JAMBOJET
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:28 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Correct - and while DL is winding down operations with the MD-88 and MD-90, it's still a better experience than an Oasis equipped plane - something becoming the standard at AA.

Let's see here, narrower F seats, no legroom advantage, no power in most seats, more cabin noise towards the rear, small overheads, old WiFi, no winged headrests,. What else am I missing with Oasis? Oasis is modern and legacy industry standard. It's not something new. It's not something that doesn't work. UA and DL are proof of that.

P.S. AA's "dinosaur" is so much more comfortable. I'll miss those old seats.

There definitely is a legroom advantage with 31"-33" pitch in standard coach on the MD88, and 31" on the MD-90. Only 5 seats on the MD-90 are at 30" pitch, and both are quiet except the last few rows. Plus many would argue the 3-2 layout and 1" wider seats are also more comfortable. The Oasis coach seats are hard and uncomfortable compared to coach seats on Delta's Mad Dogs. But as you know it really doesn't matter - They are going away (27 MD-90s in the desert and 41 MD-88s) and what's eventually replacing them is a much better experience for coach passengers (A-220, A321, A321NEO)


Love that you bring up the delta incoming A321s... i know you love Delta... but help me out here on this so-called “improved product” coming soon to replace the Delta Mad Dogs...
Delta A321: 192 seats(delta.com also shows a 191 and 189). 30-31” Y pitch. 36” F pitch (oasis is 37” per aa.com)
Delta A321neo: 197 seats announced
Good luck finding any comparison on AA that beats that density on any a321ceo or neo

Delta A220: happy to give Delta the edge on Y pitch per their website at 32”. F pitch at 37”, Same as oasis 738 for their premium passengers

Guess the entire improved product is all Personal TVs? I’m struggling with this incoming “much better experience” claim and specifically mentioning the a321s
Last edited by JAMBOJET on Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:29 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Just imagine, an Oasis plane making an emergency landing. Fire breaks out and pax are scrambling to get out of the plane. Unfortunately, due to the tightness of the seat pitch, peoples' legs get tangled up and only the front two rows and exit rows can make it out. The other 150+ people burn to death.

I assume the liability for AA will run into the billions. Parker will flee the country when that happens.


All of this is addressed by the manufacturer. These things are tested. There is a maximum density allowed by the FAA. This would be no different than evacuating a spirit or delta plane with similar density.

Obviously it takes longer to evacuate a plane with 150 people than the same plane with only 100 people, but everything is still within the regulatory limits.


Sure! :D
 
Swadian
Posts: 538
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:30 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
I think I heard one of the AA executives say the additional 12 seats is worth 1.5 billion $ per aircraft over its lifetime.


It is if AA can command the same revenue for those seats - but if they slide on RSM, that $1.5 billion goes away.


Passengers pay for the lowest fare. That's why everyone put 787 in 9-abreast and 777 in 10-abreast, except JL which seems to command a revenue premium over everyone.
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3296
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:31 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
There definitely is a legroom advantage with 31"-33" pitch in standard coach on the MD88, and 31" on the MD-90. Only 5 seats on the MD-90 are at 30" pitch, and both are quiet except the last few rows. The Oasis coach seats are hard and uncomfortable compared to coach seats on Delta's Mad Dogs. But as you know it really doesn't matter - They are going away (27 MD-90s in the desert and 41 MD-88s) and what's eventually replacing them is a much better experience for coach passengers (A-220, A321, A321NEO)


The MD-88 doesn't have slimline seats. That inch is lost. It's why I said legroom, not pitch. Pitch is an inch more, legroom is essentially the same.

Which 5 seats are only 30" pitch on the MD-90? Pretty incredible work considering that before Comfort+ the seats were all listed at 31". Five rows of Comfort+ at the expense of one inch in one row? Anyway you slice it, the difference between Oasis and industry standard isn't a difference at all.
Last edited by MSPNWA on Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Swadian
Posts: 538
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:32 pm

OB1504 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:

If you get off a DL MD-88 and then get on an AA Super 80, then yes, DL is making AA look totally dated.

Image
Image


Except AA only has 28 MD80s whereas Delta still has tons of MD80s, MD90s and 717s.


AA still has A320s, 757s, and 767s that are just as dated as their MD-82/83s. None of the LUS A320s and only one of the LUS A321s even offer in-seat power, which Delta has across the fleet.


AA's A320, 767, and LAA 757 are far more comfortable than any Oasis plane, and far more comfortable than dense DL 752 or others. Am I the only one who actually likes AA A320 and LAA 752?

AA 763 does fail in everything besides seat comfort.
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:34 pm

Swadian wrote:
HA and WN are performing much better than DL, and neither have PTVs in narrowbody aircraft. JL also performs well without PTVs despite an excellent product otherwise. AA made a lot of mistakes, only one of which was the PTVs.


I always saw the PTV issue a bit differently. Airlines said they wanted to get rid of them due to mainly weight and seatroom (boxes underneath). Why the hell are PTV's so heavy and why do they need these huge boxes? An Ipad costs $200 and is 1lb. The tech is there for light, small tablets. Why has no manufacturer basically built an ipad into the seat for a couple hundred dollars, integrated an Ethernet port/cable and run it to a central streaming switch/box in the galley? Obviously there are certifications, but there is no reason to have these huge outdated PTV screens with lots of heavy equipment/boxes when the tech is there for cheap, light versions.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3640
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:39 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Just imagine, an Oasis plane making an emergency landing. Fire breaks out and pax are scrambling to get out of the plane. Unfortunately, due to the tightness of the seat pitch, peoples' legs get tangled up and only the front two rows and exit rows can make it out. The other 150+ people burn to death.

