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bomber996
Topic Author
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:24 pm

What's going on with WN at MDW this morning? I flew out of MCI to DAL this morning at saw the first few flights from both to MDW are canceled. Looking on flightaware there is only ONE inbound WN flight to MDW and it's coming from PUJ. Is this MX related? There does not appear to be any significant weather event.

If this is a duplicate please delete, but I saw nothing else posted.

Thanks!

Peace :box:
"We've recently upped our standards, so up yours." - Federal Aviation Administration
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:26 pm

It's extremely windy in Chicago today. That might be part of the issue.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
bomber996
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Posts: 522
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Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:32 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
It's extremely windy in Chicago today. That might be part of the issue.


DL and others are running normal operations into MDW. ORD seems to be running fine. Take a look here at MDW's flight page. https://www.flychicago.com/midway/myfli ... fault.aspx A ton of red.

I would not want to be flying through MDW today!

Peace :box:
"We've recently upped our standards, so up yours." - Federal Aviation Administration
 
ytib
Posts: 618
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Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:52 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
It's extremely windy in Chicago today. That might be part of the issue.


Just a little wind...

KMDW 241353Z 28027G46KT 10SM BKN026 OVC031 01/M03 A2944 RMK AO2 PK WND 30046/1348 SLP975 T00111033 $
318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2093
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:52 pm

bomber996 wrote:
What's going on with WN at MDW this morning? I flew out of MCI to DAL this morning at saw the first few flights from both to MDW are canceled. Looking on flightaware there is only ONE inbound WN flight to MDW and it's coming from PUJ. Is this MX related? There does not appear to be any significant weather event.

If this is a duplicate please delete, but I saw nothing else posted.

Thanks!

Peace :box:

MDW was fogged in last night followed by a few line of thunderstorms. Caused WN to cancel most of the RON.
It turned into a Windy,ICY,Snow event into this morning.
Now it's 27 gusting to 60mph.
Sunday morning canceled flights is a repercussion of last nights events.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Runway28L
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Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:45 pm

Huge winds expected for large portions of the Midwest and East Coast today. Not the best day for flying.
https://weather.com/storms/winter/video ... orm-quiana

Starting to see AA cancel numerous regionals out of CLT, DCA, and PHL.
 
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Polot
Posts: 11075
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Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:01 pm

bomber996 wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
It's extremely windy in Chicago today. That might be part of the issue.


DL and others are running normal operations into MDW.

Not really saying much, considering how few non WN flights there are into MDW.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8793
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:49 pm

Southwest does a lot of things right but the amount of rationalization that has been going on over flight cancellations has just been ridiculous among the WN fanbois. Look at the number of cancellations in the last five days by WN compared to AA/DL/UA (and normalize for daily flight count if you want). It's like there's weather at MDW but not ORD; at HOU but not IAH; at ATL (but only on WN's side of the airport). If you can't accept objective fact that WN is an operational crap-storm there's just no intellectual integrity. You don't need to like; you don't need to be proud of it, but it's fact.

From FlightAware:

today, as a 12:45pm Eastern
WN, 191 cancellations
AA, 64
United, 18
Delta, 2

Saturday
WN, 164
UA, 40
AA, 15
DL, 5

Friday
WN, 109
AA, 32
UA, 28
DL, 5
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:52 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Southwest does a lot of things right but the amount of rationalization that has been going on over flight cancellations has just been ridiculous among the WN fanbois. Look at the number of cancellations in the last five days by WN compared to AA/DL/UA (and normalize for daily flight count if you want). It's like there's weather at MDW but not ORD; at HOU but not IAH; at ATL (but only on WN's side of the airport). If you can't accept objective fact that WN is an operational crap-storm there's just no intellectual integrity. You don't need to like; you don't need to be proud of it, but it's fact.

From FlightAware:

today, as a 12:45pm Eastern
WN, 191 cancellations
AA, 64
United, 18
Delta, 2

Saturday
WN, 164
UA, 40
AA, 15
DL, 5

Friday
WN, 109
AA, 32
UA, 28
DL, 5


I think the bigger news is that Delta actually canceled flights. And that’s a complement to Delta.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
747Whale
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:41 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:56 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Southwest does a lot of things right but the amount of rationalization that has been going on over flight cancellations has just been ridiculous among the WN fanbois. Look at the number of cancellations in the last five days by WN compared to AA/DL/UA (and normalize for daily flight count if you want). It's like there's weather at MDW but not ORD; at HOU but not IAH; at ATL (but only on WN's side of the airport). If you can't accept objective fact that WN is an operational crap-storm there's just no intellectual integrity. You don't need to like; you don't need to be proud of it, but it's fact.


Operational expertise from the internet.

You're really going to point fingers at a safety call?

I wouldn't have accepted a departure in the 60 knot wind, either.

Rather than making the argument that anyone who disagrees with you has no "intellectual integrity," perhaps you might recognize that some have a bit more experience and training and qualification than you, and might see it a bit differently. You're quoting numbers off "flight aware," which is much like the wikipedia of airplane watching. It doesn't really give a lot of insight into the procedures, policies, safety protocols, or decisions made at any level, and short of sure knowledge for the reason behind cancellations or delays, you stand a very high probability of making a false attribution.

I've made the decision to refuse to fly when others are flying and frankly, the fact that others chose to fly in unsafe conditions didn't phase me a bit. The final authority rests in the cockpit.

Do you know the reason that these flights were canceled or delayed, or their status, beyond what you saw on flightaware? I don't, and accordingly, won't speculate. It would be a lack of intellectual integrity.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1959
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Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:22 pm

Polot wrote:
bomber996 wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
It's extremely windy in Chicago today. That might be part of the issue.


DL and others are running normal operations into MDW.

Not really saying much, considering how few non WN flights there are into MDW.

Dishonesty at its best:
- when DL is running a (almost) normal schedule at MSP during polar colds earlier this year when everybody else cancels most of their flights, it's because DL has a high presence at MSP;
- when DL is running a (almost) normal schedule in MDW today during windy times when WN cancels a lot of their flights, it's because DL has a very low presence at MDW.

So, DL is a good performer at MSP during polar colds because they have a high presence and at MDW during high winds because they have a low presence? Gimme a break...
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 957
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Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:30 pm

Chicago has had some serious weather issues lately. My cousin flew into ORD yesterday and was seriously bounced around in a 737, more so in the Embraer she flew out on. Granted, that was ORD, not MDW, but they aren't that far away. Just weather and dispatchers and pilots making the safety related call to not fly in those conditions, nothing more.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14735
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:46 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Southwest does a lot of things right but the amount of rationalization that has been going on over flight cancellations has just been ridiculous among the WN fanbois. Look at the number of cancellations in the last five days by WN compared to AA/DL/UA (and normalize for daily flight count if you want). It's like there's weather at MDW but not ORD; at HOU but not IAH; at ATL (but only on WN's side of the airport). If you can't accept objective fact that WN is an operational crap-storm there's just no intellectual integrity. You don't need to like; you don't need to be proud of it, but it's fact.


To be fair, winds between 250 and 280 - what Chicago is seeing today - are much more disruptive at MDW than at ORD because of runway orientation and to some degree runway length. (By the same token, if the winds were of a similar magnitude but at 330, ORD would be having a harder time.)

It might be instructive to take a look at DAL and DFW during the northwest wind event yesterday. I expect WN was minimally affected because DAL's runways face straight into that wind.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
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Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:08 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Southwest does a lot of things right but the amount of rationalization that has been going on over flight cancellations has just been ridiculous among the WN fanbois. Look at the number of cancellations in the last five days by WN compared to AA/DL/UA (and normalize for daily flight count if you want). It's like there's weather at MDW but not ORD; at HOU but not IAH; at ATL (but only on WN's side of the airport). If you can't accept objective fact that WN is an operational crap-storm there's just no intellectual integrity. You don't need to like; you don't need to be proud of it, but it's fact.


To be fair, winds between 250 and 280 - what Chicago is seeing today - are much more disruptive at MDW than at ORD because of runway orientation and to some degree runway length. (By the same token, if the winds were of a similar magnitude but at 330, ORD would be having a harder time.)

It might be instructive to take a look at DAL and DFW during the northwest wind event yesterday. I expect WN was minimally affected because DAL's runways face straight into that wind.


The wind was not outside the crosswind limits for a 737 at MDW today. But blame the wind.......
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14735
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:11 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Southwest does a lot of things right but the amount of rationalization that has been going on over flight cancellations has just been ridiculous among the WN fanbois. Look at the number of cancellations in the last five days by WN compared to AA/DL/UA (and normalize for daily flight count if you want). It's like there's weather at MDW but not ORD; at HOU but not IAH; at ATL (but only on WN's side of the airport). If you can't accept objective fact that WN is an operational crap-storm there's just no intellectual integrity. You don't need to like; you don't need to be proud of it, but it's fact.


