User avatar
Zoedyn
Topic Author
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:46 pm

Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:19 am

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... ccs-457952

Ukraine has ambitions to develop an international hub to connect Europe and Asia, as per the key directions for aviation reform in the country identified by Ukraine’s Minister of Infrastructure, Volodymyr Omelyan

But as the article (mostly paywalled though) shrewdly points out, the Ukrainian state airline has few Asia-bound flights with a fleet hardly ready for longhaul expansions. More importantly, quite a few airports in the regions are already fulfilling the international hub role and current domestic circumstances in Ukraine are not ideal either

So, while there really is nothing surprising about this disclosure of Ukraine's Europe-Asia hub ambitions as virtually all geographically well located countries/regions (often with their major home airlines) seem to nurture international/intercontinental aviation hub dreams/ambitions of one kind or another,
the timing of the proposal (way too late?) does raise serious questions on its viability and chances of success

Recent examples of countries/airlines having hub ambitions:
Bloomberg: Poland Wants Its Planned Airport to Be a European Gateway to Asia
Aeroflot seeks to capitalize on Moscow as sixth-freedom hub
Philippine Airlines plans to develop Manila into a gateway of Southeast Asia/South Asia toward North America
 
dirk88
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:27 am

They could be competitive to North-East Asia (Japan, Korea), similar to Finnair, but I recon investing a lot might be tricky, considering Russia often playing politics with overfly rights. They are competitive on flights to Caucasus and the Stans already, may be a better niche to pursue. Less competition, no need to overfly Russia.
 
bhxalex
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:40 am

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:21 am

I've seen them offer good fares from LGW to BKK and PEK via KBP. But they were only about 5 percent cheaper than TK or EY from LHR. Which really is nothing, given the gulf of quality between them in terms of on-board product.

They might do well in secondary markets in Europe that have little one stop competition, but from the larger markets there's too many vastly superior airlines already, offering similar fares.

Good luck to them though, flew with them in 2017 KBP-BRU, they were basic but no problems and KBP is quite an easy airport to use.
 
lutfi
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:33 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:27 am

Yeah - the Russia situation is a problem...
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:30 am

dirk88 wrote:
They could be competitive to North-East Asia (Japan, Korea), similar to Finnair, but I recon investing a lot might be tricky, considering Russia often playing politics with overfly rights. They are competitive on flights to Caucasus and the Stans already, may be a better niche to pursue. Less competition, no need to overfly Russia.


Europe-NorthAsia through HEL is substantially shorter than through KBP regardless of flying over Russia or not.

Traffic to Central Asia is their natural target but it's not large enough to established a world-scale hub, also I see TK becoming the major player in that region of the world.

European traffic to India, SE Asia and even China is well served through non-stops, TK and gulf carriers.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
MaksFly
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:50 am

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:36 am

Not sure if it improved, but a large issue is the hard product. Generally UIA and AeroSvit before, the product is crammed sardine cans. If for just a few more $ you can fly on SU.... why would you subject yourself to tiny seats, crammed airplanes. This is for the 767. Not sure the layout on 777.
 
User avatar
Melbourne
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:17 am

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:53 am

A country in a state of civil war, really this is their focus?
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2500
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:53 am

upperdeckfan wrote:

Europe-NorthAsia through HEL is substantially shorter than through KBP regardless of flying over Russia or not.


What routing are you looking at? Unless UIA is forced to bypass russian airspace, HEL isn't shorter, and the differences either way couldn't be described as substantial.

MAD-HEL-NRT = 6,908 mi
MAD-KBP-NRT = 6,710 mi

MAD-HEL-HKG = 6,693 mi
MAD-KBP-HKG = 6,540 mi
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
LurveBus
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:21 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:00 am

They can give a shot at shooting down the competition... wait...
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 7901
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:00 am

Also making news this hour, Niue hopes to become a hub connecting North America and Australia/New Zealand.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
kruiseri
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:32 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:52 am

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:

Europe-NorthAsia through HEL is substantially shorter than through KBP regardless of flying over Russia or not.


What routing are you looking at? Unless UIA is forced to bypass russian airspace, HEL isn't shorter, and the differences either way couldn't be described as substantial.

MAD-HEL-NRT = 6,908 mi
MAD-KBP-NRT = 6,710 mi

MAD-HEL-HKG = 6,693 mi
MAD-KBP-HKG = 6,540 mi


You got one of them the other way around. MAD-HEL-NRT is 6710 ;-)

In order to do that, you need to make significant investments in fleet and airport facilities. Both might be a bit of an issue for Ukraine...
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:06 pm

Poland wants to become a Europe-Asia hub. Some laughed at that but the Polish economy is considerably stronger than the Ukrainian economy, WAW's terminal is better suited than KBP and LOT have aircraft that UIA don't. Furthermore Poland isn't engaged in a frozen conflict with Russia so overfly rights aren't such a risk

I am still unsure as to whether LOT / WAW can achieve this, but they have a much better chance of succeeding than UIA / KBP
 
Marik154
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:54 pm

Melbourne wrote:
A country in a state of civil war, really this is their focus?

"Civil War"??
So a country which has war on its territories has to forget about civil aviation?

Nonetheless, KBP is looking to open a new transfer zone this year at terminal D. With a shift of low cost carriers to a re-open terminal F at some point this year, transiting through terminal D should become more pleasant.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 345
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:08 pm

UIA plans on removing the 4 767 and replacing them either with more used 777 or some Airbus product. The want to have a total of 12 long distance aircraft. I’m not sure of a time frame for all of this but the CEO hopes to start in 2020 on the fleet change. Also plans on using the new Max to fly up to 6 hour flights to help with the Asia expansion.

https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/40807 ... owcow.html
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW,KRK,FRA,LGW,FCO,ORD,MDW,LAS,DFW,ATL,RDU BNA,BHM,BOS,DTW,FLL,MCO,RSW,TPA,SRQ (LOT,C09,LL40,DPA,6S8)
717 737-3/7/8/9/M8 744 757-2/3 763 788 319 320 321 333 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E195 (PA28,152)
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 345
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:13 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Poland wants to become a Europe-Asia hub. Some laughed at that but the Polish economy is considerably stronger than the Ukrainian economy, WAW's terminal is better suited than KBP and LOT have aircraft that UIA don't. Furthermore Poland isn't engaged in a frozen conflict with Russia so overfly rights aren't such a risk

I am still unsure as to whether LOT / WAW can achieve this, but they have a much better chance of succeeding than UIA / KBP


LOT definitely has better chance right now as they had few years of a head start. Like I post in the LOT and WAW threads, with all the changes coming up in WAW I think LOT will do well. As for UIA, I think just like with Poland once the Ukrainian people have an improved economy and better living conditions I can’t see them not traveling all over the world.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK
WAW,KRK,FRA,LGW,FCO,ORD,MDW,LAS,DFW,ATL,RDU BNA,BHM,BOS,DTW,FLL,MCO,RSW,TPA,SRQ (LOT,C09,LL40,DPA,6S8)
717 737-3/7/8/9/M8 744 757-2/3 763 788 319 320 321 333 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E195 (PA28,152)
 
yuomi
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:57 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:23 pm

Melbourne wrote:
A country in a state of civil war, really this is their focus?


Oh boy, this might not go so well...
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18157
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:31 pm

Folks, keep the politics to non-av. Discuss flight restrictions, bilateral access, but not the politics.
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18157
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:42 pm

Now as an enthusiastic:

WAW and SVO have the same hopes. Like the NE3, there will only be one dominant European side hub to Asia. I'm not seeing an O&D advantage for the Ukraine. I'm not seeing initial flights as the seed for a mega hub.

Any new hub must have an advantage over backtracking to the EU3, going south to the ME3, and IST/ISL. Makemistake, passengers want an end to bridge hubbing for double (and triple) hubbing is stressful. So mega hubs will rule. That is access (visa requirements), timing (hub Banks win), connections (more is better), experience, but always cost is a factor.

There is a hole for a Northern European hub. BER could have been that (with 3+ runways and a 24/7 airport opened timely...), But it won't be decided for over a decade.

But the host city needs the facilities to be the hub: hotels, visitor destinations, airport shops/restaurants. Basically, look at what the ME3 did and realize it must be done more economically.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
AstanaMagic
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:57 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:46 pm

Melbourne wrote:
A country in a state of civil war, really this is their focus?


I travel regularly to KBP, no sign of the civil war you speak of. Certainly there are problems in Luhansk and Donetsk - today these are contained.

Looking at timings of flights, PS needs to think more cleverly (late night departures vs early morning arrivals) and KBP needs additional investment in the airport. The choices of airport hotels are poor, the new train service recently opened from the terminal railway station and promptly broke down.

For me I find Air Astana (KC) a better fit as a Europe-Asia hub and significantly more cost effective than AY. Recently several of the CIS states have changed their visa regimes (Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan) visa on arrival for many nations, to encourage tourism
2019: ALA, AGP, AMM, DXB, FRA, GYD, IST, KBP, KSQ, LGW, LHR, MAD, SVQ, TAS, TBS, TSE, XRY
A/C: 319, 32B, 32S, 32Q, 32V, 321, 333, 332, 73H, 73J, 75W, 76W, 77E, 788, E90, GL5T
A/L: BA, IB, J2, JY, KC, LH, PS, TK, U2
 
AstanaMagic
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:57 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:56 pm

lightsaber wrote:
But the host city needs the facilities to be the hub: hotels, visitor destinations, airport shops/restaurants. Basically, look at what the ME3 did and realize it must be done more economically.

Lightsaber


Kyiv, Almaty and Tbilisi have a wide range of hotels to suit most pockets; restaurants too - great food and beverages on offer. Both Tbilisi and Almaty are relatively close to excellent ski resorts and in Kyiv you can visit the Soviet Missile based and Chernobyl (!!!!). Yes language is an issue, but this is changing too.

Having lived in DXB (until recently) the city is becoming overly expensive and once you have seen one Mall you can keep them. The ME3 did great things but their stars are waning, costs are increasing and the lustre is dull. The airport restaurants in DXB are awful and expensive and the cost of a beer becoming ridiculous (although one has to be grateful for small mercies). Duty Free is also a farce, it’s cheaper in the city or anywhere else than the airport and you still end up having to pay 5% VAT.
2019: ALA, AGP, AMM, DXB, FRA, GYD, IST, KBP, KSQ, LGW, LHR, MAD, SVQ, TAS, TBS, TSE, XRY
A/C: 319, 32B, 32S, 32Q, 32V, 321, 333, 332, 73H, 73J, 75W, 76W, 77E, 788, E90, GL5T
A/L: BA, IB, J2, JY, KC, LH, PS, TK, U2
 
ewt340
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:19 pm

Well their main problems would be the no-fly zone above Russia. Since you know, political tensions has been high in recent years.
The second problems gonna be how they gonna position themself into the market. They don't have the same Government support as ME3.
So the most logical thing they could do is to do cheap tickets and minimum service to attract low-end customers.

As for aircraft, I see cheaper alternatives like older B777-200ER and B737-800. But in the long run, B787-9 and B787-10 would be the option for them since they are already cosying up with Boeing.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Ukraine aspires to be a Europe-Asia aviation hub

Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:36 pm

They have pretty good fares on London-Istanbul. Always a good option when other airlines fill up and get expensive. Kiev is a great place to spend a few days on a stopover - very interesting and cheap city with good hotels and great food. I like flying on their Embraer - the 737, not so much. Last time I flew with them they totally screwed the online check-in process and I had to queue for an hour at Gatwick even though I didn't have any luggage.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos