NYKiwi
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:41 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:34 am

I read this artcle and had some thoughts also.

1. This is a prudent business decision ahead of the next economic slowdown. Indications are showing slowdown in US and Europe so NZ tightening their belt a bit. Very wise in my view.
2. Enhanced economy. I cant see them.putting in new slim line seats in econ. The seats are relatively new and i think comfortable enough just pitch at 31" is tight so maybe move to 32-33"
3. Biz Prem sounds indeed like a few little upgrades but no new seat. I think this all goes into new aircraft deferral and they wont announce new seat until new aircraft arrives
4. More spacious econ maybe v3 better suited for ORD and EWR
 
pbm
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:38 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:38 am

Gasman wrote:
DougS wrote:
Just curious where you lifted this quote from?


From the stuff link in post #186. Quite clearly indicates there will be no major revision of the J product.


In the investor call they said revisions for now, but the major revision is planned to be released when the 772 replacement is delivered.
 
Gangurru
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:30 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:48 am

Duplicate
Last edited by Gangurru on Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Gangurru
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:30 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:50 am

For those interested, here is a link to the information direct from Air NZ.

The investor presentation specifically says “enhanced seating in multiple cabins” (slide 4).
Slide 6 has the updated fleet delivery schedule and the note about 2 widebody aircraft being delayed until 2023 to coincide with fleet replacement.

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-a ... 297516.pdf
 
DougS
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:18 am

pbm wrote:
Gasman wrote:
DougS wrote:
Just curious where you lifted this quote from?


From the stuff link in post #186. Quite clearly indicates there will be no major revision of the J product.


In the investor call they said revisions for now, but the major revision is planned to be released when the 772 replacement is delivered.


Cool, that’s relief.
 
jimmyah
Posts: 51
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:38 am

Gasman wrote:
DougS wrote:
Just curious where you lifted this quote from?


From the stuff link in post #186. Quite clearly indicates there will be no major revision of the J product.



There will be a revision of Business Premier.

From stuff.co.nz "An enhanced version of its existing business premier seat will be fitted to the long haul widebody fleet towards the end of this year with the rollout expected to be completed by December 2020".

And from Air NZ press release: "Mr Luxon says that Air New Zealand will begin fitting an enhanced version of its existing Business Premier seat to its widebody fleet towards the end of the 2019 calendar year and the rollout is expected to be completed by December 2020."

Personally, I am looking forward to this much-needed update. Other carriers have really stepped up their game when it comes to the hard product in the last few years and Air NZ need to keep up in times of slowing growth.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2053
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:29 am

jimmyah wrote:

There will be a revision of Business Premier.

From stuff.co.nz "An enhanced version of its existing business premier seat will be fitted to the long haul widebody fleet towards the end of this year with the rollout expected to be completed by December 2020".

And from Air NZ press release: "Mr Luxon says that Air New Zealand will begin fitting an enhanced version of its existing Business Premier seat to its widebody fleet towards the end of the 2019 calendar year and the rollout is expected to be completed by December 2020."

Personally, I am looking forward to this much-needed update. Other carriers have really stepped up their game when it comes to the hard product in the last few years and Air NZ need to keep up in times of slowing growth.


An "enhanced version" is not a revision. I'd imagine the enhancements will consist of updated IFE, better recline in "seat" mode, a couple of extra cubbyholes for storage and.... that's it. No extra space, and still the awful aisle facing herringbone config. Personally I don't understand why anyone pays top dollar for this product but at the very least, this is an opportunity missed.
 
aerohottie
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:02 am

Gasman wrote:
jimmyah wrote:

There will be a revision of Business Premier.

From stuff.co.nz "An enhanced version of its existing business premier seat will be fitted to the long haul widebody fleet towards the end of this year with the rollout expected to be completed by December 2020".

And from Air NZ press release: "Mr Luxon says that Air New Zealand will begin fitting an enhanced version of its existing Business Premier seat to its widebody fleet towards the end of the 2019 calendar year and the rollout is expected to be completed by December 2020."

Personally, I am looking forward to this much-needed update. Other carriers have really stepped up their game when it comes to the hard product in the last few years and Air NZ need to keep up in times of slowing growth.


