LondonXtreme
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Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:45 am

Belgium is probably the only major West European country without nonstop service to California.

Will Brussels Airlines deploy its aircrafts with new long haul cabins by launching new service to LAX and SFO?

Also, I guess BRU maybe among priority new destinations if UA is seeking to expand European services from SFO in future. I believe we will see UA flies SFO-BRU before other major cities like MAD, ROM, MXP, LIS, VIE, CPH, etc...and any secondary cities in UK.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:50 am

Yes SN is coming to California. I can't share details yet but the ground work is being laid.

But lets not also forget, previously there have been attempts by folks like CityBird/Delsey and TUI without long term success in what has been largely turned out to be summer leisure market.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:22 am

Belgium? Major West European country?
 
B747forever
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:00 am

LAXintl wrote:
Yes SN is coming to California. I can't share details yet but the ground work is being laid.

But lets not also forget, previously there have been attempts by folks like CityBird/Delsey and TUI without long term success in what has been largely turned out to be summer leisure market.


Oh come on, don't just leave us hanging there ;) I understand that you can't share specific details, but is this something that is years away or within the next year or two?

I guess SFO is the more likely choice with the JV hub, but hopefully SN will surprise us like OS did and announce LAX!
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ME720
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:05 am

arcticcruiser wrote:
Belgium? Major West European country?


Yes it is.. a country of 11 million. A Founding memeber of the EU and NATO. Its capital is a major city in Europe, home to the HQ of NATO and the EU along with many int. companies .. add lobbyists and the largest concentration of journalists and diplomats in the world after Washington DC.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:23 am

I would love to see SFO-BRU. Right now, a lot of the itineraries require a morning transcon in order to connect to one of the afternoon departures to BRU from the east coast. It's not ideal.

I've also wondered whether DEN-BRU might be viable, at least in the summer. DEN has been growing internationally, and I'm always a little surprised at how much capacity UA already dumps into BRU from ORD, EWR, and IAD.

B747forever wrote:
I guess SFO is the more likely choice with the JV hub, but hopefully SN will surprise us like OS did and announce LAX!


LAX is most definitely a hub for United too. It's not what it used to be, and it was shrinking for a period of time, but it has stabilized now with 150+ daily departures.
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AF022
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:41 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
Belgium is probably the only major West European country without nonstop service to California.

Will Brussels Airlines deploy its aircrafts with new long haul cabins by launching new service to LAX and SFO?

Also, I guess BRU maybe among priority new destinations if UA is seeking to expand European services from SFO in future. I believe we will see UA flies SFO-BRU before other major cities like MAD, ROM, MXP, LIS, VIE, CPH, etc...and any secondary cities in UK.


Belgium is a major West European country?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:45 am

AF022 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
Belgium is probably the only major West European country without nonstop service to California.

Will Brussels Airlines deploy its aircrafts with new long haul cabins by launching new service to LAX and SFO?

Also, I guess BRU maybe among priority new destinations if UA is seeking to expand European services from SFO in future. I believe we will see UA flies SFO-BRU before other major cities like MAD, ROM, MXP, LIS, VIE, CPH, etc...and any secondary cities in UK.


Belgium is a major West European country?

That smart*ss question has been asked and answered earlier in the thread. One third of the thread so far has been about that ridiculous issue. If you can't be bothered to read through 6 posts before posting, then I guess you have no genuine interest in the topic?
 
DominoxX
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:52 am

AF022 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
Belgium is probably the only major West European country without nonstop service to California.

Will Brussels Airlines deploy its aircrafts with new long haul cabins by launching new service to LAX and SFO?

Also, I guess BRU maybe among priority new destinations if UA is seeking to expand European services from SFO in future. I believe we will see UA flies SFO-BRU before other major cities like MAD, ROM, MXP, LIS, VIE, CPH, etc...and any secondary cities in UK.


Belgium is a major West European country?


Frankly it is, it possess a high production rate per capita, a wealthy population, Antwerp the second largest European port and one of the only that can handle XL container ships, lots of wealthy companies and a major university are based here. Brussels has the EU headquarters... its a drab kingdom with a dirtyish capital but it IS a major West European country!
Belgium is very decentralised and with BRU in the middle it's essentially a California airport-Belgium service.

