Boof02671 wrote:

That’s not commuter that’s mainline.

OMG!

winginit wrote:

Bobloblaw wrote:

I don’t believe London is the top corporate route from Boston from the BOS point point sale

By revenue it is, and it's twice as large as the number two. I guess you're free to believe whatever you want though.

Bobloblaw wrote:

So it’s possible Prism doesn’t even include Jetblue?

Incorrect. Only Southwest, Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant are not included.

tphuang wrote:

And it's funny that you suddenly changed from top 10 to top 15. I guess top 15 will show plenty of locations where B6 dominate.

It'll show... let's see... one where they dominate. I suppose two if we set aside WN.

11. RDU: #2 behind DL
12. SEA #2 behind AS
13. MCO #1
14. CLT #2 behind AA
15. BWI #2 behind WN

airbazar wrote:

Seems like a pretty darn good incentive for B6 to start TATL flights doesn't it?

Which is exactly what I said in the quote that you cut off:

winginit wrote:

Of course it does! Because, and this may be breaking news here, but business travelers, especially for some of the the firms who have a large BOS presence like Deloitte, PwC, Fidelity, Raytheon, and Accenture... wait for it... they fly internationally! For business! Namely to places like LHR, CDG etc. To downplay or ignore the international piece when it comes to the preferences of BOS-based business travelers is comical. It's the very reason B6 is expanding!

Bluewho wrote:

I think the point you guys are missing is exactly what jetblue is doing. They are growing DCA and other areas so they can compete for the business travelers. They pretty much said that with the London announcement. They talk about it all the time in presentations. Are the the biggest you can debate it all day but the point is they are focusing on it right now.

See the quote above. That's exactly what I'm saying. JetBlue, at present, are not the BOS business travelers airline of choice. This TATL expansions is a solid move in that direction. I have absolutely no ill-will against B6. I love Mint, and I respect what they're doing. Will this TATL flying be a shoe in for them? Of course not, and LHR slots alone are going to be a sizeable financial burden for an airline of their size, but what their doing is a logical progression for their business model.

They are definitely ahead of DL at RDU. They have 6 to 7 flights on E90 and DL has 6 flights on mostly RJ.

Q4 BOS-RDU passenger boarded, flights
B6 75231 949
DL 61712 929

keep up with the times

And the further you go down the list, the more you will see that B6 is the only one in all the markets. But keep focusing on the selected markets and the yield data i offered and the math I provided to show they are winning the biggest share of travelers from BOS in those key market.

Keep ignoring the importance of flying everywhere for business travelers, including flights to their Florida homes, other places they need to go for various reasons because business traveler apparently only fly when their company is paying.

They are never going to dominate BOS as much as legacies dominate their hubs, since BOS is a fragmented market, but all evidence would point that they've won enough business to be the biggest one for domestic corporate dollars. And they will win even bigger chunk of the overall pie as they expand internationally.

Food for though, if B6 has less traction with business community in BOS than legacies, how did they become dominant and chased AA off BOS-PIT over time? And same as BOS-CLE?

And not that long ago they only had like 5 flights out of Boston. What they have done there is actually impressive.

Boof02671 wrote:

That’s not commuter that’s mainline.

Which is a good thing.

tphuang wrote:

They are definitely ahead of DL at RDU. They have 6 to 7 flights on E90 and DL has 6 flights on mostly RJ.

Q4 BOS-RDU passenger boarded, flights
B6 75231 949
DL 61712 929

keep up with the times

A whole quarter of data is cute. Here's the full year 2019 schedule as it currently stands in OAG:

DL: 310 flights, 29,908 Seats
B6: 294 flights, 29,400 Seats

tphuang wrote:

Keep ignoring the importance of flying everywhere for business travelers, including flights to their Florida homes, other places they need to go for various reasons because business traveler apparently only fly when their company is paying.

Everywhere eh? Everywhere except, you know, the overwhelming top business destination by revenue - hence the very expansion that spurred this thread in the first place.

dupe

Bluewho wrote:

Pbb152 wrote:

It’s really sad how all the DL fanboys have to try to use this and many other threads as a weird dick swinging contest. Bizarre lot you DL fanboys are.

It’s something I have found interesting as well. Delta is great no doubt but why there is this need to push everyone else down is amazing to me. Just be happy with your favorite airline and move on.

JetBlue can’t and most likely will never match Delta it’s also a 19year old playing with much much older airlines. They already have the fleets and mega hubs and joint ventures. It’s like looking at a college kid and saying, why don’t you have a home a new car two kids the Disney vacation club and your retirement funded. And if you don’t have those things obviously you have failed. Historically speaking jetblue has actually done very very well yet it’s always attacked. Yeah it has issues and for the first time they actually acknowledged it at the all hands meeting.

We all want to make jetblue into our image of what it should be when it’s still pretty much the same east coast airline catering to where the people of NY and now Boston and FLL want to go. Yeah they have changed but it’s to complete. You don’t see them opening up a hub in MCI with RJs feeding the operation. Let jetblue be jetblue and Delta be Delta.

Nail on the head. I like DL, but that said, they are wasting their time in BOS as far as I'm concerned.

winginit wrote:

tphuang wrote:

They are definitely ahead of DL at RDU. They have 6 to 7 flights on E90 and DL has 6 flights on mostly RJ.

Q4 BOS-RDU passenger boarded, flights
B6 75231 949
DL 61712 929

keep up with the times

A whole quarter of data is cute. Here's the full year 2019 schedule as it currently stands in OAG:

DL: 310 flights, 29,908 Seats
B6: 294 flights, 29,400 Seats

DL is ramping up mainline on RDU-BOS, they'll be up to mostly mainline for the rest of the year starting in June.

airbazar wrote:

winginit wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Your metric of by revenue is intentionally understating an airline that doesn't fly to Europe.

Of course it does! Because, and this may be breaking news here, but business travelers, especially for some of the the firms who have a large BOS presence like Deloitte, PwC, Fidelity, Raytheon, and Accenture... wait for it... they fly internationally!

As someone who works for one of the firms you listed above, guess which airline is my firm's preferred carrier? B6. Nearly all of our domestic travel is on B6.
We use BA&AF for TATL travel because B6 doesn't fly it. Guess which airline we're going to start flying once B6 enters the TATL market?

I doubt it is that simple....

I worked for a large company based in the Northeast(not listed), and when I worked there we had about 4-6 Preferred Carriers(WN/B6/AC/AM/AS/e.t.c) and 3 "Most Preferred Carriers(AA/DL/UA)." While my former company wasn't based in BOS, you can bet they have a large presence there.

So, I highly doubt "nearly all" of your company's domestic travel is on B6. It just doesn't make sense for large multinational companies to have "nearly all" of their domestic travel on an airline like B6 since B6 doesn't serve a sizable amount of small-midsized markets.

winginit wrote:

tphuang wrote:

They are definitely ahead of DL at RDU. They have 6 to 7 flights on E90 and DL has 6 flights on mostly RJ.

Q4 BOS-RDU passenger boarded, flights
B6 75231 949
DL 61712 929

keep up with the times

A whole quarter of data is cute. Here's the full year 2019 schedule as it currently stands in OAG:

DL: 310 flights, 29,908 Seats
B6: 294 flights, 29,400 Seats

except that they made the move to 6 daily late in Q3 of 2018. And since then, they have been at 6x daily and they are going up to 7x daily next fall. And they've maintain their yield advantage over DL B717s. So yeah, what they had previous to their change doesn't matter. It's about what's ahead.

tphuang wrote:

Keep ignoring the importance of flying everywhere for business travelers, including flights to their Florida homes, other places they need to go for various reasons because business traveler apparently only fly when their company is paying.

Everywhere eh? Everywhere except, you know, the overwhelming top business destination by revenue - hence the very expansion that spurred this thread in the first place.

They do fly everywhere if you want to go domestically. They dominate all leisure destinations which are large part of corporate traveller's destinations and you continue to ignore. They fly to 40 out of 50 top markets out of Boston. They have corporate contract with all except 1 large company in Boston. So clearly, the business market in Boston thinks they have things covered. Otherwise, it wouldn't show up in the results on the top business markets.

And, DL doesn't even consider CDG and LHR to be top 5 markets out of Boston.

https://news.delta.com/delta-adds-more- ... hington-dc
"These new routes, along with our existing flights to San Francisco and Los Angeles, means that beginning next fall Delta will offer service to the five top business markets requested by our corporate customers."

It’s the smaller markets that add up for JetBlue as well. Markets like AUS and SJC and so forth. Delta at the moment is in 3rd place in BOS no way are they carrying more busines traffic than B6. Also I highly doubt Prism captures data from small and medium sized companies. Sabre even cautions that their own data is sketchy.

.....Someone correct me if I'm wrong but does B6 seriously think they can fly the A220 to Europe in an all economy layout? I can see the A321 working with MINT but the A220 in their current configuration would NEVER work out.

Super80Fan wrote:

.....Someone correct me if I'm wrong but does B6 seriously think they can fly the A220 to Europe in an all economy layout? I can see the A321 working with MINT but the A220 in their current configuration would NEVER work out.

There are no plans to bring the A220 to Europe in any config. Rumors of all Mint 220 service to LCY, but that's pure speculation.

flyby519 wrote:

Super80Fan wrote:

.....Someone correct me if I'm wrong but does B6 seriously think they can fly the A220 to Europe in an all economy layout? I can see the A321 working with MINT but the A220 in their current configuration would NEVER work out.

There are no plans to bring the A220 to Europe in any config. Rumors of all Mint 220 service to LCY, but that's pure speculation.

Thanks for clarifying.

It's interesting to read the entirety of this thread when we had a certain poster a few days ago who had posted a supposed ''leaked schedule'' of BOS-LHR which was obviously a figment of his imagination and was clearly untrue which I think we all knew at the time!

That certain poster has been clearly avoiding this thread since he made that comment but then again I'll just say this ''blueknows-nothing''

Fargo wrote:

Bluewho wrote:

Pbb152 wrote:

It’s really sad how all the DL fanboys have to try to use this and many other threads as a weird dick swinging contest. Bizarre lot you DL fanboys are.

It’s something I have found interesting as well. Delta is great no doubt but why there is this need to push everyone else down is amazing to me. Just be happy with your favorite airline and move on.

JetBlue can’t and most likely will never match Delta it’s also a 19year old playing with much much older airlines. They already have the fleets and mega hubs and joint ventures. It’s like looking at a college kid and saying, why don’t you have a home a new car two kids the Disney vacation club and your retirement funded. And if you don’t have those things obviously you have failed. Historically speaking jetblue has actually done very very well yet it’s always attacked. Yeah it has issues and for the first time they actually acknowledged it at the all hands meeting.

