United Airlines "Evolution" to Globe Livery released

Rdh3e · Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:18 am

N649DL wrote:
It just seems politically motivated, thick glass ceiling type of corporate work culture.
.

http://ir.united.com/corporate-governan ... leadership

UA has many women in senior roles. It's not 50/50 (yet) but it's certainly been trending the right direction. Care to back up your statement?

tommyarias · Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:04 am

N766UA wrote:
Elshad wrote:
I think Copa will be forced to update otherwise it will look weird. They should do the same basic livery but with a Panama red cheatline. I think it will look neat and match their national colours (red, white and blue)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Copa’s ties to CO/UA end when they sold their shares? Why would Copa continue to follow UA’s branding when they have absolutely nothing to do with one another?

The last change in the CM livery was the update in the font (Which was needed). After that, nothing has been changed or replicated from UA's branding. CM decided not to use the UA's wave livery on the MAX to keep a consistent look throughout the fleet. CM will not update their livery to match UA's new (IMHO, awful) livery, they are more likely to update to a similar version of the ConnectMiles livery and Wingo's livery. The feeling at CM is that the livery would devalue the brand, making it look more of a LLC than a legacy carrier. 'Copa Airlines' is the name used on all the marketing materials, compared to UA with 'United' in some and 'United Airlines' in others, so it would make it impossible to replicate without having to go back to the 'COPA' logo.

GSPSPOT · Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:35 am

I actually think that the livery update is a step forward, if only a tiny one. I would have preferred the 787 (and 737max?) livery, but with the billboard UNITED as with the new livery.

N649DL · Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:28 am

Rdh3e wrote:
N649DL wrote:
It just seems politically motivated, thick glass ceiling type of corporate work culture.
.

http://ir.united.com/corporate-governan ... leadership

UA has many women in senior roles. It's not 50/50 (yet) but it's certainly been trending the right direction. Care to back up your statement?

What does gender ratio have to do with this? I'm talking overall culture and transparency of the company at large. It's just my opinion, I don't need to back it up.

787X30 · Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:28 am

tommyarias wrote:
.... The feeling at CM is that the livery would devalue the brand, making it look more of a LLC than a legacy carrier. ...

It'll grow on them. :stirthepot:

Rdh3e · Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:47 am

N649DL wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
N649DL wrote:
It just seems politically motivated, thick glass ceiling type of corporate work culture.
.

http://ir.united.com/corporate-governan ... leadership

UA has many women in senior roles. It's not 50/50 (yet) but it's certainly been trending the right direction. Care to back up your statement?

What does gender ratio have to do with this? I'm talking overall culture and transparency of the company at large. It's just my opinion, I don't need to back it up.

Glass ceiling is a term synonymous with gender discrimination. I highly doubt you were unaware of that fact.

N649DL · Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:44 am

Rdh3e wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
http://ir.united.com/corporate-governan ... leadership

UA has many women in senior roles. It's not 50/50 (yet) but it's certainly been trending the right direction. Care to back up your statement?

What does gender ratio have to do with this? I'm talking overall culture and transparency of the company at large. It's just my opinion, I don't need to back it up.

Glass ceiling is a term synonymous with gender discrimination. I highly doubt you were unaware of that fact.

Not really. "Glass Ceiling" to me means lack of transparency by management and/or preventing of employees to advance because they simply don't want to (EG: "Boys Club.") UAL seems to be that way these days.

questions · Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:54 am

N649DL wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
N649DL wrote:

What does gender ratio have to do with this? I'm talking overall culture and transparency of the company at large. It's just my opinion, I don't need to back it up.

Glass ceiling is a term synonymous with gender discrimination. I highly doubt you were unaware of that fact.

Not really. "Glass Ceiling" to me means lack of transparency by management and/or preventing of employees to advance because they simply don't want to (EG: "Boys Club.") UAL seems to be that way these days.

Glass ceiling refers to women being able to advance beyond a certain level. Rice ceiling refers to Asians being able to advance beyond a certain level. I’m sure there are other “ceilings.”

The “Boys Club” is prevalent in a lot of organizations and locks people out of advancing beyond the ceiling.

Most organizations have a “club” of some sort that may be mixed gender and race. I’ve seen it at several companies. They are difficult to get into. Employees identified as “high potentials” — i.e., into the “club” — are untouchable and get away with a ton of shit because they’re protected by those in the “club.” However all it takes is for a couple of people in the “club” to leave and everyone starts jockeying for position and the dynamics of the “club” change and some don’t remain in the new “club.”