To be fair, winds between 250 and 280 - what Chicago is seeing today - are much more disruptive at MDW than at ORD because of runway orientation and to some degree runway length. (By the same token, if the winds were of a similar magnitude but at 330, ORD would be having a harder time.)

It might be instructive to take a look at DAL and DFW during the northwest wind event yesterday. I expect WN was minimally affected because DAL's runways face straight into that wind.


The wind was not outside the crosswind limits for a 737 at MDW today. But blame the wind.......


What are WN’s crosswind limits?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:30 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Southwest does a lot of things right but the amount of rationalization that has been going on over flight cancellations has just been ridiculous among the WN fanbois. Look at the number of cancellations in the last five days by WN compared to AA/DL/UA (and normalize for daily flight count if you want). It's like there's weather at MDW but not ORD; at HOU but not IAH; at ATL (but only on WN's side of the airport). If you can't accept objective fact that WN is an operational crap-storm there's just no intellectual integrity. You don't need to like; you don't need to be proud of it, but it's fact.

From FlightAware:

today, as a 12:45pm Eastern
WN, 191 cancellations
AA, 64
United, 18
Delta, 2

Saturday
WN, 164
UA, 40
AA, 15
DL, 5

Friday
WN, 109
AA, 32
UA, 28
DL, 5


Since WN flies all of their own flights, lets include the regionals of the mainlines in their statistics... also, below are the numbers for cancellations at ORD vs MDW and some of the others. These numbers are from your same source, flightaware.com

Envoy Air 170
PSA Airlines 115
Skywest 91
Piedmont 87
Endeavor 55
ExpressJet 29
Republic 28
Air Wisconsin 24
Mesa 24
TransStates 19


ORD has had 125 cancellations
MDW has had 57
DTW 54
CLT 50
PHL 48
DFW 42
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:58 pm

The convenience of canceling the regional rather than mainline. But blame WN.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:07 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I think the bigger news is that Delta actually canceled flights. And that’s a complement to Delta.


Delta Connection has nearly 200 cancellations today. But by all means let’s compliment Delta for only cancelling two flights.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:47 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

To be fair, winds between 250 and 280 - what Chicago is seeing today - are much more disruptive at MDW than at ORD because of runway orientation and to some degree runway length. (By the same token, if the winds were of a similar magnitude but at 330, ORD would be having a harder time.)

It might be instructive to take a look at DAL and DFW during the northwest wind event yesterday. I expect WN was minimally affected because DAL's runways face straight into that wind.


The wind was not outside the crosswind limits for a 737 at MDW today. But blame the wind.......


What are WN’s crosswind limits?


35kts of direct crosswind. The wind was never at 90 degrees to the runways at MDW.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14735
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:50 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

The wind was not outside the crosswind limits for a 737 at MDW today. But blame the wind.......


What are WN’s crosswind limits?


35kts of direct crosswind. The wind was never at 90 degrees to the runways at MDW.


Thanks. I wasn’t aware that you had flown for them.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FL470
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:41 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:59 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

The wind was not outside the crosswind limits for a 737 at MDW today. But blame the wind.......


What are WN’s crosswind limits?


35kts of direct crosswind. The wind was never at 90 degrees to the runways at MDW.



You do realize how crosswinds are calculated, right? Using the same winds earlier in the thread, with gusts to 46, that is EXACTLY a 35 knot crosswind. Right at the limit and I know gusts were higher because I pulled a ORD ATIS while working today and it was 47 so yes, that does exceed the limit.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:06 am

FL470 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What are WN’s crosswind limits?


35kts of direct crosswind. The wind was never at 90 degrees to the runways at MDW.



You do realize how crosswinds are calculated, right? Using the same winds earlier in the thread, with gusts to 46, that is EXACTLY a 35 knot crosswind. Right at the limit and I know gusts were higher because I pulled a ORD ATIS while working today and it was 47 so yes, that does exceed the limit.


Yes I do know the gust are accounted for. However the wind was close enough to either 31 or 22 for operations today with enough of a headwind component versus crosswind component. Also the winds were under 40kts for most of the day. With the current winds of [email protected] that is 32kt crosswind for the 22’s and 24kts for the 31’s.

When does MDW use ORD winds for their operation in your example? There is no shortage of excuses for WN’s poor performance.
Last edited by mcdu on Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:09 am

FL470 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What are WN’s crosswind limits?


