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PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:53 pm

I’m surprised some are calling this a failure when they literally announced the schedule yesterday. Maybe there’s a bit too much concern over how this will affect some other carriers? WN has a strong value component for a lot of people. A family of four each checking a piece of luggage for a week on, say, United, might be a bitter pill to swallow when they can save a few hundred bucks in flying WN. And if little David gets sick, they can reschedule at no cost vs how David might be “reaccommodated” at another airline. $$$

But in the end, can’t we all accept that different strokes for different folks still applies? WN can’t be everything to everybody, nor can AS or UA etc. If WN adding Hawaii is that bitter of a pill to swallow, maybe some have bigger issues.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:13 pm

Jetsgo wrote:
So where’s SAN and SMF?


I suspect SAN and SMF will come later. You figure that OAK is a crew base, so it's better to start off with OAK and nearby SJC.

Hopefully, the connections from DAL heading from Hawaii will be better than what's currently posted, but it's a good start.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:15 pm

All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:16 pm

SmithAir747 wrote:
I cannot find any connecting routings or schedules from DEN to HNL via any of the California gateways. I tried random dates for a DEN-xxx-HNL trip, but no dice.

SmithAir747


I found the same thing for DAL, for what it's worth. Maybe the connecting times will work once SAN to Hawaii comes on-line.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:17 pm

mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??


Fair point. I just like to have options flying out of Dallas, but that's a valid point I hadn't factored in.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:49 pm

SmithAir747 wrote:
I cannot find any connecting routings or schedules from DEN to HNL via any of the California gateways. I tried random dates for a DEN-xxx-HNL trip, but no dice.

SmithAir747


Try again. They opened up more seats. There are easy connections to OAK-HNL most days.
 
EvanWSFO
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:22 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:55 pm

spinotter wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
airliners.net has turned into a swamp of nastiness.


Exactly. How can we turn this around? Maybe paid subsciptions after all?


IMO, it's a societal problem. It's easy to hide behind some device and insult people. Just look at Facebook. Social media isn't always a good thing.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
mcdu
Posts: 1522
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:58 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I’m surprised some are calling this a failure when they literally announced the schedule yesterday. Maybe there’s a bit too much concern over how this will affect some other carriers? WN has a strong value component for a lot of people. A family of four each checking a piece of luggage for a week on, say, United, might be a bitter pill to swallow when they can save a few hundred bucks in flying WN. And if little David gets sick, they can reschedule at no cost vs how David might be “reaccommodated” at another airline. $$$

But in the end, can’t we all accept that different strokes for different folks still applies? WN can’t be everything to everybody, nor can AS or UA etc. If WN adding Hawaii is that bitter of a pill to swallow, maybe some have bigger issues.


In the example I found of BWI to HNL it was $700 ONE WAY for WN. WN didn’t even have an option for a return flight schedule. On UA via travelocity it was $500 round trip. You could spend $200 in bag fees and still be paying less roundtrip than WN. Get the Frequent Flyer credit card and you pay you get a free bag so you can save on those and you are even farther ahead not traveling on WN.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1522
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:02 pm

[url][/url]
mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??


You should have you entire network available to your customers. Those folks in IND and BNA do travel to HI. That’s a pretty smug statement to say those people don’t travel to HI. What would the outcry be if AA or DL operates a flight from NYC to Europe but offered no way to connect to it from its network?
 
EvanWSFO
Posts: 1135
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:22 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:03 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

To be clear, they will start flying two weeks after announcing service?


Yep that's one of the Rumors going around a very short sale to start date since they already have ETOPS pilots,aircraft and Hawaii ground crews just sitting idle waiting for the delayed Approval and start date. In order to build traffic quickly for the Easter spring break season.

Alternative rumor start date is Tuesday April 2
Giving them 4 weeks of sales and promotions.

We could find something out Friday or hopefully by next Tuesday morning.

It's coming quickly.
Anybody's guess now.
Flyguy



They are not starting service to Hawai'i in three weeks. That's inane. I don't even know understand you would believe that "rumor."



So how does that crow taste?
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
bob75013
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:25 pm

mcdu wrote:
[url][/url]
mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??


You should have you entire network available to your customers. Those folks in IND and BNA do travel to HI. That’s a pretty smug statement to say those people don’t travel to HI. What would the outcry be if AA or DL operates a flight from NYC to Europe but offered no way to connect to it from its network?


You don't need to have your entire network available to all your customers when you have limited seat numbers and can fill every one of them right now.



but a WN hater might not understand that.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4577
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:27 pm

You guys talk as if this is it. Yeah we see network limitations with this initial rollout but they haven’t even rolled out the rest of the announced cities yet. They have clearly stated there’s more to come and their goal is to bring opportunities to everyone.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:36 pm

SmithAir747 wrote:
I cannot find any connecting routings or schedules from DEN to HNL via any of the California gateways. I tried random dates for a DEN-xxx-HNL trip, but no dice.

SmithAir747


And THIS may be how AS, DL and UA survive WN to Hawaii. WN has nearly no connecting to most places east of CA. If AS is smart, and they want to keep those planes filled through places like SJC, they will optimize and advertize connections. Think AUS, DAL, TUS...
 
mcdu
Posts: 1522
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:38 pm

[url][/url]
mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??


You should have you entire network available to your customers. Those folks in IND and BNA do travel to HI. That’s a pretty smug statement to say those people don’t travel to HI. What would the outcry be if AA or DL operates a flight from NYC to Europe but offered no way to connect to it from its network?
 
bob75013
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:47 am

mcdu wrote:
[url][/url]
mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??


You should have you entire network available to your customers. Those folks in IND and BNA do travel to HI. That’s a pretty smug statement to say those people don’t travel to HI. What would the outcry be if AA or DL operates a flight from NYC to Europe but offered no way to connect to it from its network?


Why do you feel a need to copy and repost post #209. I already responded to that one.
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:06 am

AirFiero wrote:
SmithAir747 wrote:
I cannot find any connecting routings or schedules from DEN to HNL via any of the California gateways. I tried random dates for a DEN-xxx-HNL trip, but no dice.

SmithAir747


And THIS may be how AS, DL and UA survive WN to Hawaii. WN has nearly no connecting to most places east of CA. If AS is smart, and they want to keep those planes filled through places like SJC, they will optimize and advertize connections. Think AUS, DAL, TUS...


Westbound connections are plentiful now; they'll figure out eastbound connections soon enough. It's not like AS has a bunch of red eyes from SJC either to connect people to the east coast. The original post was made at a time when all OAK-HNL flights were zeroed-out; there are now two easy connections available on DEN-OAK-HNL. DEN is a big market that puts probably 0.7 people per day on AS routings through Seattle to Hawaii. WN is going to generate a lot of traffic from places like that.
 
BCEaglesCO757
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:16 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:19 am

Listen...Southwest will make a dent somewhere on other carriers, but have they announced HNL-HDN,NRT,GUM with freight contracts,etc ? wide bodies.. Theres traffic beyond HI other. Someone has to fly it.

Especially GUM. UA runs narriwbodies we know, but they're moving alot of frieght as well on those widebodies. And that makes $$$.

This talk of other carriers feeling the pain is true...to an extent.
 
26point2
Posts: 1066
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:01 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:38 am

I’m happy for SW but who really wants to sit on a SW 737 for 6+ hours? Not me. I realize HA, UAL, Delta and the rest are all going to single aisle for the HI routes but at least they have cabin options.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:37 am

mcdu wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I’m surprised some are calling this a failure when they literally announced the schedule yesterday. Maybe there’s a bit too much concern over how this will affect some other carriers? WN has a strong value component for a lot of people. A family of four each checking a piece of luggage for a week on, say, United, might be a bitter pill to swallow when they can save a few hundred bucks in flying WN. And if little David gets sick, they can reschedule at no cost vs how David might be “reaccommodated” at another airline. $$$

But in the end, can’t we all accept that different strokes for different folks still applies? WN can’t be everything to everybody, nor can AS or UA etc. If WN adding Hawaii is that bitter of a pill to swallow, maybe some have bigger issues.


In the example I found of BWI to HNL it was $700 ONE WAY for WN. WN didn’t even have an option for a return flight schedule. On UA via travelocity it was $500 round trip. You could spend $200 in bag fees and still be paying less roundtrip than WN. Get the Frequent Flyer credit card and you pay you get a free bag so you can save on those and you are even farther ahead not traveling on WN.


The point is, they are just getting started. As they fine-tune scheduling more options will be available.

It’s great that other carriers do things their way. WN does it their own way. Again, plenty of folks are fine with, if not prefer, the Southwest product and service. You don’t fly them so not sure why you’re o concerned about it?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:38 am

The WN fares aren’t cheaper. They offered some $49 seats to get headlines and to push some other other bad press they have been receiving off the front pages. Their fares are going to to be similar to what is already out there.

WN is making themselves a limited market available carrier with their schedules. Just looking at schedules. WN shows no flight schedules available from MSY, MCO, BNA to HNL. They do offer service from BWI but it is $704 in June one way on the date I checked. There is no flight as an option on the return from HNL to BWI. On Expedia UA was offering $508 round trip. Effectively WN is relying on California traffic to support their Hawaii service.


Actually, they are. I ran a number of routings for myself and family as summer vacation comes. SNA-Bay Area-OGG on United is anywhere between $600-$1000 depending upon economy or premium economy. On Southwest, the same dates and similar routings came to $388 round trip. I'm also using each carrier's website, not a third party site like Expedia or Travelocity.

To your second point, they are just starting out. Geez, everyone has to start someplace. Okay, maybe Athena sprang fully formed from Zeus' forehead, but she was the rarity. More flights and connections will be added over time. Also, the airports you've mentioned are all well outside the range of even the 737 MAX to Hawaii, if you're thinking nonstop. And, if you're thinking multiple stops and connections then yes, you can do that. I'm on the Southwest website as I type this and a flight from BNA to OGG on June 17th would take you 13 hours with stops in SAN and SJC, but it would get you there. The Wanna Get Away fares are already sold out, leaving you with the Business Select and Anytime fares which are - guess what - still lower than flying United LAX-OGG premium economy nonstop, at least as of this morning when I checked. I'm suspect a flight with connections to BWI will occur eventually, but its likely a low priority since as its been stated many times here on A-Net, and accurately, East Coasters tend to vacation more in the Caribbean and Florida, with Western US-ers being more Hawaii-centric. That's not overrelying on California traffic, that's marketing and traffic patterns governing your routes.

The bottom line is, give them time. I'm sure that more connections and schedule flexibility will eventually appear as Southwest's Hawaiian experiment matures and develops.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:04 am

[photoid]w[/photoid]
mcdu wrote:
[url][/url]
mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??[/quote
You should have you entire network available to your customers. Those folks in IND and BNA do travel to HI. That’s a pretty smug statement to say those people don’t travel to HI. What would the outcry be if AA or DL operates a flight from NYC to Europe but offered no way to connect to it from its network?

Until WN has red eyes nothing east of Den will see a return from Hawaii. Should WN not serve Hawaii until east coast pax can make a round trip???
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:11 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
SmithAir747 wrote:
I cannot find any connecting routings or schedules from DEN to HNL via any of the California gateways. I tried random dates for a DEN-xxx-HNL trip, but no dice.

SmithAir747


And THIS may be how AS, DL and UA survive WN to Hawaii. WN has nearly no connecting to most places east of CA. If AS is smart, and they want to keep those planes filled through places like SJC, they will optimize and advertize connections. Think AUS, DAL, TUS...


Westbound connections are plentiful now; they'll figure out eastbound connections soon enough. It's not like AS has a bunch of red eyes from SJC either to connect people to the east coast. The original post was made at a time when all OAK-HNL flights were zeroed-out; there are now two easy connections available on DEN-OAK-HNL. DEN is a big market that puts probably 0.7 people per day on AS routings through Seattle to Hawaii. WN is going to generate a lot of traffic from places like that.


True. But until WN does red eyes, they’re hamstrung to the east.

AS could add eastbound redeyes. Many other airlines do it to the east. Does AS, currently?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1675
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:24 am

Going off of WN current summer 2019 flight schedule they could technically run 3 of it's MAX7 on a non Red Eye rotation.
HNL/OGG/KOA-DEN
07:00-17:30 (6hr 30min)
DEN-HNL/OGG/KOA
19:00-22:20 (7hr 20min)
This would give WN 31 Daily Midwest and eastern connections.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:13 am

From my understanding, WN DOES NOT and WILL NOT have redeye flight capability for approximately 2 years at the earliest. From my understanding it has to do with a dispatch system called SWIFT. Now I could be wrong as this is second hand information. This apparently though was just discussed by the pilot group as ETOPS was rolling out.
I am me and no one else
 
hoya
Posts: 546
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:25 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:24 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Going off of WN current summer 2019 flight schedule they could technically run 3 of it's MAX7 on a non Red Eye rotation.
HNL/OGG/KOA-DEN
07:00-17:30 (6hr 30min)
DEN-HNL/OGG/KOA
19:00-22:20 (7hr 20min)
This would give WN 31 Daily Midwest and eastern connections.

Flyguy


Good luck finding people that are willing to check-out from their pricey hotels at 5am, especially when AA/AS/DL/UA offer later options. Same for westbound to Hawaii - only diehard WN loyalists would want to arrive that late into HNL/OGG/KOA when multiple earlier options exist on the other carriers, including UA with 777s on DEN-HNL and DEN-OGG.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
mcdu
Posts: 1522
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:02 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:



Actually, they are. I ran a number of routings for myself and family as summer vacation comes. SNA-Bay Area-OGG on United is anywhere between $600-$1000 depending upon economy or premium economy. On Southwest, the same dates and similar routings came to $388 round trip. I'm also using each carrier's website, not a third party site like Expedia or Travelocity.

To your second point, they are just starting out. Geez, everyone has to start someplace. Okay, maybe Athena sprang fully formed from Zeus' forehead, but she was the rarity. More flights and connections will be added over time. Also, the airports you've mentioned are all well outside the range of even the 737 MAX to Hawaii, if you're thinking nonstop. And, if you're thinking multiple stops and connections then yes, you can do that. I'm on the Southwest website as I type this and a flight from BNA to OGG on June 17th would take you 13 hours with stops in SAN and SJC, but it would get you there. The Wanna Get Away fares are already sold out, leaving you with the Business Select and Anytime fares which are - guess what - still lower than flying United LAX-OGG premium economy nonstop, at least as of this morning when I checked. I'm suspect a flight with connections to BWI will occur eventually, but its likely a low priority since as its been stated many times here on A-Net, and accurately, East Coasters tend to vacation more in the Caribbean and Florida, with Western US-ers being more Hawaii-centric. That's not overrelying on California traffic, that's marketing and traffic patterns governing your routes.

The bottom line is, give them time. I'm sure that more connections and schedule flexibility will eventually appear as Southwest's Hawaiian experiment matures and develops.


Why are you comparing premium economy to WN fares? Why aren’t you using Expedia or Travelocity as that is where most consumers price shop that don’t habe airline loyalty. In my opinion that is going to hurt WN the most in the HI market. Many tourist are on package travel and WN won’t be part of those packages. Locals most like won’t shop WN website as everyone I know is locked into FF with the established airlines.

From what I’ve read WN doesn’t limit the number of seats occupied by FF awards. This is sounding like a really expensive service for WN to flush FF miles.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1675
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:19 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
From my understanding, WN DOES NOT and WILL NOT have redeye flight capability for approximately 2 years at the earliest. From my understanding it has to do with a dispatch system called SWIFT. Now I could be wrong as this is second hand information. This apparently though was just discussed by the pilot group as ETOPS was rolling out.


WN has the capability to do Red Eyes today.
Before OneRes was in place it wasn't able to sale Red Eye connecting flights.
The Maintenance tracking system was the other sticking point unable run a 24hr daily flow system that reset at 0300 Herb.
But the new MX system should be in place by fall 2019.
Red Eye aren't a priority for 2019 but summer 2020 they should be released. Not just Hawaii but for Flights to BWI and MDW.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
wntex
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:54 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:21 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
You guys talk as if this is it. Yeah we see network limitations with this initial rollout but they haven’t even rolled out the rest of the announced cities yet. They have clearly stated there’s more to come and their goal is to bring opportunities to everyone.


Exactly!! To echo this and other similar statements, this is merely the beginning. There is much more to come...they've stated it over and over. Frankly, if you're coming from the eastern US, you may just need to get creative with your routing to CA...you just might have to book multiple reservations. Ideal? No. But certainly doable.

If I were a betting man, I think their upcoming 3/14/19 schedule release will connect a lot more dots together for Hawaii...especially for those of us who live east of CA.

WNTex
"The chief cause of failure and unhappiness is trading what you want most for what you want now." -Zig Ziglar
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:36 pm

mcdu wrote:
[url][/url]
mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??


You should have you entire network available to your customers. Those folks in IND and BNA do travel to HI. That’s a pretty smug statement to say those people don’t travel to HI. What would the outcry be if AA or DL operates a flight from NYC to Europe but offered no way to connect to it from its network?


For one, I never said no one from those places wants to go to HI.
Secondly, WN doesn't offer service to all possible places within the continental US either, and I don't see a big uproar about that.
Lastly, I bet WN is more than happy to let a few folks from middle ASmerica to go on someone else to be able to free up the seat for their coveted CA-HI persons,IMO.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3077
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:47 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
So please correct me if I'm wrong. Is it true that WN's Rapid Rewards has no restrictions on the number of seats on each flight that can be redeemed? If true, all of those 'sold out' flights might be flying with a handful of people paying $49 and the rest flying for free. Ouch. Of course we'll likely never know as they won't separate out the Hawaii revenue from the rest, especially if they are losing their shirt. No one else even bothered to match those intro fares and booking out their fares are seemingly no different than AS, UA or HA.


Some of us have suspected that the flights to Hawaii are being established in large part so that people will fly WN more often throughout the 48 states just to get those Hawaii vacation flights.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13911
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:52 pm

hoya wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Going off of WN current summer 2019 flight schedule they could technically run 3 of it's MAX7 on a non Red Eye rotation.
HNL/OGG/KOA-DEN
07:00-17:30 (6hr 30min)
DEN-HNL/OGG/KOA
19:00-22:20 (7hr 20min)
This would give WN 31 Daily Midwest and eastern connections.

Flyguy


Good luck finding people that are willing to check-out from their pricey hotels at 5am, especially when AA/AS/DL/UA offer later options. Same for westbound to Hawaii - only diehard WN loyalists would want to arrive that late into HNL/OGG/KOA when multiple earlier options exist on the other carriers, including UA with 777s on DEN-HNL and DEN-OGG.


I actually took a late DL flight LAX-OGG this summer and really liked it. It made the time adjustment (we were coming from MDT, so it was four hours) very easy for the whole family. YMMV, of course, but I'm not sure why folks would assume that the late arrivals are unattractive.
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hawaiian717
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:29 pm

26point2 wrote:
I’m happy for SW but who really wants to sit on a SW 737 for 6+ hours? Not me. I realize HA, UAL, Delta and the rest are all going to single aisle for the HI routes but at least they have cabin options.


1. From California, it's generally closer to 5 hours. I once did a HNL-LAX redeye in a United 777 in about 4.5, and SFO is closer to Hawaii than LAX.

2. People already sit in Southwest 737s for 5+ hours. I've done it multiple times taking nonstop flights between SAN and BWI.

3. Sure, other airlines have cabin options but most people are still in economy, which is not significantly different than Southwest.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:51 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
So please correct me if I'm wrong. Is it true that WN's Rapid Rewards has no restrictions on the number of seats on each flight that can be redeemed? If true, all of those 'sold out' flights might be flying with a handful of people paying $49 and the rest flying for free. Ouch. Of course we'll likely never know as they won't separate out the Hawaii revenue from the rest, especially if they are losing their shirt. No one else even bothered to match those intro fares and booking out their fares are seemingly no different than AS, UA or HA.


Some of us have suspected that the flights to Hawaii are being established in large part so that people will fly WN more often throughout the 48 states just to get those Hawaii vacation flights.


Yes, but that is true of any expansion at any airline. Any new city will cause more draw from other places beyond even the N/S origin city. If they started flying to JFK/MIA/ANC tomorrow, wouldn't that cause more people to fly WN in general?
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:27 pm

Why are you comparing premium economy to WN fares? Why aren’t you using Expedia or Travelocity as that is where most consumers price shop that don’t habe airline loyalty. In my opinion that is going to hurt WN the most in the HI market. Many tourist are on package travel and WN won’t be part of those packages. Locals most like won’t shop WN website as everyone I know is locked into FF with the established airlines.


To your first question, I'm comparing both regular economy and premium economy. For me, I like the legroom of premium economy and am willing to pay for it, whichever airline I'm on. However, if Southwest can come in well under the other airlines' prices for regular economy, then that's an important point that will likely affect the purchasing habits of fliers like myself. To your second question, there are often, but not always, restrictions on the lowest fares on third party websites, sometimes with extra stops, etc. Again, not always but sometimes. By going with the airlines' websites, its a purer apples to apples comparison.

Also, not to go too far afield, but if someone is locked into just one airline's loyalty program, then that's a "them" problem. I have accounts with United, Hawaiian, and Southwest. and I only fly a few times each year. But, I fly the airline and route that gets me there at the right price and the right time. I'm not absolutely loyal to any one airline - consumer sovereignty rules. And, if American, Delta or Alaska came in at a lower price, I'd fly them, too, as I have in the past.
 
sccutler
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:24 pm

ncflyer wrote:
WN in Hawaii is so uncannily parallel to what Braniff did in Texas when WN gained traction there back in the 1970s, except this time WN is Braniff— the entrenched big guy— role reversal 50 years later. The episode is a legendary Harvard Business School case study about how WN outlasted big bad Braniff. Good lessons for Hawaiian in the case study on how they can try to win, but it won’t be cheap or easy.


Well, actually, no.

Braniff was financially shaky, and had a cost structure that could never compete with Southwest on price. They tried, they failed.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
sccutler
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:30 pm

26point2 wrote:
I’m happy for SW but who really wants to sit on a SW 737 for 6+ hours? Not me. I realize HA, UAL, Delta and the rest are all going to single aisle for the HI routes but at least they have cabin options.


No one really enjoys sitting in a coach seat for a long flight, but Southwest's coach product is better than the competitions'. Of course, the competition does have actual cabin options, and odds are, that's where you'll find my fuzzy backside, but that is a pretty recent option for me, and TBH, I don't fly long-haul all that often anyway.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:56 pm

mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??

I just took my eighth trip to the islands. What is your point, again?
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
mcdu
Posts: 1522
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:20 pm

More bad press on this schedule to and from Hawaii. They are going to need to solve the all nighter issue or the bad PR will continue to stack up.

Glad to see the media covering this issue. For those that claim I am the only person in the world critical of WN this helps shed more light.

The expectations from the consumer is “hey Southwest has $49 fares to Hawaii. I’m going to go!” Then they see that the $49 fare is an illusion and when they try to book they can’t book a return or in many cases either way. Brilliant work WN.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3064099002
Last edited by mcdu on Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:36 pm

mcdu wrote:
Glad to see the media covering this issue. For those that claim I am the only person in the world critical of WN this helps shed more light.


It isn’t that you’re the only person critical. It’s that everything you post is critical. We get it, you want Southwest Airlines to fail.

As for the article, there’s been plenty of discussion in this thread that addresses the issue.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
kiowa
Posts: 564
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:43 pm

26point2 wrote:
I’m happy for SW but who really wants to sit on a SW 737 for 6+ hours? Not me. I realize HA, UAL, Delta and the rest are all going to single aisle for the HI routes but at least they have cabin options.



This^^
I try to fly only on wide body aircraft to Hawaii. Anything over a couple of hours on a 737 I think is painful. Just my opinion of course.
 
tphuang
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:48 pm

If one is fortunate enough to be able to afford sitting in FC abin, then WN is probably not for you. But if you are sitting anywhere else, WN on 737 is a better option than all the legacies imo. unless seat pitch suddenly doesn't matter. So what if they don't have hot meals for purchase on board, eat before you get on the plane! You are already saving a fortune from not having to pay for checked luggages, which is a big deal to HI.

As for not having return flights to middle of the country from HI, they are serving the west coast demand mostly. You are not forced to purchase WN. If you like WN fare on the way over to HI, you can always fly on a different airline back. I do that all the time. Why do people still need to purchase return tickets on the same airline?
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1713
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:01 pm

In the end, I think Southwest will find itself in a nice spot inter-island. They don't need to do a lot to get passengers on their planes, but the schedule will probably be tinkered with a bit to capitalize on where the local demand is. They at least aren't doing what we did at Mokulele and flood LIH/OGG right out the gate. I think MW would still be flying jets today if we didn't start LIH with 8 flights a day and ran maybe 4 or 5 instead. We were running some LIH flights with only 4 and 5 people on them, which really hurt. OGG/KOA were much better, but that was because we had name recognition in those islands already.

For the transpac flights, loads on all the other airlines are already spotty. There just isn't enough *affordable* hotel inventory on the market to support all these new seats. I walked on my flights around Christmas & New Years as a non-rev, and my friends also had no problems either. And these were NOT Tuesday morning flights. Easter looks like another Christmas, with some airlines having 80-100 open seats when other nearby periods, those same flights have maybe 20/30 open seats.

So WN is going to focus on their west coast/Ca base it seems. The morning departures to CA will be a good draw, as the first flights out tend to be after 11AM from almost everywhere (Lihue does NOT have a single flight to the mainland before 11AM). Even HNL is a little sparce on the 7-8AM departures.
xx
 
mcdu
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:01 pm

tphuang wrote:
If one is fortunate enough to be able to afford sitting in FC abin, then WN is probably not for you. But if you are sitting anywhere else, WN on 737 is a better option than all the legacies imo. unless seat pitch suddenly doesn't matter. So what if they don't have hot meals for purchase on board, eat before you get on the plane! You are already saving a fortune from not having to pay for checked luggages, which is a big deal to HI.

As for not having return flights to middle of the country from HI, they are serving the west coast demand mostly. You are not forced to purchase WN. If you like WN fare on the way over to HI, you can always fly on a different airline back. I do that all the time. Why do people still need to purchase return tickets on the same airline?


You have options for more legroom on the legacies to and from HI. You don’t have to pay bag fees if you use the airline credit card and or are a frequent flyer. I think people often do travel on different airlines but it is via the booking agents like Expedia or Travelocity that will generate those routings. The majority of America is not going to invest time and effort into the creating separate bookings. There is always the risk of missing the connection you created for yourself and left holding a valueless ticket on a flight that has already departed.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4321
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:03 pm

mcdu wrote:
Also what happens when the airplane on an inter island flight has a maintenance issue. With one flight a day in the market and no interline agreement how do they get the customers where they need to be? Same goes for the west coast Hawaii flights. No agreements means reaccomodation is going to be a rude awakening for those WN customers.

There isn’t gold at the end of the rainbow for WN in Hawaii.


Mcdu-

Every post you have posted all over has been anti Southwest...I don't want to call you out in the sense of you want them to fail...but you're not helping your cause. I also work for United, and I am on your side but I am equally excited that Southwest is opening Hawaii. Competition is a HEALTHY thing for everyone, even us at United. It makes us be better along with the other airlines.

There is not one post from you that simply says "I wish my colleagues at Southwest the best in Hawaii"

Can you even manage to just type that?

Also this is exciting for THEM. Who cares that other airlines have been doing it for awhile...for Southwest this is a first for THEM, and no one else. Be excited for them!

To respond to what you're saying about the intra island and MX and all...

United also has a policy that when it is weather...they are NOT to rebook their customers on another airline. So how is this different from Southwest when say it is weather and they get stranded? Just like a United customer, they will have to wait for the next flight on Southwest, as United.

In addition you mentioned lack of interline agreement, that's fair...but again...using your argument..how does this help cities where only United flies to, and there is no other airline option. I'll name a few...DVL, JMS, CGI, PAH....these are all cities that are only served United. What happens when a flight cancels in that station? They have to wait until there's another UA flight available...just like you're stating with Southwest.

Southwest will do what they have been doing for years...if the customer cannot be satisfied or be rebooked to a Southwest flight, SWA will refund the money if it is MX, and that passenger may use the funds to book another flight, drive, boat whatever is needed. Southwest has been doing it that way for years..and it has not stopped passengers from flying Southwest.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
tphuang
Posts: 3110
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:40 pm

mcdu wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If one is fortunate enough to be able to afford sitting in FC abin, then WN is probably not for you. But if you are sitting anywhere else, WN on 737 is a better option than all the legacies imo. unless seat pitch suddenly doesn't matter. So what if they don't have hot meals for purchase on board, eat before you get on the plane! You are already saving a fortune from not having to pay for checked luggages, which is a big deal to HI.

As for not having return flights to middle of the country from HI, they are serving the west coast demand mostly. You are not forced to purchase WN. If you like WN fare on the way over to HI, you can always fly on a different airline back. I do that all the time. Why do people still need to purchase return tickets on the same airline?


You have options for more legroom on the legacies to and from HI. You don’t have to pay bag fees if you use the airline credit card and or are a frequent flyer. I think people often do travel on different airlines but it is via the booking agents like Expedia or Travelocity that will generate those routings. The majority of America is not going to invest time and effort into the creating separate bookings. There is always the risk of missing the connection you created for yourself and left holding a valueless ticket on a flight that has already departed.


you mean the 33 inch special I get on AA or the 34 inch special on DL/UA? That is really going to make a huge difference, especially when those legacy 737s have narrower seats.

And I had my AA card for a while, I can tell you it's a gigantic ripoff and it only came with 1 checked in baggage, not 2.

For the last point, I was saying you can take WN on XYZ-OAK-HNL and then a different airline coming back.

WN entrance to HI is great for consumers. Just accept it.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1522
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
mcdu wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If one is fortunate enough to be able to afford sitting in FC abin, then WN is probably not for you. But if you are sitting anywhere else, WN on 737 is a better option than all the legacies imo. unless seat pitch suddenly doesn't matter. So what if they don't have hot meals for purchase on board, eat before you get on the plane! You are already saving a fortune from not having to pay for checked luggages, which is a big deal to HI.

As for not having return flights to middle of the country from HI, they are serving the west coast demand mostly. You are not forced to purchase WN. If you like WN fare on the way over to HI, you can always fly on a different airline back. I do that all the time. Why do people still need to purchase return tickets on the same airline?


You have options for more legroom on the legacies to and from HI. You don’t have to pay bag fees if you use the airline credit card and or are a frequent flyer. I think people often do travel on different airlines but it is via the booking agents like Expedia or Travelocity that will generate those routings. The majority of America is not going to invest time and effort into the creating separate bookings. There is always the risk of missing the connection you created for yourself and left holding a valueless ticket on a flight that has already departed.


you mean the 33 inch special I get on AA or the 34 inch special on DL/UA? That is really going to make a huge difference, especially when those legacy 737s have narrower seats.

And I had my AA card for a while, I can tell you it's a gigantic ripoff and it only came with 1 checked in baggage, not 2.

For the last point, I was saying you can take WN on XYZ-OAK-HNL and then a different airline coming back.

WN entrance to HI is great for consumers. Just accept it.


How many bags do you normally check when you travel?

The extra legroom is popular and I know I prefer it as I will buy my commute tickets to and from the islands well in advance to get E+ seating. A 737 is tight in the back no matter which airline you are flying. So extra legroom of inches don’t matter but fraction of inches on width do? Okay......

So you buy the return ticket on another carrier. What happens when you change your travel plans or the kids get sick and you can’t travel?

WN is great for those few customers that got the $49 dollar tickets and consumers that don’t need to go roundtrip to and from HI or live east of Ontario.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3110
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:04 pm

mcdu wrote:
tphuang wrote:
mcdu wrote:

You have options for more legroom on the legacies to and from HI. You don’t have to pay bag fees if you use the airline credit card and or are a frequent flyer. I think people often do travel on different airlines but it is via the booking agents like Expedia or Travelocity that will generate those routings. The majority of America is not going to invest time and effort into the creating separate bookings. There is always the risk of missing the connection you created for yourself and left holding a valueless ticket on a flight that has already departed.


you mean the 33 inch special I get on AA or the 34 inch special on DL/UA? That is really going to make a huge difference, especially when those legacy 737s have narrower seats.

And I had my AA card for a while, I can tell you it's a gigantic ripoff and it only came with 1 checked in baggage, not 2.

For the last point, I was saying you can take WN on XYZ-OAK-HNL and then a different airline coming back.

WN entrance to HI is great for consumers. Just accept it.


How many bags do you normally check when you travel?

The extra legroom is popular and I know I prefer it as I will buy my commute tickets to and from the islands well in advance to get E+ seating. A 737 is tight in the back no matter which airline you are flying. So extra legroom of inches don’t matter but fraction of inches on width do? Okay......

So you buy the return ticket on another carrier. What happens when you change your travel plans or the kids get sick and you can’t travel?

WN is great for those few customers that got the $49 dollar tickets and consumers that don’t need to go roundtrip to and from HI or live east of Ontario.

I don't check in any baggage, but I'm not like most families in America when they travel.

33 inch is better than 32 inch, but not that big of a deal. I've spent enough times on MCE of a AA 737 to tell you that it was not a good experience. Certainly not one i'm willing to pay extra for over 32 inch option.

if i change my travel plan and can't travel, then I just take the hit. I don't see why 2 airlines will be any different than 1. Booking R/T flight domestically on the same airline is just not good sense economically.

Let's face it, your scenarios are getting pretty desperate here.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2212
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:22 pm

atrude777 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Also what happens when the airplane on an inter island flight has a maintenance issue. With one flight a day in the market and no interline agreement how do they get the customers where they need to be? Same goes for the west coast Hawaii flights. No agreements means reaccomodation is going to be a rude awakening for those WN customers.

There isn’t gold at the end of the rainbow for WN in Hawaii.


Mcdu-

Every post you have posted all over has been anti Southwest...I don't want to call you out in the sense of you want them to fail...but you're not helping your cause. I also work for United, and I am on your side but I am equally excited that Southwest is opening Hawaii. Competition is a HEALTHY thing for everyone, even us at United. It makes us be better along with the other airlines.

There is not one post from you that simply says "I wish my colleagues at Southwest the best in Hawaii"

Can you even manage to just type that?

Also this is exciting for THEM. Who cares that other airlines have been doing it for awhile...for Southwest this is a first for THEM, and no one else. Be excited for them!

To respond to what you're saying about the intra island and MX and all...

United also has a policy that when it is weather...they are NOT to rebook their customers on another airline. So how is this different from Southwest when say it is weather and they get stranded? Just like a United customer, they will have to wait for the next flight on Southwest, as United.

In addition you mentioned lack of interline agreement, that's fair...but again...using your argument..how does this help cities where only United flies to, and there is no other airline option. I'll name a few...DVL, JMS, CGI, PAH....these are all cities that are only served United. What happens when a flight cancels in that station? They have to wait until there's another UA flight available...just like you're stating with Southwest.

Southwest will do what they have been doing for years...if the customer cannot be satisfied or be rebooked to a Southwest flight, SWA will refund the money if it is MX, and that passenger may use the funds to book another flight, drive, boat whatever is needed. Southwest has been doing it that way for years..and it has not stopped passengers from flying Southwest.

Alex


Thank you Alex.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:10 pm

exFWAOONW wrote:
mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??

I just took my eighth trip to the islands. What is your point, again?


That WN is catering to the exponentially larger CA-HI market than small mid America to HI market. Also, that this ( lack of connectivity)was covered enough before these were for sale that it is redundant now.
And wow, 8th trip. Over how long? That just screams for a wherever you are-HI needs a nonstop, not just connecting options!
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13911
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:39 am

mcdu wrote:
[So you buy the return ticket on another carrier. What happens when you change your travel plans or the kids get sick and you can’t travel?


Well, if that happens, WN permits free changes (or you can bank the funds for a year, again with no fee). What's UA's policy on changed travel plans?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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