Quint1
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:31 pm

Apparently it's been decided.
7 KLM A350's to be swapped for 6 of AF's to be delivered 787's.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... oeing-787s
 
Flanker7
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:40 pm

The word is out no A350 for KLM but extra 787 that where assigned to AF. Luchtvaartnieuws.nl
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airbuster
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:16 pm

Flanker7 wrote:
The word is out no A350 for KLM but extra 787 that where assigned to AF. Luchtvaartnieuws.nl


Not saying it isn’t true but they are again quoting the same source. The company itself hasn’t made a public statement yet.

However I’m interested in why KLM choses to have a significant gap in its fleet in the near future if you go from a 737-900 to 787-9, missing the entry level 250 seat long haul segment. Any ideas on this?
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inkjet7
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:04 pm

airbuster wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
The word is out no A350 for KLM but extra 787 that where assigned to AF. Luchtvaartnieuws.nl


Not saying it isn’t true but they are again quoting the same source. The company itself hasn’t made a public statement yet.

However I’m interested in why KLM choses to have a significant gap in its fleet in the near future if you go from a 737-900 to 787-9, missing the entry level 250 seat long haul segment. Any ideas on this?


They have their A330-200's in the 250 seat range.
 
Flanker7
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:09 pm

airbuster wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
The word is out no A350 for KLM but extra 787 that where assigned to AF. Luchtvaartnieuws.nl


Not saying it isn’t true but they are again quoting the same source. The company itself hasn’t made a public statement yet.

However I’m interested in why KLM choses to have a significant gap in its fleet in the near future if you go from a 737-900 to 787-9, missing the entry level 250 seat long haul segment. Any ideas on this?


Well they have the 268 seat a 330-200 and they are still relatively young so that covers the midrange somewhat. It will be interesting to see what the NB replacement will bring to narrow that gap.
Flying blue only if possible
 
Jetty
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:59 am

airbuster wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
The word is out no A350 for KLM but extra 787 that where assigned to AF. Luchtvaartnieuws.nl


Not saying it isn’t true but they are again quoting the same source. The company itself hasn’t made a public statement yet.

While it doesn’t specify a source they claim to have a new source within the airline rather than a union newsletter that was the source of the previous article. In general this website is very reliable.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:06 am

With Air France's B789s set to be transferred to KLM, would it also make sense for a top-up order of B788s for KLM, about 10 to bump the eight A332s to AF? (The five A333s are all leased, but they could go to Air France as well.)

This would make the KLM mainline fleet: B737, B738, B739 (non-ER), B77E, B77W, B788, B789, B78X (with B744s phased out). AF would be: A318/19/20/21, A332, A333, A359, and A388. (I doubt that there are any A343 routes still remaining for which the A333 does not have the range.) However, the B737s are on their way out (one lease was assumed by Luxair) and those B739s are getting up in age...is there a MAX 8 order/A320neo order on the horizon for the group? I see: KLM all Boeing, Air France all Airbus.
 
airbuster
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:22 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
With Air France's B789s set to be transferred to KLM, would it also make sense for a top-up order of B788s for KLM, about 10 to bump the eight A332s to AF? (The five A333s are all leased, but they could go to Air France as well.)

This would make the KLM mainline fleet: B737, B738, B739 (non-ER), B77E, B77W, B788, B789, B78X (with B744s phased out). AF would be: A318/19/20/21, A332, A333, A359, and A388. (I doubt that there are any A343 routes still remaining for which the A333 does not have the range.) However, the B737s are on their way out (one lease was assumed by Luxair) and those B739s are getting up in age...is there a MAX 8 order/A320neo order on the horizon for the group? I see: KLM all Boeing, Air France all Airbus.


This is one of the scenarios I was asking about in my question about the seat gap in the fleet around 250 seats. I am aware that the A330 fills this nicely for now but they are planned to be on their way out in 2024/25 . So what happens next. 788 as you say would be nice. Or is this segment not needed due to slot restricted Schiphol? How about 330NEO’s?
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jbs2886
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:43 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
With Air France's B789s set to be transferred to KLM, would it also make sense for a top-up order of B788s for KLM, about 10 to bump the eight A332s to AF? (The five A333s are all leased, but they could go to Air France as well.)

This would make the KLM mainline fleet: B737, B738, B739 (non-ER), B77E, B77W, B788, B789, B78X (with B744s phased out). AF would be: A318/19/20/21, A332, A333, A359, and A388. (I doubt that there are any A343 routes still remaining for which the A333 does not have the range.) However, the B737s are on their way out (one lease was assumed by Luxair) and those B739s are getting up in age...is there a MAX 8 order/A320neo order on the horizon for the group? I see: KLM all Boeing, Air France all Airbus.


1) I believe the articles have stated AF will keep their current 787s and the soon to be delivered ones.
2) Why do all these aircraft need to be transferred? AF and KLM do not have the same product, that would be expensive refurbs just for consistent fleets.
3) What is with the obsessions KLM has to be all Boeing and AF all Airbus? It’s nonsense. Don’t forget, AF operates nearly 70 777s.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:56 am

jbs2886 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
With Air France's B789s set to be transferred to KLM, would it also make sense for a top-up order of B788s for KLM, about 10 to bump the eight A332s to AF? (The five A333s are all leased, but they could go to Air France as well.)

This would make the KLM mainline fleet: B737, B738, B739 (non-ER), B77E, B77W, B788, B789, B78X (with B744s phased out). AF would be: A318/19/20/21, A332, A333, A359, and A388. (I doubt that there are any A343 routes still remaining for which the A333 does not have the range.) However, the B737s are on their way out (one lease was assumed by Luxair) and those B739s are getting up in age...is there a MAX 8 order/A320neo order on the horizon for the group? I see: KLM all Boeing, Air France all Airbus.


1) I believe the articles have stated AF will keep their current 787s and the soon to be delivered ones.
2) Why do all these aircraft need to be transferred? AF and KLM do not have the same product, that would be expensive refurbs just for consistent fleets.
3) What is with the obsessions KLM has to be all Boeing and AF all Airbus? It’s nonsense. Don’t forget, AF operates nearly 70 777s.


Forgot about the 777s. That said, the A359s could do better than 468-seat B77Ws on long domestic routes, which could be reconfigured into 5-class planes.
 
Flanker7
Posts: 334
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:39 am

airbuster wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
With Air France's B789s set to be transferred to KLM, would it also make sense for a top-up order of B788s for KLM, about 10 to bump the eight A332s to AF? (The five A333s are all leased, but they could go to Air France as well.)

This would make the KLM mainline fleet: B737, B738, B739 (non-ER), B77E, B77W, B788, B789, B78X (with B744s phased out). AF would be: A318/19/20/21, A332, A333, A359, and A388. (I doubt that there are any A343 routes still remaining for which the A333 does not have the range.) However, the B737s are on their way out (one lease was assumed by Luxair) and those B739s are getting up in age...is there a MAX 8 order/A320neo order on the horizon for the group? I see: KLM all Boeing, Air France all Airbus.


This is one of the scenarios I was asking about in my question about the seat gap in the fleet around 250 seats. I am aware that the A330 fills this nicely for now but they are planned to be on their way out in 2024/25 . So what happens next. 788 as you say would be nice. Or is this segment not needed due to slot restricted Schiphol? How about 330NEO’s?


The 787-8 could be a contender and would fit in the philosophy of only two longhaul types. But ot wouldn't surprise me if the 787-9 is going to be the smallest type. Question is fo they need a 250 segment aircraft?
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frigatebird
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:12 am

jbs2886 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
With Air France's B789s set to be transferred to KLM, would it also make sense for a top-up order of B788s for KLM, about 10 to bump the eight A332s to AF? (The five A333s are all leased, but they could go to Air France as well.)

This would make the KLM mainline fleet: B737, B738, B739 (non-ER), B77E, B77W, B788, B789, B78X (with B744s phased out). AF would be: A318/19/20/21, A332, A333, A359, and A388. (I doubt that there are any A343 routes still remaining for which the A333 does not have the range.) However, the B737s are on their way out (one lease was assumed by Luxair) and those B739s are getting up in age...is there a MAX 8 order/A320neo order on the horizon for the group? I see: KLM all Boeing, Air France all Airbus.


1) I believe the articles have stated AF will keep their current 787s and the soon to be delivered ones.
2) Why do all these aircraft need to be transferred? AF and KLM do not have the same product, that would be expensive refurbs just for consistent fleets.
3) What is with the obsessions KLM has to be all Boeing and AF all Airbus? It’s nonsense. Don’t forget, AF operates nearly 70 777s.


1) Correct. The latest article is more precise, 6 787s which were to be delivered to AF will now go to KL. Which implies AF's 787 fleet will grow from 7 to 10 and remain at this number.
2) If all of AF's 787s were to go to KL, AF would be short of planes and KL would have too many. And that case transferring KL's A330s to AF would be necessary. But this scenerio is indeed not happening.
3) According to the article, Rene de Groot, KL's COO mentioned a preference for an all Boeing widebody fleet, for cost and efficiency reasons, pilots have the same type rating for 777s and 787s.

airbuster wrote:
I am aware that the A330 fills this nicely for now but they are planned to be on their way out in 2024/25 . So what happens next. 788 as you say would be nice. Or is this segment not needed due to slot restricted Schiphol? How about 330NEO’s?

KL bought all their current A332s but one from the lessor, are you sure about this retirement date? I haven't this timefrime before.

Flanker7 wrote:
The 787-8 could be a contender and would fit in the philosophy of only two longhaul types. But ot wouldn't surprise me if the 787-9 is going to be the smallest type. Question is fo they need a 250 segment aircraft?


Well, KL replaced 4 A332s which were returned to the lessor with 789s, so I don't think KL believes they need the 788.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Forgot about the 777s. That said, the A359s could do better than 468-seat B77Ws on long domestic routes, which could be reconfigured into 5-class planes.


I have no idea what you mean. Replacing high density 468 seat 77W with A359s? 5 class planes?
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
76er
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:28 pm

The 788 is today's incarnation of the 762. It's CASM are just too high for an airline like KL with relatively few high yielding seats. I know better, but would love to see the 321LR and/or 330NEO for KL's medium-(not-so)-longhaul fleet for flights somewhere between 5 to 9 hours. Not gonna happen..
 
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Polot
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Re: KLM CEO: We will take delivery of A350

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:31 pm

76er wrote:
The 788 is today's incarnation of the 762. It's CASM are just too high for an airline like KL with relatively few high yielding seats. I know better, but would love to see the 321LR and/or 330NEO for KL's medium-(not-so)-longhaul fleet for flights somewhere between 5 to 9 hours. Not gonna happen..

The A330neo is not really any better than the 788 for its purposes (see the minimal A338 sales) and the A321 is too small for many routes.

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