I assume the liability for AA will run into the billions. Parker will flee the country when that happens.


Hyperbole much? If it hasn’t happened on Allegiant/Frontier/Spirit with their 28” pitch, why would it happen on AA?

Even so, it would be on the FAA for approving those configurations.

cosyr wrote:
I wonder if any changes could be related to the directive that congress gave the FAA to come up with minimum seat sizes and pitches. I doubt that AA is seeing some writing on the wall, but it would be an interesting move if they were to increase to 31" (with a min of 30"), then go lobby the FAA to set that as the minimum. I doubt it would happen, but it would be devastating to NK, F9, and G4.


I also doubt it. It would kill the ULCC market and take away affordable air travel for a lot of Americans.

Swadian wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:

Except AA only has 28 MD80s whereas Delta still has tons of MD80s, MD90s and 717s.


AA still has A320s, 757s, and 767s that are just as dated as their MD-82/83s. None of the LUS A320s and only one of the LUS A321s even offer in-seat power, which Delta has across the fleet.


AA's A320, 767, and LAA 757 are far more comfortable than any Oasis plane, and far more comfortable than dense DL 752 or others. Am I the only one who actually likes AA A320 and LAA 752?

AA 763 does fail in everything besides seat comfort.


They’re more comfortable but the cabins are notably dated.

MKIAZ wrote:
Swadian wrote:
HA and WN are performing much better than DL, and neither have PTVs in narrowbody aircraft. JL also performs well without PTVs despite an excellent product otherwise. AA made a lot of mistakes, only one of which was the PTVs.


I always saw the PTV issue a bit differently. Airlines said they wanted to get rid of them due to mainly weight and seatroom (boxes underneath). Why the hell are PTV's so heavy and why do they need these huge boxes? An Ipad costs $200 and is 1lb. The tech is there for light, small tablets. Why has no manufacturer basically built an ipad into the seat for a couple hundred dollars, integrated an Ethernet port/cable and run it to a central streaming switch/box in the galley? Obviously there are certifications, but there is no reason to have these huge outdated PTV screens with lots of heavy equipment/boxes when the tech is there for cheap, light versions.


That’s exactly what Delta did on their A220.
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1624
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:47 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Let's see here, narrower F seats, no legroom advantage, no power in most seats, more cabin noise towards the rear, small overheads, old WiFi, no winged headrests,. What else am I missing with Oasis? Oasis is modern and legacy industry standard. It's not something new. It's not something that doesn't work. UA and DL are proof of that.

P.S. AA's "dinosaur" is so much more comfortable. I'll miss those old seats.

There definitely is a legroom advantage with 31"-33" pitch in standard coach on the MD88, and 31" on the MD-90. Only 5 seats on the MD-90 are at 30" pitch, and both are quiet except the last few rows. Plus many would argue the 3-2 layout and 1" wider seats are also more comfortable. The Oasis coach seats are hard and uncomfortable compared to coach seats on Delta's Mad Dogs. But as you know it really doesn't matter - They are going away (27 MD-90s in the desert and 41 MD-88s) and what's eventually replacing them is a much better experience for coach passengers (A-220, A321, A321NEO)


Love that you bring up the delta incoming A321s... i know you love Delta... but help me out here on this so-called “improved product” coming soon to replace the Delta Mad Dogs...
Delta A321: 192 seats(delta.com also shows a 191 and 189). 30-31” Y pitch. 36” F pitch (oasis is 37” per aa.com)
Delta A321neo: 197 seats announced
Good luck finding any comparison on AA that beats that density on any a321ceo or neo

Delta A220: happy to give Delta the edge on Y pitch per their website at 32”. F pitch at 37”, Same as oasis 738 for their premium passengers

Guess the entire improved product is all Personal TVs? I’m struggling with this incoming “much better experience” claim and specifically mentioning the a321s


We've had this argument before on another thread, but remember that only a hand full of seats on each plane are at 30" pitch on the A321. Everything else is 31" except of course comfort plus. The difference between 30 and 31 is a much bigger deal than the difference in 36-37 because for 99% of the population, 36" pitch and a wide seat are plenty of room for a domestic flight. The future will prove out that passengers prefer DL domestically and their product can command a premium.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
OB1504
Posts: 3640
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:50 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
There definitely is a legroom advantage with 31"-33" pitch in standard coach on the MD88, and 31" on the MD-90. Only 5 seats on the MD-90 are at 30" pitch, and both are quiet except the last few rows. Plus many would argue the 3-2 layout and 1" wider seats are also more comfortable. The Oasis coach seats are hard and uncomfortable compared to coach seats on Delta's Mad Dogs. But as you know it really doesn't matter - They are going away (27 MD-90s in the desert and 41 MD-88s) and what's eventually replacing them is a much better experience for coach passengers (A-220, A321, A321NEO)


Love that you bring up the delta incoming A321s... i know you love Delta... but help me out here on this so-called “improved product” coming soon to replace the Delta Mad Dogs...
Delta A321: 192 seats(delta.com also shows a 191 and 189). 30-31” Y pitch. 36” F pitch (oasis is 37” per aa.com)
Delta A321neo: 197 seats announced
Good luck finding any comparison on AA that beats that density on any a321ceo or neo

Delta A220: happy to give Delta the edge on Y pitch per their website at 32”. F pitch at 37”, Same as oasis 738 for their premium passengers

Guess the entire improved product is all Personal TVs? I’m struggling with this incoming “much better experience” claim and specifically mentioning the a321s


We've had this argument before on another thread, but remember that only a hand full of seats on each plane are at 30" pitch on the A321. Everything else is 31" except of course comfort plus. The difference between 30 and 31 is a much bigger deal than the difference in 36-37 because for 99% of the population, 36" pitch and a wide seat are plenty of room for a domestic flight. The future will prove out that passengers prefer DL domestically and their product can command a premium.


Also, Delta (unfortunately) put their lavatories in the galley which leaves more space for the seats.

Recent financial results already show that Delta is commanding a premium over AA.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:57 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
There definitely is a legroom advantage with 31"-33" pitch in standard coach on the MD88, and 31" on the MD-90. Only 5 seats on the MD-90 are at 30" pitch, and both are quiet except the last few rows. Plus many would argue the 3-2 layout and 1" wider seats are also more comfortable. The Oasis coach seats are hard and uncomfortable compared to coach seats on Delta's Mad Dogs. But as you know it really doesn't matter - They are going away (27 MD-90s in the desert and 41 MD-88s) and what's eventually replacing them is a much better experience for coach passengers (A-220, A321, A321NEO)


Love that you bring up the delta incoming A321s... i know you love Delta... but help me out here on this so-called “improved product” coming soon to replace the Delta Mad Dogs...
Delta A321: 192 seats(delta.com also shows a 191 and 189). 30-31” Y pitch. 36” F pitch (oasis is 37” per aa.com)
Delta A321neo: 197 seats announced
Good luck finding any comparison on AA that beats that density on any a321ceo or neo

Delta A220: happy to give Delta the edge on Y pitch per their website at 32”. F pitch at 37”, Same as oasis 738 for their premium passengers

Guess the entire improved product is all Personal TVs? I’m struggling with this incoming “much better experience” claim and specifically mentioning the a321s


We've had this argument before on another thread, but remember that only a hand full of seats on each plane are at 30" pitch on the A321. Everything else is 31" except of course comfort plus. The difference between 30 and 31 is a much bigger deal than the difference in 36-37 because for 99% of the population, 36" pitch and a wide seat are plenty of room for a domestic flight. The future will prove out that passengers prefer DL domestically and their product can command a premium.


You’re right. We have had this discussion. Hi again. It’s always a fun and energetic discussion on this topic for any fan of airlines. And I truly do enjoy the exchange with you.
Is there a source for the “only a Few seats are 30” pitch?
I admit, I find the “30-31 matters more than 36-37” argument to be a bit fanboyish “industry-lowest pitch is ok when delta does it in F because it’s ‘more than adequate domestically; delta said so’, but it matters more in Y” where Delta also has 30” pitch but AA does it more on a portion of their 738 fleet.
I mean... the lowest US3 pitch in F or Y is still the lowest and isn’t a product upgrade from any delta plane.
Not sure why we don’t call a spade a spade.
The common response from delta supporters is “it’s just a few seats. 5 seats”
I’m honestly just curious where the source for that is since it’s the default response? It seems to be taken as gospel by some but I’ve personally never seen a source for the claim aside from people with rulers claiming they measured while they flew...

I’d think if it was only 5 seats or 12 seats, delta would just come out and say that. They’re quite good at PR and ops, among other things.
 
gsg013
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:09 pm

AA is miserable I equate flying them to the equivalent of taking a Bus or one of the bad Amtrak Trains... (Plane moves faster) they have stripped everything down to bare bones and just made the flying experience miserable domestically. Yes the 787's and new 777W's are pretty nice up front but for the everyday Joe flying PHL-PHX the product is piss poor.

The firm also is saddled with $25 billion in Debt just not a firm I would either invest in or fly on. My last AA flight 3 weeks ago BNA-MIA (E175) was cramped and then they couldn't figure out how to close the L1 door on the plane which delayed us an hour.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1620
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:12 pm

gsg013 wrote:
AA is miserable I equate flying them to the equivalent of taking a Bus or one of the bad Amtrak Trains... (Plane moves faster) they have stripped everything down to bare bones and just made the flying experience miserable domestically. Yes the 787's and new 777W's are pretty nice up front but for the everyday Joe flying PHL-PHX the product is piss poor.

The firm also is saddled with $25 billion in Debt just not a firm I would either invest in or fly on. My last AA flight 3 weeks ago BNA-MIA (E175) was cramped and then they couldn't figure out how to close the L1 door on the plane which delayed us an hour.


Most AA FFs would agree that the E75 is by far the most comfortable ride on AA these days. If you think the E75 is cramped, what the hell would you think of a 10-abreast 777!
 
OB1504
Posts: 3640
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:21 pm

14 Oasis reconfigured 737-800s have been grounded due to defective overhead bins and possible fire hazard.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/Am ... 31861.html
 
gsg013
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:00 pm

9w748capt wrote:
gsg013 wrote:
AA is miserable I equate flying them to the equivalent of taking a Bus or one of the bad Amtrak Trains... (Plane moves faster) they have stripped everything down to bare bones and just made the flying experience miserable domestically. Yes the 787's and new 777W's are pretty nice up front but for the everyday Joe flying PHL-PHX the product is piss poor.

The firm also is saddled with $25 billion in Debt just not a firm I would either invest in or fly on. My last AA flight 3 weeks ago BNA-MIA (E175) was cramped and then they couldn't figure out how to close the L1 door on the plane which delayed us an hour.


Most AA FFs would agree that the E75 is by far the most comfortable ride on AA these days. If you think the E75 is cramped, what the hell would you think of a 10-abreast 777!