BRU-SFO makes sense; connections and business wise
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vfw614
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:49 am

ME720 wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
Belgium? Major West European country?


Yes it is.. a country of 11 million. A Founding memeber of the EU and NATO. Its capital is a major city in Europe, home to the HQ of NATO and the EU along with many int. companies .. add lobbyists and the largest concentration of journalists and diplomats in the world after Washington DC.


Well, North-Rhine Westfalia as the neighboring federal state of Germany has 18m and no flights to California either. So apparently too small a market if there are airports like CDG and AMS not that far away.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:06 pm

This just shows how poorly informed are the questions 'Why doesn't xxx have non-stop service to NYC/LAX...?' Italy is a country of 62 million people (and a big U.S. tourist destination) and doesn't have daily non-stops to LAX (let alone SFO). Any evidence that port volume creates a big demand for air traffic? Any evidence that being 'The Heart of Europe' or the 'Capital of Europe' creates big air travel demand to SFO or LAX? Successful routes are a complicated function of population, discretionary income, business and cultural ties, often bilateral air treaties, airport conditions, and aircraft size and range. You need to bring more than population figures from an almanac - a ten year-old can do that.
 
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:06 pm

duplicate from database error
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:12 pm

intotheair wrote:
I would love to see SFO-BRU. Right now, a lot of the itineraries require a morning transcon in order to connect to one of the afternoon departures to BRU from the east coast. It's not ideal.

I've also wondered whether DEN-BRU might be viable, at least in the summer. DEN has been growing internationally, and I'm always a little surprised at how much capacity UA already dumps into BRU from ORD, EWR, and IAD.

B747forever wrote:
I guess SFO is the more likely choice with the JV hub, but hopefully SN will surprise us like OS did and announce LAX!


LAX is most definitely a hub for United too. It's not what it used to be, and it was shrinking for a period of time, but it has stabilized now with 150+ daily departures.


I'd suggest you to try UA afternoon departure to CDG to avoid the morning transcon, CDG offers very smooth HSR connections tu Brussels.

Other options are MUC and FRA connecting to Brussels on LH
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FlyRow
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:14 pm

What demand would there be that can't be covered by a single interchange via a lot of options?

While it is major EU/NATO political hub, what demand does it create to california?
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Mortyman
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:14 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:
Belgium? Major West European country?



For diplomats, millitary and government officials, business people and beer lovers, yes. Brussels is considered the capital of EU and a major country.
 
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:57 pm

LAXintl wrote:
But lets not also forget, previously there have been attempts by folks like CityBird/Delsey and TUI without long term success in what has been largely turned out to be summer leisure market.

Previous attempts were relying on O/D traffic only. Depending on where in California they land, Brussels Airlines may benefit from connecting traffic at both ends and that may help fill up planes, but they'd be competing with quite a few other airlines. The biggest impediment to success is the size of the California - Belgium market. BRU has enough capacity to ORD, IAD, and EWR that no one will backtrack from California to states East.
 
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:56 pm

How much demand is there from California to BRU? EWR/IAD benefit from governmental/UN/NGOs/military/etc travel, most of which California doesn't have a lot of. ORD is a shorter stage length and can get connecting pax.

I would say that any route would need to rely on connections on the BRU side. For *A loyalists, that would be to West/Central Africa. TK flies to most, but IST is out of the way. But again, not sure how much traffic there is, and how much other carriers like AF dominate those routings.
 
