evanb
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:59 pm

Eirules wrote:
Could they make it to JNB? Plenty of connection opportunities on BA Comair from there to the rest of South Africa plus Harare, Windhoek etc


I think this is not as easy as first glance might suggest. Comair only fly to ten destinations from JNB and two of them, GRJ and ELS are exclusive to Kulula, not BA. But even then, several (HRE, WDH, VFA, LVI and MRU) are at low frequency, once daily or less. This means that if AA want to connect to/from these, they'll need the aircraft to sit on the ground for about 12 hours at JNB. This will be raise their costs considerably when compared to DL who have an immediate turnaround. Given the already high costs, this route will have to be made on the high yield O&D. Anything they get in the way of connections will be the cream.
 
SDFguy
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:23 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.

The "rah rah AUS" is getting almost comical.... AUS hasn't even shown that it can support two yearround flights to Europe yet, and now you're talking 16hr+ flights to south Asia? Seriously? :lol:


Reminds me of the IND fanboys insisting that they were going to get a non-stop flight to Asia by the end of 2018. Anyone who questioned them would be berated as not knowing what they were talking about.

Nothing is more comical than seeing people think that ANA is going to fly to their airport because the airport put up a light blue display box.
 
hohd
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:29 pm

AA would try some thing safe like PHL- DEL, as DL is flying to BOM. Don't think they have the guts to try PHL-BLR especially for their first city to India. Some one like UA should try EWR-BLR (even 4 times a week) will probably succeed.
 
TSA125
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:43 pm

Does anyone else see ORD-BOM as the elephant in the room? AA could definitely take advantage of that easily with the 789. It's clear that 9W has no interest in Chicago either.
No not that TSA.
 
iyerhari
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:53 pm

TSA125 wrote:
Does anyone else see ORD-BOM as the elephant in the room? AA could definitely take advantage of that easily with the 789. It's clear that 9W has no interest in Chicago either.

9W financial situation is not very good. I do not see them receiving a Govt. bailout but they are going to rely on EY hopefully to bail them out.

AA PHL hub is a safe bet for them and they maybe hoping to depend on a large catchment area plus hopefully on connections to India. UA has a solid base from their EWR hub who travel to DEL and BOM. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The other interesting thing to see is who would AA partner in India for onward connections to several cities. UA benefits significantly from their AI codeshare. DL has a JV with 9W. I believe there is a lot to be worked out by AA.

IMO, India market is a very cost competitive market and there are good one stop connections in a good price to most Tier 1 and 2 cities.
Last edited by iyerhari on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
D L X
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:56 pm

Swadian wrote:
D L X wrote:
Why does CLT-LOS or CLT-ACC not make sense if AA is heading to Africa?


Because MIA, JFK, or even PHL is a better connection point for Africa than CLT.


WOW! That's excellent analysis. Thank you.

/sarcasm.

My thinking is that CLT is the cheapest hub AA operates. Since these flights would include a lot of VFR, and less premium travelers, perhaps CLT is a good fit. What do you think?
 
atx11
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:00 pm

rajincajun01 wrote:
atx11 wrote:
rajincajun01 wrote:

While all true, AUS doesn’t have the O&D traffic or connection network to support such a route yet. RDU will get India before AUS. Raleigh’s tech industry is more developed and a significant Indian population.


Sorry this made me lol. As someone who has lived in both places, Austin is lightyears beyond Raleigh in the tech scene. Not sure if you've been to Austin in the last decade, but it's worth a look.


Considering I’ve worked at both airports I know the demographics VERY well. It’s not just tech in Raleigh that would make it more successful than AUS. Look up Raleigh’s pharma industry. Look up the PhDs per capita of Durham. List all the major universities. Look up the population of Indians Do this and get back to me.


I'm still loling that you're making an argument for an India flight to originate in RDU. Raleigh has had the same CDG and LHR flights for 20+ years and has done jack squat in that time frame to expand to other Euro destinations. I can't even take this seriously.