35kts of direct crosswind. The wind was never at 90 degrees to the runways at MDW.



You do realize how crosswinds are calculated, right? Using the same winds earlier in the thread, with gusts to 46, that is EXACTLY a 35 knot crosswind. Right at the limit and I know gusts were higher because I pulled a ORD ATIS while working today and it was 47 so yes, that does exceed the limit.


He’s a pilot for UA so I’d be alarmed if he doesn’t. But then, why would he say something different in this thread? Weird....
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14735
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:12 am

mcdu wrote:
FL470 wrote:
mcdu wrote:

35kts of direct crosswind. The wind was never at 90 degrees to the runways at MDW.



You do realize how crosswinds are calculated, right? Using the same winds earlier in the thread, with gusts to 46, that is EXACTLY a 35 knot crosswind. Right at the limit and I know gusts were higher because I pulled a ORD ATIS while working today and it was 47 so yes, that does exceed the limit.


Yes I do know the gust are accounted for. However the wind was close enough to either 31 or 22 for operations today with enough of a headwind component versus crosswind component. Also the winds were under 40kts for most of the day.

When does MDW use ORD winds for their operation in your example? There is no shortage of excuses for WN’s poor performance.


Yeah, but your missing the fact that they were not from a consistent direction. They can’t use 22L for 260 winds (and maybe even 250, though MDW did not report 250) and then switch to 31C for 270 and 280 and then switch back when it moves more southerly. There was a fair amount of variation.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:22 am

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
FL470 wrote:


You do realize how crosswinds are calculated, right? Using the same winds earlier in the thread, with gusts to 46, that is EXACTLY a 35 knot crosswind. Right at the limit and I know gusts were higher because I pulled a ORD ATIS while working today and it was 47 so yes, that does exceed the limit.


Yes I do know the gust are accounted for. However the wind was close enough to either 31 or 22 for operations today with enough of a headwind component versus crosswind component. Also the winds were under 40kts for most of the day.

When does MDW use ORD winds for their operation in your example? There is no shortage of excuses for WN’s poor performance.


Yeah, but your missing the fact that they were not from a consistent direction. They can’t use 22L for 260 winds (and maybe even 250, though MDW did not report 250) and then switch to 31C for 270 and 280 and then switch back when it moves more southerly. There was a fair amount of variation.


It was still under the max crosswind for operations contrary to the other poster report. WN has that airport basically all to itself and yet it still couldn’t operate their schedule. With the 30% OT performance on a daily basis WN doesn’t seem to mind running flights really late. What must happen for them to cancel?
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:24 am

Even the CEO is willing to admit their are problems with the operation. When will the people of a.net?

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/southwest-airlines/2019/02/23/southwest-ceo-urges-employees-hang-tumultuous-past-weeks
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:28 am

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

Yes I do know the gust are accounted for. However the wind was close enough to either 31 or 22 for operations today with enough of a headwind component versus crosswind component. Also the winds were under 40kts for most of the day.

When does MDW use ORD winds for their operation in your example? There is no shortage of excuses for WN’s poor performance.


Yeah, but your missing the fact that they were not from a consistent direction. They can’t use 22L for 260 winds (and maybe even 250, though MDW did not report 250) and then switch to 31C for 270 and 280 and then switch back when it moves more southerly. There was a fair amount of variation.


It was still under the max crosswind for operations contrary to the other poster report. WN has that airport basically all to itself and yet it still couldn’t operate their schedule. With the 30% OT performance on a daily basis WN doesn’t seem to mind running flights really late. What must happen for them to cancel?


Mr. United, you criticize them in one thread for not being safe enough, then in another thread for being too safe? I can only assume that United would say crosswinds-be-damned.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
TUSDawg23
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 2:43 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:53 am

MCDU has dedicated his life to posting any negative WN news he can find on this forum so I choose to ignore him.

WN has definitely had its fair share of issues operationally over the past few months, but I'm not sure I would have done things any differently in terms of cancelling flights out of MDW because of the winds that are this bad. There is very little margin of error for landing a fully loaded 737 at MDW to begin with and MDW doesn't have the luxury of having 7 different runways that are at least 7500 ft or longer that ORD does.
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:11 am

TUSDawg23 wrote:
MCDU has dedicated his life to posting any negative WN news he can find on this forum so I choose to ignore him.