We all want to make jetblue into our image of what it should be when it’s still pretty much the same east coast airline catering to where the people of NY and now Boston and FLL want to go. Yeah they have changed but it’s to complete. You don’t see them opening up a hub in MCI with RJs feeding the operation. Let jetblue be jetblue and Delta be Delta.

Nail on the head. I like DL, but that said, they are wasting their time in BOS as far as I'm concerned.

Oh no! jumbojet is going to tell you how wrong you are very soon. His life revolves around DL and he will not be told that DL isn’t the greatest entity on Earth. You are in for a lecture my friend.

I keep peaking back at this thread, Waiting to jump into some intelligent discussion

I have never seen a 19 page thread filled with so much BS, speculation, and misinformation.

What is happened to airliners.net?

jfklganyc wrote:

I keep peaking back at this thread, Waiting to jump into some intelligent discussion

I have never seen a 19 page thread filled with so much BS, speculation, and misinformation.

What is happened to airliners.net?

It’s become like sports forums. My team this my team that. But I agree this is actually very easy. Ready. We have a plane that we already fly and pilots are trained on. We have the correct focus city geography. We have a good product with mint.
Let’s fly it where we can make money and help build up our network........THE END.

Pbb152 wrote:

Fargo wrote:

Bluewho wrote:

It’s something I have found interesting as well. Delta is great no doubt but why there is this need to push everyone else down is amazing to me. Just be happy with your favorite airline and move on.

JetBlue can’t and most likely will never match Delta it’s also a 19year old playing with much much older airlines. They already have the fleets and mega hubs and joint ventures. It’s like looking at a college kid and saying, why don’t you have a home a new car two kids the Disney vacation club and your retirement funded. And if you don’t have those things obviously you have failed. Historically speaking jetblue has actually done very very well yet it’s always attacked. Yeah it has issues and for the first time they actually acknowledged it at the all hands meeting.

We all want to make jetblue into our image of what it should be when it’s still pretty much the same east coast airline catering to where the people of NY and now Boston and FLL want to go. Yeah they have changed but it’s to complete. You don’t see them opening up a hub in MCI with RJs feeding the operation. Let jetblue be jetblue and Delta be Delta.

Nail on the head. I like DL, but that said, they are wasting their time in BOS as far as I'm concerned.

Oh no! jumbojet is going to tell you how wrong you are very soon. His life revolves around DL and he will not be told that DL isn’t the greatest entity on Earth. You are in for a lecture my friend.

Nah, I am done with this thread until FACTS emerge and PROOF shows how B6 is going to cause upheaval and disruption in the LON business class market. Until that time, see JFKLGANYC's post directly above mine. It is the most intelligent and accurate post in this thread to date.

Midwestindy wrote:

I doubt it is that simple....

I worked for a large company based in the Northeast(not listed), and when I worked there we had about 4-6 Preferred Carriers(WN/B6/AC/AM/AS/e.t.c) and 3 "Most Preferred Carriers(AA/DL/UA)." While my former company wasn't based in BOS, you can bet they have a large presence there.

So, I highly doubt "nearly all" of your company's domestic travel is on B6. It just doesn't make sense for large multinational companies to have "nearly all" of their domestic travel on an airline like B6 since B6 doesn't serve a sizable amount of small-midsized markets.

All airlines show up on our search. We're allowed to use our airline of choice as long as we have a valid reason. For example: comparable price or non-stop vs connection. For example, my FF program of choice is UA (I also have DL) and on my last trip to India both LH and AF were significantly more expensive than BA so I had to fly with BA and miss out on a huge amount of points. In other words, once B6 enters the TATL market, if the others want "me" to continue to fly with them on routes that B6 flies, they'll have to price match. These firms didn't get to be so successful by allowing their employees to blow money on airplane tickets.

Bluewho wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

I keep peaking back at this thread, Waiting to jump into some intelligent discussion

I have never seen a 19 page thread filled with so much BS, speculation, and misinformation.

What is happened to airliners.net?

It’s become like sports forums. My team this my team that. But I agree this is actually very easy. Ready. We have a plane that we already fly and pilots are trained on. We have the correct focus city geography. We have a good product with mint.
Let’s fly it where we can make money and help build up our network........THE END.

This, by Bluewho. This sums it up. A very humble approach; nicely said.

MINT is a very good product, absolutely, but is it for everyone? No. Is Blue for everyone? No. Some will want you to believe otherwise. Some on here will want you to believe that Blue is the savior to the entire aviation industry, including Blues own executive team.

Will LON and other parts of Europe be a success? Time will tell but there are no guarantees. Europe is a completely different animal than anything else Blue has done. I have friends that work for Blue so I wish them success.

Have a nice day all

jumbojet wrote:

Bluewho wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

I keep peaking back at this thread, Waiting to jump into some intelligent discussion

I have never seen a 19 page thread filled with so much BS, speculation, and misinformation.

What is happened to airliners.net?

It’s become like sports forums. My team this my team that. But I agree this is actually very easy. Ready. We have a plane that we already fly and pilots are trained on. We have the correct focus city geography. We have a good product with mint.
Let’s fly it where we can make money and help build up our network........THE END.

This, by Bluewho. This sums it up. A very humble approach; nicely said.

MINT is a very good product, absolutely, but is it for everyone? No. Is Blue for everyone? No. Some will want you to believe otherwise.

Have a nice day all

Exactly. The funny thing is even if you work for one of the airlines you're defending, these companies will stop at nothing to save a buck and will lay you off in the blink of an eye if that's what it takes. They have zero allegiance to their employees.

We’re using “business travel” as one monolithic thing.

The reality is that there is a lot of segmentation in there.

For smaller companies like startups that are based in Boston/Cambridge/Somerville, my understanding is that B6 does very well with corporate contracts.

For the large companies and consulting firms, law firms, etc..., it is true that they don’t have much of a presence as a preferred airline. I work for one of them and for the US market, DL, AA and UA are preferred. B6 shows up in the search results and you can take it if none of the preferred airlines offer a direct flight / time that works. We travel to a lot of places around the world, so I don’t actually know anyone at my firm who uses B6 as his or her 1st choice preferred airline at my firm, but it is the second choice for many.

airbazar wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I doubt it is that simple....

I worked for a large company based in the Northeast(not listed), and when I worked there we had about 4-6 Preferred Carriers(WN/B6/AC/AM/AS/e.t.c) and 3 "Most Preferred Carriers(AA/DL/UA)." While my former company wasn't based in BOS, you can bet they have a large presence there.

So, I highly doubt "nearly all" of your company's domestic travel is on B6. It just doesn't make sense for large multinational companies to have "nearly all" of their domestic travel on an airline like B6 since B6 doesn't serve a sizable amount of small-midsized markets.

All airlines show up on our search. We're allowed to use our airline of choice as long as we have a valid reason. For example: comparable price or non-stop vs connection. For example, my FF program of choice is UA (I also have DL) and on my last trip to India both LH and AF were significantly more expensive than BA so I had to fly with BA and miss out on a huge amount of points. In other words, once B6 enters the TATL market, if the others want "me" to continue to fly with them on routes that B6 flies, they'll have to price match. These firms didn't get to be so successful by allowing their employees to blow money on airplane tickets.

Not all firms are like that, the Investment Banks and some of the large consulting firms have ridiculously lax travel policies, I have a few friends who book full fare C/J class on company dime.

At my old company we were "strongly encouraged" to use DL/AA/UA since they gave us the biggest discounts, even though WN/B6/AS were available and usually cheaper.

As alluded to above airlines like AS/WN/B6 generally appeal to small-midsized companies, but large multi-nationals generally have a leaning towards the US3.

jumbojet wrote:

Pbb152 wrote:

Fargo wrote:

Nail on the head. I like DL, but that said, they are wasting their time in BOS as far as I'm concerned.

Oh no! jumbojet is going to tell you how wrong you are very soon. His life revolves around DL and he will not be told that DL isn’t the greatest entity on Earth. You are in for a lecture my friend.

Nah, I am done with this thread until FACTS emerge and PROOF shows how B6 is going to cause upheaval and disruption in the LON business class market. Until that time, see JFKLGANYC's post directly above mine. It is the most intelligent and accurate post in this thread to date.

They can’t provide FACTS that Jetblue will cause upheaval because they haven’t started service yet. But you seem very scared. You have invested your time on about 20 posts talking about how they are going to fail. Why are you so scared?

jumbojet wrote:

Bluewho wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

I keep peaking back at this thread, Waiting to jump into some intelligent discussion

I have never seen a 19 page thread filled with so much BS, speculation, and misinformation.

What is happened to airliners.net?

It’s become like sports forums. My team this my team that. But I agree this is actually very easy. Ready. We have a plane that we already fly and pilots are trained on. We have the correct focus city geography. We have a good product with mint.
Let’s fly it where we can make money and help build up our network........THE END.

This, by Bluewho. This sums it up. A very humble approach; nicely said.

MINT is a very good product, absolutely, but is it for everyone? No. Is Blue for everyone? No. Some will want you to believe otherwise. Some on here will want you to believe that Blue is the savior to the entire aviation industry, including Blues own executive team.

Will LON and other parts of Europe be a success? Time will tell but there are no guarantees. Europe is a completely different animal than anything else Blue has done. I have friends that work for Blue so I wish them success.

Have a nice day all

Maybe you can learn from him and be humble for once in your life. But none of us are expecting that.

jumbojet wrote:

Pbb152 wrote:

Fargo wrote:

Nail on the head. I like DL, but that said, they are wasting their time in BOS as far as I'm concerned.

Oh no! jumbojet is going to tell you how wrong you are very soon. His life revolves around DL and he will not be told that DL isn’t the greatest entity on Earth. You are in for a lecture my friend.

Nah, I am done with this thread until FACTS emerge and PROOF shows how B6 is going to cause upheaval and disruption in the LON business class market. Until that time, see JFKLGANYC's post directly above mine. It is the most intelligent and accurate post in this thread to date.

Sad that you find it intelligent when he couldn’t even use proper 3rd grade grammar. But that is further evidence of your lack of intelligence. Carry on with your bizarre infatuation with DL.

jfklganyc wrote:

I keep peaking back at this thread, Waiting to jump into some intelligent discussion

I have never seen a 19 page thread filled with so much BS, speculation, and misinformation.

What is happened to airliners.net?

you are right. I think I am part of the problem, sorry!

Midwestindy wrote:

airbazar wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I doubt it is that simple....

I worked for a large company based in the Northeast(not listed), and when I worked there we had about 4-6 Preferred Carriers(WN/B6/AC/AM/AS/e.t.c) and 3 "Most Preferred Carriers(AA/DL/UA)." While my former company wasn't based in BOS, you can bet they have a large presence there.

So, I highly doubt "nearly all" of your company's domestic travel is on B6. It just doesn't make sense for large multinational companies to have "nearly all" of their domestic travel on an airline like B6 since B6 doesn't serve a sizable amount of small-midsized markets.

All airlines show up on our search. We're allowed to use our airline of choice as long as we have a valid reason. For example: comparable price or non-stop vs connection. For example, my FF program of choice is UA (I also have DL) and on my last trip to India both LH and AF were significantly more expensive than BA so I had to fly with BA and miss out on a huge amount of points. In other words, once B6 enters the TATL market, if the others want "me" to continue to fly with them on routes that B6 flies, they'll have to price match. These firms didn't get to be so successful by allowing their employees to blow money on airplane tickets.

Not all firms are like that, the Investment Banks and some of the large consulting firms have ridiculously lax travel policies, I have a few friends who book full fare C/J class on company dime.

At my old company we were "strongly encouraged" to use DL/AA/UA since they gave us the biggest discounts, even though WN/B6/AS were available and usually cheaper.

As alluded to above airlines like AS/WN/B6 generally appeal to small-midsized companies, but large multi-nationals generally have a leaning towards the US3.

that's interesting, I'm from a medium sized NYC wall street company that does a lot of international travel. We are also under the same type of policy where you have to pick the cheapest or close to the cheapest. We also allow J purchases on transcon routes, so we are definitely not the cheapest when it comes to corporate travel policy. I would've expected most wall street company to be like my or airbazar's.

For us at least, B6 flies to everywhere we need to go domestically, although not offering competitive schedule in certain cases like ORD. I would imagine once B6 start flying to London and Dublin, we will do a lot more business with them. Right now, a lot of people use them domestically.

And I think there is also a big difference between road warriors and people who travel once in a while. In my company, I would guess the overwhelming majority of travel is done by people that fly corporately at most once a month. For them, B6's OTP issues and lack of options to middle of the country is not as much of an issue, since they generally think of B6 as the airline that flies to a lot of great leisure locations with flyfi, seatback tv and most leg room rather than the airline that can't operate on schedule. I've honestly never heard anyone say a bad word about flying with B6

I wanted to emphasize the leisure part of it for a reason. A lot of people in these wall street firms have relatives or second homes in South Florida. So, B6's presence to PBI/FLL/RSW is a huge incentive for people to take them. Especially for the people that live in westchester and Connecticut, B6's presence out of HPN is a huge deal for a lot of people.

And I think that once B6 start flying to London, they are going to be able to get a lot more of these big wall street firms add them to the search results since they do care about costs. And they will also be able to get more ff and credit card holders once they do that. A lot of people pick airlines based on who they flew internationally with through work, since they get a lot of miles quickly that way.

tphuang wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

I keep peaking back at this thread, Waiting to jump into some intelligent discussion

I have never seen a 19 page thread filled with so much BS, speculation, and misinformation.

What is happened to airliners.net?

you are right. I think I am part of the problem, sorry!

No, you are not the problem at all. The problem is the DL fanboys. They are a sad sack. With jumbojet as their leader.

Pbb152 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

I keep peaking back at this thread, Waiting to jump into some intelligent discussion

I have never seen a 19 page thread filled with so much BS, speculation, and misinformation.

What is happened to airliners.net?

you are right. I think I am part of the problem, sorry!

No, you are not the problem at all. The problem is the DL fanboys. They are a sad sack. With jumbojet as their leader.

It's funny, from what I read on here:
Everything B6 does = failure.
Everything DL does = excellence.
Every time DL copies B6 = silence.

As for Jumbojet, his hatred for B6 probably started when they wouldn't give him a free upgrade to an extra legroom seat or they wouldn't give him a fourth bag of blue chips.

Leftseatpusher wrote:

Pbb152 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

you are right. I think I am part of the problem, sorry!

No, you are not the problem at all. The problem is the DL fanboys. They are a sad sack. With jumbojet as their leader.

It's funny, from what I read on here:
Everything B6 does = failure.
Everything DL does = excellence.
Every time DL copies B6 = silence.

As for Jumbojet, his hatred for B6 probably started when they wouldn't give him a free upgrade to an extra legroom seat or they wouldn't give him a fourth bag of blue chips.

Yup. The DL fanboys on this site are quite comical though. Give them credit. They have fallen for the fact that DL doesn’t care about anything other than separating money from their wallets. Their obsession is funny.

Leftseatpusher wrote:

Pbb152 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

you are right. I think I am part of the problem, sorry!

No, you are not the problem at all. The problem is the DL fanboys. They are a sad sack. With jumbojet as their leader.

It's funny, from what I read on here:
Everything B6 does = failure.
Everything DL does = excellence.
Every time DL copies B6 = silence.

As for Jumbojet, his hatred for B6 probably started when they wouldn't give him a free upgrade to an extra legroom seat or they wouldn't give him a fourth bag of blue chips.

I don’t think jumbojet has even flown in his life. In another thread he claimed to be a 49 year old NYPD cop. But yet he talks about traveling the world in business class. Funny, I’ve never known the NYPD to have to send their cops all over the world in business class. I think he is a 13 year old kid who has watched too many YouTube videos and passes off other people’s experiences as his own.

