Turkish Aviation March 2019

TK787 · Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:29 pm

Hello there Turkish aviation fans,
I am not going into details of the new airport this month. It’s move is postponed again, to April 6th. There is another thread about the new airport here:
New Istanbul Airport thread

Besides that:
-TK to start Marrakech 5 x W late March, also TK to start AYT-TLV 5 x W.
-Well, one thing is for sure. There are no more discussion about 748/380 for TK any more

You can find last month's thread here: Turkish Aviation February 2019

Please continue with your views, news, rumors, photos and good old sense of humor. No politics, No personal attacks.
Safe flights and Happy Landings to all.
Welcome.

stylo777 · Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:04 pm

Quite happy to experience Ataturk Airport yet another time, but arrivals were very busy tonight. Comment of cabin crew: "we almost reached Ukraine during approach to runway 23".
Anyways, clear sky and lovely views while flying over the city. Yet another thing which I personally will miss in future. I guess, with mostly North-South facing runways their won't be any "sightseeing approachs" over the city anymore at ISL?

BOEING777EK · Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:18 am

When I was in SAW, I saw TC-JPH and TC-JPI, both engineless and stored.

A321Lufthansa · Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:42 am

Looks like TK decreased the number of B738s at ISL in favour of A321/32Bs. For example:
ISL-TZX shifted from 320 to 32B
ISL-FRA from 738 to 32B
ISL-VKO from 738 to 320 (an interesting shift on such destinations), but from 08.03. shifts back to 738
ISL-ASR from 738 to 320/321
ISL-DIY from 320 to 32B

stylo777 · Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:48 pm

Are the aircraft actually based at ISL or rotated through their destinations?

A321Lufthansa · Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:30 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Are the aircraft actually based at ISL or rotated through their destinations?

They are based at ISL for a few days and then rotated back to IST and new aircrafts come the same way.

peterinlisbon · Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:01 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
Looks like TK decreased the number of B738s at ISL in favour of A321/32Bs. For example:
ISL-TZX shifted from 320 to 32B
ISL-FRA from 738 to 32B
ISL-VKO from 738 to 320 (an interesting shift on such destinations), but from 08.03. shifts back to 738
ISL-ASR from 738 to 320/321
ISL-DIY from 320 to 32B

I imagine this is to train A320 crews as well as their 737 crews and get everyone used to the new airport before it opens. They are probably rotating crew and ground staff in and out of the new airport.

peterinlisbon · Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:03 pm

TK787 wrote:
-Well, one thing is for sure. There are no more discussion about 748/380 for TK any more .

TK should buy some second hand A380s. A fleet of 20 would do.

aldrigsomandre · Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:52 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
TK787 wrote:
-Well, one thing is for sure. There are no more discussion about 748/380 for TK any more .

TK should buy some second hand A380s. A fleet of 20 would do.

Why?

TK787 · Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:59 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:

TK should buy some second hand A380s. A fleet of 20 would do.

Ha ha, that's a good one

By the way, about the 320s at ISL, I doubt that it is for training. The loads out of ISL is not that great, the yields are probably worse. So TK is putting using 320s there until the move; to limit its losses out of ISL.

mercure1 · Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:50 pm

A record year from Sun Express

Turkish carrier SunExpress sees record revenue; prepares for MAX deliveries
https://atwonline.com/data-financials/t ... deliveries

Did not realize that Sun Express fleet is now up to 83 frames!

leftyboarder · Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:41 am

mercure1 wrote:
A record year from Sun Express

Turkish carrier SunExpress sees record revenue; prepares for MAX deliveries
https://atwonline.com/data-financials/t ... deliveries

Did not realize that Sun Express fleet is now up to 83 frames!

Includes Anadolujet wetleases too.

stylo777 · Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:17 am

Well done SunExpress, always a pleasure to fly with.

I guess, it also includes the SunExpress Germany fleet and maybe the 330s flown on behalf of Eurowings?

peterinlisbon · Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:53 am

TK787 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:

TK should buy some second hand A380s. A fleet of 20 would do.

Ha ha, that's a good one

By the way, about the 320s at ISL, I doubt that it is for training. The loads out of ISL is not that great, the yields are probably worse. So TK is putting using 320s there until the move; to limit its losses out of ISL.

Is there a big difference in capacity between the 738 and the A320? I thought they were pretty much the same in terms of capacity and fuel consumption. What I'm thinking is that they would want all of their pilots to have been in the cockpit for at least a few landings and takeoffs before the big move. They might put the long-haul pilots in the jump seat on the Airbus just to get familiar with the new airport.

A321Lufthansa · Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:31 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
TK787 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:

TK should buy some second hand A380s. A fleet of 20 would do.

Ha ha, that's a good one

By the way, about the 320s at ISL, I doubt that it is for training. The loads out of ISL is not that great, the yields are probably worse. So TK is putting using 320s there until the move; to limit its losses out of ISL.

Is there a big difference in capacity between the 738 and the A320? I thought they were pretty much the same in terms of capacity and fuel consumption. What I'm thinking is that they would want all of their pilots to have been in the cockpit for at least a few landings and takeoffs before the big move. They might put the long-haul pilots in the jump seat on the Airbus just to get familiar with the new airport.

The standard 73Hs have even a bit less seats than A320 of TC-JU* series which are based at ISL (12/144, may vary due to eurobusiness)

TK787 · Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:41 pm

You guys might be correct.
Looking at last few days, I actually found more 738 flights out of ISL compared to 320.
And 738s have 151 seats compared to A320s having 162 seats.

Like this A320, doing a lot of flights out of ISL, but spending the night outside Istanbul airports.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-juk

Or this 738, flying out of ISL but spending the nights outside Istanbul airports.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-jvj

stylo777 · Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:10 pm

Is TK generally not using ULD containers on their 321's or was it just an exception to my flight?

A321Lufthansa · Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:19 pm

TK finally got its first B737 MAX 9. What is the configuration - C16Y135 or C16Y153?

THY748i · Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:18 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
TK finally got its first B737 MAX 9. What is the configuration - C16Y135 or C16Y153?

It‘s C16Y153 according to planespotters.

TK787 · Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:29 pm

Today I got one of those notices from TK, for one of my flights in August:
"Your following flights have schedule changes. Please contact our call center for schedule change procedures at 444 0 849 or +90 850 333 0 849. Please be informed and have a safe flight!"
So, I logged on to TK website and sure enough, my flight now is leaving 10 minutes later and I'm given 3 options; Cancel, Change, Confirm.
So, when I hit confirm another page opens up, looks like an error page, gives me two options but none sounded right. I click on one of the options, nothing happens, it dumps me back to the previous page. After few times, I click the other option ( I can't remember but it wasn't "Confirm" ), and it accepts. I have no idea what it was but I think I successfully accepted the time change on my flight. By pure; trial and error

Blerg · Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:28 pm

TK787 wrote:
Today I got one of those notices from TK, for one of my flights in August:
"Your following flights have schedule changes. Please contact our call center for schedule change procedures at 444 0 849 or +90 850 333 0 849. Please be informed and have a safe flight!"
So, I logged on to TK website and sure enough, my flight now is leaving 10 minutes later and I'm given 3 options; Cancel, Change, Confirm.
So, when I hit confirm another page opens up, looks like an error page, gives me two options but none sounded right. I click on one of the options, nothing happens, it dumps me back to the previous page. After few times, I click the other option ( I can't remember but it wasn't "Confirm" ), and it accepts. I have no idea what it was but I think I successfully accepted the time change on my flight. By pure; trial and error

I noticed KK changed their BEG flights by some 10 minutes, could it be that new IST is 10 minutes closer if you are flying to a destination that's to the west?

ist2014 · Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:58 pm

TK filled fy 18 result and presentation
Some errosion at EBITDAR margin but we should consider high baseline of 2017
From fleet perspective:
1) phaseout of 4a340 is mentioned at fleet page
2) addition of 2 a333 but so clue about source, since it is not announced previously, it will be a lease

mercure1 · Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:00 pm

As predicted good year for profits at TK

Turkish Airlines reported that its net profit soared to 4 billion Turkish Liras ($745 million) in 2018 from 639 million liras in 2018.
Revenues of the national flag carrier also increased by a strong 58 percent last year to reach 62.9 billion liras while its gross profit rose to 13.5 billion liras in 2018 from 7.8 billion liras in 2017.

Pegasus also did good.

Turkey’s leading low cost carrier Pegasus Airlines reported on March 4 that its net profit rose in 2018 to stand at 507 million liras.
The carrier’s revenues increased by 55 percent to 8.3 billion liras in 2018.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkis ... 018-141665

HeyTK · Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:02 pm

Another flight out of Ataturk today. Hope it was the last one. I have never seen it so crowded as today.

dozerman · Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:59 pm

Just saw this on airlineroute: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... es-in-s19/

It says Sunexpress (not Sunexpress Germany) will fly ADB-WAW and AYT-WAW, 1 and 2 weekly respectively. These don't look like charter flights. I thought Turkish carriers were maxed out under the Turkey-Poland bilateral. Were there any new changes? I've heard that Poland allowed TK to fly A330 on some days, but they don't even have daily flights to WAW. It's weird that Sunexpress gets more flights when TK doesn't.

stylo777 · Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:18 pm

quick look on their website and indeed, the flights are bookable thus no charter flights. on the other hand, there are plenty of flights between Poland and Turkish beach-destinations during summer. maybe those aren't subject to the bileterals.

stylo777 · Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:03 am

IGA released two nicely made very short videos showing the way from terminal entrance through check-in, security, duty free to the gates (both for domestic and international departures):

IGA Istanbul Airport Domestic
IGA Istanbul Airport International

again, very beautiful and stunning terminal construction, but I'm already sad knowing that already in one year nothing will look as clean, shiny and in order like shown. I don't want to sound the wrong way here; however, the massive clash of cultures and movement of millions of people paired with their respective habits and attitudes will surely transform this place.

Blerg · Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:13 am

This summer, 3 out of 14 weekly flights to MAN on TK will be operated with the A332.

dozerman · Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:49 am

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2019/

Indigo is doubling IST flights, before they even started flying. With the postponement of the airport move I would've expected them to delay the inaugural like ET. Looks like they will start from Ataturk. They had very little time to sell tickets, I doubt they filled the first daily flights already.

Wouldn't the Pakistani airspace closure make this route impossible with A320/321neo? I hope that is solved soon.

Blerg · Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:50 am

TK already started selling tickets on their website, pricing has been synchronized, flights start from €256 one way. I think this was such a brilliant move on TK's behalf as it will give them perfect access to the Indian market.

stylo777 · Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:28 am

I'm more surprised about the timings. Both flights are relatively close to each other. Wouldn't it have made more sense to arrive in the morning to IST in order to catch the EU+US wave?

stylo777 · Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:33 am

I just realized that TK has an interesting approach to 320 operations. Only a handful are actually utilized from IST as it seems (SAW has the majority currently based). The subfleet is "only" 18 aircraft strong compared to their around 100x 738's which are comparable in size. Another factor is probably the steady and continious growth of their 321 fleet; however, doesn't it make sense to replace the remaining 320's (and 319's for that matter...) with more 73M or 321 (ceo or neo)?

On the other hand I also see here a perfect business case for the CS300. Add around 30 frames which gives them a good economics of scales and get rid of the 25x 319/320s. It's a beautiful aircraft and capable of taking over the missions. I've been onboard both LX and BT versions. I believe, TK should be brave enough to order it. What do you think?

Blerg · Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:34 am

stylo777 wrote:
I'm more surprised about the timings. Both flights are relatively close to each other. Wouldn't it have made more sense to arrive in the morning to IST in order to catch the EU+US wave?

Flights are more spread out the other way. Also, maybe both airlines want to avoid middle of the night departures from India as is the case with almost all other carriers. It could be a competitive advantage.

stylo777 · Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:04 pm

Could very well be, but this decreases the possibilities for North Atlantic connections. Europe is another story; the midday arrival covers those. Unless, they are solely focussing on O&D traffic between IN-TR.

716131 · Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:11 pm

BOEING777EK wrote:
When I was in SAW, I saw TC-JPH and TC-JPI, both engineless and stored.

TC-JPH is still in service, JPI is likely to be stored

Blerg · Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:03 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Could very well be, but this decreases the possibilities for North Atlantic connections. Europe is another story; the midday arrival covers those. Unless, they are solely focussing on O&D traffic between IN-TR.

My guess is that they had to make a choice, either to go after North American passengers or European ones. I suppose the market to Europe, north Africa and Levant is much larger. Who knows what might happen in the future. What surprises me though is that IndiGo added both flights from DEL in stead of adding another city such as BOM.

dozerman · Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:33 pm

Blerg wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
Could very well be, but this decreases the possibilities for North Atlantic connections. Europe is another story; the midday arrival covers those. Unless, they are solely focussing on O&D traffic between IN-TR.

