pugman211
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:28 pm

The UK CAA has now grounded the MAX I have just seen on BBC news.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:29 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
So their reluctance to declare a full grounding of the 737MAX is quite understandable in my opinion, as they're trying to ascertain all the facts.


Do you believe they need all the facts before taking a precautionary measure?

So, lets say everything points to MCAS being the problem in both instances, do the FAA still wait till formal publication of their findings (which could be 6months away) before taking any precautionary measures?

The clue is in the word itself; precaution.


There's not really any evidence that the Lionair accident would have happened in the FAA regime. Any 121 carrier in the US would have grounded and fixed that airplane long before the accident flight. So at least on the current evidence, it's reasonable to say that FAA action beyond what they've done isn't necessary.
Last edited by Cubsrule on Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GCT64
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:30 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
It doesn't really matter what the facts are the Public Perception (is reality See: SW has the cheapest fares) liability can potentially cost an airline hundreds of millions in the sort term. Better to eat 20-50 million now which you may quickly regain with public goodwill. And heaven forbid another accident in the meantime and it could be disastrous for those operators still flying.


If you are an airline CEO who continues to fly the MAX and then you have a crash with it (for whatever reason), during the period everyone else has grounded their's, what will the news headlines be? will you survive in your job? will the airline even survive? even how will your children be treated at school? what will you say to your family?

There becomes a point where you have to make the decision to ground your MAXs irrespective of whether you believe they are safe. The choice is being taken out of your hands.
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edu2703
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:30 pm

The UK Civil Aviation Authority has issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:34 pm

edu2703 wrote:
The UK Civil Aviation Authority has issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace.


https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Boeing-737-MAX-Aircraft/

Currently 3 737MAXs in UK airspace, 2 from FI: BRU-KEF and LGW-KEF, one from TK is on the ground at LGW, taxying. TOM inbound from RAK-MAN hasn't reached UK airspace yet.
Last edited by GCT64 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Arion640
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:34 pm

pugman211 wrote:
The UK CAA has now grounded the MAX I have just seen on BBC news.


That will cause Norwegian a lot of hassle.

Air Canada were lucky to get their MAX out of Heathrow this morning. Turkish have a couple inbound to the UK - I’d of thought they’ll let TUI fly get theirs back to base though.
Last edited by Arion640 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ytz
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:35 pm

Aither wrote:
Let's get back to the basics:
- 2 crashes, 300 people died, probably due to the same problem on an aircraft according to officials.
- Problem recognized and to be solved in a few weeks
- In the meantime, don't worry and pray when you are onboard this aircraft that the pilots are super experienced just in case...

Seriously ? are they kidding ?

This also gives me a feeling, but I have no proof to demonstrate, that it would have been an Airbus or Bombardier or Embraer having the same problem the FAA would ground everything right away.


Also makes me wonder if the outcome would have been different if it was a larger aircraft or happened over a more urban area. It's sort of lucky (if you will) that both these crashes didn't happen in urban areas.

They grounded the 787 with no fatalities. Yet seem willing to roll the dice on the 737. In part, because I think they don't want to look bad. After all, it's the same outfit that certified the MAX.
 
LakerLiker
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:35 pm

How soon will the CAA ruling come in to force? I see a few currently heading towards the UK, is it a case of anything in the air gets to land and that's it until further notice?
 
caljn
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:37 pm

Is the Max 9 so different that it would assumed to be exempt from these bans?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:38 pm

ytz wrote:
After all, it's the same outfit that certified the MAX.


But only partially. Grandfathering and all that gave Boeing a shortcut through the certification process.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:39 pm

UK Bans 737 MAX 8s from UK airspace ...


Just in via Twitter :
@ReutersUK
7m7 minutes ago
JUST IN: UK Civil Aviation Authority has issued instructions to stop any Boeing 737 MAX 8 commercial passenger flights arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace

and BBC

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47536502
Last edited by ACCS300 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:40 pm

JoKeR wrote:
Oman the latest to ban the Max. Just reported by Reuters...

That's another 5 out of service.

UAE's GCAA has issued warning they will not be reluctant to ground the UAE-registered Boeing 737 Max fleet, if required, to ensure the highest standard of aviation safety is achieved.

Flydubai currently operates 11 Max 8 and 3 Max 9

https://www.apnews.com/94c19abef66d4a0e977a1286d779ba22
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eidvm
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:43 pm

IAA expected to follow suit and ground the 737 MAX in Irish Airspace, will have quite the impact for Norwegian and for any 737MAX operator flying transatlantic flights.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:43 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
They need SOME facts. In the case of ET302, they don't have any facts.


But they do have some facts.

Crashed shortly after takeoff and with evidence of significant deviations in vertical airspeed prior to incident. Those deviations largely echo those of the prior Lion Air crash.

To me, that is enough to take the precautionary measure of grounding until they can get the recorders deciphered and interpreted to the point of being able to state they are not the same problem. At which point grounding can be rescinded.

If they are the same root problem, then its obvious changes have to be made.
 
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cougar15
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:44 pm

So much for the 3rd world crap and China-US trade relations political garbage that has poisoned these threads! Good to see some reputable regulating bodies demanding some answers in the flying publics interest! I expect EASA will follow.
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Blotto
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:44 pm

par13del wrote:
So the reports of eye witness's talking about flames from the a/c and baggage falling before the crash have been officially discounted?


I would expect reports of debris and/or baggage to be found along the flight path. It's of course hard to prove something not being there, but it's awefully silent regarding news of debris outside of the crash site.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:46 pm

eidvm wrote:
IAA expected to follow suit and ground the 737 MAX in Irish Airspace, will have quite the impact for Norwegian and for any 737MAX operator flying transatlantic flights.


This is getting very interesting and changing hourly, how long can the US and Canada hold out?
 
vfw614
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:46 pm

It probably has been mentioned here, but anyway: Does a national ban mean a ban on operating the aircraft by national carriers anywhere in the world + a ban on operating the aircraft to/from said country - or does it also cover crossing that countries airspace without actually taking off or touching down at an airport in that country?
 
Someone83
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:47 pm

Norwegian is grounding their 737 MAX aircraft
 
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GCT64
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:47 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
UK Bans 737 MAX 8s from UK airspace ...

Just in via Twitter :
@ReutersUK
7m7 minutes ago
JUST IN: UK Civil Aviation Authority has issued instructions to stop any Boeing 737 MAX 8 commercial passenger flights arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace


It doesn't appear to be immediately applied. Not long after that instruction was issued a THY 737 MAX departed LGW and there are at least two TOM 737 MAXs inbound to MAN (one from RAK and one from ALC).
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:48 pm

Turkish have two inbound to the UK, LGW and Birmingham. It will be interesting to see if they divert to Paris, then are grounded there.
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GCT64
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:48 pm

vfw614 wrote:
It probably has been mentioned here, but anyway: Does a national ban mean a ban on operating the aircraft by national carriers anywhere in the world + a ban on operating the aircraft to/from said country - or does it also cover crossing that countries airspace without actually taking off or touching down at an airport in that country?


It's covered above. The UK CAA said "stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace"
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LakerLiker
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:49 pm

vfw614 wrote:
It probably has been mentioned here, but anyway: Does a national ban mean a ban on operating the aircraft by national carriers anywhere in the world + a ban on operating the aircraft to/from said country - or does it also cover crossing that countries airspace without actually taking off or touching down at an airport in that country?


The UK Civil Aviation Authority has been closely monitoring the situation, however, as we do not currently have sufficient information from the flight data recorder we have, as a precautionary measure, issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace.

Pretty clear from UK CAA that it also includes overflying by other countries.
 
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Finn350
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:50 pm

vfw614 wrote:
It probably has been mentioned here, but anyway: Does a national ban mean a ban on operating the aircraft by national carriers anywhere in the world + a ban on operating the aircraft to/from said country - or does it also cover crossing that countries airspace without actually taking off or touching down at an airport in that country?


As I understand, the authority can implement the ban any way they want. For example, at least initially, the China CAAC grounding affected domestic operators only, and in principle you could fly a foreign aircraft to Chinese airports. UK CAA banned the aircraft completely, i.e. no 737MAX commercial flights in their air space.
Last edited by Finn350 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:50 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
There's not really any evidence that the Lionair accident would have happened in the FAA regime. Any 121 carrier in the US would have grounded and fixed that airplane long before the accident flight. So at least on the current evidence, it's reasonable to say that FAA action beyond what they've done isn't necessary.


If you are relying on a single sensor input - then you are single point of failure.

That can go at any time.

What would happen if there were a bird strike which damaged the AoA indicator?
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:52 pm

-Doc Lightning-

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Elementalism
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:52 pm

ytz wrote:
Elementalism wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I've received messages from family members urging me to reschedule any flights I may have scheduled on the MAX.

The PR nightmare for other MAX operators is just starting, can't really win in this situation either way.


The hysteria of people is on full display here. Tell them not to drive their cars tomorrow. Still far more dangerous than the 737-MAX.


The lack of concern for public safety and prioritization of profits is also on full display.

Tell me. How many have to crash before folks like you might say a precautionary grounding is warranted?

What's your number?

Two frames? Three? Four?

Mine is two. You now have two crews reporting faulty airspeed indication on departure and minutes later lawndarting their bird. If this happened in any environment where profit was not a consideration (say military), a partial or full grounding would have been ordered. Heck, I'm willing to bet if this second crash happened in the US, American carriers would be voluntarily grounding the type. "Dumbass foreigners" provides a nice fig leaf of separation.


My number is two frames lost for the same reasons. Two separate crashes for differing reasons is no reason to ground an aircraft. That is filed under crap happens. afaik we do not know why this plane went down. Premature to ground them. It is all knee jerk hysteria.Which is par for humanity. We love to dwell on stopping rare events.

If MCAS is to blame then by all means ground them until Boeing creates a fix.
 
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:53 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
It's way beyond a technical question now. It's a PR and Ethical one first and foremost.


Which is not based on rationality & facts.


Welcome to the world of Facebook.
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birdbrainz
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:55 pm

747megatop wrote:
birdbrainz wrote:
747megatop wrote:
I emailed out an advisory to my family and friends and it goes like this -

"While commercial aviation is extremely safe; far safer than driving, please avoid flying on the MAX 8 version of the 737 if possible because 2 brand new planes have fallen out of the sky with suspicions that there could be some design issue. While the aviation industry debates it whether the 2 crashes are related and whether it indeed IS a design related issue or something else it, as the old adage of "prevention better than cure" goes....better to be safe than sorry."


Just curious. Are you planning a similar cancellation of advisory if these two accidents had causes other than a design issue?

It's amusing. I'm sure we have a lot of "safety-conscious" types avoiding the MAX after reading stuff like this, and then while driving home texting their friends to do likewise.

Well, do you text and drive? Then simple answer - DON'T.


I'm puzzled by that response. What does that have to do with what I said? My point is that I've never seen any industry where those who don't work in it talk as though they are experts.

Anyhow, Boeing has a real Sh#$storm brewing and had better come up with answers and reassurance quickly. Or to put it another way, it's a great day to not be the 737MAX senior program manager.
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Cubsrule
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:55 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
There's not really any evidence that the Lionair accident would have happened in the FAA regime. Any 121 carrier in the US would have grounded and fixed that airplane long before the accident flight. So at least on the current evidence, it's reasonable to say that FAA action beyond what they've done isn't necessary.


If you are relying on a single sensor input - then you are single point of failure.

That can go at any time.

What would happen if there were a bird strike which damaged the AoA indicator?


We're now dealing in hypotheticals, which is somewhat different from regulating based on service history, no? The issue with that is that you have to compute the odds that a bird strike takes out exactly one AoA sensor (not that it misses each of them, and not that it takes them all out). That's a challenging calculation.
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vfw614
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:58 pm

LakerLiker wrote:
vfw614 wrote:
It probably has been mentioned here, but anyway: Does a national ban mean a ban on operating the aircraft by national carriers anywhere in the world + a ban on operating the aircraft to/from said country - or does it also cover crossing that countries airspace without actually taking off or touching down at an airport in that country?


The UK Civil Aviation Authority has been closely monitoring the situation, however, as we do not currently have sufficient information from the flight data recorder we have, as a precautionary measure, issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace.

Pretty clear from UK CAA that it also includes overflying by other countries.


Sure, but I was not referring to the UK specifically but what the scope of a ban in general is (apparently there is none, as I have learned from Finn350). Reason I am asking is that if more and more countries block their airspace, at some point it does not really matter if an airline is banned from operating the type by its national aviation authority as it becomes impractical to operate the type in a commercially meaningful way because of necessary detours etc. (that is, of course, outside the USA/Canada where any such impact would be minimal). I was specifically thinking about Norwegian and a closure of, for example, French airspace for them. But that is a moot point now given that Norwegian has stopped flying the MAX as well.

Interesting, by the way, that TUIfly has its first 737 MAX8 ready for immediate delivery to Germany at Boeing. Will be interesting to see if they keep in the US or circumvent UK airspace (unless the German CAA pulls the plug, of course).
Last edited by vfw614 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Elementalism
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:05 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Don't we kinda need to know why the plane crashed to determine that the FAA and Boeing were wrong? I mean, ground if you want to, and if the FAA and Boeing say to then great as well. However, the known known - MCAS - has already been addressed with interim measures. Either it happened again and the crew didn't handle it (for whatever reason) or something else happened. If something unrelated to MCAS happened, then as in virtually every other crash we wait to get a preliminary idea of what happened and go from there. Obviously there's more to it than that but I don't think it's crazy to wait for CVR/FDR reviews before determining the fate of the 737/Boeing/FAA.


That isn't how a mob works. No time to find out what happened. Just do something, anything!
 
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:05 pm

ytz wrote:
...................................
They grounded the 787 with no fatalities. Yet seem willing to roll the dice on the 737. In part, because I think they don't want to look bad. After all, it's the same outfit that certified the MAX.


Ominously for B, this likely indicates a few things. They know there is no easy fix for 737Max compared to the fix to 787.
Remove MCAS & Max becomes un-certifiable.
Add redundancy to the AoA sensors ? Is it possible without major changes to the 737 architecture ?
Tweaking MCAS, training manuals now may just be putting more lipstick onto the lipstick on a pig.
Plus everyone will now be watching the FAA like a hawk on how they test & certify this new fix.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:05 pm

vfw614 wrote:
Interesting, by the way, that TUIfly has its first 737 MAX8 ready for immediate delivery to Germany at Boeing. Will be interesting to see if they keep in the US or circumvent UK airspace (unless the German CAA pulls the plug, of course).


I believe they can ferry it empty to Germany through UK airspace as the ban says "stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace"
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:06 pm

Gingersnap wrote:


This is big news, lots of maxes flying in and out daily.
Last edited by Armodeen on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:07 pm

And now Norwegian has grounded all their MAX fleet...
 
LifelinerOne
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:10 pm

According to Reuters, Norwegian grounds all B737MAX-flights after the advice of European regulators...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKBN1QT1U5

Does this mean the EASA will announce the grounding across the whole of the EU soon?
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1ffb2002
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:10 pm

UK just grounded all MAX 8 aircraft. I really think this is a bit premature. What if the ET plane was improperly configured (e.g. flaps not deployed)? The FO was extremely junior. This is a possibility.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:12 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
There's not really any evidence that the Lionair accident would have happened in the FAA regime. Any 121 carrier in the US would have grounded and fixed that airplane long before the accident flight. So at least on the current evidence, it's reasonable to say that FAA action beyond what they've done isn't necessary.


If you are relying on a single sensor input - then you are single point of failure.

That can go at any time.

What would happen if there were a bird strike which damaged the AoA indicator?


We're now dealing in hypotheticals, which is somewhat different from regulating based on service history, no? The issue with that is that you have to compute the odds that a bird strike takes out exactly one AoA sensor (not that it misses each of them, and not that it takes them all out). That's a challenging calculation.


No - I gave you an example of where no matter how rigorous you MX regime, or diligent your people, you are still one single bit of bad luck away from possible disaster.

Things break on aircraft all the time. That's why there are MMELs. You don't have everything on your MMEL healthy, then no flying.

What about icing? What about bad maintenance? What about ramp rash? What about the thing just jamming up because some crap got into the bearings?

Its a very bad system - and should never have been certified as it currently stands.
Last edited by Amiga500 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Gingersnap
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:12 pm

1ffb2002 wrote:
UK just grounded all MAX 8 aircraft. I really think this is a bit premature. What if the ET plane was improperly configured (e.g. flaps not deployed)? The FO was extremely junior. This is a possibility.


Well there are guys and girls with less than 300 hours flying airliners in the UK/EU. So let's not put blame solely on that fact.
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Richie72
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:13 pm

Apologies I this has been discussed earlier but I notice two TK flights in the air right now en-route to BHX and LGW. With the CAA grounding MAXs will they be allowed to continue or has the grounding not come in to effect yet? Thanks!
Last edited by Richie72 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
uta999
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:13 pm

uta999 wrote:
Turkish have two inbound to the UK, LGW and Birmingham. It will be interesting to see if they divert to Paris, then are grounded there.


One to LGW appears to be turning back or diverting now.
Last edited by uta999 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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juliuswong
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:13 pm

Number of 737 MAX in Fleet Status Airline
22 Grounded China Southern Airlines
18 Grounded Norwegian Air
15 Grounded Air China
15 Grounded TUI fly
11 Grounded Hainan Airlines
11 Grounded Shanghai Airlines
10 Grounded Xiamen Airlines
10 Grounded Lion Air
9 Grounded Jet Airways (includes 4 being repossessed by lessors due to non-payment)
7 Grounded Shandong Airlines
7 Grounded GOL Airlines
6 Grounded SilkAir
6 Grounded Shenzhen Airlines
6 Grounded Aeromexico
5 Grounded Aerolineas Argentinas
5 Grounded Oman Air
4 Grounded Ethiopian Airlines
4 Grounded China Eastern Airlines
3 Grounded Lucky Air
2 Grounded Cayman Airways
2 Grounded Fuzhou Airlines
2 Grounded Kunming Airlines
2 Grounded Okay Airways
2 Grounded Eastar Jet
2 Grounded Royal Air Maroc
2 Grounded Eastar Jet
1 Grounded 9 Air
1 Grounded Garuda Indonesia
1 Grounded Comair
1 Grounded MIAT Mongolian Airlines

34 In use Southwest Airlines
24 In use Air Canada
24 In use American Airlines
13 In use SpiceJet
13 In use WestJet
11 In use FlyDubai
11 In use Turkish Airlines
7 In use Smartwings
4 In use Sunwing Airlines
3 In use Air Italy
3 In use Icelandair
2 In use Fiji Airways
2 In use S7 Airlines
1 In use SCAT

5 Unknown LOT
2 Unknown Enter Air
1 Unknown Mauritania Airlines
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Countries that have banned Max 8 or Max family from operating in their territories:
Malaysia
Australia
Oman
Singapore
China
Indonesia
UK

LATEST UPDATES:

Oman Air and Norwegian Air grounds its Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKBN1QT1U5
https://www.nst.com.my/world/2019/03/46 ... s-airports

S.Korea's budget carrier decides to ground Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-0 ... 888994.htm

TUI Group grounds all 737 Max operation
https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/co ... 16301.html
Last edited by juliuswong on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
Gingersnap
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:09 pm

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:16 pm

THY4TW was en-route IST-LGW.

Appears to have done a u-turn just southeast of Prague. I guess they're headed back.
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cdin844
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:16 pm

Heard a segment on NPR this morning about grounding all MAX planes. They interviewed a bunch of passengers who were saying that Southwest and American needed to ground their planes and had absolutely nobody on the segment to dispel the hysteria. Not a single person saying that the Lion Air plane was not airworthy at the time of flight, and not a single person saying that we don't yet know the cause of the EA flight. So disappointing to see that kind of coverage.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8361
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:16 pm

1ffb2002 wrote:
UK just grounded all MAX 8 aircraft. I really think this is a bit premature. What if the ET plane was improperly configured (e.g. flaps not deployed)? The FO was extremely junior. This is a possibility.


The UK has a history of grounding exactly because it is unknown what happened. See Comet 1.

You can always allow the frames to fly again, if there is enough information and for example the plane was not properly configured.
You can not review the passengers when a third crash happens.
 
StreetF117
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:38 am

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:17 pm

How many airliners are currently left operating the aircraft?


Looks like mainly the USA airlines.

They will probably will keep operating until the FAA says so.
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uta999
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:17 pm

Norwegian flight from Stockholm to Tel Aviv is now returning too. Turkish flight to Birmingham is turning back to IST.
Last edited by uta999 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar
LTU330
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:40 pm

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:18 pm

scbriml wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
Do we have any idea if MCAS was even enabled? From the Lion data, they pilots didn't retract the flaps until about 1800' agl, and MCAS isn't enabled with flaps extended. Did the Ethiopian aircraft even achieve 1800'? Supposedly, the problems started shortly after takeoff, when the flaps were extended, possibly eliminating MCAS as a major cause of the accident.


Because of the lack of FR24 coverage in rural Ethiopia, we have no idea what final altitude ET302 reached or its flap configuration at that altitude.

While MCAS should not have been involved immediately after take-off, it's within the realms of possibility that it kicked in later in the flight while the crew were fighting other issues.


I agree, and, if the reported speed of around 400 Kts is true, the Flaps and Slats would certainly be retracted.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 12901
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:19 pm

The UK Civil Aviation Authority is (still) very close to EASA, I think the FAA & Boeing thought too long again.
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