Not really anything wrong with having a favorite airline, but when you start dissing every other airline and make outlandish claims then it isn't ok. DL has bad travel reviews like every other airline. DL has delayed flights, cancelled flights, denied boarding, etc. just like every other airline.

I seriously think a certain group just likes DL because they have in seat video on a large part of their fleet. I'm not dogging DL, I've flown then several times and they are fine, just not some company sent down from Heaven who can do no wrong.

Forgot to add... I wish JB the best of luck. It can never ever be bad to have more choice for the flying public. And in my opinion, Mint is just as good as the big three's business class for a 6-7 hour flight.

DDR wrote:

Not really anything wrong with having a favorite airline, but when you start dissing every other airline and make outlandish claims then it isn't ok. DL has bad travel reviews like every other airline. DL has delayed flights, cancelled flights, denied boarding, etc. just like every other airline.

I seriously think a certain group just likes DL because they have in seat video on a large part of their fleet. I'm not dogging DL, I've flown then several times and they are fine, just not some company sent down from Heaven who can do no wrong.

Omg, you will be stricken down for not falling on the floor praising DL. Do yourself a favor and say a prayer because you are cursed. Ask jumbojet about the amazing A220 experience. He glows about a window in the toilet like it’s walking on the moon. Oh, but he travels first class and just has to go see the toilets in coach. His stories always untangle.

Pbb152 wrote:

DDR wrote:

Not really anything wrong with having a favorite airline, but when you start dissing every other airline and make outlandish claims then it isn't ok. DL has bad travel reviews like every other airline. DL has delayed flights, cancelled flights, denied boarding, etc. just like every other airline.

I seriously think a certain group just likes DL because they have in seat video on a large part of their fleet. I'm not dogging DL, I've flown then several times and they are fine, just not some company sent down from Heaven who can do no wrong.

Omg, you will be stricken down for not falling on the floor praising DL. Do yourself a favor and say a prayer because you are cursed. Ask jumbojet about the amazing A220 experience. He glows about a window in the toilet like it’s walking on the moon.

Yea, I'm doomed. I will have to face towards ATL, get down on my knees and pray for forgiveness.

So they didn't announce which London airport they will fly to?

I am gonna guess LGW.

If I were to fly B6 to Europe my concern wld be getting back home to the U.S. during inclement weather in the summer and winter. Their schedules go down hill quickly if weather conditions aren't perfect on the east coast.

Not sure if this has been brought up already (long thread), but how does the DL/B6 situation in Boston compare to the AS/DL situation out in Seattle? Does DL perform better in Seattle vs AS than they do in Boston vs. B6?

I just posted a video about this development on my YouTube channel. It won’t be going into all of the really technical stuff like we all see on here, but it’s a good video nonetheless:
https://youtu.be/7UQ0k6es_A4

B752OS wrote:

Not sure if this has been brought up already (long thread), but how does the DL/B6 situation in Boston compare to the AS/DL situation out in Seattle? Does DL perform better in Seattle vs AS than they do in Boston vs. B6?

I’d also like a discussion on this. But having worked at both AS and B6, I can provide an anecdotal contribution.
AS mgmt would tell us over and over that DL was a threat to our existence. But they also told us that Delta hasn’t been successful in stealing any market share as of yet (hard to believe though). AS is increasing regional feed to battle Delta while mainline growth has been basically stagnate. They play a very defensive game.
My time here at Jetblue, mgmt has has been very concerned about Delta, but doesn’t seem as worried as AS was. They are also way more aggressive in attacking Delta than AS ever was. Which, as a pilot, means more career progression and seniority for me.
Back to your question on what city DL performs better in- I would say, Delta has been extremely successful in building their hub in SEA. In BOS, Delta seems relatively content, but success has been a lot more tougher to come by. Also, B6 going after their bread and butter TATL flights, which opens up a whole new front to the battle. AS provides no competition to DL (except codeshares) on their international flights.
So to sum it up- Delta does better in SEA.

B752OS wrote:

Not sure if this has been brought up already (long thread), but how does the DL/B6 situation in Boston compare to the AS/DL situation out in Seattle? Does DL perform better in Seattle vs AS than they do in Boston vs. B6?

Imo, Seattle is a little different from Boston, because it's a less fragmented market. AA and even UA are still quite strong in BOS from what I can see, but they are really minor players in SEA. So while DL does have a larger market share in Seattle and probably decent point of sale, they are still quite a way behind AS in pricing power. B6 is not as strong in Boston as AS is in Seattle. Nor does it have the history that AS has in its home city. But in a way, it makes DL's path to win over Boston harder since people who may not want to fly B6 (like due to lack of international flights or OTP issues) have other choices like AA. Boston is surrounded by AA hubs, which is not the case for Seattle.

On the second question, it would seem to me that they perform better in Seattle than Boston, but they have also been building up Seattle for longer.

What B6 needs to do in Boston basically:
1) improve OTP issues
2) Fly to enough European locations + get more international partners
3) connect more dots domestically

Pbb152 wrote:

It’s really sad how all the DL fanboys have to try to use this and many other threads as a weird dick swinging contest. Bizarre lot you DL fanboys are.

They’re exhausting.

tphuang wrote:

B752OS wrote:

Not sure if this has been brought up already (long thread), but how does the DL/B6 situation in Boston compare to the AS/DL situation out in Seattle? Does DL perform better in Seattle vs AS than they do in Boston vs. B6?

Imo, Seattle is a little different from Boston, because it's a less fragmented market. AA and even UA are still quite strong in BOS from what I can see, but they are really minor players in SEA. So while DL does have a larger market share in Seattle and probably decent point of sale, they are still quite a way behind AS in pricing power. B6 is not as strong in Boston as AS is in Seattle. Nor does it have the history that AS has in its home city. But in a way, it makes DL's path to win over Boston harder since people who may not want to fly B6 (like due to lack of international flights or OTP issues) have other choices like AA. Boston is surrounded by AA hubs, which is not the case for Seattle.

On the second question, it would seem to me that they perform better in Seattle than Boston, but they have also been building up Seattle for longer.

What B6 needs to do in Boston basically:
1) improve OTP issues
2) Fly to enough European locations + get more international partners
3) connect more dots domestically

That's a very good point regarding AA in Boston vs. AA in Seattle - Boston has significantly more service on AA than Seattle does. I just looked and between LAX/PHX/DFW/MIA/PHL/JFK/ORD, Boston has almost 3 times the number of flights than Seattle. Would you say Boston is one of the more fragmented air markets in the US?

Pbb152 wrote:

I don’t think jumbojet has even flown in his life. In another thread he claimed to be a 49 year old NYPD cop. But yet he talks about traveling the world in business class. Funny, I’ve never known the NYPD to have to send their cops all over the world in business class. I think he is a 13 year old kid who has watched too many YouTube videos and passes off other people’s experiences as his own.

Pbb152 wrote:

you will be stricken down for not falling on the floor praising DL. Do yourself a favor and say a prayer because you are cursed. Ask jumbojet about the amazing A220 experience. He glows about a window in the toilet like it’s walking on the moon. Oh, but he travels first class and just has to go see the toilets in coach. His stories always untangle.

And this is exactly why many people have left a.net. This used to be a place where all could come to learn from those posters whose breath and depth of airline industry knowledge was impressive. But personal attacks such as this, fanboyishness, constantly running to the moderators to get people banned when they say something against someones favorite airline....who wants to waste their time here anymore?

tphuang wrote:

Keep ignoring the importance of flying everywhere for business travelers, including flights to their Florida homes, other places they need to go for various reasons because business traveler apparently only fly when their company is paying.

I wish B6 all the best on their new trans-Atlantic endeavors. It will be exciting for passengers to earn/burn miles to new places, and for employees to go flying overseas without having to hitch a ride on another carrier. But truth be told, I've never flown on B6 once. Why? They simply don't go to the places I need to fly the most... TVC, CVG, ORF. When flying out of Boston, either business or leisure, I'm on DL or AA. Within the area, I'm usually on 9K. So for me, B6 isn't able to take me to the places I need to go. But I wish them the best of luck anyways.

B752OS wrote:

tphuang wrote:

B752OS wrote:

Not sure if this has been brought up already (long thread), but how does the DL/B6 situation in Boston compare to the AS/DL situation out in Seattle? Does DL perform better in Seattle vs AS than they do in Boston vs. B6?

Imo, Seattle is a little different from Boston, because it's a less fragmented market. AA and even UA are still quite strong in BOS from what I can see, but they are really minor players in SEA. So while DL does have a larger market share in Seattle and probably decent point of sale, they are still quite a way behind AS in pricing power. B6 is not as strong in Boston as AS is in Seattle. Nor does it have the history that AS has in its home city. But in a way, it makes DL's path to win over Boston harder since people who may not want to fly B6 (like due to lack of international flights or OTP issues) have other choices like AA. Boston is surrounded by AA hubs, which is not the case for Seattle.
posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=21279897
On the second question, it would seem to me that they perform better in Seattle than Boston, but they have also been building up Seattle for longer.

What B6 needs to do in Boston basically:
1) improve OTP issues
2) Fly to enough European locations + get more international partners
3) connect more dots domestically

That's a very good point regarding AA in Boston vs. AA in Seattle - Boston has significantly more service on AA than Seattle does. I just looked and between LAX/PHX/DFW/MIA/PHL/JFK/ORD, Boston has almost 3 times the number of flights than Seattle. Would you say Boston is one of the more fragmented air markets in the US?

It has to be. Fragmented normally means more competition and lower prices. I would LAX is up there and same with NYC, MCO and FLL/MIA. But Boston at the moment seems to be the most competitive.

AA has so much potential at BOS if it was willing to stick with some of the non-hub routes.

tphuang wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

airbazar wrote:

All airlines show up on our search. We're allowed to use our airline of choice as long as we have a valid reason. For example: comparable price or non-stop vs connection. For example, my FF program of choice is UA (I also have DL) and on my last trip to India both LH and AF were significantly more expensive than BA so I had to fly with BA and miss out on a huge amount of points. In other words, once B6 enters the TATL market, if the others want "me" to continue to fly with them on routes that B6 flies, they'll have to price match. These firms didn't get to be so successful by allowing their employees to blow money on airplane tickets.

Not all firms are like that, the Investment Banks and some of the large consulting firms have ridiculously lax travel policies, I have a few friends who book full fare C/J class on company dime.

At my old company we were "strongly encouraged" to use DL/AA/UA since they gave us the biggest discounts, even though WN/B6/AS were available and usually cheaper.

