anshabhi
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Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:27 am

Please keep politics out of this thread.

As per the latest NOTAM, Pakistani airspace will remain closed till 4th March, except for a few flights originating and departing from some Pakistani Airports


Full NOTAM: https://www.caapakistan.com.pk/upload/N ... 209-19.txt

P.S.: I earlier wrongly mentioned that the airspace has opened.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
CPH-R
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Re: Pakistani Airspace Reopens

Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:34 am

The dark grey dotted line means it's not being tracked live, and its current position is an estimate.
 
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unrave
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Re: Pakistani Airspace Reopens

Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:34 am

No, it hasn't. Black lines on map indicate projected path. I guess this thread should be deleted
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace Reopens

Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:39 am

Correction: Airspace to remain closed till 4th March
https://twitter.com/waqarazeem_/status/ ... 32800?s=19
 
behramjee
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:25 am

Official update on PAK air space is as follows:

1. Air space closure extended till 04Mar 1300 PAK time

2. Lahore Multan Faisalabad Sialkot airports are completely closed down till 04Mar 1300 PAK time

3. Very limited operations under special permission will be permitted out of Islamabad Karachi Peshawar and Quetta airports between today and 04Mar. The exact details of what is being allowed you would have to check at the airport or with the airline directly as it’s not clear yet. Just be mentally prepared for delays !

4. If you want to get to Karachi ASAP from the Punjab you need to take the train...no other choice
 
uta999
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:44 am

What is the reason given for the closure? Is there a threat to civil aviation? Probably not from the India side.
Your computer just got better
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:00 am

uta999 wrote:
What is the reason given for the closure? Is there a threat to civil aviation? Probably not from the India side.


That is exactly why.
 
debonair
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:14 am

uta999 wrote:
What is the reason given for the closure? Is there a threat to civil aviation? Probably not from the India side.


See Itavia Flight 870 crash - it's not good if a civilian a/c is getting in-between a dogfight of Air Force fighters... :white:
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:10 am

behramjee wrote:
Official update on PAK air space is as follows:

1. Air space closure extended till 04Mar 1300 PAK time

2. Lahore Multan Faisalabad Sialkot airports are completely closed down till 04Mar 1300 PAK time

3. Very limited operations under special permission will be permitted out of Islamabad Karachi Peshawar and Quetta airports between today and 04Mar. The exact details of what is being allowed you would have to check at the airport or with the airline directly as it’s not clear yet. Just be mentally prepared for delays !

4. If you want to get to Karachi ASAP from the Punjab you need to take the train...no other choice


I can understand why KHI, PEW, and UET have limited ops, but ISB? What the hell? Might as well not close the airspace at all if they're ok with ISB because location wise, it is in imminent danger should anything go south.

The only place a civilian airliner could get caught in the middle of a shootout is near ISB, if anything goes down it should be guarded the hardest because it is only 70 miles from Indian Kashmir.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:26 am

We all know of the hostile political situation in the region and no one wants to have any civilian airliner get caught in the crossfire between the parties. Recall MH 17 and how it became a victim of a similar conflict even at cruse altitude of over 35,000 feet. Beyond the decision of the government of Pakistan, I am quite sure all airliners and their insurers will limit or ban operations over and into Pakistan and adjacent areas of India and elsewhere.
 
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EightyFour
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:40 am

I saw AI 101 DEL - JFK make a stop in Sharjah today, FL24 says diverted to SHJ, is this related to the airspace being closed and the 77W potentially not making it to JFK with a detour?
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:53 am

EightyFour wrote:
I saw AI 101 DEL - JFK make a stop in Sharjah today, FL24 says diverted to SHJ, is this related to the airspace being closed and the 77W potentially not making it to JFK with a detour?

Yes. Only AI 173 DEL-SFO is lucky in the way that it flies over Pacific and not the western route.
UA flight's are diverting to somewhere in Europe.
On return though, AI's ORD & EWR- DEL were able to make it without refueling, but SFO-DEL stopped at SHJ.
 
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BirdBrain
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:01 pm

Glad to see some airports and routes are open. Some local flights are doing a western routing, going over some mountains and isolated areas. I wonder if it raises some engine out concerns.

The airspace closure has been very disruptive to say the least, but totally justified in my opinion. Here is hoping we don't see any incidents/accidents as a result of this. Interesting times.
 
LH658
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:10 pm

I am seeing PIA and Serene Air operating KHI - ISB and EK operating DXB - KHI as of right now.
 
