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gatibosgru
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:44 am

fanoftristars wrote:
Why is everyone so hung up on small bathrooms? You know, at least 50% of my flights I don't even use the bathroom!!!


Congrats?
@DadCelo
 
jumbojet
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:57 am

fanoftristars wrote:
Why is everyone so hung up on small bathrooms? You know, at least 50% of my flights I don't even use the bathroom!!! Can you believe it? I honestly couldn't care less.


Is that you Doug Parker?
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:59 am

fanoftristars wrote:
Why is everyone so hung up on small bathrooms? You know, at least 50% of my flights I don't even use the bathroom!!! Can you believe it? I honestly couldn't care less. I get that the average american is overweight to obese, but still, you're in there for 2-3 minutes at a time. I'd rather there be more room for seats. As for oasis seats, I flew an AA reconfigured 737-800 on Tuesday. It really is very tight. While it's nice to have power at your seat, the rest of the seat leaves a lot to be desired. As for the entertainment, what a pain. I was using my phone to connect to the internet and my iPad didn't have the AA app so I couldn't use that. I got out my macbook pro to watch the entertainment. There's really not enough room for a laptop on this plane. And watching a movie won't work on Chrome, it requires Safari. I launched safari and the movie wouldn't work until I installed Flash. The instructions to turn flash on weren't correct - the screen shots were wrong. It prompted me to download Flash instead. After trying to install my computer informed me I already had a newer version of Flash installed. So I hunted through the settings in Safari to find out how to turn on. As many of you know, Flash eats up battery, and my charger was in the overhead bin. I'm fairly adept at computing - I'd guess the average flyer would have given up long before I did. PTVs would have made that experience soooo much easier.


Oh great, Doug Parker has an airliners.net account now...
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:45 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Why is everyone so hung up on small bathrooms? You know, at least 50% of my flights I don't even use the bathroom!!! Can you believe it? I honestly couldn't care less. I get that the average american is overweight to obese, but still, you're in there for 2-3 minutes at a time. I'd rather there be more room for seats. As for oasis seats, I flew an AA reconfigured 737-800 on Tuesday. It really is very tight. While it's nice to have power at your seat, the rest of the seat leaves a lot to be desired. As for the entertainment, what a pain. I was using my phone to connect to the internet and my iPad didn't have the AA app so I couldn't use that. I got out my macbook pro to watch the entertainment. There's really not enough room for a laptop on this plane. And watching a movie won't work on Chrome, it requires Safari. I launched safari and the movie wouldn't work until I installed Flash. The instructions to turn flash on weren't correct - the screen shots were wrong. It prompted me to download Flash instead. After trying to install my computer informed me I already had a newer version of Flash installed. So I hunted through the settings in Safari to find out how to turn on. As many of you know, Flash eats up battery, and my charger was in the overhead bin. I'm fairly adept at computing - I'd guess the average flyer would have given up long before I did. PTVs would have made that experience soooo much easier.


Oh great, Doug Parker has an airliners.net account now...


I'm the farthest thing from Doug Parker you could imagine. He ruined America West, ruined US Airways, tried to ruin Delta and now is ruining AA. But having a small bathroom on a plane is really no big deal at all. Having a really tight seat pitch with chintzy hard seats and no entertainment is a bigger deal in my mind...
Last edited by fanoftristars on Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:46 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Why is everyone so hung up on small bathrooms? You know, at least 50% of my flights I don't even use the bathroom!!! Can you believe it? I honestly couldn't care less. I get that the average american is overweight to obese, but still, you're in there for 2-3 minutes at a time. I'd rather there be more room for seats. As for oasis seats, I flew an AA reconfigured 737-800 on Tuesday. It really is very tight. While it's nice to have power at your seat, the rest of the seat leaves a lot to be desired. As for the entertainment, what a pain. I was using my phone to connect to the internet and my iPad didn't have the AA app so I couldn't use that. I got out my macbook pro to watch the entertainment. There's really not enough room for a laptop on this plane. And watching a movie won't work on Chrome, it requires Safari. I launched safari and the movie wouldn't work until I installed Flash. The instructions to turn flash on weren't correct - the screen shots were wrong. It prompted me to download Flash instead. After trying to install my computer informed me I already had a newer version of Flash installed. So I hunted through the settings in Safari to find out how to turn on. As many of you know, Flash eats up battery, and my charger was in the overhead bin. I'm fairly adept at computing - I'd guess the average flyer would have given up long before I did. PTVs would have made that experience soooo much easier.


