B1168
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CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China

Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:48 pm

According to Weibo (Chinese Twitter) Information release, there are major cancellations on flights within China operated by 737 MAX, sign of CAAC grounding all 737 MAX planes. This is not confirmed yet, but based on CAAC’s conservative approach for safety issues, it is highly likely.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:50 pm

Looks to be true, no Chinese 737 MAX’s are airborne currently.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:53 pm

I'm sure both Boeing and the FAA are working extra hard to make sure the worries or airlines and pax are addressed. Until we know for sure what happened I don't blame either side, but I believe it is an overreaction.
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tigerzhong13
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:03 am

Was told this news earlier.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:03 am

Last edited by Scarebus34 on Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
Aither
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:04 am

Why i am not surprised..
Expect other asian carriers to follow as we dont want to be seen as caring less about the life of our pax.
Never trust the obvious
 
downdata
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:06 am

There are only, what, 20 maxes flying in China? Pretty easy to ground the jets without causing any disruptions
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:07 am

downdata wrote:
There are only, what, 20 maxes flying in China? Pretty easy to ground the jets without causing any disruptions


More like well over 60.
 
Zaf
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:08 am

Still nothing from FAA and EASA. Strange times we live in. The Chinese care more about safety and peoples lives than €urope and U$A
 
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keesje
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:09 am

During the early 787 problems,the FAA was together with DoT and Boeing publicly claiming everything was under control.
2 Days later the Japanese authorities were first to ground the 787 after another incident, The FAA 2 days after that.
If the FAA grounds a fleet, they admit something again went wrong during certification. To be avoided.
Last edited by keesje on Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:09 am

The dominos are falling for Boeing. And rightfully so. A lot of MAX decisions coming home to roost.
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SoCalPilot
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:17 am

Add Cayman Airways to the list also. They've announced the grounding of their 2 Max 8's.

https://www.caymanairways.com/mobile/CA ... Operations
 
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Aesma
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:19 am

Well it's a double edged sword for China, if the C919 has early accidents they will be forced to do the same.
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sadiqutp
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:21 am

And ET is still flying the max so far ....Interesting!
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:25 am

It’s confirmed

http://3g.163.com/news/article/E9VIR0UT ... aidu_adapt

CAAC has issued an urgent notice ordering all Chinese airlines to ground B737MAX for the time being

This morning Mar 11th, all originally scheduled B737MAX flights departing from PEK have been switched to B737-800 ops

Chinese airlines are reported to have more than 60 B737MAX jets in their fleets

Safety above all else, a wise move
 
maverick4002
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:27 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
Add Cayman Airways to the list also. They've announced the grounding of their 2 Max 8's.

https://www.caymanairways.com/mobile/CA ... Operations


Oh Cayman Airlines, who are they? Only 2 aircraft, no biggie. /s
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:31 am

China has Airbus assembly lines and wants more. They are just scratching their back in my opinion.
 
Lufthansa
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:34 am

Aesma wrote:
Well it's a double edged sword for China, if the C919 has early accidents they will be forced to do the same.


Hang on a second, get off the national flag waving fan boy outcome. This has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the C919. There's
serious unanswered questions about this latest 737 and it's very important for us all that we find out why. Other types have had issues
in the past. The Russians famously lost a TU-144 at the Paris Airshow, the A320 was also lost in similar circumstances, perhaps the most
famous of them all was the DC-10's first few years, the Comet wasn't reinforced enough for pressurisation. The most important thing here
is whe try and find out exactly whats going on so whatever changes need to be made can be done so urgently. If the Chinese make
this call, it's merely saying we just want to urge on the side of safety until we understand what's happening.
Last edited by Lufthansa on Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
neutronstar73
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:35 am

Aesma wrote:
Well it's a double edged sword for China, if the C919 has early accidents they will be forced to do the same.


Eh....that's not going to happen. Ever. They could have 3 crashes in a day with the C919 and they will not ground their flagship project. Much easier for China to ground a foreign aircraft.
 
Sooner787
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:36 am

This looks like a repeat of the 737 classics that had the uncommanded rudder movements
that caused crashes, though I don't remember how many.

Praying the Boeing engineers can solve this MAX mystery asap
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:41 am

Why do some seem to think that safety regulators are overreacting by grounding the aircraft?

