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mtnwest1979
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:19 pm

Lol well the day isn't over.....
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
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aloha73g
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:05 pm

Some interesting tidbits in this Bloomberg article about interisland service.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... pId=google

“What people miss is that intra-Hawaii is a big market,” he said. “It’s larger than intra-Texas. We built our airline on intra-Texas using the 737.” The inter-island market averaged 6,515 people a day traveling each way in the year through Sept. 30, Watterson said, citing U.S. Transportation Department data that don’t include connecting passengers. Texas had 6,212.

Southwest and rivals once priced one-way tickets within Texas below $50 but increased the fares over time, boosting profits. On Friday, the cheapest one-way fare available from Houston to Dallas was $109.30, according to a Google Flights search. Three major carriers now fly throughout the state.

Hawaiian’s lowest one-way inter-island fares priced Friday for off-peak travel ran from about $70 to $95.


-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
asteriskceo
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:20 pm

Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY
 
asteriskceo
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:02 pm

Looks like OAK-HNL initially with OAK-OGG starting mid April alongside OGG-HNL. No indication of anything else.
 
barney captain
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:12 pm

asteriskceo wrote:
Looks like OAK-HNL initially with OAK-OGG starting mid April alongside OGG-HNL. No indication of anything else.


That's pretty much what I'm guessing. The pilots schedules for April get posted on monday, so expect an announcement before then.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:27 pm

asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY

Thanks for the picture wow it's finally happening.
Flyguy
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smokeybandit
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:58 pm

Herb Time always amuses me.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:40 pm

Will the MAX7 be ETOPS certified by WN? And when does it come online at WN?
It would be awesome to see SNA and BUR service return since the AQ days. LAX already has 6 carriers on the LAX-HNL route.
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hiflyeras
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:11 am

asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY


This is likely proprietary information...you could possibly be fired for posting it.
 
usflyguy
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:02 am

hiflyeras wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY


This is likely proprietary information...you could possibly be fired for posting it.


The flight attendant bid packets for April are posted to 16,426 flight attendants... whom can all see this information and more.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
asteriskceo
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:48 am

hiflyeras wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY


This is likely proprietary information...you could possibly be fired for posting it.


Fortunately, I don’t work for WN.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:41 am

asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY


Interesting comments about the rotation of the aircraft:

https://beatofhawaii.com/southwest-hawa ... PWjwmaAYfY
 
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aloha73g
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:12 am

I'm very curious about what, if any, inflight service WN will attempt on 18 minute HNL-OGG flights. Not enought time for a standard full service. HA uses pre-packaged 4oz juice/water cups all day, and coffee in the morning as well. AQ used to serve the 4oz juice cups in the morning with coffee and also offered Coke/Diet Coke in the afternoon in addition to the juice. This is very exciting!!

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
AirFiero
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:04 am

asteriskceo wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY


This is likely proprietary information...you could possibly be fired for posting it.


Fortunately, I don’t work for WN.


Maybe they will hire you, so they can fire you? :lol: ;)
 
AirFiero
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:05 am

aloha73g wrote:
I'm very curious about what, if any, inflight service WN will attempt on 18 minute HNL-OGG flights. Not enought time for a standard full service. HA uses pre-packaged 4oz juice/water cups all day, and coffee in the morning as well. AQ used to serve the 4oz juice cups in the morning with coffee and also offered Coke/Diet Coke in the afternoon in addition to the juice. This is very exciting!!

-Aloha!


Wouldn’t it be simpler to offer snacks, coffee and sodas at the gate before the flight?
 
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aloha73g
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:22 am

AirFiero wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
I'm very curious about what, if any, inflight service WN will attempt on 18 minute HNL-OGG flights. Not enought time for a standard full service. HA uses pre-packaged 4oz juice/water cups all day, and coffee in the morning as well. AQ used to serve the 4oz juice cups in the morning with coffee and also offered Coke/Diet Coke in the afternoon in addition to the juice. This is very exciting!!

-Aloha!


Wouldn’t it be simpler to offer snacks, coffee and sodas at the gate before the flight?


Perhaps ... but the F/A's are onboard anyway and HA and AQ have proven for decades that you can do some sort of beverage service as long as its planned well, very organized and not overly complicated.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:56 am

nine4nine wrote:
Will the MAX7 be ETOPS certified by WN? And when does it come online at WN?
It would be awesome to see SNA and BUR service return since the AQ days. LAX already has 6 carriers on the LAX-HNL route.


