bob75013
Posts: 867
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:15 pm

hibtastic wrote:
As others have said, the onus should be on Boeing to prove beyond doubt that the aircraft is safe.

Over to you Boeing...



I'm sure you can educate Boeing on how to do that.

Over to you hibtastic.
Last edited by bob75013 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
zakelwe
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:36 am

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:15 pm

hibtastic wrote:
I cannot believe some of the posts I have read trying to make excuses for the fact that authorities and airlines have chosen to ground their MAX fleets. As others have said, the onus should be on Boeing to prove beyond doubt that the aircraft is safe.

Over to you Boeing...


You've already assumed it is a Boeing issue and their plane so fall into the same bucket as other people, but from the other side.

It seems sensible to be very cautious as you say, there does seem to be an indication there is an issue here. However as we do not fully know the reason for the Lion Air crash or this one, to say "over to you Boeing" makes assumptions before the facts are known.

For instance it could still be a lack of training or incorrect training in conjunction with the new system. Perhaps both will be changed? Maybe fault is shared. It's too early to tell.

But, you have apportioned blame already, when instead people should be concentrating on reducing any risk and expediting investigation and correction where needed.
 
triple3driver
Posts: 131
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:16 pm

Been a long time silent reader, but finally decided to start posting. As a former 737 pilot, I can tell you that, from what I read about MAX pilots not receiving additional training from the NG, it is an extremely irresponsible move on Boeing's part to not disclose the new Runaway Stabilizer Trim procedure. On the NG, we would have to pull hard against the yoke to cancel out the trim, which cancels it out. However, AFAIK, on the MAX, you must flick the CUTOUT switches in the center control panel, and you can say whatever you want about whether this is a good solution or not, I prefer the yoke solution, but like it or not, pilots should have been informed about this change. Now, my airline doesn't operate the MAX and doesn't yet have orders, though I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the fleet in the future. However, IIRC, pilots regularly switch between the NG and the MAX, and they fly about the same, no additional training, until you have an emergency and pulling on the yoke doesn't work, and you can't figure out why. See the issue? Good thing that Boeing published that bulletin so that such a tragedy will never happen again, and pilots will be informed. But we haven't figured out what caused the aircraft to go down in the first place, whether a faulty pitot tube or something else. And now a chillingly similar accident has occured, [threeid]after[threeid] informing pilots of the situations. What caused the aircraft to have issues in the first place, why has the procedure not been effective as far as we know, and how does this affect other 737 MAX aircraft. That is too big a risk to take, no wonder so many countries are grounding the type, and why the FAA should follow suit. So what if they ground it and the MCAS system has nothing to do with it? Better safe than sorry is what is supposed to be our motto, and these planes should remain grounded until either it is established that there is nothing is wrong with the deign of the aircraft or the issue is fixed, permanently.
If you can walk away from it intact, it was a good landing!
 
yycdel
Posts: 142
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:17 pm

How come China Southern, Lion Air, Air China are still flying it?

https://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B38M
 
aircatalonia
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:50 pm

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:18 pm

CrimsonNL wrote:

Looks like OR458 is headed for the Canaries! PHTFN

Martijn


Couldn't they just ground the planes starting tomorrow? Why incur such pointless costs?
Last edited by aircatalonia on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
WIederling
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:18 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
D L X wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I disagree. WN and AA gave pilots who know how to follow their training an emergency procedures should it become necessary. That said, it hasn’t been necessary for those airlines.

What is a bad safety culture and putting money first is dispatching an airplane with a know AOA vane problem.

Wait, do you know that? Because people have been asking that question: whether any other MAX drivers have had to perform the trim stab procedure in response to MCAS activation.


No I don’t know it, I guess. It hasn’t been reported to my knowledge though.

https://leehamnews.com/2019/03/12/uk-ba ... ent-258145
should link to text cited by OV-099 March 12, 2019
Carl Liu wrote:
, a 23-year-old pilot who has been flying 737s since last June for a Chinese domestic airline, said the new model would sometimes show that the aircraft was climbing steeply even though it was climbing by 10 degrees, and automated systems would nudge the plane’s nose down, causing a temporary loss of control.


some comparable cites below !?
Murphy is an optimist
 
Pt56
Posts: 39
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:21 pm

Zakelwe the plain seams to have issues and we don't know exactly what, its Boeing joob to find and solve those so that we all can use the plain without safety doubts.

