latest video...if true, is it possible that the reduction in pitch is only a result of an increase in airspeed from the dive...and not elevator input by the flight crew or A/P?

As a GA pilot, this happens when I pitch down without reducing engine power sufficiently, wanting to descend at a higher speed. As most of you know, applying elevator trim is then necessary to maintain the desired nose-down pitch as the airspeed climbs.
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trnswrld
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:34 pm

Western727 wrote:
In response to the recent comments about the 763 appearing to "try to pull up" (or at least having a reduced pitch just before impact) in the latest video...if true, is it possible that the reduction in pitch is only a result of an increase in airspeed from the dive...and not elevator input by the flight crew or A/P?

As a GA pilot, this happens when I pitch down without reducing engine power sufficiently, wanting to descend at a higher speed. As most of you know, applying elevator trim is then necessary to maintain the desired nose-down pitch as the airspeed climbs.


I would say yes absolutely. So it can really go either way. Maybe they were pulling out of it by flying the airplane, or it could have just been doing that on its own because of the increasing speed like you said.
 
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Carlos01
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:04 pm

trnswrld wrote:
Western727 wrote:
In response to the recent comments about the 763 appearing to "try to pull up" (or at least having a reduced pitch just before impact) in the latest video...if true, is it possible that the reduction in pitch is only a result of an increase in airspeed from the dive...and not elevator input by the flight crew or A/P?

As a GA pilot, this happens when I pitch down without reducing engine power sufficiently, wanting to descend at a higher speed. As most of you know, applying elevator trim is then necessary to maintain the desired nose-down pitch as the airspeed climbs.


I would say yes absolutely. So it can really go either way. Maybe they were pulling out of it by flying the airplane, or it could have just been doing that on its own because of the increasing speed like you said.


Perhaps the pilots of this forum could comment, what would actually happen at such high speed (at the end of the flight), if the pilot would pull back on the column with full strength. Would the control surfaces be too heavy for anything to happen, would the surfaces move but create only vaportrail, or perhaps the entire plane change angle but continue to go down (wings not able to generate lift anymore)? I am asking this because I have no clue, I'm not a pilot, so please spare me from the LMAO/ROFL -comments. I have seen fighterjets recover from similar dives at airshows (and videos of non-recoveries), but I would presume a 767 is a bit of a different animal.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:17 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
I am not in agreement it looks like they are trying to pull up before impact. I believe it’s just the angle of the video.


Agreed. I can't see any attempt of it either.

I think its the horizon effect just as the moon looks larger close to the horizon.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:33 pm

Carlos01 wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
Western727 wrote:
In response to the recent comments about the 763 appearing to "try to pull up" (or at least having a reduced pitch just before impact) in the latest video...if true, is it possible that the reduction in pitch is only a result of an increase in airspeed from the dive...and not elevator input by the flight crew or A/P?

As a GA pilot, this happens when I pitch down without reducing engine power sufficiently, wanting to descend at a higher speed. As most of you know, applying elevator trim is then necessary to maintain the desired nose-down pitch as the airspeed climbs.


I would say yes absolutely. So it can really go either way. Maybe they were pulling out of it by flying the airplane, or it could have just been doing that on its own because of the increasing speed like you said.


Perhaps the pilots of this forum could comment, what would actually happen at such high speed (at the end of the flight), if the pilot would pull back on the column with full strength. Would the control surfaces be too heavy for anything to happen, would the surfaces move but create only vaportrail, or perhaps the entire plane change angle but continue to go down (wings not able to generate lift anymore)? I am asking this because I have no clue, I'm not a pilot, so please spare me from the LMAO/ROFL -comments. I have seen fighterjets recover from similar dives at airshows (and videos of non-recoveries), but I would presume a 767 is a bit of a different animal.



The 3000psi hydraulics would drive the elevators to a nose up position until the air loads exceeded their capacity which is fairly high. However, the descending trajectory requires lift and time to change. You may have seen these videos where the nose is up or level but the flight path is still down relative to ground—that’s what’s happening. The wings are “biting” the air but haven’t overcome the inertia. Given sufficient airspeed the wings will produce lift until they reach their ultimate failure loads. Effects are greater with more weight and reduced G limit on large aircraft.

GF
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:48 pm

itripreport wrote:
I know speculating is probably the least a non-expert in the field like me should be doing. But considering the fact that the third Body was taken longer to find, do we know if something in the lines of the FedEx 705 incident that happened years ago could be somewhat what happened here?


Oh, that’s because there’s nothing left to find.
 
santi319
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:41 pm

It reminds me of the FlyDubai crash that footage. Clouds were not as low though.
 
