AC to start YUL-GRU, YVR-AKL and YYZ-UIO

Thenoflyzone · Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:10 pm

No official announcements yet, but all flights are loaded in the flight schedules for winter 2019-2020 season.

YUL-GRU 3x weekly B789 AC96/97 As of Dec 11, 2019
YVR-AKL 4x weekly B788 AC51/52 As of Dec 12, 2019
YYZ-UIO 3x weekly Rouge B763 AC1950/51 As of Dec 8, 2019

codyul · Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:00 pm

That's great!! This is new for picking up winter flying and having more even operation, I'm guessing. Would it be seasonal winter or less frequency in summer. Very interesting.

jfk777 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:04 pm

Air Canada's attention to Montreal in recent years has been high, traditionally a European gateway. Last year they started nonstops to Tokyo and now Sao Paulo, cities until now only flown from their main Toronto hub.

Noise · Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:04 pm

YUL-GRU is awesome didn't see that one coming.

DylanHarvey · Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:09 pm

How is the 763 gonna handle UIO’s altitude?

ac33e · Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:14 pm

codyul wrote:
That's great!! This is new for picking up winter flying and having more even operation, I'm guessing. Would it be seasonal winter or less frequency in summer. Very interesting.

This seems like Winter seasonal, at least at first. Part of what the management were calling "counter seasonal flying".

sixtyseven · Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:17 pm

DylanHarvey wrote:
How is the 763 gonna handle UIO’s altitude?

The same way it handles Bogotá which is about 500 feet higher.

SKYMILES · Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:39 pm

Where is the announcement's link ? AC res are not showing at all the dates available

Thenoflyzone · Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:49 pm

DylanHarvey wrote:
How is the 763 gonna handle UIO’s altitude?

The new airport in Quito is at a lower altitude and has a longer runway than the old one. Combined with the fact that YYZ-UIO is a relative short hop for the B763 (4,852 km), I dont forsee any issues on the route.

SKYMILES wrote:
Where is the announcement's link ? AC res are not showing at all the dates available

Only being shown in the flights schedules for now.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... dules.html

sixtyseven wrote:

The same way it handles Bogotá which is about 500 feet higher.

codyul · Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:01 pm

ac33e wrote:
codyul wrote:
That's great!! This is new for picking up winter flying and having more even operation, I'm guessing. Would it be seasonal winter or less frequency in summer. Very interesting.

This seems like Winter seasonal, at least at first. Part of what the management were calling "counter seasonal flying".

Yes that's the much better worded term I was looking for. Counter seasonal

EvanWSFO · Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:09 pm

Curious if the YVR-AKL flight will have any impact on NZ. Don't they do daily in N. Summer?

DylanHarvey · Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:28 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
DylanHarvey wrote:
How is the 763 gonna handle UIO’s altitude?

The new airport in Quito is at a lower altitude and has a longer runway than the old one. Combined with the fact that YYZ-UIO is a relative short hop for the B763 (4,852 km), I dont forsee any issues on the route.

SKYMILES wrote:
Where is the announcement's link ? AC res are not showing at all the dates available

Only being shown in the flights schedules for now.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... dules.html
Ok, yeah, that will solve all issues. They shouldn’t face any any restrictions

sixtyseven wrote:

The same way it handles Bogotá which is about 500 feet higher.

OlympicATH · Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:35 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada's attention to Montreal in recent years has been high, traditionally a European gateway. Last year they started nonstops to Tokyo and now Sao Paulo, cities until now only flown from their main Toronto hub.

Fully agree, plus Shanghai which was added in 2017.

simpv · Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:38 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
Curious if the YVR-AKL flight will have any impact on NZ. Don't they do daily in N. Summer?

Is AC part of the UA/NZ agreement?

EvanWSFO · Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:43 pm

simpv wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Curious if the YVR-AKL flight will have any impact on NZ. Don't they do daily in N. Summer?

Is AC part of the UA/NZ agreement?

Aside from being in * Alliance I don't know how close the two are, thus my question. I am aware being in an alliance doesn't necessarily mean all carriers cooperate with each other.

simpv · Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:54 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
simpv wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Curious if the YVR-AKL flight will have any impact on NZ. Don't they do daily in N. Summer?

Is AC part of the UA/NZ agreement?

Aside from being in * Alliance I don't know how close the two are, thus my question. I am aware being in an alliance doesn't necessarily mean all carriers cooperate with each other.

The original agreement left AC out (but the UA/NZ JV also seemed to not include Canada): https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... jvs-271348.

I can't find anything else on the agreements since then.

EK77WNH · Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:11 pm

I live in New Hampshire near Boston, and on European trips, I have flown BOS-YYZ and connected to a 77W to London. Now I am planning a business trip to Shanghai and I can choose a 77W via YYZ with a return using a 788 through YUL. I've been on a AC 788 before, LHR-YYZ soon after the plane was entered into the fleet. The 77W flights were nice, too. But I hear that AC has made their 77Ws less comfortable by squeezing more rows & seats. Should I be staying away from the 77W? I won't be flying first class, but I might be in premium economy. I think my company allows that.

EvanWSFO · Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:14 pm

simpv wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
simpv wrote:

Is AC part of the UA/NZ agreement?

Aside from being in * Alliance I don't know how close the two are, thus my question. I am aware being in an alliance doesn't necessarily mean all carriers cooperate with each other.

The original agreement left AC out (but the UA/NZ JV also seemed to not include Canada): https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... jvs-271348.

I can't find anything else on the agreements since then.

Thanks.

incitatus · Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:34 pm

I assume AC also looked at YUL-GIG and decided for GRU.

gatibosgru · Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:40 pm

Nice add for GRU, didn't expect that one. Wonder if they'd add YUL-GIG on Rouge seasonally?

raylee67 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:15 pm

AC is really developing YUL as an alternate East Coast hub vs YYZ. I hope we will see more Asia flights.

TS-IOR · Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:29 pm

High times for YUL the airport and city. I don't know if AC is routing some transit on its expanding YUL network or still prefer YYZ for that purpose.

samuelx88 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:32 pm

They should have added YQB-YVR, YQB-YHZ and YQB-YYC. A city of 800k people should have direct flight to all AC hubs in Canada even if it is only 3x a week or seasonal.

YYZLGA · Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:45 pm

TS-IOR wrote:
High times for YUL the airport and city. I don't know if AC is routing some transit on its expanding YUL network or still prefer YYZ for that purpose.

YUL is definitely being used heavily for connections. I think airport fees make it a bit cheaper for AC to connect pax through YUL, so that's likely driving a lot of the growth. YUL has to be careful that their big planned expansion doesn't increase fees enough to make them less competitive as a connecting hub.

alexdelzotto1 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:24 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Air Canada's attention to Montreal in recent years has been high, traditionally a European gateway. Last year they started nonstops to Tokyo and now Sao Paulo, cities until now only flown from their main Toronto hub.

Fully agree, plus Shanghai which was added in 2017.

Including Lima in December 2017 which quickly became year round before it was even launched.

ac33e · Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:32 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
TS-IOR wrote:
High times for YUL the airport and city. I don't know if AC is routing some transit on its expanding YUL network or still prefer YYZ for that purpose.

YUL is definitely being used heavily for connections. I think airport fees make it a bit cheaper for AC to connect pax through YUL, so that's likely driving a lot of the growth. YUL has to be careful that their big planned expansion doesn't increase fees enough to make them less competitive as a connecting hub.

Also to be kept in mind is that YYZ has a much larger O&D market. You'd rather fill your YYZ aircraft with higher yielding local traffic and direct connections through the secondary hub.

YYZORD · Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:48 pm

YVR-AKL is a nice addition for AC as UA flies SFO-AKL and tbh YVR is a better place to connect to Canada/USA compared to SFO.

9252fly · Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:20 pm

YYZORD wrote:
YVR-AKL is a nice addition for AC as UA flies SFO-AKL and tbh YVR is a better place to connect to Canada/USA compared to SFO.

I was trying to remember when and if AC previously operated the route. To the best of my recollection, CP last operated the route via HNL, not sure if that was prior, or during the merger.

Noise · Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:43 pm

Recent adds from YUL with AC:
RDU
PIT
BWI
PHX
GRU
NRT
PVG
TLV
KEF
BOD
DUB
LIS
LIM
OTP
IAH
DFW
MRS
LYS
ALG
YXU
YYJ
YQG

Am I missing anything else?

C010T3 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:58 pm

incitatus wrote:
I assume AC also looked at YUL-GIG and decided for GRU.

It is exactly the right time for most carriers to be on Brazil. Air Canada is doing the right thing by going the safe way of not opening a new station. If things don't turn up to the expected, they can easily axe the flight without trauma.

aerorobnz · Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:00 pm

CP used to fly DC10s via HNL in the 80s, and later 763s, there was even an Empress lounge. Then it became an agreement with NZ metal to HNL and CP beyond The only AC metal to AKL was when QF had fleet issues around 2001-2 and used a number of AC 763s transtasman.

nascarnut · Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:09 pm

Ref AC/NZ AKL-YVR, imagine NZ will do daily seasonal as they do today but will not increase to 9 per week as previously done. They did similar with SFO. Before UA started SFO would increase to 10 per week but was stopped when UA came in. This freed up aircraft to operate other seasonal increases. May see EZE or TPE go daily this Christmas

nascarnut · Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:10 pm

Ref AC/NZ AKL-YVR, imagine NZ will do daily seasonal as they do today but will not increase to 9 per week as previously done. They did similar with SFO. Before UA started SFO would increase to 10 per week but was stopped when UA came in. This freed up aircraft to operate other seasonal increases. May see EZE or TPE go daily this Christmas

ac33e · Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:14 pm

Noise wrote:
Recent adds from YUL with AC:
RDU
PIT
BWI
PHX
GRU
NRT
PVG
TLV
KEF
BOD
DUB
LIS
LIM
OTP
IAH
DFW
MRS
LYS
ALG
YXU
YYJ
YQG

Am I missing anything else?

IAD

berari · Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:39 pm

Noise wrote:
Recent adds from YUL with AC:
RDU
PIT
BWI
PHX
GRU
NRT
PVG
TLV
KEF
BOD
DUB
LIS
LIM
OTP
IAH
DFW
MRS
LYS
ALG
YXU
YYJ
YQG

Am I missing anything else?

While I see that some of these cities have O&D traffic, is the idea to strengthen the hub status that YUL had and alleviate constraints at YYZ?

Noise · Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:24 pm

berari wrote:
Noise wrote:
Recent adds from YUL with AC:
RDU
PIT
BWI
PHX
GRU
NRT
PVG
TLV
KEF
BOD
DUB
LIS
LIM
OTP
IAH
DFW
MRS
LYS
ALG
YXU
YYJ
YQG

Am I missing anything else?

While I see that some of these cities have O&D traffic, is the idea to strengthen the hub status that YUL had and alleviate constraints at YYZ?

Idea is to strengthen the hub status that YUL and complement YYZ. Honestly, to where else can AC expand from YYZ? JNB? GIG?

alan3 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:51 pm

Wow, they flew SYD alone for so many years and now BNE, MEL and AKL all added in the last 3 years.

A lot will be connecting passengers. I've read a number of articles and trip reviews recently about Australia/New Zealand pax who now prefer to connect to East Coast USA through YVR instead of LAX, due to a nicer airport, good connections and a better overall experience (and that's despite having to get a Canadian ETA visa and clear Canadian customs on the return leg). Such as this one https://www.ausbt.com.au/your-guide-to- ... air-canada.

YYZORD · Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:04 pm

This is why I'm confused as to why AC doesn't add a YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL flight, you don't have asia pax but australia/new zealand pax too that can easily connect. YVR has secondary asian cities that SFO or LAX doesn't have and it would be nice to have a MCO option out of YVR too. I get those living in Vancouver can drive down to SEA to catch a direct MCO or FLL flight but YVR has so much potential for connections pax and AC doesn't use the airport to the fullest. Heck even YYC has direct flights to MCO thanks to WS, it's just sad that it's so difficult to get to MCO or Florida out of YVR.

alan3 wrote:
Wow, they flew SYD alone for so many years and now BNE, MEL and AKL all added in the last 3 years.

A lot will be connecting passengers. I've read a number of articles and trip reviews recently about Australia/New Zealand pax who now prefer to connect to East Coast USA through YVR instead of LAX, due to a nicer airport, good connections and a better overall experience (and that's despite having to get a Canadian ETA visa and clear Canadian customs on the return leg). Such as this one https://www.ausbt.com.au/your-guide-to- ... air-canada.

wave46 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:13 pm

Glad to hear about YVR-AKL for 2019/20 - was thinking about a trip to NZ next year! I'd rather transit YVR than LAX/SFO, so I'm quite pleased to hear about this change.

alan3 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:16 pm

YYZORD wrote:
This is why I'm confused as to why AC doesn't add a YVR-MCO or YVR-FLL flight, you don't have asia pax but australia/new zealand pax too that can easily connect. YVR has secondary asian cities that SFO or LAX doesn't have and it would be nice to have a MCO option out of YVR too. I get those living in Vancouver can drive down to SEA to catch a direct MCO or FLL flight but YVR has so much potential for connections pax and AC doesn't use the airport to the fullest. Heck even YYC has direct flights to MCO thanks to WS, it's just sad that it's so difficult to get to MCO or Florida out of YVR.

alan3 wrote:
Wow, they flew SYD alone for so many years and now BNE, MEL and AKL all added in the last 3 years.

A lot will be connecting passengers. I've read a number of articles and trip reviews recently about Australia/New Zealand pax who now prefer to connect to East Coast USA through YVR instead of LAX, due to a nicer airport, good connections and a better overall experience (and that's despite having to get a Canadian ETA visa and clear Canadian customs on the return leg). Such as this one https://www.ausbt.com.au/your-guide-to- ... air-canada.

WS does fly from YVR-MCO now. But the market isn't huge. The leisure market from YVR is far more geared towards California, Las Vegas, Mexico and Hawaii, while Florida is more popular with Easterners. The connection traffic YVR can provide that is drawing passengers away from LAX and SFO is more geared towards places like JFK, EWR and ORD. And that's where they can pull business class connecting pax.

2travel2know2 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:34 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
No official announcements yet, but all flights are loaded in the flight schedules for winter 2019-2020 season.
...
YYZ-UIO 3x weekly Rouge B763 AC1950/51 As of Dec 8, 2019

AV and CM saying ouch! :biting:

Great news for Ecuador, even if UIO may be more of a leisure, VFR destination compared to GYE.

EcuaCan · Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:38 pm

This is exciting because it'll be the first direct flight between Canada and Ecuador. Air Canada has South America really well covered now, just missing GIG. Maybe if / when Venezuela recovers, they'll add CCS one day, but I can't see much else (though I would love to see GYE).

BWA900 · Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:48 pm

EcuaCan wrote:
This is exciting because it'll be the first direct flight between Canada and Ecuador. Air Canada has South America really well covered now, just missing GIG. Maybe if / when Venezuela recovers, they'll add CCS one day, but I can't see much else (though I would love to see GYE).

Maybe GEO as there is a large Guyanese population in Canada.

dcajet · Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:48 pm

EcuaCan wrote:
This is exciting because it'll be the first direct flight between Canada and Ecuador. Air Canada has South America really well covered now, just missing GIG. Maybe if / when Venezuela recovers, they'll add CCS one day, but I can't see much else (though I would love to see GYE).

Didn't they use to serve CCS until not that long ago?

9252fly · Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:35 am

EcuaCan wrote:
This is exciting because it'll be the first direct flight between Canada and Ecuador. Air Canada has South America really well covered now, just missing GIG. Maybe if / when Venezuela recovers, they'll add CCS one day, but I can't see much else (though I would love to see GYE).

AC tried GIG a few years ago and pulled out shortly after the Olympics in 2016. I don't expect them to return anytime soon, then again I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility. CCS is another destination that they have withdrawn from like many other airlines for various reason, that too is potentially another market that they could return if circumstances change. That operated on a triangle routing YYZ - POS - CCS - YYZ for a number of years if my memory is correct.

B752OS · Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:23 am

Is AC going to make YUL-NRT daily year round? Don't they run it at 3 x weekly for November through April and then daily May through October?

gpasternak · Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:52 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
simpv wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Curious if the YVR-AKL flight will have any impact on NZ. Don't they do daily in N. Summer?

Is AC part of the UA/NZ agreement?

Aside from being in * Alliance I don't know how close the two are, thus my question. I am aware being in an alliance doesn't necessarily mean all carriers cooperate with each other.

I am curious of the same thing. NZ 23/24 I think is daily year round. I did a few dummy bookings on both AC and NZ. AC did not offer any direct flights from AKL to YVR, instead they use QF or NZ for trans tasman flights and transfer you onwards from BNE/SYD/MEL. When I tried similar bookings with NZ aside from the direct flight it was a mixture of UA/NZ via SFO or AC via HNL.

ac33e · Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:13 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
No official announcements yet, but all flights are loaded in the flight schedules for winter 2019-2020 season.
...
YYZ-UIO 3x weekly Rouge B763 AC1950/51 As of Dec 8, 2019
AV and CM saying ouch!
Great news for Ecuador, even if UIO may be more of a leisure, VFR destination compared to GYE.

Also an important cargo route, just like LIM/SCL/BOG. Gotta keep Canadians happy with fresh fruit in winter.

MAH4546 · Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:26 am

alan3 wrote:
WS does fly from YVR-MCO now. But the market isn't huge. The leisure market from YVR is far more geared towards California, Las Vegas, Mexico and Hawaii, while Florida is more popular with Easterners. The connection traffic YVR can provide that is drawing passengers away from LAX and SFO is more geared towards places like JFK, EWR and ORD. And that's where they can pull business class connecting pax.

The single largest U.S.-Canada transborder market without a nonstop is Miami-Vancouver (and keep in mind the second and third largest transborder markets after Toronto-New York are Miami-Toronto and Miami-Montreal). It's pretty big. But yeah, it's just vacation traffic.

BoeingGuy · Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:30 am

MAH4546 wrote:
alan3 wrote:
WS does fly from YVR-MCO now. But the market isn't huge. The leisure market from YVR is far more geared towards California, Las Vegas, Mexico and Hawaii, while Florida is more popular with Easterners. The connection traffic YVR can provide that is drawing passengers away from LAX and SFO is more geared towards places like JFK, EWR and ORD. And that's where they can pull business class connecting pax.

The single largest U.S.-Canada transborder market without a nonstop is Miami-Vancouver (and keep in mind the second and third largest transborder markets after Toronto-New York are Miami-Toronto and Miami-Montreal). It's pretty big. But yeah, it's just vacation traffic.

I believe AA has done YVR-MIA in the past. Has AC ever flown it?

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