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Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:09 pm

Qatar Airways CEO has said that they will place an order for more aircraft at the Paris Air Show. Though there have been no indications of what will be ordered, it will be a type that they already either have in the fleet or are already on order.

https://atwonline.com/airframes/qatar-a ... show-order

So I guess it could be either A320neo family or 737MAX family for narrowbodies and either A350's, 787's or 777X's for widebodies.
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sibibom
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:15 pm

Or A220.....do they even need more aircraft? They have 190 odd on order. Oh well, when money is no object you can get every toy in the store and more.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:44 pm

sibibom wrote:
Or A220.....do they even need more aircraft? They have 190 odd on order. Oh well, when money is no object you can get every toy in the store and more.

Of the 190 aircraft on order, 50 are A320/321NEO. They now have 44 A319/320/321. If they don't need that many extra capacity, they can always use the NEO to replace the CEO entirely, and that only leaves 8 narrowbodies for capacity expansion. That said, with the loss of so many Gulf routes, they may not have that many narrowbodies expansion opportunities.

The existing widebodies orders are a bit aggressive. They still have 37 A350, 60 777X and 30 787 to be delivered (i.e. 127 in total). If they are to retire all the A330, A340, A380 and 777-200LR in their fleet now, that would only be 44 aircraft. So there are already 87 widebodies for capacity expansion, unless the existing order also include some provision for 777-300ER replacement.
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:47 pm

qf789 wrote:
So I guess it could be either A320neo family or 737MAX family for narrowbodies and either A350's, 787's or 777X's for widebodies.


So pretty much anything then? :lol:

Seriously though, do they need more aircraft? They should take the ones they already ordered first, before they do an Etihad.
 
junlinwong94
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:15 pm

Maybe is to order more aircraft for their other investments in other airlines?
Eg: Air Ittaly
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:52 pm

I'm sure QR is keeping a very close eye on EY and EK. I bet they have enough WBs on order. Most likely a A32Xneo order.
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:57 pm

Maybe Qatar Airways has a shorter span for aircraft replacement due to a combination of the high cycle (average 6 hours stage length compare to 10 hours in other long haul legacies), desert weather, hot and humid summers (and Indian sub continents weather condition)...etc. So where an A330 can be used for 20years in Europe, Qatar Airways needs to replace them within 14-17 years?
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:07 pm

I think it is just the usual blabla from Al Baker. Loads of hot air as always.

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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:22 pm

He's already stated that the first A380s will start leaving by 2025. In addition the 340s will all he gone by the end of the year.

The 330s should be phased out in the next 5 years. As for the 777 the oldest one is 12 years old. I'm not sure but I feel that the ME3 avoid using aircraft past 15 years old.

There is still no word on what is going on with the 320NEO order. It seems that far from being one of the launch customers the airline doesn't even want them any more. In fact it seems that after the blockade they don't actually utilise their entire current 320 fleet.

Qatar Executive has also recently started taking deliveries of the G500.

Air Italy also has the 737 order on the books, but I don't believe they have any wide bodies on order. So it could be wise bodies for air Italy, or alternatively it could be another cargo order.
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:36 pm

qf789 wrote:
So I guess it could be either A320neo family or 737MAX family for narrowbodies and either A350's, 787's or 777X's for widebodies.


In other words, just about every commercial aircraft available for purchase by A or B!

The purpose of the purchase is unclear from the article. It first says that Qatar has no gaps in its current aircraft fleet and that these orders will "enhance" the current fleet (I've never heard that word used in conjunction with aircraft ordering before), but then says the airline wants to keep its fleet young which means replacing aircraft as they exit the fleet. I guess the best you can take from this is that the purchases will both increase the fleet and replace retiring aircraft.
Last edited by JAAlbert on Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:13 pm

raylee67 wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Or A220.....do they even need more aircraft? They have 190 odd on order. Oh well, when money is no object you can get every toy in the store and more.

Of the 190 aircraft on order, 50 are A320/321NEO. They now have 44 A319/320/321. If they don't need that many extra capacity, they can always use the NEO to replace the CEO entirely, and that only leaves 8 narrowbodies for capacity expansion. That said, with the loss of so many Gulf routes, they may not have that many narrowbodies expansion opportunities.

The existing widebodies orders are a bit aggressive. They still have 37 A350, 60 777X and 30 787 to be delivered (i.e. 127 in total). If they are to retire all the A330, A340, A380 and 777-200LR in their fleet now, that would only be 44 aircraft. So there are already 87 widebodies for capacity expansion, unless the existing order also include some provision for 777-300ER replacement.


That's really impressive!

Do QR flies All his fleet at High frequency?

Maybe some of those frame are dedicated to Air Italy or another venture like that?
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:15 pm

From reading the article, it seems that it will be for replacement
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:42 pm

3rdGen wrote:
He's already stated that the first A380s will start leaving by 2025. In addition the 340s will all he gone by the end of the year.

The 330s should be phased out in the next 5 years. As for the 777 the oldest one is 12 years old. I'm not sure but I feel that the ME3 avoid using aircraft past 15 years old.

There is still no word on what is going on with the 320NEO order. It seems that far from being one of the launch customers the airline doesn't even want them any more. In fact it seems that after the blockade they don't actually utilise their entire current 320 fleet.

Qatar Executive has also recently started taking deliveries of the G500.

Air Italy also has the 737 order on the books, but I don't believe they have any wide bodies on order. So it could be wise bodies for air Italy, or alternatively it could be another cargo order.


In regards to the A320neo order. They were going to be one of the first and even had some aircraft fitted and painted but they weren’t happy with the Pratt Engines. Unsurprisingly. Typical Qatar then cancelled all a320neos and swapped all for A321neos (including some LRs) and swapped engines to to the LEAP.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:50 pm

Can't see a need for more 777X. (All right, don't want to.) They've topped up their 787 order once. Maybe more A350s? I can dream...
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:00 pm

Maybe they'll top up their A38... too early? :lol:
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:11 pm

PM wrote:
Can't see a need for more 777X. (All right, don't want to.) They've topped up their 787 order once. Maybe more A350s? I can dream...


Could be the EY unwanted A350 and Airbus made a deal with Qatar. (obviously only talking from an armchair, I have no idea what is the contractual requirement between EY and Airbus)
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:14 pm

junlinwong94 wrote:
Maybe is to order more aircraft for their other investments in other airlines?
Eg: Air Ittaly


Doubted. Qatar would be happy to keep transferring used A330-200 to Air Italy so Air Italy can have a lower CASM to take advantage of the second hand aircraft. New aircraft would make airlines like Air Italy have a very challenge CASM and may kill the expansion.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:17 pm

Or EYs unwanted B777X?
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:49 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Or EYs unwanted B777X?


Speculation is those are the ones British Airways picked up with their order earlier this week.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:53 pm

Stitch wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Or EYs unwanted B777X?


Speculation is those are the ones British Airways picked up with their order earlier this week.


Nope. According to Boeing after the BA order, all EYs 777X are still on the order book. All that Etihad have confirmed to cancel so far are 42 A350s.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:59 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Or EYs unwanted B777X?


Who says they're unwanted, besides you?
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:11 pm

U-Turn Al will change his mind before PAS.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:23 pm

Maybe some A330neo's? I think they don't need more aircrafts, they already have a lot on order.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:28 pm

Well, with the soon nearly unlimited access to European skies they might see the need for even more aircraft to overtake EK in Europe
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:45 pm

I'm feeling this is going to be an investment round of orders. Put the 788 fleet out to pasture and top up the 789 orders. Likewise some 773ERs can be moved on and additional A35K brought in.

These displaced aircraft and more besides could form the next venture into Qatar Leasing. Air Italy would certainly benefit.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:47 pm

raylee67 wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Or A220.....do they even need more aircraft? They have 190 odd on order. Oh well, when money is no object you can get every toy in the store and more.

Of the 190 aircraft on order, 50 are A320/321NEO. They now have 44 A319/320/321. If they don't need that many extra capacity, they can always use the NEO to replace the CEO entirely, and that only leaves 8 narrowbodies for capacity expansion. That said, with the loss of so many Gulf routes, they may not have that many narrowbodies expansion opportunities.

The existing widebodies orders are a bit aggressive. They still have 37 A350, 60 777X and 30 787 to be delivered (i.e. 127 in total). If they are to retire all the A330, A340, A380 and 777-200LR in their fleet now, that would only be 44 aircraft. So there are already 87 widebodies for capacity expansion, unless the existing order also include some provision for 777-300ER replacement.


Why people don’t think that a great many of the 777X ordered worldwide are 77W replacements is beyond me. It’s pretty clear they are. This narrative that the 77W repalcment cycle hasn’t started isn’t true for the heavy users of the type.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:50 pm

george77300 wrote:
According to Boeing after the BA order, all EYs 777X are still on the order book. All that Etihad have confirmed to cancel so far are 42 A350s.


Etihad are on record stating they have agreed to take only 6 of 17 777-9 and made no mention of taking any of the 777-8 they have on order and they are also on record that the remainder will be "defined at a later time through rescheduling, restructuring or reduction" so I expect we will see a change in the 777X numbers for Etihad sooner rather than later or the ASC666 figure for the 777 is going to go up from the current 5.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:03 pm

bigjku wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Or A220.....do they even need more aircraft? They have 190 odd on order. Oh well, when money is no object you can get every toy in the store and more.

Of the 190 aircraft on order, 50 are A320/321NEO. They now have 44 A319/320/321. If they don't need that many extra capacity, they can always use the NEO to replace the CEO entirely, and that only leaves 8 narrowbodies for capacity expansion. That said, with the loss of so many Gulf routes, they may not have that many narrowbodies expansion opportunities.

The existing widebodies orders are a bit aggressive. They still have 37 A350, 60 777X and 30 787 to be delivered (i.e. 127 in total). If they are to retire all the A330, A340, A380 and 777-200LR in their fleet now, that would only be 44 aircraft. So there are already 87 widebodies for capacity expansion, unless the existing order also include some provision for 777-300ER replacement.


Why people don’t think that a great many of the 777X ordered worldwide are 77W replacements is beyond me. It’s pretty clear they are. This narrative that the 77W repalcment cycle hasn’t started isn’t true for the heavy users of the type.


You are completely right, the biggest user of 777-300ER, Emirates, has already ordered their complete replacements.
I assume Qatar has also ordered all the 777-300ER replacements they will need.
They even declared that, when they made those 777-8/9 orders.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:06 pm

QR were rumoured to be transferring a number of 788s to Air Italy. If they do, then their future fleet plan will need to take acount of that
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:07 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
bigjku wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Of the 190 aircraft on order, 50 are A320/321NEO. They now have 44 A319/320/321. If they don't need that many extra capacity, they can always use the NEO to replace the CEO entirely, and that only leaves 8 narrowbodies for capacity expansion. That said, with the loss of so many Gulf routes, they may not have that many narrowbodies expansion opportunities.

The existing widebodies orders are a bit aggressive. They still have 37 A350, 60 777X and 30 787 to be delivered (i.e. 127 in total). If they are to retire all the A330, A340, A380 and 777-200LR in their fleet now, that would only be 44 aircraft. So there are already 87 widebodies for capacity expansion, unless the existing order also include some provision for 777-300ER replacement.


Why people don’t think that a great many of the 777X ordered worldwide are 77W replacements is beyond me. It’s pretty clear they are. This narrative that the 77W repalcment cycle hasn’t started isn’t true for the heavy users of the type.


You are completely right, the biggest user of 777-300ER, Emirates, has already ordered their complete replacements.
I assume Qatar has also ordered all the 777-300ER replacements they will need.
They even declared that, when they made those 777-8/9 orders.


Pretty much. The upper bound of the 77X market is however many 77W were sold plus A380 sales probably less A350-1000 sales. Then any growth someone has. You hit 500 I feel like it’s gone pretty well. 650 and I would think people would throw a party.

The late to the game 77W operators are wide open. I think maybe AF was an early operator that may still need replacements. Other than that most have ordered 77X or A350 or both.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:08 pm

What about A22X to cover their 38 A319/A320ceos? Their A321ceos are more than covered by their A321neo order and grow capacity.

Their A332/333/346 (25) are aging, but again are more than covered by their B788/789/A359/A35K (103) orders.

Their 77L/77W/A388 (67) are also covered by their 778/779 (60) orders.

Could they want to get rid of their B788 early? Maybe add a few more B779?
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:13 pm

What about ditching their 8 A33F for a few more B77F?
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:27 pm

george77300 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Or EYs unwanted B777X?


Speculation is those are the ones British Airways picked up with their order earlier this week.


Nope. According to Boeing after the BA order, all EYs 777X are still on the order book. All that Etihad have confirmed to cancel so far are 42 A350s.


Those 777Xs may still appear on the books, but how confident are you that Boeing is holding them delivery positions within the next 5 years?
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:31 pm

Not expecting a huge order. Top on the 78 most likely to expand thin routes in newly liberated Europe and new destinations in Africa probably.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:43 pm

The big potential would be A350 and A321neo though, it seems like they love these aircrafts.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:11 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
What about ditching their 8 A33F for a few more B77F?


Thats the plan. To eventually replace all A330F with 77F as the A330F faces some limitations with outsized pieces.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:14 am

raylee67 wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Or A220.....do they even need more aircraft? They have 190 odd on order. Oh well, when money is no object you can get every toy in the store and more.

Of the 190 aircraft on order, 50 are A320/321NEO. They now have 44 A319/320/321. If they don't need that many extra capacity, they can always use the NEO to replace the CEO entirely, and that only leaves 8 narrowbodies for capacity expansion. That said, with the loss of so many Gulf routes, they may not have that many narrowbodies expansion opportunities.

The existing widebodies orders are a bit aggressive. They still have 37 A350, 60 777X and 30 787 to be delivered (i.e. 127 in total). If they are to retire all the A330, A340, A380 and 777-200LR in their fleet now, that would only be 44 aircraft. So there are already 87 widebodies for capacity expansion, unless the existing order also include some provision for 777-300ER replacement.

For the 77L. They already retrofit it with Qsuite. I guess not the 777L.
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:35 am

Much of this is going to be driven by strategic geopolitical considerations, not fleet needs. Qatar needs to ensure that both Europe and the US will have something to lose from simply siding with the Saudis in the little Gulf’s-richest-families spat that’s been going on since 2017. So QR will replace aircraft sooner than necessary and the Qatari government will deal with the cost.

If I had to guess, I’d guess A321neo and 787-10. The A321neo will replace all the ceo and the 787-10 will keep the order backlog similar to what it is today after the A330/A340 fleets and those 788s headed for Air Italy are replaced by 789s.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:44 am

Armodeen wrote:
qf789 wrote:
So I guess it could be either A320neo family or 737MAX family for narrowbodies and either A350's, 787's or 777X's for widebodies.


So pretty much anything then? :lol:

Seriously though, do they need more aircraft? They should take the ones they already ordered first, before they do an Etihad.

I am of the opinion that QR is doing an EY.

With the new IST opening sometime this year, I just do not see the need with the low connecting fares in this environment.

If it is a small A220, I understand the potential. Small being 20 or less. EK ran out of infrastructure at just the right time to force moderate expansion.

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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:55 am

747-8f. :stirthepot:
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:55 am

george77300 wrote:
3rdGen wrote:
He's already stated that the first A380s will start leaving by 2025. In addition the 340s will all he gone by the end of the year.

The 330s should be phased out in the next 5 years. As for the 777 the oldest one is 12 years old. I'm not sure but I feel that the ME3 avoid using aircraft past 15 years old.

There is still no word on what is going on with the 320NEO order. It seems that far from being one of the launch customers the airline doesn't even want them any more. In fact it seems that after the blockade they don't actually utilise their entire current 320 fleet.

Qatar Executive has also recently started taking deliveries of the G500.

Air Italy also has the 737 order on the books, but I don't believe they have any wide bodies on order. So it could be wise bodies for air Italy, or alternatively it could be another cargo order.


In regards to the A320neo order. They were going to be one of the first and even had some aircraft fitted and painted but they weren’t happy with the Pratt Engines. Unsurprisingly. Typical Qatar then cancelled all a320neos and swapped all for A321neos (including some LRs) and swapped engines to to the LEAP.


Where did you read that they swapped the engines for LEAP? I don't believe they were able to contractually able to get out of that order
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:11 am

lightsaber wrote:
Armodeen wrote:
qf789 wrote:
So I guess it could be either A320neo family or 737MAX family for narrowbodies and either A350's, 787's or 777X's for widebodies.


So pretty much anything then? :lol:

Seriously though, do they need more aircraft? They should take the ones they already ordered first, before they do an Etihad.

I am of the opinion that QR is doing an EY.

Lightsaber


Lightsaber, are you saying that you believe QR is fixing to drastically cut back on its previous aircraft orders? -ir
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:05 am

So the order will be decide by this June?
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:11 am

ewt340 wrote:
The big potential would be A350 and A321neo though, it seems like they love these aircrafts.


How do they love the A321neo when they are yet to take delivery of any of the aircraft
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:11 am

ewt340 wrote:
The big potential would be A350 and A321neo though, it seems like they love these aircrafts.


How do they love the A321neo when they are yet to take delivery of any of the aircraft
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qf789
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:30 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
What about A22X to cover their 38 A319/A320ceos? Their A321ceos are more than covered by their A321neo order and grow capacity.

Their A332/333/346 (25) are aging, but again are more than covered by their B788/789/A359/A35K (103) orders.

Their 77L/77W/A388 (67) are also covered by their 778/779 (60) orders.

Could they want to get rid of their B788 early? Maybe add a few more B779?


The 788's are planned to move to Air Italy once the 789's come into the fleet

Regarding the 777's, 14 of the current 77W's were ordered after the 777X's were ordered. While they have enough 777X's on order to replace the 777's a top up order is probably happen at some stage. QR still hold up to 50 options/purchase rights on the 777X. I would expect to see some of these converted at some point.

Actually I think the 777X will receive some orders this year, if Boeing can get 400 orders before EIS, so effectively they need probably another 40 or so to reach that, they would be relatively happy with that considering when the 77W entered service they didn't even have 100 firm orders for it. EK is obviously another one that may convert some options into firm orders. There are also other airlines such as QF, NZ, KE who could order it as well
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:36 am

NameOmitted wrote:
747-8f. :stirthepot:


They have two in the fleet and they evidently are used to import a fair bit of perishable goods due to the embargo so the idea they could want more might not be so preposterous.
 
jghealey
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:28 am

Assuming the 787-8s are going to Air Italy (presumably being replaced by 787-9s at QR), and the 777Xs will replace all the current 777s, that leaves 21 A330s to be replaced. Therefore, a 787 or A330neo order seems most likely.

Though I can definitely a topup A321LR order or perhaps even an A220 order, for low demand routes.
 
sabby
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:04 am

My guess would be top up orders of 789 and/or possible new orders of 787-10, more A35Ks to replace A333s, A340s and the older 77Ws. Also, if their previous 50 777-9 orders didn't consider A380 replacements then another 15 or so top up on 777-9.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways to order more aircraft at Paris Air Show

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:12 pm

A launch order for A322?

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