AviatorNav7
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:21 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHc6dtS-X1I
The latest CCTV footage of the crash
 
NIKV69
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:25 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
I am not in agreement it looks like they are trying to pull up before impact. I believe it’s just the angle of the video.


I just watched it and that is what I think. It didn't completely dive they were trying to pull it up.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:34 pm

yoshua16 wrote:
EstherLouise wrote:
I just remembered a 1000 foot drop in altitude (according to the pilot) on a CO 747 I was in on approach to IAH in Summer 1994.. Everything loose, including the flight attendants, hit the ceiling. All of the passengers that I could see were belted, as I recall. To this day, that was the only time death crossed my mind while flying. That drop took all of two seconds and I felt negative G's.... definitely. The weather that day was 100 degrees F, humid, and clear. I recall that because my suitcase full of 70 pounds of Cadbury chocolates melted while sitting on the tarmac for an hour at IAH.
Dropped a few times in a A319 flying home from Miami. We were at cruise and dropped. Death didnt cross my mind it was more like a roller coast ride for me. Would have had a great video of it if I didnt have a full and open can of Dr. Pepper in my hand.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


So people were hitting the ceiling?
-Dave


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PlanesNTrains
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:34 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
How many times has a lightning strike been mentioned? Resulting in sudden 100% complete power failure? No time to engage APU, no time to deploy RAT.


At least once someone commented that there wasn't lightening in the area. fwiw
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
yoshua16
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:45 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
yoshua16 wrote:
EstherLouise wrote:
I just remembered a 1000 foot drop in altitude (according to the pilot) on a CO 747 I was in on approach to IAH in Summer 1994.. Everything loose, including the flight attendants, hit the ceiling. All of the passengers that I could see were belted, as I recall. To this day, that was the only time death crossed my mind while flying. That drop took all of two seconds and I felt negative G's.... definitely. The weather that day was 100 degrees F, humid, and clear. I recall that because my suitcase full of 70 pounds of Cadbury chocolates melted while sitting on the tarmac for an hour at IAH.
Dropped a few times in a A319 flying home from Miami. We were at cruise and dropped. Death didnt cross my mind it was more like a roller coast ride for me. Would have had a great video of it if I didnt have a full and open can of Dr. Pepper in my hand.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


So people were hitting the ceiling?
Not that I saw but the guy who ran out the lava might have.

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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:14 pm

AviatorNav7 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHc6dtS-X1I
The latest CCTV footage of the crash


It does look like the aircraft was shallowing its descent. If only they had a few more seconds, they might have gotten out of it. That’s almost as eerie and devastating as watching the final seconds of United 175.

Last flown aircraft: A320 D-AIPS < A319 OE-LDD < A320 D-AIQA < DH8D OE-LGO < A320 HA-LWC < A320 HA-LWV < A320 SX-DVT < A320 SX-DVK < B733 LZ-BVU < E190 LZ-SOF < A320 D-AIUQ < DH8D OE-LGJ < A321 D-AIRN < A319 LZ-FBB
 
scramjetter
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:57 pm

I found a proposed airworthiness directive on the horizontal stabilizer of the 767. In the summary, it mentions possible loss of control for noncompliance.

https://www.federalregister.gov/d/05-20267

If stabilizer failure occurred I'm sure the NTSB will figure it out.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:27 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
How many times has a lightning strike been mentioned? Resulting in sudden 100% complete power failure? No time to engage APU, no time to deploy RAT.


At least once someone commented that there wasn't lightening in the area. fwiw

I had asked but looking at the latest video it doesnt look like lightning weather. Though lightning does strike much more frequently in Texas than out here in SoCal, and when I asked we were having our second thunderstorm of the year (none last year).
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:36 pm

scramjetter wrote:
I found a proposed airworthiness directive on the horizontal stabilizer of the 767. In the summary, it mentions possible loss of control for noncompliance.

https://www.federalregister.gov/d/05-20267

If stabilizer failure occurred I'm sure the NTSB will figure it out.


Discussed upthread. Any ADs would have been completed at P2F conversion.
 
scramjetter
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:48 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Discussed upthread. Any ADs would have been completed at P2F conversion.


I must have missed it, thanks!
 
DarkKnight5
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:19 am

I don’t know based on a 1.5 second video anyone could make an educated guess about whether they were attempting to pull up or not. It flashes by in less that a second and is traveling away from the camera. I think it’s impossible to make any sort of reasonable judgement based on the video.
 
orbital
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:24 am

DarkKnight5 wrote:
I don’t know based on a 1.5 second video anyone could make an educated guess about whether they were attempting to pull up or not. It flashes by in less that a second and is traveling away from the camera. I think it’s impossible to make any sort of reasonable judgement based on the video.


