Ishrion
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Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:35 pm

In 2017, American Airlines began installing more seats with their "Project Oasis" starting with the brand new 737 MAX.

The idea was to "harmonize" the fleet by removing IFEs from LAA planes, decreasing seat pitch from 31 to 30 inches, and increasing the seat count on all planes.

The Seat Counts:

LAA 737: 160 -> 172

LAA a321 181 -> 190
LUS a321 187 -> 190

As well as debuting the 737 MAX and a321neo with 172 and 196 seats respectively.

The new configurations were negatively received by many flyers.

Now, in the past months and especially past few days, there have been rumors circulating around the Oasis Project.

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... -in-coach/
https://twitter.com/TheForwardCabin/sta ... 2041845762
https://mobile.twitter.com/xJonNYC/stat ... 5140833280

There is a possibility of reducing seat count and increasing space with the removal of some seats.

Hopefully they end up improving something.
 
OB1504
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:00 pm

Heaven forbid AA should ever have a standardized fleet!

Joking aside, this is positive news.
 
deltaffindfw
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:00 pm

From the first article, I can agree about the first class seats. So disappointing. I typically only bring a backpack on short business trips. To be nice, I try to put the backpack under the middle section of the seat instead of the overhead bin. Now with that stupid new seat, my backpack won't fit in the middle or on either side. So, I must use the overhead bin.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:03 pm

I really hope they consider adding some more space back. Those seats are already so hard to sit on for anything more than two hours. No padding. First class even feels cheap and light weight. At least a little space will help differentiate them from an ULCC cause right now there is nothing different in terms of comfort. This plane could easily be in spirit colors.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:07 pm

30 inch seat pitch? Might as well save a few bucks and fly Allegiant.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:13 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
30 inch seat pitch? Might as well save a few bucks and fly Allegiant.


For the whopping 0.1% of potential AA consumers G6’s flights are applicable to...
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
OB1504
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:26 pm

compensateme wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
30 inch seat pitch? Might as well save a few bucks and fly Allegiant.


For the whopping 0.1% of potential AA consumers G6’s flights are applicable to...


How about F9 or NK? The more AA degrades their product to be more like a ULCC, the less of a revenue premium they’re going to be able to command. Delta has the right approach by offering a coach product I’m actually willing to pay more for.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:31 pm

Economics is another concern. Should aviation market enters a downturn, AA can not fill the aircraft, that is a lot of capacity growth that would meet a potential free fall on passenger load factor figures.

I personally think they made a wrong decide to increase so much capacity statewide by adding seats. They are doing it at the height of economic growth which is another mistake and receipt for future disaster.

Maybe Douggie finally had a seat on the B738MAX and used the back lavatory the first time.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:33 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I really hope they consider adding some more space back. Those seats are already so hard to sit on for anything more than two hours. No padding. First class even feels cheap and light weight. At least a little space will help differentiate them from an ULCC cause right now there is nothing different in terms of comfort. This plane could easily be in spirit colors.


There are plenty of DL and UA planes with pitch as tight as 30" in coach. It's not a new phenomenon: let me point you to the NW 753 seat map from 2003. http://web.archive.org/web/200308010808 ... ndex.shtml

I expect the AA execs will do all they can to avoid eating crow and acknowledging they went too light and too cheap with their seating choices. Let them name the exec who spent five hours in the seat mock-up with passengers on both sides and said 'Yeh, this will be great MIA-UIO.'
 
777PHX
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:50 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I really hope they consider adding some more space back. Those seats are already so hard to sit on for anything more than two hours. No padding. First class even feels cheap and light weight. At least a little space will help differentiate them from an ULCC cause right now there is nothing different in terms of comfort. This plane could easily be in spirit colors.


Truth.

They're not looking much different from the last Ryanair aircraft I was on.
 
Chasensfo
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:59 pm

So what exactly is the point of flying a legacy carrier in coach if they all want to give you the LCC experience? Delta is great, but the rest of the US3 want to charge you legacy prices for a LCC cabin it would seem these days, just with streaming media. Which would be great if I owned a tablet.
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:52 am

Chasensfo wrote:
So what exactly is the point of flying a legacy carrier in coach if they all want to give you the LCC experience? Delta is great, but the rest of the US3 want to charge you legacy prices for a LCC cabin it would seem these days, just with streaming media. Which would be great if I owned a tablet.


