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TWA902fly
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident today at Presque Isle, ME

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:36 pm

IADCA wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
mcdu wrote:

Why are you upset with the puns? Commutair has run a terribly unreliable operation for years. They are not the cream of the crop and this reinforces that stigma.

Or, maybe he just said "treat [...] carefully" as a tire has treads??? So, "tired", "wheely", "tread"; all related to the thingy that ended up by the engine.


This is correct. "Tread" was very much an intentional pun.


Some people are just always geared up to get offended :lol:

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
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United787
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:46 pm

bacchus101 wrote:
All were released from the hospital yesterday afternoon.


Great news. OK, let the jokes fly ;)

Will be interesting to see if they write this thing off. Its one way of reducing UA's RJ fleet...
 
Ziyulu
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:47 pm

I see at least a couple of window shades closed. Safety hazard.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:22 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I see at least a couple of window shades closed. Safety hazard.

Are you for real? Will you bring the closed window shades every time???

You've already asked the FAA and they've responded to you; just let go of that bone...
 
kalvado
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:27 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I see at least a couple of window shades closed. Safety hazard.

Apparently in this case window shade can provide extra degree of protection for the seat, as pax may be improperly scared by gear flying their way and have inadequate reaction for such benign events.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:37 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I see at least a couple of window shades closed. Safety hazard.

Are you for real? Will you bring the closed window shades every time???

You've already asked the FAA and they've responded to you; just let go of that bone...

That's Ziyulu to you - too many nonsense like this and never listen to others

Back onto the topic, it's clear something went seriously wrong and I very much doubt the plane will ever take off by its own again - it's not like we're lacking ERJ145s sitting in the desert ready to be picked up.

Michael
 
astaz
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:57 am

eamondzhang wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I see at least a couple of window shades closed. Safety hazard.

Are you for real? Will you bring the closed window shades every time???

You've already asked the FAA and they've responded to you; just let go of that bone...

That's Ziyulu to you - too many nonsense like this and never listen to others

Back onto the topic, it's clear something went seriously wrong and I very much doubt the plane will ever take off by its own again - it's not like we're lacking ERJ145s sitting in the desert ready to be picked up.

Michael


Not a single 145XR in the desert though.
 
mhkansan
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:01 am

astaz wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Are you for real? Will you bring the closed window shades every time???

You've already asked the FAA and they've responded to you; just let go of that bone...

That's Ziyulu to you - too many nonsense like this and never listen to others

Back onto the topic, it's clear something went seriously wrong and I very much doubt the plane will ever take off by its own again - it's not like we're lacking ERJ145s sitting in the desert ready to be picked up.

Michael


Not a single 145XR in the desert though.


Yeah, the aircraft is only 14 years old. This bird had a lot of life left in her. It will be interesting to see if it will be returned to service. There is a lot of work to be done!
 
ltbewr
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:40 am

A nose gear in an engine intake is one of the strangest sights of a airliner in an incident or crash I can recall. It is fortunate that it didn't hit the fuselage and hurt anyone. I suspect the level of damage, the age of the a/c, its remaining value, will likely mean become parted and scrapped out.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:40 am

mhkansan wrote:
astaz wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
That's Ziyulu to you - too many nonsense like this and never listen to others

Back onto the topic, it's clear something went seriously wrong and I very much doubt the plane will ever take off by its own again - it's not like we're lacking ERJ145s sitting in the desert ready to be picked up.

Michael


Not a single 145XR in the desert though.


Yeah, the aircraft is only 14 years old. This bird had a lot of life left in her. It will be interesting to see if it will be returned to service. There is a lot of work to be done!

Not for Commutair but I do see stored 145XR - at least per planespotters.net - with other regional carriers (ExpressJet). Not sure about the state of frames and the ownership for these ones but if United really wanted a XR my uneducated guess would say it wouldn't be too difficult to grab them.

Michael
 
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antoniemey
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:52 am

eamondzhang wrote:
mhkansan wrote:
astaz wrote:

Not a single 145XR in the desert though.


Yeah, the aircraft is only 14 years old. This bird had a lot of life left in her. It will be interesting to see if it will be returned to service. There is a lot of work to be done!

Not for Commutair but I do see stored 145XR - at least per planespotters.net - with other regional carriers (ExpressJet). Not sure about the state of frames and the ownership for these ones but if United really wanted a XR my uneducated guess would say it wouldn't be too difficult to grab them.

Michael


Considering the entire fleet of them flies or did fly for CO/UA Express... If my understanding is correct, UA owns or holds the primary lease on every existing XR and then subleases them to the operating carriers.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:07 am

antoniemey wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
mhkansan wrote:

Yeah, the aircraft is only 14 years old. This bird had a lot of life left in her. It will be interesting to see if it will be returned to service. There is a lot of work to be done!

