fabian9
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:57 am

SierraPacific wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
When I was aboard a cruise ship as a passenger taking a bridge tour, an ear-splitting alarm went off. A crewman went running to respond to it. When we asked what that was all about, the first officer explained: "That goes off every fifteen minutes and its purpose is to ensure that we are all alive up here. If we don't shut it off within 30 seconds, the captain will be summoned and come running up."

Do airplanes have a similar system? I know it's not the total solution, but I figured this was a good place to ask.


The bigger Boeing aircraft do (747 and 777). I do not think the 737 does but there are other tasks in the 737 that have to be accomplished in cruise that negates the need for it. I do not believe Airbus aircraft have a crew alertness monitor.


Not an automated system, but I believe cabin crew check in with cockpit at least every 30 minutes? If they don’t respond, cabin crew can enter the cockpit (if no response to cockpit door “bell”)
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:33 am

fabian9 wrote:

Not an automated system, but I believe cabin crew check in with cockpit at least every 30 minutes? If they don’t respond, cabin crew can enter the cockpit (if no response to cockpit door “bell”)

Never heard of that. Maybe on some of those EK longhaul flights with tired skeleton crews? :duck:

This thread can only be summarized as a rabbit hole of unfounded assumptions. Maybe we should rephrase the discussion as "what do pilots do in cruise when workload is lower? " or "how does automation in the E170/190 ease pilot workload compared to other jets?".

First, pilots mostly pass the time visiting with each other. Imagine you're going on a road trip with someone from your work... you're going to make small talk at a minimum. It's different in nature than sitting by someone in the PAX cabin. Outside of that, you'll probably do light work tasks like radio comms, review arrival charts, monitor progress, check destination gate status and weather, etc. That only takes up so much time. On turbulent days or in convective weather you'll be quite busy plotting the best course and altitude. When your conversations run dry, the weather is nice, and you've got hours to go, now what? The FAA obviously cannot condone anything but a fixed stare at unchanging dials or reading manuals. I wouldn't recommend that on a transcon redeye. Realistically, it's on you to keep yourself alert without becoming distracted by your time killing activity. Read, do a puzzle, look out the window, eat a meal, ponder the meaning of existence, try not to wake up the CA, etc. :shhh: :wink2:

Second, the E175 is a pilot friendly plane. Is it a boring plane to fly? No. What makes a flight boring is more a matter of who you are flying with. From a cruise flight perspective, there's few differences to a Boeing or Airbus. It automatically determines and selects your speeds, and maintains them with auto thrust. Your flight path is visually displayed laterally and vertically, and the autopilot can be armed to auto start the descent at the proper point. All navigation frequencies are auto tuned, including your landing runway ILS. The cabin pressure is all auto, the cabin temp is controlled by FAs, and any abnormality will be annunciated to you. Your wx radar antenna will auto adjust tilt and gain with altitude. All your ETAs and fuel predictions are in view.
 
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intrance
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:53 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Commonly thought and invariably done, but the wording is “should be engaged” not “shall be engaged”.

That's the wording in authorities documents, your OM-A might say differently. Ours does actually say "shall be engaged" and I had read over that, and went with the "should" version from authorities. Resulted in an email from flight safety department checking the flight data monitoring, asking if there was any specific reason why the autopilot was not engaged in RVSM... Apparently "because I wanted to fly the plane" was not a satisfactory answer :roll: :lol: .

747Whale wrote:
Three hours is a "long flight?"

This is the state of the millennial mind.

I submit that those who find themselves bored in flight have themselves to blame, and perhaps ought not be claiming the title of pilot. Those who sit through a flight without anything to do are passengers, save that most passengers are far better at occupying their time.

There is plenty to do in flight; those claiming to be bored are too lazy and unprofessional to do it.

Judgy much? A three hour direct flight (as in getting a direct from 2000ft climbing out to a point already on the arrival) with another pilot who is the quiet type, and no significant weather or ATC to worry about can be quite boring indeed. Blue skies and looking down on overcast clouds does get old at some point. So does reading the company manuals.

Give us a nice list of what to do on such a flight in your expert opinion. You say there is, but give no examples.
 
DartHerald
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:40 am

Not an automated system, but I believe cabin crew check in with cockpit at least every 30 minutes? If they don’t respond, cabin crew can enter the cockpit (if no response to cockpit door “bell”)


How does that work in these days of cockpit security? After 9/11 I thought the pilots were supposed to be inaccessible to hijackers? Giving a key to one of the cabin crew leaves them vulnerable.
 
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Vio
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:53 am

LeoNYC wrote:
Speaking of Embraer 175, I think these are the best videos on YouTube illustrating how this pilot operates this plane from JustPlanes - all by Captain Lewis from Air Canada Express (Sky Regional):

https://youtu.be/P17azgU0j1g?t=104
https://youtu.be/j8VXO-wnDsI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMdxD8WfTbE


That's not Air Canada Express. That's actually Air Canada "Mainline". The E175 were owned by AC before the creation of Sky Regional.
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jfklganyc
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:38 pm

OSL777FLYER wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
When I was aboard a cruise ship as a passenger taking a bridge tour, an ear-splitting alarm went off. A crewman went running to respond to it. When we asked what that was all about, the first officer explained: "That goes off every fifteen minutes and its purpose is to ensure that we are all alive up here. If we don't shut it off within 30 seconds, the captain will be summoned and come running up."

Do airplanes have a similar system? I know it's not the total solution, but I figured this was a good place to ask.


I was on a Lufthansa B747-400 2 months ago during a night flight. I was chatting to the purser and he told me that every 20 minutes on night flights, they call the cockpit to see if everything is OK and if they need anything.

Pretty nice way of doing things I would say.



It is mandatory at some airlines
 
tallis
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:51 pm

DartHerald wrote:
Not an automated system, but I believe cabin crew check in with cockpit at least every 30 minutes? If they don’t respond, cabin crew can enter the cockpit (if no response to cockpit door “bell”)


How does that work in these days of cockpit security? After 9/11 I thought the pilots were supposed to be inaccessible to hijackers? Giving a key to one of the cabin crew leaves them vulnerable.


At my carrier this is SOP and the 30 minute call is just as much us finding out that all is well in the cabin as the other way round.

In practice though it’s actually quite rare to get a 30 minute call as you’ll almost always see each other more often than that anyway - refreshments, meals, bathroom breaks etc etc.

With security in mind I don’t think it’s wise to fully answer your question DartHerald but suffice to say it’s perfectly secure!
 
prestwick
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:30 pm

Monty Python Airways figured this one out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh_shsRfXqk
 
FlyHappy
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:05 pm

The article being cited is written in the first person by the actual ERJ pilot. So this talk of shoddy journalism, etc is pretty weak.
Disagree with the opinion, but it seems legitimate. The pilot isn't comparing the 175 to other types, its a broad musing.

jfklganyc wrote:
Guys usually read the newspaper or a book during the slow times. That’s fine.


Not at the authors airline. non-company material verboten.

jfklganyc wrote:
The newest problem is the phone and inflight internet. Big problem because it never goes away.


Neither a solution nor problem on an E175, right?

jfklganyc wrote:

Honestly, most of us are making between two and three dollars a minute to sit there.

Being bored at altitude is very lucrative. Deal with it.


money doesn't invalidate one's humanity. I couldn't stay awake for 5 days for the promise of a billion dollars.
I thought the article was well-written. The banning of personal books in the cockpit is a terrible policy it seems to me.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:06 pm

mcg wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
When I was aboard a cruise ship as a passenger taking a bridge tour, an ear-splitting alarm went off. A crewman went running to respond to it. When we asked what that was all about, the first officer explained: "That goes off every fifteen minutes and its purpose is to ensure that we are all alive up here. If we don't shut it off within 30 seconds, the captain will be summoned and come running up."

Do airplanes have a similar system? I know it's not the total solution, but I figured this was a good place to ask.


I believe trains have similar systems.


Thats true. I am a train engineer in Germany. We have a system called "SiFa" which means "Sicherheits Fahrschaltung". You have a pedal that you have to press down all the time. When you release it, the train will automatically brake to a complete stop after some visual and then aural warnings. Additionaly you have to release the pedal every 30 seconds maximum for a short moment, otherwise the train will also stop.
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SuseJ772
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:56 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Guys usually read the newspaper or a book during the slow times. That’s fine.


Not at the authors airline. non-company material verboten.

I think this is the real issue. It seems some (most?) airlines let you do non-flying things during cruise where as his does not. I could see not being allowed to do anything else providing a lot of bordem.
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ltbewr
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:08 pm

There is no doubt that in any vehicle, as noted in previous posts, the operator can get very bored, get easily distracted, even nod off into sleep with possibly horrible consequences. Sometimes the boredom can be due to lack of or poor sleep, a medical condition like sleep apnea or diabetes. The operator must be 99% alert in case things go wrong and need manual correction during 'boring' periods like with AF 447. Many aircraft have some system to detect inattention or demand it. Some cars (including some Subaru models in the USA) now use camera systems to see if a driver is nodding off or distracted and some with automated systems use sensors on the steering wheel to determine if the driver is alert. Perhaps more advanced systems like I just noted need to be put into place on newer aircraft to limit the 'boredom' affect.
 
LeoNYC
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:08 pm

Vio wrote:
LeoNYC wrote:
Speaking of Embraer 175, I think these are the best videos on YouTube illustrating how this pilot operates this plane from JustPlanes - all by Captain Lewis from Air Canada Express (Sky Regional):

https://youtu.be/P17azgU0j1g?t=104
https://youtu.be/j8VXO-wnDsI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMdxD8WfTbE


That's not Air Canada Express. That's actually Air Canada "Mainline". The E175 were owned by AC before the creation of Sky Regional.
You are 100% correct about the 1st video made in 2011. But you are wrong about the later videos made in 2017 or so :) But I stand corrected.
 
LeoNYC
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:13 pm

Avgeek21 wrote:
....And yes you will get bored. But that’s life. Talk to eachother, read a book or go stretch your legs in the galley and talk to someone else. Or take some controlled rest and sleep for 20 min.
It is my understanding that many airlines, at least in the US, prohibit reading anything that is not airline/pilot related during the flight. Perhaps it's different at your airline and you can just read anything you desire?

Regarding "controlled rest", I assume you can only do it if there is a spare pilot (FO or Captain) in the back that replace you for those 20 min in the cockpit, correct? Or would you sleep in the cockpit leaving all the controls to 1 person? I thought that was a No-No, especially after the Germanwings disaster.
 
LeoNYC
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:16 pm

ltbewr wrote:
There is no doubt that in any vehicle, as noted in previous posts, the operator can get very bored, get easily distracted, even nod off into sleep with possibly horrible consequences. ...
True, it's just that I thought (and I am not a pilot or professional) that during such relatively short flights there is a lot of communication back and forth with the airline traffic controllers, some controller's messages they would listen to, some minor adjustment of the course/plan depending on the weather patterns, etc. Did not realize it was so automated and planned that pilot basically has practically nothing to do during the cruise. When I am cruising in my car - even though I don't need to deal with clouds, weather patterns and air traffic controllers, I still have to pay attention.
 
LeoNYC
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:18 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
...
Guys usually read the newspaper or a book during the slow times. That’s fine....
The point is that this is not prohibited on many major US airlines. Maybe some pilots do it anyway, but many majors prohibit reading any materials not related to the airline/flying.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:45 pm

LeoNYC wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
....And yes you will get bored. But that’s life. Talk to eachother, read a book or go stretch your legs in the galley and t

alk to someone else. Or take some controlled rest and sleep for 20 min.
It is my understanding that many airlines, at least in the US, prohibit reading anything that is not airline/pilot related during the flight. Perhaps it's different at your airline and you can just read anything you desire?

Regarding "controlled rest", I assume you can only do it if there is a spare pilot (FO or Captain) in the back that replace you for those 20 min in the cockpit, correct? Or would you sleep in the cockpit leaving all the controls to 1 person? I thought that was a No-No, especially after the Germanwings disaster.


Officially we cannot read anything that is 'non-company provided'. But I personally allow a book. With controlled rest we can rest for max 40 minutes and leave the other pilot in command. No additional crew is onboard nor needed. There is a whole raft of rules you'd have to adhere to with cabin crew calling every 20 minutes etc etc.
 
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conaly
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:29 am

AirKevin wrote:
conaly wrote:
Not sure how you could handle this in an airplane. I've read of systems like this in Long range aircraft, but never seen any videos or recordings of it. On the other hand: most times you have at least two people in the cockpit, so I believe this could be enough. What you do against boredom should be up to you. I believe pilots do talk a lot with each other, including small talk.

Like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_llyS20J0Ac&t=4m29s


Interesting, thanks for sharing!
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wing
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:10 am

If you are loving it,it never gets boring.
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Heinkel
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:20 am

DartHerald wrote:

How does that work in these days of cockpit security? After 9/11 I thought the pilots were supposed to be inaccessible to hijackers? Giving a key to one of the cabin crew leaves them vulnerable.


That kind of "cockpit security" and inaccessible cockpit doors made flying more unsafe. 149 people on Germanwings flight 9525 had to learn this the hard way.
 
highflier92660
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:57 pm

It's a fascinating article from Flying magazine contributor Sam Weigel. For Republic (Brickyard) Airlines, a three-hour DFW-LGA segment in a E175 is their equivalent of flying Dallas to Sydney. And as anyone who has flown for a regional carrier can attest, that is an eternity in cruise flight. Weigel's syntax and writing style suggest he is more heavily influence by aviation authors like Ernest Kellogg Gann that Richard Collins. Aviation journalists are a notoriously dry and scientific bunch so we could us a few more like him.
 
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SamYeager2016
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:19 pm

YYZatcboy wrote:
Its a pity that I seem to be the only one here who bothered to read it.

Although it doesn't detract too much from the article it may be worth pointing out that it was published nearly six years ago.
 
speedbird52
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:36 pm

On one hand I am glad automation has made flying so much safer. On the other hand: It is a shame that flying has lost a bit of the adventure it used to have, and it no longer keeps you in the loop. Personally, when I get my Instrument rating, I feel that I will only keep the GPS as a safety measure to ensure I am not getting lost, and just navigate using VOR-VOR. Who knows, maybe when I actually start flying I too will become a child of the magenta line
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:00 pm

Heinkel wrote:
DartHerald wrote:

How does that work in these days of cockpit security? After 9/11 I thought the pilots were supposed to be inaccessible to hijackers? Giving a key to one of the cabin crew leaves them vulnerable.


That kind of "cockpit security" and inaccessible cockpit doors made flying more unsafe. 149 people on Germanwings flight 9525 had to learn this the hard way.


No it didn't. That's sensationalist. There is a much bigger threat from the cabin than from a cockpit crewmember. Hijackings and attempted hijackings are very rare to begin with, but the threat is overwhelmingly from the passenger cabin.
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reltney
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:30 am

SierraPacific wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
When I was aboard a cruise ship as a passenger taking a bridge tour, an ear-splitting alarm went off. A crewman went running to respond to it. When we asked what that was all about, the first officer explained: "That goes off every fifteen minutes and its purpose is to ensure that we are all alive up here. If we don't shut it off within 30 seconds, the captain will be summoned and come running up."

Do airplanes have a similar system? I know it's not the total solution, but I figured this was a good place to ask.



The bigger Boeing aircraft do (747 and 777). I do not think the 737 does but there are other tasks in the 737 that have to be accomplished in cruise that negates the need for it. I do not believe Airbus aircraft have a crew alertness monitor.


Not the 747-400 I flew. I bet it’s just a softwear thing you could get and some airlines did but we did not have it.

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Flyer732
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:06 am

speedbird52 wrote:
On one hand I am glad automation has made flying so much safer. On the other hand: It is a shame that flying has lost a bit of the adventure it used to have, and it no longer keeps you in the loop. Personally, when I get my Instrument rating, I feel that I will only keep the GPS as a safety measure to ensure I am not getting lost, and just navigate using VOR-VOR. Who knows, maybe when I actually start flying I too will become a child of the magenta line


That'll get harder and harder to do, as many VORs are starting to be decommissioned, primarily in the US, but I've heard about Europe doing it soon too. The cost of maintaining them is getting more and more expensive, when navigation can be done with satellites. Some of the routes I've flown recently haven't included a single VOR on the flight plan, all GPS intersections.
 
YRA
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:31 am

I’m truly curious for the US pilots to give more color on what they do during those long transcons, red eyes, and such. Sounds like no books or newspapers, but I can’t believe that the hundreds/thousands of pilots doing this each day don’t bring a paperback with them or have a kindle or a crossword puzzle. Anyone willing to admit if they have been reprimanded or gotten “caught” recently using such materials?
 
LeoNYC
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:14 am

Avgeek21 wrote:
...With controlled rest we can rest for max 40 minutes and leave the other pilot in command. No additional crew is onboard nor needed. There is a whole raft of rules you'd have to adhere to with cabin crew calling every 20 minutes etc etc.
I think this is seriously dangerous. I am not a pilot, but I work in IT. Any time you have a critical process or task you must insure a backup or redundancy. Germanwings incident is just one example when both pilots need to be there. But one pilot can get sick, sleepy, food poisoned, etc. Bad practice, I think, to leave just one person in the cockpit.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:24 am

LeoNYC wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
...With controlled rest we can rest for max 40 minutes and leave the other pilot in command. No additional crew is onboard nor needed. There is a whole raft of rules you'd have to adhere to with cabin crew calling every 20 minutes etc etc.
I think this is seriously dangerous. I am not a pilot, but I work in IT. Any time you have a critical process or task you must insure a backup or redundancy. Germanwings incident is just one example when both pilots need to be there. But one pilot can get sick, sleepy, food poisoned, etc. Bad practice, I think, to leave just one person in the cockpit.


I disagree. Statistics have shown it's no issue at all. Like I said earlier, there are quite a few conditions that need to be met in order to do this.
 
LeoNYC
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:25 am

Avgeek21 wrote:
... But I personally allow a book. With controlled rest we can rest for max 40 minutes and leave the other pilot in command. No additional crew is onboard nor needed. There is a whole raft of rules you'd have to adhere to with cabin crew calling every 20 minutes etc etc.
In this post you admitted to violating your company regulation (that can literally get you fired, especially if you work for a main US airline) and FAA (or EASA) regulations that 2 pilots have to be in the cockpit at all times, which has been in place, I believe since 2015 because of the GermanWings disaster. That is if you fly for the US or European carrier. BAD!
 
Flyer732
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:49 am

LeoNYC wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
... But I personally allow a book. With controlled rest we can rest for max 40 minutes and leave the other pilot in command. No additional crew is onboard nor needed. There is a whole raft of rules you'd have to adhere to with cabin crew calling every 20 minutes etc etc.
In this post you admitted to violating your company regulation (that can literally get you fired, especially if you work for a main US airline) and FAA (or EASA) regulations that 2 pilots have to be in the cockpit at all times, which has been in place, I believe since 2015 because of the GermanWings disaster. That is if you fly for the US or European carrier. BAD!



I've never seen that regulation, what if there are two pilots and one has to use the toilet?
 
speedbird52
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:01 am

Flyer732 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
On one hand I am glad automation has made flying so much safer. On the other hand: It is a shame that flying has lost a bit of the adventure it used to have, and it no longer keeps you in the loop. Personally, when I get my Instrument rating, I feel that I will only keep the GPS as a safety measure to ensure I am not getting lost, and just navigate using VOR-VOR. Who knows, maybe when I actually start flying I too will become a child of the magenta line


That'll get harder and harder to do, as many VORs are starting to be decommissioned, primarily in the US, but I've heard about Europe doing it soon too. The cost of maintaining them is getting more and more expensive, when navigation can be done with satellites. Some of the routes I've flown recently haven't included a single VOR on the flight plan, all GPS intersections.

I suppose I will enjoy it while I have the chance!
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:04 am

LeoNYC wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
... But I personally allow a book. With controlled rest we can rest for max 40 minutes and leave the other pilot in command. No additional crew is onboard nor needed. There is a whole raft of rules you'd have to adhere to with cabin crew calling every 20 minutes etc etc.
In this post you admitted to violating your company regulation (that can literally get you fired, especially if you work for a main US airline) and FAA (or EASA) regulations that 2 pilots have to be in the cockpit at all times, which has been in place, I believe since 2015 because of the GermanWings disaster. That is if you fly for the US or European carrier. BAD!


Hi Leo,

I don't think you have an accurate picture of what controlled rest actually looks like. The pilot taking rest remains in their seat in the flight deck during the rest period, and there are controls where the FAs have to call regularly to make sure the other pilot is awake and OK. Once the resting pilot wakes up they have to allow a set period of time to reduce any sleep lag before returning to duty. Further most airlines no longer require a second person in the flight deck during bio breaks. That ended over a year ago here.
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remingtonbox
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:21 am

If anyone would actually read the article, the quote the OP provided is taken incredibly out of context. It's an excellent article about a few days in the life of a regional pilot grappling with his decision.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:35 am

LeoNYC wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
... But I personally allow a book. With controlled rest we can rest for max 40 minutes and leave the other pilot in command. No additional crew is onboard nor needed. There is a whole raft of rules you'd have to adhere to with cabin crew calling every 20 minutes etc etc.
In this post you admitted to violating your company regulation (that can literally get you fired, especially if you work for a main US airline) and FAA (or EASA) regulations that 2 pilots have to be in the cockpit at all times, which has been in place, I believe since 2015 because of the GermanWings disaster. That is if you fly for the US or European carrier. BAD!


You've got to apply common sense too. Yes it's technically a (very minor in my opinion) violation but you have to apply a bit of common sense at times You quickly know if the guy/girl you are flying with is on the ball or not. Sometimes the mind needs a break and people's mind 'wake up' and are sharper when reading a book for a little while. I see fewer missed ATC calls when the minds are active than when staring into oblivion and switched off. Seems an alian concept in aviation these days but many many moons ago we used common sense and it worked back then. Guess what?! It still works! (sarcasm)

You seem to have no concept of controlled rest. Like I said, there's a whole list of rules you'd have to adhere to when doing so. I can quickly count 16 bullet points in our manual. There are always two pilots in the flightdeck, don't worry. And during a toilet break always one pilot and one cabin crew. I'd rather have someone take controlled rest during cruise than fighting to stay awake during descent/approach. Cause that's when I need him/her the most.
 
Avgeek21
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:44 am

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:33 am

LeoNYC wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
... But I personally allow a book. With controlled rest we can rest for max 40 minutes and leave the other pilot in command. No additional crew is onboard nor needed. There is a whole raft of rules you'd have to adhere to with cabin crew calling every 20 minutes etc etc.
In this post you admitted to violating your company regulation (that can literally get you fired, especially if you work for a main US airline) and FAA (or EASA) regulations that 2 pilots have to be in the cockpit at all times, which has been in place, I believe since 2015 because of the GermanWings disaster. That is if you fly for the US or European carrier. BAD!


You've got to apply common sense too. Seems an alian concept in aviation these days but many many moons ago we used common sense and it worked back then. Guess what?! It still works! (sarcasm)

You seem to have no concept of controlled rest. Like I said, there's a whole list of rules you'd have to adhere to when doing so. I can quickly count 16 bullet points in our manual. There are always two pilots in the flightdeck, don't worry. And during a toilet break always one pilot and one cabin crew. I'd rather have someone take controlled rest during cruise than fighting to stay awake during descent/approach. Cause that's when I need him/her the most.
 
Eikie
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:15 pm

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:52 am

LeoNYC wrote:
Avgeek21 wrote:
... But I personally allow a book. With controlled rest we can rest for max 40 minutes and leave the other pilot in command. No additional crew is onboard nor needed. There is a whole raft of rules you'd have to adhere to with cabin crew calling every 20 minutes etc etc.
In this post you admitted to violating your company regulation (that can literally get you fired, especially if you work for a main US airline) and FAA (or EASA) regulations that 2 pilots have to be in the cockpit at all times, which has been in place, I believe since 2015 because of the GermanWings disaster. That is if you fly for the US or European carrier. BAD!

You might want to rethink your contribution, since it is utter bullocks.
The always-two-pilots-on-the-flightdeck rule has been abolished in the EU, it's up to the airlines. And most don't use it anymore as it actually reduced safety.
 
GmvAfcs
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:25 pm

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:34 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
NYPECO wrote:
Can they turn off the autopilot and hand fly if they get bored?


Naturally, but there is little reason to do so at Cruise Altitude. More likely is that a Pilot might decide to wait longer to engage Autopilot after takeoff.


Actually you can’t turn off autopilot above 29000 ft. You cannot fly in RVSM airspace without Autopilots.
 
KLDC10
Posts: 1407
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:02 pm

GmvAfcs wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
NYPECO wrote:
Can they turn off the autopilot and hand fly if they get bored?


Naturally, but there is little reason to do so at Cruise Altitude. More likely is that a Pilot might decide to wait longer to engage Autopilot after takeoff.


Actually you can’t turn off autopilot above 29000 ft. You cannot fly in RVSM airspace without Autopilots.


I'll refer you to the reply below. The poster asked whether it was possible, not whether it was SOP.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:

Naturally, but there is little reason to do so at Cruise Altitude. More likely is that a Pilot might decide to wait longer to engage Autopilot after takeoff.


Actually you can’t in RVSM airspeed. One requirement for RVSM is that the Autopilot is engaged.


Commonly thought and invariably done, but the wording is “should be engaged” not “shall be engaged”.

An automatic altitude-control system should be operative and engaged during level cruise, except when circumstances such as the need to re-trim the aircraft or turbulence require disengagement. In any event, adherence to cruise altitude should be done by reference to one of the two primary altimeters. Following loss of the automatic height-keeping function, any consequential restrictions will need to be observed.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
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Q400/E170/E175/E190/CS300
 
GmvAfcs
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:25 pm

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:15 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
GmvAfcs wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:

Naturally, but there is little reason to do so at Cruise Altitude. More likely is that a Pilot might decide to wait longer to engage Autopilot after takeoff.


Actually you can’t turn off autopilot above 29000 ft. You cannot fly in RVSM airspace without Autopilots.


I'll refer you to the reply below. The poster asked whether it was possible, not whether it was SOP.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Actually you can’t in RVSM airspeed. One requirement for RVSM is that the Autopilot is engaged.


Commonly thought and invariably done, but the wording is “should be engaged” not “shall be engaged”.

An automatic altitude-control system should be operative and engaged during level cruise, except when circumstances such as the need to re-trim the aircraft or turbulence require disengagement. In any event, adherence to cruise altitude should be done by reference to one of the two primary altimeters. Following loss of the automatic height-keeping function, any consequential restrictions will need to be observed.


Sorry! Missed that. That's the problem when checking the forum from mobile site.
 
spudsmac
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:36 pm

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:20 pm

One thing I think is funny that the FAA and US airlines do is to combat distractions and fatigue they ban non-company related reading material and ban controlled naps. Just ban fatigue and naps. Next thing you know we will eliminate murders and robberies by making a law against them.

FAA: I know how to prevent fatigue. Just ban pilots from taking naps. That will work.....yeah.....
Also FAA: I know how to keep pilots from being distracted. Make them read airline manuals or stare at the instruments on a 5 hour flight. That will work....Yeah....

In all reality the best way to pass time is normally to just talk to the other person. Unless that person is a dud then it usually makes the time pass pretty quickly, although there's usually much less conversation on day 4 than day 1 of the trip.
 
evank516
Posts: 1944
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:05 pm

Great time for the captain to go drop a deuce in the lav.
 
747Whale
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:41 pm

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:47 pm

intrance wrote:
Judgy much?


No.

Experienced.

intrance wrote:
A three hour direct flight (as in getting a direct from 2000ft climbing out to a point already on the arrival) with another pilot who is the quiet type, and no significant weather or ATC to worry about can be quite boring indeed.


Then you're doing it wrong.

This isn't a matter of boring. It's a matter of a weak pilot doing the bare minimum, or not doing his or her job.

Which one are you?

intrance wrote:

Give us a nice list of what to do on such a flight in your expert opinion. You say there is, but give no examples.


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1416711
 
silentbob
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:08 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Purposely fly into turbulence and that will spice things up.

I've flown with too many guys like that. "Don't deviate, penetrate"
 
User avatar
intrance
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: ERJ 175 Pilots bored out of their minds even on regional flights

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:23 am

747Whale wrote:
intrance wrote:
Judgy much?


No.

Experienced.

intrance wrote:
A three hour direct flight (as in getting a direct from 2000ft climbing out to a point already on the arrival) with another pilot who is the quiet type, and no significant weather or ATC to worry about can be quite boring indeed.


Then you're doing it wrong.

This isn't a matter of boring. It's a matter of a weak pilot doing the bare minimum, or not doing his or her job.


Like I said, judgy much :lol: . A lot of the stuff you describe in that linked topic takes mere seconds to perform or even a simple glance to the instruments in your scan. You manage to write out programming the FMS as some arduous task when the reality is much simpler, same for keeping track of your ETA's, fuel burn, system status etc. Hell, a bit of mental arithmetic can take care of ETA's changing or crossing waypoints at a designated time. And there is only so much one can learn from reading the company manuals for the umpteenth time.

Really, you wrote that long long post describing stuff to do that will take up only a fraction of the time enroute on even the shortest flights we do. You might be a bit out of touch with the different kinds of flying in the world... Or perhaps you are the weak pilot here, needing all that time for simple tasks.

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