Oh great, Doug Parker has an airliners.net account now...


I'm the farthest thing from Doug Parker you could imagine. He ruined America West, ruined US Airways and now is ruining AA. But having a small bathroom on a plan is really no big deal at all. Having a really tight seat pitch with chintzy hard seats and no entertainment is a bigger deal in my mind...


My apologies I did not read your post fully the first time around. I agree with your points.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
Boof02671
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:45 pm

stock1985 wrote:
Any chance to get AA to role back the Oasis/MAX seating during the grounding? The mAAdness has to stop!

No the Oasis project is to convert 738s.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:47 pm

Perfect time time to adjust those MAX interiors :cheeky:
@DadCelo
 
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Polot
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:58 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
stock1985 wrote:
Any chance to get AA to role back the Oasis/MAX seating during the grounding? The mAAdness has to stop!

No the Oasis project is to convert 738s.

It’s the same seating/cabin size though, so if they roll back on Oasis they are likely going to eventually convert the MAX to match. Now would be the best time to make adjustments to the MAX (eg remove a row) but I doubt AA would.
Last edited by Polot on Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Detroit313
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:00 pm

Stop with this fake news thread!
 
global2
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:04 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
. As for the entertainment, what a pain. I was using my phone to connect to the internet and my iPad didn't have the AA app so I couldn't use that. I got out my macbook pro to watch the entertainment. There's really not enough room for a laptop on this plane. And watching a movie won't work on Chrome, it requires Safari. I launched safari and the movie wouldn't work until I installed Flash. The instructions to turn flash on weren't correct - the screen shots were wrong. It prompted me to download Flash instead. After trying to install my computer informed me I already had a newer version of Flash installed. So I hunted through the settings in Safari to find out how to turn on. As many of you know, Flash eats up battery, and my charger was in the overhead bin. I'm fairly adept at computing - I'd guess the average flyer would have given up long before I did. PTVs would have made that experience soooo much easier.


Do the FA's receive additional training to be IT consultants? Because I'd never be able to figure out everything you're describing. Guess I'll just look out the window for entertainment.
 
JonNYC
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:02 pm

hmmmmmmmm... my comment certainly applies to this forum/thread as well...... :D

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31010657-post22.html
 
raylee67
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:27 pm

I think removing the seat-back IFE is OK. Removing it would make the seat thinner and lighter, and make the tighter pitch a little bit more acceptable. As long as they provide movies through Wi-fi to the pax's personal devices. The seat-back IFE is really obsolete with the Wi-fi movie beaming capabilities. It's safe to assume everyone has a device now. Even if you don't have an iPad or tablet, you probably have a phone that can receive and play the movies. The economy class seat-back screen is not that much larger than a typical phone anyway.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 351 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:47 pm

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/am ... catch.html

Oasis Conversions have been stopped. Unknown to be permanent or temporary due to fixing seats or MAX groundings or another reason. Stated to be to fix the first class seat issues.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Wed May 01, 2019 7:57 pm

https://onemileatatime.com/american-air ... ass-seats/

Rumor that "American will be making improvements to their Oasis first class seats, including better seat padding, actually making under seat storage possible, adding a USB outlet and tablet holder to the seat back, and more"

Nothing on Economy.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:24 pm

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1163078147216236545

Here we go:

So, "Oasis 2.0” project isn’t going to start up until next summer. Confirmed there will be a repitch of the seats resulting in the first row of First Class having improved leg room, fixing the narrow aisle at row 1, fixing the underseat stowage in First, improved privacy for the last row of First, and seatback tablet holders and USB in First. All current Oasis and MAX planes will be retrofit to have these improvements.


The Oasis project will be continuing as planned for the A321’s this fall with the mods ramping up big time post-summer and continuing with the LUS birds first
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:58 pm

And the hard hitter: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1163086193216692230

Best I can tell; no changes to economy and-- subject to confirmation (and/or change of mindset)-- does appear that the dream of them wAAking up and adding in-seat IFE is dead.
 
OB1504
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:41 pm

Ishrion wrote:
And the hard hitter: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1163086193216692230

Best I can tell; no changes to economy and-- subject to confirmation (and/or change of mindset)-- does appear that the dream of them wAAking up and adding in-seat IFE is dead.


Even United changed their minds and will be adding in-seat IFE. AA’s product will noticeably lag behind that of their two biggest competitors once all the refits are done.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:08 pm

OB1504 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
And the hard hitter: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1163086193216692230

Best I can tell; no changes to economy and-- subject to confirmation (and/or change of mindset)-- does appear that the dream of them wAAking up and adding in-seat IFE is dead.


Even United changed their minds and will be adding in-seat IFE. AA’s product will noticeably lag behind that of their two biggest competitors once all the refits are done.


Haha you think Dougie cares? It'll be a point of pride for him. See? I'm cheaper than even Scott K!

Let's see if this post survives. Apparently insulting Dougie is now against the rules?
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:36 pm

OB1504 wrote:

Even United changed their minds and will be adding in-seat IFE.


Has this been confirmed for the 737NG/A319/A320 fleet?
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:38 pm

Did anyone truly think that AA would not keep changing their aircraft to industry standard? Their fleet is behind the density curve.

OB1504 wrote:
Even United changed their minds and will be adding in-seat IFE. AA’s product will noticeably lag behind that of their two biggest competitors once all the refits are done.


There's no solid evidence UA is changing their minds. UA is using MAXes for a PS replacement, and it would be expected that subfleet will have PTVs as their current subfleet does. The description of what has been released fits a new PS fleet, not a fleet-wide change. AA's product is noticeably ahead in many areas, and it's costing them money.
 
AA321T
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:54 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
OB1504 wrote:

Even United changed their minds and will be adding in-seat IFE.


Has this been confirmed for the 737NG/A319/A320 fleet?

Nope
 
9w748capt
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:58 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Did anyone truly think that AA would not keep changing their aircraft to industry standard? Their fleet is behind the density curve.

OB1504 wrote:
Even United changed their minds and will be adding in-seat IFE. AA’s product will noticeably lag behind that of their two biggest competitors once all the refits are done.


There's no solid evidence UA is changing their minds. UA is using MAXes for a PS replacement, and it would be expected that subfleet will have PTVs as their current subfleet does. The description of what has been released fits a new PS fleet, not a fleet-wide change. AA's product is noticeably ahead in many areas, and it's costing them money.


It's hilarious how DL has denser seating and the same space-saving lavs that AA is getting a lot of flak for, but DL is viewed as having a superior product, and their financials back it up. Coincidence?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:11 pm

9w748capt wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Did anyone truly think that AA would not keep changing their aircraft to industry standard? Their fleet is behind the density curve.

OB1504 wrote:
Even United changed their minds and will be adding in-seat IFE. AA’s product will noticeably lag behind that of their two biggest competitors once all the refits are done.


There's no solid evidence UA is changing their minds. UA is using MAXes for a PS replacement, and it would be expected that subfleet will have PTVs as their current subfleet does. The description of what has been released fits a new PS fleet, not a fleet-wide change. AA's product is noticeably ahead in many areas, and it's costing them money.


It's hilarious how DL has denser seating and the same space-saving lavs that AA is getting a lot of flak for, but DL is viewed as having a superior product, and their financials back it up. Coincidence?


I feel like people are more angered by the 30 inches of pitch and lack of IFE, while Delta is able to have both...
 
reggiet
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:22 pm

FSDan wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Yes, I'm talking about Profit. Revenue is meaningless as a standalone metric - AA is bigger , revenue should be higher. The fact that it's so close despite the size difference further reinforces my point.

Whether it comes down to seats or not is your speculation.

FTR, I do 100 -150k a year on American and very rarely fly DL. So I'm not trying to prop DL up for fun. I just do recognize that they are doing a better job, and the numbers back it up. AA needs to do something else, other than just be a poor mans imitation of DL.


This :checkmark: :checkmark:



892 mainline jets at dal and 952 at AA. Not that huge of a difference. As a frequent flyer you must notice that you’re flying on new airplane with AA? How about the admirals clubs all over the system? Terminal updates? That’s 25B dollars of investment by AA in the last 5 years. Again I see your point with the operation, but when people get on here and complain about AA coach seats, then say “deltas got the right idea”, it’s non sense. Btw delta MD jets are so cheap to operate for them that’s it’s a hell of a profit maker. AA decided to go a different route and retire theirs. That probably cost them in the short term.


Sounds like you're not particularly up to date on DL... DL's MD-88s will be retired within a 1-2 years of AA's MD-80s. And they're currently only really used on flights of 2 hours or less from ATL anyway. Meanwhile, DL is in the process of adding hundreds of new narrowbodies to their fleet (A220, 739, 321, 321neo), not to mention that most of their older aircraft (319/320s, 757s) have been refurbished in the last few years.

Terminal updates? DL's got major active projects at SEA, LAX, SLC, and LGA, recently completed a significant addition/upgrade at JFK T4, and has done interior upgrades at MSP and ATL (some of which are ongoing).
Reggie in Austin
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:00 am

raylee67 wrote:
I think removing the seat-back IFE is OK. Removing it would make the seat thinner and lighter, and make the tighter pitch a little bit more acceptable. As long as they provide movies through Wi-fi to the pax's personal devices. The seat-back IFE is really obsolete with the Wi-fi movie beaming capabilities. It's safe to assume everyone has a device now. Even if you don't have an iPad or tablet, you probably have a phone that can receive and play the movies. The economy class seat-back screen is not that much larger than a typical phone anyway.

I don't think that's really the point. Much like those who say "Just bring food on the plane with you instead of whining about no food on board", your argument doesn't take into account people who just want to settle in and have an appropriate snack/meal or entertainment for the flight without fiddling with extra stuff.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
hondah35
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:25 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Delta 321 is horrible. Extremely tight and the lavatories are in the galley!

DL and UA have had the slim lavatories for years now and no one says anything. But for some reason when AA does it everyone gets upset.



Passengers could take a dump in the aisle on a DL plane and there would still be a fanboy insisting that they smelled roses
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:33 am

9w748capt wrote:
It's hilarious how DL has denser seating and the same space-saving lavs that AA is getting a lot of flak for, but DL is viewed as having a superior product, and their financials back it up. Coincidence?


Once again, yes. Will you ever provide us with data that says DL's financials are because of PTVs? Or is it always going to be an empty, tired talking point?

PTVs simply don't matter enough to us to make the airlines care.
 
TObound
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:49 am

Really curious how this going with their frequent flyers.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:48 am

I don’t understand the fixation on seat back IFE that many people have on this forum.

Wouldn’t it be simpler to have in seat power in all seats and bring your own device?
 
9w748capt
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:03 am

MSPNWA wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
It's hilarious how DL has denser seating and the same space-saving lavs that AA is getting a lot of flak for, but DL is viewed as having a superior product, and their financials back it up. Coincidence?


Once again, yes. Will you ever provide us with data that says DL's financials are because of PTVs? Or is it always going to be an empty, tired talking point?

PTVs simply don't matter enough to us to make the airlines care.


If PTVs don't matter, then why does DL keep installing them? Answer that! If PTVs are just a waste of money, then why does the most profitable airline continue to invest in them? Why can't you answer that? If PTVs didn't at all matter and DL thought they could make the same profits regardless, wouldn't they stop wasting money on them?
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:04 am

Aceskywalker wrote:
I don’t understand the fixation on seat back IFE that many people have on this forum.

Wouldn’t it be simpler to have in seat power in all seats and bring your own device?


Just a matter of preference, someone liking something doesn't have to necessarily make sense to others.

In my case, I like using my phone to take pictures and play games in while I watch a TV show in the background. I sometimes also like to turn my phone off and having PTVs gives me the entertainment option.
@DadCelo
 
9w748capt
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:06 am

Aceskywalker wrote:
I don’t understand the fixation on seat back IFE that many people have on this forum.

Wouldn’t it be simpler to have in seat power in all seats and bring your own device?


No, it is not. It's infinitely easier to use built-in IFE rather than fiddle with your own device, worry about digging your charging cable out, deal with a broken power outlet, etc. Regular Y is so unbelievably cramped. I don't get what you people don't understand about that. Not only is in-seat IFE easier, it's also a hell of a distraction during delays. Want to keep 100 people entertained for 2 hours? Put a TV in front of them. It's unbelievable to me how some of you "experts" don't see that.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:20 am

9w748capt wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
I don’t understand the fixation on seat back IFE that many people have on this forum.

Wouldn’t it be simpler to have in seat power in all seats and bring your own device?


No, it is not. It's infinitely easier to use built-in IFE rather than fiddle with your own device, worry about digging your charging cable out, deal with a broken power outlet, etc. Regular Y is so unbelievably cramped. I don't get what you people don't understand about that. Not only is in-seat IFE easier, it's also a hell of a distraction during delays. Want to keep 100 people entertained for 2 hours? Put a TV in front of them. It's unbelievable to me how some of you "experts" don't see that.


Probably the same 'experts' who have only flown domestic and never been on a flight that's 10+ hours in length...

(I've been on at least 15... and would have gone nuts without a PTV)
xx
 
Ebmek
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:29 am

I think one of my friend's that works in the industry put it best when it came to why Delta is viewed in such high regard over their competitors even though their products are similar. Delta inherited the low cost mentality of Northwest when they merged, but in keeping that cost structure, they adopted the appearance of being a full service carrier and this translates well to the general population by people assuming that they are paying a premium for services offered when in reality, the products themselves don't cost more than their competitors. Delta invested in appearances, and so far the finances are showing that appearances are paying out, and so Delta will continue to invest in them.

American, on the other hand, faced the same adoption of mentality when the merger with US Airways, a LCC, was done. Except for them, they decided to follow Delta initially, but didn't see the returns, and decided to do an about face and go the other route, cutting costs AND looking like they're cutting costs.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:18 am

9w748capt wrote:
If PTVs don't matter, then why does DL keep installing them? Answer that! If PTVs are just a waste of money, then why does the most profitable airline continue to invest in them? Why can't you answer that? If PTVs didn't at all matter and DL thought they could make the same profits regardless, wouldn't they stop wasting money on them?


1) That's not what I said. Context matters. I said they don't matter enough to make airlines care. If we did, they would all have them.

2) Because they don't know better and are making a mistake? Because they naively believe that people pay more for a "premium" perception? Your guess is as good as mine. Do you think because airline A does something, it means it's right? DL has a different strategy with PTVs than AA. It doesn't mean it's the right one financially.

The rhetoric that DL (or anything other airline) makes more because of PTVs is to this day an unfounded talking point.
 
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JetAwayDrew
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:21 am

For me it’s all about the inflight map. I can watch it for hours in the background. That’s what I’ll miss most.
 
EBiafore99
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:14 am

Attached is an article I found on the proposed updates:

https://onemileatatime.com/americans-la ... ular-737s/

It appears to be just a couple of minor improvements to F and no changes to Y. The thing that shocked me about the changes is that F will get USB ports now. So that means that Y still will not get USB ports? That seems odd considering the proliferation of personal devices and AA relies on you to bring those personal devices for any entertainment.

Based on this article and recent thread posts - a couple of my thoughts:

1. AA vs DL density: A319 - AA128 and DL132, A320 - AA150 and DL157, A321 - AA187 (v2) and DL189, 738 - AA172 and DL160, 752 - AA188 (v2) and DL199 (I believe this is the standard). It appears DL does have more density on its aircraft, at least on comparable aircraft.

2. IFE/no-IFE: The value of IFE can be argued all day long. To me, the issue on the IFE is less about the IFE itself and more about the "appearance". I've flown both airlines and DL aircraft look better with the IFE...and seats have USB ports. It creates more of an image of a full-service carrier (so to speak). I get on an AA aircraft and it feels like I am getting on a NK aircraft minus the ads. I am not knocking NK, it's a valid service, but that's not what I am looking for when I a purchase an AA ticket.

IMO, the bottom line is DL is better at "branding". Yes, their planes are denser, but they "offset" the density (so to speak) with IFE, USB ports, free messaging, etc. Whether that's a fair trade is up to you. However, let's look at AA - Oasis takes everything away with no "offset". And if you get on one of AA's 757s or 767s, you're really in for a throwback to a past era. AA is trying to be a full-service carrier with a NK cabin...at least to me, that's not going to work,
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 1053
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:00 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
Attached is an article I found on the proposed updates:

https://onemileatatime.com/americans-la ... ular-737s/

It appears to be just a couple of minor improvements to F and no changes to Y. The thing that shocked me about the changes is that F will get USB ports now. So that means that Y still will not get USB ports? That seems odd considering the proliferation of personal devices and AA relies on you to bring those personal devices for any entertainment.

Based on this article and recent thread posts - a couple of my thoughts:

1. AA vs DL density: A319 - AA128 and DL132, A320 - AA150 and DL157, A321 - AA187 (v2) and DL189, 738 - AA172 and DL160, 752 - AA188 (v2) and DL199 (I believe this is the standard). It appears DL does have more density on its aircraft, at least on comparable aircraft.

2. IFE/no-IFE: The value of IFE can be argued all day long. To me, the issue on the IFE is less about the IFE itself and more about the "appearance". I've flown both airlines and DL aircraft look better with the IFE...and seats have USB ports. It creates more of an image of a full-service carrier (so to speak). I get on an AA aircraft and it feels like I am getting on a NK aircraft minus the ads. I am not knocking NK, it's a valid service, but that's not what I am looking for when I a purchase an AA ticket.

IMO, the bottom line is DL is better at "branding". Yes, their planes are denser, but they "offset" the density (so to speak) with IFE, USB ports, free messaging, etc. Whether that's a fair trade is up to you. However, let's look at AA - Oasis takes everything away with no "offset". And if you get on one of AA's 757s or 767s, you're really in for a throwback to a past era. AA is trying to be a full-service carrier with a NK cabin...at least to me, that's not going to work,


AA's Economy Class on the Oasis 737s already have USBs in Economy. First did not. The second picture OMAAT provides shows USBs at every seat next to the tablet holder.
 
sxf24
Posts: 859
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:05 pm

I want to know how AA can increase room in F, add privacy and widen the aisle, which I assume comes from significantly more pitch at the bulkhead, without touching Y? Are they removing a row in Y?
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:23 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
Attached is an article I found on the proposed updates:

https://onemileatatime.com/americans-la ... ular-737s/

Based on this article and recent thread posts - a couple of my thoughts:

1. AA vs DL density: A319 - AA128 and DL132, A320 - AA150 and DL157, A321 - AA187 (v2) and DL189, 738 - AA172 and DL160, 752 - AA188 (v2) and DL199 (I believe this is the standard). It appears DL does have more density on its aircraft, at least on comparable aircraft.

One small correction, I believe the current AA321 capacity your referencing is the LUS config, with the Oasis update, the A321 will have 190 seats on the CEOs and 196 seats on the NEOs. Delta I believe is in the process of removing some seats from the 321 with a target of 192 total, so pretty much on par for the 321 config.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... rvice/amp/

EBiafore99 wrote:
IMO, the bottom line is DL is better at "branding". Yes, their planes are denser, but they "offset" the density (so to speak) with IFE, USB ports, free messaging, etc. Whether that's a fair trade is up to you. However, let's look at AA - Oasis takes everything away with no "offset". And if you get on one of AA's 757s or 767s, you're really in for a throwback to a past era. AA is trying to be a full-service carrier with a NK cabin...at least to me, that's not going to work,

I agree with you on the branding, by adding in the extra features they’re attempting to provide more value to customers. In the end, these are two different strategies, and time will tell - AAL management has mentioned on their calls that they think they can squeeze another billion in revenue from the oasis & technology changes. From the outside looking in, I see more value in the delta experience at this point.
1.4mm and counting...
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:40 pm

9w748capt wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:


Even United changed their minds and will be adding in-seat IFE. AA’s product will noticeably lag behind that of their two biggest competitors once all the refits are done.


Haha you think Dougie cares? It'll be a point of pride for him. See? I'm cheaper than even Scott K!

Let's see if this post survives. Apparently insulting Dougie is now against the rules?



Well post should have actually points and facts and not just be rants.
 
ABEguy
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:56 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
Attached is an article I found on the proposed updates:

https://onemileatatime.com/americans-la ... ular-737s/

It appears to be just a couple of minor improvements to F and no changes to Y. The thing that shocked me about the changes is that F will get USB ports now. So that means that Y still will not get USB ports? That seems odd considering the proliferation of personal devices and AA relies on you to bring those personal devices for any entertainment.

Based on this article and recent thread posts - a couple of my thoughts:

1. AA vs DL density: A319 - AA128 and DL132, A320 - AA150 and DL157, A321 - AA187 (v2) and DL189, 738 - AA172 and DL160, 752 - AA188 (v2) and DL199 (I believe this is the standard). It appears DL does have more density on its aircraft, at least on comparable aircraft.

2. IFE/no-IFE: The value of IFE can be argued all day long. To me, the issue on the IFE is less about the IFE itself and more about the "appearance". I've flown both airlines and DL aircraft look better with the IFE...and seats have USB ports. It creates more of an image of a full-service carrier (so to speak). I get on an AA aircraft and it feels like I am getting on a NK aircraft minus the ads. I am not knocking NK, it's a valid service, but that's not what I am looking for when I a purchase an AA ticket.

IMO, the bottom line is DL is better at "branding". Yes, their planes are denser, but they "offset" the density (so to speak) with IFE, USB ports, free messaging, etc. Whether that's a fair trade is up to you. However, let's look at AA - Oasis takes everything away with no "offset". And if you get on one of AA's 757s or 767s, you're really in for a throwback to a past era. AA is trying to be a full-service carrier with a NK cabin...at least to me, that's not going to work,


Main cabin absolutely has USB ports in every seat in the oasis config. Your info is off.
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:58 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
EBiafore99 wrote:
Attached is an article I found on the proposed updates:

https://onemileatatime.com/americans-la ... ular-737s/

Based on this article and recent thread posts - a couple of my thoughts:

1. AA vs DL density: A319 - AA128 and DL132, A320 - AA150 and DL157, A321 - AA187 (v2) and DL189, 738 - AA172 and DL160, 752 - AA188 (v2) and DL199 (I believe this is the standard). It appears DL does have more density on its aircraft, at least on comparable aircraft.

One small correction, I believe the current AA321 capacity your referencing is the LUS config, with the Oasis update, the A321 will have 190 seats on the CEOs and 196 seats on the NEOs. Delta I believe is in the process of removing some seats from the 321 with a target of 192 total, so pretty much on par for the 321 config.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... rvice/amp/

EBiafore99 wrote:
IMO, the bottom line is DL is better at "branding". Yes, their planes are denser, but they "offset" the density (so to speak) with IFE, USB ports, free messaging, etc. Whether that's a fair trade is up to you. However, let's look at AA - Oasis takes everything away with no "offset". And if you get on one of AA's 757s or 767s, you're really in for a throwback to a past era. AA is trying to be a full-service carrier with a NK cabin...at least to me, that's not going to work,

I agree with you on the branding, by adding in the extra features they’re attempting to provide more value to customers. In the end, these are two different strategies, and time will tell - AAL management has mentioned on their calls that they think they can squeeze another billion in revenue from the oasis & technology changes. From the outside looking in, I see more value in the delta experience at this point.


Thanks for the corrections on the A321. I forgot about the Oasis on AA and didn't even know DL was removing seats.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:39 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
If PTVs don't matter, then why does DL keep installing them? Answer that! If PTVs are just a waste of money, then why does the most profitable airline continue to invest in them? Why can't you answer that? If PTVs didn't at all matter and DL thought they could make the same profits regardless, wouldn't they stop wasting money on them?


1) That's not what I said. Context matters. I said they don't matter enough to make airlines care. If we did, they would all have them.

2) Because they don't know better and are making a mistake? Because they naively believe that people pay more for a "premium" perception? Your guess is as good as mine. Do you think because airline A does something, it means it's right? DL has a different strategy with PTVs than AA. It doesn't mean it's the right one financially.

The rhetoric that DL (or anything other airline) makes more because of PTVs is to this day an unfounded talking point.


Oh ok - so now DL management is dumb and doesn't know what they're doing? Hahaha good one. The most profitable of the US3 (by far) all of a sudden has an incompetent management team.

Doesn't mean it's the right one financially? Then why do they keep doing it?!

I'm not arguing (nor have I argued) that DL's superior results are BECAUSE of IFE. Association is not causation! But there's no doubt about the results - one of the US3 is far outperforming the other two.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2565
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:47 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
Wouldn’t it be simpler to have in seat power in all seats and bring your own device?


Simpler for the airline, sure. That's why AA and UA are doing it.

It's not simpler for the passenger, and particularly for families traveling together it means you need to own (and bring with you) as many devices as you have family members.

In my experience, when there's AVOD on a flight it gets widely used. I'd think this indicates passengers see some value in it, and I absolutely believe there is a perception difference between an aircraft that has it and one that doesn't. I'm sure that's DL's line of thinking. I agree with MSPNWA that there's no definitive data that will help us determine whether this is the right or wrong financial decision from the airline's perspective - there are just too many factors at play. To me AVOD seems like just one factor that affects a passenger's overall perception of/experience with an airline, which in turn influences their brand loyalty. If DL passengers feel that Delta cares more about their experience than AA passengers feel AA cares about theirs, that can ultimately make a difference.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1479
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:51 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:

2. IFE/no-IFE: The value of IFE can be argued all day long. To me, the issue on the IFE is less about the IFE itself and more about the "appearance". I've flown both airlines and DL aircraft look better with the IFE...and seats have USB ports. It creates more of an image of a full-service carrier (so to speak). I get on an AA aircraft and it feels like I am getting on a NK aircraft minus the ads. I am not knocking NK, it's a valid service, but that's not what I am looking for when I a purchase an AA ticket.

IMO, the bottom line is DL is better at "branding". Yes, their planes are denser, but they "offset" the density (so to speak) with IFE, USB ports, free messaging, etc. Whether that's a fair trade is up to you. However, let's look at AA - Oasis takes everything away with no "offset". And if you get on one of AA's 757s or 767s, you're really in for a throwback to a past era. AA is trying to be a full-service carrier with a NK cabin...at least to me, that's not going to work,


Fully agree. Looking at a plastic seat holder looks cheap, whereas looking at an IFE screen conveys an image of upscale. Perception means a lot to some passengers.
 
User avatar
vhtje
Posts: 999
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Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:05 pm

JetAwayDrew wrote:
For me it’s all about the inflight map. I can watch it for hours in the background. That’s what I’ll miss most.


Ah, but a WiFi connection and Planespotter app solves that. In fact, it is actually miles better - with Planespotter, you can see other aircraft traffic around you, so you know to keep an eye out for that UA A320 closing in at 45 degrees right to left 2,000 feet below you, and spot it as it comes. And feel smug because you know precisely what it is.

Also, you can zoom in and identify landmarks below, and thereby precisely identifying where you are (Planespotter is only a fraction of a minute behind, usually)

It is truly magnificent, and blows any IFE map out of the water.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3347
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:13 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Oh ok - so now DL management is dumb and doesn't know what they're doing? Hahaha good one. The most profitable of the US3 (by far) all of a sudden has an incompetent management team.

Doesn't mean it's the right one financially? Then why do they keep doing it?!

I'm not arguing (nor have I argued) that DL's superior results are BECAUSE of IFE. Association is not causation! But there's no doubt about the results - one of the US3 is far outperforming the other two.


Don't backtrack now. You've clearly made the implication many times that DL's financial results are in part because of IFE. It's not a "coincidence" you keep making the connection.

Do you honestly think that airlines (or any other person for that matter) never make mistakes? Of course not, and of course mistakes alone doesn't mean someone is incompetent. Let's say in general it is the right move financially. Then why are WN, UA, AA, AS, NK, F9, etc. (some with better margins than DL) shying away and making a mistake? They must be incompetent, right?

All we can say is there's a difference in strategy. What we can't unequivocally say from the outside is that one is the right move and one isn't. What I've illustrated is that's it's certainly possible from a financial standpoint that DL/B6 has it wrong and AA and the others have it right. You can still criticize them for not having something you personally value, but if they're right, what can't be criticized is the decision to do so, because then we as a whole don't value it enough.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:39 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
I don’t understand the fixation on seat back IFE that many people have on this forum.

Wouldn’t it be simpler to have in seat power in all seats and bring your own device?



Having flown a lot on Southwest, at times it would take forever (up to 30 min) to get something going on my tablet or phone. The movie or show would constantly kick out or wouldn’t load. Now I fly more often AA Tampa to Chicago and I guess those are the the pre Oasis 737-800 with IFE and I enjoy those flights, and I always look around since reading this thread, and more then half use them. Usually flying Delta back majority use the IFE. Now I’m on a Las Vegas trip with Delta and could not get anything going on the Gogo app on the MD-90, and on the A321 90%+ was using the IFE. I prefer the IFE because dealing with the apps/WiFi is a pain
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW KRK FRA LGW FCO ORD MDW LAS DFW ATL RDU BNA BHM BOS DTW FLL MCO RSW TPA SRQ
717 737-300/700/800/900/MAX8 747-400 757-200/300 767-300 787-8 319 320 321 330-300 MD-90 BAE146 CRJ900 Q400 E195 Piper Archer Cessna 152
 
ckfred
Posts: 5148
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: Rumor: American Airlines to Modify Project Oasis Planes.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:46 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
I don’t understand the fixation on seat back IFE that many people have on this forum.

Wouldn’t it be simpler to have in seat power in all seats and bring your own device?


Here's the rub. I don't travel for business, so I don't have a laptop. I have a tablet, but it's ancient and very slow. I only take my phone, which the holder in the seatback won't hold.

Now, my wife has a company laptop, but she is precluded by company policy from using anywhere but the office, at home, or at a client site, because of the need for secure Wi-Fi.

I've said this before, but I heard Mike Greenberg of ESPN tell about sitting next to a UA vice president on a flight to Chicago. The VP said that all airlines are wrestling with the decisions about IFE. So many people now have devices loaded with lots of music, and often, TV shows or movies. At the time of the conversation, people were starting to use Netflix and Hulu on devices, and customers were asking for faster Wi-Fi, in order to get better quality streaming.

United was mulling the question of pulling out the IFE in total, pulling out overhead and seatback screens (meaning there would still be armrest audio plugs), or simply leaving IFE and adding better Wi-Fi.

IFE adds weight, with a box for every group of 3 seats. Take out the boxes, and you can either add more cargo or increase the fuel load. Either way, no IFE and better Wi-Fi would probably be more efficient.

It's not an easy decision.

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