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:12 pm

SN was in SFO a few years ago scoping out hotels prior to the attacks in Brussles. SFO-BRU service was pretty much a done deal at the time but the attacks changed everything. Since then SFO Int'l service has exploded and SFO is gate-constrained big time, especially in the late afternoons when all the European carriers need space. Both LO and OS preferred to start SFO before LAX same as EI, SK, and AY but they simply couldn't get gates when they needed them... I suspect now SN will do the same.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:27 pm

I think a case could be made that SN should start service to IAH before SFO. There is quite a bit of oil and gas traffic from Houston to West and Central Africa that SN could connect IAH to via BRU. Houston also has a fairly sizable expat community of West Africans, Nigerians being the largest, but many others countries are represented. Currently, much of the energy and VFR traffic out of Houston flies AF via CDG. A SN A330 5x/week with Star Alliance feed on both ends could probably command some decent loads.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:41 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I think a case could be made that SN should start service to IAH before SFO. There is quite a bit of oil and gas traffic from Houston to West and Central Africa that SN could connect IAH to via BRU. Houston also has a fairly sizable expat community of West Africans, Nigerians being the largest, but many others countries are represented. Currently, much of the energy and VFR traffic out of Houston flies AF via CDG. A SN A330 5x/week with Star Alliance feed on both ends could probably command some decent loads.

Well, you kinda answer the question as to why IAH-BRU does not exist: if the sole purpose is to link IAH to West and Central Africa, it can be done through CDG with AF (or ATL with DL, depending on which country in Africa) or LHR (BA) or FRA (LH).
 
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intotheair
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:08 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I would love to see SFO-BRU. Right now, a lot of the itineraries require a morning transcon in order to connect to one of the afternoon departures to BRU from the east coast. It's not ideal.

I've also wondered whether DEN-BRU might be viable, at least in the summer. DEN has been growing internationally, and I'm always a little surprised at how much capacity UA already dumps into BRU from ORD, EWR, and IAD.

B747forever wrote:
I guess SFO is the more likely choice with the JV hub, but hopefully SN will surprise us like OS did and announce LAX!


LAX is most definitely a hub for United too. It's not what it used to be, and it was shrinking for a period of time, but it has stabilized now with 150+ daily departures.


I'd suggest you to try UA afternoon departure to CDG to avoid the morning transcon, CDG offers very smooth HSR connections tu Brussels.

Other options are MUC and FRA connecting to Brussels on LH


Oh yes, I've done that before. I guess my problem is more that I'm looking for a UA or AF award ticket to either Paris or Brussels this summer and there's already not a lot of availability left on SFO-CDG, and the options for SFO-BRU are generally not ideal. Looks like there's a lot of award availability on UA and KL for SFO-AMS, though that might be a little out of my way.
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Jutlander
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:45 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
I'd suggest you to try UA afternoon departure to CDG to avoid the morning transcon, CDG offers very smooth HSR connections tu Brussels.

Other options are MUC and FRA connecting to Brussels on LH


AMS is closer to BRU than CDG and has HSR connections to Brussels too. Besides that, AMS is also a really nice airport while CDG is a dump.

KL/DL fly LAX-AMS and connect to the HSR to BRU.
 
TYCOON
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:54 pm

Jutlander wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
I'd suggest you to try UA afternoon departure to CDG to avoid the morning transcon, CDG offers very smooth HSR connections tu Brussels.

Other options are MUC and FRA connecting to Brussels on LH


AMS is closer to BRU than CDG and has HSR connections to Brussels too. Besides that, AMS is also a really nice airport while CDG is a dump.

KL/DL fly LAX-AMS and connect to the HSR to BRU.


Who would take a 3-hour train from Brussels to Schiphol when you can do Brussels to CDG in about 90 minutes!!??? And personally, I much prefer CDG 2E where AF LAX flights leave from than any terminal at AMS... and I know both VERY well...
 
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:54 pm

B747forever wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Yes SN is coming to California. I can't share details yet but the ground work is being laid.

But lets not also forget, previously there have been attempts by folks like CityBird/Delsey and TUI without long term success in what has been largely turned out to be summer leisure market.


Oh come on, don't just leave us hanging there ;) I understand that you can't share specific details, but is this something that is years away or within the next year or two?

I guess SFO is the more likely choice with the JV hub, but hopefully SN will surprise us like OS did and announce LAX!


Given LAXintl's expertise in the LAX market, I'd lean in that direction. I'd assume "the ground work is being laid" means a startup in 1-2 years.
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Jutlander
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:07 pm

TYCOON wrote:
Who would take a 3-hour train from Brussels to Schiphol when you can do Brussels to CDG in about 90 minutes!!??? And personally, I much prefer CDG 2E where AF LAX flights leave from than any terminal at AMS... and I know both VERY well...