WN has had to drop some nonstop routes such as SNA-AUS, SNA-MDW, SNA-MCI, SNA-PDX, SNA-STL, SNA-SFO, and SNA-SEA when it lost slots at SNA. WN is unlikely to add nonstop service to Hawaiian destinations from SNA in the near future unless slot restrictions and limits on the total number of passengers per year is loosened.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:42 am

asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY


If I read that bid sheet right, the frame that comes from OAK in the morning does two round trips to HNL during the day, then back to OGG, and finally back to OAK. That's puts to bed the "tag only vs. shuttle" debate. WN will fly interisland during the day, and RON in OAK (at least on bid sheet shown).
 
a/c dxer
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:31 am

WPvsMW wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY


If I read that bid sheet right, the frame that comes from OAK in the morning does two round trips to HNL during the day, then back to OGG, and finally back to OAK. That's puts to bed the "tag only vs. shuttle" debate. WN will fly interisland during the day, and RON in OAK (at least on bid sheet shown).



Will feel bad for those passengers waiting in Hawaii to fly interisland when those flights are delayed on the mainland. Hopefully will be few but it will happen.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:55 am

jplatts wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
Will the MAX7 be ETOPS certified by WN? And when does it come online at WN?
It would be awesome to see SNA and BUR service return since the AQ days. LAX already has 6 carriers on the LAX-HNL route.


WN has had to drop some nonstop routes such as SNA-AUS, SNA-MDW, SNA-MCI, SNA-PDX, SNA-STL, SNA-SFO, and SNA-SEA when it lost slots at SNA. WN is unlikely to add nonstop service to Hawaiian destinations from SNA in the near future unless slot restrictions and limits on the total number of passengers per year is loosened.


I bet if WN could cut two or three, intra-California flights, or a single PHX or LAS r/t & offer a couple of select Hawaii markets like HNL & OGG. Like AQ, they would likely enjoy a tidy premium. IIRC, AQ also got a premium, albeit smaller than SNA, flying from BUR to Hawaii. While the 73G wasn’t the ideal aircraft, the MAX-7 is much more economic aircraft.

IMHO, As many have suggested, WN skips offering LAX flights & hits their massive S. California customer base with non-stops from the alternate LA area airports to Hawaii, that currently have no service at all. WN will have a monopoly on Hawaii links from three LA basin airports that currently don’t have any, At ONT, SNA & BUR, WN will look like saviors.

I have friends near Pomona, but actually in LaVerne & they drive to ONT to fly, they regularly fly ONT-SFO-HNL/OGG/KOA/LIH instead of shlogging to LAX & going N/S. They would gladly fly WN, if it was non-stop from ONT.
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77H
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:13 pm

RWA380 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
Will the MAX7 be ETOPS certified by WN? And when does it come online at WN?
It would be awesome to see SNA and BUR service return since the AQ days. LAX already has 6 carriers on the LAX-HNL route.


WN has had to drop some nonstop routes such as SNA-AUS, SNA-MDW, SNA-MCI, SNA-PDX, SNA-STL, SNA-SFO, and SNA-SEA when it lost slots at SNA. WN is unlikely to add nonstop service to Hawaiian destinations from SNA in the near future unless slot restrictions and limits on the total number of passengers per year is loosened.


I bet if WN could cut two or three, intra-California flights, or a single PHX or LAS r/t & offer a couple of select Hawaii markets like HNL & OGG. Like AQ, they would likely enjoy a tidy premium. IIRC, AQ also got a premium, albeit smaller than SNA, flying from BUR to Hawaii. While the 73G wasn’t the ideal aircraft, the MAX-7 is much more economic aircraft.

IMHO, As many have suggested, WN skips offering LAX flights & hits their massive S. California customer base with non-stops from the alternate LA area airports to Hawaii, that currently have no service at all. WN will have a monopoly on Hawaii links from three LA basin airports that currently don’t have any, At ONT, SNA & BUR, WN will look like saviors.

I have friends near Pomona, but actually in LaVerne & they drive to ONT to fly, they regularly fly ONT-SFO-HNL/OGG/KOA/LIH instead of shlogging to LAX & going N/S. They would gladly fly WN, if it was non-stop from ONT.


