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Mortyman
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Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:21 pm

Why is no one of the US majors flying to Egypt ?

Has anyone of them ever ?
 
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Polot
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:28 pm

DL use to and UA had plans, but both suspended due to the unrest in Egypt during the Arab spring. I’m not sure North American tourism has fully recovered from that yet.
 
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airzim
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:18 pm

I believe the only US carrier to served CAI was TWA (perhaps PA did too). They had continuing service onto Riyadh. In fact TW had a massive ticket office in Tahir Square across from the Nile Hilton and Cairo Museum.

If memory serves, the dropped all MidEast services just before their merger with AA.

I just don't the market is really there at this time. The business demand is likely very weak and the tourism market has never recovered from the Arab Spring.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:50 pm

airzim wrote:
I believe the only US carrier to served CAI was TWA (perhaps PA did too). They had continuing service onto Riyadh. In fact TW had a massive ticket office in Tahir Square across from the Nile Hilton and Cairo Museum.

If memory serves, the dropped all MidEast services just before their merger with AA.

I just don't the market is really there at this time. The business demand is likely very weak and the tourism market has never recovered from the Arab Spring.


PA served CAI briefly in Ed Acker's throw anything at the wall period of expansion in 1983. DL flew to CAI briefly in 2001 and AA intended to fly TW's route JFK-CAI-RUH but 9/11 got in the way.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:57 pm

Why:
Tourism market in Egypt is down
Unrest in Egypt
(above are getting better, but very very slowly)
Very long flight

Even a lot of the EU cariers downsized Cairoin the last years.
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Polot
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:58 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
airzim wrote:
I believe the only US carrier to served CAI was TWA (perhaps PA did too). They had continuing service onto Riyadh. In fact TW had a massive ticket office in Tahir Square across from the Nile Hilton and Cairo Museum.

If memory serves, the dropped all MidEast services just before their merger with AA.

I just don't the market is really there at this time. The business demand is likely very weak and the tourism market has never recovered from the Arab Spring.


PA served CAI briefly in Ed Acker's throw anything at the wall period of expansion in 1983. DL flew to CAI briefly in 2001 and AA intended to fly TW's route JFK-CAI-RUH but 9/11 got in the way.

DL relaunched JFK-CAI in 2008 and operated it (with 763ER) until the route was suspended in January 2011. It may have been seasonal, I don’t remember.

CO (not UA like I earlier said, although the merger had started) announced EWR-CAI to start May 2011 using 77Es, but the flight was cancelled due to the uprisings before operations began.
Last edited by Polot on Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:00 pm

Polot wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
airzim wrote:
I believe the only US carrier to served CAI was TWA (perhaps PA did too). They had continuing service onto Riyadh. In fact TW had a massive ticket office in Tahir Square across from the Nile Hilton and Cairo Museum.

If memory serves, the dropped all MidEast services just before their merger with AA.

I just don't the market is really there at this time. The business demand is likely very weak and the tourism market has never recovered from the Arab Spring.


PA served CAI briefly in Ed Acker's throw anything at the wall period of expansion in 1983. DL flew to CAI briefly in 2001 and AA intended to fly TW's route JFK-CAI-RUH but 9/11 got in the way.

DL relaunched JFK-CAI in 2008 and operated it (with 763ER) until the route was suspended in January 2011. It may have been seasonal, I don’t remember.

I could have sworn UA announced EWR-CAI, but never operated it due to the uprisings. I’m having trouble finding any information about though, maybe it was just a strong rumor.


Right, JFK-CAI was part of a general DL expansion back to the Middle East and into Africa in 2008.

I don't recall if UA announced it but they were planning it for sure. The buzz was very strong.
 
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Polot
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:02 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Polot wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

PA served CAI briefly in Ed Acker's throw anything at the wall period of expansion in 1983. DL flew to CAI briefly in 2001 and AA intended to fly TW's route JFK-CAI-RUH but 9/11 got in the way.

DL relaunched JFK-CAI in 2008 and operated it (with 763ER) until the route was suspended in January 2011. It may have been seasonal, I don’t remember.

I could have sworn UA announced EWR-CAI, but never operated it due to the uprisings. I’m having trouble finding any information about though, maybe it was just a strong rumor.


Right, JFK-CAI was part of a general DL expansion back to the Middle East and into Africa in 2008.

I don't recall if UA announced it but they were planning it for sure. The buzz was very strong.

I edited after your reply. It was CO who made the announcement, I think UA merger was still under government review at time.
 
ewt340
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:04 pm

To be fair, US3 doesn't have strong presence in North Africa or the Middle East. They served some destinations, but not as extensive. They also doesn't necessarily have the same historical ties to those areas compared to Europe or Asia.

Besides, they face stiff competition from European Airlines and ME3.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:05 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Why is no one of the US majors flying to Egypt ?

Has anyone of them ever ?

I spent the night of January 25, 2011 in Cairo in the Novotel. This was the night when the Egyptian unrest started after Mubarek made a statement on TV, saying that he would not step down. Next to me, two DL-pilots checked in and complained that internet didn’t work (it was blocked by the state authorities…). One of the pilots turned to his colleague and said “let’s get the hell out of here”…
And that’s what we all did the next morning…

Between, found this article from our former member Jon Ostrower: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ns-352518/
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:09 pm

TWA flew to CAI I think almost until the end of its existence, nonstop from JFK and at other times in its history also operated CAI-ATH-FCO-JFK. (The TWA flight hijacked in 1985 to Algiers and then to Beirut was a 727-200 operating CAI-ATH-FCO). Delta did fly JFK to CAI for a period of time but dropped the route and as others have said, it was a seasonal service. Continental Airlines had announced plans to launch seasonal nonstop service from EWR using the 772ER but the service never started due to the uprisings around the Arab Spring. The CO route announcement predated the merger with UA. There's really no reason for any of the US3 to fly to CAI using their own metal. The market is likely sufficiently covered with what Egyptair offers, and the rest via connections.
 
Arion640
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:16 pm

Can funnel traffic via their partners through LHR, CDG etc.
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gunnerman
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:17 pm

MS's sole US route is the daily CAI-JFK with the 2-cabin 346-seat 77W which takes 12h 0m (10h 35m on the return). There's clearly a lack of demand on this lengthy route.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:20 pm

gunnerman wrote:
MS's sole US route is the daily CAI-JFK with the 2-cabin 346-seat 77W which takes 12h 0m (10h 35m on the return). There's clearly a lack of demand on this lengthy route.


MS just announced IAD-CAI on the 787-9, 4 x per week.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:42 pm

Whenever some one wants to know why US3 don’t fly somewhere the answer is it isn’t profitable to do so.

No corporate traffic
No tourism in large volume
No cargo demand
No VFR

For long haul international J class demand and cargo are critical.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:02 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
MS's sole US route is the daily CAI-JFK with the 2-cabin 346-seat 77W which takes 12h 0m (10h 35m on the return). There's clearly a lack of demand on this lengthy route.


MS just announced IAD-CAI on the 787-9, 4 x per week.

This is 3x weekly starting 3 June but the schedule runs only to 25 October.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:28 pm

Thanx for all your feed back.
 
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:29 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Polot wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

PA served CAI briefly in Ed Acker's throw anything at the wall period of expansion in 1983. DL flew to CAI briefly in 2001 and AA intended to fly TW's route JFK-CAI-RUH but 9/11 got in the way.

DL relaunched JFK-CAI in 2008 and operated it (with 763ER) until the route was suspended in January 2011. It may have been seasonal, I don’t remember.

I could have sworn UA announced EWR-CAI, but never operated it due to the uprisings. I’m having trouble finding any information about though, maybe it was just a strong rumor.


Right, JFK-CAI was part of a general DL expansion back to the Middle East and into Africa in 2008.

I don't recall if UA announced it but they were planning it for sure. The buzz was very strong.


:checkmark: DL announced JFK-CAI in the same route announcement where they announced JFK-TLV and JFK-AMM, along with at least a few Europe routes (I don't remember if that's when they announced JFK-LYS, JFK-GOT, etc., or if that was another announcement). Of the three Middle East/North Africa routes, only JFK-TLV stuck in the long term.

I don't ever remember UA formally announcing EWR-CAI, although I could be forgetting something.
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directorguy
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:47 pm

Egypt is a big market with plenty of ties to the US-VFR, business ties, student traffic, and of course tourism. Both ways. Lots of Americans coming to see the Pyramids+do a Nile cruise. And a lot of Egyptians go on holiday in the States.

What routes might the US3 consider?
UA: EWR-CAI on a 787. Lots of local NY/NJ origin traffic, plus a lot of connections would be made possible at both ends.
DL: JFK-CAI? Or even ATL-CAI?
AA: ORD-CAI? Quite a bit of O&D demand in Chicago (relative to other potential starting points), but AA is very conservative when it comes to expansion in this part of the world.
 
winginit
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:47 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Why is no one of the US majors flying to Egypt ?