I think there is a lot of analysis that can be done on that video, but not by someone just eyeballing it (like myself). I am fairly certain that any video evidence will be studied carefully and from a mathematical standpoint (distance from impact, camera mounting angles) to establish whether it adds meaningful data to the investigation.

I know they will leave no stone unturned. It is excruciating to wait though.
 
CaptCoolHand
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:25 am

I think we need to be prepared for a non mechanical failure...
 
trnswrld
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:33 am

DarkKnight5 wrote:
I don’t know based on a 1.5 second video anyone could make an educated guess about whether they were attempting to pull up or not. It flashes by in less that a second and is traveling away from the camera. I think it’s impossible to make any sort of reasonable judgement based on the video.


Yeah I mean it’s a poor quality video, very quick, and definitely nothing definitive. Angle could have certainly played a roll here, but the best way to see atleast what I was seeing is the angle of the aircraft as it enters the screen, and then once again just before it hits the water. That tail is lower in reference to the rest of the fuselage before impact.
 
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HoboJoe
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:42 am

spacecadet wrote:
SeaKing4 wrote:
Even if it was half that 6187.5 litres is still a lot of fuel. So where is it.


Probably stuck in the mud.

If you're suggesting fuel starvation, running out of fuel does not cause airliners to drop out of the sky like a stone. Pilots are in fact trained on how to glide their aircraft, and every aircraft is designed to glide. The 767 has had fuel starvation incidents in the past, some of which are quite famous, and it's more than capable of gliding down safely.

Even if this plane ran out of fuel, that would not cause it to crash like this.


Not gonna glide too far from 6000 ft
 
Jgsushi
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:10 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
How many times has a lightning strike been mentioned? Resulting in sudden 100% complete power failure? No time to engage APU, no time to deploy RAT.


Aircraft, when properly trimmed, don't plummet in those circumstances. They glide.
Lmao the A220's engines (PW1500G) at low thrust levels sound like Chewbacca
 
NIKV69
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:12 am

dtw9 wrote:
DarkKnight5 wrote:
I don’t know based on a 1.5 second video anyone could make an educated guess about whether they were attempting to pull up or not. It flashes by in less that a second and is traveling away from the camera. I think it’s impossible to make any sort of reasonable judgement based on the video.



Because this is Airliners net. Where uneducated guesses are the norm.and everybody’s a crash investigator.


Your shortsighted comment not withstanding if you watch it full screen it sure looks to me that nose is coming up a little.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:26 am

dtw9 wrote:
DarkKnight5 wrote:
I don’t know based on a 1.5 second video anyone could make an educated guess about whether they were attempting to pull up or not. It flashes by in less that a second and is traveling away from the camera. I think it’s impossible to make any sort of reasonable judgement based on the video.



Because this is Airliners net. Where uneducated guesses are the norm.and everybody’s a crash investigator.


Agreed. Many people are responding with emotion rather than reason. Nothing has been ruled out and all possibilities are still on the table.
 
klm617
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:42 am

CaptCoolHand wrote:
I think we need to be prepared for a non mechanical failure...


I would tend to agree when I heard the NTSB investigator say everything is still on the table even criminal activity after reviewing the CVR
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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SuperGee
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:59 am

There seems to be some disagreement about the video and I'm sure the NTSB has the same questions. Would info from the FDR show definitively whether they were trying to pull out of that dive or not?
Last edited by SuperGee on Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Lrockeagle
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:00 am

HoboJoe wrote:
spacecadet wrote:
SeaKing4 wrote:
Even if it was half that 6187.5 litres is still a lot of fuel. So where is it.


Probably stuck in the mud.

If you're suggesting fuel starvation, running out of fuel does not cause airliners to drop out of the sky like a stone. Pilots are in fact trained on how to glide their aircraft, and every aircraft is designed to glide. The 767 has had fuel starvation incidents in the past, some of which are quite famous, and it's more than capable of gliding down safely.

Even if this plane ran out of fuel, that would not cause it to crash like this.


Not gonna glide too far from 6000 ft

Bout twice as far as Sully did. Idk the glide ratio on a 76 but it’s probably at least 8-1. That would be 9 miles of glide. (Statute miles, I know some of you will argue my math)

Edit: Google says 12:1 per Gimli. So 13.6 miles of glide. May not get you to the airport but it’ll help find somewhere flat to set down, and Houston has a whole lot of flat
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
alggag
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:06 am

Lrockeagle wrote:
HoboJoe wrote:
spacecadet wrote:

Probably stuck in the mud.