There have now been 2 events that do have similarities 4 months apart, which does raise question marks about safety issues that MAY exist with the type.

Each country has the right to take action they see fit to keep their people safe, so although some will not agree, such a reaction is completely justified.

Let’s wait for the investigations to determine the exact causes, but until then, there will be some doubt in the minds about this aircraft type.
 
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keesje
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:42 am

We probably should see this as a precaution action, until further research into possible security breaches have been completed, a bit like Huawei.
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Yossarian22
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:44 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
China has Airbus assembly lines and wants more. They are just scratching their back in my opinion.


So, you are saying the CCP would cause disruptions to their own state run and national carriers to get a few more Airbus factories?
[twoid][/twoid]
As an expat in China, nobody loves a good China bashing more than me, but I will say that the CAAC is actually doing the responsible thing. Short of the crash obviously being a pilot error, a mechanical fault due to shoddy maintenance, or weather, having two of these planes fall out of the sky in such a short period of time, thy need to be grounded until they are deemed safe.
Last edited by Yossarian22 on Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
juliuswong
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:45 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
China has Airbus assembly lines and wants more. They are just scratching their back in my opinion.

You must have forgotten Boeing also has a completion centre for 737 at Zhoushan, China.
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downdata
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:50 am

[twoid][/twoid]
neutronstar73 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Well it's a double edged sword for China, if the C919 has early accidents they will be forced to do the same.


Eh....that's not going to happen. Ever. They could have 3 crashes in a day with the C919 and they will not ground their flagship project. Much easier for China to ground a foreign aircraft.


Then they would lose all of their creditability. But if anything, history shows its the FAA that is relucatant to ground defective US products even after the discovery of obvious and fatal flaws in design. DC10 and 787 comes to mind.
 
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:54 am

Yossarian22 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
China has Airbus assembly lines and wants more. They are just scratching their back in my opinion.


So, you are saying the CCP would cause disruptions to their own state run and national carriers to get a few more Airbus factories?
[twoid][/twoid]
As an expat in China, nobody loves a good China bashing more than me, but I will say that the CAAC is actually doing the responsible thing. Short of the crash obviously being a pilot error, a mechanical fault due to shoddy maintenance, or weather, having two of these planes fall out of the sky in such a short period of time, thy need to be grounded until they are deemed safe.


And if the FAA says there's nothing wrong and refuses to ground the 737, then what? If Boeing is able to demonstrate that the 737 can be flown to a safe landing witg MCAS disabled then it comes down to bad pilot training.
 
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:57 am

Current operators in China:
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Hainan Airlines- 11
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10

That's a total of 91 MAX currently flying in China. Few more are pending delivery over the next few weeks, should be parked at factory now.
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aussie747
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:59 am

Zaf wrote:
Still nothing from FAA and EASA. Strange times we live in. The Chinese care more about safety and peoples lives than €urope and U$A

If that was the case then the Chinese would and still should be doing more to investigate mh370 , considering how many of their citizens perished. enough said
 
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:01 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Yossarian22 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
China has Airbus assembly lines and wants more. They are just scratching their back in my opinion.


So, you are saying the CCP would cause disruptions to their own state run and national carriers to get a few more Airbus factories?
[twoid][/twoid]
As an expat in China, nobody loves a good China bashing more than me, but I will say that the CAAC is actually doing the responsible thing. Short of the crash obviously being a pilot error, a mechanical fault due to shoddy maintenance, or weather, having two of these planes fall out of the sky in such a short period of time, thy need to be grounded until they are deemed safe.


And if the FAA says there's nothing wrong and refuses to ground the 737, then what? If Boeing is able to demonstrate that the 737 can be flown to a safe landing witg MCAS disabled then it comes down to bad pilot training.