My understanding is that SNA was profitable for AQ to/from all islands, even with the 73G. This may be a result of AQ operating out of niche markets prior to the US recession of ‘08-09 when they had a monopoly on secondary markets.

A decade later, AS and HA serve many of those secondary markets WN will need to penetrate. While WN may have the brand recognition and loyalty in California, HA and AS are very popular with Kama Aina here. While it’s true there are locals that would like HA to face some competition there are many that are optimistically skeptical of WN’s entry into the Hawaii market.

77H
 
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RWA380
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:51 pm

77H wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

WN has had to drop some nonstop routes such as SNA-AUS, SNA-MDW, SNA-MCI, SNA-PDX, SNA-STL, SNA-SFO, and SNA-SEA when it lost slots at SNA. WN is unlikely to add nonstop service to Hawaiian destinations from SNA in the near future unless slot restrictions and limits on the total number of passengers per year is loosened.


I bet if WN could cut two or three, intra-California flights, or a single PHX or LAS r/t & offer a couple of select Hawaii markets like HNL & OGG. Like AQ, they would likely enjoy a tidy premium. IIRC, AQ also got a premium, albeit smaller than SNA, flying from BUR to Hawaii. While the 73G wasn’t the ideal aircraft, the MAX-7 is much more economic aircraft.

IMHO, As many have suggested, WN skips offering LAX flights & hits their massive S. California customer base with non-stops from the alternate LA area airports to Hawaii, that currently have no service at all. WN will have a monopoly on Hawaii links from three LA basin airports that currently don’t have any, At ONT, SNA & BUR, WN will look like saviors.

I have friends near Pomona, but actually in LaVerne & they drive to ONT to fly, they regularly fly ONT-SFO-HNL/OGG/KOA/LIH instead of shlogging to LAX & going N/S. They would gladly fly WN, if it was non-stop from ONT.


My understanding is that SNA was profitable for AQ to/from all islands, even with the 73G. This may be a result of AQ operating out of niche markets prior to the US recession of ‘08-09 when they had a monopoly on secondary markets.

A decade later, AS and HA serve many of those secondary markets WN will need to penetrate. While WN may have the brand recognition and loyalty in California, HA and AS are very popular with Kama Aina here. While it’s true there are locals that would like HA to face some competition there are many that are optimistically skeptical of WN’s entry into the Hawaii market.

77H


Thanks for that perspective. I keep hearing how locals as so excited about WN flying Inter Island. I think after the initial dust settles, not much will have changed, because as has been discussed many times before, AAG enjoys a lower operating cost v Southwest. It is going to work, that in most markets there is going to be plenty of room for more than one carrier. I do wonder if WN flies n/s from ITO to the mainland, how long UA would stay?

I had also heard that SNA was the route that helped keep AQ flying as long as they did, but I also had heard, likely here, that BUR was also a profitable route. I can not remember hearing that any of the tags except LAS was profitable.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:33 pm

RWA380 wrote:
I think after the initial dust settles, not much will have changed, because as has been discussed many times before, AAG enjoys a lower operating cost v Southwest.


Nope. See, for example, ALK's 1Q19 Investor Day Presentation.

stage-length adjusted non-fuel CASM for 12 months ending 12/31/18:

WN, 8.12 cents per mile

AS, 8.93 cents per mile.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:13 pm

Interesting that after all the fuss about what could replace the 717 because of engine overheating, WN is going to do it with 737 8s, both NG and MAX, and what is further ironic they will all be ETOPS planes. Per the article a three day rotation - fly to Hawaii one day, inter-island hops the next, fly back the third day. Will they be able to add a hop or two the first and third day - ?
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aeropix
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:22 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
WN is going to do it with 737 8s, ... and what is further ironic they will all be ETOPS planes.


At my airline, the ETOPS pre-flight checks only have to be carried out prior to an actual ETOPS sector. They should be able to save a bit by doing only "normal" preflight checks for the inter island days.
 
osupoke07
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:33 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Interesting that after all the fuss about what could replace the 717 because of engine overheating, WN is going to do it with 737 8s, both NG and MAX, and what is further ironic they will all be ETOPS planes. Per the article a three day rotation - fly to Hawaii one day, inter-island hops the next, fly back the third day. Will they be able to add a hop or two the first and third day - ?