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unrave
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:11 pm

International flights in and out of four airports are permitted. Overflying is prohibited. Cannot enter from India.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
LH658
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:22 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Official update on PAK air space is as follows:

1. Air space closure extended till 04Mar 1300 PAK time

2. Lahore Multan Faisalabad Sialkot airports are completely closed down till 04Mar 1300 PAK time

3. Very limited operations under special permission will be permitted out of Islamabad Karachi Peshawar and Quetta airports between today and 04Mar. The exact details of what is being allowed you would have to check at the airport or with the airline directly as it’s not clear yet. Just be mentally prepared for delays !

4. If you want to get to Karachi ASAP from the Punjab you need to take the train...no other choice


I can understand why KHI, PEW, and UET have limited ops, but ISB? What the hell? Might as well not close the airspace at all if they're ok with ISB because location wise, it is in imminent danger should anything go south.

The only place a civilian airliner could get caught in the middle of a shootout is near ISB, if anything goes down it should be guarded the hardest because it is only 70 miles from Indian Kashmir.


Well ISB and KHI have the most flight to each other over 70 flights at peak, and even KHI - DXB. Also ISB might be open 1 due to the terrain of Islamabad area is more hilly, I am sure there is away more military active their, even near Islamabad there is the Nuclear facility research & development facility, then their places like Pakistan Military Academy Kakul, Abbotobad, and Nur Khan Air Base, so their other strategically places in the area or within a vicinity of 500 miles For India, if they wanted to attempt, though Islamabad, and those areas are mountainous, and Pakistan more alert over their. Also look at the usual flight path of ISB - KHI, and look at today flight path all the flights are flying from west of the Indus, more closer to Afghanistan, on a normal day they literally flight to Karachi, no odd flight path. Lahore is obvious, the airport is literally on the east of the city, most of Lahore posch Housing societies are within that area etc, and it a border city.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:13 pm

unrave wrote:
International flights in and out of four airports are permitted. Overflying is prohibited. Cannot enter from India.


Note: India hasn't imposed any restrictions. Pakistan imposed them on itself.

Again, please keep politics out.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:19 pm

Looks like AC BOM-YYZ made it nonstop! That must have been a hell of a long flight
 
DylanHarvey
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:37 pm

Irehdna wrote:
Looks like AC BOM-YYZ made it nonstop! That must have been a hell of a long flight

FR24 was saying ~16:00, the 77L definitely has the legs. AI have an extremely low density 77L, so I’m not why they couldn’t make SFO-DEL nonstop even with the detour. Unless they don’t have 766k MTOW 77L’s, and rather the 343t MTOW.
 
VTORD
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:57 pm

anshabhi wrote:
EightyFour wrote:
I saw AI 101 DEL - JFK make a stop in Sharjah today, FL24 says diverted to SHJ, is this related to the airspace being closed and the 77W potentially not making it to JFK with a detour?

Yes. Only AI 173 DEL-SFO is lucky in the way that it flies over Pacific and not the western route.
UA flight's are diverting to somewhere in Europe.
On return though, AI's ORD & EWR- DEL were able to make it without refueling, but SFO-DEL stopped at SHJ.

My friend is booked on AI174 out of SFO on Saturday March 02. She has been notified that the flight will be stopping in SHJ.
 
behramjee
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:46 pm

I don’t understand why SFO-DEL needs to refuel in SHJ? Isn’t it faster flying via Pacific and refueling instead in ICN/China/Japan?
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:39 am

behramjee wrote:
I don’t understand why SFO-DEL needs to refuel in SHJ? Isn’t it faster flying via Pacific and refueling instead in ICN/China/Japan?

No. Flying over Pacific would take it against the winds or Jetstreams. Very fuel expensive
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:42 am

I've flown TK 708/709 a couple of times, and the route is Turkey/Iran/Pakistan. The route now with the resumption to Pakistan shows TK 708/709 Turkey/Iraq/Persian Gulf/UAE (over Dubai) and the Arabian Sea to Pakistan, with the same way back to Turkey. Why would they avoid Iran completely?

Usual route
Image

Route since Mar 1
Image

The route to KHI-ISB-KHI is also heading West before turning north.
Image
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
danirich26
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:49 am

Flightsimboy wrote:
I've flown TK 708/709 a couple of times, and the route is Turkey/Iran/Pakistan. The route now with the resumption to Pakistan shows TK 708/709 Turkey/Iraq/Persian Gulf/UAE (over Dubai) and the Arabian Sea to Pakistan, with the same way back to Turkey. Why would they avoid Iran completely?

Usual route
Image

Route since Mar 1
Image


Not sure why they'd avoid Iran, but, the winds in the region have been amazing going Eastbound, with a jetstream over Southern Iran/Persian Gulf (Notice how the flight time on the "longer" route is actually about an hour and a half shorter than the previous route, even with the detour!)
 
LH658
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:43 am

Flightsimboy wrote:
I've flown TK 708/709 a couple of times, and the route is Turkey/Iran/Pakistan. The route now with the resumption to Pakistan shows TK 708/709 Turkey/Iraq/Persian Gulf/UAE (over Dubai) and the Arabian Sea to Pakistan, with the same way back to Turkey. Why would they avoid Iran completely?

Usual route
Image

Route since Mar 1
Image

The route to KHI-ISB-KHI is also heading West before turning north.
Image


Event the flights to LYP and LHE, are operating in same way going west of Karachi then North, towards ISB, then down south to LYP and LHE. Maybe to be farther away from India, in case their any more conflicts. Though on India side flights to ATQ, Rajashtan, & Kashmir are normal operation. I have noticed some airlines are flying through Pakistan, to get to India such as Ukraine Air, I saw a Etihad flight do the same, though EK back onto using Pakistan air space for it Far East Asia flights.
 
LH658
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:52 am

Probably also with domestic flights taking a more western route has to do with airports like MUX, Sialkot, Bahawalpur, RYK, Sukkur, and other airports in the regions are closed, as well. Just a thought.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:01 pm

 
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OA940
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:37 pm

I hope tomorrow is the last, but I'm not so sure of it. Let's hope this doesn't go the way of Israel.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:03 pm

danirich26 wrote:
(Notice how the flight time on the "longer" route is actually about an hour and a half shorter than the previous route, even with the detour!)


Yes you are quite right. Perhaps this is the start of a newer route which is shorter. Though now through an extremely busy corridor.
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:37 pm

OA940 wrote:
I hope tomorrow is the last, but I'm not so sure of it. Let's hope this doesn't go the way of Israel.


I think if nothing happens, it will fully reopen open tomorrow or the day after but following the current patterns.

However, if another one of these flare ups occur, it's very likely we could be looking at a long term ban.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:12 am

Again extended for another 24 hours till 6th march
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:40 am

anshabhi wrote:
Again extended for another 24 hours till 6th march


I think this has something to do with the news about multiple missile attacks thwarted by ISI that came out today. A missile threat aimed at an unknown target is a substantially bigger threat to civilian aircraft than a simple dogfight. The missile attack that was foiled would likely have gone deep into Pakistani territory and come way to closer to the flightpath of civil aircraft than the shootdown near the border. And there are reported to have been a minimum of five jointly planned by India and Israel. This would definitely be a legit reason to extend the ban if true. This would also explain why aircraft are still flying along the western border despite the airspace being partially open. A successful missile attack would've endangered any flights along the eastern border where these strikes were planned so Pakistani intelligence probably advised use of the western corridor. And this doesn't even account for the Indian submarine incursion into Pakistani waters that was also reported today as well as the threat of a naval strike on Karachi.
Last edited by sonicruiser on Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:56 am

sonicruiser wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Again extended for another 24 hours till 6th march


I think this has something to do with the news about multiple missile attacks thwarted by ISI that came out today. A missile threat aimed at an unknown target is a substantially bigger threat to civilian aircraft than a simple dogfight. The missile attack that was foiled would likely have gone deep into Pakistani territory and come way to closer to the flightpath of civil aircraft than the shootdown near the border. And there are reported to have been a minimum of five jointly planned by India and Israel. This would definitely be a legit reason to extend the ban if true. This would also explain why aircraft are still flying along the western border despite the airspace being partially open. A successful missile attack would've endangered any flights along the eastern border where these strikes were planned so Pakistani intelligence probably advised use of the western corridor. And this doesn't even accounting for the Indian submarine incursion into Pakistani waters that was also reported today as well as the threat of a naval strike on Karachi.

That's news for me. Never heard of any missile threats so far.
Heck, considering how vocal Pakistan has been with everything so far, I would expect something like this to be tweeted by DG ISPR atleast once

IMO, Pakistan has over estimated the things by a large degree
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:01 am

anshabhi wrote:
That's news for me. Never heard of any missile threats so far.
Heck, considering how vocal Pakistan has been with everything so far, I would expect something like this to be tweeted by DG ISPR atleast once


Actually SMQ did https://twitter.com/HamidMirPAK/status/ ... 09700?s=20

You didn't hear about it thankfully because it didn't happen. But keeping airspace closed due to a missile threat is definitely not overestimating things, its common sense. No surprise the Israelis were complicit in trying to shoot down peace.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:11 am

sonicruiser wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
That's news for me. Never heard of any missile threats so far.
Heck, considering how vocal Pakistan has been with everything so far, I would expect something like this to be tweeted by DG ISPR atleast once


Actually SMQ did https://twitter.com/HamidMirPAK/status/ ... 09700?s=20

You didn't hear about it thankfully because it didn't happen. But keeping airspace closed due to a missile threat is definitely not overestimating things, its common sense.

Slightly Off topic, but how did they"defuse" it, even if it existed? Does Pakistan have any missile defence systems?

Atleast I couldn't find anything on wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile ... by_country
 
Armadillo1
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:13 am

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/i ... 2019-03-04
India reported shoot down drone yesterday
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:18 am

anshabhi wrote:
Slightly Off topic, but how did they"defuse" it, even if it existed? Does Pakistan have any missile defence systems?

Atleast I couldn't find anything on wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile ... by_country


Missile defense systems are for when your intelligence doesn't foil it ahead of time. And yes, Pakistan does have them. They were moved into place in Karachi although didn't get used as there was no need.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:26 am

Armadillo1 wrote:
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/iaf-jets-shoot-down-unidentified-pakistani-aircraft-that-crossed-border-in-rajasthan-1470176-2019-03-04
India reported shoot down drone yesterday


Not a coincidence that the drone was shot down over Rajasthan where the foiled missiles were going to be launched from.
 
AIRT0M
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:59 am

anshabhi wrote:
I saw AI 101 DEL - JFK make a stop in Sharjah today, FL24 says diverted to SHJ, is this related to the airspace being closed and the 77W potentially not making it to JFK with a detour?


That's right. UA83 DEL-EWR has been stopping in FRA for the last couple of days (any idea why the FRA-EWR went out with a 10 hour delay yesterday?)
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:48 am

Extended till 7th
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:00 am

sonicruiser wrote:
Extended till 7th

They should perform a better threat analysis or whatever, and give a finite date, which will be adhered to until something extraordinary happens rather than keeping airlines on the edge forever
 
Cathay777300ER
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:55 am

A Few Middle Eastern carriers through from china through to Oman yesterday. Seems weird to allow a some but not others.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ek323#1fb3bf4d
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ey889#1fb45f7c
 
SeoulIncheon
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till 4th March, with exceptions

Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:58 am

anshabhi wrote:
behramjee wrote:
I don’t understand why SFO-DEL needs to refuel in SHJ? Isn’t it faster flying via Pacific and refueling instead in ICN/China/Japan?

No. Flying over Pacific would take it against the winds or Jetstreams. Very fuel expensive


Also there is a big detour flying between East Asia and India due to Hinalaya and Tibet right north to Delhi.

http://origin.flightaware.com/live/flig ... /VIDP/RKSI
 
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Jawaiiansky66
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:59 pm

On March 3rd, I was flying on AC045, the direct flight from Delhi to YVR, and our flight was rerouted to travel south around Pakistan with a refueling stop in Copenhagen. The original 14.5 hour direct flight turned into a 19+ hour flight with no option to leave the plane or to get food. The inflight staff were awesome but had to make due with what they had. Does anyone know when the new Canadian air passenger compensation rules/regulations come into effect?
 
Flightsimboy
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:26 am

TK 709 is now back on it's regular route.

Image
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
LH658
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:42 am

EK been flying to Tokyo, PEK, ICN, and some other destinations through Pakistan. Ukraine Air, has also been flying through Pakistan. Yes a threat is a threat, and all threat should be taken seriously, just like Airports in the west close down due to basic drone, or due to a false bomb threat etc. Drones etc can be replace, not people.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:46 am

Again extended till tomorrow 8th march.

It appears this time allowed routes have been reduced:
https://www.caapakistan.com.pk/upload/N ... 244-19.TXT
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:59 am

I think Pakistan is trying to assert that it's important with these airspace closures
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:57 am

Again extended till 9th
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:04 pm

Jawaiiansky66 wrote:
On March 3rd, I was flying on AC045, the direct flight from Delhi to YVR, and our flight was rerouted to travel south around Pakistan with a refueling stop in Copenhagen. The original 14.5 hour direct flight turned into a 19+ hour flight with no option to leave the plane or to get food. The inflight staff were awesome but had to make due with what they had. Does anyone know when the new Canadian air passenger compensation rules/regulations come into effect?


Sorry, but you think you deserve compensation because AC rerouted the flight due to a war situation? I am pro pax as the next guy, but this seems to go to far for me. Sorry.

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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos