FlyinRabbit88 wrote:

What are your guesses...

- Europe Announcement (Finally!!)
-Airbus A321LR/XLR order
- More flights to the DR?
- New destinations into central US?
- other...

If it's Europe, here's my list of routes in order of likelihood: Dublin, London Gatwick, Manchester, and I'd say BRU is a possibility depending on range. I'm assuming Germany and Paris are probably a little longer than they want to start with.

PHLspecial wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

airliners.net response: B6 makes DTW its new focus city, hires Shinola consultants to get them to improve their on-time stats

No no a.net is calling for B6 to fail at any moment. Don't worry there will be two more threads talking about B6 going under from now to April 10th

There are no guarantees Blue will be successful in Europe. This is a lot different than MINT LAX/SFO. For starters, they will definitely need to improve their daily operations and on-time ratings. Haynes even said himself that DL/AA/UA are very powerful along with their JV's across the pond and that B6 needs to be careful.

That said, I am actually all for B6 to Europe as I am the individual who buys business class seats and travels on my own dime. If B6 drives down the cost of a business class ticket to Europe, than hats off to them...Doesnt mean I would ever fly them but I will tip my hat to them from the cabin of my DL A330 if they can save me a thousand or so off my Delta One ticket.

Side note, perfect weather on the east coast. 15% of B6 flights delayed. Not very good.

Why would they have a big party in NYC to announce BOS LHR service?

Makes no sense.

My bet is JFK/BOS London. I have also heard AMS from two different places.

They are putting their toes in the pond

jfklganyc wrote:

Why would they have a big party in NYC to announce BOS LHR service?

Makes no sense.

My bet is JFK/BOS London. I have also heard AMS from two different places.

They are putting their toes in the pond

Where are the AMS slots coming from? DOT making DL/KLM give some up? If so, can they give B6 the worst times imaginable?

JFK/BOS to London. And A321XLR's. From a casual conversation I had recently.

buzzard302 wrote:

JFK/BOS to London. And A321XLR's. From a casual conversation I had recently.

Let me guess, you were speaking to a pilot near a water fountain?

jumbojet wrote:

PHLspecial wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

airliners.net response: B6 makes DTW its new focus city, hires Shinola consultants to get them to improve their on-time stats

No no a.net is calling for B6 to fail at any moment. Don't worry there will be two more threads talking about B6 going under from now to April 10th

There are no guarantees Blue will be successful in Europe. This is a lot different than MINT LAX/SFO. For starters, they will definitely need to improve their daily operations and on-time ratings. Haynes even said himself that DL/AA/UA are very powerful along with their JV's across the pond and that B6 needs to be careful.

That said, I am actually all for B6 to Europe as I am the individual who buys business class seats and travels on my own dime. If B6 drives down the cost of a business class ticket to Europe, than hats off to them...Doesnt mean I would ever fly them but I will tip my hat to them from the cabin of my DL A330 if they can save me a thousand or so off my Delta One ticket.

Side note, perfect weather on the east coast. 15% of B6 flights delayed. Not very good.

btw I actually agree with you there is no guarantee they will be successful in Europe. But here is the thing, they have to go there regardless. It's too large of a market not to go into if they want to be the top dog in BOS. They loose a lot of money on all these new business markets out of BOS like LGA, ATL and MSP. But since the customers demand it, they need to do it. Let's just say I don't think they will loose anywhere near the amount of money on BOS-LHR that they do on BOS-ATL.

jfklganyc wrote:

Why would they have a big party in NYC to announce BOS LHR service?

Makes no sense.

My bet is JFK/BOS London. I have also heard AMS from two different places.

They are putting their toes in the pond

Exactly, imo there is no way they go into BOS-LHR and not also go with JFK. In fact, I think it's far more likely they do well starting off at JFK vs BOS. There is basically no trunk markets out of NYC that B6 cannot fill 2 flights full and be profitable.

And with AA continuing to cut back in NYC, this is a good time for B6 to expand its JFK offerings and get some more corporate contracts and such.

I'm a little surprised at all the AMS rumors. Seems to be aimed squarely at DL.

Regardless of the whats and where's of the announcement, you know that Blue is going to put out a very impressive Europe MINT cabin that will undoubtedly rival what the big US3 have.

jfklganyc wrote:

unusualattitude wrote:

SoCalFlyer wrote:

There were no emails for “help” and certainly not several. That is 100% false. The only email they sent out was for reserve augmentation, meaning due to the IROP they’re low on RSVs and that is voluntary if people choose to sign up and make double pay. I’m sure other carriers have something similar. Please don’t spread fake news.

There were emails for help, I can show them to you if you like. But that’s besides the point and you know it.

Thank you!