As alluded to above airlines like AS/WN/B6 generally appeal to small-midsized companies, but large multi-nationals generally have a leaning towards the US3.

that's interesting, I'm from a medium sized NYC wall street company that does a lot of international travel. We are also under the same type of policy where you have to pick the cheapest or close to the cheapest. We also allow J purchases on transcon routes, so we are definitely not the cheapest when it comes to corporate travel policy. I would've expected most wall street company to be like my or airbazar's.

For us at least, B6 flies to everywhere we need to go domestically, although not offering competitive schedule in certain cases like ORD. I would imagine once B6 start flying to London and Dublin, we will do a lot more business with them. Right now, a lot of people use them domestically.

And I think there is also a big difference between road warriors and people who travel once in a while. In my company, I would guess the overwhelming majority of travel is done by people that fly corporately at most once a month. For them, B6's OTP issues and lack of options to middle of the country is not as much of an issue, since they generally think of B6 as the airline that flies to a lot of great leisure locations with flyfi, seatback tv and most leg room rather than the airline that can't operate on schedule. I've honestly never heard anyone say a bad word about flying with B6

I wanted to emphasize the leisure part of it for a reason. A lot of people in these wall street firms have relatives or second homes in South Florida. So, B6's presence to PBI/FLL/RSW is a huge incentive for people to take them. Especially for the people that live in westchester and Connecticut, B6's presence out of HPN is a huge deal for a lot of people.

And I think that once B6 start flying to London, they are going to be able to get a lot more of these big wall street firms add them to the search results since they do care about costs. And they will also be able to get more ff and credit card holders once they do that. A lot of people pick airlines based on who they flew internationally with through work, since they get a lot of miles quickly that way.

I think part of the reasoning for choosing the US3 domestically, is that they provide huge discounts for int'l.

For example for one-way travel in Y one week in advance, EWR-FRA
$2942 UA.com
$1983 through company

However, I'd argue that service to HPN, isn't that much of a bonus considering the overall size and scope of B6 service at HPN.

Midwestindy wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Not all firms are like that, the Investment Banks and some of the large consulting firms have ridiculously lax travel policies, I have a few friends who book full fare C/J class on company dime.

At my old company we were "strongly encouraged" to use DL/AA/UA since they gave us the biggest discounts, even though WN/B6/AS were available and usually cheaper.

As alluded to above airlines like AS/WN/B6 generally appeal to small-midsized companies, but large multi-nationals generally have a leaning towards the US3.

that's interesting, I'm from a medium sized NYC wall street company that does a lot of international travel. We are also under the same type of policy where you have to pick the cheapest or close to the cheapest. We also allow J purchases on transcon routes, so we are definitely not the cheapest when it comes to corporate travel policy. I would've expected most wall street company to be like my or airbazar's.

For us at least, B6 flies to everywhere we need to go domestically, although not offering competitive schedule in certain cases like ORD. I would imagine once B6 start flying to London and Dublin, we will do a lot more business with them. Right now, a lot of people use them domestically.

And I think there is also a big difference between road warriors and people who travel once in a while. In my company, I would guess the overwhelming majority of travel is done by people that fly corporately at most once a month. For them, B6's OTP issues and lack of options to middle of the country is not as much of an issue, since they generally think of B6 as the airline that flies to a lot of great leisure locations with flyfi, seatback tv and most leg room rather than the airline that can't operate on schedule. I've honestly never heard anyone say a bad word about flying with B6

I wanted to emphasize the leisure part of it for a reason. A lot of people in these wall street firms have relatives or second homes in South Florida. So, B6's presence to PBI/FLL/RSW is a huge incentive for people to take them. Especially for the people that live in westchester and Connecticut, B6's presence out of HPN is a huge deal for a lot of people.

And I think that once B6 start flying to London, they are going to be able to get a lot more of these big wall street firms add them to the search results since they do care about costs. And they will also be able to get more ff and credit card holders once they do that. A lot of people pick airlines based on who they flew internationally with through work, since they get a lot of miles quickly that way.

I think part of the reasoning for choosing the US3 domestically, is that they provide huge discounts for int'l.

For example for one-way travel in Y one week in advance, EWR-FRA
$2942 UA.com
$1983 through company

However, I'd argue that service to HPN, isn't that much of a bonus considering the overall size and scope of B6 service at HPN.

If that's the case, then that's definitely a market B6 can lower prices on! I can't wait for the one/way Y prices to come down internationally.

tphuang wrote:

that's interesting, I'm from a medium sized NYC wall street company that does a lot of international travel. We are also under the same type of policy where you have to pick the cheapest or close to the cheapest. We also allow J purchases on transcon routes, so we are definitely not the cheapest when it comes to corporate travel policy. I would've expected most wall street company to be like my or airbazar's.

It basically comes down to whether you can pass on the cost of the flight, directly to your clients or not.

tlecam wrote:

We’re using “business travel” as one monolithic thing.
The reality is that there is a lot of segmentation in there.

Exactly.
At the bottom end of the spectrum there's my wife's company which is a very small niche company where she has to travel all over the world, from Uruguay to San Francisco to Milan and they only pay for the absolute lowest prices. The poor woman has a business trip to Singapore next month and they wouldn't even pay for premium economy so she's stuck on an 10-abreast EK 77W because that was the cheapest price.