Has anyone of them ever ?


Let's flip that question back to you:

Why would any of the US3 fly nonstop to Egypt? Is there a business case?
 
jayunited
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:29 pm

FSDan wrote:
:checkmark: DL announced JFK-CAI in the same route announcement where they announced JFK-TLV and JFK-AMM, along with at least a few Europe routes (I don't remember if that's when they announced JFK-LYS, JFK-GOT, etc., or if that was another announcement). Of the three Middle East/North Africa routes, only JFK-TLV stuck in the long term.

I don't ever remember UA formally announcing EWR-CAI, although I could be forgetting something.


Pre-merger UA never announced any type of service to CAI however however CO did announce EWR-CAI but two things did this route in before it even started, the Arab spring, and the late arrival of CO's 787s. The route was supposed to commence during the early stages of the merger, CO's plan was to use a 77E but because of the delayed delivery of the 787s CO had no 77Es to spare resulting the launch date being delayed then came Arab spring and the route was canceled. The only route to come to fruition was from those early pre-merger days IAH-LOS, which was also delayed but post merger CO launched the route using a 77E until the 788s arrived. EWR-CAI and IAH-AKL never came to fruition even though they were announced.
 
jfk777
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:56 pm

TWA flew to Cairo nonstop, 747 & 763ER's, and via CDG, FCO and ATH from Constellations until they merged with AA. Today's US3 are run by CPA's, TWA would probably fly the route even if it was a dog half the year just to say they fly to Cairo. The US3 today would never fly there with the security concerns and non-existent tourist market.
 
jfk777
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:01 pm

TWA flew to Cairo nonstop, 747 & 763ER's, and via CDG, FCO and ATH from Constellations until they merged with AA. Today's US3 are run by CPA's, TWA would probably fly the route even if it was a dog half the year just to say they fly to Cairo. The US3 today would never fly there with the security concerns and non-existent tourist market.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:15 pm

FlyRow wrote:
Why:
Tourism market in Egypt is down
Unrest in Egypt
(above are getting better, but very very slowly)
Very long flight

Even a lot of the EU cariers downsized Cairoin the last years.


It's really the first two. Having recently been to Egypt, anecdotally heard that tourism had largely returned close to pre-Arab Spring levels from France, Italy, Spain, Germany, etc., but not yet from UK or USA.

Until tourism really shoots up, can't see the need for this being a route for any of the US3.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:19 pm

directorguy wrote:
Lots of Americans coming to see the Pyramids+do a Nile cruise.

Not that many. Most American's only hear about the oppression of el-Sisi and of the recent (last 5 years) terrorist attacks against tourists...
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:31 pm

US Companies are still a target in places like Egypt vs say EK. Now it is easy to hub at Dubai or LHR or similar. Hubbing still makes great sense when the hub is along the flight path of a direct flight verses way out of the way. Hardly anyone files EK for US to Europe as you fly past your destination by a few hours only to fly back.

The instability in Egypt makes many US pax quite nervous to visit. Better to visit Spain or Italy instead.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:05 pm

There are equipment/hub problems as well. Delta could probably make a 763 out of JFK work. Other hubs are either too far (dfw, atl) or not enough connecting horsepower (PHL) or the plane needed to fly that distance too large.

A 763 is about all it could sustain I would imagine.
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Cointrin330
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:32 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
MS's sole US route is the daily CAI-JFK with the 2-cabin 346-seat 77W which takes 12h 0m (10h 35m on the return). There's clearly a lack of demand on this lengthy route.


MS just announced IAD-CAI on the 787-9, 4 x per week.

This is 3x weekly starting 3 June but the schedule runs only to 25 October.


And a likely sure sign no further service is needed.
 
UA777EWRTLV
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:55 pm

ewt340 wrote:
To be fair, US3 doesn't have strong presence in North Africa or the Middle East. They served some destinations, but not as extensive. They also doesn't necessarily have the same historical ties to those areas compared to Europe or Asia.

Besides, they face stiff competition from European Airlines and ME3.


For the most part, that’s true, but, to play devils advocate, around the time of the merger (2010/2011), CO and UA combined route network included routes from EWR and IAD to IST, TLV, DXB, KWI, DOH, BAH, and an announced CAI route.

And at a similar time, Delta was flying to IST, TLV, AMM, CAI, KWI, and DXB from JFK and/or ATL.

But, for the most part, you’re correct.
 
MikeMidd2001
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:04 pm

Have done a fair amount of work in Egypt related to aviation, security and tourism.

Tourism figures are still significantly down compared to pre-Arab Spring. See this: https://tradingeconomics.com/egypt/tourism-revenues From $12.5 billion per year in 2010 to $7.6 billion in 2017, and very volatile in between. Far fewer U.S. visitors, flight bans to tourist destinations like Sharm from the UK and Russia, and other problems.

Cairo has been replaced as a regional hub by places like Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and (sort-of Doha). So you're going to Cairo for business in Egypt, in most cases. The currency was a disaster after the peg to USD was removed in 2016, though much better lately, but still caused real problems for Egyptians travelling abroad.

Add on top the continued concerns about security and the risk with flying into Cairo, where many European airlines are paying for additional enhanced security.

It's not to say US3 couldn't make any money there...but can they make more than to other long-haul destinations, as compared to pushing traffic through London, Paris or Frankfurt/Munich?
 
catiii
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:14 pm

As I recall, the initial DL foray into CAI launched in June 2001. The routing was JFK-DXB-CAI and back to JFK via DXB on the MD-11.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:52 am

gunnerman wrote:
MS's sole US route is the daily CAI-JFK with the 2-cabin 346-seat 77W which takes 12h 0m (10h 35m on the return). There's clearly a lack of demand on this lengthy route.
If MS was looking for extra traffic, it probably had moved from JFK to Star Alliance hub EWR some time ago.
The only other U.S. airport which perhaps still now could support a CAI flight is LAX.
Not sure if any MS aircraft has the range for CAI-LAX but the route might be profitable and attractive if routed via an Star Alliance European hub with no non-stop LAX service.

Chances are almost none now for U.S. airlines to fly to CAI and the one which probably could have more chance at operating over there may be UA.
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PayaLebar
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:49 am

airzim wrote:
I believe the only US carrier to served CAI was TWA (perhaps PA did too). They had continuing service onto Riyadh. In fact TW had a massive ticket office in Tahir Square across from the Nile Hilton and Cairo Museum.

:checkmark:

At one point in time, TWA was flying twice daily from Cairo with B727. Sometime in February 1987, I was on a TW L1011 flight from JFK to CAI. The flight went via CDG and continued on to KWI and BOM.
 
PayaLebar
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:57 am

FlyRow wrote:
Even a lot of the EU cariers downsized Cairoin the last years.

:checkmark:

CAI was even a destination for Asian airlines e.g. BI, GA, JL, KE, MH.TG, PR, SQ. Not anymore.
 
ual763
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:06 am

I think in a couple years when the new Grand Egyptian Museum is finally fully completed, tourism levels may be somewhat back to normal. But that is a very big MAYBE.
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mercure1
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:59 am

Cairo and Egypt more broadly is long past is glory days as and import economic, political and social hub in the region.
Air service be it from the US, Europe, Far East and even regionally reflects this new reality for its far diminished status.
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MalevTU134
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:32 am

catiii wrote:
As I recall, the initial DL foray into CAI launched in June 2001. The routing was JFK-DXB-CAI and back to JFK via DXB on the MD-11.

Are you sure? That would be a heck of a backtrack.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:43 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
US Companies are still a target in places like Egypt vs say EK. Now it is easy to hub at Dubai or LHR or similar. Hubbing still makes great sense when the hub is along the flight path of a direct flight verses way out of the way. Hardly anyone files EK for US to Europe as you fly past your destination by a few hours only to fly back.

The instability in Egypt makes many US pax quite nervous to visit. Better to visit Spain or Italy instead.

The total of 1,000 or so passengers each day on MXP-EWR and ATH-EWR and vice versa would respectfully disagree with you.
 
texdravid
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:21 am

I flew TWA JFK-CAI-KWI-BOM in May 1985.
What a trip that was!

Upon arrival to CAI, we were told because of a terrorist incident in KWI, we wound fly to BOM nonstop.

However, they changed their minds and we now offloaded fuel in CAI with a big delay.

Then got to KWI abt the old TWA 741 broke down for hours. Upon getting back on board, we were told by the crew to move to the front of coach as the plane would have “less difficulty taking off”. That’s the only time I ever saw my dad pray before takeoff!!

Anyway made to BOM so late we obviously missed our connection to MAA. We started our journey 3 days prior in DFW.

Don’t miss those milk runs of the 70s and 80s.
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Planeflyer
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:44 am

The many references to TWA, I think are instructive as to the viability of US to Egypt services.
 
ewt340
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:52 am

UA777EWRTLV wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
To be fair, US3 doesn't have strong presence in North Africa or the Middle East. They served some destinations, but not as extensive. They also doesn't necessarily have the same historical ties to those areas compared to Europe or Asia.

Besides, they face stiff competition from European Airlines and ME3.


For the most part, that’s true, but, to play devils advocate, around the time of the merger (2010/2011), CO and UA combined route network included routes from EWR and IAD to IST, TLV, DXB, KWI, DOH, BAH, and an announced CAI route.

And at a similar time, Delta was flying to IST, TLV, AMM, CAI, KWI, and DXB from JFK and/or ATL.

But, for the most part, you’re correct.


Both Delta and United fly to Tel Aviv. Delta fly to some other African destinations but not in North Africa.
And Of course American doesn't fly anywhere around these areas.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:53 pm

Planeflyer wrote:

The many references to TWA, I think are instructive as to the viability of US to Egypt services.


Different times, different market realities. TWA cut a LOT of TATL service as it slowly died, but CAI stayed until the bitter end. Why's that?
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EvanWSFO
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:07 pm

For the TWA fans, Departed Flights has a ton of old route maps, and a few timetables showing CAI on them.
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HECA
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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:28 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
MS's sole US route is the daily CAI-JFK with the 2-cabin 346-seat 77W which takes 12h 0m (10h 35m on the return). There's clearly a lack of demand on this lengthy route.
If MS was looking for extra traffic, it probably had moved from JFK to Star Alliance hub EWR some time ago.
The only other U.S. airport which perhaps still now could support a CAI flight is LAX.
Not sure if any MS aircraft has the range for CAI-LAX but the route might be profitable and attractive if routed via an Star Alliance European hub with no non-stop LAX service.

Chances are almost none now for U.S. airlines to fly to CAI and the one which probably could have more chance at operating over there may be UA.


MS used to fly to LAX - via CDG and JFK with 767-300ER and 777-200ER aircraft during the 1990s and 2000s.


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Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:43 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
catiii wrote:
As I recall, the initial DL foray into CAI launched in June 2001. The routing was JFK-DXB-CAI and back to JFK via DXB on the MD-11.

Are you sure? That would be a heck of a backtrack.


Ah typo on my part. JFK-CAI-DXB-CAI-JFK.

It wasn't daily, and I think at the time made DL the only US carrier into DXB.
 
hohd
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:47 pm

Lots of Americans go to Egypt ? Last time I went which was about 3 years ago to Cairo, there were hardly any tourists. Americans (except for VFR) don't travel very far for tourism in general anyway as compared to Europeans or even Canadians.
 
klakzky123
Posts: 648
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:59 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Planeflyer wrote:

The many references to TWA, I think are instructive as to the viability of US to Egypt services.


Different times, different market realities. TWA cut a LOT of TATL service as it slowly died, but CAI stayed until the bitter end. Why's that?


Today, the US3 all have TATL joint ventures. There are one stop options to CAI via CDG, FRA, and LHR now. 20 years ago, the US3 had to fly their own metal if they wanted to add a city like Cairo to the route network.
 
BostonBeau
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:55 pm

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:36 pm

[/quote]Both Delta and United fly to Tel Aviv. Delta fly to some other African destinations but not in North Africa.
And Of course American doesn't fly anywhere around these areas.[/quote]

Isn't there some sort of legal reason that AA doesn't fly to Tel Aviv? I vaguely remember that TWA had some sort of financial dispute, and they were afraid an aircraft would be seized if they served Tel Aviv any longer. Would that dispute have passed on to AA?
 
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FCOTSTW
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:44 pm

airzim wrote:
I believe the only US carrier to served CAI was TWA (perhaps PA did too). They had continuing service onto Riyadh. In fact TW had a massive ticket office in Tahir Square across from the Nile Hilton and Cairo Museum.

If memory serves, the dropped all MidEast services just before their merger with AA.

I just don't the market is really there at this time. The business demand is likely very weak and the tourism market has never recovered from the Arab Spring.


I confirm that.

TW used to fly daily CAI FCO JFK, CAI CDG JFK, CAI ATH FCO JFK. 747 on transatlantic, mostly 727 on the shoerter segments.
As a matter of fact, CAI was one of the last transatlantic destinations the airline had.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Why no US3 to Egypt ?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:52 pm

hohd wrote:
Lots of Americans go to Egypt ? Last time I went which was about 3 years ago to Cairo, there were hardly any tourists. Americans (except for VFR) don't travel very far for tourism in general anyway as compared to Europeans or even Canadians.


It's improved slightly. I went in September last year. The locals told me that the big holdouts still to come back are UK & US.

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