The fuss is that HA cannot replace the 717 with the 737 because they do many more inter-island trips, 10+ a day, and they have no long legs to give the engines time to cool. Southwest, at least from this one bid sheet, is only planning 2 inter-island trips before heading back out to Oakland. That is well within the 737 ability.
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BravoOne
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:55 pm

aloha73g wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
I'm very curious about what, if any, inflight service WN will attempt on 18 minute HNL-OGG flights. Not enought time for a standard full service. HA uses pre-packaged 4oz juice/water cups all day, and coffee in the morning as well. AQ used to serve the 4oz juice cups in the morning with coffee and also offered Coke/Diet Coke in the afternoon in addition to the juice. This is very exciting!!

-Aloha!


Wouldn’t it be simpler to offer snacks, coffee and sodas at the gate before the flight?


Perhaps ... but the F/A's are onboard anyway and HA and AQ have proven for decades that you can do some sort of beverage service as long as its planned well, very organized and not overly complicated.

-Aloha!


SWA beverage/snack service is extremely slow, so I would not expect them to handle this task well based on my experience flying the once or twice a week.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 480
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:07 pm

RWA380 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
Will the MAX7 be ETOPS certified by WN? And when does it come online at WN?
It would be awesome to see SNA and BUR service return since the AQ days. LAX already has 6 carriers on the LAX-HNL route.


WN has had to drop some nonstop routes such as SNA-AUS, SNA-MDW, SNA-MCI, SNA-PDX, SNA-STL, SNA-SFO, and SNA-SEA when it lost slots at SNA. WN is unlikely to add nonstop service to Hawaiian destinations from SNA in the near future unless slot restrictions and limits on the total number of passengers per year is loosened.


I bet if WN could cut two or three, intra-California flights, or a single PHX or LAS r/t & offer a couple of select Hawaii markets like HNL & OGG. Like AQ, they would likely enjoy a tidy premium. IIRC, AQ also got a premium, albeit smaller than SNA, flying from BUR to Hawaii. While the 73G wasn’t the ideal aircraft, the MAX-7 is much more economic aircraft.

IMHO, As many have suggested, WN skips offering LAX flights & hits their massive S. California customer base with non-stops from the alternate LA area airports to Hawaii, that currently have no service at all. WN will have a monopoly on Hawaii links from three LA basin airports that currently don’t have any, At ONT, SNA & BUR, WN will look like saviors.

I have friends near Pomona, but actually in LaVerne & they drive to ONT to fly, they regularly fly ONT-SFO-HNL/OGG/KOA/LIH instead of shlogging to LAX & going N/S. They would gladly fly WN, if it was non-stop from ONT.



I agree. Bypassing the overcrowded low yielding LAX for secondary markets would have been a much better call for WN. Hawaii flights from ONT/BUR/SNA would all have higher yields and ZERO competitors on the route compared to LAX’s 7 now including WN.

While SFO and two additional secondary Bay Area airports (SJC/OAK) all have Hawaii flights with more than 1 airline, outside of LAX the only secondary LA area market that sees any Hawaii service is the 1x daily HA at LGB. Surely anyone looking outside the LAX market can have market share and dominance in the routes along with higher yields.
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AirFiero
Posts: 1275
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:42 pm

aloha73g wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
I'm very curious about what, if any, inflight service WN will attempt on 18 minute HNL-OGG flights. Not enought time for a standard full service. HA uses pre-packaged 4oz juice/water cups all day, and coffee in the morning as well. AQ used to serve the 4oz juice cups in the morning with coffee and also offered Coke/Diet Coke in the afternoon in addition to the juice. This is very exciting!!

-Aloha!


Wouldn’t it be simpler to offer snacks, coffee and sodas at the gate before the flight?


Perhaps ... but the F/A's are onboard anyway and HA and AQ have proven for decades that you can do some sort of beverage service as long as its planned well, very organized and not overly complicated.

-Aloha!


Agreed, flight attendants do a great job especially on those short flights. But is it worth the trouble on a flight as short as 15 minutes?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:43 pm

Well pilot and FA bids are out for April 2019.
No SJC,SMF or SAN to Hawaii according to sources.
When will WN add these additional markets?

April fools fare rumors are $50 each way OAK-HNL and $8.08 HNL-OGG.
Only for April.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:44 pm

nine4nine wrote:
I agree. Bypassing the overcrowded low yielding LAX for secondary markets would have been a much better call for WN. Hawaii flights from ONT/BUR/SNA would all have higher yields and ZERO competitors on the route compared to LAX’s 7 now including WN.

While SFO and two additional secondary Bay Area airports (SJC/OAK) all have Hawaii flights with more than 1 airline, outside of LAX the only secondary LA area market that sees any Hawaii service is the 1x daily HA at LGB. Surely anyone looking outside the LAX market can have market share and dominance in the routes along with higher yields.


Is there any way that WN can get the slot restrictions at SNA and the limits on the total number of passengers per year at SNA loosened? While I agree that WN could add nonstop service to Hawaiian destinations from SNA, WN is currently limited at SNA due to the slot restrictions at SNA and the limits on the total number of passengers per year at SNA.

There are expansion opportunities for WN at SNA beyond Hawaii if WN can get the slot restrictions and capacity restrictions at SNA loosened, including the return of SNA-AUS, SNA-MDW, SNA-MCI, SNA-PDX, and SNA-STL nonstop service and the addition of SNA-BWI, SNA-BNA, and SNA-SAT nonstop service.

BUR and LAX are both almost equidistant from Downtown LA, and BUR is a viable alternative to LAX if there is enough O&D demand for BUR to Hawaii nonstop service on WN. On the other hand, there are some destinations that WN currently serves nonstop from LAX but not from BUR, and there would be more connecting opportunities to destinations east of the West Coast at LAX on WN than there are at BUR.

WN's nonstop routes out of BUR are actually in competition against nonstop routes out of LAX on other airlines, similar to WN nonstop routes out of MDW being in competition with nonstop routes out of ORD on other airlines, WN nonstop routes out of DAL being in competition with nonstop routes out of DFW on other airlines, most of WN's nonstop routes out of FLL being in competition with AA nonstop routes out of MIA, WN nonstop routes out of HOU being in competition with nonstop routes out of IAH on other airlines, and some of WN's nonstop routes out of BWI being in competition with nonstop routes out of DCA on other airlines.

While WN adding nonstop service to Hawaii out of BUR would be in actual competition with nonstop service to Hawaii out of LAX on AA, UA, DL, AS, and HA due to both airports being almost equidistant from downtown LA, there are some travelers in the San Fernando Valley who would choose WN nonstops out of BUR over flying out of LAX or connecting to Hawaii if WN adds nonstop service to Hawaii out of BUR.

I agree that WN could further expand at ONT, and WN could add nonstop service to BWI, HNL, HOU, OGG, MCI, BNA, STL, and SLC out of ONT.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1275
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:49 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY


If I read that bid sheet right, the frame that comes from OAK in the morning does two round trips to HNL during the day, then back to OGG, and finally back to OAK. That's puts to bed the "tag only vs. shuttle" debate. WN will fly interisland during the day, and RON in OAK (at least on bid sheet shown).


Look at the dates. The flight from OAK to OGG is on one day (Apr 27), and all of the inter island hops are on the following day. This seems like a brilliant way to isolate the inter island flights from delays on the mainland interfering with inter island flights.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1275
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:51 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well pilot and FA bids are out for April 2019.
No SJC,SMF or SAN to Hawaii according to sources.
When will WN add these additional markets?

April fools fare rumors are $50 each way OAK-HNL and $8.08 HNL-OGG.
Only for April.

Flyguy


Has this guy gotten ANY of his proported rumors right?
 
ScottB
Posts: 6592
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:53 pm

nine4nine wrote:
Bypassing the overcrowded low yielding LAX for secondary markets would have been a much better call for WN. Hawaii flights from ONT/BUR/SNA would all have higher yields and ZERO competitors on the route compared to LAX’s 7 now including WN.


LAX isn't in the list of cities for which WN has announced Hawaii service, and comments have been made about how WN doesn't have enough LAX gates for it and feels that particular market is already crowded.

aloha73g wrote:
I'm very curious about what, if any, inflight service WN will attempt on 18 minute HNL-OGG flights. Not enought time for a standard full service. HA uses pre-packaged 4oz juice/water cups all day, and coffee in the morning as well. AQ used to serve the 4oz juice cups in the morning with coffee and also offered Coke/Diet Coke in the afternoon in addition to the juice.


If WN doesn't use the pre-packaged cups, I can see them doing a tray service with two or three flight attendants in the aisle handing out a limited selection (i.e. water, juice, Coke, Diet Coke) and one or two in the galley(s) pouring the drinks.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2038
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:35 pm

AirFiero wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
asteriskceo wrote:
Positions in open time have begun appearing in the flight attendant’s scheduling software starting April 1st. However, a March 15th start date is rumored Here is a sample pairing that indicates inter island flights will go on sale from the start: https://ibb.co/8YFCdtY


If I read that bid sheet right, the frame that comes from OAK in the morning does two round trips to HNL during the day, then back to OGG, and finally back to OAK. That's puts to bed the "tag only vs. shuttle" debate. WN will fly interisland during the day, and RON in OAK (at least on bid sheet shown).


Look at the dates. The flight from OAK to OGG is on one day (Apr 27), and all of the inter island hops are on the following day. This seems like a brilliant way to isolate the inter island flights from delays on the mainland interfering with inter island flights.


You are correct. I think the "interisland day" will see additional interisland flights. Not 20 turns a day....but 10 turns a day, low enough to avoid the MX hit from inadequate cooling at cruise.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Why did they wait all these years to start Hawaii-flights from West Coast when they could have done it with their 737-700s? (get ETOPS etc)..It's not like these planes don't have the range..
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2038
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:44 pm

WN confirms interisland competition with HA.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/03/ ... tive-says/
 
barney captain
Posts: 2194
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:54 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well pilot and FA bids are out for April 2019.
No SJC,SMF or SAN to Hawaii according to sources.
When will WN add these additional markets?

April fools fare rumors are $50 each way OAK-HNL and $8.08 HNL-OGG.
Only for April.

Flyguy

Once again you post inaccurate information. The pilots schedules are not out until the 4th.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
texasdoc
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:42 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:17 pm

AirFiero wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well pilot and FA bids are out for April 2019.
No SJC,SMF or SAN to Hawaii according to sources.
When will WN add these additional markets?

April fools fare rumors are $50 each way OAK-HNL and $8.08 HNL-OGG.
Only for April.

Flyguy


Has this guy gotten ANY of his proported rumors right?




I think his "source" is just his very optimistic imagination.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1670
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:28 pm

texasdoc wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well pilot and FA bids are out for April 2019.
No SJC,SMF or SAN to Hawaii according to sources.
When will WN add these additional markets?

April fools fare rumors are $50 each way OAK-HNL and $8.08 HNL-OGG.
Only for April.

Flyguy


Has this guy gotten ANY of his proported rumors right?




I think his "source" is just his very optimistic imagination.


But I did stay at a Holiday day INN last night!

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Redbellyguppy
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:31 pm

If he was really an insider he could look in crew web to see when service starts to various destinations. It’s not at all what he claims.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2773
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:04 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well pilot and FA bids are out for April 2019.
No SJC,SMF or SAN to Hawaii according to sources.
When will WN add these additional markets?

April fools fare rumors are $50 each way OAK-HNL and $8.08 HNL-OGG.
Only for April.

Flyguy

Once again you post inaccurate information. The pilots schedules are not out until the 4th.


I know a WN pilot that has seen the schedules (a week or so ago). So they are out. I just didn’t and still don’t want to post details (start dates etc) because I was asked not to. But I know they are out to find if someone else feels like saying and has access.

EDIT: I hadn’t backread everything. I see some have been posted.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2194
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:39 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well pilot and FA bids are out for April 2019.
No SJC,SMF or SAN to Hawaii according to sources.
When will WN add these additional markets?

April fools fare rumors are $50 each way OAK-HNL and $8.08 HNL-OGG.
Only for April.

Flyguy

Once again you post inaccurate information. The pilots schedules are not out until the 4th.


I know a WN pilot that has seen the schedules (a week or so ago). So they are out. I just didn’t and still don’t want to post details (start dates etc) because I was asked not to. But I know they are out to find if someone else feels like saying and has access.

EDIT: I hadn’t backread everything. I see some have been posted.


I too know a Southwest pilot....and the schedules for April are absolutely not out until the 4th of March. I'm referring to the pilot schedules, , or roster as it's known
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13844
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:57 pm

BravoOne wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

Wouldn’t it be simpler to offer snacks, coffee and sodas at the gate before the flight?


Perhaps ... but the F/A's are onboard anyway and HA and AQ have proven for decades that you can do some sort of beverage service as long as its planned well, very organized and not overly complicated.

-Aloha!


SWA beverage/snack service is extremely slow, so I would not expect them to handle this task well based on my experience flying the once or twice a week.


They’ve added (added back in some cases) a tremendous number of flights with 30-35 minutes above 10,000 feet in the past few years. They can get the full drink service done that quickly if the flight length requries it. On longer flights, they wait until cruise and move more slowly.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2038
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:12 am

Only HNL/ITO would give them that much time... and there are no announced plans to serve ITO.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2773
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:34 am

barney captain wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
barney captain wrote:
Once again you post inaccurate information. The pilots schedules are not out until the 4th.


I know a WN pilot that has seen the schedules (a week or so ago). So they are out. I just didn’t and still don’t want to post details (start dates etc) because I was asked not to. But I know they are out to find if someone else feels like saying and has access.

EDIT: I hadn’t backread everything. I see some have been posted.


I too know a Southwest pilot....and the schedules for April are absolutely not out until the 4th of March. I'm referring to the pilot schedules, , or roster as it's known


Maybe there are different documents (like the one someone posted). I don't know what goes into each aspect but they knew the schedules. Maybe they weren't official pilot schedules but it was enough to know what routes were running and when.
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1935
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:38 am

Cubsrule wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
aloha73g wrote:

Perhaps ... but the F/A's are onboard anyway and HA and AQ have proven for decades that you can do some sort of beverage service as long as its planned well, very organized and not overly complicated.

-Aloha!


SWA beverage/snack service is extremely slow, so I would not expect them to handle this task well based on my experience flying the once or twice a week.


They’ve added (added back in some cases) a tremendous number of flights with 30-35 minutes above 10,000 feet in the past few years. They can get the full drink service done that quickly if the flight length requries it. On longer flights, they wait until cruise and move more slowly.

HNL-LIH and HNL-OGG are 100 miles. I’ve timed both at under 18 minutes from takeoff to touchdown on occasion. My fastest was LIH-HNL in 16:30. HNL-ITO is barely 35 minutes from takeoff to touchdown.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13844
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:52 am

aloha73g wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
BravoOne wrote:

SWA beverage/snack service is extremely slow, so I would not expect them to handle this task well based on my experience flying the once or twice a week.


They’ve added (added back in some cases) a tremendous number of flights with 30-35 minutes above 10,000 feet in the past few years. They can get the full drink service done that quickly if the flight length requries it. On longer flights, they wait until cruise and move more slowly.

HNL-LIH and HNL-OGG are 100 miles. I’ve timed both at under 18 minutes from takeoff to touchdown on occasion. My fastest was LIH-HNL in 16:30. HNL-ITO is barely 35 minutes from takeoff to touchdown.

-Aloha!


Yup. Full drink service would be tough; I was simply addressing the incorrect suggestion that they are slow on short flights. I expect they’ll do something close to what AQ did (3 or 4 prepoured options on trays). The fact that they are accustomed to tray service will make it somewhat easier.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 776
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:16 am

Will feel bad for those passengers waiting in Hawaii to fly interisland when those flights are delayed on the mainland. Hopefully will be few but it will happen.


I'm wondering of SW wouldn't keep a spare bird in the island, engines cooling, for just such an eventuality. They've said that planes won't be permanently based there, but that doesn't mean that the first plane to land must do the very next triangle leg from HNL to OGG, for example. A plane could overnight and take that leg, or one from earlier in the day, making sure that the interisland stuff gets covered. Every flight makes its departure, and every engine has time to cool. At any rate, we'll see. I agree, things are very different on the mainland where there are hundreds of potential spares or rerouted planes available at some point. On the islands, though, folks will have to wait for the 737s to cross that big lake before the interisland flight can even start.
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1935
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:58 am

Cubsrule wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

They’ve added (added back in some cases) a tremendous number of flights with 30-35 minutes above 10,000 feet in the past few years. They can get the full drink service done that quickly if the flight length requries it. On longer flights, they wait until cruise and move more slowly.

HNL-LIH and HNL-OGG are 100 miles. I’ve timed both at under 18 minutes from takeoff to touchdown on occasion. My fastest was LIH-HNL in 16:30. HNL-ITO is barely 35 minutes from takeoff to touchdown.

-Aloha!


Yup. Full drink service would be tough; I was simply addressing the incorrect suggestion that they are slow on short flights. I expect they’ll do something close to what AQ did (3 or 4 prepoured options on trays). The fact that they are accustomed to tray service will make it somewhat easier.

I’m very excited to see how they do it!! I loved AQ and 737s interisland with open seating. I plan to be on one of the first flights to see for myself.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
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