An "enhanced version" is not a revision. I'd imagine the enhancements will consist of updated IFE, better recline in "seat" mode, a couple of extra cubbyholes for storage and.... that's it. No extra space, and still the awful aisle facing herringbone config. Personally I don't understand why anyone pays top dollar for this product but at the very least, this is an opportunity missed.

I'm happy to pay for the product for overnight flights, because it is the most comfortable "bed" for sleeping that i've found in a business class seat. Completely flat, with no lumps and soft
What?
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:36 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:04 am

aerohottie wrote:
Gasman wrote:
jimmyah wrote:

There will be a revision of Business Premier.

From stuff.co.nz "An enhanced version of its existing business premier seat will be fitted to the long haul widebody fleet towards the end of this year with the rollout expected to be completed by December 2020".

And from Air NZ press release: "Mr Luxon says that Air New Zealand will begin fitting an enhanced version of its existing Business Premier seat to its widebody fleet towards the end of the 2019 calendar year and the rollout is expected to be completed by December 2020."

Personally, I am looking forward to this much-needed update. Other carriers have really stepped up their game when it comes to the hard product in the last few years and Air NZ need to keep up in times of slowing growth.


An "enhanced version" is not a revision. I'd imagine the enhancements will consist of updated IFE, better recline in "seat" mode, a couple of extra cubbyholes for storage and.... that's it. No extra space, and still the awful aisle facing herringbone config. Personally I don't understand why anyone pays top dollar for this product but at the very least, this is an opportunity missed.

I'm happy to pay for the product for overnight flights, because it is the most comfortable "bed" for sleeping that i've found in a business class seat. Completely flat, with no lumps and soft


I agree with you. It's comfy when you actually lie down.
(777 that is, 789...a bit tight isn't it)
Trouble is, recognising the product is off the pace,
and this is to do with privacy, tedious catering, overhead
storage (the bed stuff fills what space is up there) and all
these sorts of things, that with this market slow down, NOW
is the time to redo it all....not waiting even longer for the new
generation widebody deliveries. Redo it now NZ, keep the
premium customers when you might well most need them.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:08 pm

Is there any chance they take the current P seat in an updated version and place it in a reverse herringbone layout? If this is the nature of the change it would be welcome indeed. Similar seat, similar flat bed but facing the other way. They really got this one wrong IMHO. Time to fix it. Then the issues with the business layout and lack of privacy disappear overnight but you keep that great bed. Suddenly their rather inferior product has rather more batting edge.
Plane mad!
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:21 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
Gasman wrote:

An "enhanced version" is not a revision. I'd imagine the enhancements will consist of updated IFE, better recline in "seat" mode, a couple of extra cubbyholes for storage and.... that's it. No extra space, and still the awful aisle facing herringbone config. Personally I don't understand why anyone pays top dollar for this product but at the very least, this is an opportunity missed.

I'm happy to pay for the product for overnight flights, because it is the most comfortable "bed" for sleeping that i've found in a business class seat. Completely flat, with no lumps and soft


I agree with you. It's comfy when you actually lie down.
(777 that is, 789...a bit tight isn't it)
Trouble is, recognising the product is off the pace,
and this is to do with privacy, tedious catering, overhead
storage (the bed stuff fills what space is up there) and all
these sorts of things, that with this market slow down, NOW
is the time to redo it all....not waiting even longer for the new
generation widebody deliveries. Redo it now NZ, keep the
premium customers when you might well most need them.


Indeed. As a bed it's one of the most - if not THE most comfortable J beds out there. I flew in the old QF skybed last week and it did feel like there was the odd piece of Meccano under my back.

But I did still sleep though, and for the greater part of the trip when I wasn't trying to sleep, that old Skybed was still superior to NZ's J. Even in the old 2-2-2 config. And QFs newest product - on the A330 and 789 - I actually prefer to F.