The guy is blatantly lying or uninformed. Two emails this morning...one local, one from HQ asking for help

I’ve worked for jetblue for 12years. I didn’t see any email begging for help, but hey that’s me

SoCalFlyer wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

unusualattitude wrote:

There were emails for help, I can show them to you if you like. But that’s besides the point and you know it.

Thank you!

The guy is blatantly lying or uninformed. Two emails this morning...one local, one from HQ asking for help

I’ve worked for jetblue for 12years. I didn’t see any email begging for help, but hey that’s me

Are you a pilot?

http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf103/600.pdf This docket literally says that B6 wants in to LHR and AMS.

winstonavgeek wrote:

http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf103/600.pdf This docket literally says that B6 wants in to LHR and AMS.

Yet, Delta cannot have it both ways. It cannot seek Department assistance for additional access at Haneda while seeking to deny it to JetBlue at LHR and AMS.

SoCalFlyer wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

unusualattitude wrote:

There were emails for help, I can show them to you if you like. But that’s besides the point and you know it.

Thank you!

The guy is blatantly lying or uninformed. Two emails this morning...one local, one from HQ asking for help

I’ve worked for jetblue for 12years. I didn’t see any email begging for help, but hey that’s me

A friend has had 11 RSA emails, one from system chief, and one from NY chief all asking for help in the last 2 days. 7 on Friday.

winstonavgeek wrote:

http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf103/600.pdf This docket literally says that B6 wants in to LHR and AMS.

Thanks for sharing.

Dieuwer wrote:

winstonavgeek wrote:

http://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf103/600.pdf This docket literally says that B6 wants in to LHR and AMS.

Yet, Delta cannot have it both ways. It cannot seek Department assistance for additional access at Haneda while seeking to deny it to JetBlue at LHR and AMS.

Jetblue is clearly playing hardball here. The use of DL’s analogy regarding LHR/HND is especially powerful.

tphuang wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

PHLspecial wrote:

No no a.net is calling for B6 to fail at any moment. Don't worry there will be two more threads talking about B6 going under from now to April 10th

There are no guarantees Blue will be successful in Europe. This is a lot different than MINT LAX/SFO. For starters, they will definitely need to improve their daily operations and on-time ratings. Haynes even said himself that DL/AA/UA are very powerful along with their JV's across the pond and that B6 needs to be careful.

That said, I am actually all for B6 to Europe as I am the individual who buys business class seats and travels on my own dime. If B6 drives down the cost of a business class ticket to Europe, than hats off to them...Doesnt mean I would ever fly them but I will tip my hat to them from the cabin of my DL A330 if they can save me a thousand or so off my Delta One ticket.

Side note, perfect weather on the east coast. 15% of B6 flights delayed. Not very good.

btw I actually agree with you there is no guarantee they will be successful in Europe. But here is the thing, they have to go there regardless. It's too large of a market not to go into if they want to be the top dog in BOS. They loose a lot of money on all these new business markets out of BOS like LGA, ATL and MSP. But since the customers demand it, they need to do it. Let's just say I don't think they will loose anywhere near the amount of money on BOS-LHR that they do on BOS-ATL.

jfklganyc wrote:

Why would they have a big party in NYC to announce BOS LHR service?

Makes no sense.

My bet is JFK/BOS London. I have also heard AMS from two different places.

They are putting their toes in the pond

Exactly, imo there is no way they go into BOS-LHR and not also go with JFK. In fact, I think it's far more likely they do well starting off at JFK vs BOS. There is basically no trunk markets out of NYC that B6 cannot fill 2 flights full and be profitable.

And with AA continuing to cut back in NYC, this is a good time for B6 to expand its JFK offerings and get some more corporate contracts and such.

I'm a little surprised at all the AMS rumors. Seems to be aimed squarely at DL.

Indeed. Although AMS is a wonderful city, I did not see it as being the first or second European city B6 would enter. This is clearly aimed at poking DL, and the commentary on DL’s HND application just furthers that notion.

I have to admit this is going to be more interesting than I ever thought

TheLunchbox wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Hardly. A handful of snowflakes are swirling down gently in the Boston area. No nothing "snowstorm" or "Snowmageddon". But yes, B6 cancelled a boatload of flights. Moral of the story: Don't fly JetBlue in wintertime.

They don’t have enough crew to operate. Several emails went out for “help.”

Bad week to give people $75 in profit sharing. Bad week

Profit sharing doesn't bother me one bit. I focus on a good salary and doing my job. I feel fortunate in my position. Do you work for JetBlue?

Really? You do know that they slashed the profit sharing formula 2 years ago? You don’t find it disingenuous that they prefaced this year’s prfofit sharing information about the 8% raise driven to everyone the year before. They had to remind employees about the raise because of the paltry profit sharing.

If JetBlue are going to target Delta over the other two US3 (as early indications show), it means the first four cities should be:
London Heathrow
Paris Charles de Gaulle
Amsterdam Schiphol
Manchester

Regarding destinations in Europe - Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam and Frankfurt are benefiting from financial (but not only) companies relocating from London per Brexit so higher demand for them from the US should be expected.

Planeboy17 wrote:

TheLunchbox wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

They don’t have enough crew to operate. Several emails went out for “help.”

Bad week to give people $75 in profit sharing. Bad week

Profit sharing doesn't bother me one bit. I focus on a good salary and doing my job. I feel fortunate in my position. Do you work for JetBlue?

Really? You do know that they slashed the profit sharing formula 2 years ago? You don’t find it disingenuous that they prefaced this year’s prfofit sharing information about the 8% raise driven to everyone the year before. They had to remind employees about the raise because of the paltry profit sharing.

But a salary increase for everyone, especially 8% when inflation is barely 2%, is much better than profit sharing. The raise stays and gets you a higher base for future increases. There can be profit sharing one year and then none for years.

SoCalFlyer wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

unusualattitude wrote:

There were emails for help, I can show them to you if you like. But that’s besides the point and you know it.

Thank you!

The guy is blatantly lying or uninformed. Two emails this morning...one local, one from HQ asking for help

I’ve worked for jetblue for 12years. I didn’t see any email begging for help, but hey that’s me

Not sure why you didn’t get the emails but there were 2 of them sent out yesterday just like the poster above stated.

Planeboy17 wrote:

TheLunchbox wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

They don’t have enough crew to operate. Several emails went out for “help.”

Bad week to give people $75 in profit sharing. Bad week

Profit sharing doesn't bother me one bit. I focus on a good salary and doing my job. I feel fortunate in my position. Do you work for JetBlue?

Really? You do know that they slashed the profit sharing formula 2 years ago? You don’t find it disingenuous that they prefaced this year’s prfofit sharing information about the 8% raise driven to everyone the year before. They had to remind employees about the raise because of the paltry profit sharing.

I'm well aware of the past profit sharings and the new formula they came up with. Part of me says they may end up tweaking it to be more of a moderate payout and part of me says they're keeping money close to their chest due to upcoming network changes, aircraft orders, Europe, etc. Could be completely inaccurate but part of me believes it. We'll see what they do with profit sharing. So much backlash this past year will probably bring about changes. I don't need a $10k check like Delta but more than $100 after taxes would be nice.

PHLspecial wrote:

BuildingMyBento wrote:

airliners.net response: B6 makes DTW its new focus city, hires Shinola consultants to get them to improve their on-time stats

No no a.net is calling for B6 to fail at any moment. Don't worry there will be two more threads talking about B6 going under from now to April 10th

Only two??

TheLunchbox wrote:

Planeboy17 wrote:

TheLunchbox wrote:

Profit sharing doesn't bother me one bit. I focus on a good salary and doing my job. I feel fortunate in my position. Do you work for JetBlue?

Really? You do know that they slashed the profit sharing formula 2 years ago? You don’t find it disingenuous that they prefaced this year’s prfofit sharing information about the 8% raise driven to everyone the year before. They had to remind employees about the raise because of the paltry profit sharing.

I'm well aware of the past profit sharings and the new formula they came up with. Part of me says they may end up tweaking it to be more of a moderate payout and part of me says they're keeping money close to their chest due to upcoming network changes, aircraft orders, Europe, etc. Could be completely inaccurate but part of me believes it. We'll see what they do with profit sharing. So much backlash this past year will probably bring about changes. I don't need a $10k check like Delta but more than $100 after taxes would be nice.

Not sure what your position is but there are Delta employees getting much more than 10k$. Also, I don’t NEED 10k or more but I’d certainly like to have it. Why can’t we have what Delta gets or at least close to it. We are, and have been a profitable airline and as much as I like and enjoy my job ,and do it very professionally, I feel like we as employees have been cheated.

Okay I get it. We'll see what's announced April 10th and maybe it'll shed light on what they've been up to and crewmember morale will change. Or not. Exciting times ahead regardless.

Article pointing to LHR & AMS

https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-is-try ... n-flights/

No-one is mentioning Dublin- why not? I think that post-Brexit and with a soft border it is going to become quite an important financial centre.

AMS is full. Not sure what slots they can get there. LHR is possible if they’re going to pay the going rate, but seems like a waste to acquire all those slots for narrowbody flights.

JetBlue could also in theory get some A220-100s in all-mint config and fly them to LCY. That would probably be more successfull than trying to make it in LHR

Did KLM come to Boston, in part, to gum up the works for JetBlue?

Word is they are going to fly to Liverpool. The airplane will be painted as a yellow submarine. Plane name SGT BLUEPEPPER

jetbluefan1 wrote:

[

Indeed. Although AMS is a wonderful city, I did not see it as being the first or second European city B6 would enter. This is clearly aimed at poking DL, and the commentary on DL’s HND application just furthers that notion.