If you're suggesting fuel starvation, running out of fuel does not cause airliners to drop out of the sky like a stone. Pilots are in fact trained on how to glide their aircraft, and every aircraft is designed to glide. The 767 has had fuel starvation incidents in the past, some of which are quite famous, and it's more than capable of gliding down safely.

Even if this plane ran out of fuel, that would not cause it to crash like this.


Not gonna glide too far from 6000 ft

Bout twice as far as Sully did. Idk the glide ratio on a 76 but it’s probably at least 8-1. That would be 9 miles of glide. (Statute miles, I know some of you will argue my math)

Edit: Google says 12:1 per Gimli. So 13.6 miles of glide. May not get you to the airport but it’ll help find somewhere flat to set down, and Houston has a whole lot of flat


Flat land, swamps, even some GA airports would have been in range for a theoretical dead stick landing.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:15 am

SuperGee wrote:
There seems to be some disagreement about the video and I'm sure the NTSB has the same questions. Would info from the FDR show definitively whether they were trying to pull out of that dive or not?


Yes. It would show the position of the yoke.

(Like it did in the Ameristar accident report that was just released. Kudos to that crew, BTW, because the NTSB couldn't have been more-complimentary than it was about their performance. And one realizes there that if the PM had tried to reverse the decision of the PF to abort, it would have been catastrophe. The PF was the captain, but the right-seat was a check airman (the chief pilot) doing differences training and thus technically the PIC. Company policy says that the captain is the sole person with discretion to abort, and although the right-seater verbally-objected to the abort above V1, he stayed in his lane, fell in line with the captain, and got on the brakes. The captain had 14,000+ hours in the air, much of it in DC9s, compared to 9000 for the check/chief pilot, which may have affected his trust level of the captain, thank goodness. NTSB says that if they had waited even a couple more seconds to abort, they all would likely have been killed. So good CRM, smart performance of the experienced captain in something like 3 seconds to realize this thing wasn't going to fly and that this was one of the very few times that you abort above V1.) (This was an MD80 and thus the differences training. NTSB says that the captain pulled the yoke, expected a couple of seconds for the nose to come up and when it didn't pulled back not all the way but way further than he knew it should take to get the nose up and when it didn't move knew instinctively that the thing wasn't going to fly and immediately just said "abort". The check pilot had immediately said, "(expletive) Don't abort above V1 like that... (expletive)", and started to reach over, but the captain had already pulled back to idle and/so he did nothing but back up the captain. The captain then responded, "It wasn't flying." And he was right -- it wouldn't have flown. He later said that it "felt like it had a stack of bricks on the nose". That instinctive-response born of experience in type saved them.)
Last edited by wjcandee on Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:31 am

Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U
© 2019. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
TMccrury
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:01 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U


That is amazing.
 
GSOflyerDL
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:16 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U



Holy mackerel.
DL Diamond Medallion 360
 
bdepalo
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:32 am

That No1 engine is significantly more damaged than the No2. Must not have came down completely level or there was some in air damage
 
bob606
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:45 am

alggag wrote:
Lrockeagle wrote:
HoboJoe wrote:

Not gonna glide too far from 6000 ft

Bout twice as far as Sully did. Idk the glide ratio on a 76 but it’s probably at least 8-1. That would be 9 miles of glide. (Statute miles, I know some of you will argue my math)

Edit: Google says 12:1 per Gimli. So 13.6 miles of glide. May not get you to the airport but it’ll help find somewhere flat to set down, and Houston has a whole lot of flat


Flat land, swamps, even some GA airports would have been in range for a theoretical dead stick landing.


Georgia would be a bit too far I think.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:49 am

bob606 wrote:
alggag wrote:
Lrockeagle wrote:
Bout twice as far as Sully did. Idk the glide ratio on a 76 but it’s probably at least 8-1. That would be 9 miles of glide. (Statute miles, I know some of you will argue my math)

Edit: Google says 12:1 per Gimli. So 13.6 miles of glide. May not get you to the airport but it’ll help find somewhere flat to set down, and Houston has a whole lot of flat


Flat land, swamps, even some GA airports would have been in range for a theoretical dead stick landing.


Georgia would be a bit too far I think.


GA = General Aviation
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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SuperGee
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:36 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U


Starting at about 3:15 into this video, the wreckage of a row of windows of the type you would see in a passenger plane is shown. I've seen these windows in other photos of the wreckage as well. In the video of the takeoff from Miami however (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3gzVdY3-To), I can see no windows anywhere on the aircraft other than the cockpit windows. What am I missing?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:38 am

SuperGee wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U


Starting at about 3:15 into this video, the wreckage of a row of windows of the type you would see in a passenger plane is shown. I've seen these windows in other photos of the wreckage as well. In the video of the takeoff from Miami however (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3gzVdY3-To), I can see no windows anywhere on the aircraft other than the cockpit windows. What am I missing?


Well it used to be a passenger jet...
 
crownvic
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:48 am

SuperGee wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U


Starting at about 3:15 into this video, the wreckage of a row of windows of the type you would see in a passenger plane is shown. I've seen these windows in other photos of the wreckage as well. In the video of the takeoff from Miami however (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3gzVdY3-To), I can see no windows anywhere on the aircraft other than the cockpit windows. What am I missing?


Window plugs are used on most passenger P2F converted aircraft. These plugs can pop out in a high impact crash.
 
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SuperGee
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 9:42 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:16 am

crownvic wrote:
SuperGee wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U


Starting at about 3:15 into this video, the wreckage of a row of windows of the type you would see in a passenger plane is shown. I've seen these windows in other photos of the wreckage as well. In the video of the takeoff from Miami however (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3gzVdY3-To), I can see no windows anywhere on the aircraft other than the cockpit windows. What am I missing?


Window plugs are used on most passenger P2F converted aircraft. These plugs can pop out in a high impact crash.


Thank you.
 
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LIJet
Posts: 17
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Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:25 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U
"This is the nose" ... No, those are cargo pallets and / or containers.
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 1969
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:42 am

bdepalo wrote:
That No1 engine is significantly more damaged than the No2. Must not have came down completely level or there was some in air damage


In the video of the plane making impact you can see the port side made contact with the ground/water first.
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:05 am

Jouhou wrote:
N126DL wrote:
https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/1100183258539663360

I've stared at this piece of the wreckage for a good 10 clock minutes trying to figure out what part of the airplane it is from. Which 767 driver here can shed some light?


After nerding out on reading about 767 flight control systems I found something that might be it: flap power drive unit with most of it torn off but gearbox assy remaining, on a chunk of wheel well structure.

Probably wrong but was excited to see something that might be a "maybe"


aerodynamic formed surface with sturdy structure into the items "neighborhood".
engine pieces? stator behind the fan connecting fan shroud (upper end) and core engine ( lower end on the ground )? ( 4..6 times around )
Murphy is an optimist
 
OlafW
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:44 am

bdepalo wrote:
That No1 engine is significantly more damaged than the No2. Must not have came down completely level or there was some in air damage

Might just as well be that one of them hit softer ground and the other one a more rigid section of soil or a rock
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:06 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
How many times has a lightning strike been mentioned? Resulting in sudden 100% complete power failure? No time to engage APU, no time to deploy RAT.


RAT is an automatic deploy. The 767 is not FBW.
Murphy is an optimist
 
italie
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:18 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:24 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U


The angles on whats left of the fan blades seems to indicate at least one of those engines impacted while still spinning.
 
jetskipper
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 1:50 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:04 pm

italie wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U


The angles on whats left of the fan blades seems to indicate at least one of those engines impacted while still spinning.


From most eyewitness accounts, people reported at least one engine running. Even if both engines failed the odds of both engines ceasing would be extremely rare. With over 300 knots of indicated airspeed, the engines would be windmilling at a fairly high RPM.
 
pugman211
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:32 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U



At 4:28 in the video, you can see the jackscrew for the tailplane (I could be wrong though). It's at it's lowest/highest point on the screw? Does that look about right?

If the NTSB suspected mechanical failure, would they really let journalists in the facility where they are storing the recovered parts?

Edited because of incorrect time stamp quoted
 
italie
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:18 am

Re: Atlas Air 3591 Down in Trinity Bay, Texas

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:37 pm

jetskipper wrote:
italie wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Video of the wreckage found so far:
https://youtu.be/-G-KfcFQg9U


The angles on whats left of the fan blades seems to indicate at least one of those engines impacted while still spinning.


From most eyewitness accounts, people reported at least one engine running. Even if both engines failed the odds of both engines ceasing would be extremely rare. With over 300 knots of indicated airspeed, the engines would be windmilling at a fairly high RPM.


Agreed. My comment was little more than pointing out the obvious.

I was on a train of though about United 232 that spurred it. (I realize that was a tri motor, but it got me thinking)

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