If NZ are not completely revising their J product along the lines of the rest of the world, they must feel very confident about the loyalty of their high value customers.
 
concordianSYD
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:15 am

I agree that NZ’s J bed is comfortable to sleep on, but that’s about the only thing going for it. The associated J soft product is good, but not great. I feel like NZ is caught in-between trying to be a full-service carrier but behaving more like a LCC, something VA was accused of. VA was (by some) looked at as NZ’s poor cousin and eventually NZ divorced them. I keep wondering whether NZ’s alliance partners (e.g. SQ and CX) might one day see NZ as unworthy and decide to go-it alone, which would hurt NZ severely. Does anyone share that concern or is it just me?
Concord is simply my home, sadly not a reference to a plane I’ve flown.
 
NYKiwi
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:41 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:26 am

Just my 2 cents, i dont see NZ anywhere near a LCC in all cabins they offer a good product. Is it cutting edge no but good. Look.at BA in what 8 abreast reverse biz only now just changing.

People.seem.to say NZ PE is better than SQ so maybe a few tweeks are welcome and then as new aircraft come on board new seats throughout......by the the seat technology will chage again
 
wawaman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:07 am

I have a slightly different view on the NZ BusPrem seat. I fly BA most, NZ second and SQ third, always in Biz. The BA seat i hate. If you are in the rearward facing window seat you just can't get in and out of the thing. If you have the bed in lieflat mode and need to visit the lave then forget it. SQ is good, but I'm 6'2" and it is just too short for me. The NZ seat with the curves top and bottom mean I sleep best. Sure, private it isn't, but I can sleep in it, and i can get out of it when I need to. But if you think NZ in not private, try the middle rear facing seat on BA on the 777. It is like sharing a camp bed with someone you don't know.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:49 am

NZ6 wrote:
I said last month there's going to be an exciting year with more announcements. They're not done yet either.


Oh your a tease, do tell.

Anyway it got to social media with A.net as the source re the Q300 replacement. I’m not convinced by that, although I could see Air Nelson and MT Cook merged with 2 types maintained for the foreseeable future. People were expecting an announcement today.

Then again I wasn’t convinced by ICN either and they have gone and announced that which goes against their previous strategy of starting routes with no competition.

It leaves only PVG and the seasonal NZ operated SIN service as evening departures to Asia, previously HKG, 2nd NRT, KIX in 763 days all left at midnight, so higher utilisation seems a priority given they can free up a frame with the HKG change. I just wonder if CX will run a daylight HKG-AKL leaving at midnight?
 
Motorhussy
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:13 am

Les the delay of the two longhaul aircraft to coincide with the replacement announcement of the 77E fleet bode well for the A359?

Sounds like it could to me.
come visit the south pacific
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:19 am

[list=][/list]
Motorhussy wrote:
Les the delay of the two longhaul aircraft to coincide with the replacement announcement of the 77E fleet bode well for the A359?

Sounds like it could to me.

Well production slots are hard to get after the A380 program was cancelled and A350 ordered instead. It is possible that 6 frames can be ordered but not 8 for short term delivery.
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:44 am

Motorhussy wrote:
Les the delay of the two longhaul aircraft to coincide with the replacement announcement of the 77E fleet bode well for the A359?

Sounds like it could to me.


My take on this was that they were intending to convert two of the remaining 789 options and have delayed that potential order by 2 years.
 
Qantas59
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:23 pm

Just flew AKL-NSN-AKL last week on a nice ATR72-600 operated of course by Mt. Cook Airline.
When did Mt Cook begin operating this route? I had thought Air Nelson did all of that.
Cheers,
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:14 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
Les the delay of the two longhaul aircraft to coincide with the replacement announcement of the 77E fleet bode well for the A359?

Sounds like it could to me.


I’d say the opposite and had nothing to do with what they will order just a simple cost saving. I’d say personally 2 772 leases extended from 2022/23 to 2025/26? The 772 isn’t like still having a 744 fuel cost wise, and If fuel remains reasonable cheap then costs will be minimal bar maintenance.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:16 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
Just flew AKL-NSN-AKL last week on a nice ATR72-600 operated of course by Mt. Cook Airline.
When did Mt Cook begin operating this route? I had thought Air Nelson did all of that.
Cheers,



Been on it for years, AKL-NSN is one of the busiest regional routes in NZ so the larger ATR is required, it operates most of the flights to.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:16 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
Les the delay of the two longhaul aircraft to coincide with the replacement announcement of the 77E fleet bode well for the A359?