WN has definitely had its fair share of issues operationally over the past few months, but I'm not sure I would have done things any differently in terms of cancelling flights out of MDW because of the winds that are this bad. There is very little margin of error for landing a fully loaded 737 at MDW to begin with and MDW doesn't have the luxury of having 7 different runways that are at least 7500 ft or longer that ORD does.


Negative to WN, DY, WW, etc., etc.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:25 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Yeah, but your missing the fact that they were not from a consistent direction. They can’t use 22L for 260 winds (and maybe even 250, though MDW did not report 250) and then switch to 31C for 270 and 280 and then switch back when it moves more southerly. There was a fair amount of variation.


It was still under the max crosswind for operations contrary to the other poster report. WN has that airport basically all to itself and yet it still couldn’t operate their schedule. With the 30% OT performance on a daily basis WN doesn’t seem to mind running flights really late. What must happen for them to cancel?


Mr. United, you criticize them in one thread for not being safe enough, then in another thread for being too safe? I can only assume that United would say crosswinds-be-damned.


I am not Mr. United and this thread is not about United so if you want to discuss United please start the thread and we can discuss that information there. Haven’t you had enough post deleted for going off topic?

WN didn’t cancel because of winds. That is the excuse that is being used. They are an operational disaster and the CEO himself admits that fact. They didn’t have any problem with being lenient with the limits when landing in BUR and winding up in the overrun. So all the other carriers at ORD were okay operating below max wind limits yet today WN decides to cancel flights for winds below the limits of the airplane? That is a novel way to conduct business and it certainly hasn’t been the way WN has operated prior to today.

What will be excuse tomorrow for when WN is the leader in the clubhouse with the most cancels? What will they be enduring weather wise that the rest of the airlines won’t be tomorrow?
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:28 am

TUSDawg23 wrote:
MCDU has dedicated his life to posting any negative WN news he can find on this forum so I choose to ignore him.

WN has definitely had its fair share of issues operationally over the past few months, but I'm not sure I would have done things any differently in terms of cancelling flights out of MDW because of the winds that are this bad. There is very little margin of error for landing a fully loaded 737 at MDW to begin with and MDW doesn't have the luxury of having 7 different runways that are at least 7500 ft or longer that ORD does.


Per Flightaware, MDW had 60 cancellations today. DTW had 66 even with it's three 10,000+ ft runways.

Per Flightaware, WN had 193 cancellations today. Skywest (124), Endeavor (59), Republic (29), and GoJet (11) combined for 223 cancellations.

What do DTW, Skywest, Endeavor, Republic, and GoJet have in common?
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:44 am

mcdu wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
mcdu wrote:

It was still under the max crosswind for operations contrary to the other poster report. WN has that airport basically all to itself and yet it still couldn’t operate their schedule. With the 30% OT performance on a daily basis WN doesn’t seem to mind running flights really late. What must happen for them to cancel?


Mr. United, you criticize them in one thread for not being safe enough, then in another thread for being too safe? I can only assume that United would say crosswinds-be-damned.


I am not Mr. United and this thread is not about United so if you want to discuss United please start the thread and we can discuss that information there. Haven’t you had enough post deleted for going off topic?

WN didn’t cancel because of winds. That is the excuse that is being used. They are an operational disaster and the CEO himself admits that fact. They didn’t have any problem with being lenient with the limits when landing in BUR and winding up in the overrun. So all the other carriers at ORD were okay operating below max wind limits yet today WN decides to cancel flights for winds below the limits of the airplane? That is a novel way to conduct business and it certainly hasn’t been the way WN has operated prior to today.

What will be excuse tomorrow for when WN is the leader in the clubhouse with the most cancels? What will they be enduring weather wise that the rest of the airlines won’t be tomorrow?


It’s not off-topic - you are employed by UA and their ops were compared in this thread.

BUR? Off topic (ironic).

A list of literally hundreds of flights canceled in the city by a variety of airlines was given yet you call out WN as if they live in a vacuum. You are a pilot yet criticize them for not flying in max winds. Why do you have s problem if WN (and UA DL AA OO etc etc etc) cancel flights in inclement weather? Would you as a pilot accept such criticism? I would think you’d support the pilots and ops folks of these airlines when they make that call?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
bob75013
Posts: 1024
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:45 am

FL470 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What are WN’s crosswind limits?


35kts of direct crosswind. The wind was never at 90 degrees to the runways at MDW.



