dmstorm22
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:16 pm

sabby wrote:
If AA have corporate contracts with a handful of the large Investment Banks at NY/NJ, they can try JFK-BLR. Pretty much all the big banks have their back offices in BLR and they are the only firms who still allow J fares for all IT employees for long hauls unlike most of the typical IT firms. NYC would ensure larger number of O&D customers who will pay premium for non-stop, along with the contracts and nearby connections at both ends, this route could get AA on India without a single competitor but more yield compared to BOM or DEL. The route is 7200nm though so they may need to block seats or make a more premium heavy config when they get their second batch of 789s.


Let's see them run one India route from a hub that actually works before we start thinking they can take a bite on the NY-India market (especially to BLR,which neither AI or UA have tried yet).

Also, a lot of the major banks have their back offices spread out around India, be it Navi Mumbai, or Gurgaon, etc.

I think it's only a matter of time before either AI/UA (or throw AA in there if you want) starts a Bangalore route, but think it's either SFO, or EWR where it comes from.
 
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:26 pm

Since UA cancelled it's IAH-LOS an few years ago and 5Y cancelled it's IAH-LAD last year, a DFW-Africa flight would be nice to see.
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ILS28ORD
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:28 pm

GripenFan wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
The article suggests India will likely not be served from ORD as it was previously and lost plenty of money, but rather from Philadelphia


Given the tech connections between the Chicago area and India the suggestion AA couldn't make this work appears to not bode well for the long-term viability of their ORD hub...


AA has shown no interest or intent to connect pax through ORD internationally on their own metal. Only JV carriers. ORD has become basically a domestic hub for them. Or seasonal INTL hub at best. But the hub itself isn't going anywhere.
 
PI4EVER
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:31 pm

PHL's catchment area has a large Indian population that includes PA, NJ, DE and MD.
Don't underestimate the O/D potential for PHL if a nonstop to any Indian city would be offered.
A large corporate customer for AA is Merck which is headquartered in nearby Lansdale, PA and big business banking, medical, logistics, education and
tourism that stimulates onward travel to NYC and WAS.
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mpdpilot
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:56 pm

American 767 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
Could they make it to JNB? Plenty of connection opportunities on BA Comair from there to the rest of South Africa plus Harare, Windhoek etc


The problem with JNB is the airport is elevated at 5000+ft above Sea Level. The 787 could reach JNB nonstop from the United States, I don't think that would be a problem, the main concern is taking off out of JNB with a full load of pax and fuel. On the way back from JNB they would have to plan a fuel stop somewhere since the airplane wouldn't be able to take off at its MTOW given the hot and high conditions.


Yeah the elevation in JNB is killer. I just did the rough math from Boeing's Compatability data and to do JNB-MIA with the 787 they could carry about 40,000lbs. While not terrible, a full passenger load without bags is ~55,000. To put it another way non-stop with AA's 789 would mean that they could only carry ~200/285 passengers.

They could do a triangle with Cape Town though, MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA.
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Arion640
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:01 pm

IAmGaroott wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see a summer seasonal PHL-CMN or even PHL-RAK.

Morocco is getting to be extremely popular now with Americans. US had, and now AA has a lot of experience in doing these seasonal routes, and I feel like they could probably make Morocco work.


RAK would be my first guess for AA African service. Just as an induction for Royal Air Maroc into One World.


Can’t see that happening, the market just seems too small for RAK-US.

Where could AA fly in Africa apart from JNB? NBO? DFW-Lagos for oil purposes?
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HUYfan
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:13 pm

Cairo maybe?

Nobody seems to have mentioned Cairo. Could Philadelphia to Cairo be a possibility?

Kind regards HUYfan
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:45 pm

sabby wrote:
If AA have corporate contracts with a handful of the large Investment Banks at NY/NJ, they can try JFK-BLR. Pretty much all the big banks have their back offices in BLR and they are the only firms who still allow J fares for all IT employees for long hauls unlike most of the typical IT firms. NYC would ensure larger number of O&D customers who will pay premium for non-stop, along with the contracts and nearby connections at both ends, this route could get AA on India without a single competitor but more yield compared to BOM or DEL. The route is 7200nm though so they may need to block seats or make a more premium heavy config when they get their second batch of 789s.