My guess is that they had to make a choice, either to go after North American passengers or European ones. I suppose the market to Europe, north Africa and Levant is much larger. Who knows what might happen in the future. What surprises me though is that IndiGo added both flights from DEL in stead of adding another city such as BOM.

Probably not. There are plenty of European flights leaving around similar times with the North American flights. TK serves both markets with their schedule.

ist2014 · Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:51 pm

TK has a strong A321 fleet, so having some A320 and 319 is not an issue due to same type rating, spare part and maintanace, it gives flexibility for planning as well, TK can shift form A319to321 depending in demand
I agree for some A220 even trying to leverage it for additional Canada slots (i am not sure is it still valid or not after airbus) but it should not be replacement of 319/320
It can be dedicated for Anadolu jet or some regional routes

Blerg · Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:00 pm

dozerman wrote:
Blerg wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
Could very well be, but this decreases the possibilities for North Atlantic connections. Europe is another story; the midday arrival covers those. Unless, they are solely focussing on O&D traffic between IN-TR.

My guess is that they had to make a choice, either to go after North American passengers or European ones. I suppose the market to Europe, north Africa and Levant is much larger. Who knows what might happen in the future. What surprises me though is that IndiGo added both flights from DEL in stead of adding another city such as BOM.

Probably not. There are plenty of European flights leaving around similar times with the North American flights. TK serves both markets with their schedule.

From what I've seen return flight is the issue, connections are either missed or are long. European and regional flights connect perfectly though.

LAXintl · Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:39 pm

Planned TK ops center and crew terminal at new airport.

https://www.architectmagazine.com/proje ... w-terminal

stylo777 · Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:06 am

Looks neat and certainly a millenial step-up to current facilities.

The usual questions when talking about ISL:
- did the construction of this center start already?
- when will it be in operation?
- how does the interim solution look like?

LAXintl · Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:07 am

For those that noticed the slight changes in the logo, TK confirms its updating its brand identity.
TK has partnered with UK marketing and advertising agency Imagination Group to refresh its identity.

http://fieldmarketing.com/news/imaginat ... -take-off/
https://www.thedrum.com/news/2019/03/07 ... d-identity

mercure1 · Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:22 am

Its smart move for companies to review their brand posture every decade with aye towards small refresh.
Will look forward to seeing the changes on broader scale.

HeyTK · Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:17 am

I like the black and gold color palette but will they go as far as changing the red/white livery too?

OA260 · Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:18 pm

Liking the black and gold too.

A321Lufthansa · Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:45 pm

ist2014 wrote:
TK has a strong A321 fleet, so having some A320 and 319 is not an issue due to same type rating, spare part and maintanace, it gives flexibility for planning as well, TK can shift form A319to321 depending in demand
I agree for some A220 even trying to leverage it for additional Canada slots (i am not sure is it still valid or not after airbus) but it should not be replacement of 319/320
It can be dedicated for Anadolu jet or some regional routes

On the other hand, the product offered on A319/320s can't be compared even with the A321s delivered from 2011. I used to fly TK A320s 5 times and 2 times on the rows after 12 - the legroom there was so awful. Also there is no IFE and normall business class.

stylo777 · Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:08 pm

correct, the inflight product even compared to their 738 is pretty subpar. after dozens of flights with both the 321/738 and once in a while with the 320's this becomes very evident.
I would suggest to do at least a cabin refurbish if they are planning on keeping them longer. with their inhouse seat manufacturer this could probably been handled pretty easily. just thinking...

stylo777 · Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:17 pm

could someone kindly provide an update about Pegasus fleet?
I see them having:
- 45 B737-800
- 12 A320-200ceo
- 23 A320neo
how many are leaving the fleet in the near future and how many are still on order?

LAXintl · Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:26 am

Per investor presentation Pegasus fleet as follows as of Feb 28, 2019

737-400 = 1
737-800 = 46
A320ceo = 12
A320neo = 22

Receiving 11 planes in 2019, - 9 A320neo, 2 A321neo. 20 planes planned in 2020 - 15 A320neo, 5 A321ceo.

ramzi · Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:59 am

LAXintl wrote:
Per investor presentation Pegasus fleet as follows as of Feb 28, 2019

737-400 = 1
737-800 = 46
A320ceo = 12
A320neo = 22

Receiving 11 planes in 2019, - 9 A320neo, 2 A321neo. 20 planes planned in 2020 - 15 A320neo, 5 A321ceo.

Why would they still be flying a 734? Is it being phased out with all these new deliveries?

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