I generally agree with you.

If AA wants a piece of the LCC pie, having fully-inflexible basic economy tickets is fine.

I don't know if US labor laws allow it, but having an LCC sub-brand (like Qantas has Jetstar) would be fine too.

But you can't really have one brand covering the ENTIRE MARKET. The market is simply too segmented.

Delta are doing the right thing. JetBlue are doing the right thing. United seems to be trying to do the right thing, at least to some degree.

American seem to think they can have a product under their brand for EVERY market. But no, they can't. If they want to be the only one of the US3 to offer a true First Class, they need to accept the very lowest tiers of the market are not for them.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:56 am

Welcome news. The 737-MAX8 is one of the saddest and most uncomfortable aircraft in American's fleet.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:33 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Welcome news. The 737-MAX8 is one of the saddest and most uncomfortable aircraft in American's fleet.


Yeah it’s really too bad. I recently flew on both a pmUS A321 and pmAA A321. Both were really comfortable rides with that 32” seat pitch. I wasn’t expecting the US plane to be that nice. Then I flew a pmAA A319 and it was cramped. Now the rest of the fleet will be like that.

As much as I hope this is true, I’ll believe a an about face when I see it.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:16 am

The really telling thng has to be this article: https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ns-profit/

If not for the frequent flyer program, would AA be losing money since anyone wanting full service from a legacy carrier is going elsewhere? B6 has eaten AA's lunch on most of the East Coast, DL does likewise at ATL and also in NYC, its second-biggest market. That basically leaves PHL, CLT, and DFW...with DL being strongest to a lot of Europe, Israel, and Africa, and UA being strongest to Asia. The solution isn't densification; it's offering a better flying experience on the plane.
 
flyboy80
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:48 am

Are they really worse than all of DLs reconfigured aircraft such as MD90s, The 199 seat 752, 234 seat 753 and airbus airplanes with lavatories literally in the galleys? I guess DL has TVs on most aircraft and a few snacks AA doesn’t have but generally I find AA planes cleaner than DLs. I haven’t been on a newer Oasis or max plane, but I can’t imagine it’s much tighter than the DL 737-900 which is pretty tight compared to Alaska and with no mid lavatory like United. Don’t all carriers with modern 737s, AS, UA, DL use the slim lavatorys that AA is now installing?
 
Detroit313
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:57 am

Delta 321 is horrible. Extremely tight and the lavatories are in the galley!

DL and UA have had the slim lavatories for years now and no one says anything. But for some reason when AA does it everyone gets upset.
 
jghealey
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:32 am

The AA 737max may seem uncomfortable, but remember that most European carriers are moving to 29 inch pitch.... and haven't had proper business class seats for a very long time. Therefore, the 737 max is comparatively luxurious. Likewise, the A321neo configuration of 196seats is far away from the max 240 seats.
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:50 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Delta 321 is horrible. Extremely tight and the lavatories are in the galley!

DL and UA have had the slim lavatories for years now and no one says anything. But for some reason when AA does it everyone gets upset.


From what I know, DL are ending the use of the Space-Flex (i.e. lavatories in the galley) configuration.
 
afcjets
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:40 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The really telling thng has to be this article: https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ns-profit/

If not for the frequent flyer program, would AA be losing money since anyone wanting full service from a legacy carrier is going elsewhere? B6 has eaten AA's lunch on most of the East Coast, DL does likewise at ATL and also in NYC, its second-biggest market. That basically leaves PHL, CLT, and DFW...with DL being strongest to a lot of Europe, Israel, and Africa, and UA being strongest to Asia. The solution isn't densification; it's offering a better flying experience on the plane.


Not everyone is going to click on a link. The article says American actually lost money last quarter flying passengers, the only thing that made them profitable was selling frequent flier miles to banks, which in this market is pathetic. American made 1.9 billion last year whereas Delta made 5.1 billion, more than 2.5 times as much and Delta is a smaller airline.

It would’t surprise me if American only retrofitted the first part of the cabin and marketed the back as Basic Economy. If that doesn’t work they can continue retrofitting the whole plane. Whatever retrofits or enhancements they make, it’s going to take a big marketing campaign to get passengers they lost to consider flying American again.
 
flyboy80
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:08 pm

StudiodeKadent wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Delta 321 is horrible. Extremely tight and the lavatories are in the galley!

DL and UA have had the slim lavatories for years now and no one says anything. But for some reason when AA does it everyone gets upset.


From what I know, DL are ending the use of the Space-Flex (i.e. lavatories in the galley) configuration.


I believe that’s on the NEO. But until then, there will be some 100 and something 321s with that awful configuration of having a line through the galley to use the restroom. I’ve heard of no plans to reconfigure the A321 ceo with standard non space flex galleys, but perhaps that will come. They did slightly modify them extending the galley about 12” fwd...but it’s still a space flex configuration and the FAs claim to really not like it.
 
OB1504
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I expect the AA execs will do all they can to avoid eating crow and acknowledging they went too light and too cheap with their seating choices. Let them name the exec who spent five hours in the seat mock-up with passengers on both sides and said 'Yeh, this will be great MIA-UIO.'


Or worse, the exec who said it would be even better on MIA-BSB/VVI.

BoeingGuy wrote:
Yeah it’s really too bad. I recently flew on both a pmUS A321 and pmAA A321. Both were really comfortable rides with that 32” seat pitch. I wasn’t expecting the US plane to be that nice. Then I flew a pmAA A319 and it was cramped. Now the rest of the fleet will be like that.


IIRC the LAA A321s are at 31” pitch. The generously padded seats and 32” pitch are the saving grace of the LUS A321s.

flyboy80 wrote:
Are they really worse than all of DLs reconfigured aircraft such as MD90s, The 199 seat 752, 234 seat 753 and airbus airplanes with lavatories literally in the galleys? I guess DL has TVs on most aircraft and a few snacks AA doesn’t have but generally I find AA planes cleaner than DLs. I haven’t been on a newer Oasis or max plane, but I can’t imagine it’s much tighter than the DL 737-900 which is pretty tight compared to Alaska and with no mid lavatory like United. Don’t all carriers with modern 737s, AS, UA, DL use the slim lavatorys that AA is now installing?


Delta must be using a better seat. I’ve flown several transcons on the reconfigured 757s and found it much more comfortable than MCO-MIA on an AA 737 MAX. Are they really both 30”?

jghealey wrote:
The AA 737max may seem uncomfortable, but remember that most European carriers are moving to 29 inch pitch.... and haven't had proper business class seats for a very long time. Therefore, the 737 max is comparatively luxurious. Likewise, the A321neo configuration of 196seats is far away from the max 240 seats.


And? AA is not competing against European short haul; they’re competing against DL and UA.

afcjets wrote:
It would’t surprise me if American only retrofitted the first part of the cabin and marketed the back as Basic Economy. If that doesn’t work they can continue retrofitting the whole plane.


That’s going to lead to a lot of pissed off regular economy passengers who will inevitably end up sitting there due to IROPS or equipment subs. It’s not worth the loss of flexibility to have a separate Y- cabin.
 
United1
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:29 pm

StudiodeKadent wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Delta 321 is horrible. Extremely tight and the lavatories are in the galley!

DL and UA have had the slim lavatories for years now and no one says anything. But for some reason when AA does it everyone gets upset.


From what I know, DL are ending the use of the Space-Flex (i.e. lavatories in the galley) configuration.


AAs 737-8s and Oasis 737-800s are configured quite a bit tighter than UA aircraft are....

For example:
AAs 737-800s seat 172 passengers
UAs 737-800s seat 166 passengers

The pitch is a bit better up front and in Y+ and not all "slim line" lavs are the same size...UAs are slightly bigger.

You can even illustrate the difference comparing the two carriers MAXes together. UAs 737-9s seat 179 passengers and AA 737-8s seat 172...so on an aircraft that is 9 feet longer than the AA 737-8 UA only fits 7 more passengers in.
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Chemist
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:40 pm

Guess what? I'm writing this during a layover on WN, LAX to PHL. I chose to fly on Southwest with a connection rather than going non-stop on American. And I'm a million mile flyer on American. I'd rather have a little more legroom and a better attitude from the crew and I'm not even checking a bag. And my Southwest frequent flyer points don't have blackouts all over the place and haven't been devalued like American's have.
I'll bet I'm not the only one. THAT'S how good American is doing these days.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:43 pm

I don't get the MIQ FC seat hate. Sat in one to HKG (14 hrs) and thought it fine for a domestic FC seat for a few hours of flight time.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:49 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
Are they really worse than all of DLs reconfigured aircraft such as MD90s, The 199 seat 752, 234 seat 753 and airbus airplanes with lavatories literally in the galleys?

Does it really matter if a reconfiguration for airline x sucks more than airline y or vice versa, if they both suck?

Any news that we've hit the bottom and are making a bounce back is welcome news.
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chonetsao
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:27 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
I don't get the MIQ FC seat hate. Sat in one to HKG (14 hrs) and thought it fine for a domestic FC seat for a few hours of flight time.


Yes I thought the seats were OK. Except the IFE and lavatory part was my complaints. I know people are different, and my dislikes about Oasis is very personal (lack of IFE and the back end lavatory). I put the seat situations as less complaints part.
 
global2
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:46 pm

Taking out the IFE was a big mistake if you ask me--just one more reason for people to choose B6 instead. Do UA and DL have IFE on most of their mainline planes at this point?
 
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OA940
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:57 pm

When Delta and JetBlue offer a better seat with more space and IFE, and you can find either better service or pricing in just about any airline than AA then why choose them? And for the record the MAX bathroom is standard for all airlines, but when you combine it with the miserable experience AA has to offer and the fact you have another 150 people to wait in line with it gets worse. They didn't even celebrate the inaugural for christ's sake.
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Austin787
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:59 pm

They may just move the rear lavatories to the galley area (like Delta did on their Airbus narrowbodies) - the extra space can be spread out over the rows behind the exits, allowing for more space between rows. As for the rows in front of the exits, they may convert 1 or 2 MCE rows to regular Y, then adjust the other non-MCE rows to give more room. Or cut F pitch to 36" and redistribute in the regular Y rows. Seat count stays the same and Y gets more space.
 
EChid
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:05 pm

global2 wrote:
Taking out the IFE was a big mistake if you ask me--just one more reason for people to choose B6 instead. Do UA and DL have IFE on most of their mainline planes at this point?

Agreed. As others have said, if there's no IFE then I may as well fly an LCC or ULCC. This is how DL differentiates to me. And no, UA is making the same mistake as AA. Pretending everyone has tablets and that they'd rather use them instead of IFE.
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777PHX
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Welcome news. The 737-MAX8 is one of the saddest and most uncomfortable aircraft in American's fleet.


Yeah it’s really too bad. I recently flew on both a pmUS A321 and pmAA A321. Both were really comfortable rides with that 32” seat pitch. I wasn’t expecting the US plane to be that nice. Then I flew a pmAA A319 and it was cramped. Now the rest of the fleet will be like that.

As much as I hope this is true, I’ll believe a an about face when I see it.


PMUS aircraft get a lot of (undeserved) shit from PMAA frequent flyers, but the PMUS A321s were nice aircraft. Most of them were fairly new and the seats were comfortable. I enjoyed flying on them.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:24 pm

StudiodeKadent wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
So what exactly is the point of flying a legacy carrier in coach if they all want to give you the LCC experience? Delta is great, but the rest of the US3 want to charge you legacy prices for a LCC cabin it would seem these days, just with streaming media. Which would be great if I owned a tablet.


I generally agree with you.

If AA wants a piece of the LCC pie, having fully-inflexible basic economy tickets is fine.

I don't know if US labor laws allow it, but having an LCC sub-brand (like Qantas has Jetstar) would be fine too.


Unavailable for comment: "Song" (DL) and "Ted" (UA).

But you can't really have one brand covering the ENTIRE MARKET. The market is simply too segmented.

Delta are doing the right thing. JetBlue are doing the right thing. United seems to be trying to do the right thing, at least to some degree.

American seem to think they can have a product under their brand for EVERY market. But no, they can't. If they want to be the only one of the US3 to offer a true First Class, they need to accept the very lowest tiers of the market are not for them.


I flew back on the 738 with the newer slimline seats (N980AN, ship #3DN) from SAT to DFW in Main Cabin Extra. Suffice to say I wasn't impressed with the lack of a seat-back IFE device, but I didn't find the seats overly uncomfortable (the seat cushion did feel a little flimsy, to be honest). I flew WN's 3M8 on DAL-BNA last summer and didn't find the seats too uncomfortable either.

Fortunately, it was such a short flight (48 minutes) that I didn't need to use the bathroom, so I can't comment about the lavatories. But, I guess I'll have to be a little more careful when booking on an AA 738. At least my next AA flight is on a 788 in J on DFW-ORD, so that'll be an interesting experience.
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ctrabs0114
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:49 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The really telling thng has to be this article: https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ns-profit/

If not for the frequent flyer program, would AA be losing money since anyone wanting full service from a legacy carrier is going elsewhere? B6 has eaten AA's lunch on most of the East Coast, DL does likewise at ATL and also in NYC, its second-biggest market. That basically leaves PHL, CLT, and DFW...with DL being strongest to a lot of Europe, Israel, and Africa, and UA being strongest to Asia. The solution isn't densification; it's offering a better flying experience on the plane.


It's even worse now, per this release in January:

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... t-quarter/
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:23 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The really telling thng has to be this article: https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ns-profit/

If not for the frequent flyer program, would AA be losing money since anyone wanting full service from a legacy carrier is going elsewhere? B6 has eaten AA's lunch on most of the East Coast, DL does likewise at ATL and also in NYC, its second-biggest market. That basically leaves PHL, CLT, and DFW...with DL being strongest to a lot of Europe, Israel, and Africa, and UA being strongest to Asia. The solution isn't densification; it's offering a better flying experience on the plane.


It's even worse now, per this release in January:

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... t-quarter/


The premium revenue problem is precisely because AA has densified its planes. They should go back to the 160-seat configuration on the B738s. 196 seats will probably work on the A321/A21N as that's certified with an exit limit of 235 and DL plans 197 seats on its A21Ns (their A321s have 192 seats).
 
strfyr51
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:40 am

chonetsao wrote:
Economics is another concern. Should aviation market enters a downturn, AA can not fill the aircraft, that is a lot of capacity growth that would meet a potential free fall on passenger load factor figures.

I personally think they made a wrong decide to increase so much capacity statewide by adding seats. They are doing iat the height of economic growth which is another mistake and receipt for future disaster.

Maybe Douggie finally had a seat on the B738MAX and used the back lavatory the first time.

This is the USAir guys running American into the Ground. AA was WAY better than this in Bankruptcy!! But now? All the "hot" managers at American are NOW?
Running United in "cahoots" with the NWA managers let go from Delta, So therein lies their problem.
 
musman9853
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:12 am

i personally dont mind the no ife and the relatively tight pitch. But i do think it's clear that AA needs new direction, and a whole new leadership team. Delta should not be making 4x as much as you with 3/4 the planes.
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MSPNWA
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:18 am

Why would AA back off from industry-standard? There's no point. There's no revenue premium in giving people more when they don't even know they're getting it. AA is way behind on these changes.

This misinformation assault on AA needs to stop. The bloggers are only misleading their readers.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1497
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:33 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Why would AA back off from industry-standard? There's no point. There's no revenue premium in giving people more when they don't even know they're getting it. AA is way behind on these changes.

This misinformation assault on AA needs to stop. The bloggers are only misleading their readers.


The revenue number do not lie. DL is beating the shit out of AA. So AA can either 1. Double down on the strategy that seems to allow DL to beat the shit out of them 2. Try something else.

#2 seems like a decent idea. As an EXP for many years, AA is operationally a disaster. It's getting to the point that I may need to switch as it's starting to affect the reason I have to travel. Couple this operational cluster with Oasis, and you have a winning strategy to chase people away.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
ABEguy
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:47 am

[threeid][/threeid]
MSPNWA wrote:
Why would AA back off from industry-standard? There's no point. There's no revenue premium in giving people more when they don't even know they're getting it. AA is way behind on these changes.

This misinformation assault on AA needs to stop. The bloggers are only misleading their readers.


Seriously! The delta koolaid drinking on here is crazy. Rode on deltas md80 not too long ago and guess what, knees jammed into the seat in front of me, and no PTVs. Delta’s a321, a320, 757, 767 a330 are all configured with more seats than AAs comparable aircraft. Delta does run a much better operation though and that’s a valid point. AA is aware and supposedly made it priority number one to address that in 2019. The stuff about the seats is just fantasy. 777 is the only category where it’s a real advantage at delta with their 9 abreast.
Last edited by ABEguy on Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ABEguy
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:49 am

ABEguy wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
MSPNWA wrote:
Why would AA back off from industry-standard? There's no point. There's no revenue premium in giving people more when they don't even know they're getting it. AA is way behind on these changes.

This misinformation assault on AA needs to stop. The bloggers are only misleading their readers.


Seriously! The delta koolaid drinking on here is crazy. Rode on deltas md80 not too long ago and guess what, knees jammed into the seat in front of me, and no PTVs. Delta’s a321, a320, 757, 767 a330 are all configured with more seats than AAs comparable airplane. Delta does run a better operation though and that’s a valid point. AA is aware and has made it priority number one to address that in 2019.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1497
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:52 am

ABEguy wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
MSPNWA wrote:
Why would AA back off from industry-standard? There's no point. There's no revenue premium in giving people more when they don't even know they're getting it. AA is way behind on these changes.

This misinformation assault on AA needs to stop. The bloggers are only misleading their readers.


Seriously! The delta koolaid drinking on here is crazy. Rode on deltas md80 not too long ago and guess what, knees jammed into the seat in front of me, and no PTVs. Delta’s a321, a320, 757, 767 a330 are all configured with more seats than AAs comparable airplane. Delta’s got a heck of a PR team.


Maybe they do. Either they do things better that results in such a massive delta (pun intended) in profits or they are a giant PR machine that has the whole world fooled.

Occams Razor suggests the former.

Simply put, what AA is doing isn't working. Might be time to adjust.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
ABEguy
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:02 am

Antarius wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Why would AA back off from industry-standard? There's no point. There's no revenue premium in giving people more when they don't even know they're getting it. AA is way behind on these changes.

This misinformation assault on AA needs to stop. The bloggers are only misleading their readers.


The revenue number do not lie. DL is beating the shit out of AA. So AA can either 1. Double down on the strategy that seems to allow DL to beat the shit out of them 2. Try something else.

#2 seems like a decent idea. As an EXP for many years, AA is operationally a disaster. It's getting to the point that I may need to switch as it's starting to affect the reason I have to travel. Couple this operational cluster with Oasis, and you have a winning strategy to chase people away.


I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude here but this is a perfect example of the kool aid I’m talking about. Dal 2018 total revenue was just under 44B, while AA did 44.5B. You must be talking about profit. Yes AA needs to improve their reliability and operation over all. I’d guess the discrepancy in profit between dal and AA can be attributed to waste by not running a efficient, on time, reliable airline. But the stuff with the seats is non sense sorry. Btw did anyone notice United’s new Max’s? No ptvs.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3247
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:06 am

Antarius wrote:
The revenue number do not lie. DL is beating the shit out of AA. So AA can either 1. Double down on the strategy that seems to allow DL to beat the shit out of them 2. Try something else.

#2 seems like a decent idea. As an EXP for many years, AA is operationally a disaster. It's getting to the point that I may need to switch as it's starting to affect the reason I have to travel. Couple this operational cluster with Oasis, and you have a winning strategy to chase people away.


They don't lie, and they always show that DL is making more money because of factors besides product. DL and UA have had configurations like Oasis for many years, well before AA. If anything the data suggests that Oasis-like products are one reason why DL is making big money. It leads to high revenue/low costs on every flight.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1497
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:08 am

ABEguy wrote:
Antarius wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Why would AA back off from industry-standard? There's no point. There's no revenue premium in giving people more when they don't even know they're getting it. AA is way behind on these changes.

This misinformation assault on AA needs to stop. The bloggers are only misleading their readers.


The revenue number do not lie. DL is beating the shit out of AA. So AA can either 1. Double down on the strategy that seems to allow DL to beat the shit out of them 2. Try something else.

#2 seems like a decent idea. As an EXP for many years, AA is operationally a disaster. It's getting to the point that I may need to switch as it's starting to affect the reason I have to travel. Couple this operational cluster with Oasis, and you have a winning strategy to chase people away.