Demonstrating an empty airplane and with passengers and luggage (real operating environment) are very much different. Then what? Countries regulator has the option to refuse their airline from operating MAX or refuse to/ revoke license on MAX, then Boeing will lose out in long term.
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juliuswong
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:03 am

aussie747 wrote:
Zaf wrote:
Still nothing from FAA and EASA. Strange times we live in. The Chinese care more about safety and peoples lives than €urope and U$A

If that was the case then the Chinese would and still should be doing more to investigate mh370 , considering how many of their citizens perished. enough said

Really? That is not even an equivalent comparison. How does China has any jurisdiction over a Malaysian-registered aircraft and a flight originated from Malaysia??
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TTailedTiger
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:05 am

aussie747 wrote:
Zaf wrote:
Still nothing from FAA and EASA. Strange times we live in. The Chinese care more about safety and peoples lives than €urope and U$A

If that was the case then the Chinese would and still should be doing more to investigate mh370 , considering how many of their citizens perished. enough said


Maybe the Chinese will ground the 777 tomorrow...
 
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:07 am

juliuswong wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yossarian22 wrote:

So, you are saying the CCP would cause disruptions to their own state run and national carriers to get a few more Airbus factories?
[twoid][/twoid]
As an expat in China, nobody loves a good China bashing more than me, but I will say that the CAAC is actually doing the responsible thing. Short of the crash obviously being a pilot error, a mechanical fault due to shoddy maintenance, or weather, having two of these planes fall out of the sky in such a short period of time, thy need to be grounded until they are deemed safe.


And if the FAA says there's nothing wrong and refuses to ground the 737, then what? If Boeing is able to demonstrate that the 737 can be flown to a safe landing witg MCAS disabled then it comes down to bad pilot training.

Demonstrating an empty airplane and with passengers and luggage (real operating environment) are very much different. Then what? Countries regulator has the option to refuse their airline from operating MAX or refuse to/ revoke license on MAX, then Boeing will lose out in long term.


Yeah I'm sure Boeing doesn't take that into account... Do you realize just what it takes to demonstrate the airworthiness of a new plane to obtain certification?
 
Yossarian22
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:08 am

juliuswong wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yossarian22 wrote:

So, you are saying the CCP would cause disruptions to their own state run and national carriers to get a few more Airbus factories?
[twoid][/twoid]
As an expat in China, nobody loves a good China bashing more than me, but I will say that the CAAC is actually doing the responsible thing. Short of the crash obviously being a pilot error, a mechanical fault due to shoddy maintenance, or weather, having two of these planes fall out of the sky in such a short period of time, thy need to be grounded until they are deemed safe.


And if the FAA says there's nothing wrong and refuses to ground the 737, then what? If Boeing is able to demonstrate that the 737 can be flown to a safe landing witg MCAS disabled then it comes down to bad pilot training.

Demonstrating an empty airplane and with passengers and luggage (real operating environment) are very much different. Then what? Countries regulator has the option to refuse their airline from operating MAX or refuse to/ revoke license on MAX, then Boeing will lose out in long term.


Yep, and you add to the fact that many crashes are not due to one issue, but due to a combination of bad choices and bad luck, this seems like a problem that needs to be better addressed. I think because of of the crashes were flown by airlines in the developing world has mislead some to believe that this is not that big of a deal, because pilots at airlines like UA, WN, or Lufthansa could better handle this problem.

As I said someplace else, it is clear that not every American pilot is an ace, we have seen accidents in recent years due to bad piloting. You have a plane flown by a captain and a first officer who are not the airlines ace pilots, in marginal weather, that is also the final rotation after a long day of heavy flying, the combination of marginal skills, marginal weathers, and fatigue, creates an environment where an accident can happen.
 
KCaviator
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:10 am

It's pretty sad when China and the Cayman Islands ground the MAX, but nothing has been done regarding safety here in the US. I applaud the companies that took the initiative of caring for the lives of their passengers, whether warranted or not. It's not going to happen here though. Too many political barriers. Boeing and the FAA are in bed together; nothing will be done.
Last edited by KCaviator on Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
globalflyer
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:10 am

I know that this in regards to CAAC carriers but someone mentioned KX. Being in DEN and we just welcomed the Max 8 with KX to GCM I can appreciate their decision. I am personally connected to all in senior management at KX and they are a wonderful group to work with. let's hope this is not related to the aircraft type and RIP to all of those affected by today's horrific tragedy. I have flown the same flight, ET302 and it gives me shivers.
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Yossarian22
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:10 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
aussie747 wrote:
Zaf wrote:
Still nothing from FAA and EASA. Strange times we live in. The Chinese care more about safety and peoples lives than €urope and U$A

If that was the case then the Chinese would and still should be doing more to investigate mh370 , considering how many of their citizens perished. enough said


Maybe the Chinese will ground the 777 tomorrow...


You know that is not a fair comparison. 777’s have been operating for decades and only one has fallen out of the sky for questionable reasons (we have no idea why MH370 crashed, so it is a question mark).
 
Zaf
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:10 am

TTailedTiger wrote:

Maybe the Chinese will ground the 777 tomorrow...


No need to ground it. The 777 is perfectly save to fly.
Only the 737MAX keeps diving and crashing.
 
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zeke
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:16 am

juliuswong wrote:

That's a total of 91 MAX currently flying in China. Few more are pending delivery over the next few weeks, should be parked at factory now.


Think that should say “That's a total of 91 MAX not currently flying in China.”
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B737900ER
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:19 am

Zaf wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Maybe the Chinese will ground the 777 tomorrow...


No need to ground it. The 777 is perfectly save to fly.
Only the 737MAX keeps diving and crashing.

Many, many 777 have had issues. Just because nobody died and it wasn’t a news story doesn’t mean there weren’t serious incidents. Same with any other aircraft ever made in history. Maybe they should have grounded the A330 since AF figured a way to crash it from cruise.

By the way, what exactly are they grounding the plane for? I didn’t realize they found the cause of the ET crash
 
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:20 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

And if the FAA says there's nothing wrong and refuses to ground the 737, then what? If Boeing is able to demonstrate that the 737 can be flown to a safe landing witg MCAS disabled then it comes down to bad pilot training.

Demonstrating an empty airplane and with passengers and luggage (real operating environment) are very much different. Then what? Countries regulator has the option to refuse their airline from operating MAX or refuse to/ revoke license on MAX, then Boeing will lose out in long term.


Yeah I'm sure Boeing doesn't take that into account... Do you realize just what it takes to demonstrate the airworthiness of a new plane to obtain certification?

I am pretty much aware how and what it takes to obtain an certification. But here we are Boeing has warmed up the original design so much it is giving issue which they haven't figured out how to solve it (albeit due to pending investigation). And that's two crashes in less than five months. For two brand new aircraft. Do you think the flying public will be kind to Boeing? Perhaps it is time to get down from high horse and accept the fact that 737max is indeed having issue hence countries have every prerogative to ground the fleet.
Last edited by juliuswong on Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kalvado
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:21 am

zeke wrote:
juliuswong wrote:

That's a total of 91 MAX currently flying in China. Few more are pending delivery over the next few weeks, should be parked at factory now.


Think that should say “That's a total of 91 MAX not currently flying in China.”

Yeah, as accurate as it gets!!
 
JAAlbert
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:47 am

Zaf wrote:
Still nothing from FAA and EASA. Strange times we live in. The Chinese care more about safety and peoples lives than €urope and U$A


It's been 20 hours since the accident and I would be very surprised if FAA and EASA had not received as much information as ET has regarding the accident. Perhaps these two agencies have not found a connection between the two crashes sufficient to issue a directive? You could accuse (perhaps unfairly) the FAA of being biased towards Boeing, but I don't see the benefit to EASA in playing that game.
 
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unrave
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:55 am

It is surprising that CAAC has taken the lead in grounding MAX aircraft while the FAA and EASA stay silent. Will be interesting to see if other regulators follow suit. (Indian) DGCA though is a toothless organisation that would merely parrot what the FAA tells them.
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:00 am

neutronstar73 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Well it's a double edged sword for China, if the C919 has early accidents they will be forced to do the same.


Eh....that's not going to happen. Ever. They could have 3 crashes in a day with the C919 and they will not ground their flagship project. Much easier for China to ground a foreign aircraft.


Please stop these uneducated comments. If any model has 3 crashes in a day, no airline will fly the plane even not grounded by any regulator.
 
kalvado
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:01 am

unrave wrote:
It is surprising that CAAC has taken the lead in grounding MAX aircraft while the FAA and EASA stay silent. Will be interesting to see if other regulators follow suit. (Indian) DGCA though is a toothless organisation that would merely parrot what the FAA tells them.

Remember - it is 10 PM on Sunday for FAA and early Monday morning for EASA as I write this. There should be a couple of official statements coming out on Monday. Grounding or not, Sunday night is not a good time for decisions like this.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:04 am

unrave wrote:
It is surprising that CAAC has taken the lead in grounding MAX aircraft while the FAA and EASA stay silent. Will be interesting to see if other regulators follow suit. (Indian) DGCA though is a toothless organisation that would merely parrot what the FAA tells them.


The answer is likely more mundane than you'd think. It's Sunday afternoon in the US, and before dawn in the EU when this decision is made. Being Federal Agencies, it's not reasonable to expect a lot of decision makers are on duty. Monday morning will be very telling about all this.
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juliuswong
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:05 am

unrave wrote:
It is surprising that CAAC has taken the lead in grounding MAX aircraft while the FAA and EASA stay silent. Will be interesting to see if other regulators follow suit. (Indian) DGCA though is a toothless organisation that would merely parrot what the FAA tells them.

For everyone's benefit here, Jet Airways currently has 8 (with 3 in storage due to lease delayed payment) and Spicejet has 13. A smaller population compared to US and China, perhaps they don't see an urgency to ground them yet.
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juliuswong
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:07 am

juliuswong wrote:
Current operators in China:
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10

That's a total of 96 MAX currently not flying in China. Few more are pending delivery over the next few weeks, should be parked at factory now.


Edited to include Lucky Air and Okay Airways which was left out earlier.

@zeke, thanks for the fix. Lol
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Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:08 am

unrave wrote:
It is surprising that CAAC has taken the lead in grounding MAX aircraft while the FAA and EASA stay silent. Will be interesting to see if other regulators follow suit. (Indian) DGCA though is a toothless organisation that would merely parrot what the FAA tells them.


The DGCA seemed to take the lead on the P&W A320neo problem.

As for a credible source for the OP...https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ijing-says
 
trex8
Posts: 5333
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: CAAC ground all 737 MAX in China(require confirmation)

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:19 am

Zaf wrote:
undertheradar wrote:
This is (just another) smoke n mirrors from the communist regime. In reality this is ALL POLITICAL BULLYING/the regime flexing its muscle. Nothing to do with China 'caring more about peoples safety/lives'. Are you completely blind to the communist regimes human rights atrocities (INCLUDING MURDERS....oh, I mean 'disappearances) of it OWN PEOPLE AND OTHER COUNTRIES PEOPLE WITHIN CHINA. The regime will always be 'the smiling assasin'


Well those human rights problems weren't mentioned when they bought those planes. Böing fans were cheering then. Now that the planes keep falling from the sky and China bans them, they get called the bad communists.


And the funny bit is that the "communists" are the biggest laissez faire no rules capitalist regime out there today. Though I totally agree they are a bunch of murdering autocrats.

Funny how Boeing Commercial Aircraft when Taiwan was making a decision to buy the Apache Guardian, made Boeing Corporate refuse to engage in any offset negotiations with Taipei when Bell and Sikorsky were tripping over themselves to send their products production line to Taiwan. That is until the Pentagon literally dragged Boeing Defense Systems kicking and screaming to the table to negotiate with Taipei as the US Army needed an early new production Apache guardian customer ASAP to reduce its own Apache upgrade program costs and a nice fat FMS contract from Taipei to add to its own upgrade contract was exactly what the US Army needed to kick off and sustain the Apache upgrade. All these machinations because Boeing Corporate was more interested in preserving its big commercial airliner market in the PRC and not upset Beijing by selling weapons to its adversary, just a simple small place who dont threaten anyone and where they believe, and practice, highly dangerous (for the CCP) concepts like "real" capitalism and free markets and true western liberal multiparty democracy. Beijing may well be flexing its "political muscle" today with a Max ban but Boeing Commercial and Corporate have long ago been kowtowing and brownosing to the Emperor in Heaven for greenbacks since Nixon. You think Xi and friends have any respect for a company like that? They'll probably demand, and get, an actual Max production line before any more orders from a mainland Chinese carrier.

But back on topic, maybe the Chinese are just careful like the Japanese were with the 787?
Last edited by trex8 on Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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