Where do you get that a train ride from Brussels to AMS takes 3 hours? I've just looked it up, it's 93 minutes. The fastest connection from Brussels to CDG I could find was 130 minutes and takes one transfer in Paris North. Brussels-AMS is non-stop.

I am also familiar with both airports, but I always hated CDG. If you ask me AMS is much better.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:14 pm

TYCOON wrote:
Who would take a 3-hour train from Brussels to Schiphol when you can do Brussels to CDG in about 90 minutes!!???

According to the Dutch Railways travel time between Brussels and Schiphol is 95 minutes.

https://www.nsinternational.nl/en/belgi ... s-schiphol

But who would take a train when you can still fly to Amsterdam five times per day on KLM? ;)
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:23 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
But who would take a train when you can still fly to Amsterdam five times per day on KLM? ;)


True, however GroenLinks (a left-wing political party in the Netherlands) has complained about that flight. They'd like to see it scrapped and replaced by train connections which are already available. The high speed trains from Amsterdam airport all got flight numbers on them and are bookable as such.

I got to admit they got a fair point, these flights are rather useless since the train forms a viable alternative. Scrapping those flights would also benefit KLM as they can use the slots for other destinations that might be more profitable.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:24 pm

Jutlander wrote:
I am also familiar with both airports, but I always hated CDG. If you ask me AMS is much better.

Travelling through AMS is certainly always a much better experience than having to use CDG. I think AMS is one of the best airports in the world. Everything is under one roof. No need to change terminals.
 
910A
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:30 pm

SN will do just fine in either LAX/SFO. My question is how would SN handle the Africa connections. Would the plane stay overnight and then have a noon departure to BRU or would they offer overnight accommodations for those going on to Africa?
 
LurveBus
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:35 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
TYCOON wrote:
Who would take a 3-hour train from Brussels to Schiphol when you can do Brussels to CDG in about 90 minutes!!???

According to the Dutch Railways travel time between Brussels and Schiphol is 95 minutes.

https://www.nsinternational.nl/en/belgi ... s-schiphol

But who would take a train when you can still fly to Amsterdam five times per day on KLM? ;)


The Thalys to Schiphol is not cheap and adds a substantial amount to the fare. The regular train is slightly more reasonable and takes much longer. That makes CDG slightly more convenient, although the TGV service to CDG is less frequent.

I’ve done both, and honestly, I find it much easier to just fly from BRU and connect at LHR. A nonstop would be nice, and they can siphon off AMS traffic while it’s maxed out for the next few years.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:36 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I got to admit they got a fair point, these flights are rather useless since the train forms a viable alternative. Scrapping those flights would also benefit KLM as they can use the slots for other destinations that might be more profitable.

Being able to connect airside and have your luggage labelled through to your final destination also has its advantages.

Personally I'd rather see environmentalists crack down on the more than ten million motor vehicles in the Netherlands instead of a handful of flights between Amsterdam and Brussels.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:59 pm

Citybird served OAK-BRU in the mid 90's for a while.
They were somewhat of a LCC.

Today, I think this might be a good route for Norwegian or Level. People who really want that non stop can have it, they can also fill it with backpackers, etc who don't care where they arrive in Europe.

I've flown into BRU twice. Both times I had multi city itineraries planned, so it was just adding on more European destination to my trip and BRU was the cheapest option across the pond from NYC at those times.
 
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nordikcam
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:30 pm

Jutlander wrote:
TYCOON wrote:
Who would take a 3-hour train from Brussels to Schiphol when you can do Brussels to CDG in about 90 minutes!!??? And personally, I much prefer CDG 2E where AF LAX flights leave from than any terminal at AMS... and I know both VERY well...


Where do you get that a train ride from Brussels to AMS takes 3 hours? I've just looked it up, it's 93 minutes. The fastest connection from Brussels to CDG I could find was 130 minutes and takes one transfer in Paris North. Brussels-AMS is non-stop.

