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readytotaxi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:40 pm

There must be considerable loss of revenue to Pakistan from overfly fees the past week.
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StormRider
Posts: 93
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:46 pm

sonicruiser wrote:

Missile defense systems are for when your intelligence doesn't foil it ahead of time. And yes, Pakistan does have them. They were moved into place in Karachi although didn't get used as there was no need.


so how exactly was this attack "foiled"? do you mean to say it never took place because ISI found out about it and....
what were the supposed targets of this attack?

sorry but this is a bit difficult to believe and you seem to have in depth knowledge of these shenanigans.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 455
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:31 pm

StormRider wrote:
so how exactly was this attack "foiled"? do you mean to say it never took place because ISI found out about it and....
what were the supposed targets of this attack?


Yes, Karachi and Bahawalpur.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 455
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:34 am

Extended till the 11th.
 
RemoFlyer
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:09 pm

its like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum every day, but everyone seems to just ignore the child :lol:
 
blueflyer
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

So what's the rationale for keeping overflights out still? Is it to piss off Indian traffic, or because ATC is so antiquated they can't tell the difference between a 777 and a F16?
The Trump/Johnson special relationship: Special people on both sides of the Atlantic
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:23 pm

Probably to piss India off, about 7 or 8 airlines currently using their airspace, just keeping their "friends" happy.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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Chaostheory
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:19 pm

blueflyer wrote:
So what's the rationale for keeping overflights out still? Is it to piss off Indian traffic, or because ATC is so antiquated they can't tell the difference between a 777 and a F16?


readytotaxi wrote:
Probably to piss India off, about 7 or 8 airlines currently using their airspace, just keeping their "friends" happy.


It takes two to tango.

Opening your airspace for overflight is useless is the other side isn't willing to reciprocate. What do you want transit aircraft to do? Reach an entry/exit point and turn around? The ball is in India's court to reciprocate and start coordinating.
 
Antarius
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:25 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
Armadillo1 wrote:
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/iaf-jets-shoot-down-unidentified-pakistani-aircraft-that-crossed-border-in-rajasthan-1470176-2019-03-04
India reported shoot down drone yesterday


Not a coincidence that the drone was shot down over Rajasthan where the foiled missiles were going to be launched from.


Is there any proof of these missiles? Other than a vague Twitter statement?

This reads like rah rah propaganda.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
blueflyer
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:32 pm

Chaostheory wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
So what's the rationale for keeping overflights out still? Is it to piss off Indian traffic, or because ATC is so antiquated they can't tell the difference between a 777 and a F16?


readytotaxi wrote:
Probably to piss India off, about 7 or 8 airlines currently using their airspace, just keeping their "friends" happy.


It takes two to tango.

Opening your airspace for overflight is useless is the other side isn't willing to reciprocate. What do you want transit aircraft to do? Reach an entry/exit point and turn around? The ball is in India's court to reciprocate and start coordinating.

So all overflights are banned because Indian ATC won't talk to Pakistan ATC?
The Trump/Johnson special relationship: Special people on both sides of the Atlantic
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1134
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:38 pm

blueflyer wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
So what's the rationale for keeping overflights out still? Is it to piss off Indian traffic, or because ATC is so antiquated they can't tell the difference between a 777 and a F16?


readytotaxi wrote:
Probably to piss India off, about 7 or 8 airlines currently using their airspace, just keeping their "friends" happy.


It takes two to tango.

Opening your airspace for overflight is useless is the other side isn't willing to reciprocate. What do you want transit aircraft to do? Reach an entry/exit point and turn around? The ball is in India's court to reciprocate and start coordinating.

So all overflights are banned because Indian ATC won't talk to Pakistan ATC?


There needs to be coordination for traffic to transit between FIRs. Pakistan-India coordination needs to happen freely as they're responsible in part for BOBCAT ops into Afghanistan.

Looking at the NOTAMS put out by Pakistan, Oman and India in the last few days, it's the Indian side which is dragging its heels. Pakistan has offered to open a southern portion of Karachi FIR to transit traffic.
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:09 am

Chaostheory wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:



It takes two to tango.

Opening your airspace for overflight is useless is the other side isn't willing to reciprocate. What do you want transit aircraft to do? Reach an entry/exit point and turn around? The ball is in India's court to reciprocate and start coordinating.

So all overflights are banned because Indian ATC won't talk to Pakistan ATC?


There needs to be coordination for traffic to transit between FIRs. Pakistan-India coordination needs to happen freely as they're responsible in part for BOBCAT ops into Afghanistan.

Looking at the NOTAMS put out by Pakistan, Oman and India in the last few days, it's the Indian side which is dragging its heels. Pakistan has offered to open a southern portion of Karachi FIR to transit traffic.

When did India issue any NOTAM prohibiting any Pakistani aircraft from it's airspace? Or deciding to not talk with Pakistani ATC?


AI B77L SFO-DEL flies 18 hours non stop!!
Check out playback of flight AI174 from San Francisco to Delhi on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/flights/ai174#1fbd3f3a
 
blueflyer
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:04 am

Chaostheory wrote:
There needs to be coordination for traffic to transit between FIRs.

I know FIRs need to be able to coordinate with one another. Best as I can tell, while most overflights in Pakistan were either to/from an Indian FIR, not all of them were, so I'm not sure the lack of coordination with India is the primary issue.
The Trump/Johnson special relationship: Special people on both sides of the Atlantic
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:55 am

So Pakistan FIR control doesn't allow overflights coming and going from Afghan, Iranian and Chinese airspace either?
 
lalib
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:51 pm

I received the below from Thai airways. I find it totally bizarre

Dear Passenger,

Due to Pakistan and Oman airspce restrictions.
Thence TG341 on 11 March 2019 operate as TG3419 on 12 March 2019 as details follow.

- New Departing Bangkok at 07:01am on 12 March.
- New arriving Karachi at 11:30am on 12 March.
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:11 pm

blueflyer wrote:
Chaostheory wrote:
There needs to be coordination for traffic to transit between FIRs.

I know FIRs need to be able to coordinate with one another. Best as I can tell, while most overflights in Pakistan were either to/from an Indian FIR, not all of them were, so I'm not sure the lack of coordination with India is the primary issue.


I have not read any report where India said anything like it will cooperate with Pakistani ATC less than how it did before airstrikes and airspace closures.

See this https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 9#1fc0723b India is freely allowing a flight to Karachi overfly it.
 
Zaf
Posts: 77
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:51 pm

anshabhi wrote:
AI B77L SFO-DEL flies 18 hours non stop!!
Check out playback of flight AI174 from San Francisco to Delhi on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/flights/ai174#1fbd3f3a


Can't they fly pacific route via Siberia and China?
 
speedbird52
Posts: 750
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:27 pm

RemoFlyer wrote:
its like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum every day, but everyone seems to just ignore the child :lol:

Something tells me if Pakistan opened their airspace and a civilian aircraft was accidentally shot down you would be singing a very different tune...
I hope you realize this in no way benefits Pakistan
 
speedbird52
Posts: 750
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:28 pm

blueflyer wrote:
So what's the rationale for keeping overflights out still? Is it to piss off Indian traffic, or because ATC is so antiquated they can't tell the difference between a 777 and a F16?

That would be the US Navy.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:16 pm

anshabhi wrote:
...
AI B77L SFO-DEL flies 18 hours non stop!!
Check out playback of flight AI174 from San Francisco to Delhi on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/flights/ai174#1fbd3f3a


AFAIK, AI 77Ls are one of the very few with still are equipped and licensed to used aux tanks.
 
sabby
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:42 am

Zaf wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
AI B77L SFO-DEL flies 18 hours non stop!!
Check out playback of flight AI174 from San Francisco to Delhi on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/flights/ai174#1fbd3f3a


Can't they fly pacific route via Siberia and China?

They do that on DEL-SFO (8135nm) to take advantage of the strong pacific tailwinds. Flying 8135nm against pacific headwinds means a tech stop is required, even for 77L.
 
yashk
Posts: 78
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:55 pm

anshabhi wrote:
When did India issue any NOTAM prohibiting any Pakistani aircraft from it's airspace? Or deciding to not talk with Pakistani ATC?