You do realize how crosswinds are calculated, right? Using the same winds earlier in the thread, with gusts to 46, that is EXACTLY a 35 knot crosswind. Right at the limit and I know gusts were higher because I pulled a ORD ATIS while working today and it was 47 so yes, that does exceed the limit.


Now, now, don't even bother to provide the WN hater with facts...
 
bob75013
Posts: 1024
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:55 am

bomber996 wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
It's extremely windy in Chicago today. That might be part of the issue.


DL and others are running normal operations into MDW. ORD seems to be running fine. Take a look here at MDW's flight page. https://www.flychicago.com/midway/myfli ... fault.aspx A ton of red.

I would not want to be flying through MDW today!

Peace :box:


ORD is taking this harder than MDW, so ORD is not running fine.

As of almost 11 pm, there were 266 cancellations at ORD and 106 at MDW today, but by the time most of you use the link, it'll probably already be tomorrow.

https://www.flychicago.com/business/med ... fault.aspx
 
FL470
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:41 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:35 am

mcdu wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
mcdu wrote:

It was still under the max crosswind for operations contrary to the other poster report. WN has that airport basically all to itself and yet it still couldn’t operate their schedule. With the 30% OT performance on a daily basis WN doesn’t seem to mind running flights really late. What must happen for them to cancel?


Mr. United, you criticize them in one thread for not being safe enough, then in another thread for being too safe? I can only assume that United would say crosswinds-be-damned.


I am not Mr. United and this thread is not about United so if you want to discuss United please start the thread and we can discuss that information there. Haven’t you had enough post deleted for going off topic?

WN didn’t cancel because of winds. That is the excuse that is being used. They are an operational disaster and the CEO himself admits that fact. They didn’t have any problem with being lenient with the limits when landing in BUR and winding up in the overrun. So all the other carriers at ORD were okay operating below max wind limits yet today WN decides to cancel flights for winds below the limits of the airplane? That is a novel way to conduct business and it certainly hasn’t been the way WN has operated prior to today.

What will be excuse tomorrow for when WN is the leader in the clubhouse with the most cancels? What will they be enduring weather wise that the rest of the airlines won’t be tomorrow?



You definitely are not a pilot for UA otherwise you would realize that ORDs runways are more aligned into the wind that the region had yesterday than MDW, thus creating more issues at MDW. I am not downplaying that WN is having some operational issues right now - I agree that they are but your comparison of ORD vs MDW is missing a key component - they are not the same airport and have different operational challenges.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:19 pm

bob75013 wrote:
bomber996 wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
It's extremely windy in Chicago today. That might be part of the issue.


DL and others are running normal operations into MDW. ORD seems to be running fine. Take a look here at MDW's flight page. https://www.flychicago.com/midway/myfli ... fault.aspx A ton of red.

I would not want to be flying through MDW today!

Peace :box:


ORD is taking this harder than MDW, so ORD is not running fine.

As of almost 11 pm, there were 266 cancellations at ORD and 106 at MDW today, but by the time most of you use the link, it'll probably already be tomorrow.

https://www.flychicago.com/business/med ... fault.aspx


ORD has two major carriers with hubs there and lots of hourly service to the east coast airports. Which happened to have severe flow delays yesterday (and today) for weather. That accounted for a large portion of the delays. Does WN have hourly service to LGA EWR DCA PHL BOS JFK from MDW?
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:34 pm

FL470 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Mr. United, you criticize them in one thread for not being safe enough, then in another thread for being too safe? I can only assume that United would say crosswinds-be-damned.


I am not Mr. United and this thread is not about United so if you want to discuss United please start the thread and we can discuss that information there. Haven’t you had enough post deleted for going off topic?

WN didn’t cancel because of winds. That is the excuse that is being used. They are an operational disaster and the CEO himself admits that fact. They didn’t have any problem with being lenient with the limits when landing in BUR and winding up in the overrun. So all the other carriers at ORD were okay operating below max wind limits yet today WN decides to cancel flights for winds below the limits of the airplane? That is a novel way to conduct business and it certainly hasn’t been the way WN has operated prior to today.

What will be excuse tomorrow for when WN is the leader in the clubhouse with the most cancels? What will they be enduring weather wise that the rest of the airlines won’t be tomorrow?



You definitely are not a pilot for UA otherwise you would realize that ORDs runways are more aligned into the wind that the region had yesterday than MDW, thus creating more issues at MDW. I am not downplaying that WN is having some operational issues right now - I agree that they are but your comparison of ORD vs MDW is missing a key component - they are not the same airport and have different operational challenges.