You mentioned tech scene in your original post, and again, Austin is lightyears beyond Raleigh. Go pull stats for Facebook, Apple, Google, Indeed, Zynga, etc. If you want to pivot to Indian population and pharma, that's a separate convo. One that I couldn't care less about. Oh and PhDs have absolutely nothing to do with the tech industry, and have even less to do with an India flight originating in RDU lol. We can go on and on about metro pop, industries, etc. etc., and the bottom line is neither AUS nor RDU is getting a damn India flight.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:26 pm

D L X wrote:
Swadian wrote:
D L X wrote:
Why does CLT-LOS or CLT-ACC not make sense if AA is heading to Africa?


Because MIA, JFK, or even PHL is a better connection point for Africa than CLT.


WOW! That's excellent analysis. Thank you.

/sarcasm.

My thinking is that CLT is the cheapest hub AA operates. Since these flights would include a lot of VFR, and less premium travelers, perhaps CLT is a good fit. What do you think?


ULH flights (including a nonstop from pretty much anywhere in the U.S. to India) need a good chunk of high-yielding O&D traffic to be successful. That high yielding traffic is usually business travelers and/or a large diaspora that is willing to pay extra for a nonstop. I've never seen Charlotte mentioned even remotely close to the top of U.S. cities with large Indian populations, and I doubt the local business community would be able to support a nonstop to India.

A few questions and thoughts about the possibilities:
  • Do AA's 789s have the range to make DFW-DEL or LAX-DEL nonstop? UA flies their 789s on SFO-SIN, which is longer, but UA also has 30 fewer seats on their 789s... I think DFW or LAX to India would have a bigger local market than PHL-India, but the added distance might negate the benefits. PHL's definitely in a better location to facilitate connections.
  • I'm with others here that MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA seems like a good potential candidate for an Africa route.
  • I wonder if AA would look at a winter-seasonal JFK-CPT service? That's a break from the recent pattern of pulling back on international services from JFK, but they certainly have the slots available in the winter (and more slack in the 789 fleet), it's a route with no competition, and BA/Comair could provide connections at CPT to JNB, DUR, and PLZ. A problem for this route might be the lack of connections at JFK...
  • I could also see CMN being a somewhat low risk destination for a summer-seasonal Africa service. PHL would probably come first, and if that did well I could see them even considering ORD (it would be inline with their recent Mediterranean-centric adds at ORD like BCN, VCE, and ATH).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Fargo
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:40 pm

rajincajun01 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
rajincajun01 wrote:

Neither will get the route within five years but you’re wrong about AUS over RDU.

Show the O&D numbers to India. Also consider how AUS has to contend with DFW and IAH. That automatically eliminates AA and UA. Air India has stated it wants Dallas or Houston. RDU has more international traffic than AUS, and significantly more traffic to Europe.

Also, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill metro is 2.03 million. Austin metro is also just over 2 million. Market size is nearly identical.


AUS is closer to 2.2 million, is growing faster, and has a significantly larger catchment area. It’s not in a CSA, but if you were to take the 13 county region that makes up both Austin and San Antonio (which AUS serves to a certain extent as well), we are talking about a region of almost 5 million people, and that is just as of today. Texas is projected to double in population by the 2040-2050 timeframe and a lot of that growth will happen in the Austin-San Antonio corridor.

But like I said, neither will be getting India flights anytime soon or for the foreseeable future. If anyone gets a flight, it will be DFW.


Jesus what a desperate argument that was. All of your argument has hardly anything to do with an India flight.

You realize “closer to 2.2” is still just over 2.03, right? In Raleigh-Durham there are approximately 30,000 who identify as Indian. In Austin that number is 18,000. Again, go and look at PDEW data too.


As you well know, PDEW doesn't always tell the whole story. If international flights were based on PDEW alone, not many routes would be launched.

You do realize that Austin's MSA alone is almost as big as RDU's entire CSA right? So is that 30,000 vs 18,000 based on the MSA or CSA? Also, it has been well debunked that the population of a certain ethnic group in an area determines whether a flight can be successful.

atx11 wrote:
I'm still loling that you're making an argument for an India flight to originate in RDU. Raleigh has had the same CDG and LHR flights for 20+ years and has done jack squat in that time frame to expand to other Euro destinations. I can't even take this seriously.

You mentioned tech scene in your original post, and again, Austin is lightyears beyond Raleigh. Go pull stats for Facebook, Apple, Google, Indeed, Zynga, etc. If you want to pivot to Indian population and pharma, that's a separate convo. One that I couldn't care less about. Oh and PhDs have absolutely nothing to do with the tech industry, and have even less to do with an India flight originating in RDU lol. We can go on and on about metro pop, industries, etc. etc., and the bottom line is neither AUS nor RDU is getting a damn India flight.


Well, CDG was only launched back in 2016, but your overall point is spot on.
 
texdravid
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:38 am

dfw88 wrote:
With the large Indian population and fortress hub at DFW I would be shocked if an AA return to India didn't originate from DFW. It would be close-ish to the 789 range, but I think it would be doable.


Totally agree. The market is there.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:45 am

D L X wrote:
Swadian wrote:
D L X wrote:
Why does CLT-LOS or CLT-ACC not make sense if AA is heading to Africa?


Because MIA, JFK, or even PHL is a better connection point for Africa than CLT.


WOW! That's excellent analysis. Thank you.

/sarcasm.

My thinking is that CLT is the cheapest hub AA operates. Since these flights would include a lot of VFR, and less premium travelers, perhaps CLT is a good fit. What do you think?


No, that's not how airline route planning works.

There is zero local market and you can't stimulate traffic from Charlotte to Africa. It will never be flown from Charlotte.

Besides outside of Philadelphia-Morocco or Miami-South Africa, there's not much for AA to explore.
a.
 
D L X
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:06 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
D L X wrote:
Swadian wrote:

Because MIA, JFK, or even PHL is a better connection point for Africa than CLT.


WOW! That's excellent analysis. Thank you.

/sarcasm.

My thinking is that CLT is the cheapest hub AA operates. Since these flights would include a lot of VFR, and less premium travelers, perhaps CLT is a good fit. What do you think?


No, that's not how airline route planning works.

There is zero local market and you can't stimulate traffic from Charlotte to Africa. It will never be flown from Charlotte.

Besides outside of Philadelphia-Morocco or Miami-South Africa, there's not much for AA to explore.


Okay, where in the US do Africans want to go? From where in the US do Americans want to go to Africa?

Now, match that to the AA hubs. Which are they?
 
jfk777
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:42 pm

AA needs to stay out of India and let its alliance partners fly there, PHL is not Newark or JFK in O & D for such a long flight. The most viable city AA has a large presence for India is Chicago but its ORD hub is in declining health, now would not be the time for a new flight there. AA has better uses for 787-9 like linking PHL and CLT to Tokyo.

After 31 years of flying to Japan all AA has to show is DFW, LAX and three weekly ORD flights. DFW is not everything even though sometimes one would think it is to AA. Maybe LAX to Singapore is not so silly, prosperous countries at both ends.
 
OB1504
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:08 am

How did a thread about AA flying to India and/or Africa become an AUS vs RDU argument? Take it somewhere else, clearly any flights that AA may or may not launch will be from an existing hub.
 
TSA125
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:33 am

D L X wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
D L X wrote:

WOW! That's excellent analysis. Thank you.

/sarcasm.

My thinking is that CLT is the cheapest hub AA operates. Since these flights would include a lot of VFR, and less premium travelers, perhaps CLT is a good fit. What do you think?


No, that's not how airline route planning works.

There is zero local market and you can't stimulate traffic from Charlotte to Africa. It will never be flown from Charlotte.

Besides outside of Philadelphia-Morocco or Miami-South Africa, there's not much for AA to explore.


Okay, where in the US do Africans want to go? From where in the US do Americans want to go to Africa?

Now, match that to the AA hubs. Which are they?


IAH and IAD seemed like good matches for United (at least to ACC and LOS) considering the oil companies and diaspora in Houston and Washington, respectively. Perhaps United could use similar logic at least for DFW. I'm not sure how much of the oil market is in Dallas compared to Houston, but there's certainly more demand than CLT. (Also, those flights no longer exist. Which begs the question of whether that market has much demand as it is.)

The question remains about whether any of their East Coast hubs could service Africa.
No not that TSA.
 
VTORD
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:47 am

iyerhari wrote:
TSA125 wrote:
Does anyone else see ORD-BOM as the elephant in the room? AA could definitely take advantage of that easily with the 789. It's clear that 9W has no interest in Chicago either.

9W financial situation is not very good. I do not see them receiving a Govt. bailout but they are going to rely on EY hopefully to bail them out.

AA PHL hub is a safe bet for them and they maybe hoping to depend on a large catchment area plus hopefully on connections to India. UA has a solid base from their EWR hub who travel to DEL and BOM. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The other interesting thing to see is who would AA partner in India for onward connections to several cities. UA benefits significantly from their AI codeshare. DL has a JV with 9W. I believe there is a lot to be worked out by AA.

IMO, India market is a very cost competitive market and there are good one stop connections in a good price to most Tier 1 and 2 cities.


Vistara on the face of it seems to be a good bet for AA as a partner. They have recently tied up with BA and JL for code shares. Both are OW. Would it make sense for AA to consider DFW - DEL with a tie up with UK similar to what they inked with JL? They would have the advantage of the fortress hub at DFW and feeder partner at the India end. BOM would be tricky w.r.t slots and no partner at that end.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:36 am

mfe777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Fargo wrote:
What “rah rah”? . . . but lately I haven’t seen much.

That'd be you.

It's not quite NW-retire-DC9s, 757-retired-too-early, or "DTW!" territory (yet), but the ridiculous fanboyism for that medium-sized nonhub airport somehow gaining nonstop service to the corners of the earth in the near-term, has passed the point of ridiculousness in its frequency on this site, as I've seen.


The truth. My favorite I've seen so far was the person who said Vietnam Airlines should acquire A380s to fly Saigon-Austin nonstop. So comical.

AUS to India, especially on AA, will not happen. AA on DFW and/or PHL to India makes sense. I am curious to see what Africa spots they are considering. CMN to plug into Royal Air Maroc's network seems the likeliest.


You know that was a joke, right? I remember the thread. He was being satirical. If you thought the poster was seriously suggesting VN should fly an A380 from AUS-SGN, you need to understand that kind of sarcasm.

Back to the thread. I’m curious why AA lost money ORD-DEL. I flew that round trip one as part of a trip to Nepal. It was full both ways. I know the adigage about full flight don’t guarantee profitability but it seemed like the load factors were good.
 
SDFguy
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:27 am

jfk777 wrote:
AA needs to stay out of India and let its alliance partners fly there, PHL is not Newark or JFK in O & D for such a long flight. The most viable city AA has a large presence for India is Chicago but its ORD hub is in declining health, now would not be the time for a new flight there. AA has better uses for 787-9 like linking PHL and CLT to Tokyo.

After 31 years of flying to Japan all AA has to show is DFW, LAX and three weekly ORD flights. DFW is not everything even though sometimes one would think it is to AA. Maybe LAX to Singapore is not so silly, prosperous countries at both ends.



LOL, CLT to TYO is not happening. Why does every fanboy think their airport needs and can support a flight to TYO?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:28 am

BoeingGuy wrote:

Back to the thread. I’m curious why AA lost money ORD-DEL. I flew that round trip one as part of a trip to Nepal. It was full both ways. I know the adigage about full flight don’t guarantee profitability but it seemed like the load factors were good.


Per a quote from AA spokesperson:
"The historical financial performance of the route and its future outlook given the global economic climate has resulted in our decision to cancel the New Delhi (DEL) – Chicago (ORD) service.

Another source estimated AA was losing $40mil annually on the route.

I would say the bigger issues were:
a) AA had just entered BK a few months prior and needed to reduce expenses and get its cost under control fast.
b) AA 772s were too premium heavy,
c) India not exactly known for good yields
d) Tons of competition to India be it via AI's own ORD service or the dozens of 1-stop options via Europe or ME.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
mfe777
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:44 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
That'd be you.

It's not quite NW-retire-DC9s, 757-retired-too-early, or "DTW!" territory (yet), but the ridiculous fanboyism for that medium-sized nonhub airport somehow gaining nonstop service to the corners of the earth in the near-term, has passed the point of ridiculousness in its frequency on this site, as I've seen.


The truth. My favorite I've seen so far was the person who said Vietnam Airlines should acquire A380s to fly Saigon-Austin nonstop. So comical.

AUS to India, especially on AA, will not happen. AA on DFW and/or PHL to India makes sense. I am curious to see what Africa spots they are considering. CMN to plug into Royal Air Maroc's network seems the likeliest.


You know that was a joke, right? I remember the thread. He was being satirical. If you thought the poster was seriously suggesting VN should fly an A380 from AUS-SGN, you need to understand that kind of sarcasm.

Back to the thread. I’m curious why AA lost money ORD-DEL. I flew that round trip one as part of a trip to Nepal. It was full both ways. I know the adigage about full flight don’t guarantee profitability but it seemed like the load factors were good.


No, from the context of the poster's other posts he seemed serious. There have been other just as ridiculous posts, including in this thread, such as Austin to India flights. Multiple people have pointed out the ridiculousness of some of the Austin related posts.

I feel more comfortable having AA serve DFW-India rather than Air India for several reasons. I would like to see AI get their house in order before serving DFW. Also, AA on Dallas-India routes is less likely to have a negative impact on EK and QR at DFW, since AA can fill some seats with connecting traffic whereas Air India would cannibalize Dallas O&D from the gulf carriers. AA on the DFW-India routes instead of Air India might actually preserve some of the foreign carrier diversity.
Last edited by mfe777 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
binayak
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:48 am

anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region


And what about the ones with families there? Flying to JFK/ EWR and then driving might not be an option for all . The diaspora is good enough to sustain a flight . Plus the business IT traffic is there enough to sustain a 787 to India .
There are few options for one stop routing in PHL-India too.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
jfk777
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:04 pm

SDFguy wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
AA needs to stay out of India and let its alliance partners fly there, PHL is not Newark or JFK in O & D for such a long flight. The most viable city AA has a large presence for India is Chicago but its ORD hub is in declining health, now would not be the time for a new flight there. AA has better uses for 787-9 like linking PHL and CLT to Tokyo.

After 31 years of flying to Japan all AA has to show is DFW, LAX and three weekly ORD flights. DFW is not everything even though sometimes one would think it is to AA. Maybe LAX to Singapore is not so silly, prosperous countries at both ends.



LOL, CLT to TYO is not happening. Why does every fanboy think their airport needs and can support a flight to TYO?


Why ? The only city is the South with Tokyo is Atlanta. All the cities north of Charlotte have Tokyo flights including Washington, JFK, Newark and Boston. So do Houston and DFW, so why should CLT " NOT" have flights to Asia ? CLT is a large hub with plenty of service to Europe including such dogs as Rome and formally had flights to Brazil before AA moved to their MIA hub. What is the case for AA NOT to fly to Tokyo ?
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:29 pm

winginit wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
winginit wrote:
I'll believe it when I see it. I know that AA's Network team is under different leadership now but do we remember just a few years ago when AA was making it sound like MIA-JNB was imminent the second they had a plane that could fly it?



That was due to canceling the A350 order IMHO.


I had thought AA were supposedly right on the cusp of ordering used 77L's to operate the route per a slew of posts like this one.

First of all you don’t order used planes, you either buy them from the previous owner or lease them from a lessor.

Two AA isn’t looking for used 773s, you just don’t pull up to the used plane lot and buy one.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:37 pm

According to 2016 estimates by the Census Bureau, based on its American Community Survey, nearly 17,000 foreign-born Indians are among the largest group of immigrants in Mecklenburg County. People born in India are 11.3 percent of the total foreign-born population of 148,000, second only to those born in Mexico, who make up 18 percent of the total foreign-born population. Nearly 22,000 people in Mecklenburg identify their race as Indian, according to the census, representing 40.5 percent of nearly 54,000 who identify as Asian.

Iredell county (Mooresville) which is about 30 miles from CLT has a large Indian population due to Lowe’s Corporate moving their IT department which is staffed by mostly Indians.

Also out in Cary, NC which is near Raleigh has a large Indian population due to SAS Corporation.

But imo I don’t think CLT or RDU can support a flight to India.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:13 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
According to 2016 estimates by the Census Bureau, based on its American Community Survey, nearly 17,000 foreign-born Indians are among the largest group of immigrants in Mecklenburg County. People born in India are 11.3 percent of the total foreign-born population of 148,000, second only to those born in Mexico, who make up 18 percent of the total foreign-born population. Nearly 22,000 people in Mecklenburg identify their race as Indian, according to the census, representing 40.5 percent of nearly 54,000 who identify as Asian.


This is a perfect - and I mean perfect - example of the lousy analysis that makes its way to a.net.

It's 11.3% of a trivially small number. (Look at foreign-born populations of LA, BA Area, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, or NYC.) As a city (not the MSA) Charlotte doesn't even count in the top 25 in foreign population. CLT isn't in the top 30 U.S. airports in domestic O&D traffic. Rank - larger than the Mexican population in Mecklenburg County - isn't relevant in any way. Planes need to be filled with large numbers of passengers paying good fares, not the three Indians ahead of the two Mexicans ahead of the single Cuban.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:18 pm

I pointed facts, why the attack? I even stated CLT nor RDU couldn’t support a flight. I only worked for US for 20 years, 17 of those in CLT, where I still reside.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:22 pm

Without having read the whole thread, I think that many people here are overlooking one thing: the joint venture between American Airlines and IAG. Specially the flights to India overfly Europe where they already got a partner. As a bonus, British Airways has got a very large presence in India and quite some in Africa as well.

I read somewhere someone had suggested Charlotte to India. Whilst a direct flight is not feasible, a one-stop is easy and already there. That one stop is Heathrow.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:26 pm

I'm probably grasping at straws here, but perhaps AA could utilize JFK as a focus for India/Africa and leave PHL as the East Coast-Europe hub?

OK, back to reality.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
ScrantonUSC
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:08 pm

The CLT fanboys mistakenly equate the traffic at the airport (due to American's hub), as being an indicator to support international flights. They don't realize they punch well below their weight for O&D numbers and revenue for their population numbers.
 
dfdubflyer
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:25 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
I'm probably grasping at straws here, but perhaps AA could utilize JFK as a focus for India/Africa and leave PHL as the East Coast-Europe hub?

OK, back to reality.


That’s an interesting idea. I saw the power of an Africa-focused hub last week going to Cameroon for work via Brussels. NYC has the best O&D and would give that hub a real purpose.
 
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stl07
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:39 pm

BA has cut a BOM flight...
Interesting
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stl07
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:41 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.

The "rah rah AUS" is getting almost comical.... AUS hasn't even shown that it can support two yearround flights to Europe yet, and now you're talking 16hr+ flights to south Asia? Seriously? :lol:

They make the DTW people look rational
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Varsity1
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:49 pm

Sounds like it will be PHL.
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osupoke07
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:54 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
winginit wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:


That was due to canceling the A350 order IMHO.


I had thought AA were supposedly right on the cusp of ordering used 77L's to operate the route per a slew of posts like this one.

First of all you don’t order used planes, you either buy them from the previous owner or lease them from a lessor.

Two AA isn’t looking for used 773s, you just don’t pull up to the used plane lot and buy one.


I believe at the time this discussion was occurring, there were a set of 3-6 772-LR (not 773) that were about to come onto the market. I can't remember who the original carrier was, but there was basis for the rumor that AA was going to buy these frames and start JNB.
MD82, MD83, MD88, B717, B732, B733, B735, B737, B738, B739, B752, B763, B77W, CR2, CR7, CR9, A320, A321
 
BA777FO
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:25 pm

stl07 wrote:
BA has cut a BOM flight...
Interesting


No it hasn't. BA has been and remains double daily to BOM.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:33 pm

osupoke07 wrote:
I can't remember who the original carrier was

EY
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
D L X
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:48 pm

ScrantonUSC wrote:
The CLT fanboys mistakenly equate the traffic at the airport (due to American's hub), as being an indicator to support international flights.



OR, we (rightly, I think) believe that none of the present AA hubs are a good fit for this kind of flying in the traditional reasoning. That means if AA is serious, it's thinking outside the box.

But go ahead, a.net, stay in your box. I'd prefer to explore what kinds of outside the box thinking may stand a shot.

I have no idea about India, so I've stayed silent on it. But as for Africa (which is a big big place with lots of destinations), I do know a little. Where are the African populations in the US? unfortunately for AA, they're at United and Delta's hubs, not AA's. So, if AA is going to fly the routes (again, not knowing which African cities they're even talking about), deeper analysis than what you're seeing on this thread is necessary. I DO NOT KNOW HOW THAT ANALYSIS GOES, but don't shoot me for asking.


ScrantonUSC wrote:
They don't realize they punch well below their weight for O&D numbers and revenue for their population numbers.


Hmm. Little O/D, yet AA's most profitable hub. Sounds like they're doing it all wrong, for sure! MAYBE it's not all about O/D after all?
 
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stl07
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:39 pm

BA777FO wrote:
stl07 wrote:
BA has cut a BOM flight...
Interesting


No it hasn't. BA has been and remains double daily to BOM.

Look in june for BOM-LHR

But it came back in July now that I look again
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OneAA
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:55 pm

jfk777 wrote:
SDFguy wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
AA needs to stay out of India and let its alliance partners fly there, PHL is not Newark or JFK in O & D for such a long flight. The most viable city AA has a large presence for India is Chicago but its ORD hub is in declining health, now would not be the time for a new flight there. AA has better uses for 787-9 like linking PHL and CLT to Tokyo.

After 31 years of flying to Japan all AA has to show is DFW, LAX and three weekly ORD flights. DFW is not everything even though sometimes one would think it is to AA. Maybe LAX to Singapore is not so silly, prosperous countries at both ends.



LOL, CLT to TYO is not happening. Why does every fanboy think their airport needs and can support a flight to TYO?


Why ? The only city is the South with Tokyo is Atlanta. All the cities north of Charlotte have Tokyo flights including Washington, JFK, Newark and Boston. So do Houston and DFW, so why should CLT " NOT" have flights to Asia ? CLT is a large hub with plenty of service to Europe including such dogs as Rome and formally had flights to Brazil before AA moved to their MIA hub. What is the case for AA NOT to fly to Tokyo ?

But what IS the case for AA to fly to Tokyo from CLT? There is no need. The DFW mega hub has multiple daily to Tokyo from both AA and Japan Airlines. No need for CLT flights. CLT fanboys don’t seem to understand where they fit in AA’s system. They are a large hub that mainly serves domestic traffic, with a few European flights and leisure Caribbean flights. CLT’s O&D is very small. CLT is simply not the center of AA’s network the way DFW is. DFW is a center both domestic and international. Philly, Miami and LA all round out the international network much better than CLT. Again, why is CLT to Tokyo needed or warranted?
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:57 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

I'm probably grasping at straws here, but perhaps AA could utilize JFK as a focus for India/Africa and leave PHL as the East Coast-Europe hub?

OK, back to reality.


That’s an interesting idea. I saw the power of an Africa-focused hub last week going to Cameroon for work via Brussels. NYC has the best O&D and would give that hub a real purpose.


My thoughts exactly. Plus the feed that JFK still has on AA is where more of the US traffic would originate. Plus we're talking what? Maybe 4-5 more flights a day ex-JFK.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
nomorerjs
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:14 am

If CLT is that important to AA to Asia, than why didn’t AA apply for CLT-HND?

There is a reason AA doesn’t fly and won’t fly CLT to Asia: it would lose more money than ORD was loosing. LAX is bleeding too, but less than ORD.

People here “want” routes that are not needed. Face it, AUS, CLT, and RDU are not getting flights to India or Africa. The non application to HND, the business airport of Tokyo, says enough.

PHL probably isn’t either for the same reason.

Africa makes sense from JFK or MIA.

