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itripreport
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:35 am

Here's the thing, does a family of 5 carry 5 tablets? For me, I do not like the fact that I have to use my phone to watch a movie, when I much prefer having a movie playing on a screen, while I could be replying to emails or working on my device. A small 5 inch screen will never replace an 11 inch screen, and at one point, one will get tired of just looking at their phone all of the time. As an AA Platinum, I think that American took a step in the wrong direction with the entire oasis retrofit. There's a reason they dropped the "Going for great" marketing campaign
 
Detroit313
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:24 am

OB1504 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
stock1985 wrote:
Does anyone have any sense how much negative feedback AA is hearing re: Oasis / 737MAX? I cannot get on this plane in any class and be comfortable - no padding in the seat, the FAs having to do a manual safety demo (insane in 2019!), the seat pitch and the crazy lack of space!


And, to make it worse, the safety demo announcements are automated while the FAs are demonstrating using the seat belts, etc. That's even crazier, in my opinion.


On my most recent MAX flight I overheard some passengers commenting about how they must be on an old plane because of the manual safety demonstration.



They were on a plane that has tablet holders at every seat, a USB port next to the tablet holders, power ports at every seat, gigantic bins that literally can fit anything in them, mood lighting and they thought it was an old plane? That shows how ignorant the general public that doesn't fly often is.
 
Byrdluvs747
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:36 am

Detroit313 wrote:
They were on a plane that has tablet holders at every seat, a USB port next to the tablet holders, power ports at every seat, gigantic bins that literally can fit anything in them, mood lighting and they thought it was an old plane? That shows how ignorant the general public that doesn't fly often is.


Maybe, but it also shows that DL, B6, and maybe others are creating an experience that makes AA's product look dated.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
Detroit313
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:12 am

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
They were on a plane that has tablet holders at every seat, a USB port next to the tablet holders, power ports at every seat, gigantic bins that literally can fit anything in them, mood lighting and they thought it was an old plane? That shows how ignorant the general public that doesn't fly often is.


Maybe, but it also shows that DL, B6, and maybe others are creating an experience that makes AA's product look dated.


I doubt Delta, an airline that still flies hundreds of MD80s, MD90S and 717s, makes United and American look dated.
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:39 pm

One only has to walk down the isle of a DL AVOD equipped plane and a non-AVOD AA 738 to see who's winning from an onboard experience perspective. From my own experience (hundreds of flights), at least 70% of passengers have their PTVs on and are using them if the plane is so equipped. Look to see how many are streaming content on a non-AVOD equipped plane. It's by far less than half. When DL initially rolled out PTVs on their Ex-Song aircraft and some 737-800s eons ago they would survey passengers after the flight. I don't remember the full details but by in large people thought they were on newer, cleaner planes with better service if they just came off an ex-song plane. Some of those Ex-Song planes were from the 80s... There was really no substantial difference in aircraft between the Ex-Song 757 and a regular 757, but the perception was better. Recently I flew an Airbus 320 from Atlanta to Love field. I sat in 4A. The people in the row behind me remarked, "Wow! We're on a brand new plane!". Of course, I didn't have the hear to tell them the plane was over 23 years old...
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:42 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Byrdluvs747 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
They were on a plane that has tablet holders at every seat, a USB port next to the tablet holders, power ports at every seat, gigantic bins that literally can fit anything in them, mood lighting and they thought it was an old plane? That shows how ignorant the general public that doesn't fly often is.


Maybe, but it also shows that DL, B6, and maybe others are creating an experience that makes AA's product look dated.


I doubt Delta, an airline that still flies hundreds of MD80s, MD90S and 717s, makes United and American look dated.


If you get off a DL MD-88 and then get on an AA Super 80, then yes, DL is making AA look totally dated.

Image
Image
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
Detroit313
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:48 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Byrdluvs747 wrote:

Maybe, but it also shows that DL, B6, and maybe others are creating an experience that makes AA's product look dated.


I doubt Delta, an airline that still flies hundreds of MD80s, MD90S and 717s, makes United and American look dated.


If you get off a DL MD-88 and then get on an AA Super 80, then yes, DL is making AA look totally dated.

Image
Image


Except AA only has 28 MD80s whereas Delta still has tons of MD80s, MD90s and 717s.
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:02 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

I doubt Delta, an airline that still flies hundreds of MD80s, MD90S and 717s, makes United and American look dated.


If you get off a DL MD-88 and then get on an AA Super 80, then yes, DL is making AA look totally dated.

Image
Image


Except AA only has 28 MD80s whereas Delta still has tons of MD80s, MD90s and 717s.


Correct - and while DL is winding down operations with the MD-88 and MD-90, it's still a better experience than an Oasis equipped plane - something becoming the standard at AA.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
ABEguy
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:14 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:

If you get off a DL MD-88 and then get on an AA Super 80, then yes, DL is making AA look totally dated.

Image
Image


Except AA only has 28 MD80s whereas Delta still has tons of MD80s, MD90s and 717s.


Correct - and while DL is winding down operations with the MD-88 and MD-90, it's still a better experience than an Oasis equipped plane - something becoming the standard at AA.


I like how you used AA economy class photo to compare with Deltas first. CNN is that you? I was on a dal 88 not long ago in economy. Knees jammed in the seat in front. Dal 88s are configured for 149, AA is 140. Where are you getting your analysis from?
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:32 pm

ABEguy wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

Except AA only has 28 MD80s whereas Delta still has tons of MD80s, MD90s and 717s.


Correct - and while DL is winding down operations with the MD-88 and MD-90, it's still a better experience than an Oasis equipped plane - something becoming the standard at AA.


I like how you used AA economy class photo to compare with Deltas first. CNN is that you? I was on a dal 88 not long ago in economy. Knees jammed in the seat in front. Dal 88s are configured for 149, AA is 140. Where are you getting your analysis from?