I have to admit this is going to be more interesting than I ever thought

IF they were even able to get their hands on a AMS slot, its probably not going to be prime time. And if they did get into AMS, one A321 flight a day VS. the mega JV operation of DL/KLM, I would hardly call that a poke. I would call that barely a blip on the radar. Nope, I don't think DL/KLM really care about a single, or two, B6 flights a day into AMS. I say if B6 wants in that badly, let them have it. Whats the bid deal when its one or two narrow body planes? DL/KLM have to be flying close to 20 widebody planes a day into AMS. To me, this is akin to B6 BOS-ATL. Is this Interesting? I guess if your a hardcore JetBlue fan but if you think for one moment they are going to come in and disrupt a market that took decades to build up, your sadly mistaken. Rememeber Haynes own words; 'There are 3 powerful airlines across the Atlantic' and I will give you a hint, B6 isnt one of them, so I can see where all your excitement comes from. Yawn.

Now, an A220 or a A321 in an all business class cabin, with a prime time slot, that could make things a little interesting.

They are going to announce a 'Retro Jet' !!!!!

VS4ever wrote:

The 321 would be the right size aircraft for BHX route, but given the failures thus far and albeit the last one was PF I would put BHX in a 3rd or even 4th wave.

I'm not saying BHX is plausible but I don't think we can judge any market viability based on PF. PF failed because PF itself was a bad business, first and foremost. They also failed on CDG-BOS, remember?

jfklganyc wrote:

Why would they have a big party in NYC to announce BOS LHR service?

That's where their HQ is and generally speaking that's where all-hands meetings are held. This is not a route announcement party, it's an all-hands meeting. a.net just loves to blow stuff way out of proportion

tphuang wrote:

Exactly, imo there is no way they go into BOS-LHR and not also go with JFK. In fact, I think it's far more likely they do well starting off at JFK vs BOS.

I wouldn't be so sure. For starters with all the ATC delays in the NY area and congestion at LHR, operating A321's from LHR to JFK could be problematic. All that taxi time and holding in line to land eats into the range of the A321.
Then the competition from NYC is huge. The amount of Y seats dumped in this market only to cater to business pax with lots of frequencies is astronomical. Does B6 really need to start with 2 TATL gateways? Then there is the issue of slots at JFK. It's hard enough to find sots in LHR and AMS, it's even harder to find them when they have to match slots in JFK.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Indeed. Although AMS is a wonderful city, I did not see it as being the first or second European city B6 would enter. This is clearly aimed at poking DL, and the commentary on DL’s HND application just furthers that notion.

It's a large year round O&D market from BOS where DL/KL have a monopoly.

All I can say is, if B6 is really planning to announce LHR/CDG/AMS in April, get ready to buy because the fare war will be great for us consumers.
Just to give you an example, when DL announced BOS-LIS last year the peak summer fares dropped to $400 all included. $400 for a TATL ticket including all taxes, 1 checked back and seat reservation in July on a full service carrier like DL is unheard of.

B6<MT=?

Blueknows wrote:

B6<MT=?

I don’t see how these two could merge? U.K. ownership restrictions? I assume you’re talking about just the MT certificate for the U.K. airline vs the Thomas Cook Group parent company?

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thoma ... KKCN1PW0I9
PLANES AND SLOTS

jumbojet wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

[

Indeed. Although AMS is a wonderful city, I did not see it as being the first or second European city B6 would enter. This is clearly aimed at poking DL, and the commentary on DL’s HND application just furthers that notion.

I have to admit this is going to be more interesting than I ever thought

IF they were even able to get their hands on a AMS slot, its probably not going to be prime time. And if they did get into AMS, one A321 flight a day VS. the mega JV operation of DL/KLM, I would hardly call that a poke. I would call that barely a blip on the radar. Nope, I don't think DL/KLM really care about a single, or two, B6 flights a day into AMS. I say if B6 wants in that badly, let them have it. Whats the bid deal when its one or two narrow body planes? DL/KLM have to be flying close to 20 widebody planes a day into AMS. To me, this is akin to B6 BOS-ATL. Is this Interesting? I guess if your a hardcore JetBlue fan but if you think for one moment they are going to come in and disrupt a market that took decades to build up, your sadly mistaken. Rememeber Haynes own words; 'There are 3 powerful airlines across the Atlantic' and I will give you a hint, B6 isnt one of them, so I can see where all your excitement comes from. Yawn.

Now, an A220 or a A321 in an all business class cabin, with a prime time slot, that could make things a little interesting.

Do you realize how much declined revenue DL has suffered since B6 entered BOS-ATL and then BOS-MSP? If a B6 entrance into AMS would cause a similar loss, it would be disastrous for DL.

airbazar wrote:

[

tphuang wrote:

Exactly, imo there is no way they go into BOS-LHR and not also go with JFK. In fact, I think it's far more likely they do well starting off at JFK vs BOS.

I wouldn't be so sure. For starters with all the ATC delays in the NY area and congestion at LHR, operating A321's from LHR to JFK could be problematic. All that taxi time and holding in line to land eats into the range of the A321.
Then the competition from NYC is huge. The amount of Y seats dumped in this market only to cater to business pax with lots of frequencies is astronomical. Does B6 really need to start with 2 TATL gateways? Then there is the issue of slots at JFK. It's hard enough to find sots in LHR and AMS, it's even harder to find them when they have to match slots in JFK.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Indeed. Although AMS is a wonderful city, I did not see it as being the first or second European city B6 would enter. This is clearly aimed at poking DL, and the commentary on DL’s HND application just furthers that notion.

It's a large year round O&D market from BOS where DL/KL have a monopoly.

All I can say is, if B6 is really planning to announce LHR/CDG/AMS in April, get ready to buy because the fare war will be great for us consumers.
Just to give you an example, when DL announced BOS-LIS last year the peak summer fares dropped to $400 all included. $400 for a TATL ticket including all taxes, 1 checked back and seat reservation in July on a full service carrier like DL is unheard of.

B6 doesn't need 2 TATL gateways. BOS is the main TATL hub. JFK is serving O&D, which is huge. There are things B6 can do to get LHR slots aside from complaining. Remember, it sits on one of the most valuable real estate in America with the 2nd largest slot portfolio at JFK and the terminal management for the entire north terminal in the reconfigured JFK. There is a lot they can theoretically trade to get good slots at LHR if they choose to do so.

As for fare wars, that's a given when B6 enters any strong legacy hubs out of BOS. DL has been able to keep its operation to LHR afloat with exorbitant premium cabin pricing to overcome 60% LF. Let's see how well they do when J pricing drops to $2500 R/T.

Blueknows wrote:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thomas-cook-grp-outlook-idUKKCN1PW0I9
PLANES AND SLOTS

Hmm, do they have many slots at primary airports like LHR/CDG/AMS?

tphuang wrote:

Do you realize how much declined revenue DL has suffered since B6 entered BOS-ATL and then BOS-MSP? If a B6 entrance into AMS would cause a similar loss, it would be disastrous for DL.


B6 doesn't need 2 TATL gateways. BOS is the main TATL hub. JFK is serving O&D, which is huge. There are things B6 can do to get LHR slots aside from complaining. Remember, it sits on one of the most valuable real estate in America with the 2nd largest slot portfolio at JFK and the terminal management for the entire north terminal in the reconfigured JFK. There is a lot they can theoretically trade to get good slots at LHR if they choose to do so.

As for fare wars, that's a given when B6 enters any strong legacy hubs out of BOS. DL has been able to keep its operation to LHR afloat with exorbitant premium cabin pricing to overcome 60% LF. Let's see how well they do when J pricing drops to $2500 R/T.

Why dont you enlighten me as to how much DL's revenue has declined on BOS-ATL. While its entirely possible their revenue has declined somewhat, might I point out that B6 has dropped down to 3 E190's and 2 A320's on BOS-ATL. Heck, and they cant even fill those planes up! LOL.

Your living in a complete fantasy world if you think for one moment that B6 entering the AMS market would cause DL's finances to tank. LOL. Guess its time to remind you that DL is a very well oiled machine, much more so than B6. Delta is THE worlds most profitable airline. And your also forgetting how many passengers connect through AMS onto other European cities on KLM. Your living in a fantasy world my friend,

Your talking like B6 will be able to match what AA and DL have seat for seat going into LHR right off the bat. This isnt a poke at DL/AA, its more like a little tiny whisper of wind blowing across Flushing Meadow.

jumbojet wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Do you realize how much declined revenue DL has suffered since B6 entered BOS-ATL and then BOS-MSP? If a B6 entrance into AMS would cause a similar loss, it would be disastrous for DL.


B6 doesn't need 2 TATL gateways. BOS is the main TATL hub. JFK is serving O&D, which is huge. There are things B6 can do to get LHR slots aside from complaining. Remember, it sits on one of the most valuable real estate in America with the 2nd largest slot portfolio at JFK and the terminal management for the entire north terminal in the reconfigured JFK. There is a lot they can theoretically trade to get good slots at LHR if they choose to do so.

As for fare wars, that's a given when B6 enters any strong legacy hubs out of BOS. DL has been able to keep its operation to LHR afloat with exorbitant premium cabin pricing to overcome 60% LF. Let's see how well they do when J pricing drops to $2500 R/T.