Sounds like it could to me.


I’d say the opposite and had nothing to do with what they will order just a simple cost saving. I’d say personally 2 772 leases extended from 2022/23 to 2025/26? The 772 isn’t like still having a 744 fuel cost wise, and If fuel remains reasonable cheap then costs will be minimal bar maintenance.


Good points. I think it also gives the airline space and time to think about the 77E replacement in lieu of how it will impact that of the 77W too. IE not exercising two 789 options now when in fact a larger A359/10 or 78X/789 order may be preferable in coming years.
come visit the south pacific
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:37 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
Les the delay of the two longhaul aircraft to coincide with the replacement announcement of the 77E fleet bode well for the A359?

Sounds like it could to me.


I’d say the opposite and had nothing to do with what they will order just a simple cost saving. I’d say personally 2 772 leases extended from 2022/23 to 2025/26? The 772 isn’t like still having a 744 fuel cost wise, and If fuel remains reasonable cheap then costs will be minimal bar maintenance.


Good points. I think it also gives the airline space and time to think about the 77E replacement in lieu of how it will impact that of the 77W too. IE not exercising two 789 options now when in fact a larger A359/10 or 78X/789 order may be preferable in coming years.



I don’t think the overall timeframe for the decision on the 772 replacement has changed, still from what I’m reading between the lines expect an announcement by end of June with first delivery in FY2023/24 or late calendar year 2022?

In all that I’m pretty sure they will have a good idea on what will replace the 77W.
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:30 pm

My understanding from a Senior sorce within Air NZ is that the decision around the future if the Wide body fleet has been made and approved. No clues obviously as to what that may look like. Timing of the announcement lies with the Chief Exec.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:35 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

I’d say the opposite and had nothing to do with what they will order just a simple cost saving. I’d say personally 2 772 leases extended from 2022/23 to 2025/26? The 772 isn’t like still having a 744 fuel cost wise, and If fuel remains reasonable cheap then costs will be minimal bar maintenance.


Good points. I think it also gives the airline space and time to think about the 77E replacement in lieu of how it will impact that of the 77W too. IE not exercising two 789 options now when in fact a larger A359/10 or 78X/789 order may be preferable in coming years.



I don’t think the overall timeframe for the decision on the 772 replacement has changed, still from what I’m reading between the lines expect an announcement by end of June with first delivery in FY2023/24 or late calendar year 2022?

In all that I’m pretty sure they will have a good idea on what will replace the 77W.


This from the stuff article:

"The delivery of three Airbus A321 Neo aircraft planned to operate on the domestic network will be deferred by one year.

The delivery of one A320 Neo aircraft designated for trans-Tasman services will be deferred by two years.

The delivery of two long-haul aircraft will be deferred by at least four years.
"

Why would they defer all these aircraft at the same time as announcing a new long haul fleet? The way I read this, *nothing* is going to happen anytime soon. The share price is almost as low as it was 5 years ago. A major capital expenditure would drop it further.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:33 am

Gasman wrote:
But that's an interesting statement. Are you suggesting it's possible to have a CEO whose sole focus *isn't* to sell products?? ie. one that perhaps sees value in things that can't be quantified on a balance sheet?


Take it which way you want, but looking at former CEO's

Fyfe was much more about brand and image, Norris was about automation and cost reduction, McCrae had an engineering background so the days when ANZES were strong

Of course, air transport is a service industry, therefore, they all needed to sell the product. I'm looking a little deeper, I'd encourage you to as well if you want to analyse how the CEO conducts and shaps his business
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:47 am

Gasman wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:

Good points. I think it also gives the airline space and time to think about the 77E replacement in lieu of how it will impact that of the 77W too. IE not exercising two 789 options now when in fact a larger A359/10 or 78X/789 order may be preferable in coming years.



I don’t think the overall timeframe for the decision on the 772 replacement has changed, still from what I’m reading between the lines expect an announcement by end of June with first delivery in FY2023/24 or late calendar year 2022?

In all that I’m pretty sure they will have a good idea on what will replace the 77W.


This from the stuff article:

"The delivery of three Airbus A321 Neo aircraft planned to operate on the domestic network will be deferred by one year.