Did you notice I provided the crosswind component. That is what governs the limits. The runway doesn’t have to face directly into the wind. It’s all about the component.

I’m sure there are those that listen to ATC. I wonder how many WN pilots refusing to takeoff or land caused the cancels at MDW yesterday. Anyone hear a WN pilot tell ATC they weren’t accepting a takeoff or landing clearance due to the wind?
 
bob75013
Posts: 1024
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:39 pm

Max wind gusts at MDW yesterday were at 61 MPH -- according to WGN TV weather.

That exceeds WN's max crosswind thresh hold.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:30 pm

FL470 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Mr. United, you criticize them in one thread for not being safe enough, then in another thread for being too safe? I can only assume that United would say crosswinds-be-damned.


I am not Mr. United and this thread is not about United so if you want to discuss United please start the thread and we can discuss that information there. Haven’t you had enough post deleted for going off topic?

WN didn’t cancel because of winds. That is the excuse that is being used. They are an operational disaster and the CEO himself admits that fact. They didn’t have any problem with being lenient with the limits when landing in BUR and winding up in the overrun. So all the other carriers at ORD were okay operating below max wind limits yet today WN decides to cancel flights for winds below the limits of the airplane? That is a novel way to conduct business and it certainly hasn’t been the way WN has operated prior to today.

What will be excuse tomorrow for when WN is the leader in the clubhouse with the most cancels? What will they be enduring weather wise that the rest of the airlines won’t be tomorrow?



You definitely are not a pilot for UA otherwise you would realize that ORDs runways are more aligned into the wind that the region had yesterday than MDW, thus creating more issues at MDW. I am not downplaying that WN is having some operational issues right now - I agree that they are but your comparison of ORD vs MDW is missing a key component - they are not the same airport and have different operational challenges.


I think the issue is that most of us can separate a broader issue (operational issues) from one-off events (MDW/ORD weather issues). This thread was about MDW yesterday morning - pretty simple. Others posted the big picture which included nasty weather, runway configurations, mass cancellations at the other main Chicago airport, etc.

However, there appears to be a mission and a narrative that is being pushed, so all things must fit into it. Personal vendettas make it challenging to discuss the topic.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:31 pm

bob75013 wrote:
Max wind gusts at MDW yesterday were at 61 MPH -- according to WGN TV weather.

That exceeds WN's max crosswind thresh hold.


I’m still floored that a UA pilot would criticize other pilots for not flying in bad weather. Doesn’t that go against everything we’ve learned over the years?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2128
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:44 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Huge winds expected for large portions of the Midwest and East Coast today. Not the best day for flying.
https://weather.com/storms/winter/video ... orm-quiana

Starting to see AA cancel numerous regionals out of CLT, DCA, and PHL.


AA cancelled all regional SBN flying Sunday because of high winds.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:55 pm

bob75013 wrote:
Max wind gusts at MDW yesterday were at 61 MPH -- according to WGN TV weather.

That exceeds WN's max crosswind thresh hold.


That is 53KTS. What was the direction and was that sustained wind or a one off gust? Again, how many WN pilots diverted or refused to take off in the winds at MDW yesterday? 47KT winds at ORD and the planes were flying. It is the crosswind component that matters.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:01 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Max wind gusts at MDW yesterday were at 61 MPH -- according to WGN TV weather.

That exceeds WN's max crosswind thresh hold.


I’m still floored that a UA pilot would criticize other pilots for not flying in bad weather. Doesn’t that go against everything we’ve learned over the years?


You show me proof that a WN pilot elected NOT to fly at MDW yesterday. Or were all the cancels operational from the unraveling of the operation at WN. WIll Gary Kelly be apologizing for the pilot not flying in winds under the maximum allowed at MDW yesterday? Will he mandate the pilots have to fly and declare and operational emergency if they don’t?
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:30 pm

mcdu wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Max wind gusts at MDW yesterday were at 61 MPH -- according to WGN TV weather.

That exceeds WN's max crosswind thresh hold.


I’m still floored that a UA pilot would criticize other pilots for not flying in bad weather. Doesn’t that go against everything we’ve learned over the years?


You show me proof that a WN pilot elected NOT to fly at MDW yesterday. Or were all the cancels operational from the unraveling of the operation at WN. WIll Gary Kelly be apologizing for the pilot not flying in winds under the maximum allowed at MDW yesterday? Will he mandate the pilots have to fly and declare and operational emergency if they don’t?


I think this conversation is getting irrational. Proof? So far, you’ve refused to acknowledge nasty weather, refused to acknowledge a few hundred cancellations up the road at ORD, and refused to acknowledge that the previous night saw a number of inbound RON’s cxld which of course meant that the AM outbound was canceled.

In the meantime, nobody is denying that WN might have broader ops issues. We’re just able to process an individual event.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:01 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
mcdu wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

I’m still floored that a UA pilot would criticize other pilots for not flying in bad weather. Doesn’t that go against everything we’ve learned over the years?


You show me proof that a WN pilot elected NOT to fly at MDW yesterday. Or were all the cancels operational from the unraveling of the operation at WN. WIll Gary Kelly be apologizing for the pilot not flying in winds under the maximum allowed at MDW yesterday? Will he mandate the pilots have to fly and declare and operational emergency if they don’t?


I think this conversation is getting irrational. Proof? So far, you’ve refused to acknowledge nasty weather, refused to acknowledge a few hundred cancellations up the road at ORD, and refused to acknowledge that the previous night saw a number of inbound RON’s cxld which of course meant that the AM outbound was canceled.

In the meantime, nobody is denying that WN might have broader ops issues. We’re just able to process an individual event.


Just click on his name and the tap “add foe”. That user will never add anything of use to any topic and if people quit entertaining him, maybe he’ll stop... and if he doesn’t you just won’t see the posts.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:12 pm

mcdu wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Max wind gusts at MDW yesterday were at 61 MPH -- according to WGN TV weather.

That exceeds WN's max crosswind thresh hold.


That is 53KTS. What was the direction and was that sustained wind or a one off gust? Again, how many WN pilots diverted or refused to take off in the winds at MDW yesterday? 47KT winds at ORD and the planes were flying. It is the crosswind component that matters.


Prevailing headings of the worst winds were 260 and 270
 
mcdu
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:22 pm

For today WN has canceled 124 or 7% of the schedule for today and it isn’t even noon eastern time. Is this about the winds at MDW today?

Last hour: KMDW 251553Z 28007KT 10SM FEW110 BKN170 BKN250 M10/M20 A3046
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2898
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:28 pm

mcdu wrote:
Even the CEO is willing to admit their are problems with the operation. When will the people of a.net?

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/southwest-airlines/2019/02/23/southwest-ceo-urges-employees-hang-tumultuous-past-weeks


From the link above:

"We suddenly find ourselves in a period of tension and turmoil surrounding out-of-service aircraft for maintenance and AMFA contract negotiations," Kelly wrote in his letter. "Over the past two weeks, this has created a hardship for many of our Operational Employees and Customers."

I find his comment laughable. After several FAA fines and six years has elapsed and he doesn't think enough of his mechanics to settle their contact. The bottom line is safety and yet he still hasn't addressed his own failure to manage the maintenance issues or contract negotiations. Both go together hand in hand with safety and the airline reputation as well. I think its time that he steps up to the plate and resolve all the issues or step down and let someone that is actually interested run the airline.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:42 pm

mcdu wrote:
For today WN has canceled 124 or 7% of the schedule for today and it isn’t even noon eastern time. Is this about the winds at MDW today?

Last hour: KMDW 251553Z 28007KT 10SM FEW110 BKN170 BKN250 M10/M20 A3046


If you want to talk about operational disasters why don’t you talk about Delta? As of 11:30 Eastern time they have cancelled 199 flights (75 more than Southwest). Of course 198 of the 199 cancelled flights were to be operated by the poor performing Delta Connection carriers but that’s little consolation to the passengers who bought tickets from Delta. What’s the reason for this? Winds???
 
bob75013
Posts: 1024
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: WN at MDW meltdown?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:56 pm

IPFreely wrote:
mcdu wrote:
For today WN has canceled 124 or 7% of the schedule for today and it isn’t even noon eastern time. Is this about the winds at MDW today?

Last hour: KMDW 251553Z 28007KT 10SM FEW110 BKN170 BKN250 M10/M20 A3046


If you want to talk about operational disasters why don’t you talk about Delta? As of 11:30 Eastern time they have cancelled 199 flights (75 more than Southwest). Of course 198 of the 199 cancelled flights were to be operated by the poor performing Delta Connection carriers but that’s little consolation to the passengers who bought tickets from Delta. What’s the reason for this? Winds???



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