I can almost see them do this, and it would last for a hot minute, like JFK-STN, JFK-LYS, and other off the wall routes they've tried and eventually dropped over the years, from JFK. The reality though is no one is flying NYC-BLR nonstop today and yes, the banks have lots of staff in BLR and Pune and other locales in India so such a route could make sense but only on a 787-8 and only with deep corporate contracts.
 
BWA900
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:34 pm

MIA/JFK/PHL to ACC or LOS. Nigeria for example, offers O&D and VFR, and as the largest economy on the continent the route could be sustainable. Maybe tagging a codeshare with an airline in West Africa could help them. CMN is also a good city as it expands on RAM's network. EK is still very much the airline of preference in West Africa for people seeking to get to the US, maybe AA can change this.
Last edited by BWA900 on Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nomorerjs
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:35 pm

Arion640 wrote:
IAmGaroott wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see a summer seasonal PHL-CMN or even PHL-RAK.

Morocco is getting to be extremely popular now with Americans. US had, and now AA has a lot of experience in doing these seasonal routes, and I feel like they could probably make Morocco work.


RAK would be my first guess for AA African service. Just as an induction for Royal Air Maroc into One World.


Can’t see that happening, the market just seems too small for RAK-US.

Where could AA fly in Africa apart from JNB? NBO? DFW-Lagos for oil purposes?


DFW is not an oil market. Sure Exxon and Hunt are based here, but the jobs are in Houston.

ORD won’t happen, given.

PHL and DFW make no sense for Africa, only MIA does. Why people think CLT is happening is a joke.

Now DFW to India I could see.
 
B737900ER
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:40 pm

If IAH-LOS doesn’t work with oil traffic, connections, and healthy O&D, what makes you think DFW would work without oil traffic, and inferior O&D?
 
jfk777
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:41 pm

ILS28ORD wrote:
GripenFan wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
The article suggests India will likely not be served from ORD as it was previously and lost plenty of money, but rather from Philadelphia


Given the tech connections between the Chicago area and India the suggestion AA couldn't make this work appears to not bode well for the long-term viability of their ORD hub...


AA has shown no interest or intent to connect pax through ORD internationally on their own metal. Only JV carriers. ORD has become basically a domestic hub for them. Or seasonal INTL hub at best. But the hub itself isn't going anywhere.


AA's ORD is "only" a domestic hub, interesting, so who is the biggest airline on the biggest international route at ORD ? Not United. AA is the biggest to London. AA flies to quite a long list of European cities from ORD. One has to expect UA to be bigger to Asia since they didn't have to build their Asia Pacific system one route at a time like AA has done, UA purchased Pan Am's system in 1986 and became huge in Asia overnight.

While AA does have JV's with BA & JAL, UA does too with LH & ANA which operate from the United terminal at O"Hare.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:55 am

jfk777 wrote:
ILS28ORD wrote:
GripenFan wrote:

Given the tech connections between the Chicago area and India the suggestion AA couldn't make this work appears to not bode well for the long-term viability of their ORD hub...


AA has shown no interest or intent to connect pax through ORD internationally on their own metal. Only JV carriers. ORD has become basically a domestic hub for them. Or seasonal INTL hub at best. But the hub itself isn't going anywhere.


AA's ORD is "only" a domestic hub, interesting, so who is the biggest airline on the biggest international route at ORD ? Not United. AA is the biggest to London. AA flies to quite a long list of European cities from ORD. One has to expect UA to be bigger to Asia since they didn't have to build their Asia Pacific system one route at a time like AA has done, UA purchased Pan Am's system in 1986 and became huge in Asia overnight.

While AA does have JV's with BA & JAL, UA does too with LH & ANA which operate from the United terminal at O"Hare.