The delivery of one A320 Neo aircraft designated for trans-Tasman services will be deferred by two years.

The delivery of two long-haul aircraft will be deferred by at least four years.
"

Why would they defer all these aircraft at the same time as announcing a new long haul fleet? The way I read this, *nothing* is going to happen anytime soon. The share price is almost as low as it was 5 years ago. A major capital expenditure would drop it further.


I would have thought an order for new aircraft would be showing confidence in the market, they are still growing but at a slower rate. I don’t really think the share price being at its lowest and QF at its highest is indicative of NZ doing badly and QF doing well, QF are about to spend a lot of $ replacing almost the entire fleet over the next decade, what is that going to do to their share price, while NZ have already replaced a reasonable percentage of its fleet.

I’m quite sure for NZ that something is going to happen soon.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:48 am

GW54 wrote:
My understanding from a Senior sorce within Air NZ is that the decision around the future if the Wide body fleet has been made and approved. No clues obviously as to what that may look like. Timing of the announcement lies with the Chief Exec.


I think I know. I’m sure all will be revealed soon enough.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:25 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
GW54 wrote:
My understanding from a Senior sorce within Air NZ is that the decision around the future if the Wide body fleet has been made and approved. No clues obviously as to what that may look like. Timing of the announcement lies with the Chief Exec.


I think I know. I’m sure all will be revealed soon enough.


Keen to hear what you think it is.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:32 am

NZ6 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
GW54 wrote:
My understanding from a Senior sorce within Air NZ is that the decision around the future if the Wide body fleet has been made and approved. No clues obviously as to what that may look like. Timing of the announcement lies with the Chief Exec.


I think I know. I’m sure all will be revealed soon enough.


Keen to hear what you think it is.


Talking to a source I would call reliable but not infallible and reading between the lines it’s the 787-10. Maybe some additional 789s if the recent talk of a MTOW increase is true.

However I will add that I was surprised by ICN being added but with streamlining taking place and cost reduction it also makes sense to me that it will be 787-10s.
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:55 am

Given Air New Zealand are ever mindful of cost and are focused on keeping the number of types in the fleet to a minimum I also believe it will be 787's. For that reason I don't believe the A350 was a serious contender. Whether it will be more 9's or 10's is the question. What we do know is that Air New Zealand love the 787. My view is that it will most likely be 10's. The current 787'9s can be re configured which will reduce weight wbich will in turn increase range. I also don't see any urgency around replacing the 777-300's given their relatively young age. We may see the 777-8/9 fearure in the announcement but the actual variant to be firmed up closer to delivery . Re the 772's I can see some of the fleet being around for some time. Could be they take on a role similar to the last 4 767's performed admirably
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:33 am

Air NZ A320-271N ZK-NHB (msn 8803) had it's first flight at XFW on 29 March 2019 as D-AUBU.
Photos: http://www.aviation-friends-hamburg-for ... kenwerder/

Air NZ A320-271N ZK-NHC (msn 8833) as F-WWDE has had it's customer acceptance flight at TLS on 28 March 2019 and delivery is imminent.

And Air NZ ATR 72-600 ZK-MVX (msn 1551) as F-WWEH also appears to have had it's customer acceptance flight at TLS on 28 March 2019.

PA515
 
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Birdiey
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:51 am

 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:27 am

Birdiey wrote:


There is a lot of red tap around how the '3 airlines' need to operate today. As for how much running it as a single airline will impact the customer, you'll have to wait and see.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:51 am

Birdiey wrote:

The aircraft have of course already lost any reference to "Link" with recent repaints, so this is inevitable and was as soon as they elected to close Eagle Air. It will be a very easy decal removal for Air Nelson and Mt Cook titles.

Of course, to run as "one" the Network Operations will likely have to shift to Auckland to be with the existing jet ops which won't be popular with Shane Jones, even if the hangar maintenance bases stay where they are for lack of space in Auckland.. There is no reason to maintain 3 different buildings when they can merge into existing buildings.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Deepinsider
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:14 am

Might AirNZ swallow up it's link carriers?