Why dont you enlighten me as to how much DL's revenue has declined on BOS-ATL. While its entirely possible their revenue has declined somewhat, might I point out that B6 has dropped down to 3 E190's and 2 A320's on BOS-ATL. Heck, and they cant even fill those planes up! LOL.

Your living in a complete fantasy world if you think for one moment that B6 entering the AMS market would cause DL's finances to tank. LOL. Guess its time to remind you that DL is a very well oiled machine, much more so than B6. Delta is THE worlds most profitable airline. And your also forgetting how many passengers connect through AMS onto other European cities on KLM. Your living in a fantasy world my friend,

Your talking like B6 will be able to match what AA and DL have seat for seat going into LHR right off the bat. This isnt a poke at DL/AA, its more like a little tiny whisper of wind blowing across Flushing Meadow.

as a point of reference. The average fare for DL on BOS-ATL back in 2016 Q3 was $262 and for 2018 Q3 was about $150. 372k boarded in Q3. Let's say half is O&D traffic, that would be close to 800k passengers a year and $110 less in revenue per passenger. Do the math.

On BOS-MSP,average fare for DL on BOS-MSP in 2016 Q3 was $312 and for 2018 Q3 was $183. 165k boarded in Q3. Again, let's say half is O&D traffic, that would be close to 320k passengers a year and $130 less in revenue per passenger. Again, do the math.

Another thing Blue needs to remember, its employees aren't exactly a happy bunch right now. If Blue thinks they are going to compete with the Big US3, and according to pthuang, blow DL out of the water, then they are going to have to pony up the big bucks and pay its employees a wage worthy of a true international airline. That in and of itself means Blues fares across the pond will have to be higher than the $2500 fares tphaung thinks they are going to be. If not, Blues life across the pond is going to be very short lived.

tphuang wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Do you realize how much declined revenue DL has suffered since B6 entered BOS-ATL and then BOS-MSP? If a B6 entrance into AMS would cause a similar loss, it would be disastrous for DL.


B6 doesn't need 2 TATL gateways. BOS is the main TATL hub. JFK is serving O&D, which is huge. There are things B6 can do to get LHR slots aside from complaining. Remember, it sits on one of the most valuable real estate in America with the 2nd largest slot portfolio at JFK and the terminal management for the entire north terminal in the reconfigured JFK. There is a lot they can theoretically trade to get good slots at LHR if they choose to do so.

As for fare wars, that's a given when B6 enters any strong legacy hubs out of BOS. DL has been able to keep its operation to LHR afloat with exorbitant premium cabin pricing to overcome 60% LF. Let's see how well they do when J pricing drops to $2500 R/T.

Why dont you enlighten me as to how much DL's revenue has declined on BOS-ATL. While its entirely possible their revenue has declined somewhat, might I point out that B6 has dropped down to 3 E190's and 2 A320's on BOS-ATL. Heck, and they cant even fill those planes up! LOL.

Your living in a complete fantasy world if you think for one moment that B6 entering the AMS market would cause DL's finances to tank. LOL. Guess its time to remind you that DL is a very well oiled machine, much more so than B6. Delta is THE worlds most profitable airline. And your also forgetting how many passengers connect through AMS onto other European cities on KLM. Your living in a fantasy world my friend,

Your talking like B6 will be able to match what AA and DL have seat for seat going into LHR right off the bat. This isnt a poke at DL/AA, its more like a little tiny whisper of wind blowing across Flushing Meadow.

as a point of reference. The average fare for DL on BOS-ATL back in 2016 Q3 was $262 and for 2018 Q3 was about $150. 372k boarded in Q3. Let's say half is O&D traffic, that would be close to 800k passengers a year and $110 less in revenue per passenger. Do the math.

On BOS-MSP,average fare for DL on BOS-MSP in 2016 Q3 was $312 and for 2018 Q3 was $183. 165k boarded in Q3. Again, let's say half is O&D traffic, that would be close to 320k passengers a year and $130 less in revenue per passenger. Again, do the math.

Your giving me reference. Why don't you dig into the DL financials and give me actual raw data that says their losing money hand over fist. And again I have to remind you, Blue cant even fill up an E190 on BOS-ATL. What even makes you think they can fill up a 321 on BOS-AMS?

Does B6 have ETOPS certification?

jumbojet wrote:

tphuang wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

Why dont you enlighten me as to how much DL's revenue has declined on BOS-ATL. While its entirely possible their revenue has declined somewhat, might I point out that B6 has dropped down to 3 E190's and 2 A320's on BOS-ATL. Heck, and they cant even fill those planes up! LOL.