For the most part, outside of LHR and Canada, ORDs International presence is limited to seasonal routes and CUN. CDG runs about 47 weeks a years, so that is close. All other routes are seasonal. AA can’t make ORD - MEX work and MEX is the largest market in North America.

AA barely serves HNL from ORD after years of not flying the route and doesn’t offer seasonal ANC service.

Outside of LHR and seasonal service to a ATH / BCN / VCE, UA owns ORD international traffic. This wasn’t the case years ago. UA has expanded while AA has contracted and basically outsourced International to partners (AY, CX, JL, etc.).
 
Cointrin330
Topic Author
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:43 am

jfk777 wrote:
ILS28ORD wrote:
GripenFan wrote:

Given the tech connections between the Chicago area and India the suggestion AA couldn't make this work appears to not bode well for the long-term viability of their ORD hub...


AA has shown no interest or intent to connect pax through ORD internationally on their own metal. Only JV carriers. ORD has become basically a domestic hub for them. Or seasonal INTL hub at best. But the hub itself isn't going anywhere.


AA's ORD is "only" a domestic hub, interesting, so who is the biggest airline on the biggest international route at ORD ? Not United. AA is the biggest to London. AA flies to quite a long list of European cities from ORD. One has to expect UA to be bigger to Asia since they didn't have to build their Asia Pacific system one route at a time like AA has done, UA purchased Pan Am's system in 1986 and became huge in Asia overnight.

Umm..no. AA does not fly to a long list of European cities from ORD. It used to, in the 1990s but everything has been cut, except LHR which is year round. CDG is seasonal, as are BCN, VCE, FCO, and ATH, the only other AA routes to Europe from ORD. In the 1990s, AA had LHR, CDG, MAN, ZRH, ARN, FRA, MXP, BRU, BHX, TXL (briefly), MUC. All of those were cut. ORD is not intended to be a long haul hub for intercontinental flights for AA since the merger. AA has PHL, CLT, MIA, and DFW for that.


While AA does have JV's with BA & JAL, UA does too with LH & ANA which operate from the United terminal at O"Hare.
 
LH658
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:53 am

LAX - India and DFW - India

MIA - South Africa.
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:55 am

VS4ever wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region

This tells me QR is doing pretty at PHL?


Yields, who knows.

Loads for 2018 (combined direction), from T-100 data, this is the raw data not modified for any errors in seat counts, although they have been getting better at reporting them, so use this data at your own risk.

1 89.58%
2 65.73%
3 79.57%
4 69.63%
5 70.47%
6 79.00%
7 90.27%
8 84.75%
Average: 78.84%, Inbound 79.99%, outbound 77.7%

Ranking of QR routes for Jan to August 18 again, combined direction.

(1) ORD - 85.62%
(2) ATL - 83.12%
(3) BOS - 82.35%
(4) LAX - 81.96%
(5) JFK - 81.55%
(6) DFW - 79.35%
(7) IAH - 79.12%
(8) PHL - 78.84%
(9) IAD - 73.37%
(10) MIA - 71.62%


Wow didn’t know QR Atlanta flight was doing that well. I wonder how Turkish Airline loads are from ATL.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:59 am

anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.

This makes no sense, no connectivity. Never happens.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:27 am

Atlwarrior wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
This tells me QR is doing pretty at PHL?


Yields, who knows.

Loads for 2018 (combined direction), from T-100 data, this is the raw data not modified for any errors in seat counts, although they have been getting better at reporting them, so use this data at your own risk.

1 89.58%
2 65.73%
3 79.57%
4 69.63%
5 70.47%
6 79.00%
7 90.27%
8 84.75%
Average: 78.84%, Inbound 79.99%, outbound 77.7%

Ranking of QR routes for Jan to August 18 again, combined direction.

(1) ORD - 85.62%
(2) ATL - 83.12%
(3) BOS - 82.35%
(4) LAX - 81.96%
(5) JFK - 81.55%
(6) DFW - 79.35%
(7) IAH - 79.12%
(8) PHL - 78.84%
(9) IAD - 73.37%
(10) MIA - 71.62%


Wow didn’t know QR Atlanta flight was doing that well. I wonder how Turkish Airline loads are from ATL.


Same rules as above, ask and you shall receive
1 - 68.24%
2 - 63.15%
3 - 73.37%
4 - 72.15%
5 - 80.40%
6 - 80.81%
7 - 81.78%
8 - 80.85%
Avg - 75.42%

(1) ORD-IST - 92.09%
(2) IAD-IST - 91.83%
(3) JFK-IST - 90.36%
(4) SFO-IST - 89.86%
(5) LAX-IST - 89.68%
(6) IAH-IST - 86.81%
(7) BOS-IST - 86.70%
(8) MIA-IST - 84.31%
(9) ATL-IST - 75.42%

Avg for year (all routes) - inbound 88.52%, outbound 88.31%, combined 88.42%
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B1168
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:35 am

jfk777 wrote:
South Africa from Miami of JFK makes sense, ORD or DFW are too far west for such a flight.

Japan requires some attention, AA should NOT be proud of itself for having Asia flights only from LAX and DFW. Tokyo needs connections from AA east coast hubs, MIA included. AA needs a third and fourth gateway with similar Asia schedules to DFW & LAX. Buying JetBlue for JFK and BOS wouldn't be the worst idea to consider.


MIA seems to be a major niche. For to me, LAS seems to be for tourism and isn’t the main game of building another gateway to Asia. Somehow we allowed to have 0 E.Asia service southeast of the line of ATL-IAD. Filling that niche seems quite reasonable.
The problem is,AA can’t afford to lose ORD. If so, the entire Northern US excluding the NE corridor will be lost.
Last edited by B1168 on Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:35 am

AUS?

The Californiaizatin of Texas is happening before our eyes!

Just a matter of time before AUS to AKL/BJS/BNE/CTU/HKG/HND/ICN/KIX/MEL/MNL/NGO/NRT/PVG/SIN/SYD/TPE are required! And that’s just Asia!

Throw in BOG/BSB/GIG/GRU/GYE/LIM/SCL/UIO.

Finally:
AMS/ARN/ATH/BRU/BUD/CDG/CPH/DME/DUS/EDI/FCO/HEL/LIS/MAD/MAN/MUC/MXP/OSL/PRG/TXL/WAW/ZRH.

México and Central America open many possibilities!
 
Fargo
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:37 am

nomorerjs wrote:
AUS?

The Californiaizatin of Texas is happening before our eyes!

Just a matter of time before AUS to AKL/BJS/BNE/CTU/HKG/HND/ICN/KIX/MEL/MNL/NGO/NRT/PVG/SIN/SYD/TPE are required! And that’s just Asia!

Throw in BOG/BSB/GIG/GRU/GYE/LIM/SCL/UIO.

Finally:
AMS/ARN/ATH/BRU/BUD/CDG/CPH/DME/DUS/EDI/FCO/HEL/LIS/MAD/MAN/MUC/MXP/OSL/PRG/TXL/WAW/ZRH.

México and Central America open many possibilities!


This was a necessary post why?
 
B1168
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:46 am

nomorerjs wrote:
AUS?

The Californiaizatin of Texas is happening before our eyes!

Just a matter of time before AUS to AKL/BJS/BNE/CTU/HKG/HND/ICN/KIX/MEL/MNL/NGO/NRT/PVG/SIN/SYD/TPE are required! And that’s just Asia!

Throw in BOG/BSB/GIG/GRU/GYE/LIM/SCL/UIO.

Finally:
AMS/ARN/ATH/BRU/BUD/CDG/CPH/DME/DUS/EDI/FCO/HEL/LIS/MAD/MAN/MUC/MXP/OSL/PRG/TXL/WAW/ZRH.

México and Central America open many possibilities!


I appreciate your effort of listing cities, but I am pretty sure that none of them (exc. AMS/CDG/HEL/MAD) will happen anytime reasonable.
If a route was not applicable to both DFW and IAH, you might want to think twice.
Though I do appreciate your (implicit) point that DL should make AUS a hub and make Texas the finest cinema on aviation industry in the entire world.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:51 am

runway23 wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
Could they make it to JNB? Plenty of connection opportunities on BA Comair from there to the rest of South Africa plus Harare, Windhoek etc


The problem with JNB is the airport is elevated at 5000+ft above Sea Level. The 787 could reach JNB nonstop from the United States, I don't think that would be a problem, the main concern is taking off out of JNB with a full load of pax and fuel. On the way back from JNB they would have to plan a fuel stop somewhere since the airplane wouldn't be able to take off at its MTOW given the hot and high conditions.


A MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA could make sense.


This makes the most sense. However, as most carriers leave late at night from JNB, would AA really need to make the CPT fuel stop? They would have the nights that it doesn’t cool down a lot in their summer at JNB, although CPT is at sea level. He thinks out loud.

AA would need to keep the plane moving once it arrives from MIA, unless AA uses CPT as a fuel only stop, with no passenger enplanements. Otherwise a couple hours at each stop, can AA make that work & have the time to hit a big connecting bank in Miami both ways?
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atx11
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:42 am

rajincajun01 wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.


While all true, AUS doesn’t have the O&D traffic or connection network to support such a route yet. RDU will get India before AUS. Raleigh’s tech industry is more developed and a significant Indian population.


Sorry this made me lol. As someone who has lived in both places, Austin is lightyears beyond Raleigh in the tech scene. Not sure if you've been to Austin in the last decade, but it's worth a look.

As for India flights - several local guys (DFW) have said DFW would be the likely choice, but PHL does make sense for East Coast connections. Should be interesting to watch.
 
acentauri
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:46 am

VS4ever wrote:
Yields, who knows.
(QR PHL) Loads for 2018 (combined direction), from T-100 data, this is the raw data not modified for any errors in seat counts, although they have been getting better at reporting them, so use this data at your own risk.
1 89.58%
2 65.73%
3 79.57%
4 69.63%
5 70.47%
6 79.00%
7 90.27%
8 84.75%
Average: 78.84%, Inbound 79.99%, outbound 77.7%
........................

The Yields on these PHL numbers don't include cargo, particularly high yielding pharmaceuticals, which add to the support of this flight. Even average passenger loads of 80% on a 5900 nm flight is nothing to dismiss as anything but good, particularly when there's only a of 6% difference between PHL and #1 (ORD). This thread is really FULL of misinformation/assumptions, not including the referenced post., but then again a-net wouldn't be a-net without a-nuts :sarcastic: .

PHL-DEL happening.

A long time ago, there was a PHL-MIA-JNB thru flight, with a change of :airplane: in MIA. The PHL-MIA portion was on AA. The flight was actually a partnership between AA and SA and coded as an SA flight number. At the time, AA had minimal presence at PHL. So there must have been some support for this route with projected passenger numbers. Someone here probably remembers this more accurately. Any new AA JNB/CPT flights would likely be scheduled using the most economical solution (not JFK) - either MIA, or PHL (same distance), with connecting support. DFW is almost 1000 nm further from JNB and offers little incentive, from a connecting standpoint, to offset that.
 
bhxalex
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:41 am

Perhaps PHL-BLR?

DEL & BOM are having a race to the bottom with many 1 stop connections. As the service will rely heavily on connections anyway regardless of Indian city, why not carve a niche and operate to BLR?

A few one stops available there from PHL already yes, and the market is smaller, but they would be the only US airline in BLR and could capture traffic from a lot of US cities where 2 stop connections are needed.

Lots of pharma in both PHL and BLR so filling the premium cabin and cargo holds might not be so difficult.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:55 am

atx11 wrote:
rajincajun01 wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.


While all true, AUS doesn’t have the O&D traffic or connection network to support such a route yet. RDU will get India before AUS. Raleigh’s tech industry is more developed and a significant Indian population.


Sorry this made me lol. As someone who has lived in both places, Austin is lightyears beyond Raleigh in the tech scene. Not sure if you've been to Austin in the last decade, but it's worth a look.


Considering I’ve worked at both airports I know the demographics VERY well. It’s not just tech in Raleigh that would make it more successful than AUS. Look up Raleigh’s pharma industry. Look up the PhDs per capita of Durham. List all the major universities. Look up the population of Indians Do this and get back to me.
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rajincajun01
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:35 am

Fargo wrote:
rajincajun01 wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.


While all true, AUS doesn’t have the O&D traffic or connection network to support such a route yet. RDU will get India before AUS. Raleigh’s tech industry is more developed and a significant Indian population.


Neither will get Indian service anytime soon, but AUS would get it before RDU as it is a bigger market and has higher O&D


Neither will get the route within five years but you’re wrong about AUS over RDU.

Show the O&D numbers to India. Also consider how AUS has to contend with DFW and IAH. That automatically eliminates AA and UA. Air India has stated it wants Dallas or Houston. RDU has more international traffic than AUS, and significantly more traffic to Europe.

Also, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill metro is 2.03 million. Austin metro is also just over 2 million. Market size is nearly identical.
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9w748capt
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:56 am

I have a hard time believing that either DL or AA will be able to re-enter India. The Indian side is way too fragmented. What is Vasu thinking with DFW-South India? Surely he understands that a passenger heading to MAA will have zero interest in a DFW-BLR flight. And vice versa. UA's EWR flights benefit from being in NYC which I imagine is still the largest market.
 
Swadian
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:00 am

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I know this sounds very 1990's, but what if AA did a same plane 789 service from DFW-PHL-DEL, where the stop in PHL was less than 90 minutes. It might be seen as easier/more convenient than a person flying DFW-DXB-DEL with a possibly long wait in DXB. But though flights seem to have fallen by the wayside in our present era. Plus, would current regulations allow through passengers to stay on board in PHL? or would they have to disembark and re-screen?
Similarly, could AA get rights to fly JNB-GRU, and then use their multiple flights to US gateways into GRU to operate something of a scissor hub to fan JNB traffic out to MIA/DFW/JFK, etc?


AA has no reason to do that for a 789 can handle DFW-DEL and MIA can connect everyone from JNB without a double-connect through GRU. The wonders of hub-and-spoke.
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
Swadian
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:03 am

runway23 wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
Could they make it to JNB? Plenty of connection opportunities on BA Comair from there to the rest of South Africa plus Harare, Windhoek etc


The problem with JNB is the airport is elevated at 5000+ft above Sea Level. The 787 could reach JNB nonstop from the United States, I don't think that would be a problem, the main concern is taking off out of JNB with a full load of pax and fuel. On the way back from JNB they would have to plan a fuel stop somewhere since the airplane wouldn't be able to take off at its MTOW given the hot and high conditions.


A MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA could make sense.


Very likely possible with 789. They may try India from PHL, DFW, or JFK, and CMN from PHL. Not sure why they'd do India from MIA.
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
Swadian
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:03 am

D L X wrote:
Why does CLT-LOS or CLT-ACC not make sense if AA is heading to Africa?


Because MIA, JFK, or even PHL is a better connection point for Africa than CLT.
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
C010T3
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:14 am

AA should do another round of domestic expansion at PHL before going after such adventures in India.
 
emuwarveteran
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:26 am

The only viable airports I could see AA opening routes to India and Africa from right now are PHL, JFK and MIA as someone above me said. CLT makes no sense and would probably have almost no demand.
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:53 am

anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.

The "rah rah AUS" is getting almost comical.... AUS hasn't even shown that it can support two yearround flights to Europe yet, and now you're talking 16hr+ flights to south Asia? Seriously? :lol:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Eirules
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:23 am

I wonder could they pick up a 5th freedom route via a European hub to JNB. DUB were handing them out like candy to ET on the ADD-DUB-LAX route. Maybe DFW-DUB-JNB?
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Fargo
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:13 am

rajincajun01 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
rajincajun01 wrote:

While all true, AUS doesn’t have the O&D traffic or connection network to support such a route yet. RDU will get India before AUS. Raleigh’s tech industry is more developed and a significant Indian population.


Neither will get Indian service anytime soon, but AUS would get it before RDU as it is a bigger market and has higher O&D


Neither will get the route within five years but you’re wrong about AUS over RDU.

Show the O&D numbers to India. Also consider how AUS has to contend with DFW and IAH. That automatically eliminates AA and UA. Air India has stated it wants Dallas or Houston. RDU has more international traffic than AUS, and significantly more traffic to Europe.

Also, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill metro is 2.03 million. Austin metro is also just over 2 million. Market size is nearly identical.


AUS is closer to 2.2 million, is growing faster, and has a significantly larger catchment area. It’s not in a CSA, but if you were to take the 13 county region that makes up both Austin and San Antonio (which AUS serves to a certain extent as well), we are talking about a region of almost 5 million people, and that is just as of today. Texas is projected to double in population by the 2040-2050 timeframe and a lot of that growth will happen in the Austin-San Antonio corridor.

But like I said, neither will be getting India flights anytime soon or for the foreseeable future. If anyone gets a flight, it will be DFW.
 
Fargo
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:15 am

LAX772LR wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.

The "rah rah AUS" is getting almost comical.... AUS hasn't even shown that it can support two yearround flights to Europe yet, and now you're talking 16hr+ flights to south Asia? Seriously? :lol:


What “rah rah”? Sure, the whole AUS DL focus city thread got out of hand, but lately I haven’t seen much. AUS won’t be getting a flight to India, nothing to see here.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:21 am

Fargo wrote:
What “rah rah”? . . . but lately I haven’t seen much.

That'd be you.

It's not quite NW-retire-DC9s, 757-retired-too-early, or "DTW!" territory (yet), but the ridiculous fanboyism for that medium-sized nonhub airport somehow gaining nonstop service to the corners of the earth in the near-term, has passed the point of ridiculousness in its frequency on this site, as I've seen.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Fargo
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:05 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Fargo wrote:
What “rah rah”? . . . but lately I haven’t seen much.

That'd be you.

It's not quite NW-retire-DC9s, 757-retired-too-early, or "DTW!" territory (yet), but the ridiculous fanboyism for that medium-sized nonhub airport somehow gaining nonstop service to the corners of the earth in the near-term, has passed the point of ridiculousness in its frequency on this site, as I've seen.


Can you cite some recent examples? Maybe I’m just reading the wrong threads.
 
B1168
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:25 pm

Eirules wrote:
I wonder could they pick up a 5th freedom route via a European hub to JNB. DUB were handing them out like candy to ET on the ADD-DUB-LAX route. Maybe DFW-DUB-JNB?


Worst idea ever. You might want to use gcmap.com to check for backtracking before saying so.
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UpNAWAy
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:17 pm

winginit wrote:
I'll believe it when I see it. I know that AA's Network team is under different leadership now but do we remember just a few years ago when AA was making it sound like MIA-JNB was imminent the second they had a plane that could fly it?



That was due to canceling the A350 order IMHO.
 
mfe777
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:50 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Fargo wrote:
What “rah rah”? . . . but lately I haven’t seen much.

That'd be you.

It's not quite NW-retire-DC9s, 757-retired-too-early, or "DTW!" territory (yet), but the ridiculous fanboyism for that medium-sized nonhub airport somehow gaining nonstop service to the corners of the earth in the near-term, has passed the point of ridiculousness in its frequency on this site, as I've seen.


The truth. My favorite I've seen so far was the person who said Vietnam Airlines should acquire A380s to fly Saigon-Austin nonstop. So comical.

AUS to India, especially on AA, will not happen. AA on DFW and/or PHL to India makes sense. I am curious to see what Africa spots they are considering. CMN to plug into Royal Air Maroc's network seems the likeliest.
 
BigGSFO
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:33 pm

My predictions:
PHL-India (nonstop to DEL) and/or DFW-India
MIA-South Africa (triangle MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA)

Not that this would be their motivation for doing so, but DFW-Africa (perhaps West Africa) would put DFW in the "Nonstop to all inhabited continents" club (and let's not split hairs about the inhabitants of Antarctica).
 
binayak
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:49 pm

AA can in my opinion try PHL-DEL or an ORD-BOM
PHL is required as one stop connections are low for PHL - India .
ORD-BOM is also a highly under served route with strong O&D .

DFW / LAX India ,although an option ,is too long a route and yields will suffer .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
Fargo
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:04 pm

mfe777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Fargo wrote:
What “rah rah”? . . . but lately I haven’t seen much.

That'd be you.

It's not quite NW-retire-DC9s, 757-retired-too-early, or "DTW!" territory (yet), but the ridiculous fanboyism for that medium-sized nonhub airport somehow gaining nonstop service to the corners of the earth in the near-term, has passed the point of ridiculousness in its frequency on this site, as I've seen.


The truth. My favorite I've seen so far was the person who said Vietnam Airlines should acquire A380s to fly Saigon-Austin nonstop. So comical.

AUS to India, especially on AA, will not happen. AA on DFW and/or PHL to India makes sense. I am curious to see what Africa spots they are considering. CMN to plug into Royal Air Maroc's network seems the likeliest.


I’m pretty sure that user was joking. The reasonable AUS fans know that is absurd. At the max, on top of BA/LH, AUS will probably get DL to AMS or CDG and (down the road) a TPAC flight, but that’s it.

I agree about DFW, it should get India service either on AA or AI.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:13 pm

Fargo wrote:
rajincajun01 wrote:
Fargo wrote:

Neither will get Indian service anytime soon, but AUS would get it before RDU as it is a bigger market and has higher O&D


Neither will get the route within five years but you’re wrong about AUS over RDU.

Show the O&D numbers to India. Also consider how AUS has to contend with DFW and IAH. That automatically eliminates AA and UA. Air India has stated it wants Dallas or Houston. RDU has more international traffic than AUS, and significantly more traffic to Europe.

Also, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill metro is 2.03 million. Austin metro is also just over 2 million. Market size is nearly identical.


AUS is closer to 2.2 million, is growing faster, and has a significantly larger catchment area. It’s not in a CSA, but if you were to take the 13 county region that makes up both Austin and San Antonio (which AUS serves to a certain extent as well), we are talking about a region of almost 5 million people, and that is just as of today. Texas is projected to double in population by the 2040-2050 timeframe and a lot of that growth will happen in the Austin-San Antonio corridor.

But like I said, neither will be getting India flights anytime soon or for the foreseeable future. If anyone gets a flight, it will be DFW.


Jesus what a desperate argument that was. All of your arguement has hardly anything to do with an India flight.

You realize “closer to 2.2” is still just over 2.03, right? In Raleigh-Durham there are approximately 30,000 who identify as Indian. In Austin that number is 18,000. Again, go and look at PDEW data too.
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YouGeeElWhy
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:14 pm

It seems like not many people RTFA. Below is the exact quote from Raja.
If it returned, Raja said, American could use smaller aircraft with better economics and a superior onboard product. It would also seek improved flight times, so customers could connect to other flights. American also probably would not fly from Chicago, instead using a domestic hub where it can facilitate better connections, such as Philadelphia
 
Brandon757
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:37 pm

AA will start DFW to India if one thing happens first, and that is if AI ever announces the service first.
 
winginit
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:55 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
winginit wrote:
I'll believe it when I see it. I know that AA's Network team is under different leadership now but do we remember just a few years ago when AA was making it sound like MIA-JNB was imminent the second they had a plane that could fly it?



That was due to canceling the A350 order IMHO.


I had thought AA were supposedly right on the cusp of ordering used 77L's to operate the route per a slew of posts like this one.

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