No doubt UA has a “club.”

Yonderlust · Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:58 am

VC10er wrote:
Yonderlust wrote:
I dislike the matchy matchy engine, winglets and tail. I like this particular shade of blue but overall this refreshed livery seems completely uninspired. I'm sure they used in-house marketing department along with outside branding agencies. A better path would be to get submittals from fashion designers, musicians, architects and the like. Stay away from these corporate marketing wanks.

Hello Yonderlust, I am a "corporate marketing wank" and damn well proud of it. Many people in my field would probably just laugh you off. I will take some time to explain a bit.
I started out as a designer in 1980 at the age of 20, at a small agency on Madison Ave. It was not a very good one, but it was "experience", A gentleman there named Joe Esposito took me under his wing. I would say he was in his mid 50's. Joe had personality flaws (a very bad temper and no filters) that held him back from becoming more than a Senior Designer at a small Madison Ave agency, but that had nothing to do with his talent or intelligence. Joe was there after had a very impressive career working in "branding" design. He told me in 1980 that there was one design agency (this was before the words: "Brand or Branding" really meant anything) and that this single agency was lightyears ahead of any other design agency, the very best, the largest and ONLY global design agency in the world. It was the agency who brought great importance to what we do as designers for our clients, and that what we do is a CRITICAL driver of business, "as critical as ADVERTISING". That statement was (at that time) simply OUTRAGEOUS. The BIG agencies were the "originators and keepers" of a brand, be it OREO cookies, Ford, dog food or an AIRLINE. That agency was Landor. I learned everything I could about them and made a goal for myself, that I would find jobs at lesser places for 10 years, but use the projects they had as a way to build a portfolio good enough to get a job there. Finally, in 1991, I had built the confidence to interview there, and was on cloud 9 that I got the job. Landor, at that time was also the global leader in airline branding. Basically, Walter Landor pitched Alitalia in the mid 1960's on the idea that the aircraft itself was like a "package" design, or flying Ad. Like a bottle of Coca-Cola or like a famous brand of cosmetics, and sold them on the idea that how the aircraft looked, telegraphed to the consumer what the brand about, not just another metal airplane with a name and flag of origin. I worked for 24 years either with or along side with some of these brilliant people. - to think of most of them as "wonks" or that the best of these designers as "less than creative" as Fashion Designer or architect blows my mind. The folks I know who did Landor BA and Cathay etc, etc were geniuses...especially Peter Knapp. (If I was CEO of a major airline, I'd call him FIRST!)

I don't know what you profession is, what your area of expertise is, but there is an excellent chance I would NOT be in a position to make calls about how to do what you do better. However, I would place an enormous bet against having thousands of solutions being submitted willy-nilly from people OUTSIDE your area of expertise is a better idea than consulting with experts who have many, many years of experience in your profession, got the benefit of what they learned through trial and error elsewhere who truly understand how things work in your profession.

You can dislike this UA livery, "design" all you want and why, and you would not be wrong as opinions are not fact or science. But frankly you are taking extremely smart, experienced and very talented people and throwing them ALL under a bus because you don't like this livery means that you don't understand or lack the knowledge of what marketing professionals, brand and branding designers actually do. And, I would be remiss not to mention, disrespectful and hurtful.

The wanks comment, not wonks, refers to their ability to produce visually sublime and stunning artistry only. Creativity, experience and intellect do not necessarily equate to beauty in design. As for their professionalism, I have no opinion. Since we are discussing a non-technical subjective topic, outside views cannot, by nature, be incorrect. As for hurt feelings, an "IMHO" comment from a stranger on the internet should barely register a twinge.

tpaewr · Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:44 am

UA has plenty of flaws. But it has no “ceiling” we have plenty of leaders that are women, black, gay, bi , poly, whatever. Our CEO is Mexican!

I am far from a United apologist but to claim it is not equal opportunity is BS.

If we do anything well, it is being inclusive.

The new Brand Evolution video makes point to include EVERYONE (UA, CO, CS, etc) history.

Say what you will about the past (and there is much to say!) I really think the effort to move forward as one is here.

(Can’t promise it will work, but the effort is there and should be acknowledged)

oldannyboy · Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:44 am

CLEguy wrote:
Here's Patrick Smith's assessment (he's very opinionated about this subject and has written extensively about airline liveries-search his site). He gives it a "C" grade. I'd say a B- overall. I think it will grow on me.

http://www.askthepilot.com/new-united-livery/

Agree, it's BAD.
Looks cheap, unimaginative, corporational, bland. Agree too that the 'garden hose' is seriously out of place and unnecessary. The light blue globe is too garish. And removing the golden accent is criminal.
Piss-poor is my rating.

Sooner787 · Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:01 pm

Any more word on the B789 that is in AMA getting the new livery applied?

Supposed to have gone into paint hangar on 17 Apr?

BWIAirport · Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:16 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Any more word on the B789 that is in AMA getting the new livery applied?

Supposed to have gone into paint hangar on 17 Apr?

Apparently that was just touch-up paint work, it's still in the old livery.

Sooner787 · Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:32 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Any more word on the B789 that is in AMA getting the new livery applied?

Supposed to have gone into paint hangar on 17 Apr?

Apparently that was just touch-up paint work, it's still in the old livery.

Bummer. Guess we'll have to wait for new deliveries to see any more birds in the new livery,
at least until the summer travel season has passed.

DenverTed · Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:34 pm

Can't have just a one color engine or winglet. They need at least some light blue pinstriping like the Braniff ultra scheme. Or some light blue rectangles on the engine to allude to the grid on the globe, or the light blue fade out on the tip. Anything.

NYCDM · Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:02 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Any more word on the B789 that is in AMA getting the new livery applied?

Supposed to have gone into paint hangar on 17 Apr?

Apparently that was just touch-up paint work, it's still in the old livery.

Bummer - can’t wait to see the new livery on the 789 & 77W

JBo · Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:31 pm

DenverTed wrote:
Can't have just a one color engine or winglet. They need at least some light blue pinstriping like the Braniff ultra scheme. Or some light blue rectangles on the engine to allude to the grid on the globe, or the light blue fade out on the tip. Anything.

Single-color is easier and cheaper as far as both weight savings, and ease of maintenance when it comes to replacing/sapping out parts of the engine cowl.

NYCDM · Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:00 pm

Curious if UA will accelerate repainting, or if they’ll only repaint when aircraft go in for D checks / heavy maintenance. Oscar’s messaging has been consistent with the latter, but suspect they’ll eventually speed things up to have consistency across the entire fleet.

Sooner787 · Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:26 pm

NYCDM wrote:
Curious if UA will accelerate repainting, or if they’ll only repaint when aircraft go in for D checks / heavy maintenance. Oscar’s messaging has been consistent with the latter, but suspect they’ll eventually speed things up to have consistency across the entire fleet.

Given the positive reaction to the new livery, I'm sure the marketing folks are anxious
to get on with it.

But even with an accelerated schedule, still looking at 5-6 years to repaint the
entire fleet.

NYCDM · Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:08 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
NYCDM wrote:
Curious if UA will accelerate repainting, or if they’ll only repaint when aircraft go in for D checks / heavy maintenance. Oscar’s messaging has been consistent with the latter, but suspect they’ll eventually speed things up to have consistency across the entire fleet.

Given the positive reaction to the new livery, I'm sure the marketing folks are anxious
to get on with it.

But even with an accelerated schedule, still looking at 5-6 years to repaint the
entire fleet.

Yeah, you’re probably right. 4 aircraft a week = 5 years to get the full fleet repainted. Crazy when you put the numbers together.

The media response to the evolved livery was mostly positive, which I’m sure their marketing/PR teams are excited about. The social sentiment (and reactions here) however were pretty mixed IMHO.

adambrau · Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:19 am

VC10er wrote:
adambrau wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
My efforts:

Either of these would have been so much better - nice work! I think the swoosh and the billboard 'United' and the tail globe are all individually fine elements. But together they're disconnected and a mess - it screams LCC which is not to diss LCC's, but more to the point that UA is not branding itself as an LCC. Disappointing!

IMHO: This is by far the BEST version of the best U N I T E D branding. Sadly, it would have never been approved as it would be TOO MUCH like "Shades of Blue" and viewed as a step backwards. Although, I'd argue that VERY, VERY FEW of the general flying population would have realized it, because MOSTLY people don't really notice such things (Ex: how much of the Gen Pop is like us?),
Also, "Shades of Blue" was actually never painted fleet wide, nor around long enough, and gone for enough years that recall from the average person would be very, very low.