I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude here but this is a perfect example of the kool aid I’m talking about. Dal 2018 total revenue was just under 44B, while AA did 44.5B. You must be talking about profit. Yes AA needs to improve their reliability and operation over all. I’d guess the discrepancy in profit between dal and AA can be attributed to waste by not running a efficient, on time, reliable airline. But the stuff with the seats is non sense sorry. Btw did anyone notice United’s new Max’s? No ptvs.


Yes, I'm talking about Profit. Revenue is meaningless as a standalone metric - AA is bigger , revenue should be higher. The fact that it's so close despite the size difference further reinforces my point.

Whether it comes down to seats or not is your speculation.

FTR, I do 100 -150k a year on American and very rarely fly DL. So I'm not trying to prop DL up for fun. I just do recognize that they are doing a better job, and the numbers back it up. AA needs to do something else, other than just be a poor mans imitation of DL.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3247
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:21 am

Antarius wrote:
Maybe they do. Either they do things better that results in such a massive delta (pun intended) in profits or they are a giant PR machine that has the whole world fooled.

Occams Razor suggests the former.

Simply put, what AA is doing isn't working. Might be time to adjust.


You're not describing a mutually exclusive scenario. It can be both.

DL is making money primarily because of decisions made decades ago. They're making the most of it now.
 
ABEguy
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:24 am

Antarius wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
Antarius wrote:

The revenue number do not lie. DL is beating the shit out of AA. So AA can either 1. Double down on the strategy that seems to allow DL to beat the shit out of them 2. Try something else.

#2 seems like a decent idea. As an EXP for many years, AA is operationally a disaster. It's getting to the point that I may need to switch as it's starting to affect the reason I have to travel. Couple this operational cluster with Oasis, and you have a winning strategy to chase people away.


I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude here but this is a perfect example of the kool aid I’m talking about. Dal 2018 total revenue was just under 44B, while AA did 44.5B. You must be talking about profit. Yes AA needs to improve their reliability and operation over all. I’d guess the discrepancy in profit between dal and AA can be attributed to waste by not running a efficient, on time, reliable airline. But the stuff with the seats is non sense sorry. Btw did anyone notice United’s new Max’s? No ptvs.


Yes, I'm talking about Profit. Revenue is meaningless as a standalone metric - AA is bigger , revenue should be higher. The fact that it's so close despite the size difference further reinforces my point.

Whether it comes down to seats or not is your speculation.

FTR, I do 100 -150k a year on American and very rarely fly DL. So I'm not trying to prop DL up for fun. I just do recognize that they are doing a better job, and the numbers back it up. AA needs to do something else, other than just be a poor mans imitation of DL.



892 mainline jets at dal and 952 at AA. Not that huge of a difference. As a frequent flyer you must notice that you’re flying on new airplane with AA? How about the admirals clubs all over the system? Terminal updates? That’s 25B dollars of investment by AA in the last 5 years. Again I see your point with the operation, but when people get on here and complain about AA coach seats, then say “deltas got the right idea”, it’s non sense. Btw delta MD jets are so cheap to operate for them that’s it’s a hell of a profit maker. AA decided to go a different route and retire theirs. That probably cost them in the short term.
 
JFKMan
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:46 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:42 am

flyboy80 wrote:
Are they really worse than all of DLs reconfigured aircraft such as MD90s, The 199 seat 752, 234 seat 753 and airbus airplanes with lavatories literally in the galleys? I guess DL has TVs on most aircraft and a few snacks AA doesn’t have but generally I find AA planes cleaner than DLs. I haven’t been on a newer Oasis or max plane, but I can’t imagine it’s much tighter than the DL 737-900 which is pretty tight compared to Alaska and with no mid lavatory like United. Don’t all carriers with modern 737s, AS, UA, DL use the slim lavatorys that AA is now installing?



Yes. Only AA gets heat for this... yet I was on a DL 739 last week with the same slim tiny bathrooms.
NYC
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:45 am

They have yet to remove a single seat IFE yet we have all these made up accounts of people refusing to fly AA for that reason?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25656
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:47 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
They have yet to remove a single seat IFE yet we have all these made up accounts of people refusing to fly AA for that reason?


738s have already begun to have IFE removed.
a.

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