The photo really doesn't matter. You can see coach seats in both. If you want to compare AA MD83 to DL MD88 the average passenger would know they're on a dinosaur on an AA Mad Dog. The DL Mad Dog has been completely refurbished and appears much newer. Also keep in mind that DL removed the rear galley in their MD88s, which gave more room for seats. We can go back and forth on specifics here and there, but you can't argue that DL doesnt have a more consistent updated domestic fleet from a passengers perspective, and when comparing the future of the domestic fleet (A220, A319-320-321, 738/739, 752/753), DL passengers will have an overall better experience with PTVs, 2KU WiFi, larger pivot bins for bags, etc.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
ABEguy
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:07 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:

Correct - and while DL is winding down operations with the MD-88 and MD-90, it's still a better experience than an Oasis equipped plane - something becoming the standard at AA.


I like how you used AA economy class photo to compare with Deltas first. CNN is that you? I was on a dal 88 not long ago in economy. Knees jammed in the seat in front. Dal 88s are configured for 149, AA is 140. Where are you getting your analysis from?


The photo really doesn't matter. You can see coach seats in both. If you want to compare AA MD83 to DL MD88 the average passenger would know they're on a dinosaur on an AA Mad Dog. The DL Mad Dog has been completely refurbished and appears much newer. Also keep in mind that DL removed the rear galley in their MD88s, which gave more room for seats. We can go back and forth on specifics here and there, but you can't argue that DL doesnt have a more consistent updated domestic fleet from a passengers perspective, and when comparing the future of the domestic fleet (A220, A319-320-321, 738/739, 752/753), DL passengers will have an overall better experience with PTVs, 2KU WiFi, larger pivot bins for bags, etc.


Of course I can argue that point. AA has a much newer fleet over all than dal right now. All the 737s are either being retrofitted with larger bins or being delivered with them. Same for the 321s. Satalite wifi is almost finished being installed on the entire fleet. And if we’re going to compare future fleets, AA is replacing their 767s and some older 777-2s with brand new dreamliners. Delta runs a better and more on time operation. And they’ll have TVs. Those points you can actually argue. Pretending that dal has a more updated fleet is completely false. And by the way I can see 1/2 of an economy seat in the Delta photo. Let’s not pretend that wasn’t strategic
Last edited by ABEguy on Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ABEguy
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:08 pm

ABEguy wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
ABEguy wrote:

I like how you used AA economy class photo to compare with Deltas first. CNN is that you? I was on a dal 88 not long ago in economy. Knees jammed in the seat in front. Dal 88s are configured for 149, AA is 140. Where are you getting your analysis from?


The photo really doesn't matter. You can see coach seats in both. If you want to compare AA MD83 to DL MD88 the average passenger would know they're on a dinosaur on an AA Mad Dog. The DL Mad Dog has been completely refurbished and appears much newer. Also keep in mind that DL removed the rear galley in their MD88s, which gave more room for seats. We can go back and forth on specifics here and there, but you can't argue that DL doesnt have a more consistent updated domestic fleet from a passengers perspective, and when comparing the future of the domestic fleet (A220, A319-320-321, 738/739, 752/753), DL passengers will have an overall better experience with PTVs, 2KU WiFi, larger pivot bins for bags, etc.


Of course I can argue that point. AA has a much newer fleet over all than dal right now. All the 737s are either being retrofitted with larger bins or being delivered with them. Same for the 321s. Satalite wifi is almost finished being installed on the entire fleet. And if we’re going to compare future fleets, AA is replacing their 767s and some older 777-2s with brand new dreamliners. Delta runs a better and more on time operation. And they’ll have TVs. Those points you can actually argue. Pretending that dal has a more updated fleet is completely false. And btw I can see one half of an economy seat on your dal photo. Let’s not pretend that wasn’t Strategic
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:19 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:

And, to make it worse, the safety demo announcements are automated while the FAs are demonstrating using the seat belts, etc. That's even crazier, in my opinion.


On my most recent MAX flight I overheard some passengers commenting about how they must be on an old plane because of the manual safety demonstration.



They were on a plane that has tablet holders at every seat, a USB port next to the tablet holders, power ports at every seat, gigantic bins that literally can fit anything in them, mood lighting and they thought it was an old plane? That shows how ignorant the general public that doesn't fly often is.


And once they visit the lavatory, they will notice the ashtray.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:21 pm

Ishrion wrote:
In 2017, American Airlines began installing more seats with their "Project Oasis" starting with the brand new 737 MAX.

The idea was to "harmonize" the fleet by removing IFEs from LAA planes, decreasing seat pitch from 31 to 30 inches, and increasing the seat count on all planes.

The Seat Counts:

LAA 737: 160 -> 172

LAA a321 181 -> 190
LUS a321 187 -> 190

As well as debuting the 737 MAX and a321neo with 172 and 196 seats respectively.

The new configurations were negatively received by many flyers.

Now, in the past months and especially past few days, there have been rumors circulating around the Oasis Project.

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... -in-coach/
https://twitter.com/TheForwardCabin/sta ... 2041845762
https://mobile.twitter.com/xJonNYC/stat ... 5140833280

There is a possibility of reducing seat count and increasing space with the removal of some seats.

Hopefully they end up improving something.


A US airline increasing space? Who would have thunk it......
 
LovePrunesAnet
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:15 pm

On top of all that I can't even get my Wi-Fi to stay connected after my Android pie update. Can't even watch the streaming vids on my phone in flight. Grrrrr.
 
gonnagetbumpy
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:06 pm

ABEguy wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
ABEguy wrote:

I like how you used AA economy class photo to compare with Deltas first. CNN is that you? I was on a dal 88 not long ago in economy. Knees jammed in the seat in front. Dal 88s are configured for 149, AA is 140. Where are you getting your analysis from?


The photo really doesn't matter. You can see coach seats in both. If you want to compare AA MD83 to DL MD88 the average passenger would know they're on a dinosaur on an AA Mad Dog. The DL Mad Dog has been completely refurbished and appears much newer. Also keep in mind that DL removed the rear galley in their MD88s, which gave more room for seats. We can go back and forth on specifics here and there, but you can't argue that DL doesnt have a more consistent updated domestic fleet from a passengers perspective, and when comparing the future of the domestic fleet (A220, A319-320-321, 738/739, 752/753), DL passengers will have an overall better experience with PTVs, 2KU WiFi, larger pivot bins for bags, etc.


Of course I can argue that point. AA has a much newer fleet over all than dal right now. All the 737s are either being retrofitted with larger bins or being delivered with them. Same for the 321s. Satalite wifi is almost finished being installed on the entire fleet. And if we’re going to compare future fleets, AA is replacing their 767s and some older 777-2s with brand new dreamliners. Delta runs a better and more on time operation. And they’ll have TVs. Those points you can actually argue. Pretending that dal has a more updated fleet is completely false. And by the way I can see 1/2 of an economy seat in the Delta photo. Let’s not pretend that wasn’t strategic



Certainly have to disagree with you. Although AA has a newer fleet, Delta has renovated their interiors on most older aircraft (T tails being the exception). The MD-88 / MD-90 are retiring quickly. Delta, by far, has the most consistent and customer friendly interiors of the US legacies (including two class regional planes). I think the biggest outlier is the Delta One product on 767 planes.
 
KAUSavgeek
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:21 pm

I think people have turned this into the classic DL vs AA argument, thats not what the post is for. This post was to address the rumor that American was rethinking their Oasis choice, and that is something I think most people would like to hear about
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:16 pm

CMH2578 wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
If you look at an IFE from a cost-benefit analysis, it makes perfectly sound sense why IFE on domestic product is going away on UA and AA. All you Delta fanboys can crow about how much you and passengers love IFE now. But what everyone so far in this thread fails to take into account is how quickly technology ages. Objectively I think UA and AA's strategy will prevail.

Delta will be met with a pretty shitty proposition if you ask me. Do they: a) invest in replacing their tech every 5-10 years (very costly) or b) let the tech sit there for 20-30 years and give off an archaic vibe and leaving them stranded? (poor product) Delta is at the mercy of the tech companies to keep their product relevant. Seems like a losing battle to me.


Actually, DL has taken their seatback screen hardware in house. Initially partnering with Gogo Inflight, Delta has taken on commercialization with their wholy-owned subsidiary Delta Inflight Products.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2019/01/20/delta-flight-products-expands-ife-platform-to-be-totally-delta-sourced/

https://news.delta.com/3-ways-delta-flight-products-revolutionizing-aircraft-interiors

Their in-house designed seatback screen uses a commercial-grade tablet (not literally a tablet you hold, see the photo below) at its core. This allows software and hardware to be upgraded as needed in the future at a fraction of the cost to the proprietaries systems on the market today. Additionally, the system is wireless-based, which saves one lbs/seat in wiring. Delta has said that the new system costs approximately a fourth of what they are/were current buying from outside vendors (read: Panasonic).

Image


This is interesting; thanks for posting. Does this mean the DL planes don't have the annoying under seat boxes that the AA planes (with personal IFE) have?
 
Miamiairport
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:24 pm

ABEguy wrote:
Antarius wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Why would AA back off from industry-standard? There's no point. There's no revenue premium in giving people more when they don't even know they're getting it. AA is way behind on these changes.

This misinformation assault on AA needs to stop. The bloggers are only misleading their readers.


The revenue number do not lie. DL is beating the shit out of AA. So AA can either 1. Double down on the strategy that seems to allow DL to beat the shit out of them 2. Try something else.

#2 seems like a decent idea. As an EXP for many years, AA is operationally a disaster. It's getting to the point that I may need to switch as it's starting to affect the reason I have to travel. Couple this operational cluster with Oasis, and you have a winning strategy to chase people away.


I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude here but this is a perfect example of the kool aid I’m talking about. Dal 2018 total revenue was just under 44B, while AA did 44.5B. You must be talking about profit. Yes AA needs to improve their reliability and operation over all. I’d guess the discrepancy in profit between dal and AA can be attributed to waste by not running a efficient, on time, reliable airline. But the stuff with the seats is non sense sorry. Btw did anyone notice United’s new Max’s? No ptvs.


This argument wagers on FT too. AA would eat millions on sunk costs not to mention likely miss revenue projects if it abandon Oasis. Parker is a creature of Wall Street. If something doesn't meet a ROI it goes. AVOD couldn't and its getting ripped out. Neither could the bulkhead wall that used to be between Y and F so it's being ripped out and a piece of cheap $5 plastic put in it's place. Whether this will be AA's undoing (or more specific Parker) who knows. I argue how much does this impact EXPs and CKs and how many EXPs and CKs (other than the few loud ones on FT) are walking away from AA because they don't like the cheaply made domestic F seats. Particularly those that fly AA because of being a hub captive or required as per corporate travel policy.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:30 am

You obviously don't fly Delta so just stay out of this...

For everyone else, Delta's M88, M90 and 717's all over new interiors within last decade.

Detroit313 wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

I doubt Delta, an airline that still flies hundreds of MD80s, MD90S and 717s, makes United and American look dated.


If you get off a DL MD-88 and then get on an AA Super 80, then yes, DL is making AA look totally dated.

Image
Image


Except AA only has 28 MD80s whereas Delta still has tons of MD80s, MD90s and 717s.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:34 am

Great post.

Dougie's past shows he's about as minimal investment as possible to remain competitive. He learned it at Northwest and since he got to HP he's lived it. Remember US was the last airline to get basic wifi because he and his crew didn't want to invest in the product. It was only after seeing a revenue erosion over lack of internet, that it went forward. Same thing with First Class on E-jets and CRJ's - the last major airline to add a front cabin service.

These are just a few of the many reasons nothing happening at AA surprises me. In fact it's almost like another management team is running international because it's so foreign to DP and his management team.

Miamiairport wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
Antarius wrote:

The revenue number do not lie. DL is beating the shit out of AA. So AA can either 1. Double down on the strategy that seems to allow DL to beat the shit out of them 2. Try something else.

#2 seems like a decent idea. As an EXP for many years, AA is operationally a disaster. It's getting to the point that I may need to switch as it's starting to affect the reason I have to travel. Couple this operational cluster with Oasis, and you have a winning strategy to chase people away.


I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude here but this is a perfect example of the kool aid I’m talking about. Dal 2018 total revenue was just under 44B, while AA did 44.5B. You must be talking about profit. Yes AA needs to improve their reliability and operation over all. I’d guess the discrepancy in profit between dal and AA can be attributed to waste by not running a efficient, on time, reliable airline. But the stuff with the seats is non sense sorry. Btw did anyone notice United’s new Max’s? No ptvs.


This argument wagers on FT too. AA would eat millions on sunk costs not to mention likely miss revenue projects if it abandon Oasis. Parker is a creature of Wall Street. If something doesn't meet a ROI it goes. AVOD couldn't and its getting ripped out. Neither could the bulkhead wall that used to be between Y and F so it's being ripped out and a piece of cheap $5 plastic put in it's place. Whether this will be AA's undoing (or more specific Parker) who knows. I argue how much does this impact EXPs and CKs and how many EXPs and CKs (other than the few loud ones on FT) are walking away from AA because they don't like the cheaply made domestic F seats. Particularly those that fly AA because of being a hub captive or required as per corporate travel policy.
 
FlyingLaw1
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:05 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:57 am

I flew my first Max 8 yesterday. MIA-MCO. Other than its quiet and the over head bins are huge. Wow. Terrible. I’m tall so I usually pay for F and MCE. Didn’t on This flight cause it’s so short.... that was a mistake. I was so ready to be off by the time we landed.
 
CMH2578
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:52 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:06 am

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
CMH2578 wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
If you look at an IFE from a cost-benefit analysis, it makes perfectly sound sense why IFE on domestic product is going away on UA and AA. All you Delta fanboys can crow about how much you and passengers love IFE now. But what everyone so far in this thread fails to take into account is how quickly technology ages. Objectively I think UA and AA's strategy will prevail.

Delta will be met with a pretty shitty proposition if you ask me. Do they: a) invest in replacing their tech every 5-10 years (very costly) or b) let the tech sit there for 20-30 years and give off an archaic vibe and leaving them stranded? (poor product) Delta is at the mercy of the tech companies to keep their product relevant. Seems like a losing battle to me.


Actually, DL has taken their seatback screen hardware in house. Initially partnering with Gogo Inflight, Delta has taken on commercialization with their wholy-owned subsidiary Delta Inflight Products.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2019/01/20/delta-flight-products-expands-ife-platform-to-be-totally-delta-sourced/

https://news.delta.com/3-ways-delta-flight-products-revolutionizing-aircraft-interiors

Their in-house designed seatback screen uses a commercial-grade tablet (not literally a tablet you hold, see the photo below) at its core. This allows software and hardware to be upgraded as needed in the future at a fraction of the cost to the proprietaries systems on the market today. Additionally, the system is wireless-based, which saves one lbs/seat in wiring. Delta has said that the new system costs approximately a fourth of what they are/were current buying from outside vendors (read: Panasonic).

Image


This is interesting; thanks for posting. Does this mean the DL planes don't have the annoying under seat boxes that the AA planes (with personal IFE) have?


Correct, though I don't believe the newest generation Panasonic setback screens have under seat boxes. I have never noticed them on aircraft with 10.1" screens in main cabin, which the select 737-700/738 (some have the small screens) and all of the 739, 757, 767ER, refit 777s, A319, A320, A321, A330, and A350 fleet have. 764s have old screens but are being refit with the new wireless screen as are new build A330-900s.

The wireless-based setback screen and under seat pictured below on the A220.

Image
 
ckfred
Posts: 5188
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:07 am

Random observations:

1. I don't think AA is about to bring back seatback IFE on the narrowbody fleet. A TV personality once told of a flight from New York to ORD, probably 5 or 6 years ago, with a United vice president who said that IFE might disappear, simply because so many people bring a phone, tablet, or laptop with music, movies, TV shows, and other entertainment downloaded, or they want to stream entertainment on their devices. UA was having the discussion at the time about whether to invest in better IFE systems or better Wi-Fi, so that passengers can stream from the airline's library or from other internet sites.

2. There is still the problem of the small lavs on the 737 MAX fleet. Boeing doesn't offer the bigger lav found on the 737NG. Now, there is a federal suit pending, IIRC, filed by a veterans' group, claiming that the smaller lavs on narrowbodies violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. If that suit is ultimately successful, every operator of 737 MAX aircraft will have to rip out their lavs, and Boeing will have to go back to the lav on the NG line.

3. What will be interesting, if AA does start removing seats, is whether the MAX will get a hard bulkhead between F and Y. Right now, it's a curtain, common on 2-class RJs, that hangs from the overheads. Yes, the curtain is lighter than a bulkhead. Yes, 4 of the 6 passengers in the first row of Y can put items under the seats in the last row of F. But, a lot of F passengers still think that there should be a bulkhead separating the F and Y cabins.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1759
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:09 am

Miamiairport wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
Antarius wrote:

The revenue number do not lie. DL is beating the shit out of AA. So AA can either 1. Double down on the strategy that seems to allow DL to beat the shit out of them 2. Try something else.

#2 seems like a decent idea. As an EXP for many years, AA is operationally a disaster. It's getting to the point that I may need to switch as it's starting to affect the reason I have to travel. Couple this operational cluster with Oasis, and you have a winning strategy to chase people away.


I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude here but this is a perfect example of the kool aid I’m talking about. Dal 2018 total revenue was just under 44B, while AA did 44.5B. You must be talking about profit. Yes AA needs to improve their reliability and operation over all. I’d guess the discrepancy in profit between dal and AA can be attributed to waste by not running a efficient, on time, reliable airline. But the stuff with the seats is non sense sorry. Btw did anyone notice United’s new Max’s? No ptvs.


This argument wagers on FT too. AA would eat millions on sunk costs not to mention likely miss revenue projects if it abandon Oasis. Parker is a creature of Wall Street. If something doesn't meet a ROI it goes. AVOD couldn't and its getting ripped out. Neither could the bulkhead wall that used to be between Y and F so it's being ripped out and a piece of cheap $5 plastic put in it's place. Whether this will be AA's undoing (or more specific Parker) who knows. I argue how much does this impact EXPs and CKs and how many EXPs and CKs (other than the few loud ones on FT) are walking away from AA because they don't like the cheaply made domestic F seats. Particularly those that fly AA because of being a hub captive or required as per corporate travel policy.


Why would they eat millions now? They could easily reconfigure back the few 738s that have been Oasised, and they could easily change the configuration of 7M8s that are yet to be delivered. If AA is planning on densifying and ripping PTVs out of 32Bs, doesn't that also cost money? So LCC management is willing to spend money to degrade their product but not enhance it? Or not even enhance it but keep it as is! It's no wonder AA's margins lag far behind DL's.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:13 am

ckfred wrote:
Random observations:

1. I don't think AA is about to bring back seatback IFE on the narrowbody fleet. A TV personality once told of a flight from New York to ORD, probably 5 or 6 years ago, with a United vice president who said that IFE might disappear, simply because so many people bring a phone, tablet, or laptop with music, movies, TV shows, and other entertainment downloaded, or they want to stream entertainment on their devices. UA was having the discussion at the time about whether to invest in better IFE systems or better Wi-Fi, so that passengers can stream from the airline's library or from other internet sites.

2. There is still the problem of the small lavs on the 737 MAX fleet. Boeing doesn't offer the bigger lav found on the 737NG. Now, there is a federal suit pending, IIRC, filed by a veterans' group, claiming that the smaller lavs on narrowbodies violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. If that suit is ultimately successful, every operator of 737 MAX aircraft will have to rip out their lavs, and Boeing will have to go back to the lav on the NG line.

3. What will be interesting, if AA does start removing seats, is whether the MAX will get a hard bulkhead between F and Y. Right now, it's a curtain, common on 2-class RJs, that hangs from the overheads. Yes, the curtain is lighter than a bulkhead. Yes, 4 of the 6 passengers in the first row of Y can put items under the seats in the last row of F. But, a lot of F passengers still think that there should be a bulkhead separating the F and Y cabins.


(2) is very interesting - I did not know that there was an actual lawsuit filed! Thanks for sharing.

As to (1) - you're probably right - it would be beneath Dougie to admit a mistake, but it's really curious to me that DL continues to invest in PTVs while AA and UA don't. And last I checked, DL was by far the better performing airline despite having arguably the weakest alliance and worst FFP.
Last edited by 9w748capt on Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
B764er
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:14 am

Looks like the "sardineliner" is slowly becoming a reality. From "A^A" they will be known as "O^O!"
 
B764er
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:15 am

Looks like the "sardineliner" is slowly becoming a reality. From "A^A" they will be known as "O^O!"
 
global2
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:20 am

CMH2578 wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
If you look at an IFE from a cost-benefit analysis, it makes perfectly sound sense why IFE on domestic product is going away on UA and AA. All you Delta fanboys can crow about how much you and passengers love IFE now. But what everyone so far in this thread fails to take into account is how quickly technology ages. Objectively I think UA and AA's strategy will prevail.

Delta will be met with a pretty shitty proposition if you ask me. Do they: a) invest in replacing their tech every 5-10 years (very costly) or b) let the tech sit there for 20-30 years and give off an archaic vibe and leaving them stranded? (poor product) Delta is at the mercy of the tech companies to keep their product relevant. Seems like a losing battle to me.


Actually, DL has taken their seatback screen hardware in house. Initially partnering with Gogo Inflight, Delta has taken on commercialization with their wholy-owned subsidiary Delta Inflight Products.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2019/01/20/delta-flight-products-expands-ife-platform-to-be-totally-delta-sourced/

https://news.delta.com/3-ways-delta-flight-products-revolutionizing-aircraft-interiors

Their in-house designed seatback screen uses a commercial-grade tablet (not literally a tablet you hold, see the photo below) at its core. This allows software and hardware to be upgraded as needed in the future at a fraction of the cost to the proprietaries systems on the market today. Additionally, the system is wireless-based, which saves one lbs/seat in wiring. Delta has said that the new system costs approximately a fourth of what they are/were current buying from outside vendors (read: Panasonic).

Image


Wow, that is a really innovative solution and shows what a real investment they have chosen to make in their hard product. I've been a loyal AA flyer for nearly 20 years so it pains me to see them taking a totally opposite approach.
 
CMH2578
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:32 am

9w748capt wrote:
ckfred wrote:
Random observations:

1. I don't think AA is about to bring back seatback IFE on the narrowbody fleet. A TV personality once told of a flight from New York to ORD, probably 5 or 6 years ago, with a United vice president who said that IFE might disappear, simply because so many people bring a phone, tablet, or laptop with music, movies, TV shows, and other entertainment downloaded, or they want to stream entertainment on their devices. UA was having the discussion at the time about whether to invest in better IFE systems or better Wi-Fi, so that passengers can stream from the airline's library or from other internet sites.

2. There is still the problem of the small lavs on the 737 MAX fleet. Boeing doesn't offer the bigger lav found on the 737NG. Now, there is a federal suit pending, IIRC, filed by a veterans' group, claiming that the smaller lavs on narrowbodies violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. If that suit is ultimately successful, every operator of 737 MAX aircraft will have to rip out their lavs, and Boeing will have to go back to the lav on the NG line.

3. What will be interesting, if AA does start removing seats, is whether the MAX will get a hard bulkhead between F and Y. Right now, it's a curtain, common on 2-class RJs, that hangs from the overheads. Yes, the curtain is lighter than a bulkhead. Yes, 4 of the 6 passengers in the first row of Y can put items under the seats in the last row of F. But, a lot of F passengers still think that there should be a bulkhead separating the F and Y cabins.


(2) is very interesting - I did not know that there was an actual lawsuit filed! Thanks for sharing.

As to (1) - you're probably right - it would be beneath Dougie to admit a mistake, but it's really curious to me that DL continues to invest in PTVs while AA and UA don't. And last I checked, DL was by far the better performing airline despite having arguably the weakest alliance and worst FFP.


I think the answer is clear. DL has similarly configured aircraft but they do not have near the pushback. When I say pushback, I am referring to net promoter scores (the likelihood a customer is to recommend a brand after patronage) associated with aircraft type. This is because DL has focused on keeping planes more modern on the inside (clearly not talking about the age of the plane), which includes design elements, LED mood lighting, and seatback screens. These combine to make the travel experience better and detract from the seat pitch and small lavs.

AA simply thought they could copy the densification program without spending the extra money on the pretty stuff/fluff.

AA's net promoter score has dropped YoY in 2018 (as indicated by AA executives in the year-end earnings call). To have this happen with the introduction of a new aircraft and aggressive retrofit (densification) program was likely a shock to executives. I assume this is why they are rumored to be rethinking Project Oasis.
 
musman9853
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:53 am

itripreport wrote:
Here's the thing, does a family of 5 carry 5 tablets? For me, I do not like the fact that I have to use my phone to watch a movie, when I much prefer having a movie playing on a screen, while I could be replying to emails or working on my device. A small 5 inch screen will never replace an 11 inch screen, and at one point, one will get tired of just looking at their phone all of the time. As an AA Platinum, I think that American took a step in the wrong direction with the entire oasis retrofit. There's a reason they dropped the "Going for great" marketing campaign



Except foldables will almost certainly replace tablets. The tech sector moves way too fast to commit to tech that's gonna be obsolete a couple of years later
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musman9853
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:54 am

fanoftristars wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:

If you get off a DL MD-88 and then get on an AA Super 80, then yes, DL is making AA look totally dated.

Image
Image


Except AA only has 28 MD80s whereas Delta still has tons of MD80s, MD90s and 717s.


Correct - and while DL is winding down operations with the MD-88 and MD-90, it's still a better experience than an Oasis equipped plane - something becoming the standard at AA.


At least you'll still be able to hear after flying in a 737.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:07 pm

Likely there are penalties AA would be required to pay the MROs that are conducting the cabin modifications if AA were to abandon the project. Not to mention all of the material needed to complete mods over some future fixed point would be the financial responsibility of AA. Therefore, yes AA could be looking at millions in sunk costs. Again, not to mention that revenue projections for 2019 and 2020 were based upon more seats in narrowbody a/c.

I read the comments from posters claiming that AA won't be able to fill all those seats and it will become a financial burden. This is not like additional capacity by acquiring more planes. The additional costs of those seats is basically tied to some modest more fuel burn from the weight of the seats and that's about it. In no case will an additional FA be required. AA doesn't need to sell all those seats for it to be profitable.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:15 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
I read the comments from posters claiming that AA won't be able to fill all those seats and it will become a financial burden. This is not like additional capacity by acquiring more planes. The additional costs of those seats is basically tied to some modest more fuel burn from the weight of the seats and that's about it. In no case will an additional FA be required. AA doesn't need to sell all those seats for it to be profitable.


That's a decent review of the incremental cost for the extra seats. It doesn't address people (in the base seat config) not being willing to pay AA as much as other carriers because they don't like the Oasis experience. Would I be willing to pay AA the same as JetBlue (with AVOD, free sat wifi, and 2-4 inches more seat pitch)? I would not - and I write that as a many-year AAdvantage Plat and million-miler.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:00 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Likely there are penalties AA would be required to pay the MROs that are conducting the cabin modifications if AA were to abandon the project. Not to mention all of the material needed to complete mods over some future fixed point would be the financial responsibility of AA. Therefore, yes AA could be looking at millions in sunk costs. Again, not to mention that revenue projections for 2019 and 2020 were based upon more seats in narrowbody a/c.

That is true, but as you mentioned those are sunk costs at this point, depending on how they choose to pivot some of the costs could be mitigated if they simply choose to modify the Oasis project rather than a outright cancellation the cabin updates...
The executive team has been pushing to reduce the number of subfleets they have through 2020, I suspect they would still proceed with a cabin refresh project, but it could be a modified version of what is currently being installed.
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UpNAWAy
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:05 pm

I think I heard one of the AA executives say the additional 12 seats is worth 1.5 billion $ per aircraft over its lifetime.
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:02 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
I think I heard one of the AA executives say the additional 12 seats is worth 1.5 billion $ per aircraft over its lifetime.


It is if AA can command the same revenue for those seats - but if they slide on RSM, that $1.5 billion goes away.
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OB1504
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:39 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

I doubt Delta, an airline that still flies hundreds of MD80s, MD90S and 717s, makes United and American look dated.


If you get off a DL MD-88 and then get on an AA Super 80, then yes, DL is making AA look totally dated.

Image
Image


Except AA only has 28 MD80s whereas Delta still has tons of MD80s, MD90s and 717s.


AA still has A320s, 757s, and 767s that are just as dated as their MD-82/83s. None of the LUS A320s and only one of the LUS A321s even offer in-seat power, which Delta has across the fleet.

Ziyulu wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:

On my most recent MAX flight I overheard some passengers commenting about how they must be on an old plane because of the manual safety demonstration.



They were on a plane that has tablet holders at every seat, a USB port next to the tablet holders, power ports at every seat, gigantic bins that literally can fit anything in them, mood lighting and they thought it was an old plane? That shows how ignorant the general public that doesn't fly often is.


And once they visit the lavatory, they will notice the ashtray.


IIRC the ashtrays are a federal requirement and aren't up to the airline.

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
CMH2578 wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
If you look at an IFE from a cost-benefit analysis, it makes perfectly sound sense why IFE on domestic product is going away on UA and AA. All you Delta fanboys can crow about how much you and passengers love IFE now. But what everyone so far in this thread fails to take into account is how quickly technology ages. Objectively I think UA and AA's strategy will prevail.

Delta will be met with a pretty shitty proposition if you ask me. Do they: a) invest in replacing their tech every 5-10 years (very costly) or b) let the tech sit there for 20-30 years and give off an archaic vibe and leaving them stranded? (poor product) Delta is at the mercy of the tech companies to keep their product relevant. Seems like a losing battle to me.


Actually, DL has taken their seatback screen hardware in house. Initially partnering with Gogo Inflight, Delta has taken on commercialization with their wholy-owned subsidiary Delta Inflight Products.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2019/01/20/delta-flight-products-expands-ife-platform-to-be-totally-delta-sourced/

https://news.delta.com/3-ways-delta-flight-products-revolutionizing-aircraft-interiors

Their in-house designed seatback screen uses a commercial-grade tablet (not literally a tablet you hold, see the photo below) at its core. This allows software and hardware to be upgraded as needed in the future at a fraction of the cost to the proprietaries systems on the market today. Additionally, the system is wireless-based, which saves one lbs/seat in wiring. Delta has said that the new system costs approximately a fourth of what they are/were current buying from outside vendors (read: Panasonic).

Image


This is interesting; thanks for posting. Does this mean the DL planes don't have the annoying under seat boxes that the AA planes (with personal IFE) have?


I've never noticed the boxes when flying on DL A321s and 757s. I think they're still there somewhere but they're not as intrusive. I've definitely noticed the box on an AA A321 and 767. The latter was particularly egregious because none of the 767s even have in seat IFE to begin with.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:56 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
I think I heard one of the AA executives say the additional 12 seats is worth 1.5 billion $ per aircraft over its lifetime.


It is if AA can command the same revenue for those seats - but if they slide on RSM, that $1.5 billion goes away.

I tend to agree, not knowing the inputs to their analysis makes it tough, but 1.5 billion over 30 years, flying 8 flights for 365 days a year means each of those seats would have to sell for over 1,400 usd every time.... I can already find multiple false assumptions in my back of the envolope calculations I did, if that’s the expected ROI then Generous is an understatement for their forecasts and I’d love whatever is being passed around HQ.
1.4mm and counting...
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:09 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
Correct - and while DL is winding down operations with the MD-88 and MD-90, it's still a better experience than an Oasis equipped plane - something becoming the standard at AA.

Let's see here, narrower F seats, no legroom advantage, no power in most seats, more cabin noise towards the rear, small overheads, old WiFi, no winged headrests,. What else am I missing with Oasis? Oasis is modern and legacy industry standard. It's not something new. It's not something that doesn't work. UA and DL are proof of that.

P.S. AA's "dinosaur" is so much more comfortable. I'll miss those old seats.

CMH2578 wrote:
Correct, though I don't believe the newest generation Panasonic setback screens have under seat boxes. I have never noticed them on aircraft with 10.1" screens in main cabin, which the select 737-700/738 (some have the small screens) and all of the 739, 757, 767ER, refit 777s, A319, A320, A321, A330, and A350 fleet have. 764s have old screens but are being refit with the new wireless screen as are new build A330-900s.


Select 752s and 763s also have the old screens.

ckfred wrote:
2. There is still the problem of the small lavs on the 737 MAX fleet. Boeing doesn't offer the bigger lav found on the 737NG. Now, there is a federal suit pending, IIRC, filed by a veterans' group, claiming that the smaller lavs on narrowbodies violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. If that suit is ultimately successful, every operator of 737 MAX aircraft will have to rip out their lavs, and Boeing will have to go back to the lav on the NG line.


Those small slimline lavs started years ago with the NG. Hundreds of NGs have them. And the Airbus "galley" lavs are just as bad. There's hundreds more of them flying in the U.S. That's a lot of reconfiguration. Ironically AA would be least affected of the big four.

UpNAWAy wrote:
I think I heard one of the AA executives say the additional 12 seats is worth 1.5 billion $ per aircraft over its lifetime.


That's much too high for one airplane. However the added revenue would still be a huge number. I'm getting rough calculations in the tens of millions.

OB1504 wrote:
AA still has A320s, 757s, and 767s that are just as dated as their MD-82/83s. None of the LUS A320s and only one of the LUS A321s even offer in-seat power, which Delta has across the fleet.


DL's MD-88s and MD-90s don't have power at every seat. And another fragment of DL's economy fleet has only USB power.

AA is behind the commonality curve, but when complete their plan will offer more commonality than DL.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:04 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
I think I heard one of the AA executives say the additional 12 seats is worth 1.5 billion $ per aircraft over its lifetime.


It is if AA can command the same revenue for those seats - but if they slide on RSM, that $1.5 billion goes away.

I tend to agree, not knowing the inputs to their analysis makes it tough, but 1.5 billion over 30 years, flying 8 flights for 365 days a year means each of those seats would have to sell for over 1,400 usd every time.... I can already find multiple false assumptions in my back of the envolope calculations I did, if that’s the expected ROI then Generous is an understatement for their forecasts and I’d love whatever is being passed around HQ.

Considering there are refits as well, I can't see the average being more than 20 years. And not 365 days a year per jet. Average 350 per year? And not 8 flights per day average. 6.5?

Atleast $2500 per seat every seat full every day on a one-way fare of average stage length of 3 hours.

I call absolute bull hockey. Unless of course he's not using present value dollars and expects high inflation and fare growth over 15-25 years

$150,000,000 maybe, but that's a factor of 10.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:42 pm

 
Miamiairport
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2019/03/07/breaking-14-american-airlines-oasis-interior-737s-have-been-grounded-due-to-faulty-work/

14 Oasis 737s have been grounded.



The grounding probably has to do with the work performed not the actual cabin configurations. AA management wants to garner the kind of margins from Y that Spirit and Frontier get. They assume that if Spirit and Frontier can fill planes with 28 inch pitch why not 30? They probably also assume a good portion of their business flyers have little choice in carrier and the truly valuable ones (EXP and CK) will rarely have the misery of sitting in one of the 30 inch pitch seats and will just learn to live with the tacky domestic F cabins and domestic crummy F seats. When you're pleasantly stuffed into a 773/772/332 J seat flying to LHR it's easy to forget the miserable experience others sitting behind you are going through.
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:11 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Correct - and while DL is winding down operations with the MD-88 and MD-90, it's still a better experience than an Oasis equipped plane - something becoming the standard at AA.

Let's see here, narrower F seats, no legroom advantage, no power in most seats, more cabin noise towards the rear, small overheads, old WiFi, no winged headrests,. What else am I missing with Oasis? Oasis is modern and legacy industry standard. It's not something new. It's not something that doesn't work. UA and DL are proof of that.

P.S. AA's "dinosaur" is so much more comfortable. I'll miss those old seats.

There definitely is a legroom advantage with 31"-33" pitch in standard coach on the MD88, and 31" on the MD-90. Only 5 seats on the MD-90 are at 30" pitch, and both are quiet except the last few rows. Plus many would argue the 3-2 layout and 1" wider seats are also more comfortable. The Oasis coach seats are hard and uncomfortable compared to coach seats on Delta's Mad Dogs. But as you know it really doesn't matter - They are going away (27 MD-90s in the desert and 41 MD-88s) and what's eventually replacing them is a much better experience for coach passengers (A-220, A321, A321NEO)
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Dieuwer
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:13 pm

Just imagine, an Oasis plane making an emergency landing. Fire breaks out and pax are scrambling to get out of the plane. Unfortunately, due to the tightness of the seat pitch, peoples' legs get tangled up and only the front two rows and exit rows can make it out. The other 150+ people burn to death.

I assume the liability for AA will run into the billions. Parker will flee the country when that happens.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:21 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Just imagine, an Oasis plane making an emergency landing. Fire breaks out and pax are scrambling to get out of the plane. Unfortunately, due to the tightness of the seat pitch, peoples' legs get tangled up and only the front two rows and exit rows can make it out. The other 150+ people burn to death.

I assume the liability for AA will run into the billions. Parker will flee the country when that happens.


Dougie seems to have 9 lives. No matter how $hitty a job he does or how much he trashes AA, he's untouchable. If something like the above happened, Dougie would probably give himself a bonus.
 
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cosyr
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:22 pm

I wonder if any changes could be related to the directive that congress gave the FAA to come up with minimum seat sizes and pitches. I doubt that AA is seeing some writing on the wall, but it would be an interesting move if they were to increase to 31" (with a min of 30"), then go lobby the FAA to set that as the minimum. I doubt it would happen, but it would be devastating to NK, F9, and G4.
 
Swadian
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:24 pm

ckfred wrote:
Random observations:

1. I don't think AA is about to bring back seatback IFE on the narrowbody fleet. A TV personality once told of a flight from New York to ORD, probably 5 or 6 years ago, with a United vice president who said that IFE might disappear, simply because so many people bring a phone, tablet, or laptop with music, movies, TV shows, and other entertainment downloaded, or they want to stream entertainment on their devices. UA was having the discussion at the time about whether to invest in better IFE systems or better Wi-Fi, so that passengers can stream from the airline's library or from other internet sites.

2. There is still the problem of the small lavs on the 737 MAX fleet. Boeing doesn't offer the bigger lav found on the 737NG. Now, there is a federal suit pending, IIRC, filed by a veterans' group, claiming that the smaller lavs on narrowbodies violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. If that suit is ultimately successful, every operator of 737 MAX aircraft will have to rip out their lavs, and Boeing will have to go back to the lav on the NG line.

3. What will be interesting, if AA does start removing seats, is whether the MAX will get a hard bulkhead between F and Y. Right now, it's a curtain, common on 2-class RJs, that hangs from the overheads. Yes, the curtain is lighter than a bulkhead. Yes, 4 of the 6 passengers in the first row of Y can put items under the seats in the last row of F. But, a lot of F passengers still think that there should be a bulkhead separating the F and Y cabins.


I also doubt AA would reinstall the TVs and doubt they'll win the suit and make Boeing replace all the 38M lavs, but perhaps AA would keep the PTVs in existing aircraft that already have them, instead of applying "Oasis treatment".

It's weird we have this discussion about bulkheads. I really couldn't care less if there's a bulkhead between Y and F, and back in the old ship days "bulkheads" actually contributed to structural integrity, and couldn't be replaced with curtains. If one side of the bulkhead floods, it's designed to resist water pressure and keep the ship afloat. What we see on planes is more like glorified plastic divider walls.
 
Swadian
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:27 pm

9w748capt wrote:
ckfred wrote:
Random observations:

1. I don't think AA is about to bring back seatback IFE on the narrowbody fleet. A TV personality once told of a flight from New York to ORD, probably 5 or 6 years ago, with a United vice president who said that IFE might disappear, simply because so many people bring a phone, tablet, or laptop with music, movies, TV shows, and other entertainment downloaded, or they want to stream entertainment on their devices. UA was having the discussion at the time about whether to invest in better IFE systems or better Wi-Fi, so that passengers can stream from the airline's library or from other internet sites.

2. There is still the problem of the small lavs on the 737 MAX fleet. Boeing doesn't offer the bigger lav found on the 737NG. Now, there is a federal suit pending, IIRC, filed by a veterans' group, claiming that the smaller lavs on narrowbodies violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. If that suit is ultimately successful, every operator of 737 MAX aircraft will have to rip out their lavs, and Boeing will have to go back to the lav on the NG line.

3. What will be interesting, if AA does start removing seats, is whether the MAX will get a hard bulkhead between F and Y. Right now, it's a curtain, common on 2-class RJs, that hangs from the overheads. Yes, the curtain is lighter than a bulkhead. Yes, 4 of the 6 passengers in the first row of Y can put items under the seats in the last row of F. But, a lot of F passengers still think that there should be a bulkhead separating the F and Y cabins.


(2) is very interesting - I did not know that there was an actual lawsuit filed! Thanks for sharing.

As to (1) - you're probably right - it would be beneath Dougie to admit a mistake, but it's really curious to me that DL continues to invest in PTVs while AA and UA don't. And last I checked, DL was by far the better performing airline despite having arguably the weakest alliance and worst FFP.


HA and WN are performing much better than DL, and neither have PTVs in narrowbody aircraft. JL also performs well without PTVs despite an excellent product otherwise. AA made a lot of mistakes, only one of which was the PTVs.
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:28 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Just imagine, an Oasis plane making an emergency landing. Fire breaks out and pax are scrambling to get out of the plane. Unfortunately, due to the tightness of the seat pitch, peoples' legs get tangled up and only the front two rows and exit rows can make it out. The other 150+ people burn to death.

I assume the liability for AA will run into the billions. Parker will flee the country when that happens.


All of this is addressed by the manufacturer. These things are tested. There is a maximum density allowed by the FAA. This would be no different than evacuating a spirit or delta plane with similar density.

Obviously it takes longer to evacuate a plane with 150 people than the same plane with only 100 people, but everything is still within the regulatory limits.

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