Not for Commutair but I do see stored 145XR - at least per planespotters.net - with other regional carriers (ExpressJet). Not sure about the state of frames and the ownership for these ones but if United really wanted a XR my uneducated guess would say it wouldn't be too difficult to grab them.

Michael


Considering the entire fleet of them flies or did fly for CO/UA Express... If my understanding is correct, UA owns or holds the primary lease on every existing XR and then subleases them to the operating carriers.

Thanks, in that case it would make the job easier to bring them back if UA really needs the frame and this poor bird is indeed written off.

Michael
 
MO11
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:32 am

eamondzhang wrote:
mhkansan wrote:
astaz wrote:

Not a single 145XR in the desert though.


Yeah, the aircraft is only 14 years old. This bird had a lot of life left in her. It will be interesting to see if it will be returned to service. There is a lot of work to be done!

Not for Commutair but I do see stored 145XR - at least per planespotters.net - with other regional carriers (ExpressJet). Not sure about the state of frames and the ownership for these ones but if United really wanted a XR my uneducated guess would say it wouldn't be too difficult to grab them.

Michael


N26141 was leased to Commutair three years ago, but is parked at Kingman. In addition, two were leased to Trans States and are stored at Kingman.
 
bacchus101
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:40 am

The other engine looks like it has a few dents on the intake and probably also feasted on gear debris and snow.

Image
Last edited by bacchus101 on Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
mga707
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:44 am

ltbewr wrote:
A nose gear in an engine intake is one of the strangest sights of a airliner in an incident or crash I can recall. It is fortunate that it didn't hit the fuselage and hurt anyone. I suspect the level of damage, the age of the a/c, its remaining value, will likely mean become parted and scrapped out.


Main gear, not nose gear. A little easier to picture it's trajectory.
 
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usxguy
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:22 am

Recent photos show the plane VERY far off the runway with some tracks left in the snow that makes it appear the plane didn't even touch down ON the runway surface... but instead, to the right of the runway
xx
 
IPFreely
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:20 am

ltbewr wrote:
A nose gear in an engine intake is one of the strangest sights of a airliner in an incident or crash I can recall. It is fortunate that it didn't hit the fuselage and hurt anyone. I suspect the level of damage, the age of the a/c, its remaining value, will likely mean become parted and scrapped out.


I can fix it. Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.
 
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United787
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:54 pm

usxguy wrote:
Recent photos show the plane VERY far off the runway with some tracks left in the snow that makes it appear the plane didn't even touch down ON the runway surface... but instead, to the right of the runway


Can you share the photos? Can't find anything on the world wide web. So they didn't "slide off the end of the runway", they missed the runway all together? Surprised this isn't getting more attention...

MODERATORS, suggest changing title from "incident" to "accident" or "crash"
 
codc10
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:13 pm

usxguy wrote:
Recent photos show the plane VERY far off the runway with some tracks left in the snow that makes it appear the plane didn't even touch down ON the runway surface... but instead, to the right of the runway


The ground tracks (in the snow) indicate the airplane bounced at least once and came down off the runway surface about 30 degrees off the centerline and 50-100 feet laterally (to the right) of the runway. Pretty wild.
 
battlegroup62
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:19 pm

I'd wager then that the reason the gear came off was the deep snow working like the runway end arrestor beds.
We have to keep planes airworthy. That doesn't mean they have to fly.
 
BA777FO
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:28 pm

Good job the pilots had at least 1,500 hours so these kind of things don't happen anymore :duck:

In all seriousness, glad everyone was okay.
 
bacchus101
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:33 pm

The aircraft is currently nowhere near the runway. It's actually quite fortunate that a wing didn't dig in and rip the plane apart. It looks like they traveled hundreds of feet across a 4' deep snowpack.

Image

Image
 
Eugenewats
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:06 pm

Looks like UA flights to PQI through Saturday night are cancelled....
 
RL757PVD
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:21 pm

Skid marks seem to indicate that the aircraft left the runway BEFORE it crossed the crosswind runway, i am curious to see if they even "landed" on the runway to begin with....
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
bacchus101
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:40 pm

They removed the plane today. The NTSB will be releasing more information tomorrow.

Image
 
Moosefire
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:21 am

Has an official categorization of “incident” vs. “accident” been made yet?
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
Cubsrule
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:29 am

Moosefire wrote:
Has an official categorization of “incident” vs. “accident” been made yet?


Is there any question? Either the injuries or the damage alone make it an accident.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:40 am

I'm surprised that a crash hasn't got more media attention. Commutair has some serious problems so I am not surprised that this was them going off roading.
 
N383SW
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:47 am

SierraPacific wrote:
I'm surprised that a crash hasn't got more media attention. Commutair has some serious problems so I am not surprised that this was them going off roading.


What kind of problems does Commutair have? Like poor management/training/SOP? Did they go downhill after the transition from the Dashes to the 145? And I'm asking this genuinely because I've never heard anything about them either way and now I'm curious.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:54 am

N383SW wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
I'm surprised that a crash hasn't got more media attention. Commutair has some serious problems so I am not surprised that this was them going off roading.


What kind of problems does Commutair have? Like poor management/training/SOP? Did they go downhill after the transition from the Dashes to the 145? And I'm asking this genuinely because I've never heard anything about them either way and now I'm curious.


Curious about this too, I've never heard of these serious problems before.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:25 am

NYPECO wrote:
N383SW wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
I'm surprised that a crash hasn't got more media attention. Commutair has some serious problems so I am not surprised that this was them going off roading.


What kind of problems does Commutair have? Like poor management/training/SOP? Did they go downhill after the transition from the Dashes to the 145? And I'm asking this genuinely because I've never heard anything about them either way and now I'm curious.


Curious about this too, I've never heard of these serious problems before.


I have just heard from various pilot friends that Commutair has bad retention issues (short staffed since the E 145 transition) and very fatiguing schedules. They are hiring direct entry captains with minimum experience and flying them to the FAA limit. This leads to inexperienced captains with 1500 hour first officers flying fatigued. I don't want to say that this combo caused this accident but it would be a plausible explanation for landing completely off of the runway.
 
bacchus101
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:41 pm

Image

A little spit shine and she'll be as good as new.
 
freakyrat
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:31 am

kalvado wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I see at least a couple of window shades closed. Safety hazard.

Apparently in this case window shade can provide extra degree of protection for the seat, as pax may be improperly scared by gear flying their way and have inadequate reaction for such benign events.


I was just on a recent fight on another carrier. The FA's said that the only window shades that are required to be up for takeoff and landing are those in the exit rows.
 
N649DL
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:41 am

United787 wrote:
bacchus101 wrote:
All were released from the hospital yesterday afternoon.


Great news. OK, let the jokes fly ;)

Will be interesting to see if they write this thing off. Its one way of reducing UA's RJ fleet...


Is that a cynical joke or something? Screwed up if it is, you know Smisek (who almost went to jail) from CO/UA was in favor of this crap and got canned because of the Port Authority deal.

Not to mention the Colgan crash in BUF (Andrew Dice Clay) "What rock did you crawl out from? Huh pal?"
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:06 am

N649DL wrote:
Is that a cynical joke or something? Screwed up if it is, you know Smisek (who almost went to jail) from CO/UA was in favor of this crap and got canned because of the Port Authority deal.

Not to mention the Colgan crash in BUF (Andrew Dice Clay) "What rock did you crawl out from? Huh pal?"


Still don't know why Smisek wasn't charged; from the following article:

"Smisek actually sat at dinner with the Chairman of the Port Authority which is in charge of United hub Newark airport, and listened to the Chairman’s request for a special flight to and from his vacation home in exchange for official actions. And instead of notifying the FBI, United provided the flight."

Isn't that lack of notification a crime in and of itself? Even before making the bribe to the Port Authority?

Full article: https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... y-scandal/
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
N649DL
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:26 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Is that a cynical joke or something? Screwed up if it is, you know Smisek (who almost went to jail) from CO/UA was in favor of this crap and got canned because of the Port Authority deal.

Not to mention the Colgan crash in BUF (Andrew Dice Clay) "What rock did you crawl out from? Huh pal?"


Still don't know why Smisek wasn't charged; from the following article:

"Smisek actually sat at dinner with the Chairman of the Port Authority which is in charge of United hub Newark airport, and listened to the Chairman’s request for a special flight to and from his vacation home in exchange for official actions. And instead of notifying the FBI, United provided the flight."

Isn't that lack of notification a crime in and of itself? Even before making the bribe to the Port Authority?

Full article: https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... y-scandal/


All part of that "Rigged System." I found several photos on Getty Images where Smisek had meetings with Obama, he probably got a pass after all of that.
 
KCaviator
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:45 am

I don’t know how to post pics, but there’s an aerial photo that was posted on one of the pilot forums showing the track of the plane in the snow.

They weren’t even close to the runway, and extremely lucky no one died or was seriously injured. This is 100% an accident.
 
dr1980
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:50 am

bacchus101 wrote:
Image

A little spit shine and she'll be as good as new.


Boy that landing gear is really wedged in by the engine, I thought moving the plane might shake it loose.
Dave/CYHZ
 
bacchus101
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:47 pm

As many have speculated, they indeed missed the runway.

https://bangordailynews.com/2019/03/21/ ... e-airport/

The radar tracking system shows that the plane was aligned right of the runway during both its first approach, when the pilot decided not to land, and the second approach when it did touch down, according to investigators.


At the time there was "light to moderate snow" which are basically the daily conditions from late November until April at PQI.
 
F27500
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:22 pm

I think the thing I'm most shocked at is 28 people going to Presque Isle, Maine .. . . in March!?!
 
Pyrex
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:43 am

FlyHossD wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Is that a cynical joke or something? Screwed up if it is, you know Smisek (who almost went to jail) from CO/UA was in favor of this crap and got canned because of the Port Authority deal.

Not to mention the Colgan crash in BUF (Andrew Dice Clay) "What rock did you crawl out from? Huh pal?"


Still don't know why Smisek wasn't charged; from the following article:

"Smisek actually sat at dinner with the Chairman of the Port Authority which is in charge of United hub Newark airport, and listened to the Chairman’s request for a special flight to and from his vacation home in exchange for official actions. And instead of notifying the FBI, United provided the flight."

Isn't that lack of notification a crime in and of itself? Even before making the bribe to the Port Authority?

Full article: https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... y-scandal/


So if you own a small store and Crazy Vito and Fat Tony walk in saying what a nice store you had and that it would be a shame if something were to happen to it, should you go to jail as well for paying for the "protection" instead of reporting the extortion attempt to the FBI? Because there is, in actual practice, very little difference between the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and the Mafia (down on the docks in Elizabeth they are basically one and the same).
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:20 pm

My roommate’s friend was the Capt. She hasn’t really been in contact with anyone since.

Interested to see on the official report what actually transpired.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:24 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
My roommate’s friend was the Capt. She hasn’t really been in contact with anyone since.

Interested to see on the official report what actually transpired.

Not surprising
 
N766UA
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:24 pm

bacchus101 wrote:
As many have speculated, they indeed missed the runway.

https://bangordailynews.com/2019/03/21/ ... e-airport/

The radar tracking system shows that the plane was aligned right of the runway during both its first approach, when the pilot decided not to land, and the second approach when it did touch down, according to investigators.


At the time there was "light to moderate snow" which are basically the daily conditions from late November until April at PQI.


You don’t miss a runway without some serious lapses in judgement. You don’t go below MDA unless you see lights or the runway, and if you see those you don’t just “end up” in the grass. *Why* they’d descend below MDA without seeing the runway is the big question: low fuel? Distant alternate? Get-there-itis following the go-around? Will be interesting reading for sure.
 
drdisque
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:00 pm

F27500 wrote:
I think the thing I'm most shocked at is 28 people going to Presque Isle, Maine .. . . in March!?!


load was higher than normal because the previous flight had canceled due to weather.
 
Blockplus
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:16 pm

As has happened at several other airports, I believe that the vasi/papi is on the non standard side of the runway. If it wasn’t briefed it might cause (with optical distortion from the snow ) the taxi lights and runway lights to appear as though you were lined up.

It also appears that the ventral skid held up and kept the belly off the ground. (Only on the xrs)
 
B757capt
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:36 am

Any word on the airframe?
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:17 am

bacchus101 wrote:
Image

A little spit shine and she'll be as good as new.


Looking at that pic, it looks like both MLGs are missing (which can explain the damage to the intake on the #2 engine). That had to be one horrific landing to not only shear off 1 MLG but BOTH! The NLG just looks collapsed which is not surprising to me considering the track the plane took.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
32andBelow
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:44 am

F27500 wrote:
I think the thing I'm most shocked at is 28 people going to Presque Isle, Maine .. . . in March!?!

It’s like a 6 hour drive if you don’t fly. A lot of these passengers are people that have cancer and stuff.
 
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DL717
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Re: United Express/Commutair incident 3/4 at Presque Isle, ME

Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:59 am

United787 wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Recent photos show the plane VERY far off the runway with some tracks left in the snow that makes it appear the plane didn't even touch down ON the runway surface... but instead, to the right of the runway


Can you share the photos? Can't find anything on the world wide web. So they didn't "slide off the end of the runway", they missed the runway all together? Surprised this isn't getting more attention...

MODERATORS, suggest changing title from "incident" to "accident" or "crash"


The aircraft was involved in the accident. The event is an incident
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.

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