India makes sense from JFK. Possibly DFW and ORD with the 789, but we know ORD is out (too much competition and toilet yields).
 
strfyr51
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:26 am

dfw88 wrote:
With the large Indian population and fortress hub at DFW I would be shocked if an AA return to India didn't originate from DFW. It would be close-ish to the 789 range, but I think it would be doable.

from DFW going east they probably could make it to India then come back going east to take advantage of the prevailing westerlies on their Tail the entire flight back to DFW or PHL if they chose to.
 
B1168
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:44 am

strfyr51 wrote:
dfw88 wrote:
With the large Indian population and fortress hub at DFW I would be shocked if an AA return to India didn't originate from DFW. It would be close-ish to the 789 range, but I think it would be doable.

from DFW going east they probably could make it to India then come back going east to take advantage of the prevailing westerlies on their Tail the entire flight back to DFW or PHL if they chose to.


The DFW-DEL direct route brings us nearly over the Arctic point. Excluding the detour due to the Hindu Kush mountains, it seems quite reasonable that the outbound flight goes mostly North with some eastbound vector at DFW, probably some headings like 020.
Going eastbound on the inbound leg sound somewhat unrealistic. Frequently AI’s DEL-SFO routes south of the Himalayas, passing Bangladesh, China and Japan before joining the horde of transpacific flights. This routing usually takes them 14.5 hours. Extending that to DFW will result in 2 additional hours in air at best, and that is 16.5 hours. Reference? UA100/1 IAH-SYD taking up to 17.5 hours. That doesn’t sound too nice to me. Hopefully they can get some flight path instruments built North of DEL so that the flight can directly route the polar way.
 
rbavfan
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:43 am

YoungDon wrote:
I would think Africa would make the most sense from Miami, not PHL or DFW.

India from PHL is interesting - I'm sure they have the numbers if they want to try this. I would think DFW would be a better option, though its a bit of a longer flight.


DFW-DEL is close to the range limits. Flight back would have some limits. Also VFR heavy.
 
winginit
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:20 am

osupoke07 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
winginit wrote:

I had thought AA were supposedly right on the cusp of ordering used 77L's to operate the route per a slew of posts like this one.

First of all you don’t order used planes, you either buy them from the previous owner or lease them from a lessor.

Two AA isn’t looking for used 773s, you just don’t pull up to the used plane lot and buy one.


I believe at the time this discussion was occurring, there were a set of 3-6 772-LR (not 773) that were about to come onto the market. I can't remember who the original carrier was, but there was basis for the rumor that AA was going to buy these frames and start JNB.


This is correct, and they were I believe Air India.
 
NYKiwi
Posts: 61
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:41 am

Would MIA to JNB or CPT be so stupid for AA. I remember SAA use to fly to FLL for cruiae traffic....maybe a 788 is ideal would be shorter than JFK and have good hub to support.

I do know AA send alot of there Africa traffic via BA and LHR so there must be stats and numbers
 
D L X
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:22 am

Can someone explain the MIA-Africa market for me?
 
BA777FO
Posts: 348
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:50 am

stl07 wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
stl07 wrote:
BA has cut a BOM flight...
Interesting


No it hasn't. BA has been and remains double daily to BOM.

Look in june for BOM-LHR

But it came back in July now that I look again


It's a temporary reduction due lack of aircraft because of the 787 engine issues. Delhi also drops a flight here and there in April. Can't ever see BA reducing frequencies to help out AA in India. We always have a lot of connections on our flight between DFW and India, I don't think DFW-DEL or DFW-BOM is that outrageous a suggestion. Ideal for the 787-8 or 787-9.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3371
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:20 pm

D L X wrote:
Can someone explain the MIA-Africa market for me?


Basically when wealthy white people started fleeing South Africa due to the political changes and crime rate the top destinations were Australia, New Zealand, and South Florida.
 
747megatop
Posts: 1712
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:30 pm

dfw88 wrote:
With the large Indian population and fortress hub at DFW I would be shocked if an AA return to India didn't originate from DFW. It would be close-ish to the 789 range, but I think it would be doable.

Most likely DFW-BOM/DEL

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