AI B77L SFO-DEL flies 18 hours non stop!!
Check out playback of flight AI174 from San Francisco to Delhi on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/flights/ai174#1fbd3f3a


Even more interesting is AI 77W VTALJ flew AI184 SFO-DEL nonstrop 17 hours 42 mins on March 4. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ai184
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 455
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:16 pm

Extended till 12th
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
Posts: 2080
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:25 pm

AI has anticipated closure to extend till 30th April:

https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status ... 8784760834
 
RTW00
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:16 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:50 pm

To avoid Pakistani airspace, why some flights from Europe come all the way to Mumbai while other go over Porbander/Gujrat to reach Delhi? I am sure it is added time and fuel.

Is it the decision of ATC or airlines?
 
avier
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:16 pm

RTW00 wrote:
To avoid Pakistani airspace, why some flights from Europe come all the way to Mumbai while other go over Porbander/Gujrat to reach Delhi? I am sure it is added time and fuel.

Is it the decision of ATC or airlines?


That particular portion of Gujarat, especially the one closer to the India-Pak border is military airspace, and that corridor is not open for overflying by commercial flights generally. Off course the airlines flying to airports there in Gujarat will allowed.
However, now some Indian airlines get special permission by the military to overfly that route on case-by-case basis and I think foreign carriers aren't still permitted that route.
 
sibibom
Posts: 374
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:24 pm

There are reports of Pakistani jets breaking the speed of sound and causing sonic boom 10kms from the border today.
 
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OA940
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:35 pm

Wait so is the airspace closed to all overflights still? This is confusing.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
slickvik
Posts: 73
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:44 pm

OA940 wrote:
Wait so is the airspace closed to all overflights still? This is confusing.


Closed until 14th
 
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Jawaiiansky66
Posts: 91
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:22 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Jawaiiansky66 wrote:
On March 3rd, I was flying on AC045, the direct flight from Delhi to YVR, and our flight was rerouted to travel south around Pakistan with a refueling stop in Copenhagen. The original 14.5 hour direct flight turned into a 19+ hour flight with no option to leave the plane or to get food. The inflight staff were awesome but had to make due with what they had. Does anyone know when the new Canadian air passenger compensation rules/regulations come into effect?


Sorry, but you think you deserve compensation because AC rerouted the flight due to a war situation? I am pro pax as the next guy, but this seems to go to far for me. Sorry.



Thanks man...in Canada we are supposed to have new passenger compensation rules come into effect that protect consumers from issues such as this. Again the staff were awesome but the situation sucked.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:29 pm

slickvik wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Wait so is the airspace closed to all overflights still? This is confusing.


Closed until 14th

and 15th, 16th, etc, Pakistan just keeps extending the closure each day until the next, and the next, etc.
mercure f-wtcc
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:17 am

Has the airspace closure been cancelled? I don't see any new NOTAM on their website and the last NOTAM stands cancelled

https://www.caapakistan.com.pk/NOTAMS/NotamView.aspx
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:48 am

Edit: Airspace to remain closed till 18th March.
 
slickvik
Posts: 73
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:32 pm

Extended to 18th
 
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Spiderguy252
Posts: 1063
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:34 pm

Cute that Chinese carriers can overfly them to third countries no problem.
Vahroone
 
golfradio
Posts: 886
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Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:07 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Cute that Chinese carriers can overfly them to third countries no problem.


China owns Pakistan. So not surprising. So can Saudi and UAE airlines. They are floating Pakistan right now.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
LH658
Posts: 997
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:32 pm

Didn't India, and Pakistan just release new threats.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indi ... SKCN1QY03T
 
yashk
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:35 pm

Why can’t India ban overflight for all Pakistani carriers and also for all airlines flying into Pakistan?
 
FB330
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:01 am

So, are we expecting the airspace to open today?
 
sibibom
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:18 am

yashk wrote:
Why can’t India ban overflight for all Pakistani carriers and also for all airlines flying into Pakistan?


It will barely affect them, cos most of their flights are westbound.
 
LH658
Posts: 997
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:55 am

yashk wrote:
Why can’t India ban overflight for all Pakistani carriers and also for all airlines flying into Pakistan?


It only affecting on flights on Malindo Air, TG, Sri Lankan Airlines, and PIA BKK and KUL route.
 
LH658
Posts: 997
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:23 am

Kam Air 915 KBL - DEL is flying via Pakistan, still through odd route. Previous flights flew through Pakistan as well. Seems like the Indians aren't cooperating with PK atc?

Flight goes into Pakistan then into Oman Air space then to India.
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:24 am

LH658 wrote:
yashk wrote:
Why can’t India ban overflight for all Pakistani carriers and also for all airlines flying into Pakistan?


It only affecting on flights on Malindo Air, TG, Sri Lankan Airlines, and PIA BKK and KUL route.


That's basically them being cut-off from the whole South & South-east Asia. Even Sri-Lanka for that matter , unless they fine with a circuitous routing.
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:29 am

LH658 wrote:
Kam Air 915 KBL - DEL is flying via Pakistan, still through odd route. Previous flights flew through Pakistan as well. Seems like the Indians aren't cooperating with PK atc?

Flight goes into Pakistan then into Oman Air space then to India.


Pakistan hasn't opened the airspace up on its Eastern side, bordering India. So it also has reduced ops at its own airports there and no airlines crossing to or from India by Pak CAA.
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
Posts: 2080
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:35 am

FB330 wrote:
So, are we expecting the airspace to open today?

No. AI is expecting it to extend till 30th April
 
LH658
Posts: 997
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:47 am

lalib wrote:
I received the below from Thai airways. I find it totally bizarre

Dear Passenger,

Due to Pakistan and Oman airspce restrictions.
Thence TG341 on 11 March 2019 operate as TG3419 on 12 March 2019 as details follow.

- New Departing Bangkok at 07:01am on 12 March.
- New arriving Karachi at 11:30am on 12 March.


All of TG PK ops seem to be canceled. I know there was a few KHI flights.
 
nname
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:19 am

Jawaiiansky66 wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Jawaiiansky66 wrote:
On March 3rd, I was flying on AC045, the direct flight from Delhi to YVR, and our flight was rerouted to travel south around Pakistan with a refueling stop in Copenhagen. The original 14.5 hour direct flight turned into a 19+ hour flight with no option to leave the plane or to get food. The inflight staff were awesome but had to make due with what they had. Does anyone know when the new Canadian air passenger compensation rules/regulations come into effect?


Sorry, but you think you deserve compensation because AC rerouted the flight due to a war situation? I am pro pax as the next guy, but this seems to go to far for me. Sorry.



Thanks man...in Canada we are supposed to have new passenger compensation rules come into effect that protect consumers from issues such as this. Again the staff were awesome but the situation sucked.


I'm pretty sure compensation only applies to delays which the airlines is at fault. Delay like this (along with weather, aircraft grounding, etc) is outside of airline's control and probably not covered.

Speaking of DEL-YVR... The flight is now back to non-stop by travelling through China and over the Pacific. Flight time is actually slightly shorter than scheduled time.
 
anshabhi
Topic Author
Posts: 2080
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:03 am

nname wrote:
I'm pretty sure compensation only applies to delays which the airlines is at fault. Delay like this (along with weather, aircraft grounding, etc) is outside of airline's control and probably not covered.

Speaking of DEL-YVR... The flight is now back to non-stop by travelling through China and over the Pacific. Flight time is actually slightly shorter than scheduled time.

Wow!! Why didn't they figure this out earlier!!? AI has been flying DEL-SFO over Pacific for over an year now ... They should have done the same even before airspace closures

So now AC also has a round the world flight

:white:
 
FB330
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed with exceptions

Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:23 pm

Confirmed through to 19th....
 
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Spiderguy252
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Re: Pakistani Airspace to remain Closed till updated: 5th March, with exceptions

Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:57 am

anshabhi wrote:
FB330 wrote:
So, are we expecting the airspace to open today?

No. AI is expecting it to extend till 30th April


Why 30th April? Is this just an adhoc date based on hope, or is there something more to it?
Vahroone

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