This livery, it is SOOOO U N I T E D, but with a more refined look that would work much harder to bolster UA's new goal of being the most premium focused airline (at least from PE up to Polaris, lol)
Who ever created this livery... want to work with my agency?

Yeah agree the above is my wet dream. Could have been worse, which though is never a huge endorsement

Anecdotally on the Airtrain today from Newark Airport rail station over to the terminals, I spoke with a UA pilot and ground staffer about the new logo. No-one is right or wrong, but these troops felt the current livery was better and the "evolution" was 'politely' a PR exercise from the Willis Tower executed "by committee" - ie why bother make something OK even worse. True that United will always suffer mistrust between the ranks and management but this is a lost opportunity to create a refreshed brand image. United - too big and too many heads! Life goes on.

TWA772LR · Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:48 am

adambrau wrote:
VC10er wrote:
adambrau wrote:

Either of these would have been so much better - nice work! I think the swoosh and the billboard 'United' and the tail globe are all individually fine elements. But together they're disconnected and a mess - it screams LCC which is not to diss LCC's, but more to the point that UA is not branding itself as an LCC. Disappointing!

IMHO: This is by far the BEST version of the best U N I T E D branding. Sadly, it would have never been approved as it would be TOO MUCH like "Shades of Blue" and viewed as a step backwards. Although, I'd argue that VERY, VERY FEW of the general flying population would have realized it, because MOSTLY people don't really notice such things (Ex: how much of the Gen Pop is like us?),
Also, "Shades of Blue" was actually never painted fleet wide, nor around long enough, and gone for enough years that recall from the average person would be very, very low.

This livery, it is SOOOO U N I T E D, but with a more refined look that would work much harder to bolster UA's new goal of being the most premium focused airline (at least from PE up to Polaris, lol)
Who ever created this livery... want to work with my agency?

Yeah agree the above is my wet dream. Could have been worse, which though is never a huge endorsement

Anecdotally on the Airtrain today from Newark Airport rail station over to the terminals, I spoke with a UA pilot and ground staffer about the new logo. No-one is right or wrong, but these troops felt the current livery was better and the "evolution" was 'politely' a PR exercise from the Willis Tower executed "by committee" - ie why bother make something OK even worse. True that United will always suffer mistrust between the ranks and management but this is a lost opportunity to create a refreshed brand image. United - too big and too many heads! Life goes on.

Interesting to hear. Perhaps they should've come down to finalists and have the employees vote or at least garner input from employees.

ftzvika · Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:51 am

Shouldnt any 787 be out of paint by now? Why haven't i seen no any photos with 787 with the new scheme?

Any idea of 777 in painting with the new livery ?
Thanks

jworks158 · Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:58 pm

ftzvika wrote:
Shouldnt any 787 be out of paint by now? Why haven't i seen no any photos with 787 with the new scheme?

Any idea of 777 in painting with the new livery ?
Thanks

You can track aircraft in paint here: https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/
Currently there are no aircraft in paint.

The 787 that was in paint came out in the old scheme.

Sooner787 · Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:02 pm

jworks158 wrote:
ftzvika wrote:
Shouldnt any 787 be out of paint by now? Why haven't i seen no any photos with 787 with the new scheme?

Any idea of 777 in painting with the new livery ?
Thanks

You can track aircraft in paint here: https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/
Currently there are no aircraft in paint.

The 787 that was in paint came out in the old scheme.

Muchos Gracias

questions · Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:31 pm

adambrau wrote:
Anecdotally on the Airtrain today from Newark Airport rail station over to the terminals, I spoke with a UA pilot and ground staffer about the new logo. No-one is right or wrong, but these troops felt the current livery was better and the "evolution" was 'politely' a PR exercise from the Willis Tower executed "by committee" - ie why bother make something OK even worse. True that United will always suffer mistrust between the ranks and management but this is a lost opportunity to create a refreshed brand image. United - too big and too many heads! Life goes on.

By committee is right. See my post below...

questions wrote:
CLEguy wrote:
Here's Patrick Smith's assessment (he's very opinionated about this subject and has written extensively about airline liveries-search his site). He gives it a "C" grade. I'd say a B- overall. I think it will grow on me.

http://www.askthepilot.com/new-united-livery/

Reading the comments, I wasn't the only one who thought that there is fairy dust on the tail...

Dick Hardate says:
April 25, 2019 at 10:01 pm
It looks like it’s the output of an HR-facilitated design session — no connection to the business strategy; lack of focus on the target; watered down compromise… but everyone felt good and liked the M&M’s.

Pro’s
– Freshly painted aircraft

Con’s
– The fairy dust on the top of the tail makes no sense
– The blue globe design is flat, no depth. Looks like a cheap effort
– The wavy “cheatline” is dated
– Rhapsody Blue should have been the predominant color, not United Blue

Overall, good intentions poorly executed — which is consistent with the United brand.

skipness1E · Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:38 pm

Of course we all know first impressions often change once we clap eyes on the thing in real life in good light. We know that? Right?

Even Lufthansa grew on me after I saw a few

Sooner787 · Wed May 01, 2019 1:08 am

You know the 737 NG's aren't the sexiest jets in the skies, yet the livery looks great on the first 738.

Not sure how the new livery will look on stubby planes like the 737-700 and A319.

I suspect the longer the fuselage, the better the new livery will look ...ie 77W's , 787-9 's and 10's and the 757-300

NYCDM · Wed May 01, 2019 1:54 am

Sooner787 wrote:
You know the 737 NG's aren't the sexiest jets in the skies, yet the livery looks great on the first 738.

Not sure how the new livery will look on stubby planes like the 737-700 and A319.

I suspect the longer the fuselage, the better the new livery will look ...ie 77W's , 787-9 's and 10's and the 757-300

100%. Like I mentioned before, can’t wait to see a 77W or 789 roll out.

Max Q · Wed May 01, 2019 2:09 am

Time for UA to admit they made a mistake
and go back to the drawing board

Yonderlust · Wed May 01, 2019 7:12 am

Max Q wrote:
Time for UA to admit they made a mistake
and go back to the drawing board

Yes! And hire an outside artist and forget the design committees of corporate departments. An artist should have the sole vision for the logo & livery. Corporate marketers can then take that and run with it for print and tv. I know a few people get their knickers ruffled by this suggestion but many of the great logos were solo artist designs. Corporate marketers are good at other things (for example, Delta's tv commercials a few years ago were stunning, fresh, cinematic and successful...those ads turned public sentiment around hugely. Remember, Delta had a fairly poor public perception about ten years ago.)

Volaris320 · Wed May 01, 2019 7:15 am

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairl ... d=00013783

I did a concept livery back in 2010 for the post-merger United. What I did was incorporate elements of Continental and United but mostly the latter. The only "Continental-esque" aspects were a solid light blue cheat-line and the same light-blue stripe on the bottom of the winglets, and part of the horizontal stabilizer is white. All other elements are United (blue belly, blue engines, kept the tulip logo and pentagram branding, but notice I made the tulip smaller on the tail). In the photo in the link is my concept post-merger livery on a Boeing 737-900ER.

VC10er · Wed May 01, 2019 1:56 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
As I said earlier, I don't love it, I don't hate it. I do think that some of the artwork shown here in this thread is more appealing than the design that United ultimately chose, Carbon Fibre's in particular.

That always amazes me - that companies spend big dollars paying a design company to come up with a new scheme or branding and then they don't knock it out of the park. Okay is apparently good enough.

I have a question and an insider’s factual truth to let you in on, both being in good spirit and respectful.

First: how much is “big dollars” to you? As in how much a branding and design agency is paid? Feel free to provide a range like $700,000 to $1.5 million, (or less or more) etc. And, in particular, how much of that total sum is JUST for the design of the livery alone?

David Ogilvy, of “Ogilvy & Mather” (David O, being one of the advertising world’s most famous and respected people) has one quote that is hugely famous, something he said MANY decades ago, but 100% still relevant today: “A client gets what they deserve” - meaning that no matter how fabulous the work an agency can do for their clients (ideas, ads, branding design, websites-anything) that in the end, what actually makes its way out into the world is absolutely due to what the client has approved.
Forget the new UA livery for a moment. If I see a package design that is magnificent, bold, beautiful and daring, or a logo for a company (either a redesign or new company) that blows my mind because it’s so brilliant- I will give the client MUCH more credit for it than I do the agency that did the work. Far more times than not, the agency presented better ideas and work, but the client teams, over a period of time will demand that changes are made “make this line darker, make the brand name bigger, I don’t like that pattern behind the logo, put a baby in the ad, remove the sculpted bulkhead that’s on the 77W, “Apple” is such a stupid name for a computer- are you crazy, how could you even show me that? this is technology, I want a name like ‘NovoTek” because it says both “new and technology” then it (the ad, the design etc) might go into consumer research! And 15 people out of 36 might say “I hate the purple bottle, nothing is purple in the vitamin aisle!”—but perhaps the purple is EXACTLY what is needed because it looks different than all the others.

Airline livery designs a very seldom researched because of the risk associated with a leak.

SO, how do you know if the new UNITED livery is a version of something you would have loved much more, that a very talented agency did awesome work, but it was then diluted with many opinions- but the client loves it, thinks the agency was fantastic and the new livery you see today was ultimately APPROVED by the client. They (UA) got what they deserved, a livery that most people seem to think (on balance) is an improvement. And Oscar tried to control expectations from the start by stating quite loudly “EVOLUTION” not “revolution”. (I would say Iberia made a revolutionary change) I don’t really like it, but aside from red and yellow- everything from the OLD Landor Iberia was changed. FedEx from its original Federal Express slanted identity was fairly revolutionary.

How much do you think Landor should have been paid to recreate the FedEx brand & Branding?

B764er · Wed May 01, 2019 2:09 pm

Anybody knows which planes will get the new livery next? Are they being painted as we speak?

FlyHossD · Wed May 01, 2019 2:26 pm

B764er wrote:
Anybody knows which planes will get the new livery next? Are they being painted as we speak?

What I've heard from my sources at UA is that due to the 737-Max9 groundings, the paint schedule is vacant for the moment. What would otherwise be spare aircraft are instead flying to cover for the grounded Max's. So it seems that 738 #3267 will be an only child for a while.

FlyHossD · Wed May 01, 2019 2:29 pm

VC10er wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
As I said earlier, I don't love it, I don't hate it. I do think that some of the artwork shown here in this thread is more appealing than the design that United ultimately chose, Carbon Fibre's in particular.

That always amazes me - that companies spend big dollars paying a design company to come up with a new scheme or branding and then they don't knock it out of the park. Okay is apparently good enough...

...How much do you think Landor should have been paid to recreate the FedEx brand & Branding?

Thanks for your comments on branding in this thread - it's been educational.

PlanesNTrains · Wed May 01, 2019 2:47 pm

VC10er wrote:
SO, how do you know if the new UNITED livery is a version of something you would have loved much more, that a very talented agency did awesome work, but it was then diluted with many opinions- but the client loves it, thinks the agency was fantastic and the new livery you see today was ultimately APPROVED by the client. They (UA) got what they deserved, a livery that most people seem to think (on balance) is an improvement. And Oscar tried to control expectations from the start by stating quite loudly “EVOLUTION” not “revolution”. (I would say Iberia made a revolutionary change) I don’t really like it, but aside from red and yellow- everything from the OLD Landor Iberia was changed. FedEx from its original Federal Express slanted identity was fairly revolutionary.

How much do you think Landor should have been paid to recreate the FedEx brand & Branding?

Sounds like an episode of Bewitched lol But ya, I think that probably describes exactly how it goes. The CEO knows best, right? That's why they spent millions hiring someone - so they can tell them they are wrong. CEO's are funny that way. We are here on a.net as well. How many times do we say "My five year old could have designed a better livery than that"? I think it'd be a thankless job at times.

FWIW, I believe that BNSF Railway spent (IINM) $40M on their rebranding - and they basically stole the Powerbar logo. It ain't cheap.

mm320cap · Wed May 01, 2019 3:00 pm

adambrau wrote:
VC10er wrote:
adambrau wrote:

Either of these would have been so much better - nice work! I think the swoosh and the billboard 'United' and the tail globe are all individually fine elements. But together they're disconnected and a mess - it screams LCC which is not to diss LCC's, but more to the point that UA is not branding itself as an LCC. Disappointing!

IMHO: This is by far the BEST version of the best U N I T E D branding. Sadly, it would have never been approved as it would be TOO MUCH like "Shades of Blue" and viewed as a step backwards. Although, I'd argue that VERY, VERY FEW of the general flying population would have realized it, because MOSTLY people don't really notice such things (Ex: how much of the Gen Pop is like us?),
Also, "Shades of Blue" was actually never painted fleet wide, nor around long enough, and gone for enough years that recall from the average person would be very, very low.

This livery, it is SOOOO U N I T E D, but with a more refined look that would work much harder to bolster UA's new goal of being the most premium focused airline (at least from PE up to Polaris, lol)
Who ever created this livery... want to work with my agency?

Yeah agree the above is my wet dream. Could have been worse, which though is never a huge endorsement

Anecdotally on the Airtrain today from Newark Airport rail station over to the terminals, I spoke with a UA pilot and ground staffer about the new logo. No-one is right or wrong, but these troops felt the current livery was better and the "evolution" was 'politely' a PR exercise from the Willis Tower executed "by committee" - ie why bother make something OK even worse. True that United will always suffer mistrust between the ranks and management but this is a lost opportunity to create a refreshed brand image. United - too big and too many heads! Life goes on.

I’m a United pilot and I absolutely love the new livery. To me it looks modern and fresh. The swoop to me is key. I can’t think of another US airline that has it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the constant cry here seems to be that it appears “LCC”. Ummmm. Sprint yellow, anyone?? Frontier animal crackers?? The new livery looks great to me considering that this was supposed to be a design EVOLUTION, not an entirely new branding.

I’ve been flying here for 25 years so trust me I’ve seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I haven’t felt momentum this positive here since the late 1990’s. I credit Oscar for a large part of that.

DenverTed · Wed May 01, 2019 3:35 pm

As to the specifics of the oscillating wave cheatline, I like it best centered on the nose at the start and ending centered on the tailcone. How much amplitude is another aesthetic choice. I like the title centered on the crest of the first curve. The choice of United to line it up with the leading edge and trailing edge of the wing is another choice. It's cool because it kind of lines up with the airflow, which I assume is the underlying theme of the wave. That said, the cheatline being narrow, and the wing being thicker, I could see a little experimentation or refinement on this concept to get a better look.

jworks158 · Wed May 01, 2019 4:17 pm

DenverTed wrote:
As to the specifics of the oscillating wave cheatline, I like it best centered on the nose at the start.

Agreed, which is why I never liked the swoop on the 737 MAX. It just looks cheesy at best with the pointy nature of the 737.

BigPlaneGuy13 · Wed May 01, 2019 4:57 pm

mm320cap wrote:
I’m a United pilot and I absolutely love the new livery. To me it looks modern and fresh. The swoop to me is key. I can’t think of another US airline that has it.

I can't be the only one that thinks the swoop looks like the one from WN's old Canyon Blue livery.

dc10lover · Wed May 01, 2019 5:16 pm

Honestly, I miss the "Tulip" United Airlines - 1980's livery. But I also miss the Delta "Widget". Man, I miss the airlines of the past. #BringBackTheTulip

dc10lover · Wed May 01, 2019 5:21 pm

#BringBackTheTulip

https://twitter.com/hashtag/BringBackTh ... htag_click

adambrau · Thu May 02, 2019 2:43 am

mm320cap wrote:
adambrau wrote:
VC10er wrote:

IMHO: This is by far the BEST version of the best U N I T E D branding. Sadly, it would have never been approved as it would be TOO MUCH like "Shades of Blue" and viewed as a step backwards. Although, I'd argue that VERY, VERY FEW of the general flying population would have realized it, because MOSTLY people don't really notice such things (Ex: how much of the Gen Pop is like us?),
Also, "Shades of Blue" was actually never painted fleet wide, nor around long enough, and gone for enough years that recall from the average person would be very, very low.

This livery, it is SOOOO U N I T E D, but with a more refined look that would work much harder to bolster UA's new goal of being the most premium focused airline (at least from PE up to Polaris, lol)
Who ever created this livery... want to work with my agency?

Yeah agree the above is my wet dream. Could have been worse, which though is never a huge endorsement

Anecdotally on the Airtrain today from Newark Airport rail station over to the terminals, I spoke with a UA pilot and ground staffer about the new logo. No-one is right or wrong, but these troops felt the current livery was better and the "evolution" was 'politely' a PR exercise from the Willis Tower executed "by committee" - ie why bother make something OK even worse. True that United will always suffer mistrust between the ranks and management but this is a lost opportunity to create a refreshed brand image. United - too big and too many heads! Life goes on.

I’m a United pilot and I absolutely love the new livery. To me it looks modern and fresh. The swoop to me is key. I can’t think of another US airline that has it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the constant cry here seems to be that it appears “LCC”. Ummmm. Sprint yellow, anyone?? Frontier animal crackers?? The new livery looks great to me considering that this was supposed to be a design EVOLUTION, not an entirely new branding.

I’ve been flying here for 25 years so trust me I’ve seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I haven’t felt momentum this positive here since the late 1990’s. I credit Oscar for a large part of that.

All I can say is it very refreshing to hear a positive view. And all our views are subjective. I've been flying UA for 28 years with the last several as a GS member. Does it mean your opinion trumps mine or vice versa - I don't think anyone can answer that. I respect your opinion. And I respect mine. Which is that the new livery evolution is poorly executed. At least we live in a society where we can openly disagree

rta · Thu May 02, 2019 3:13 am

FlyHossD wrote:
B764er wrote:
Anybody knows which planes will get the new livery next? Are they being painted as we speak?

What I've heard from my sources at UA is that due to the 737-Max9 groundings, the paint schedule is vacant for the moment. What would otherwise be spare aircraft are instead flying to cover for the grounded Max's. So it seems that 738 #3267 will be an only child for a while.

Does anyone know how they're planning repaints? Will the 737 MAX be painted last since they have relatively new paint?

VC10er · Fri May 03, 2019 8:10 pm

In my personal OPINION!!!

There is only one thing about the new livery and it’s not about this or that element, color, placement. It is the OVERALL image take away, and of the easiest kind to design to do. “We all know upscale when we see it”- Level of premiumness!

I just had the good fortune of flying First Class in seat 1A of a refurbished, used A320 (astonishing legroom!) Despite the fact that a galley is by nature an eyesore, the brand new BULKHEAD design is classy, tailored and crisp. The large dark blue band with the brighter color tiny triangles give the dark blue some depth (Eg: not flat blah blue), the silver panel across the top looks like real silver silk, and the bottom panel in a dark taupe is recessive as it ought to be, along with the magazine pocket.
The NEW First Class seat is a beautiful piece of industrial design. The simple horizontal lines on dark blue high quality leather (at least to the touch), wide dark blue arms and the FLAWLESSLY designed “power + storage” is such a simple great solution, a mini granite cocktail table (too bad the double layer sliding feature didn’t work out (why???) and the ever so small simple UNITED/Globe tag. CRISP new zig zag carpet.

Surrounded by new white walls, simple light silver dot pattern, and new bins. Finished off with a “United First” engraved plaque.

In a word: C L A S S Y

That “Brooks Brothers” interior does not fit inside the new livery- again, I don’t hate it, I just think “evolutionary” is a poor excuse for what could have been another crisp, classy livery. A missed opportunity.

Lots of folks (A LOT) said they had low expectations anyway. Frankly, they should not have had low expectations, Polaris Lounges? Gate seating and those new rectangular tower & power lights, GS reception, the new United Clubs, beautiful seating, with those amazing large round ceiling lights like an engine intake overhead- aircraft window bathroom mirrors- vintage image wall treatments. So much attention to detail!!!

(Although the new livery it doesn’t look bad ‘in flight’ on the website, with the benefit of well done photoshop even I’d look good!)

777222LR · Fri May 03, 2019 10:06 pm

I'm certainly on board with it here. It's warming on me:

VC10er · Fri May 03, 2019 10:24 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
As I said earlier, I don't love it, I don't hate it. I do think that some of the artwork shown here in this thread is more appealing than the design that United ultimately chose, Carbon Fibre's in particular.

That always amazes me - that companies spend big dollars paying a design company to come up with a new scheme or branding and then they don't knock it out of the park. Okay is apparently good enough...

...How much do you think Landor should have been paid to recreate the FedEx brand & Branding?

Thanks for your comments on branding in this thread - it's been educational.

Thanks for the nice words!
I am actually dying to hear what folks think a branding agency is paid to create a seriously significant branding change- for example: the old Cathay green with orange/red to the brush-wing, or even something like Etihad, or something refreshed, Delta or AA, now UA from a large global branding and design agency, or a smaller agency, and of the grand total in FEES, to the agency how much of that total is just for the livery / identity design?

N766UA · Fri May 03, 2019 11:05 pm

777222LR wrote:
I'm certainly on board with it here. It's warming on me:

Yeah, that looks sharp in the sunlight, especially the giant globe! Definitely an improvement and much less a of a Continental vibe.

sspontak · Fri May 03, 2019 11:30 pm

This latest photos shows off the new livery very well. It is a nice shade of blue and the new globe color on the tail looks great. I look forward to seeing the new livery in person.

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