Your living in a complete fantasy world if you think for one moment that B6 entering the AMS market would cause DL's finances to tank. LOL. Guess its time to remind you that DL is a very well oiled machine, much more so than B6. Delta is THE worlds most profitable airline. And your also forgetting how many passengers connect through AMS onto other European cities on KLM. Your living in a fantasy world my friend,

Your talking like B6 will be able to match what AA and DL have seat for seat going into LHR right off the bat. This isnt a poke at DL/AA, its more like a little tiny whisper of wind blowing across Flushing Meadow.

as a point of reference. The average fare for DL on BOS-ATL back in 2016 Q3 was $262 and for 2018 Q3 was about $150. 372k boarded in Q3. Let's say half is O&D traffic, that would be close to 800k passengers a year and $110 less in revenue per passenger. Do the math.

On BOS-MSP,average fare for DL on BOS-MSP in 2016 Q3 was $312 and for 2018 Q3 was $183. 165k boarded in Q3. Again, let's say half is O&D traffic, that would be close to 320k passengers a year and $130 less in revenue per passenger. Again, do the math.

Your giving me reference. Why don't you dig into the DL financials and give me actual raw data that says their losing money hand over fist. And again I have to remind you, Blue cant even fill up an E190 on BOS-ATL. What even makes you think they can fill up a 321 on BOS-AMS?

I'm just providing what's public available on BTS fare data. BOS-ATL is a bloodbath and that's obvious to anyone looking at the market. It was a very really profitable market for DL and now it probably looses money for them. Same with BOS-MSP. Take it for what you will. You asked me to provide data and I have.

jumbojet wrote:

Another thing Blue needs to remember, its employees aren't exactly a happy bunch right now. If Blue thinks they are going to compete with the Big US3, and according to pthuang, blow DL out of the water, then they are going to have to pony up the big bucks and pay its employees a wage worthy of a true international airline. That in and of itself means Blues fares across the pond will have to be higher than the $2500 fares tphaung thinks they are going to be. If not, Blues life across the pond is going to be very short lived.

I think you maybe getting a little too upset here. I simply said if B6 entering BOS/JFK-AMS has the kind of impact that BOS-ATL/MSP did, it would be hugely problematic for DL.

cledaybuck wrote:

Does B6 have ETOPS certification?

Not yet, I was recently told 12mo from start to finish for us to get it.

tphuang wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

tphuang wrote:

as a point of reference. The average fare for DL on BOS-ATL back in 2016 Q3 was $262 and for 2018 Q3 was about $150. 372k boarded in Q3. Let's say half is O&D traffic, that would be close to 800k passengers a year and $110 less in revenue per passenger. Do the math.

On BOS-MSP,average fare for DL on BOS-MSP in 2016 Q3 was $312 and for 2018 Q3 was $183. 165k boarded in Q3. Again, let's say half is O&D traffic, that would be close to 320k passengers a year and $130 less in revenue per passenger. Again, do the math.

Your giving me reference. Why don't you dig into the DL financials and give me actual raw data that says their losing money hand over fist. And again I have to remind you, Blue cant even fill up an E190 on BOS-ATL. What even makes you think they can fill up a 321 on BOS-AMS?

I'm just providing what's public available on BTS fare data. BOS-ATL is a bloodbath and that's obvious to anyone looking at the market. It was a very really profitable market for DL and now it probably looses money for them. Same with BOS-MSP. Take it for what you will. You asked me to provide data and I have.

jumbojet wrote:

Another thing Blue needs to remember, its employees aren't exactly a happy bunch right now. If Blue thinks they are going to compete with the Big US3, and according to pthuang, blow DL out of the water, then they are going to have to pony up the big bucks and pay its employees a wage worthy of a true international airline. That in and of itself means Blues fares across the pond will have to be higher than the $2500 fares tphaung thinks they are going to be. If not, Blues life across the pond is going to be very short lived.

I think you maybe getting a little too upset here. I simply said if B6 entering BOS/JFK-AMS has the kind of impact that BOS-ATL/MSP did, it would be hugely problematic for DL.

and I simply pointing out that lower fares today compared to two years ago doesnt necessarily mean they are losing money hand over fist, like you suggest. It could mean a thousand diff things.

flyby519 wrote:

cledaybuck wrote:

Does B6 have ETOPS certification?

Not yet, I was recently told 12mo from start to finish for us to get it.

So when https://simpleflying.com/jetblue-is-try ... n-flights/ claims launching flights in time for summer 2019, I should take it with a huge grain of salt? I believe it just took WN about 16 months to get ETOPS.

jumbojet wrote:

tphuang wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

Your giving me reference. Why don't you dig into the DL financials and give me actual raw data that says their losing money hand over fist. And again I have to remind you, Blue cant even fill up an E190 on BOS-ATL. What even makes you think they can fill up a 321 on BOS-AMS?

I'm just providing what's public available on BTS fare data. BOS-ATL is a bloodbath and that's obvious to anyone looking at the market. It was a very really profitable market for DL and now it probably looses money for them. Same with BOS-MSP. Take it for what you will. You asked me to provide data and I have.

jumbojet wrote:

Another thing Blue needs to remember, its employees aren't exactly a happy bunch right now. If Blue thinks they are going to compete with the Big US3, and according to pthuang, blow DL out of the water, then they are going to have to pony up the big bucks and pay its employees a wage worthy of a true international airline. That in and of itself means Blues fares across the pond will have to be higher than the $2500 fares tphaung thinks they are going to be. If not, Blues life across the pond is going to be very short lived.

I think you maybe getting a little too upset here. I simply said if B6 entering BOS/JFK-AMS has the kind of impact that BOS-ATL/MSP did, it would be hugely problematic for DL.

and I simply pointing out that lower fares today compared to two years ago doesnt necessarily mean they are losing money hand over fist, like you suggest. It could mean a thousand diff things.

That's fine. I actually don't think they are loosing a lot of money on those 2 routes. But they have gone from been super profitable to 2 markets that I think they are loosing money on. That's a huge drop in revenue (probably > $100 million a year). B6 is actually loosing a lot of money on BOS-ATL. That shouldn't be a surprise. And if DL sees similar drop in their Europe operation, wall street investors are going to ask questions. Nowhere did I say that's what will happen. I simply said that would be a terrible result if it did happen.

nine4nine wrote:

FlyinRabbit88 wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

Hat tip to OMAAT for posting the pic:

And if you look at the London Tube seat fabric it’s a perfect match to the background on the email invite.
https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/lo ... 08961.html

Wouldn’t be surprised if there is a new tailfin design for Europe 321LRs / Mint 2.0 Aircraft if the speculation comes true.

Not only the pattern on the London Tube but if you look closely it’s the London skyline and the giant wheel.

That's the pattern and color found in the Piccadilly line tube, the only line that serves London Heathrow airport (if we exclude the future Elizabeth line, which is not actually tube). LCY is served by the DLR, which is a different upholstery pattern and none of the other airports have tube service. At this point, I think LHR is certain.

Also, the assumption that JB is going againt DL/KL on TATL service is complete nonsense. The CEO said it himself, if they do it, they'll do it stealthily, which means testing the waters, getting familiar with the market and slowly grow to a comfortable market share. Remember, Europe doesn't know JetBlue and MINT is just a chewing gum flavor.

tphuang wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

tphuang wrote:

I'm just providing what's public available on BTS fare data. BOS-ATL is a bloodbath and that's obvious to anyone looking at the market. It was a very really profitable market for DL and now it probably looses money for them. Same with BOS-MSP. Take it for what you will. You asked me to provide data and I have.


I think you maybe getting a little too upset here. I simply said if B6 entering BOS/JFK-AMS has the kind of impact that BOS-ATL/MSP did, it would be hugely problematic for DL.

and I simply pointing out that lower fares today compared to two years ago doesnt necessarily mean they are losing money hand over fist, like you suggest. It could mean a thousand diff things.

That's fine. I actually don't think they are loosing a lot of money on those 2 routes. But they have gone from been super profitable to 2 markets that I think they are loosing money on. That's a huge drop in revenue (probably > $100 million a year). B6 is actually loosing a lot of money on BOS-ATL. That shouldn't be a surprise. And if DL sees similar drop in their Europe operation, wall street investors are going to ask questions. Nowhere did I say that's what will happen. I simply said that would be a terrible result if it did happen.

Can we put ATL-BOS aside? I think Blue can make Europe work, I mean, whats the big deal really? We aint talking flights to Japan or Australia. But to say they are going to disrupt the whole LHR/AMS/CDG market is ludicrous. It took the US3 a very long time to get to where they are today with all of Europe. And Blue is not going to be any sort of a meaningful player in this market overnight, or even in a year or two like you make it out to be. They will be best be a niche airline to Europe for the time being. They will still have to play it safe and smart. They will also have to take care of their employees, making them a happy bunch will also be important in their quest to fly to Europe and be successful. Its a lot more than just pointing its planes east and flying for 7 hours. The most important aspect though, are the employees. They are a very unhappy bunch, Blue has to take better care of them. What you need to be concerned about to is to much attention being focused on getting Europe flights out on time and all the other MINT flights out on time, that the rest of the operation is going to suffer even more.

Are any used A330-300's available?

Even today it's almost the perfect TATL aircraft.

Varsity1 wrote:

Are any used A330-300's available?

Even today it's almost the perfect TATL aircraft.

Actually could make the announcement of Thomas Cook UK being up for sale an interesting one. They have 9 A330s and 19 A321s. With Jetblue CEO having UK citizenship, a play to buy whatever Thomas Cook UK had to offer, from slots to A/C, it could be a big leap into Europe Ops.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thoma ... KKCN1PW0I9

https://mlexmarketinsight.com/insights- ... -uncertain