If I was on the 777 I would be in J but I would never fly on the 10 abreast Y seats with 31 inch pitch for 10 hour flights... AA is just miserable
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1620
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:53 pm

gsg013 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
gsg013 wrote:
AA is miserable I equate flying them to the equivalent of taking a Bus or one of the bad Amtrak Trains... (Plane moves faster) they have stripped everything down to bare bones and just made the flying experience miserable domestically. Yes the 787's and new 777W's are pretty nice up front but for the everyday Joe flying PHL-PHX the product is piss poor.

The firm also is saddled with $25 billion in Debt just not a firm I would either invest in or fly on. My last AA flight 3 weeks ago BNA-MIA (E175) was cramped and then they couldn't figure out how to close the L1 door on the plane which delayed us an hour.


Most AA FFs would agree that the E75 is by far the most comfortable ride on AA these days. If you think the E75 is cramped, what the hell would you think of a 10-abreast 777!


If I was on the 777 I would be in J but I would never fly on the 10 abreast Y seats with 31 inch pitch for 10 hour flights... AA is just miserable


Fair enough but then you thought the E75 F seats were cramped? Huh? Again, the most comfortable product AA flies these days IMO.
 
musman9853
Posts: 736
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:51 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Just imagine, an Oasis plane making an emergency landing. Fire breaks out and pax are scrambling to get out of the plane. Unfortunately, due to the tightness of the seat pitch, peoples' legs get tangled up and only the front two rows and exit rows can make it out. The other 150+ people burn to death.

I assume the liability for AA will run into the billions. Parker will flee the country when that happens.



You're joking right? It's not that bad.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:57 am

OB1504 wrote:
14 Oasis reconfigured 737-800s have been grounded due to defective overhead bins and possible fire hazard.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/Am ... 31861.html


Wow, I can only say wow.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:47 pm

musman9853 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Just imagine, an Oasis plane making an emergency landing. Fire breaks out and pax are scrambling to get out of the plane. Unfortunately, due to the tightness of the seat pitch, peoples' legs get tangled up and only the front two rows and exit rows can make it out. The other 150+ people burn to death.

I assume the liability for AA will run into the billions. Parker will flee the country when that happens.


You're joking right? It's not that bad.


OB1504 wrote:
14 Oasis reconfigured 737-800s have been grounded due to defective overhead bins and possible fire hazard.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/Am ... 31861.html


Told you so.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2769
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:55 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
[

Delta A220: happy to give Delta the edge on Y pitch per their website at 32”. F pitch at 37”, Same as oasis 738 for their premium passengers

Guess the entire improved product is all Personal TVs? I’m struggling with this incoming “much better experience” claim and specifically mentioning the a321s


The A220 is a game changer. When and if you fly on a DL A220, you will be immediately impressed with it.

You left out a few very important advantages to DL's new A220's. Coach seat width 18.6 inches, nearly two inches wider than a coach seat on AA's 737-800 OASIS plane.

The 3 lavs on the A220 are HUGE, one even with a window. This is a lav you can actually stand straight up in and that provides a comfortable environment. Speaking of windows, they are oversized like those on the 787 family of planes.

Mood lighting.

2-3 seating...great for couples who can get their own row.

A few particular folk on here like to comment on how much nosier DL's cabins are compared to the rest of the aviation industry, well the A220 has a very quiet cabin. Flew the A220 for the first time last week. The wing mounted engines can be seen clearly from F class, and are as quiet as the DL 350 I was on last month.

The in-seat IFE, totally unbelievable, amazing quality. Also, the screen tilt adjusts quite a bit so when the person in front of you reclines a lot, you can adjust the tilt on the screen so that it still faces you dead on. No under the seat IFE box helps with added storage space.

I could go on but you get the point...DL has something like 90 of these on order, most should be replacing the 717's and MD's I believe..

Oh, and upon my observation, just about everyone on board had the in seat IFE going which as others pointed out, allows you to use your phone to text, check E-mail etc. while watching a movie or a TV program, AND, you don't have to worry about whether or not your phone/tablet is charged and whether or not the charging outlet actually works on your AA/UA flight. Plus, if I want, it allows me to take a break from staring at my phone, actually put it away for a few hours.

Hopefully UA and AA have taken notice that DL is now flying the A220 to each of their respective important hubs (DFW, IAH, EWR etc) and that it blows away each and every plane AA and UA currently flies on those same routes. Shall I take an OASIS plane on DFW to LGA or a DL A220 on the same route? Same applies to LGA and IAH; repeat and rinse for similar hub to hub operations
Last edited by jumbojet on Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 5 times in total.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3640
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:04 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Just imagine, an Oasis plane making an emergency landing. Fire breaks out and pax are scrambling to get out of the plane. Unfortunately, due to the tightness of the seat pitch, peoples' legs get tangled up and only the front two rows and exit rows can make it out. The other 150+ people burn to death.

I assume the liability for AA will run into the billions. Parker will flee the country when that happens.


You're joking right? It's not that bad.


OB1504 wrote:
14 Oasis reconfigured 737-800s have been grounded due to defective overhead bins and possible fire hazard.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/Am ... 31861.html


Told you so.


That has nothing to do with the seating density. Otherwise all of the Oasis 737s would be grounded.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:12 pm

OB1504 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

You're joking right? It's not that bad.


OB1504 wrote:
14 Oasis reconfigured 737-800s have been grounded due to defective overhead bins and possible fire hazard.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/Am ... 31861.html


Told you so.


That has nothing to do with the seating density. Otherwise all of the Oasis 737s would be grounded.


