flyswatter
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:07 pm

Bookings have quietly opened this morning. Flights start St. Patrick's Day (3/17)...$49 one way
 
iflykpdx
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:39 pm

OAK - HNL starts 3/17
OAK - OGG - 4/7
SJC - HNL - 5/5
SJC - OGG - 5/26

Seems they aren't ready to announce SAN or SMF routes yet.
Airport Management - UND
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:07 pm

MAH4546 wrote:

They are not starting service to Hawai'i in three weeks. That's inane. I don't even know understand you would believe that "rumor."


Correct. More like 2.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:13 pm

Wow First flight on Saint Patrick's Day to Hawaii. And $49 dollar fares.
Yep that Flyguy always wrong.

It's ok to say your welcome!

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
ajlombardi2
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:32 pm

No San :(. Hope they just haven’t pushed the button yet?
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:25 pm

WN's sales of Hawaii service (OAK/OGG and SJC/HNL) started today. Intro fare: $49 OW
Including HNL/OGG 4x daily!! Intro fare: $29 OW.
HNL/KOA to start in May, but silent on CONUS/KOA.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/03/ ... his-month/

Will HA match? Do they have any choice?
 
tphuang
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:48 pm

It's going to be really hard for HA and AS to fill up their flights out of OAK/SJC this summer.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:19 pm

WN in Hawaii is so uncannily parallel to what Braniff did in Texas when WN gained traction there back in the 1970s, except this time WN is Braniff— the entrenched big guy— role reversal 50 years later. The episode is a legendary Harvard Business School case study about how WN outlasted big bad Braniff. Good lessons for Hawaiian in the case study on how they can try to win, but it won’t be cheap or easy.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:41 pm

Don't you mean "HA is Braniff - the entrenched big guy"?
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:12 pm

2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:12 pm

ncflyer wrote:
WN in Hawaii is so uncannily parallel to what Braniff did in Texas when WN gained traction there back in the 1970s, except this time WN is Braniff— the entrenched big guy— role reversal 50 years later. The episode is a legendary Harvard Business School case study about how WN outlasted big bad Braniff. Good lessons for Hawaiian in the case study on how they can try to win, but it won’t be cheap or easy.

HA can hand out Chavis Regal to full fare passengers
 
osupoke07
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:27 pm

Based on the press release, the $49 one way fares are only bookable today and tomorrow. I'm guessing the fares are going to jump up quite a bit on March 6, but this will give WN enough positive press for the market entry.
MD82, MD83, MD88, B717, B732, B733, B735, B737, B738, B739, B752, B763, B77W, CR2, CR7, CR9, A320, A321
 
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spinotter
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:32 pm

ncflyer wrote:
WN in Hawaii is so uncannily parallel to what Braniff did in Texas when WN gained traction there back in the 1970s, except this time WN is Braniff— the entrenched big guy— role reversal 50 years later. The episode is a legendary Harvard Business School case study about how WN outlasted big bad Braniff. Good lessons for Hawaiian in the case study on how they can try to win, but it won’t be cheap or easy.


If they bring down the fares and increase passenger numbers to, from, and within the state of Hawaii what is the problem.
 
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haynflyer
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:35 pm

Indeed, I only saw one day where the fare was offered earlier this morning and am sure it is gone by now. Their regular fares aren't much different than what is already out there. Last week I booked HNL-SFO-HNL in May on UA for $408 and SW's fares look higher than that. Just tried to book inter-island online and got an error message stating that the reservation must be made via phone. Happy to see competition in the market though.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln
 
MrBretz
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:38 pm

Just looked for travel in October from SAN. Outbound $200+, return(after moving around date to find cheapest) more than $400. This sounds like normal HA, UA, AA, etc. fares. I know this will all stabilize over time.
 
barney captain
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:38 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Wow First flight on Saint Patrick's Day to Hawaii. And $49 dollar fares.
Yep that Flyguy always wrong.

It's ok to say your welcome!

Flyguy


Unbelievable. You post more inaccuracy than anyone on this subject and you somehow feel vindicated?

I’d quote all the things you were miles off base on but that would require its own thread.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:27 am

barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Wow First flight on Saint Patrick's Day to Hawaii. And $49 dollar fares.
Yep that Flyguy always wrong.