I am also familiar with both airports, but I always hated CDG. If you ask me AMS is much better.


Direct TGV ( HSR ) ZYR CDG is 70 minutes...if the TGV does not go through LILLE. If one stop in LILLE...it's a little bit longer...20 minutes more. Never 130 minutes ! You did not have to transfer in Gare du Nord in Paris !

To AMS one THALYS to Schiphol every hour in 90 minutes... each day and intercity train every hour I guess in 3 hours !
I use BRU, AMS and CDG ( 2 long haul/week ) and I'm living in Brussels and Paris !
 
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OA940
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:41 pm

Could they serve it with the new A330s they're getting or are those just replacements for the -200s and old -300s?
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sn26567
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:24 pm

Does anyone remember the Braniff 747 flights from SFO to BRU for $49? That didn't last very long...
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B747forever
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:13 am

SFOA380 wrote:
SN was in SFO a few years ago scoping out hotels prior to the attacks in Brussles. SFO-BRU service was pretty much a done deal at the time but the attacks changed everything. Since then SFO Int'l service has exploded and SFO is gate-constrained big time, especially in the late afternoons when all the European carriers need space. Both LO and OS preferred to start SFO before LAX same as EI, SK, and AY but they simply couldn't get gates when they needed them... I suspect now SN will do the same.


I don't get your comment at all. So according to you, SFO is the primary airport in California with LAX only getting international service from carriers that are forced there due to gate constraints at SFO? The number of passengers, movements, destinations and carriers at LAX compared to SFO speaks something else.

SFO and LAX serve two different markets. Your comment would make more sense if both airports were located in the same market/city, such as LHR vs LGW. When a carrier starts LAX it is because they want to serve the Los Angeles area, and not as an alternative way to serve SF because SFO is full.

Do you really think that both LO and OS decided to fly to LAX only because there were no gates available at SFO? You don't just commit to fly a +12 hour flight to a different market just because you don't get slots at the airport serving another market.
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910A
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:38 am

sn26567 wrote:
Does anyone remember the Braniff 747 flights from SFO to BRU for $49? That didn't last very long...


I believe it was People Express not Braniff, as BN shut down in 1982...People Express operated SFO-EWR-BRU. That was the only way they were able to get in SFO is by having an international destination as the only gates available at the time to handle an 747 was in the international terminal. Lou Turpen was the San Francisco Airports Director at the time and he was anti-PE big time, he didn't want his clogged up with discount carriers that were here today and gone tomorrow..OAK became home for most of them.
Last edited by 910A on Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:40 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
This just shows how poorly informed are the questions 'Why doesn't xxx have non-stop service to NYC/LAX...?' Italy is a country of 62 million people (and a big U.S. tourist destination) and doesn't have daily non-stops to LAX (let alone SFO). Any evidence that port volume creates a big demand for air traffic? Any evidence that being 'The Heart of Europe' or the 'Capital of Europe' creates big air travel demand to SFO or LAX? Successful routes are a complicated function of population, discretionary income, business and cultural ties, often bilateral air treaties, airport conditions, and aircraft size and range. You need to bring more than population figures from an almanac - a ten year-old can do that.


In case you hadn't noticed, all the big tech companies are facing huge regulatory and policy challenges. (Do we really think it's a coincidence that Amazon is placing HQ2 in the DC area?) That alone means a lot of trips between SF and Brussels. The same is true of the pharmaceutical/life sciences industries. Then there is energy. One of the oil majors, Chevron, is headquartered in the Bay Area, as is a big engineering contractor, Bechtel; companies like these have reason to go not only to Europe, but also to Africa, which is an SN niche market. This, combined with Star Alliance feed, means they can probably fill forward cabin on a 5x weekly A330, and that SFO is probably a more logical choice than LAX.
 