Either airlines (like NZ) have bought whole
carriers from outside, presumably to capture
and benefit from that market source.
Or.. They have set up from zero a LCC feeder
co. (Freedom? also NZ) in order to escape
entrenched, almost immovable administrative
overhead bureaucracy. and unionised silly
workplace rules/restrictions..

NZ6 is a current employee, and will know
way better than me (ex loyal employee) about the
current effect of the so called 'middle management'
on being a massive overhead, while at the same
time being a terrible road block, both up and down.
Add to this the modern PC b.s. about health and
safety, and the 'cover ass' kind of rules/procedures
that middle managers hide behind, grinding down
the flexible responses of big companies. I fear that
integrating Mt Cook and Air Nelson into the
parent company is doomed to fail.

The best thing that happened to NZ, was when it
went broke, and started again from a near zero effect
of the above forces. (In the U.S. of course, they
have the brilliant Chapter 11 process to escape
this trap, and start again... selfishly speaking!)

My suggestion to NZ is to hold it's own kind of
Chapter 11, of the link carriers, combining/cutting/
customising admin and ops....but at the same time
staying well clear of the mother carrier!

p.s. I'm not against health and safety.....but the
perspective is AT deciding to make a great chunk
of successful, thriving, Auckland, subject to 30 km/hr
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:34 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
Might AirNZ swallow up it's link carriers?


Inevitably.

It's interesting to look back at history and see how we got here. Mount Cook was the 3C of its day - ie. a small airline with a very specific niche, a specific market and staff with specific skills. Flying into MON or ZQN in the 1960s with just one NDB at Coronet Peak serving both wasn't for the faint hearted and didn't happen with anything like the frequency it does today. Air Nelson is slightly different - you get the impression its existence was more about Nelson having its #we'reasgoodasauckland moment, rather than serving a specific niche market.

Regardless, both airlines grew, and while retaining a semblance of independence the differences between them and the national carrier became more and more blurred to the point where as far as the passenger is concerned, it's the same company. Even Lexus and Toyota have different branding; NZ and Mt Cook/Air Nelson don't even pretend.

Done properly (the key word being properly) it's hard to imagine how merging the companies fully wouldn't result in improved economies of scale. Done poorly and the opposite would be true.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:15 pm

Please keep these threads on topic and stop discussing your personal love/hate of airlines in the way that has been happening. This isn't the thread to do it in. Muitple posts have been deleted with warnings given and bans will happen next if it doesn't stop.

All these posts are getting boring and its basically childish behaviour.

Regards

777ER
Head Forum Moderator
Head Forum Moderator
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Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
bevan7
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Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:46 pm

777ER wrote:
Please keep these threads on topic and stop discussing your personal love/hate of airlines in the way that has been happening. This isn't the thread to do it in. Muitple posts have been deleted with warnings given and bans will happen next if it doesn't stop.

All these posts are getting boring and its basically childish behaviour.

Regards

777ER
Head Forum Moderator


Much agreed. Thanks for doing this
 
bevan7
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:44 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:05 pm

Gasman wrote:
bevan7 wrote:
777ER wrote:
Please keep these threads on topic and stop discussing your personal love/hate of airlines in the way that has been happening. This isn't the thread to do it in. Muitple posts have been deleted with warnings given and bans will happen next if it doesn't stop.

All these posts are getting boring and its basically childish behaviour.

Regards

777ER
Head Forum Moderator


Much agreed. Thanks for doing this


Well, I disagree strongly.

I personally find endless discussions which big twin NZ will order next a bit boring, especially in the context of no new information. But I wouldn't try and stop others having the discussion, nor impose my own definitions of boring on other people.


It's okay for people to say their point but it becomes very boring when the same people repeat/rehash the same argument over and over actually thinking that the other person is going to change their mind. This applies to any topic. It would be better if 2 people who realise they're the only people participating in a discussion topic took their arguments to private messaging.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6970
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:36 am

Start of the NS schedules today, some changes for AKL include.