It's ok to say your welcome!

Flyguy


Unbelievable. You post more inaccuracy than anyone on this subject and you somehow feel vindicated?

I’d quote all the things you were miles off base on but that would require its own thread.


Hahahahaha tell me how you really feel.
As Always in good clean arm chair quarter back fun.
I've Always posted EVERY rumor, talk and speculation about WN.
Do I feel vindicated Not by a mile.


Aloha Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
deltaffindfw
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:45 am

Southwest effect in play. I just booked DFW-OGG n/s for June 7 (Friday to Tuesday) for $278 on AA.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:54 am

I plugged everything into OASIS.

Looks like at minimum its 11 planes for Hawai'i for June.

Oasis likes to link flights as best it can, so a few of the lines are probably NOT what WN will be doing, but we at least can see how the flows between transpac and inter-island are linked.

http://www.mivuelo.net/wnflows.png

(can't seem to post it as an image)
xx
 
fly4ever78
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:03 am

They must be making TONS of money with fares like that??!! I think they might be in for an eye opener with their inter-island flying though. Will be an interesting show to watch for sure!
 
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usxguy
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:04 am

And here's the timetable for JUNE.

FROM HONOLULU, OAHU; HI [HNL]

TO KAHULUI, MAUI; HI [OGG]
0935 1025 6299 DAILY 0
1250 1345 338 DAILY 0
1610 1700 390 DAILY 0
1845 1935 319 DAILY 0

TO KONA, HI [KOA]
0810 0905 216 DAILY 0
1150 1245 229 DAILY 0
1525 1625 240 DAILY 0
1925 2025 407 DAILY 0

TO OAKLAND, CA [OAK]
0930 1740 6565 DAILY 0
1530 2345 132 DAILY 0

TO SAN JOSE, CA [SJC]
1310 2115 225 DAILY 0

FROM KAHULUI, MAUI; HI [OGG]

TO HONOLULU, OAHU; HI [HNL]
0800 0850 325 DAILY 0
1115 1205 330 DAILY 0
1430 1520 351 DAILY 0
1750 1835 394 DAILY 0

TO OAKLAND, CA [OAK]
0915 1720 207 DAILY 0
1640 0035+1 168 DAILY 0

TO SAN JOSE, CA [SJC]
1440 2235 227 DAILY 0

FROM KONA, HI [KOA]

TO HONOLULU, OAHU; HI [HNL]
0700 0745 122 DAILY 0
1000 1055 224 DAILY 0
1335 1435 231 DAILY 0
1715 1810 248 DAILY 0

FROM OAKLAND, CA [OAK]

TO HONOLULU, OAHU; HI [HNL]
0830 1100 808 DAILY 0
1740 2010 128 DAILY 0

TO KAHULUI, MAUI; HI [OGG]
1030 1255 6533 DAILY 0
1730 1955 145 DAILY 0

FROM SAN JOSE, CA [SJC]

TO HONOLULU, OAHU; HI [HNL]
1115 1345 395 DAILY 0

TO KAHULUI, MAUI; HI [OGG]
1235 1455 321 DAILY 0

END OF REPORT
Last edited by usxguy on Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
xx
 
Abeam79
Posts: 298
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:13 am

Wow, wn is going to lose their shirts with the fares and sched they are putting out. Good luck to them!
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:28 am

I find it funny how so many complain about them serving junk food. Do American and United serve better food? Last time I flew, I was only given a small bag of pretzels on AA.
 
Chemist
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:55 am

Ziyulu wrote:
I find it funny how so many complain about them serving junk food. Do American and United serve better food? Last time I flew, I was only given a small bag of pretzels on AA.


They serve tighter legroom and bag charges. Oh and change fees. The supposed "full service" airlines.
 
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Jetsgo
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:01 am

So where’s SAN and SMF?
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
ericm2031
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:53 am

So they have 32 inch pitch at every seat, 2 free bags per passenger (each way), a snack bag (which will include Wheat Thins, pretzels, cheese spread, fruit snacks and Tic Tacs). $8 gate-to-gate wifi. No change fees.

They definitely are offering a pretty attractive package.

For a large family, if money is saved, that's more money for their vacation and for the Hawaii tourism market.

I wonder how many spare planes WN will keep on the islands.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:26 am

Ziyulu wrote:
I find it funny how so many complain about them serving junk food. Do American and United serve better food? Last time I flew, I was only given a small bag of pretzels on AA.


United, American, Delta, and Alaska generally have the option of something along the lines of a sandwich, wrap, or salad for purchase, providing the option of something amounting to a light meal and a bit more substantial than a snack box (which may also be available for purchase on those airlines). Hawaiian offers a free hot meal.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:45 am

barney captain wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Wow First flight on Saint Patrick's Day to Hawaii. And $49 dollar fares.
Yep that Flyguy always wrong.

It's ok to say your welcome!

Flyguy


Unbelievable. You post more inaccuracy than anyone on this subject and you somehow feel vindicated?

I’d quote all the things you were miles off base on but that would require its own thread.


We can file it next to F9's dartboard. ;)
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:27 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I find it funny how so many complain about them serving junk food. Do American and United serve better food? Last time I flew, I was only given a small bag of pretzels on AA.


United, American, Delta, and Alaska generally have the option of something along the lines of a sandwich, wrap, or salad for purchase, providing the option of something amounting to a light meal and a bit more substantial than a snack box (which may also be available for purchase on those airlines). Hawaiian offers a free hot meal.


Last time I flew with them from SFO to AUS, by the time the cart reached me (seated around the middle of the plane), everything was sold out.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:38 pm

Is it just me or is anybody else seeing most flights OAK-HNL sold out already???

Obviously I expected the $49 fares to be gone - but I certainly didn’t expect the entire plane to be sold out. For the end of March and into April, most days are telling me sold out. But... the reason I don’t believe it, is that the return HNL-OAK seems to be bookable any day, but the outbound is entirely sold out? WN website glitch?
 
tphuang
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:14 pm

fly4ever78 wrote:
They must be making TONS of money with fares like that??!! I think they might be in for an eye opener with their inter-island flying though. Will be an interesting show to watch for sure!

The inter-island stuff is weird. HA is not overcharging on those flights from what I can see. I'm sure WN is just running them to getting higher utilization since they don't do red-eye, but hard to see how those routes won't just bleed money.

MrBretz wrote:
Just looked for travel in October from SAN. Outbound $200+, return(after moving around date to find cheapest) more than $400. This sounds like normal HA, UA, AA, etc. fares. I know this will all stabilize over time.

That's months away and requires connection.

OAK is getting almost double the capacity to HI by this summer. Airlines are going to adjust pricing 3 months out to match the demand. The fares will be suppressed out of OAK/SJC for a long time.
 
mga707
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:40 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
Is it just me or is anybody else seeing most flights OAK-HNL sold out already???

Obviously I expected the $49 fares to be gone - but I certainly didn’t expect the entire plane to be sold out. For the end of March and into April, most days are telling me sold out. But... the reason I don’t believe it, is that the return HNL-OAK seems to be bookable any day, but the outbound is entirely sold out? WN website glitch?


For me it was the opposite: Still quite a few days with seats available in March/April for OAK-HNL, but very few left on the HNL-OAK return.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:18 pm

Do you think AA and UA will start serving meals on Hawaii flights to compete?
 
mga707
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:25 pm

So the KOA service is so far all HNL 'tags'. Any rumor as to when direct KOA-mainland service will start?
 
mcdu
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:33 pm

mga707 wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
Is it just me or is anybody else seeing most flights OAK-HNL sold out already???

Obviously I expected the $49 fares to be gone - but I certainly didn’t expect the entire plane to be sold out. For the end of March and into April, most days are telling me sold out. But... the reason I don’t believe it, is that the return HNL-OAK seems to be bookable any day, but the outbound is entirely sold out? WN website glitch?


For me it was the opposite: Still quite a few days with seats available in March/April for OAK-HNL, but very few left on the HNL-OAK return.


You are going to see very little if any traffic booking Hawaii mainland returns. The people leaving the islands are going to places that WN doesn’t serve without arduous routings or timing. What you are seeing is the local California tourist traffic booking their returns to the west coast from Hawaii.

I seriously doubt WN’s success in Hawaii. They are not connecting enough people to onward from Hawaii and this is going to erode their viability.

Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.

Also what happens when the airplane on an inter island flight has a maintenance issue. With one flight a day in the market and no interline agreement how do they get the customers where they need to be? Same goes for the west coast Hawaii flights. No agreements means reaccomodation is going to be a rude awakening for those WN customers.

There isn’t gold at the end of the rainbow for WN in Hawaii.
 
MrBretz
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:55 pm

mcdu makes a good point with "Also what happens when the airplane on an inter island flight has a maintenance issue. With one flight a day in the market and no interline agreement how do they get the customers where they need to be? Same goes for the west coast Hawaii flights. No agreements means reaccomodation is going to be a rude awakening for those WN customers."

Hopefully, this happens infrequently.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2006
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:12 pm

So please correct me if I'm wrong. Is it true that WN's Rapid Rewards has no restrictions on the number of seats on each flight that can be redeemed? If true, all of those 'sold out' flights might be flying with a handful of people paying $49 and the rest flying for free. Ouch. Of course we'll likely never know as they won't separate out the Hawaii revenue from the rest, especially if they are losing their shirt. No one else even bothered to match those intro fares and booking out their fares are seemingly no different than AS, UA or HA.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
fly4ever78 wrote:
They must be making TONS of money with fares like that??!! I think they might be in for an eye opener with their inter-island flying though. Will be an interesting show to watch for sure!

The inter-island stuff is weird. HA is not overcharging on those flights from what I can see. I'm sure WN is just running them to getting higher utilization since they don't do red-eye, but hard to see how those routes won't just bleed money.

MrBretz wrote:
Just looked for travel in October from SAN. Outbound $200+, return(after moving around date to find cheapest) more than $400. This sounds like normal HA, UA, AA, etc. fares. I know this will all stabilize over time.

That's months away and requires connection.

OAK is getting almost double the capacity to HI by this summer. Airlines are going to adjust pricing 3 months out to match the demand. The fares will be suppressed out of OAK/SJC for a long time.


What do we think about the premise that WNs presence will *add* people to the market that wouldn’t normally have gone to Hawaii? Occasional fare offers that are so low, some people say hey let’s go to Hawaii, we can afford that fare? Is it possible WNs presence will expand the market?

Anyway, it is interesting that they are rolling out service over a more protracted period of time than I thought they would. I figured they would “storm the market”. But in reality, they seem to be entering like they often do, slow but steady build up. SAN, SMF and LIH “coming soon”. This will be interesting to watch.
 
tphuang
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:25 pm

AirFiero wrote:

What do we think about the premise that WNs presence will *add* people to the market that wouldn’t normally have gone to Hawaii? Occasional fare offers that are so low, some people say hey let’s go to Hawaii, we can afford that fare? Is it possible WNs presence will expand the market?

Anyway, it is interesting that they are rolling out service over a more protracted period of time than I thought they would. I figured they would “storm the market”. But in reality, they seem to be entering like they often do, slow but steady build up. SAN, SMF and LIH “coming soon”. This will be interesting to watch.

That's exactly what I think will happen. OAK/SJC fares are going to be lower to fill all the new capacities entering the market. Especially SJC and SAN, since AS will defend these 2 markets aggressively.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:33 pm

Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.


Um, no. Every Hawaiian local or native I've spoken to, either there or here in the local and growing Polynesian/Hawaiian communities here in Southern California are all dreaming of Southwest's arrival into the market. Yes, there's a lot of local loyalty to HA, but there is also a fair amount of resentment over the price gouging on the interisland fares. These lower Southwest fares will allow them to travel back to the islands and visit their families far more easily. Given the choice between what HA and the Big 3 have been charging and what SW is apparently offering, no amount of local loyalty will win out. The fact that a plane has "Hawaiian." painted on the side won't matter if the airfare is too high for the average Hawaiian local or native. It just won't.
 
ScottB
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:06 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
So please correct me if I'm wrong. Is it true that WN's Rapid Rewards has no restrictions on the number of seats on each flight that can be redeemed? If true, all of those 'sold out' flights might be flying with a handful of people paying $49 and the rest flying for free. Ouch.


Sure, but the seats available for award redemption are revenue managed just like revenue seats -- so if the cash price is relatively high, the points price will also be high. RR points, just like miles for the other airlines' programs, sit on the balance sheet as a liability and that liability is reduced when award tickets are redeemed/flown. If they don't get spent on a flight to Hawai'i, they probably get spent to LAS or MCO or SJD or wherever. Being able to use RR points to Hawai'i also makes WN a more attractive choice for California travelers and it also makes their loyalty credit card (for which they get a cut of the card revenue) more appealing.

hawaiian717 wrote:
United, American, Delta, and Alaska generally have the option of something along the lines of a sandwich, wrap, or salad for purchase, providing the option of something amounting to a light meal and a bit more substantial than a snack box (which may also be available for purchase on those airlines).


But in all those cases, there's the "* for an additional charge..." attached. Anyone remotely familiar with WN's product (which would be most customers, since most book directly with WN) knows they don't serve meals. And WN isn't pretending to be a full-service airline: they have a well-defined product with limited frills and very few "gotcha" fees. If you want 30" seat pitch, bag fees, change fees (or even tickets which can't be changed), book AA/DL/UA/AS to the islands.

mcdu wrote:
Also what happens when the airplane on an inter island flight has a maintenance issue. With one flight a day in the market and no interline agreement how do they get the customers where they need to be? Same goes for the west coast Hawaii flights. No agreements means reaccomodation is going to be a rude awakening for those WN customers.


Well, you've already said there will be no one on the flights because there's already too much capacity in the market and no one in Hawai'i cares about WN coming to the islands, right? So there will be hardly anyone to reaccommodate and they can just put them on the next flight. At least they don't "reaccommodate" passengers in the same way United does!

mcdu wrote:
Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.


Go! had low labor costs but was using very high-cost equipment. They weren't a low-cost operation by any stretch of the imagination. WN will very likely have lower unit costs inter-island than HA thanks to the much larger equipment gauge (175 seats vs. 125 seats) although their yields will also be lower due to more seats to fill and less attractive schedule, as well as poorer brand recognition. But you've already said that no one in Hawai'i cares about WN flying there so there's absolutely no threat to HA.
 
tphuang
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:11 pm

I don't understand how anyone can say that all this additional capacities to HI is not going to be a threat to HA. Have people missed out on all the attempted price matching that's already been going on since yesterday? This is great for consumers. Of course, they are not matching $99 R/T out of OAK, but AA is price matching even on DFW-HNL/OGG. I don't see how that can possibly not hurt other carrier's yields.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:23 pm

tphuang wrote:
OAK/SJC fares are going to be lower to fill all the new capacities entering the market. Especially SJC and SAN, since AS will defend these 2 markets aggressively.

I 'm not sure what you mean by "AS will defend [SAN & SJC] aggressively." Capacity increases? Massive fare reductions? Enhanced in-flight service?

So far, I've seen AS do nothing unusual for this summer in the SAN-HI markets - daily service to all 4 islands (including the Big Island) but that was also done last year and the other 3 islands have seen daily summer service for many seasons now. I'm not aware of anything in the other categories that's been advertised either.

It looks to me like AS is pretty unconcerned nor interested in the least at WN's expected entrance into the San Diego-Hawaii market. (Likewise, I see no reactions from HA either.) Maybe they, like me, are wondering if WN is still entering either the SAN or SMF markets any time soon.

AS has, in the past, offered as much as daily-double summer service between SAN and OGG. I keep waiting to see if they might at least be "aggressive" at least in that market. Nope.

AS will be presenting at the J.P. Morgan-Stanley Trans. Conference in NYC in less than an hour (link to announcement: https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2019-02- ... Conference .) I'm sure tuning in to that to see if AS is either concerned or planning any aggressive action in their HI markets!

bb
 
WN732
Posts: 528
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:59 pm

mcdu wrote:
mga707 wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
Is it just me or is anybody else seeing most flights OAK-HNL sold out already???

Obviously I expected the $49 fares to be gone - but I certainly didn’t expect the entire plane to be sold out. For the end of March and into April, most days are telling me sold out. But... the reason I don’t believe it, is that the return HNL-OAK seems to be bookable any day, but the outbound is entirely sold out? WN website glitch?


For me it was the opposite: Still quite a few days with seats available in March/April for OAK-HNL, but very few left on the HNL-OAK return.


You are going to see very little if any traffic booking Hawaii mainland returns. The people leaving the islands are going to places that WN doesn’t serve without arduous routings or timing. What you are seeing is the local California tourist traffic booking their returns to the west coast from Hawaii.

I seriously doubt WN’s success in Hawaii. They are not connecting enough people to onward from Hawaii and this is going to erode their viability.

Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.

Also what happens when the airplane on an inter island flight has a maintenance issue. With one flight a day in the market and no interline agreement how do they get the customers where they need to be? Same goes for the west coast Hawaii flights. No agreements means reaccomodation is going to be a rude awakening for those WN customers.

There isn’t gold at the end of the rainbow for WN in Hawaii.


Oh god here we go with the melancholy rhetoric. I think the fact that all flights are sold out is a sign of the massive support that their base is giving. Really, Alaska is going to suffer the most out of this, but HA, UA, AA, and even DL are going to feel it. GO! was a POS airline that no one wanted to fly, and Mesa their parent company is still a POS airline; yet GO! lasted quite a while. WN also has a very good product with $8 WiFi and free messaging/movies/TV and 32 inches of pitch. They also will give more as far as free snacks than UA and AA do.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:05 pm

WN732 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
mga707 wrote:

For me it was the opposite: Still quite a few days with seats available in March/April for OAK-HNL, but very few left on the HNL-OAK return.


You are going to see very little if any traffic booking Hawaii mainland returns. The people leaving the islands are going to places that WN doesn’t serve without arduous routings or timing. What you are seeing is the local California tourist traffic booking their returns to the west coast from Hawaii.

I seriously doubt WN’s success in Hawaii. They are not connecting enough people to onward from Hawaii and this is going to erode their viability.

Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.

Also what happens when the airplane on an inter island flight has a maintenance issue. With one flight a day in the market and no interline agreement how do they get the customers where they need to be? Same goes for the west coast Hawaii flights. No agreements means reaccomodation is going to be a rude awakening for those WN customers.

There isn’t gold at the end of the rainbow for WN in Hawaii.


Oh god here we go with the melancholy rhetoric. I think the fact that all flights are sold out is a sign of the massive support that their base is giving. Really, Alaska is going to suffer the most out of this, but HA, UA, AA, and even DL are going to feel it. GO! was a POS airline that no one wanted to fly, and Mesa their parent company is still a POS airline; yet GO! lasted quite a while. WN also has a very good product with $8 WiFi and free messaging/movies/TV and 32 inches of pitch. They also will give more as far as free snacks than UA and AA do.


Does that $8 WiFi work off satellite? If not they won’t have internet over the ocean.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:08 pm

I think that airborne wifi systems all have failover to satellite in case the terrestrial feed is too weak. So... WN over the Pacific should be no different than WN over the desert.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4570
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:16 pm

mcdu wrote:
WN732 wrote:
mcdu wrote:

You are going to see very little if any traffic booking Hawaii mainland returns. The people leaving the islands are going to places that WN doesn’t serve without arduous routings or timing. What you are seeing is the local California tourist traffic booking their returns to the west coast from Hawaii.

I seriously doubt WN’s success in Hawaii. They are not connecting enough people to onward from Hawaii and this is going to erode their viability.

Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.

Also what happens when the airplane on an inter island flight has a maintenance issue. With one flight a day in the market and no interline agreement how do they get the customers where they need to be? Same goes for the west coast Hawaii flights. No agreements means reaccomodation is going to be a rude awakening for those WN customers.

There isn’t gold at the end of the rainbow for WN in Hawaii.


Oh god here we go with the melancholy rhetoric. I think the fact that all flights are sold out is a sign of the massive support that their base is giving. Really, Alaska is going to suffer the most out of this, but HA, UA, AA, and even DL are going to feel it. GO! was a POS airline that no one wanted to fly, and Mesa their parent company is still a POS airline; yet GO! lasted quite a while. WN also has a very good product with $8 WiFi and free messaging/movies/TV and 32 inches of pitch. They also will give more as far as free snacks than UA and AA do.


Does that $8 WiFi work off satellite? If not they won’t have internet over the ocean.


Yes. This was successfully tested during the validation flights.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.


Um, no. Every Hawaiian local or native I've spoken to, either there or here in the local and growing Polynesian/Hawaiian communities here in Southern California are all dreaming of Southwest's arrival into the market. Yes, there's a lot of local loyalty to HA, but there is also a fair amount of resentment over the price gouging on the interisland fares. These lower Southwest fares will allow them to travel back to the islands and visit their families far more easily. Given the choice between what HA and the Big 3 have been charging and what SW is apparently offering, no amount of local loyalty will win out. The fact that a plane has "Hawaiian." painted on the side won't matter if the airfare is too high for the average Hawaiian local or native. It just won't.


The WN fares aren’t cheaper. They offered some $49 seats to get headlines and to push some other other bad press they have been receiving off the front pages. Their fares are going to to be similar to what is already out there.

WN is making themselves a limited market available carrier with their schedules. Just looking at schedules. WN shows no flight schedules available from MSY, MCO, BNA to HNL. They do offer service from BWI but it is $704 in June one way on the date I checked. There is no flight as an option on the return from HNL to BWI. On Expedia UA was offering $508 round trip. Effectively WN is relying on California traffic to support their Hawaii service.

With fares more expensive than the other carriers WN doesn’t offer anything to the customer that has any travel sense. Also they won’t be able to push them through their network to the east coast. Limiting the customer base is not going to make those east coast FF happy when getting to Hawaii is going to cost them a day of travel on each end plus hotels on the west coast each way just to burn those miles to Hawaii. Plus what revenue is WN going to see if the entire plane is FF mike burners?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13850
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:45 pm

mcdu wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.


Um, no. Every Hawaiian local or native I've spoken to, either there or here in the local and growing Polynesian/Hawaiian communities here in Southern California are all dreaming of Southwest's arrival into the market. Yes, there's a lot of local loyalty to HA, but there is also a fair amount of resentment over the price gouging on the interisland fares. These lower Southwest fares will allow them to travel back to the islands and visit their families far more easily. Given the choice between what HA and the Big 3 have been charging and what SW is apparently offering, no amount of local loyalty will win out. The fact that a plane has "Hawaiian." painted on the side won't matter if the airfare is too high for the average Hawaiian local or native. It just won't.


The WN fares aren’t cheaper. They offered some $49 seats to get headlines and to push some other other bad press they have been receiving off the front pages. Their fares are going to to be similar to what is already out there.

WN is making themselves a limited market available carrier with their schedules. Just looking at schedules. WN shows no flight schedules available from MSY, MCO, BNA to HNL. They do offer service from BWI but it is $704 in June one way on the date I checked. There is no flight as an option on the return from HNL to BWI. On Expedia UA was offering $508 round trip. Effectively WN is relying on California traffic to support their Hawaii service.

With fares more expensive than the other carriers WN doesn’t offer anything to the customer that has any travel sense. Also they won’t be able to push them through their network to the east coast. Limiting the customer base is not going to make those east coast FF happy when getting to Hawaii is going to cost them a day of travel on each end plus hotels on the west coast each way just to burn those miles to Hawaii. Plus what revenue is WN going to see if the entire plane is FF mike burners?


I think you misunderstand WN loyalists. Most folks with status on WN don't fly WN exclusively. We fly them when the schedule and the product makes sense and know that that even between WN cities and even in shorter-haul markets, the schedule does not always make sense. I look at WN almost always when going to a WN city (unless the geography in that city is such that WN's airport makes no sense, like a recent meeting in Rosemont where I flew UA to ORD) but certainly do not always book them. Our family vacation last year was Salt Lake City, Maui, and San Diego. We flew WN to SLC (the times on the DL nonstops were not convenient; I think the price was basically a wash), DL to OGG, HA to SAN, and WN back home. That's a typical pattern for my business travel too.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
SmithAir747
Posts: 1888
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:30 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:52 pm

I cannot find any connecting routings or schedules from DEN to HNL via any of the California gateways. I tried random dates for a DEN-xxx-HNL trip, but no dice.

SmithAir747
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)

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