Just wait for it.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:16 pm

OB1504 wrote:
Hyperbole much? If it hasn’t happened on Allegiant/Frontier/Spirit with their 28” pitch, why would it happen on AA?
Just a note, pitch on allegiant is 30" (sound familiar?).
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:18 pm

jumbojet wrote:
I could go on but you get the point...DL has something like 90 of these on order, most should be replacing the 717's and MD's I believe.
I don't believe their is any plan to replace the 717's at this point.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:51 pm

jumbojet wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
[

Delta A220: happy to give Delta the edge on Y pitch per their website at 32”. F pitch at 37”, Same as oasis 738 for their premium passengers

Guess the entire improved product is all Personal TVs? I’m struggling with this incoming “much better experience” claim and specifically mentioning the a321s


The A220 is a game changer. When and if you fly on a DL A220, you will be immediately impressed with it.

You left out a few very important advantages to DL's new A220's. Coach seat width 18.6 inches, nearly two inches wider than a coach seat on AA's 737-800 OASIS plane.

The 3 lavs on the A220 are HUGE, one even with a window. This is a lav you can actually stand straight up in and that provides a comfortable environment. Speaking of windows, they are oversized like those on the 787 family of planes.

Mood lighting.

2-3 seating...great for couples who can get their own row.

A few particular folk on here like to comment on how much nosier DL's cabins are compared to the rest of the aviation industry, well the A220 has a very quiet cabin. Flew the A220 for the first time last week. The wing mounted engines can be seen clearly from F class, and are as quiet as the DL 350 I was on last month.

The in-seat IFE, totally unbelievable, amazing quality. Also, the screen tilt adjusts quite a bit so when the person in front of you reclines a lot, you can adjust the tilt on the screen so that it still faces you dead on. No under the seat IFE box helps with added storage space.

I could go on but you get the point...DL has something like 90 of these on order, most should be replacing the 717's and MD's I believe..

Oh, and upon my observation, just about everyone on board had the in seat IFE going which as others pointed out, allows you to use your phone to text, check E-mail etc. while watching a movie or a TV program, AND, you don't have to worry about whether or not your phone/tablet is charged and whether or not the charging outlet actually works on your AA/UA flight. Plus, if I want, it allows me to take a break from staring at my phone, actually put it away for a few hours.

Hopefully UA and AA have taken notice that DL is now flying the A220 to each of their respective important hubs (DFW, IAH, EWR etc) and that it blows away each and every plane AA and UA currently flies on those same routes. Shall I take an OASIS plane on DFW to LGA or a DL A220 on the same route? Same applies to LGA and IAH; repeat and rinse for similar hub to hub operations


Well, the Pitch and PTVs are choices by Delta (why I mentioned the 32” Y pitch since it’s an actual operator choice), the rest is an A220 Standard configuration. But certainly a great purchase by delta and one that’s easily replicable by AA, United, Southwest, Moxy, JetBlue or anyone really, perhaps not at the Delta price.

But you’ll notice the gist of my commentary was directed at the industry-highest US3 density of the a321CEO and NEO, also Operator choices. Delta chose the lowest F pitch, the lowest Y pitch (in 6-60 seats, depending on which airline Fanbase you ask on here).

Getting the topic back to the thrust of the topic on here, Oasis density isn’t anything Delta hasn’t done already: tiny bathrooms, 30” Y(on however many seats it is), 36” F pitch. In fact, if anything, you’re better off on any Oasis first class seat than all Delta a321, assuming you bought the seat only for extra legroom, which some do, some don’t.

But,, as the title thread suggests, Delta may soon be alone with 30” Y pitch among the US3. Who knows... it’s a fun topic.

But, I’ll stick with my normal United seat, an airline that hasn’t yet lowered their seat pitch anywhere near AA and DL and that actually has an undisputed geographic-based revenue premium.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2014
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:54 pm

What kind of overhead bins do the older generation modded 737s have? Do they have shelf bins, or sky-interior like overheads?
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2769
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:04 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
[

But, I’ll stick with my normal United seat, an airline that hasn’t yet lowered their seat pitch anywhere near AA and DL and that actually has an undisputed geographic-based revenue premium.


if thats what you like then thats all that matters.

Point of interest, if you like UA channel 9 audio then you will equally like some of the flight tracker options on the DL A220. One feature gives you a HUD like display with all the primary flight controls that are found in the flight deck, and, they work real time to. Its pretty cool. I watched that for 3 hours straight the other day; it shows you pitch and roll, altitude, heading, speed...in a life like HUD format.
 
afcjets
Posts: 2824
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:04 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
Swadian wrote:
HA and WN are performing much better than DL, and neither have PTVs in narrowbody aircraft. JL also performs well without PTVs despite an excellent product otherwise. AA made a lot of mistakes, only one of which was the PTVs.


I always saw the PTV issue a bit differently. Airlines said they wanted to get rid of them due to mainly weight and seatroom (boxes underneath). Why the hell are PTV's so heavy and why do they need these huge boxes? An Ipad costs $200 and is 1lb. The tech is there for light, small tablets. Why has no manufacturer basically built an ipad into the seat for a couple hundred dollars, integrated an Ethernet port/cable and run it to a central streaming switch/box in the galley? Obviously there are certifications, but there is no reason to have these huge outdated PTV screens with lots of heavy equipment/boxes when the tech is there for cheap, light versions.


See post 97.
 
afcjets
Posts: 2824
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:25 pm

ABEguy wrote:
Antarius wrote:
ABEguy wrote:

I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude here but this is a perfect example of the kool aid I’m talking about. Dal 2018 total revenue was just under 44B, while AA did 44.5B. You must be talking about profit. Yes AA needs to improve their reliability and operation over all. I’d guess the discrepancy in profit between dal and AA can be attributed to waste by not running a efficient, on time, reliable airline. But the stuff with the seats is non sense sorry. Btw did anyone notice United’s new Max’s? No ptvs.


Yes, I'm talking about Profit. Revenue is meaningless as a standalone metric - AA is bigger , revenue should be higher. The fact that it's so close despite the size difference further reinforces my point.



892 mainline jets at dal and 952 at AA. Not that huge of a difference.


It’s a 6.7% difference and what is a huge difference is between that and your other post where you say American’s revenue is $43.5 billion vs. $43 billion at Delta, which is only 1.1% higher.

The best metric to use is RASM which also takes into account distance and aircraft size. The link in post 34 shows it for AA fourth quarter but not for DL, it would be on their earnings report though. This is a better metric to use than even profit if you are solely trying to determine which airline passengers prefer and what they are willing to pay for your product.
Last edited by afcjets on Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:31 pm

Delta's 321s are going to have MORE seats than AA's even after AA is done with the retrofit. So don't tell me AA's planes are tight and Delta's are not. Please... Enough with the fake news in here.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:10 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Delta's 321s are going to have MORE seats than AA's even after AA is done with the retrofit. So don't tell me AA's planes are tight and Delta's are not. Please... Enough with the fake news in here.

Fake news? Naw, the comfort won't last long, the 321s are next up for an "Upgrade" with Oasis after the 738s, Both the LUS (Currently 187 ttl) & LAA (currently 181 TTL) are going to match the new 321NEOs with have 196 seats (20F, 47MCE, 129Y). In the end, MCE will loose 1-2" and have a 33" pitch vs 34 on Delta & Economy will also loose 1-2" and have 30" pitch vs 30-31 on Delta. Economy in either of them doesn't sound great, but surprisingly AA is actually going to have the larger MCE section with 47 seats vs 29 Comfort + on DL.

Source:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ach-seats/
1.4mm and counting...
 
Detroit313
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:17 pm

Even AFTER the retrofit, Delta's 321 is going to have more seats and tiny lavs in the aft galley. At least AA is keeping the lavs out of the galley.
 
KAUSavgeek
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:55 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:22 pm

Should we just rename the forum AA vs DL? I'm here to know what AA plans to do with oasis in the future.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:36 pm

KAUSavgeek wrote:
Should we just rename the forum AA vs DL? I'm here to know what AA plans to do with oasis in the future.

It seems to have become that, but there hasn't been much released and the work proceeds.. The most recent opportunity was at the JPMorgan Transportation conference when asked by Jamie Baker if this was the cause of some of AAL's underperformance but Doug Parker rather uncomfortably side stepped the question and it sounded like it was here to stay....
1.4mm and counting...
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:41 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Delta's 321s are going to have MORE seats than AA's even after AA is done with the retrofit. So don't tell me AA's planes are tight and Delta's are not. Please... Enough with the fake news in here.

Fake news? Naw, the comfort won't last long, the 321s are next up for an "Upgrade" with Oasis after the 738s, Both the LUS (Currently 187 ttl) & LAA (currently 181 TTL) are going to match the new 321NEOs with have 196 seats (20F, 47MCE, 129Y). In the end, MCE will loose 1-2" and have a 33" pitch vs 34 on Delta & Economy will also loose 1-2" and have 30" pitch vs 30-31 on Delta. Economy in either of them doesn't sound great, but surprisingly AA is actually going to have the larger MCE section with 47 seats vs 29 Comfort + on DL.

Source:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ach-seats/


I believe the large MCE section on the AA 321NEO is one of the only reasons Delta's 321n is configured at 197 seats. We've already seen the pitch is higher (30-31 to AA's 30), and they'll also have PTVs. Both lavatories are bad, though.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6259
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:42 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Delta's 321s are going to have MORE seats than AA's even after AA is done with the retrofit. So don't tell me AA's planes are tight and Delta's are not. Please... Enough with the fake news in here.

Fake news? Naw, the comfort won't last long, the 321s are next up for an "Upgrade" with Oasis after the 738s, Both the LUS (Currently 187 ttl) & LAA (currently 181 TTL) are going to match the new 321NEOs with have 196 seats (20F, 47MCE, 129Y). In the end, MCE will loose 1-2" and have a 33" pitch vs 34 on Delta & Economy will also loose 1-2" and have 30" pitch vs 30-31 on Delta. Economy in either of them doesn't sound great, but surprisingly AA is actually going to have the larger MCE section with 47 seats vs 29 Comfort + on DL.

Source:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ach-seats/


How in the world does AA think you are going to pay an extra $50-100 just for a measly 33” seat pitch in MCE? If I’m going to pony up that kind of money I expect something more than 33”.
 
gsg013
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:51 pm

The bottom line is if you want to fly a crappy airline fly AA if you want to pay for a more premium experience from Basic Y all the way to F and J go with DL.. AA continues to get worse and worse and the crazy thing is they still have $25 billion of debt that is more debt than DL & UA combined... They keep buying new planes that turn their customers off to their product and push people toward DL and UA...
 
milemaster
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:18 pm

gsg013 wrote:
AA continues to get worse and worse and the crazy thing is they still have $25 billion of debt that is more debt than DL & UA combined... They keep buying new planes that turn their customers off to their product and push people toward DL and UA...


That is correct.
 
jersey777
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:37 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:06 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Delta's 321s are going to have MORE seats than AA's even after AA is done with the retrofit. So don't tell me AA's planes are tight and Delta's are not. Please... Enough with the fake news in here.

Fake news? Naw, the comfort won't last long, the 321s are next up for an "Upgrade" with Oasis after the 738s, Both the LUS (Currently 187 ttl) & LAA (currently 181 TTL) are going to match the new 321NEOs with have 196 seats (20F, 47MCE, 129Y). In the end, MCE will loose 1-2" and have a 33" pitch vs 34 on Delta & Economy will also loose 1-2" and have 30" pitch vs 30-31 on Delta. Economy in either of them doesn't sound great, but surprisingly AA is actually going to have the larger MCE section with 47 seats vs 29 Comfort + on DL.

Source:
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... ach-seats/


How in the world does AA think you are going to pay an extra $50-100 just for a measly 33” seat pitch in MCE? If I’m going to pony up that kind of money I expect something more than 33”.


You also get free alcohol......
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:15 pm

In the European Union, a chicken in an egg farm cage must have at least 750 cm2 of space, of which 600 cm2 must be usable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_cage

A chicken weighs approximately 1.5 pounds so it has a livable mass-area of 600/1.5 = 400 cm2/lbs.
The Oasis seat area is 30"x17" = 510 sq. inch. which is approximately 3,300 cm2. An average male human with a weight of 180 lbs will thus have a Oasis mass-area of 3300/180 = 18.3 cm2/lbs. More than an order of magnitude LESS than the egg farm chicken!

So, next time you feel like you are packed like sardines...guess what, it's true. Egg farm chickens have more space than humans on an Oasis flight!
 
User avatar
CLTRampRat
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:42 am

Doug Parker in denial about is planes again.

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:25 pm

When asked directly if AA’s Oasis product was the reason why AA continues to fall behind UA and DL, Mr.Parker (again) weaseled his way around the question by blaming it on poor marketing.

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/am ... aking.html
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3296
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Doug Parker in denial about is planes again.

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:45 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
When asked directly if AA’s Oasis product was the reason why AA continues to fall behind UA and DL, Mr.Parker (again) weaseled his way around the question by blaming it on poor marketing.

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/am ... aking.html


Parker doesn't have to weasel. We know 100% that Oasis has nothing to do with AA's financial performance. AA's financial performance predates Oasis (and even if it didn't, the same airlines ahead of AA already have "Oasised" their fleet, meaning if anything the lack of Oasis is part of the cause). Either Jamie Baker is simply an ignorant business person to not know the timeline of events, or he's intentional with his inaccurate question.

So, the bottom line is that the bloggers and news article are either ignorantly or intentionally on a PR campaign against AA for the purpose of harming AA.
 
gen2stew
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:15 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:31 pm

I question how much longer the b.o.d will tolerate team Parker's follies, flubs,and f-ups. Also, it's sad to see "normal " sized people not able to sit in Y oasis seats from BOS-MIA without having to stand in the aisle to let the blood and feeling return to their lower extremities. And let's not forget the high value passengers who loathe the MAX/ OASIS and are quite vocal about it.
I don't know why blessings wear disguises. If I were a blessing, I'd run around nude!
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: Doug Parker in denial about is planes again.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:51 am

MSPNWA wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
When asked directly if AA’s Oasis product was the reason why AA continues to fall behind UA and DL, Mr.Parker (again) weaseled his way around the question by blaming it on poor marketing.

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/am ... aking.html


Parker doesn't have to weasel. We know 100% that Oasis has nothing to do with AA's financial performance. AA's financial performance predates Oasis (and even if it didn't, the same airlines ahead of AA already have "Oasised" their fleet, meaning if anything the lack of Oasis is part of the cause). Either Jamie Baker is simply an ignorant business person to not know the timeline of events, or he's intentional with his inaccurate question.

So, the bottom line is that the bloggers and news article are either ignorantly or intentionally on a PR campaign against AA for the purpose of harming AA.

Not to attack, but how do we know that "100% Oasis has nothing to do with AA's Financial Performance"? And by what measures?

Jamie Baker has a long track record of covering the industry and I'm struggling to understand your jump to calling him either an ignorant business person or or not understanding the timeline of events... After covering multiple downturns, mergers, bankruptcies, and a general industry transformation for the investor community I'm not sure how either of those connections are made.
1.4mm and counting...
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3296
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Doug Parker in denial about is planes again.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:06 am

HPAEAA wrote:
Not to attack, but how do we know that "100% Oasis has nothing to do with AA's Financial Performance"? And by what measures?

Jamie Baker has a long track record of covering the industry and I'm struggling to understand your jump to calling him either an ignorant business person or or not understanding the timeline of events... After covering multiple downturns, mergers, bankruptcies, and a general industry transformation for the investor community I'm not sure how either of those connections are made.


I already said why. I'll say it again. AA's revenue trouble predate Oasis. And if that isn't enough, we know that two airlines AA is looking up to (DL and UA) started their own "Oasis" programs years ago, so long ago that DL's is complete and UA is finishing up. So not only do we not have the possibility of a cause and effect because of the timing, it's also in the opposite direction of known examples. Oasis can be eliminated as the cause.

I read what the analysts say on the earnings calls, and, frankly, they don't know how to run an airline. They know stocks, and that's what they care about. They don't care if a company does the right thing in the long-run. They want a higher stock price, and they want it now. The fact that Baker asked that question is proof of what I'm talking about. He's either ignorant or deliberately inaccurate with his question.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:18 am

Yeah. These "analysts" and bloggers are completely ignorant. There are certain individuals and websites that run anti-AA stories non stop because AA has by far the most employees and when they post dramatic stuff like that they get a lot of clicks because it is being shared on Facebook groups etc.. It is just a desperate attempt to get clicks.
 
nwcoflyer
Posts: 681
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:55 am

Re: Doug Parker in denial about is planes again.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:29 am

MSPNWA wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
Not to attack, but how do we know that "100% Oasis has nothing to do with AA's Financial Performance"? And by what measures?

Jamie Baker has a long track record of covering the industry and I'm struggling to understand your jump to calling him either an ignorant business person or or not understanding the timeline of events... After covering multiple downturns, mergers, bankruptcies, and a general industry transformation for the investor community I'm not sure how either of those connections are made.


I already said why. I'll say it again. AA's revenue trouble predate Oasis. And if that isn't enough, we know that two airlines AA is looking up to (DL and UA) started their own "Oasis" programs years ago, so long ago that DL's is complete and UA is finishing up. So not only do we not have the possibility of a cause and effect because of the timing, it's also in the opposite direction of known examples. Oasis can be eliminated as the cause.

I read what the analysts say on the earnings calls, and, frankly, they don't know how to run an airline. They know stocks, and that's what they care about. They don't care if a company does the right thing in the long-run. They want a higher stock price, and they want it now. The fact that Baker asked that question is proof of what I'm talking about. He's either ignorant or deliberately inaccurate with his question.


Touché. American has shy of 1,000 planes. Between the max and Oasis we are talking about 40 planes. Someone prove to me that 0.04 percent of the planes in the fleet are driving AAL’s poor revenue performance.

There may be many things undesirable about AA’s operation but the max and Oasis are not what are driving the piss poor performance. Let the nay sayers say what they want - Parker is the underdog and I feel like in 2 or 3 years everyone will forget this nonsensical hysteria about cabin density.
 
gsg013
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Doug Parker in denial about is planes again.

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:16 pm

nwcoflyer wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
Not to attack, but how do we know that "100% Oasis has nothing to do with AA's Financial Performance"? And by what measures?

Jamie Baker has a long track record of covering the industry and I'm struggling to understand your jump to calling him either an ignorant business person or or not understanding the timeline of events... After covering multiple downturns, mergers, bankruptcies, and a general industry transformation for the investor community I'm not sure how either of those connections are made.


I already said why. I'll say it again. AA's revenue trouble predate Oasis. And if that isn't enough, we know that two airlines AA is looking up to (DL and UA) started their own "Oasis" programs years ago, so long ago that DL's is complete and UA is finishing up. So not only do we not have the possibility of a cause and effect because of the timing, it's also in the opposite direction of known examples. Oasis can be eliminated as the cause.

I read what the analysts say on the earnings calls, and, frankly, they don't know how to run an airline. They know stocks, and that's what they care about. They don't care if a company does the right thing in the long-run. They want a higher stock price, and they want it now. The fact that Baker asked that question is proof of what I'm talking about. He's either ignorant or deliberately inaccurate with his question.


Touché. American has shy of 1,000 planes. Between the max and Oasis we are talking about 40 planes. Someone prove to me that 0.04 percent of the planes in the fleet are driving AAL’s poor revenue performance.

There may be many things undesirable about AA’s operation but the max and Oasis are not what are driving the piss poor performance. Let the naysayers say what they want - Parker is the underdog and I feel like in 2 or 3 years everyone will forget this nonsensical hysteria about cabin density.


40/1000 is 4% not 0.04 percent. what it is is the sentiment you get when you get on a domestic AA flight. Seems the FA's don't care. There is always something broken/ the flight is delayed. Then they have the nerve to tell you they are upgrading the planes which really means a downgrade by making the seats smaller and closer together. Also the MCE seat process is completely convoluted on DL you pay for comfort plus and get a section on AA each seat seems to cost a different amount which is confusing... I will not fly AA unless I really need to.
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1624
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:01 pm

Why is everyone so hung up on small bathrooms? You know, at least 50% of my flights I don't even use the bathroom!!! Can you believe it? I honestly couldn't care less. I get that the average american is overweight to obese, but still, you're in there for 2-3 minutes at a time. I'd rather there be more room for seats. As for oasis seats, I flew an AA reconfigured 737-800 on Tuesday. It really is very tight. While it's nice to have power at your seat, the rest of the seat leaves a lot to be desired. As for the entertainment, what a pain. I was using my phone to connect to the internet and my iPad didn't have the AA app so I couldn't use that. I got out my macbook pro to watch the entertainment. There's really not enough room for a laptop on this plane. And watching a movie won't work on Chrome, it requires Safari. I launched safari and the movie wouldn't work until I installed Flash. The instructions to turn flash on weren't correct - the screen shots were wrong. It prompted me to download Flash instead. After trying to install my computer informed me I already had a newer version of Flash installed. So I hunted through the settings in Safari to find out how to turn on. As many of you know, Flash eats up battery, and my charger was in the overhead bin. I'm fairly adept at computing - I'd guess the average flyer would have given up long before I did. PTVs would have made that experience soooo much easier.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
gsg013
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:10 pm

Swadian wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
I think I heard one of the AA executives say the additional 12 seats is worth 1.5 billion $ per aircraft over its lifetime.


It is if AA can command the same revenue for those seats - but if they slide on RSM, that $1.5 billion goes away.


Passengers pay for the lowest fare. That's why everyone put 787 in 9-abreast and 777 in 10-abreast, except JL which seems to command a revenue premium over everyone.


This is not correct there are a other operators with 9 abreast 777 including DL 9 abreast in Y on the 777. DL does also provide a revenue premium over the other US 3.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/777-200lr
 
stock1985
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:47 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:08 am

Any chance to get AA to role back the Oasis/MAX seating during the grounding? The mAAdness has to stop!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos