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rbavfan
Posts: 3251
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:04 am

BWIAirport wrote:
B747forever wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Enjoy your crackers and fruit snacks!


So what, you can't go without food for 5 hours?

And airport terminals are barren wastelands with no available food, so it's likely passengers will be rail thin by the time they land in Hawaii. :roll:


It's the new Southwest diet, the more you visit Hawaii the thinner you get.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:30 am

mtnwest1979 wrote:
All of these "I can't find a connection from XYZ to HNL" …. are not the pax that WN is catering to for these services. Get over it, Anyway, how many folks in BNA or IND are heading to HI anyway??


WN didn't become the largest domestic carrier over night what they've built has taken years and many of their passengers love flying with them. I know because my sisters who live only minutes away from MDW fly WN religiously, The flew UA for the first time last year only because WN was charging over $400 dollars for nonstop flights to SFO and UA was charging $210 for basic economy roundtrip. My sister who have never been to Hawaii are among those excited about this new service and the prospect of flying WN to Hawaii but they ran into the same problem. First the $49 dollar fares sold out in the blink of an eye then after they found a one way fare at a much higher rate there were no return options back to Chicago's MDW so they are waiting for the excitement to die down before trying again.

Honestly I really didn't realized the true power of WN or the absolute cult like following they have until Hawaii service went on sale. WN didn't even generate this type of excitement when they began service to the Caribbean and Mexico's beach destinations. Make no mistake judging from social media and regular media reports there are plenty of passengers east of the Mississippi river who vacation in Hawaii religiously and there are many passengers who have been waiting for years for WN to offer this this service. I think the only thing that will put a slight damper on customers excitement in the future is when they see WN's non-sale price is not going to be that much different than what AS, AA, DL, HA, or UA charges, $49 dollars is a great introductory fare but I think WN in the future will have to charge the same fare as the other airlines if their Hawaiian flights are going to be profitable.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:22 am

kiowa wrote:
26point2 wrote:
I’m happy for SW but who really wants to sit on a SW 737 for 6+ hours? Not me. I realize HA, UAL, Delta and the rest are all going to single aisle for the HI routes but at least they have cabin options.



This^^
I try to fly only on wide body aircraft to Hawaii. Anything over a couple of hours on a 737 I think is painful. Just my opinion of course.


I think it’s a very valid opinion, but it’s only relevant because there are still widebody options to the islands. There are countless narrowbody flights the world over that are as long or longer than the Hawaii-west coast runs but there aren’t widebody options in many cases. Hopefully HA can keep flying widebodies to the mainland for years to come.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14001
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:08 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
kiowa wrote:
26point2 wrote:
I’m happy for SW but who really wants to sit on a SW 737 for 6+ hours? Not me. I realize HA, UAL, Delta and the rest are all going to single aisle for the HI routes but at least they have cabin options.



This^^
I try to fly only on wide body aircraft to Hawaii. Anything over a couple of hours on a 737 I think is painful. Just my opinion of course.


I think it’s a very valid opinion, but it’s only relevant because there are still widebody options to the islands. There are countless narrowbody flights the world over that are as long or longer than the Hawaii-west coast runs but there aren’t widebody options in many cases. Hopefully HA can keep flying widebodies to the mainland for years to come.


I can’t say that I’m in the “never narrowbodies” camp, but I do also think there’s a difference between 757s and 321s and smaller narrowbodies. The bigger narrowbodies tend to have a lot more cabin space not occupied by seats, which is useful on longer flights.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:07 pm

I am surprised they are only doing Hawaii at this point as a west cost O&D operation with almost no further connectivity?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1678
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:24 pm

3/14/2019 WN going to release its schedule until November 2.
SAN,SMF and LIH (inter island only)should be added to schedule this should include another round of cheap tickets.

LAX from what I've heard isn't coming until the November/December schedule is released.

Spring 2020 both the ETOPS MAX8 & MAX7 should be flying to Hawaii.
Hearing Day time only flying scheduled planned for DEN,LAS and PHX.
All morning departures out is Hawaii.
And early after noon from PHX and early evening from DEN & LAS to Hawaii.
These are said to capture 60% of the Midwest and Eastern connecting markets.

My guesses going off this information
HNL-LAS 08:00-15:35
LAS-HNL 17:00-21:40

HNL-PHX 09:00-18:05
PHX-HNL 14:00-17:45

HNL-DEN 07:00-17:30
DEN-HNL 19:00-22:20

Ya I know I've heard it all before yada yada yada.


Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5114
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:27 pm

I've just gotta say how amazed I am that this thread -- THE thread about WN announcing skeds to Hawaii -- has been dormant for 3-4 days, no posts at all, and has been essentially nothing but a continuation of the rumor mill about what's supposedly coming next!

Such a huge event in civil aviation as WN finally getting Hawaii going has gone practically silent after only a few days following the announcement of service on Monday. Seems to me this whole big thing has turned into a great big nothing burger... AFAIK, there still has not been any sort of 'big splash' with not a single after-shock.

I wonder how WN feels about this? Their whole effort that has gone on for years, to get to the islands and really shake things up, has kinda gone to sleep, at least on A.net.

They announced limited service -- 2 islands from 2 Bay Area airports, plus a handful of inter-island service -- that spans several months. Not exactly what the rumors suggested was going to happen. And who knows how long it will take the carrier to make any further expansion moves from Hawaii?

Just gotta wonder how this all would have gone down if Herb was still at the helm of Southwest...

bb
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:55 pm

The one sure observational bet I can make is:

Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, and JetBlue will not be heading too (or in Allegiant’s case returning back) Hawaii any time soon if ever.

This is a reliable move on WNs part to strip any repeat travel value to hopping aboard the ULCCs when WN offers so much more.

JetBlue on the other hand is pretty much done on the west coast in terms of building frequent flyer travel loyalty and now sees going East as their WN Hawaii foray and gamble endeavor.

While WN is not for everyone, it is a step up from a ULCC, and it is this “step up” customer which Southwest will gain with their once or twice in a lifetime “I am vacationing in Hawaii” crowd.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:42 pm

SANFan wrote:
I've just gotta say how amazed I am that this thread -- THE thread about WN announcing skeds to Hawaii -- has been dormant for 3-4 days, no posts at all, and has been essentially nothing but a continuation of the rumor mill about what's supposedly coming next!

Such a huge event in civil aviation as WN finally getting Hawaii going has gone practically silent after only a few days following the announcement of service on Monday. Seems to me this whole big thing has turned into a great big nothing burger... AFAIK, there still has not been any sort of 'big splash' with not a single after-shock.

I wonder how WN feels about this? Their whole effort that has gone on for years, to get to the islands and really shake things up, has kinda gone to sleep, at least on A.net.

They announced limited service -- 2 islands from 2 Bay Area airports, plus a handful of inter-island service -- that spans several months. Not exactly what the rumors suggested was going to happen. And who knows how long it will take the carrier to make any further expansion moves from Hawaii?

Just gotta wonder how this all would have gone down if Herb was still at the helm of Southwest...

bb


I too thought WN would enter Hawaii to California, guns blazing, with all of their planned service in place at once. Then I remembered how they historically enter a new market. One or two destinations, 4-8 flights a day. Then a few more destinations and frequencies. After a few years, they go from nothing to 100 flights to two dozen destinations (for a mainland city). For reference, I’m thinking about how they built up SJC. BTW, anyone happen to remember what year WN started SJC?

As for the excitement; the build up, anticipation and speculation is almost always more exciting than the event. Given what I just said about WNs slow build up strategy, I think our years of expectations might have been a bit unrealistic. And I think Herb would have done it pretty much the same way.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5114
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:17 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I too thought WN would enter Hawaii to California, guns blazing, with all of their planned service in place at once. Then I remembered how they historically enter a new market. One or two destinations, 4-8 flights a day. Then a few more destinations and frequencies. After a few years, they go from nothing to 100 flights to two dozen destinations (for a mainland city). For reference, I’m thinking about how they built up SJC. BTW, anyone happen to remember what year WN started SJC?

As for the excitement; the build up, anticipation and speculation is almost always more exciting than the event. Given what I just said about WNs slow build up strategy, I think our years of expectations might have been a bit unrealistic. And I think Herb would have done it pretty much the same way.


SJC was opened 6-1-93. (Link: https://www.swamedia.com/pages/city-fact-sheets )

WN does it the way they see fit and management wants to. I guess I'm just surprised at A.net and the rest of the media -- kind of 'eh.... A couple hours of excitement on Monday and then pretty much loss of interest completely.

No big deal. I'm just surprised at how it's all happening.

bb
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:38 pm

SANFan wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I too thought WN would enter Hawaii to California, guns blazing, with all of their planned service in place at once. Then I remembered how they historically enter a new market. One or two destinations, 4-8 flights a day. Then a few more destinations and frequencies. After a few years, they go from nothing to 100 flights to two dozen destinations (for a mainland city). For reference, I’m thinking about how they built up SJC. BTW, anyone happen to remember what year WN started SJC?

As for the excitement; the build up, anticipation and speculation is almost always more exciting than the event. Given what I just said about WNs slow build up strategy, I think our years of expectations might have been a bit unrealistic. And I think Herb would have done it pretty much the same way.


SJC was opened 6-1-93. (Link: https://www.swamedia.com/pages/city-fact-sheets )

WN does it the way they see fit and management wants to. I guess I'm just surprised at A.net and the rest of the media -- kind of 'eh.... A couple hours of excitement on Monday and then pretty much loss of interest completely.

No big deal. I'm just surprised at how it's all happening.

bb


Almost analogous to the post-coital cigarette. Everyone is catching their breath and taking a smoke break :lol:
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:42 pm

SANFan wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I too thought WN would enter Hawaii to California, guns blazing, with all of their planned service in place at once. Then I remembered how they historically enter a new market. One or two destinations, 4-8 flights a day. Then a few more destinations and frequencies. After a few years, they go from nothing to 100 flights to two dozen destinations (for a mainland city). For reference, I’m thinking about how they built up SJC. BTW, anyone happen to remember what year WN started SJC?

As for the excitement; the build up, anticipation and speculation is almost always more exciting than the event. Given what I just said about WNs slow build up strategy, I think our years of expectations might have been a bit unrealistic. And I think Herb would have done it pretty much the same way.


SJC was opened 6-1-93. (Link: https://www.swamedia.com/pages/city-fact-sheets )

WN does it the way they see fit and management wants to. I guess I'm just surprised at A.net and the rest of the media -- kind of 'eh.... A couple hours of excitement on Monday and then pretty much loss of interest completely.

No big deal. I'm just surprised at how it's all happening.

bb


Thanks for the link! Here is how SJC started and where it is today:

June 01, 1993
11 daily nonstop departures to two cities: Burbank and Las Vegas

35th city in Southwest's system

As of Jan 31, 2019, Southwest will offer up to 113 departures a day to 29 cities:
Albuquerque, Austin, Baltimore, Boise, Burbank, Cabo San Lucas/Los Cabos, Chicago (Midway), Dallas (Love Field), Denver, El Paso, Houston (Hobby), Las Vegas, Long Beach, Los Angeles (LAX), Nashville, New Orleans, Ontario, Orange County/Santa Ana, Orlando, Phoenix, Portland (PDX), Raleigh-Durham, Reno/Tahoe, Salt Lake City, San Diego, Seattle, Spokane, St. Louis, Tucson

Here it is for San Diego:

January 31, 1982
Six daily nonstop departures to Phoenix

17th city in Southwest's system

As of Jan 31, 2019, Southwest will offer up to 130 departures a day to 36 cities:
Albuquerque, Atlanta, Austin, Baltimore, Boise, Cabo San Lucas/Los Cabos, Chicago (Midway), Dallas (Love Field), Denver, El Paso, Houston (Hobby), Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Milwaukee, Nashville, New Orleans, Newark, Norfolk, Oakland, Omaha, Orlando, Phoenix, Portland (PDX), Puerto Vallarta, Reno/Tahoe, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Francisco, San Jose, Seattle, Spokane, St. Louis, Tampa, Tucson
 
tphuang
Posts: 3239
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:04 pm

I hope we will see more in the next schedule updates. Given the cuts they made on certain markets recently, it would seem to me they have been saving aircraft for a pretty large HI operation (more than what they've announced thus far).

I'd be surprised if we don't see at minimum once daily SAN-HNL/OGG + once daily SMF-HNL announced soon.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4582
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:18 pm

SANFan wrote:
I've just gotta say how amazed I am that this thread -- THE thread about WN announcing skeds to Hawaii -- has been dormant for 3-4 days, no posts at all, and has been essentially nothing but a continuation of the rumor mill about what's supposedly coming next!

Such a huge event in civil aviation as WN finally getting Hawaii going has gone practically silent after only a few days following the announcement of service on Monday. Seems to me this whole big thing has turned into a great big nothing burger... AFAIK, there still has not been any sort of 'big splash' with not a single after-shock.

I wonder how WN feels about this? Their whole effort that has gone on for years, to get to the islands and really shake things up, has kinda gone to sleep, at least on A.net.

They announced limited service -- 2 islands from 2 Bay Area airports, plus a handful of inter-island service -- that spans several months. Not exactly what the rumors suggested was going to happen. And who knows how long it will take the carrier to make any further expansion moves from Hawaii?

Just gotta wonder how this all would have gone down if Herb was still at the helm of Southwest...

bb


The moderators moving the official announcement thread about tickets going on sale to Travel, Polls & Preferences didn’t help, IMO.

As for slowly rolling out service, this is just a guess but I think the shifting certification timeline put a lot of strain on the planning and setup and enough was put on hold that they need to catch up and get everyone and everything in place.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1739
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:02 pm

I think WN is going to let things be for the summer - I can't see them making any changes until flights actually start, and more importantly, see how the interisland traffic does. So I think we may see some standard schedule extensions, maybe the addition of 1 or 2 routes, but no major significant new routes/traffic until around Thanksgiving.
xx
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:45 pm

usxguy wrote:
I think WN is going to let things be for the summer - I can't see them making any changes until flights actually start, and more importantly, see how the interisland traffic does. So I think we may see some standard schedule extensions, maybe the addition of 1 or 2 routes, but no major significant new routes/traffic until around Thanksgiving.


Again, remember how WN enters markets. They seem to build slowly, over time, rather than rush in with all frequencies to all planned markets from day one.

In fact, I’d be curious to know if WN has *ever* entered a market with all planned destinations and flights in place, all at once?

For reference, hat tip to sanfan...

https://www.swamedia.com/pages/city-fact-sheets
 
jplatts
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:52 am

AirFiero wrote:
Again, remember how WN enters markets. They seem to build slowly, over time, rather than rush in with all frequencies to all planned markets from day one.

In fact, I’d be curious to know if WN has *ever* entered a market with all planned destinations and flights in place, all at once?


According to https://www.swamedia.com/media_storage/city_fact_sheets/SLC.pdf, WN had started service out of SLC with nonstop service to 13 destinations, but WN entered SLC through the WN-KN merger.

There were only 9 other destinations that WN entered with nonstop service to 5 or more destinations, including the following:
ATL - opened with nonstop service to AUS, BWI, MDW, DEN, and HOU on WN plus other routes inherited through the WN-FL merger
GSP - opened with nonstop service to BWI, MDW, HOU, BNA, and MCO on WN, but WN later dropped GSP-BWI/MDW/HOU/BNA/MCO nonstop service in favor of only serving ATL nonstop from GSP
MEM - opened with nonstop service to BWI, MDW, HOU, MCO, and TPA on WN (WN entered MEM through the WN-FL merger)
MKE - opened with nonstop service to BWI, MCI, LAS, MCO, PHX, and TPA on WN
MCO - opened with nonstop service to BWI, CMH, FLL, IND, BNA, MSY, and STL
PHL - opened with nonstop service to MDW, LAS, MCO, PHX, PVD, and TPA, but WN has since dropped PHL-LAS and PHL-PVD nonstop service
PHX - opened with nonstop service to ABQ, ELP, HOU, LAS, and SAN
PVD - opened with nonstop service to BWI, MDW, BNA, MCO, and TPA, but WN has since dropped PVD-BNA nonstop service
RDU - opened with nonstop service to BWI, MDW, BNA, MCO, and TPA
TPA - opened with nonstop service to BWI, FLL, BNA, MSY, and STL

There are some WN international destinations that have nonstop service from only 1 or 2 international gateways on WN.

WN hasn't added any new nonstop routes out of RIC until the very recent addition of seasonal, weekend-only RIC-TPA nonstop service.

GSP is one of the few WN stations in the contiguous U.S. that WN opened with all of the planned nonstop routes at once, but WN did eventually drop all 5 of its original nonstop routes out of GSP in favor of GSP-ATL nonstop service.

WN only currently serves HOU nonstop from CRP, and WN has recently announced the return of CRP-DAL nonstop service on a Saturday-only basis. WN also currently only has nonstop service to AUS, DAL, and HOU from HRL.

WN only currently serves DAL and LAS nonstop from AMA in the West Texas region.

Most of the destinations that WN has entered with all planned destinations and flights in place, all at once are usually smaller WN stations that have nonstop service to only a few destinations on WN.
 
jplatts
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:28 am

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
From my understanding, WN DOES NOT and WILL NOT have redeye flight capability for approximately 2 years at the earliest. From my understanding it has to do with a dispatch system called SWIFT. Now I could be wrong as this is second hand information. This apparently though was just discussed by the pilot group as ETOPS was rolling out.


WN might actually have the capability to operate redeye flights that depart from Hawaii after 11:00 PM Hawaii Time since WN already has over 25 regularly scheduled flights that depart from destinations in the Eastern Time Zone between 11:00 PM and 12:00 AM Hawaii Time (which would be between 5:00 AM and 6:00 AM Eastern Time when DST is in effect in most of the U.S.).

WN also already has some flights in the contiguous U.S. that depart in the evening and arrive between 12:00 AM and 2:00 AM the next day.

Is SWIFT currently capable of handling redeyes that depart from Hawaii after 11:00 PM Hawaii Time, even with WN already operating some flights that depart from the Eastern U.S. between 11:00 PM and 12:00 AM Hawaii Time?
 
phllax
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:50 am

SANFan wrote:
AFAIK, there still has not been any sort of 'big splash' with not a single after-shock.


Actually, there has been. I got an email from United on Saturday which said the following:

Connecting Californians to the island life since 1947. Up to 36 flights a day from California to Hawaii.

We’ve got a 72-year tradition of offering top-notch access to the Hawaiian Islands, and today, we're proud to be No. 1 in nonstop flights to Hawaii. Travel your way with upgraded seating options, such as Economy Plus® for extra legroom and in-seat power, and take advantage of free personal device entertainment on the way. Surfers, we've even waived the oversized bag fees for your surfboards if you're traveling to or from California.

We're also the only U.S. airline to fly to five major Hawaiian destinations from the mainland. And if you want to island-hop, fly with our partner Hawaiian Airlines and you'll earn valuable United MileagePlus® award miles for your flight.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2225
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:28 am

Remember -

This isn't just "new service" between two random cities - this is etops. While it isn't rocket science, it does require a certain amount of spool up time to get the pilots trained and qualified. We couldn't officially start that training until we got the green light from the feds. The Training Center is going gangbusters getting us all trained for the initial salvo to HI in April. The march schedules will be flown by Check Airman who have to get route qualified, who can then rte qual the rest of us. It takes a certain amount of time and you don't/can't flood the market with service you can't support because of the lack of unqualified crews.

Patience Padawans - this hibiscus has just begun to bloom.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
tphuang
Posts: 3239
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:53 pm

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-New ... fares-down
analyst are estimating that WN will put 15 to 20 of the 25 new aircraft it gets this year to HI. That's going to be able to support more than 6 daily R/T from west coast to HI + some intra-island stuff. My guess is they will be up to at least 12 R/T by the end of the year.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1678
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:29 pm

Now with the next Scheduled release coming soon I figured I would use this Mahalo Monday for some 100% pure FUN speculation on the next Hawaii flight schedule.
Enjoy.

Taking incentives from ONT airport to drum up new service. I can see ONT beating LAX to the mark as WNSoCal LA first Hawaii market.
ONT-HNL
10:15-13:30
HNL-ONT
15:10-23:40
SMF-HNL
11:00-13:35
HNL-SMF
15:20-23:55
SMF-OGG
12:00-14:35
OGG-SMF
15:20-23:55
SJC-KOA
12:25-15:00
KOA-SJC
13:55-22:00
OGG-SAN
12:55-19:05
SAN-OGG
09:50-13:20
HNL-SAN
14:10-20:15
SAN-HNL
09:00-12:30

HNL-LIH
06:30-07:30
08:50-09:50
13:30-14:30
LIH-HNL
07:00-08:00
12:35-13:35
20:30-21:30

This again is ALL armchair network planning speculation fun.
With Herbs Birthday this week and his love affair with Elvis. I can see the SMF,SAN and ONT fare sale kick off with (Herbs age) $88 dollar one way fares to Hawaii with the Elvis $68 comeback fares from Hawaii.

In all seriousness though with the Current MAX8 issues from the recent Crash WN has the fleet flexibility to push back both SJC,SMF and LAX into 2020 to cover the possibile grounding of the MAX8 fleet if needed.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:41 pm

barney captain wrote:
Remember -

This isn't just "new service" between two random cities - this is etops. While it isn't rocket science, it does require a certain amount of spool up time to get the pilots trained and qualified. We couldn't officially start that training until we got the green light from the feds. The Training Center is going gangbusters getting us all trained for the initial salvo to HI in April. The march schedules will be flown by Check Airman who have to get route qualified, who can then rte qual the rest of us. It takes a certain amount of time and you don't/can't flood the market with service you can't support because of the lack of unqualified crews.

Patience Padawans - this hibiscus has just begun to bloom.


And HERE is the main reason why WN entered service at the current levels. Another factor seems to be new aircraft delivery. We now seem to have almost all the answers.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:13 pm

More speculation from the business world that WN may not succeed in the Hawaiian market. Much already hashed out here. What is interesting is the much ballyhooed “WN effect” appears to be dead. With the costs of WN they no longer are the airline that can sell cheap tickets for anything other than a publicity stunt.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fool.com/amp/investing/2019/03/10/3-reasons-southwest-airlines-hawaii-service-could.aspx
 
jplatts
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:34 pm

mcdu wrote:
More speculation from the business world that WN may not succeed in the Hawaiian market. Much already hashed out here. What is interesting is the much ballyhooed “WN effect” appears to be dead. With the costs of WN they no longer are the airline that can sell cheap tickets for anything other than a publicity stunt.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fool.com/amp/investing/2019/03/10/3-reasons-southwest-airlines-hawaii-service-could.aspx


I think that WN will succeed on at least some of its California to Hawaii nonstop routes with a combination of O&D and connecting traffic.

There are markets in the Pacific, Arizona, Mountain, and Central Time Zones without nonstop service to Hawaii such as ABQ, AUS, MCI, MKE, BNA, RNO, STL, SAT, and TUS. Connecting traffic onto WN's California to Hawaii nonstop flights from markets that lack nonstop service to Hawaii will likely improve WN's performance on Hawaii to California nonstops since:
(a) WN already has significant market share and a strong frequent flyer base in some of the markets in the contiguous U.S. that lack nonstop service to Hawaii,
and
(b) some of the travelers going to Hawaii from contiguous U.S. markets that lack legacy carrier hubs and/or nonstop service to Hawaii would likely consider any available connecting options on WN.

There also some connecting itineraries that are longer than RNO-California-Hawaii and LAS-California-Hawaii that are already offered by WN, including PWM to Northern California through BWI, California to SJU, and LAS to SJU. WN also already offers multiple connecting options to SJU in both directions from OAK, LAX, SAN, and LAS.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2225
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:33 pm

Predicting the failure of WN in Hawaii before the first flight has even launched.

Wow.

The multitudes of already sold out flights indicate otherwise.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
mcdu
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:52 pm

barney captain wrote:
Predicting the failure of WN in Hawaii before the first flight has even launched.

Wow.

The multitudes of already sold out flights indicate otherwise.


Sold out flights are not a sign of success. The industry has seen Norwegian running extremely high LF pull out of markets and kill service because they lose money on their structure.

WN selling $49 fares won’t make a profit even on a full plane. No way that covers basic operating expenses west coast to Hawaii. Combine that with all the FF rewards being redeemed on HI flying and it just creates an even bigger deficit. But go on believing a high LF equals profits.
 
Thunderbolt500
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:01 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:34 pm

Who would to be on a narrow body for 5 or 6 hours.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 926
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:43 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
I am surprised they are only doing Hawaii at this point as a west cost O&D operation with almost no further connectivity?


That seems to be where most of the demand to/from Hawaii is based. It's a start, to say the least. Let's see where we are two or three years from now. While I'm sure WN wants as many people to take advantage of service to HNL, they're taking it slow as far as their expansion plans are concerned. That may be inconvenient for most non-West Coasters, but you'd rather do it right than do it quickly and haphazardly, right?
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
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bob75013
Posts: 882
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:44 pm

mcdu wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Predicting the failure of WN in Hawaii before the first flight has even launched.

Wow.

The multitudes of already sold out flights indicate otherwise.


Sold out flights are not a sign of success. The industry has seen Norwegian running extremely high LF pull out of markets and kill service because they lose money on their structure.

WN selling $49 fares won’t make a profit even on a full plane. No way that covers basic operating expenses west coast to Hawaii. Combine that with all the FF rewards being redeemed on HI flying and it just creates an even bigger deficit. But go on believing a high LF equals profits.


WN knows fliers are going to redeem RR points. It doesn't care if it's on OAK-HNL flights or on BWI-HOU flights. Either way it gets rid of an accumulated liability. A high load factor simply says that naysayers like you were wrong about Southwest's appeal for those wanting to get to Hawaii.

WN's high gpm (about 2x UAs the last time I checked) tells me the execs know what they are doing.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:08 pm

Thunderbolt500 wrote:
Who would to be on a narrow body for 5 or 6 hours.

Myself. The seat matters, not the number of isles.

All indications are that A321NEO flights are doing well. I heard the same arguments against JetBlue TCON flights and happily took them.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Chemist
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:10 am

mcdu wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Predicting the failure of WN in Hawaii before the first flight has even launched.

Wow.

The multitudes of already sold out flights indicate otherwise.


Sold out flights are not a sign of success. The industry has seen Norwegian running extremely high LF pull out of markets and kill service because they lose money on their structure.

WN selling $49 fares won’t make a profit even on a full plane. No way that covers basic operating expenses west coast to Hawaii. Combine that with all the FF rewards being redeemed on HI flying and it just creates an even bigger deficit. But go on believing a high LF equals profits.


Yes but there are certain posters who are so unobjectively negative about WN that we learn to take their opinions with a grain of salt.
 
baqnav
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:08 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:11 am

Thunderbolt500 wrote:
Who would to be on a narrow body for 5 or 6 hours.

I guess thousands every day. Look at Alaska Airlines map
My opions are mine, not my employers
 
737max8
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:56 am

mcdu wrote:
barney captain wrote:
Predicting the failure of WN in Hawaii before the first flight has even launched.

Wow.

The multitudes of already sold out flights indicate otherwise.


Sold out flights are not a sign of success. The industry has seen Norwegian running extremely high LF pull out of markets and kill service because they lose money on their structure.

WN selling $49 fares won’t make a profit even on a full plane. No way that covers basic operating expenses west coast to Hawaii. Combine that with all the FF rewards being redeemed on HI flying and it just creates an even bigger deficit. But go on believing a high LF equals profits.


There were only a few $49 seats on each flight...many tickets were sold at much higher fares.

And guess what? People will fly WN MORE in places like California on revenue (business) tickets to rack up points to take their families to Hawaii.

WN and their $3.5B in the bank shows they know what they are doing much more than you.

But you're a well known WN hater that twists everything towards your bias.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A343 A359 A388
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 465
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:16 am

I remember telling my friend about super cheap fares to Hawaii due to Southwest starting out, he seemed ecstatic about it, so I think people like it. Dunno why some particular people are bashing on the flight...
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5870
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:08 am

mcdu wrote:
With the costs of WN they no longer are the airline that can sell cheap tickets for anything other than a publicity stunt.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fool.com/amp/investing/2019/03/10/3-reasons-southwest-airlines-hawaii-service-could.aspx


WN has lower costs than AS, and much lower costs than AA/DL/UA. Even AS acknowledged that in a recent Investor Day presentation.

What UA/AA/DL/AS get as revenue premiums on Hawaii routes for F/E+/bags is an interesting question. What revenue drags WN will see from unrestricted FF redemptions and Companion Pass is an interesting question.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5870
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:13 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
I am surprised they are only doing Hawaii at this point as a west cost O&D operation with almost no further connectivity?


That seems to be where most of the demand to/from Hawaii is based. It's a start, to say the least. Let's see where we are two or three years from now. While I'm sure WN wants as many people to take advantage of service to HNL, they're taking it slow as far as their expansion plans are concerned. That may be inconvenient for most non-West Coasters, but you'd rather do it right than do it quickly and haphazardly, right?


This isn't a quick vs. cautious issue. It's a function of not doing redeyes - and has been talked about endlessly in this forum. WN doing things cautiously isn't going to make BWI any closer or fewer time zones away. It isn't going to make a WN 738 or Max 8 fly any faster.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:37 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
With the costs of WN they no longer are the airline that can sell cheap tickets for anything other than a publicity stunt.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fool.com/amp/investing/2019/03/10/3-reasons-southwest-airlines-hawaii-service-could.aspx


WN has lower costs than AS, and much lower costs than AA/DL/UA. Even AS acknowledged that in a recent Investor Day presentation.

What UA/AA/DL/AS get as revenue premiums on Hawaii routes for F/E+/bags is an interesting question. What revenue drags WN will see from unrestricted FF redemptions and Companion Pass is an interesting question.


The costs are not in competition with other carriers, it internal to WN. The costs are eating into their margins. The margins are what really determine the profitability. WN is in the position of trying to portray that they are a low cost carrier for consumers. However their fares are nearly identical to and in many cases more expensive than the legacy carriers. The reason for that is WN needs those higher fares to cover their higher cost of labor versus years past and the other inefficiencies in their operation. Combine the costs issues it has internally with a potentially more expensive maintenance contract the numbers get worse.

I don't think the legacy carriers worry too much about WN and their operation like they did in years past. WN is just another competitor that needs to charge higher fares to cover their higher cost.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18152
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:50 pm

mcdu wrote:
I don't think the legacy carriers worry too much about WN and their operation like they did in years past. WN is just another competitor that needs to charge higher fares to cover their higher cost.

I do not think vs. AS and HA, WN has much, if any cost advantage. The reality is, WN, HA, and AS all have very loyal customer bases. I do not think WN has an advantage.

I also believe WN's older software and processes went from an advantage to a disadvantage. Core strengths become core regidities.

I believe WN should do OK to Hawaii with their FF base. At this time, OAK, LAX, and a few other markets just expect Hawaii as an option.

WN needs to work on employee efficiency.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
joeljack
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:23 pm

Southwest zero'd out their Hawaii flights for the first week. Must be anticipating grounding the 737 Max 8's and they have no other airplane to fly to Hawaii.
 
737max8
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:32 pm

joeljack wrote:
Southwest zero'd out their Hawaii flights for the first week. Must be anticipating grounding the 737 Max 8's and they have no other airplane to fly to Hawaii.


They have been sold out since the day they went for sale, and the 737-800 will fly to Hawaii on this schedule, not the MAX...
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A343 A359 A388
 
barney captain
Posts: 2225
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:34 pm

joeljack wrote:
Southwest zero'd out their Hawaii flights for the first week. Must be anticipating grounding the 737 Max 8's and they have no other airplane to fly to Hawaii.



Except we aren't using the MAX for HI - we're using NG -800's.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
joeljack
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:21 pm

barney captain wrote:
joeljack wrote:
Southwest zero'd out their Hawaii flights for the first week. Must be anticipating grounding the 737 Max 8's and they have no other airplane to fly to Hawaii.



Except we aren't using the MAX for HI - we're using NG -800's.


Sorry, my fault, I was mistaken! They are zero'd out though, either they are ALL sold out or they have zero'd some of them and moved passenger to account for a possible Max grounding.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14329
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:42 pm

If WN were to face a NTSB/FAA grounding of 737MAX's I suspect they would sacrifice other routes before the new Hawaii service.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 926
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:27 pm

joeljack wrote:
barney captain wrote:
joeljack wrote:
Southwest zero'd out their Hawaii flights for the first week. Must be anticipating grounding the 737 Max 8's and they have no other airplane to fly to Hawaii.



Except we aren't using the MAX for HI - we're using NG -800's.


Sorry, my fault, I was mistaken! They are zero'd out though, either they are ALL sold out or they have zero'd some of them and moved passenger to account for a possible Max grounding.


Flightradar24 lists WN6808 OAK-HNL as an 1110 departure, and there's nothing to indicate it's been cancelled as of yet. I guess we'll see what happens on Sunday...
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
bob75013
Posts: 882
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:10 pm

mcdu wrote:

I seriously doubt WN’s success in Hawaii. They are not connecting enough people to onward from Hawaii and this is going to erode their viability.

Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.



There isn’t gold at the end of the rainbow for WN in Hawaii.


So, mcdu, are you man enough to admit that you were wrong?


I suspect not.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14001
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:29 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
joeljack wrote:
barney captain wrote:


Except we aren't using the MAX for HI - we're using NG -800's.


Sorry, my fault, I was mistaken! They are zero'd out though, either they are ALL sold out or they have zero'd some of them and moved passenger to account for a possible Max grounding.


Flightradar24 lists WN6808 OAK-HNL as an 1110 departure, and there's nothing to indicate it's been cancelled as of yet. I guess we'll see what happens on Sunday...


While all sorts of people on this thread would like for WN to fail, the flight is now boarding.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
barney captain
Posts: 2225
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:00 pm

The first revenue flight is airborne -

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA6808
Southeast Of Disorder
 
mcdu
Posts: 1535
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:29 pm

bob75013 wrote:
mcdu wrote:

I seriously doubt WN’s success in Hawaii. They are not connecting enough people to onward from Hawaii and this is going to erode their viability.

Hawaiia residents watch the news. They saw the threat to HA on the local news outlets. This will be a rallying cry to avoid using WN by locals. They did this with other threats to HA over the years. Even a super low cost operation like GO couldn’t make money. WN with their high cost is going to make this questionable decision to do inter island flying.



There isn’t gold at the end of the rainbow for WN in Hawaii.


So, mcdu, are you man enough to admit that you were wrong?


I suspect not.


About what? Day one of $49 tickets is not success. The locals I know don’t care if WN serves Hawaii. You still can’t get passengers from Hawaii east of PHX without an overnight stay in a hotel.

According to one of the pilot forums WN pilots are saying they are load restricting these flights to less than full due to concerns about weight issues. Blocking seats doesn’t help the bottom line either. The airlines with less dense seating can normally carry a full load to Hawaii in 737’s unless the winds are unusually strong.

There are a lot of articles linked in this thread from the financial community saying this is not a wise move for WN.
 
STLflyer
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:08 am

Re: Southwest get final authorization from FAA to begin Hawaii service

Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:22 pm

Load restrictions are likely temporary until they have some data on just what their planes are capable of.

IIRC, Qantas' PER-LHR flight began with load restrictions but they were slowly lifted as QF had more real world performance data.
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