Maybe Boeing has zero flout and its just a very unlikely coincidence, still safety first right? Ignorance about a problem does not mean there is no problem.
Last edited by Pt56 on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
sadiqutp
Posts: 277
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:22 pm

With india being the latest to ban Max, FlyDubai remains the only major operator flying the Max other than NA
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:23 pm

1ffb2002 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
STLflyer wrote:

Sadly, even if ET turns out to be pilot error, pilot suicide, terrorism or something else completely unrelated to the MAX, the damage to the reputation is done


Yep. All the experts on A.net are sure it’s MCAS though. But your point is valid.


MCAS is NOT operative when flaps are deployed. The ET aircraft never achieved sufficient altitude to retract flaps. So what am I missing. I learned this whilst reading the posts here on Anet. This has been further confirmed by other news articles I have read. And your point is?


You’re missing the point that it’s inconclusive what altitude the airplane achieved and whether the Flaps were retracted. That has also been stated all over this thread.

I had a very clear point actually. Even though no-one yet knows what caused ET, many posters on A.net assume it was MCAS. Further, the guy’s other point was valid too. Regardless of what caused ET, even if not the airplane’s fault, damage is done to the airplane’s reputation.
Last edited by BoeingGuy on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
D L X
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:23 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
D L X wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I disagree. WN and AA gave pilots who know how to follow their training an emergency procedures should it become necessary. That said, it hasn’t been necessary for those airlines.

What is a bad safety culture and putting money first is dispatching an airplane with a know AOA vane problem.

Wait, do you know that? Because people have been asking that question: whether any other MAX drivers have had to perform the trim stab procedure in response to MCAS activation.


No I don’t know it, I guess. It hasn’t been reported to my knowledge though.

OK. Thanks, man.
 
KLM747er
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:24 pm

TUI Netherlands flight 942 also made a u-turn above Romania for diverting, PH-TFO
And TUI Netherlands flight 458 is diverting to Gran Canaria, PH-TFN

KLM747er
Last edited by KLM747er on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Cathay777300ER
Posts: 41
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:25 pm

GOL ferrying 4 maxes to Belo Horizonte from Florida
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:26 pm

D L X wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
D L X wrote:
Wait, do you know that? Because people have been asking that question: whether any other MAX drivers have had to perform the trim stab procedure in response to MCAS activation.


No I don’t know it, I guess. It hasn’t been reported to my knowledge though.

OK. Thanks, man.


Pretty sure there have been no reports of another crew reporting MCAS problems and having to Cutout the Stabilizers.
 
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:28 pm

Kudos to Senators Richard Blumenthal, Dianne Feinstein, and Mitt Romney for calling on FAA to #Ground737Max.
 
Cathay777300ER
Posts: 41
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:29 pm

With Germany's decision to ban the max for three months I wonder if it's a bit pre mature. I think the grounding is a sensible reaction however I also agree we don't know the facts and I question the logic behind such a long ban at this point.
 
WIederling
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:30 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
No I don’t know it, I guess. It hasn’t been reported to my knowledge though.

https://leehamnews.com/2019/03/12/uk-ba ... ent-258145
should link to text cited by OV-099 March 12, 2019
Carl Liu wrote:
, a 23-year-old pilot who has been flying 737s since last June for a Chinese domestic airline, said the new model would sometimes show that the aircraft was climbing steeply even though it was climbing by 10 degrees, and automated systems would nudge the plane’s nose down, causing a temporary loss of control.


some comparable cites below !? the quoted cite part
Murphy is an optimist
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 377
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:31 pm

triple3driver wrote:
Been a long time silent reader, but finally decided to start posting. As a former 737 pilot, I can tell you that, from what I read about MAX pilots not receiving additional training from the NG, it is an extremely irresponsible move on Boeing's part to not disclose the new Runaway Stabilizer Trim procedure. On the NG, we would have to pull hard against the yoke to cancel out the trim, which cancels it out. However, AFAIK, on the MAX, you must flick the CUTOUT switches in the center control panel, and you can say whatever you want about whether this is a good solution or not, I prefer the yoke solution, but like it or not, pilots should have been informed about this change. Now, my airline doesn't operate the MAX and doesn't yet have orders, though I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the fleet in the future. However, IIRC, pilots regularly switch between the NG and the MAX, and they fly about the same, no additional training, until you have an emergency and pulling on the yoke doesn't work, and you can't figure out why. See the issue? Good thing that Boeing published that bulletin so that such a tragedy will never happen again, and pilots will be informed. But we haven't figured out what caused the aircraft to go down in the first place, whether a faulty pitot tube or something else. And now a chillingly similar accident has occured, [threeid]after[threeid] informing pilots of the situations. What caused the aircraft to have issues in the first place, why has the procedure not been effective as far as we know, and how does this affect other 737 MAX aircraft. That is too big a risk to take, no wonder so many countries are grounding the type, and why the FAA should follow suit. So what if they ground it and the MCAS system has nothing to do with it? Better safe than sorry is what is supposed to be our motto, and these planes should remain grounded until either it is established that there is nothing is wrong with the deign of the aircraft or the issue is fixed, permanently.


IMO, Boeing pushed the very edge of the envelope, developing a bigger and much more efficient plane, while desperately trying to keep it within the old type certificate, making it “ plug-and-play” for Airlines already operating 737’s. A new type requires extensive and VERY expensive training programs, for everyone from ramp agents to pilots, something Boeing was trying to avoid.

In the end, a whole new type certification may be required, and that will kill the program.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:32 pm

blueflyer wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
So according to your “expertise” the 737max is so flawed that is should be discontinued and Boeing should exit the 150’seat market. All this based on 2 accidents of which we don’t know the cause or the solution. And yes Boeing wouldn’t be forced out of the 150-200 seat market for the foreseeable future. So I want to know what your background is to make such a demand.



Didn't you know that everyone here has a PhD in aeronautical engineering with 25+ years work experience?

I'd settle for the ability to read and think before hitting that shiny blue Submit button, although I doubt 25 years' experience in these fields may be enough for some still.... Where exactly did I advocate discontinuing existing models?

Well there is no future 737 planned after the Max. You clearly said the 737 should be retired. It doesnt mean the NG should be withdrawn but you’re clearly saying the MAXs should be discontinued and the remaining 5000 not built.
 
cuban8
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:32 pm

sadiqutp wrote:
With india being the latest to ban Max, FlyDubai remains the only major operator flying the Max other than NA


Very strange to see FlyDubai and the GCAA not following Oman and instead continuing to operate as usual. Especially after the recent FZ981 crash, I would have thought they would be more cautious.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:32 pm

WIederling wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
No I don’t know it, I guess. It hasn’t been reported to my knowledge though.

https://leehamnews.com/2019/03/12/uk-ba ... ent-258145
should link to text cited by OV-099 March 12, 2019
Carl Liu wrote:
, a 23-year-old pilot who has been flying 737s since last June for a Chinese domestic airline, said the new model would sometimes show that the aircraft was climbing steeply even though it was climbing by 10 degrees, and automated systems would nudge the plane’s nose down, causing a temporary loss of control.


some comparable cites below !? the quoted cite part


Thanks. First I’ve heard of that report.
 
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PW100
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:33 pm

1ffb2002 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
1ffb2002 wrote:
This thread is getting ridiculous. Posting that officials are influenced by money over safety is completely unsupported by fact. FAA grounds on fact not hysteria. There are no facts showing that the MAX is dangerous. There indeed have been two serious crashes with large loss of life, but there are no facts yet from the second crash. Let's get some preliminary data prior to condemning government authorities, leaders, corporations, etc. If this is a configuration error on takeoff made by a very junior FO, this grounding and hysteria are moot.


There are two facts, two new 737-8 crashed with loss of all lives under similar circumstances. Boeing and the FAA need to show that the 737MAX is not dangerous.


Not similar circumstances, one achieved 10,000 ft in altitude, retracted flaps, pilots unaware of MCAS system which was enabled, and the aircraft had a previously reported AOA instrument issue. For ET, the planecould not climb, probably never retracted flaps, which means the MCAS system was not enabled. The pilots were aware of MCAS, but given the low altitude of the plane when control was lost, flaps were not retracted and therefore MCAS could not be an issue with this plane. I have not read of any issues with the plane's equipment. These are very different circumstances. Only the media seems to be conflating these crashes, but that is to be expected.


We do not know which altitude ET reached. FR24 data suggests that three minutes before the crash it was around 1000 ft. Do you have altitude data of the last three minutes of flight, between the FR24 cut-out and crash?

Secondly, the same FR24 data suggests it reached air speed close to 400 kts. Wouldn't you agree that flaps would be expected to be retracted at that sort of speeds?
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
B747forever
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:34 pm

sadiqutp wrote:
With india being the latest to ban Max, FlyDubai remains the only major operator flying the Max other than NA


With the EU and India banning the MAX from their skies they are very much affected by this whole ordeal. Might as well ground it.

With so many countries/airlines grounding the MAX, it must make it harder for the US and Canada to defend their stance in allowing MAX ops.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
akb88
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:37 pm

Maybe I'm naive but surely something must have been uncovered in these investigations that have made several national authorites and the EASA ground the planes. Facebook posts wouldn't force a decision like that.
 
hibtastic
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:37 pm

bob75013 wrote:
hibtastic wrote:
As others have said, the onus should be on Boeing to prove beyond doubt that the aircraft is safe.

Over to you Boeing...



I'm sure you can educate Boeing on how to do that.

Over to you hibtastic.


No I cant but I did not design or build it. If there is no fault, then Boeing should be able to prove that reasonably quickly (they are under enormous pressure to do so now after all) then all of the airlines can get back to operating their aircraft as normal; however imagine if there is a fault and another one comes down with more unnecessary loss of life; unthinkable isn't it.

I am not apportioning blame to anyone but the cautious approach is the way forward and Boeing as the manufacturers of said aircraft have their part to play in investigating thoroughly and I am sure they are doing so as we speak.
 
Starfuryt
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:37 pm

TB3052 seems to be doing circles over Venice, been at 15k feet for a while
https://www.flightradar24.com/JAF3052/1fc734da
 
Arion640
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:38 pm

cdin844 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Airlines doing there best to get their fleets home judging by flightradar.
American airlines or are you referring to the other grounded ones?


Other grounded fleets, mostly in europe.
223 319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 764 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 MD83 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

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devron
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:39 pm

so Fiji, Fly Dubai, and US airlines are still flying flying? Hope we can find a sollution in the next weeks as I have a trip of a lifetime in the south pacific and plan to fly fiji their 737 max.
 
hibtastic
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:40 pm

zakelwe wrote:

You've already assumed it is a Boeing issue and their plane so fall into the same bucket as other people, but from the other side.

It seems sensible to be very cautious as you say, there does seem to be an indication there is an issue here. However as we do not fully know the reason for the Lion Air crash or this one, to say "over to you Boeing" makes assumptions before the facts are known.

For instance it could still be a lack of training or incorrect training in conjunction with the new system. Perhaps both will be changed? Maybe fault is shared. It's too early to tell.

But, you have apportioned blame already, when instead people should be concentrating on reducing any risk and expediting investigation and correction where needed.


Not at all. As you say it might not be a fault with the aircraft at all however surely the onus is on Boeing to prove this now? As i said in another reply, I am sure they are doing exactly that. My point before was that grounding is ABSOLUTELY the right decision until we know otherwise.
 
Pt56
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:41 pm

Imagine that tomorrow we have an incident with an B737 Max how will the FAA be able to respond to that?. After a de facto worldwide grounding of the aircraft.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:43 pm

bob75013 wrote:
WN has over 41,000 MAX flights worth of data, I suspect that WN knows a hell of a lot more about the plane than you do.


They have all that flight data, but are they serious about how they use it? We are talking about an airline that has come under fire from the FAA over safety issues in the recent past and then there was this....

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pennsylvania-airplane-inspections/southwest-challenged-engine-maker-over-speed-of-safety-checks-idUSKBN1HQ0PE
 
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Finn350
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:44 pm

Cathay777300ER wrote:
One FlyDubai flight on the way to Helsinki. Most likely won't be allowed into Finnish airspace so might end up in Saint Petersburg.


It looks like that it will land in Helsinki (and probably fly empty back). Any other option would be a logistical nightmare (because of Visa requirements in Russia etc.).
 
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Carlos01
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:45 pm

B747forever wrote:
With so many countries/airlines grounding the MAX, it must make it harder for the US and Canada to defend their stance in allowing MAX ops.


Indeed. And again, no matter how unlikely, but just imagine IF a third one would end up in tiny pieces on the ground, even over a populated area this time. That would be effectively an intentional conspiracy to mass murder another 100+ people. Good luck with all that.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:45 pm

ytz wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
ytz wrote:

Nobody gets a say on flight safety apparently unless they have a PhD in Aero Eng and 25+ years experience?

I have two masters (aero and astro) from an American service academy and two decades in the air force with several tours as an engineering officer. Guess I don't meet the cutoff.....

While your background is impressive and I’m sure Airbus or Boeing would hire you, you probably wouldn’t on day one be the guy who convinces everyone to scrap the 737 for a replacement program.


I've not said scrap the program. But there's lots of folks here who seem to think calls like mine for a precautionary grounding aren't warranted. I've seen a base commander ground a fleet of 30 aircraft to find a single oil rag. That's a safety culture. Given the contextual similarities, I can't understand those who'd argue a temporary grounding isn't warranted. And you shouldn't need decades of experience and graduate degrees in engineering to make that call.

I’m not against a grounding. But that wasn’t what you were arguing for. There are a whole bunch of posters here saying that Boeing was negligent in the design of the Max and are indeed arguing for the production of the 737 Max to be shut down and killed off. Saying essentially the aircraft is irredeemable. There are others who now 8 years later insist that Boeing should and easily could have made a clean sheet 737 design in 2011 despite the cost of the 787 program taking up Boeing’s resources. I think it is absurd to claim that Boeing put a plane in the air that they knew was inherently unsafe and they pushed the 737 program beyond its capabilities. But yet a.net knows best
 
pygmalion
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:47 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:

IMO, Boeing pushed the very edge of the envelope, developing a bigger and much more efficient plane, while desperately trying to keep it within the old type certificate, making it “ plug-and-play” for Airlines already operating 737’s. A new type requires extensive and VERY expensive training programs, for everyone from ramp agents to pilots, something Boeing was trying to avoid.

In the end, a whole new type certification may be required, and that will kill the program.



Did you know that the 757, 767 and the 777 share a common type rating?
 
hivue
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:52 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
A few days will see it back in the air if its no big problem.


What makes you think we'll know in "a few days" if there's "no big problem?" There's been no report from Indonesia on the Lion Air CVR, and I think none is expected for months. The rest of the reporting from authorities has been pretty scant. I don't think it's even been confirmed that the Lion Air crew actually failed to do the runaway stab trim procedure. It could be a long time before we know the details of what happened in Ethiopia.

MAXs can't stay AOG for very long. What story do the airlines/authorities that have grounded it give when it starts to get really expensive but no clear information regarding the accident has been provided?
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:53 pm

Just a reminder on a few rules that have been regularly broken in this thread. After spending the past 2 hours and reading last few hundred posts the following rules are the ones that have been violated the most and this is just a simple reminder to keep within the guidelines of what we expect from everyone

Copyright violations - if you are adding something to your post which is not yours it needs to be sourced whether it is from twitter, a news source or something else with a link provided. You must add your own comments of which must contribute to the discussion and not be only a couple of words, if you are quoting text no more than 40% (fair use) is to be quoted. If any of these are not met unfortunately we have to remove your post and subsequent reference posts as well.

Please do not post in all caps, it can come across as offensive and you simply make your point without it.

Finally please discuss the topic without the personal comments. Do not incite trouble or provoke other users.
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MrBretz
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:54 pm

[url][/url]
Starfuryt wrote:
TB3052 seems to be doing circles over Venice, been at 15k feet for a while
https://www.flightradar24.com/JAF3052/1fc734da


Under 10000 ft now. I think they are going to land somewhere before BRU.

Edit: looks like a diversion because of the grounding.
Last edited by MrBretz on Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:54 pm

Will Boeing be held liable for the loss of income from every airline that had to ground its B737-MAX planes? Could be in the billions (trillions) of dollars.
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:54 pm

In the USA when was the last time a fleet was grounded because of crashes? Was it the 737 with the rudder actuator issue?
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:56 pm

14ccKemiskt wrote:
Remember the rudder issues of UA585 and US427?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

Given what we now know caused these accidents, should the 737 have been grounded after US427 happened?



I remember flying on a 737 back then. I was 13 or 14 and was pretty scared.
 
marcelh
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:56 pm

aircatalonia wrote:
CrimsonNL wrote:

Looks like OR458 is headed for the Canaries! PHTFN

Martijn


Couldn't they just ground the planes starting tomorrow? Why incur such pointless costs?

Because it’s just money
 
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flyingclrs727
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:56 pm

With 3 US Senators calling on the 737 Max to be grounded, I think the FAA will be under pretty strong pressure to ground the Max.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-737 ... pia-crash/
 
FCAFLYBOY
Posts: 641
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:03 am

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:57 pm

MrBretz wrote:
[url][/url]
Starfuryt wrote:
TB3052 seems to be doing circles over Venice, been at 15k feet for a while
https://www.flightradar24.com/JAF3052/1fc734da


Under 10000 ft now. I think they are going to land somewhere before BRU.


Looks to be heading to BLQ to me, lucky crew, nice city for an unexpected night stop!
 
BravoOne
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:57 pm

I hear EASA just pulled the plug and grounded the MAX.
 
IWMBH
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:58 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
14ccKemiskt wrote:
Remember the rudder issues of UA585 and US427?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

Given what we now know caused these accidents, should the 737 have been grounded after US427 happened?



I remember flying on a 737 back then. I was 13 or 14 and was pretty scared.


The 737 should've been grounded then, small miracle that ''only'' two planes crashed.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:58 pm

1ffb2002 wrote:
UK just grounded all MAX 8 aircraft. I really think this is a bit premature. What if the ET plane was improperly configured (e.g. flaps not deployed)? The FO was extremely junior. This is a possibility.


It reached 383kn at least (without being in a dive), at that speed you don't need flaps.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
FCAFLYBOY
Posts: 641
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:03 am

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:59 pm

BravoOne wrote:
I hear EASA just pulled the plug and grounded the MAX.


Yep, even India’s DGCA now too. All eyes on AA/UAWN/AC/WS/WG now. That and the FAA and FlyDubai
 
stylo777
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:01 pm

OR 942 HRG-AMS is about to land in SOF;
TB3052 HRG-BRU still circling over VCE;
FZ1783 DXB-HEL is at 39.000 feet and no signs of diversion at the moment;
QS1837 TSF-TLV also crusing over the MedSea approach Southern Italy right now;
TB320 OST-BRU is probably repositioning only and just landed in BRU;
6B 298 FUE-ARN also seems to finish the day at its final destination ARN;
QS4571 KEF-LPA is West of Portugal over the Atlantic;
QS4160 SID-PRG also still cruising over Morroco,
FZ 729 DXB-KBP (interesting reg. A6-MAX) turned towards Ukraine over Romanian airspace;
NAX1TD shows departed FNC without destination and currently ober NLD;
 
D L X
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: Should airline regulators consider grounding B737 MAX series

Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:01 pm

pygmalion wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:

IMO, Boeing pushed the very edge of the envelope, developing a bigger and much more efficient plane, while desperately trying to keep it within the old type certificate, making it “ plug-and-play” for Airlines already operating 737’s. A new type requires extensive and VERY expensive training programs, for everyone from ramp agents to pilots, something Boeing was trying to avoid.

In the end, a whole new type certification may be required, and that will kill the program.



Did you know that the 757, 767 and the 777 share a common type rating?

I do not believe that is true.

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