Chasensfo
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Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:50 am

CityBird flew a mix of MD-11s and 767-300s BRU-OAK from about 1996-1999(a cool MD-11 cockpit VHS from Justplanes videos of the OAK route), and SABENA or SOBELAIR flew SFO-BRU with 767s and A340-200s in the mid/late 90s(T2 had a faded curbside "SABENA" sign for many years until renovations around 2008 or so). Both services only lasted a few years and no one has tried the Bay Area - Belgium route in about 20 years. Can't even find a picture on any of the database sites of SABENA/SOBELAIR at SFO, but I saw them often!

sn26567 wrote:
Does anyone remember the Braniff 747 flights from SFO to BRU for $49? That didn't last very long...

Wow! I never knew of Braniff flying any international from SFO, just 1-stops to South America with DC-8s via LAX. When was this? Didn't even know a Braniff 747 landed at SFO before.
 
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SFOA380
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:35 am

Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:04 am

B747forever wrote:
SFOA380 wrote:
SN was in SFO a few years ago scoping out hotels prior to the attacks in Brussles. SFO-BRU service was pretty much a done deal at the time but the attacks changed everything. Since then SFO Int'l service has exploded and SFO is gate-constrained big time, especially in the late afternoons when all the European carriers need space. Both LO and OS preferred to start SFO before LAX same as EI, SK, and AY but they simply couldn't get gates when they needed them... I suspect now SN will do the same.


I don't get your comment at all. So according to you, SFO is the primary airport in California with LAX only getting international service from carriers that are forced there due to gate constraints at SFO? The number of passengers, movements, destinations and carriers at LAX compared to SFO speaks something else.

SFO and LAX serve two different markets. Your comment would make more sense if both airports were located in the same market/city, such as LHR vs LGW. When a carrier starts LAX it is because they want to serve the Los Angeles area, and not as an alternative way to serve SF because SFO is full.

Do you really think that both LO and OS decided to fly to LAX only because there were no gates available at SFO? You don't just commit to fly a +12 hour flight to a different market just because you don't get slots at the airport serving another market.


All I am saying is that it was pretty widely speculated here (I get that this doesn't necessarily mean anything) that both OS and LO were interested in making SFO their first western US gateway... I know for a fact neither could be accommodated because of gate constraints... SFO/LAX - BRU PDEW is pretty close but there's a yield-gap that favors SFO... probably because of all the pharma traffic. Whether or not LO and OS started LAX simply because of the gate problem at SFO? I have no idea... Not at all trying to start a pissing match here... This is not a Dallas vs. Houston thing... We are to LA what Boston is to NYC...
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 23550
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:12 am

PeoplExpress also tried OAK-BRU.
Obviously did not last long.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
B747forever
Posts: 13742
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:49 am

SFOA380 wrote:
B747forever wrote:
SFOA380 wrote:
SN was in SFO a few years ago scoping out hotels prior to the attacks in Brussles. SFO-BRU service was pretty much a done deal at the time but the attacks changed everything. Since then SFO Int'l service has exploded and SFO is gate-constrained big time, especially in the late afternoons when all the European carriers need space. Both LO and OS preferred to start SFO before LAX same as EI, SK, and AY but they simply couldn't get gates when they needed them... I suspect now SN will do the same.


I don't get your comment at all. So according to you, SFO is the primary airport in California with LAX only getting international service from carriers that are forced there due to gate constraints at SFO? The number of passengers, movements, destinations and carriers at LAX compared to SFO speaks something else.

SFO and LAX serve two different markets. Your comment would make more sense if both airports were located in the same market/city, such as LHR vs LGW. When a carrier starts LAX it is because they want to serve the Los Angeles area, and not as an alternative way to serve SF because SFO is full.

Do you really think that both LO and OS decided to fly to LAX only because there were no gates available at SFO? You don't just commit to fly a +12 hour flight to a different market just because you don't get slots at the airport serving another market.


All I am saying is that it was pretty widely speculated here (I get that this doesn't necessarily mean anything) that both OS and LO were interested in making SFO their first western US gateway... I know for a fact neither could be accommodated because of gate constraints... SFO/LAX - BRU PDEW is pretty close but there's a yield-gap that favors SFO... probably because of all the pharma traffic. Whether or not LO and OS started LAX simply because of the gate problem at SFO? I have no idea... Not at all trying to start a pissing match here... This is not a Dallas vs. Houston thing... We are to LA what Boston is to NYC...


I appreciate your follow up comment. Maybe I came across too harsh, and as you say we dont need another DFW vs IAH ;).

To be honest, I was a bit surprised that OS made LAX their West Coast gateway bearing in mind the TATL JV between LH group and UA. I don't know what the PDEW between SFO/LAX-VIE is, but maybe the reason that OS went to LAX is because of a substantially larger local market, despite the JV hub up the road with a much larger feed at the US end. With an SFO service it would truly be a hub to hub route.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
910A
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:50 am

sn26567 wrote:
Does anyone remember the Braniff 747 flights
Chasensfo wrote:
from SFO to BRU for $49? That didn't last very long...

Wow! I never knew of Braniff flying any international from SFO, just 1-stops to South America with DC-8s via LAX. When was this? Didn't even know a Braniff 747 landed at SFO before.


I was being polite to the other poster, you are right BN did not operate any scheduled 747 flights from SFO on the DC-8 that wander down to LAX, LIM and points south. When deregulation came, BN set up their domestic side at OAK.
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:23 am

SFOA380 wrote:
All I am saying is that it was pretty widely speculated here (I get that this doesn't necessarily mean anything) that both OS and LO were interested in making SFO their first western US gateway... I know for a fact neither could be accommodated because of gate constraints...

Careful there, "they're watching". What gate constraints? :)

910A wrote:
sn26567 wrote:
I was being polite to the other poster, you are right BN did not operate any scheduled 747 flights from SFO on the DC-8 that wander down to LAX, LIM and points south. When deregulation came, BN set up their domestic side at OAK.

LOL ah I see. I've learned so many wacky things like that over the years, one never knows. I forgot about PeopleExpress OAK-BRU. Both PeopleExpress and Tower Air have dabbled in some random Bay Area routes that were short-lived. Tower Air was also doing OAK-ORY for several years and it was a nice money maker at the time, but I am guessing Corsair put a stop to that. Had no idea that Braniff relocated to OAK, I had thought they stopped serving the Bay Area by the 80s altogether. Thank you for the info.
 
OAKSpotter
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:00 am

Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:00 am

Not to forget CityBird did OAK-BRU at times and stopped at LAX using the Boeing 767-300ER. The route did very well and was profitable at that time.
 
TYCOON
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:20 pm

Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:00 am

Jutlander wrote:
TYCOON wrote:
Who would take a 3-hour train from Brussels to Schiphol when you can do Brussels to CDG in about 90 minutes!!??? And personally, I much prefer CDG 2E where AF LAX flights leave from than any terminal at AMS... and I know both VERY well...


Where do you get that a train ride from Brussels to AMS takes 3 hours? I've just looked it up, it's 93 minutes. The fastest connection from Brussels to CDG I could find was 130 minutes and takes one transfer in Paris North. Brussels-AMS is non-stop.

I am also familiar with both airports, but I always hated CDG. If you ask me AMS is much better.


My bad... I forgot the Thalys had upgraded the service north of Antwerp to high-speed. The last time I went from Brussels to Amsterdam via the Thalys was admittedly some years ago and it took three hours after leaving Brussels.
There are trains from Brussels - Midi directly to CDG without any stops (not the case to AMS)... You don't need to go via Gare du Nord. I have done it multiple times and doing it again in May. The Thalys arrives directly at CDG2 and you just have to go upstairs and you are in the heart of Terminal 2... Very easy. In fact Air France puts it in their system as a flight (ie AF#7182) and they have at least one whole coach reserved for them (with an AF drink service included). AF no longer operates any aircraft between CDG/ORY and BRU... only the train between ZYR (code for Brussels-Midi) and CDG.

But back on thread, I would love to see Brussels Airlines at LAX although I admit SFO may make more sense.
 
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Flying Belgian
Posts: 1947
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

Re: Nonstop between California and Belgium

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:35 am

SN needs two A330s to have it worked out even for 5x weekly flight. They are currently too constrained long-haul fleet wise.

LH has made it clear that no new North American flights would be operated by SN.
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