AA last flight SAT 30th.
UA commence year round ops 3x weekly 772 for NS.
PR change to evening arrival 3 weekly A333 same as NW.
SQ reduce to daily 77W, NZ ops night SIN rotation daily 789, plus 5 weekly daylight 789. NZ 12 weekly
TN A343 returns for NS 3 weekly.
HX reduce to 3 weekly, pull out late May 332 ops.
KE 772/77W ops till July then 789 4/5 weekly.
CZ 789 ops 10 weekly compared to A332 NS18.

NZ SFO ops 5 weekly 772/77W compared to daily NS18.
LAX varies 10-14 weekly 77W/772
IAH varies 4-6 weekly 772/77W
YVR varies 3-7 weekly 772


Probably a few I’ve missed.
 
torin
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:52 am

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/1112112864314023936

Samoa Airways on facebook announced it is finalizing agreement with Malindo Air for the lease of 1 737-800, replacing the 737 MAX 9 due to enter service next week


Well that's interesting, while QF operating the Australian services

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/385951/samoa-govt-re-assures-about-plane-availability

Samoa's minister responsible for the country's national airline, Samoa Airways, says there is a "short term" plan to ensure operations run smoothly when the current lease with Iceland Air ends on Monday.

Lautafi Fio Selafi Purcell told the Samoa Observer paper that they have reached an agreement with Qantas to handle all flights to and from Sydney and Brisbane.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8310
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:49 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Start of the NS schedules today, some changes for AKL include.

AA last flight SAT 30th.
UA commence year round ops 3x weekly 772 for NS.
PR change to evening arrival 3 weekly A333 same as NW.
SQ reduce to daily 77W, NZ ops night SIN rotation daily 789, plus 5 weekly daylight 789. NZ 12 weekly
TN A343 returns for NS 3 weekly.
HX reduce to 3 weekly, pull out late May 332 ops.
KE 772/77W ops till July then 789 4/5 weekly.
CZ 789 ops 10 weekly compared to A332 NS18.

NZ SFO ops 5 weekly 772/77W compared to daily NS18.
LAX varies 10-14 weekly 77W/772
IAH varies 4-6 weekly 772/77W
YVR varies 3-7 weekly 772


Probably a few I’ve missed.


You got the major changes. I think. Also, LA drops to 788 from tomorrow.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6970
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:59 am

aerorobnz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Start of the NS schedules today, some changes for AKL include.

AA last flight SAT 30th.
UA commence year round ops 3x weekly 772 for NS.
PR change to evening arrival 3 weekly A333 same as NW.
SQ reduce to daily 77W, NZ ops night SIN rotation daily 789, plus 5 weekly daylight 789. NZ 12 weekly
TN A343 returns for NS 3 weekly.
HX reduce to 3 weekly, pull out late May 332 ops.
KE 772/77W ops till July then 789 4/5 weekly.
CZ 789 ops 10 weekly compared to A332 NS18.

NZ SFO ops 5 weekly 772/77W compared to daily NS18.
LAX varies 10-14 weekly 77W/772
IAH varies 4-6 weekly 772/77W
YVR varies 3-7 weekly 772


Probably a few I’ve missed.


You got the major changes. I think. Also, LA drops to 788 from tomorrow.


Wasn’t aware of LA, thanks.

SQ is normal for those who don’t know in NS, just the second NZ service is new which SQ operate in NW with 77W plus a daily A388 on the other SQ flight for NW.

The likes of CA and MU sometimes reduce frequency over NS aswell.

I wonder how long MH will last with a long layover. Best connections overnight both ways though, parking fees etc.
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:07 am

bevan7 wrote:
Gasman wrote:
bevan7 wrote:

Much agreed. Thanks for doing this


Well, I disagree strongly.

I personally find endless discussions which big twin NZ will order next a bit boring, especially in the context of no new information. But I wouldn't try and stop others having the discussion, nor impose my own definitions of boring on other people.


It's okay for people to say their point but it becomes very boring when the same people repeat/rehash the same argument over and over actually thinking that the other person is going to change their mind. This applies to any topic. It would be better if 2 people who realise they're the only people participating in a discussion topic took their arguments to private messaging.

Everyone is welcome to agree or disagree to what I've posted. If anyone wishes to discuss this, then your welcome to email [email protected] and I'll happily discuss it that way. This thread is for discussing NZ Aviation and I won't discuss Moderating in the forums, as not everyone would be interested in reading it and naturally it would be off topic
Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
coolian2
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:09 am

Deepinsider wrote:
p.s. I'm not against health and safety.....but the
perspective is AT deciding to make a great chunk
of successful, thriving, Auckland, subject to 30 km/hr

:lol: :lol:
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
DougS
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:04 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:16 am

GW54 wrote:
For that reason I don't believe the A350 was a serious contender.


The 350 was a shoe in, until the RR issues. Don't rule it out, as the 350 could have, with the -900 and -1000, replaced the 777-200 & 300ER and given you the same fleet simplification. Don't forget that whilst the -200ER is being replaced now, this is essentially a decision that will cover both variants eventually. I'm not saying the 787 could be a -300ER replacement, clearly not, but I'd be amazed if they went 787 and didn't have 777-8/9 options as you allude to. Ultimately I think they are going to kick the can down the road expenditure wise, and take the easy option with a small firm order of 787-9&10 with GENX and 777 options way in the future. Sucks because I'd love it to be A350, but I'm not paying...
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6970
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:53 am

DougS wrote:
GW54 wrote:
For that reason I don't believe the A350 was a serious contender.


The 350 was a shoe in, until the RR issues. Don't rule it out, as the 350 could have, with the -900 and -1000, replaced the 777-200 & 300ER and given you the same fleet simplification. Don't forget that whilst the -200ER is being replaced now, this is essentially a decision that will cover both variants eventually. I'm not saying the 787 could be a -300ER replacement, clearly not, but I'd be amazed if they went 787 and didn't have 777-8/9 options as you allude to. Ultimately I think they are going to kick the can down the road expenditure wise, and take the easy option with a small firm order of 787-9&10 with GENX and 777 options way in the future. Sucks because I'd love it to be A350, but I'm not paying...


I wouldn’t say the A350 was ever a shoe in, certainly not given a reasonable sized 789 fleet.

IMO there has to be a 78-10ER in future, the 77W worldwide replacement will kick off in around 5 years in bulk, Boeing have the 789 on the low end with the 78J for shorter runs up to 10-11hrs as is then a large step up to the niche 778 and the almost 747 size 779 on the upper end. I think a 78-10ER with a strengthened landing gear etc is a given.

I agree they will keep the 77W replacement open for now but imo likely a 78-10 for LAX/SFO/LHR.

Future fleet and I keep rehashing will ultimately be 789/78J, A321/320, ATR 72-600. Just my opinion of course but as good as the A350 is it’s another type when I believe the 787 could do all of NZ’s routes in one form or another.
 
aerokiwi
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Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:09 am

I think it's been missed that JQ has cut Wellington-Dunedin altogether. Was only 3 weekly but still, a shame. Perhaps a D8 opportunity? I think it's a route that clearly needs a morning and evening service. Surprised that's not been possible.

Meanwhile, saw the Chathams AT7 on MRCAviation site - lacks a few livery flourishes of other types but great to see all the same. Quite a diverse fleet now - Metros, Saabs, Convairs and ATRs! Is that correct?

Re the Air Nelson history... I don't think it's really been about ego. Air Nelson, Origin Pacific and the current Origin (is that its name?) - there's just something about Nelson! Maybe individuals there, or its centralised geography and proximity to some pretty great tourism destinations. Has always had the sfrong commuter element on the Wellington route too to underpin broader growth. I think it's pretty neat. A shame Hamilton, with all its industry, can't claim the same - the proximity to Auckland probably preventing that.
 
a7ala
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2019

Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:17 am

aerokiwi wrote:
I think it's been missed that JQ has cut Wellington-Dunedin altogether. Was only 3 weekly but still, a shame. Perhaps a D8 opportunity? I think it's a route that clearly needs a morning and evening service. Surprised that's not been possible.


Aircraft time being switched to Wellington-Queenstown in October which will increase to 6pw. A more sensible operation to consolidate 6pw on one route than 3pw on two. And as you allude to wlg-dud needs freq and is better 2x daily with a Q400 than 3pw with an A320.

Its amazing to see the growth in wlg-zqn over the last couple of years. From a couple of ATRs per day to what will be 3 daily a320s.

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