alan3
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:40 pm

Saw an AC 787 arriving in YVR from CPH yesterday. That route doesn't exist, so looked it up and it seems most of AC's DEL-YYZ and DEL-YVR flights now stop in CPH for refueling and crew change due to Pakistan overly restrictions that presumably make nonstop no longer possible.

Couldn't they fly the other way or would that involve additional China-Russia overfly rights? GCMAP routes DEL-YVR as not touching Pakistan at all.

Are other airlines flying between North America and India doing this....what about AI and UA?
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:49 pm

I saw on the United network thread that the UA flights from BOM and DEL to EWR were stopping in FRA and MUC for fuel.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3837
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:15 pm

alan3 wrote:
Couldn't they fly the other way or would that involve additional China-Russia overfly rights? GCMAP routes DEL-YVR as not touching Pakistan at all.


Indeed it would require additional overflight rights which they don't have. Avoiding Russian airspace might be possible with a stop in Japan or South Korea, but that would still require overflying China. Avoiding China would mean a detour over Vietnam, that's too far out. The detour over Europe is faster. Certainly to Toronto, flying east around Russia is not an option. West is way shorter.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1359
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:22 pm

If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2100
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:33 pm

AI's B77W and B77L are doing 18 hour nonstops on SFO-DEL route. Amazing!!

Check out playback of flight AI184 from San Francisco to Delhi on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/flights/ai184#1fb1771e

https://fr24.com/data/flights/ai174#1fbd3f3a
 
StormRider
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:35 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.

This "stop" has been happening only for the last 2 weeks or so and hopefully will get ironed out soon as Pak opens their airspace completely. Most people probably had booked way earlier in this case to change or cancel. (also plenty of Indian sr citizens find AI more comfortable in terms of food, language and prefer these non-stops than transiting through the EU - which most younger people like to do)
 
EK77WNH
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:42 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:54 pm

A couple of UA 77W flights into EWR dropped into Bangor, Maine last week.
Next Trip:
JAL 7-8 BOS-NRT-BOS, 787-9
September
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2100
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:02 pm

this thread is a dup of this viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1416825
 
texdravid
Posts: 1801
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:08 pm

StormRider wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.

This "stop" has been happening only for the last 2 weeks or so and hopefully will get ironed out soon as Pak opens their airspace completely. Most people probably had booked way earlier in this case to change or cancel. (also plenty of Indian sr citizens find AI more comfortable in terms of food, language and prefer these non-stops than transiting through the EU - which most younger people like to do)


As an Indian, I do NOT find north India centric AI more comfortable than other airlines. I find AI deplorable compared to western carriers. Why would people from BLR, HYD or MAA or Cochin prefer AI? So we can make a one stop trip into a two stop trip from places other than NY/ORD/SFO?

Yeah I can see how older Punjabis would like it. But South Indians? Hell no.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
COEWR787
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:12 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.

The easbounds are still non stop, at least for UA and AI. The westbounds cannot do their usual northbound out of India to avoid the jet stream, hence the need to refuel in Europe.
 
StormRider
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:24 pm

texdravid wrote:
StormRider wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.

This "stop" has been happening only for the last 2 weeks or so and hopefully will get ironed out soon as Pak opens their airspace completely. Most people probably had booked way earlier in this case to change or cancel. (also plenty of Indian sr citizens find AI more comfortable in terms of food, language and prefer these non-stops than transiting through the EU - which most younger people like to do)


As an Indian, I do NOT find north India centric AI more comfortable than other airlines. I find AI deplorable compared to western carriers. Why would people from BLR, HYD or MAA or Cochin prefer AI? So we can make a one stop trip into a two stop trip from places other than NY/ORD/SFO?

Yeah I can see how older Punjabis would like it. But South Indians? Hell no.

when did I say BLR MAA et al were commonly using these flights? It's mostly North Indians or central India coming from NY area and for some people who connect from DEL who use this....I was making a generalization for a non-Indian. Not for an Indian (who would know what I was talking about!)
 
nname
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:34 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
alan3 wrote:
Couldn't they fly the other way or would that involve additional China-Russia overfly rights? GCMAP routes DEL-YVR as not touching Pakistan at all.


Indeed it would require additional overflight rights which they don't have. Avoiding Russian airspace might be possible with a stop in Japan or South Korea, but that would still require overflying China. Avoiding China would mean a detour over Vietnam, that's too far out. The detour over Europe is faster. Certainly to Toronto, flying east around Russia is not an option. West is way shorter.


AC's regular routing for YVR-DEL is polar route and it does involve overflying Russia.

From Canada -> Russia -> Kazakhstan -> Uzbekistan/Kyrgyzstan -> Tajikistan -> Afghanistan -> Pakistan -> India

AC (as with most other airlines) does not fly over Himalayas, so polar route is no longer an option after the detour around Pakistan that adds ~3 hours to flight time.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:59 pm

texdravid wrote:
StormRider wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.

This "stop" has been happening only for the last 2 weeks or so and hopefully will get ironed out soon as Pak opens their airspace completely. Most people probably had booked way earlier in this case to change or cancel. (also plenty of Indian sr citizens find AI more comfortable in terms of food, language and prefer these non-stops than transiting through the EU - which most younger people like to do)


As an Indian, I do NOT find north India centric AI more comfortable than other airlines. I find AI deplorable compared to western carriers. Why would people from BLR, HYD or MAA or Cochin prefer AI? So we can make a one stop trip into a two stop trip from places other than NY/ORD/SFO?

Yeah I can see how older Punjabis would like it. But South Indians? Hell no.


Well AI seems to be getting quite a few people from HYD connecting in DEL to their nonstops (take ORD for instance). North vs South india has nothing to do with it. Some poeple (from Noth and South) don’t mind AI while others do (again from North and South). To each their own (while AI is crap they have some things going fo them). Your comment though, once again, smacks of your own bigotry. Unless you have some proof that Indian aviation is some how structurally discriminating against south india, I think you should stop suggested this. Airlines are not Noth or South. It is not a fact and you have never provided any proof.

Btw you should be happy AI hubs in DEL as they tend to distort the market because they are subsidized. AI has left most of the South to be dominated by other carriers. But for some strange reasons airlines tend to focus on DEL, BOM and now BLR (because economics, not regional pride, matters in business). They are very strong from Kerala to the Gulf because they can make money there.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1359
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:04 pm

I have noticed that (Western) airliners have NOT updated their schedules. Why not? As it is now, every airline arrives constantly "late" in DEL (usually by 1-3 hours). This creates MAJOR havoc with connecting flights.
And since this is now a well-known issue, EU 261 regulation applies which means that people can get a big $$$ payment for being "late".
Last edited by Dieuwer on Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:13 pm

texdravid wrote:
StormRider wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.

This "stop" has been happening only for the last 2 weeks or so and hopefully will get ironed out soon as Pak opens their airspace completely. Most people probably had booked way earlier in this case to change or cancel. (also plenty of Indian sr citizens find AI more comfortable in terms of food, language and prefer these non-stops than transiting through the EU - which most younger people like to do)


As an Indian, I do NOT find north India centric AI more comfortable than other airlines. I find AI deplorable compared to western carriers. Why would people from BLR, HYD or MAA or Cochin prefer AI? So we can make a one stop trip into a two stop trip from places other than NY/ORD/SFO?

Yeah I can see how older Punjabis would like it. But South Indians? Hell no.


Hahahahahha this nonsense again. How many decades have you spent spewing your hatred of AI here? I miss your friend Jaysit.
 
COEWR787
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:18 pm

As I recall it took a while even to get the more northerly polar route opened through Russia for the westbound nonstop flights from India to North America. On most days they are not used, but in the face of extremely powerful jet stream, they are used to head far north before heading west.

The eastbound United non-stop flight to Mumbai appears to be taking about the same time as before. The Delhi flight is taking an hour and a bit longer. Westbound the BOM flight is refueling at MUC and the DEL flight at FRA. UA probably has to fly a route that is a bit longer than some other airlines as they probably avoid Iran airspace too.
 
Junction
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:50 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:19 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I have noticed that (Western) airliners have NOT updated their schedules. Why not? As it is now, every airline arrives constantly "late" in DEL (usually by 1-3 hours). This creates MAJOR havoc with connecting flights.
And since this is now a well-known issue, EU 261 regulation applies which means that people can get a big $$$ payment for being "late".

Flights heading into DEL from North America are not affected, and can still fly non-stop.
 
alan3
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:45 pm

COEWR787 wrote:
As I recall it took a while even to get the more northerly polar route opened through Russia for the westbound nonstop flights from India to North America. On most days they are not used, but in the face of extremely powerful jet stream, they are used to head far north before heading west.

The eastbound United non-stop flight to Mumbai appears to be taking about the same time as before. The Delhi flight is taking an hour and a bit longer. Westbound the BOM flight is refueling at MUC and the DEL flight at FRA. UA probably has to fly a route that is a bit longer than some other airlines as they probably avoid Iran airspace too.


I guess that explains why AC is still flying BOM-YYZ nonstop while UA can't fly BOM-EWR nonstop. Seems that AC are looping south over the Arabian Sea and then directly over Iran and still able to do it nonstop (about 15.5 hours).
 
COEWR787
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:45 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I have noticed that (Western) airliners have NOT updated their schedules. Why not? As it is now, every airline arrives constantly "late" in DEL (usually by 1-3 hours). This creates MAJOR havoc with connecting flights.
And since this is now a well-known issue, EU 261 regulation applies which means that people can get a big $$$ payment for being "late".

EU regulations apply to flights that neither originate nor terminate in Europe, nor operated by a European regulated airline? Really?

I thought EU 261 applied only to flights originating or terminating in European jurisdiction or flown by an airline governed by an European jurisdiction. When did that change?

Last time I looked, neither United nor Air India were governed by European jurisdiction and the flight schedule for the US - India non-stop does not involve a scheduled stop in Europe.
 
COEWR787
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:51 pm

alan3 wrote:
COEWR787 wrote:
UA probably has to fly a route that is a bit longer than some other airlines as they probably avoid Iran airspace too.


I guess that explains why AC is still flying BOM-YYZ nonstop while UA can't fly BOM-EWR nonstop. Seems that AC are looping south over the Arabian Sea and then directly over Iran and still able to do it nonstop (about 15.5 hours).

Well, from BOM you don;t really have to loop south, you just don't head north across Pakistan. Instead you go a little further west and then turn north over Iran. It is from Delhi that you have to loop south to circumnavigate Pakistan.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1359
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:53 pm

COEWR787 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I have noticed that (Western) airliners have NOT updated their schedules. Why not? As it is now, every airline arrives constantly "late" in DEL (usually by 1-3 hours). This creates MAJOR havoc with connecting flights.
And since this is now a well-known issue, EU 261 regulation applies which means that people can get a big $$$ payment for being "late".

EU regulations apply to flights that neither originate nor terminate in Europe, nor operated by a European regulated airline? Really?

I thought EU 261 applied only to flights originating or terminating in European jurisdiction or flown by an airline governed by an European jurisdiction. When did that change?

Last time I looked, neither United nor Air India were governed by European jurisdiction and the flight schedule for the US - India non-stop does not involve a scheduled stop in Europe.


AF, AZ, KL, LH, LX, etc. do, and they are all massively delayed and refuse to adjust their schedules.
 
User avatar
sudenmorsian
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:43 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:53 pm

texdravid wrote:
StormRider wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.

This "stop" has been happening only for the last 2 weeks or so and hopefully will get ironed out soon as Pak opens their airspace completely. Most people probably had booked way earlier in this case to change or cancel. (also plenty of Indian sr citizens find AI more comfortable in terms of food, language and prefer these non-stops than transiting through the EU - which most younger people like to do)


As an Indian, I do NOT find north India centric AI more comfortable than other airlines. I find AI deplorable compared to western carriers. Why would people from BLR, HYD or MAA or Cochin prefer AI? So we can make a one stop trip into a two stop trip from places other than NY/ORD/SFO?

Yeah I can see how older Punjabis would like it. But South Indians? Hell no.


While my experiences are by no means universal, my family has loyally flown to Hyderabad from NYC on AI for years as my parents prefer the connection in DEL vs European connections (as well as food, language, environment that StormRider has mentioned above). Since there are no nonstop flights from the US to most South Indian cities (batting BLR), people have to connect somewhere; and in markets where AI flys it’s not an unattractive option.

It’s only now that I’ve moved to Dallas that I can hope to fly a different airline to HYD. :P
HPN · NYC
 
Bhoy
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:05 pm

COEWR787 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I have noticed that (Western) airliners have NOT updated their schedules. Why not? As it is now, every airline arrives constantly "late" in DEL (usually by 1-3 hours). This creates MAJOR havoc with connecting flights.
And since this is now a well-known issue, EU 261 regulation applies which means that people can get a big $$$ payment for being "late".

EU regulations apply to flights that neither originate nor terminate in Europe, nor operated by a European regulated airline? Really?

I thought EU 261 applied only to flights originating or terminating in European jurisdiction or flown by an airline governed by an European jurisdiction. When did that change?

Last time I looked, neither United nor Air India were governed by European jurisdiction and the flight schedule for the US - India non-stop does not involve a scheduled stop in Europe.
Aside from this, EU 261 doesn't apply when force majeure (ie Airspace being closed) is the reason for the delay - I would imagine most Airlines don't want to change their schedules to factor in the tech stop in case Airspace reopens from one day to the next, in which case the schedules really would be all over the place, adding an extra few hours to schedules - which is why I would imagine the likes of LH, AF, BA etc are sticking to their original schedules with Standby Aircraft being used ex-their Hubs for the subsequent rotation, and the delayed Frames immediately becoming the Standby Aircraft themselves upon return.
Last edited by Bhoy on Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
StormRider
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:07 pm

^^that's why my general point was, but apparently I did something very wrong by also including South Indians in the word "most Indian Sr Citizens"
Based on other responses to texdravid, it seems this is not his first time going off on people for no reason.

sudenmorsian, it is most likely a stop in the EU/Gulf for you unless that rumoured AI non-stop comes to Texas :-)
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:10 pm

United first tried to use Bangor, but there were challenges getting that far. They then used Halifax. They sent the replacement crew up there on a 737-900ER from EWR to meet the 777. They did that since there weren’t commercial flights available. Then they used KEF.

Now they are using FRA and MUC. Germany sounds like a better option
 
COEWR787
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:29 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
United first tried to use Bangor, but there were challenges getting that far. They then used Halifax. They sent the replacement crew up there on a 737-900ER from EWR to meet the 777. They did that since there weren’t commercial flights available. Then they used KEF.

Now they are using FRA and MUC. Germany sounds like a better option

It has to do with how reliably can you operate. Specially in the winter, strong jet stream on ones nose along the southern route that is of unpredictable strength day to day, makes attempt to do very long leg unreliable. Hence the nice middle ground - Germany, which coincidentally also is the home of the JV partner Lufthansa.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:31 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I have noticed that (Western) airliners have NOT updated their schedules. Why not? As it is now, every airline arrives constantly "late" in DEL (usually by 1-3 hours). This creates MAJOR havoc with connecting flights.
And since this is now a well-known issue, EU 261 regulation applies which means that people can get a big $$$ payment for being "late".


How can airlines update their schedules when the information keeps changing. Pakistani airspace was suppose to reopen last week March 5, it was then updated several times and several new deadlines for reopening the airspace have come and gone and her we are March 11th airspace is still closed. UA receives daily updates from the appropriate authorities on this situation which is still very fluid. So without any concrete information there is no permanent amendment to the schedule. Right now UA is operating on a rolling 4 day out update so for the next 4 days our flights from India will be stopping in FRA and MUC to refuel and recrew. If Pakistan opens their airspace everything will go back to normal but for now UA is staging full crews for both DEL and BOM at both FRA and MUC to recrew so these flights can continue on to the US.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:47 pm

COEWR787 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
United first tried to use Bangor, but there were challenges getting that far. They then used Halifax. They sent the replacement crew up there on a 737-900ER from EWR to meet the 777. They did that since there weren’t commercial flights available. Then they used KEF.

Now they are using FRA and MUC. Germany sounds like a better option

It has to do with how reliably can you operate. Specially in the winter, strong jet stream on ones nose along the southern route that is of unpredictable strength day to day, makes attempt to do very long leg unreliable. Hence the nice middle ground - Germany, which coincidentally also is the home of the JV partner Lufthansa.


THe problem with Germany is the curfew. The flights arrive just after curfew and that can even delay the departure from India.

Hopefully this won’t go on for much longer
 
COEWR787
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:02 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
THe problem with Germany is the curfew. The flights arrive just after curfew and that can even delay the departure from India.

Hopefully this won’t go on for much longer

Ah! That explains the later departure of the westbounds from DEL and BOM.
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 519
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:07 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.


The tickets were already bought, and this is presumably a temporary restriction - similar to a refueling stop for brutal counter winds - force majeure.
 
COEWR787
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:41 pm

spinotter wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.


The tickets were already bought, and this is presumably a temporary restriction - similar to a refueling stop for brutal counter winds - force majeure.

But YYZ or EWR to BOM or DEL eastbound is still non stop taking about the same time or a bit more for DEL. It is the westbound that requires a refueling stop, and has to run on a slightly later departure schedule from India to not run afoul of night curfew at the refueling stop in Germany. And yes, it is entirely temporary force majeure situation.
 
luckyone
Posts: 2773
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:31 am

COEWR787 wrote:
spinotter wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.


The tickets were already bought, and this is presumably a temporary restriction - similar to a refueling stop for brutal counter winds - force majeure.

But YYZ or EWR to BOM or DEL eastbound is still non stop taking about the same time or a bit more for DEL. It is the westbound that requires a refueling stop, and has to run on a slightly later departure schedule from India to not run afoul of night curfew at the refueling stop in Germany. And yes, it is entirely temporary force majeure situation.

Perhaps ACs equipment plays a role. Are they using the 77L?
 
LH658
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:44 am

Pakistan Airspace is open Ukraine Air, EK, EY, QR, CA, and other are operating through their airspace to flights to the Far East. Ukraine Air flight to Delhi is crossing into Pakistan. Afghanistan. I don't really see any one operating in Afghanistan Airspace such as AC etc, except TK, PK, EK, Kam Air, Fly Dubai, and Ariana Afghan Airlines. I heard on the other thread, that Indian ATC isn't cooperating much with Pakistan.
 
alan3
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:09 am

luckyone wrote:
COEWR787 wrote:
spinotter wrote:

The tickets were already bought, and this is presumably a temporary restriction - similar to a refueling stop for brutal counter winds - force majeure.

But YYZ or EWR to BOM or DEL eastbound is still non stop taking about the same time or a bit more for DEL. It is the westbound that requires a refueling stop, and has to run on a slightly later departure schedule from India to not run afoul of night curfew at the refueling stop in Germany. And yes, it is entirely temporary force majeure situation.

Perhaps ACs equipment plays a role. Are they using the 77L?


They use the 789 on both DEL routes.
They use the 77L from BOM, which isn't being diverted.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:53 am

COEWR787 wrote:
Well, from BOM you don;t really have to loop south, you just don't head north across Pakistan. Instead you go a little further west and then turn north over Iran. It is from Delhi that you have to loop south to circumnavigate Pakistan.


United Airlines does not enter into Iranian airspace in compliance with the FAA's warning which was issued last year waring US operators against planing flights over Iran. When the warning was issued UA put out a statement stating we were already in compliance since we weren't scheduling any of our flights through Iranian airspace. Now that Pakistan's airspace is still closed UA instead of heading north on a Polar route BOM now has to head out over the Arabian Sea then over Oman, the UAE, Iraq, Turkey on its way to Germany.
UA83 out of DEL instead of going north out of DEL goes southwest out over the Arabian Sea and follows the same path as BOM on its way to Germany. Hopefully Pakistan opens their airspace soon so these diversion end and we can get back to operating these flights as nonstop instead of one stop.
 
texdravid
Posts: 1801
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:52 am

sudenmorsian wrote:
texdravid wrote:
StormRider wrote:
This "stop" has been happening only for the last 2 weeks or so and hopefully will get ironed out soon as Pak opens their airspace completely. Most people probably had booked way earlier in this case to change or cancel. (also plenty of Indian sr citizens find AI more comfortable in terms of food, language and prefer these non-stops than transiting through the EU - which most younger people like to do)


As an Indian, I do NOT find north India centric AI more comfortable than other airlines. I find AI deplorable compared to western carriers. Why would people from BLR, HYD or MAA or Cochin prefer AI? So we can make a one stop trip into a two stop trip from places other than NY/ORD/SFO?

Yeah I can see how older Punjabis would like it. But South Indians? Hell no.


While my experiences are by no means universal, my family has loyally flown to Hyderabad from NYC on AI for years as my parents prefer the connection in DEL vs European connections (as well as food, language, environment that StormRider has mentioned above). Since there are no nonstop flights from the US to most South Indian cities (batting BLR), people have to connect somewhere; and in markets where AI flys it’s not an unattractive option.

It’s only now that I’ve moved to Dallas that I can hope to fly a different airline to HYD. :P


Notice how I excluded NYC, ORD, and SFO.
Welcome to DFW. Now you will see how using AI is
so silly for people in Texas to go to South India.

Yeah, as if anyone wants DFW-ORD-DEL-HYD!
Dude just go DFW-Europe stop-HYD or
DFW-Middle east pit stop-HYD.


Furthermore I don’t know how you have good vibes on AI to begin with. Your patience must be beyond godliness.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
raylee67
Posts: 678
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:01 am

anshabhi wrote:
AI's B77W and B77L are doing 18 hour nonstops on SFO-DEL route. Amazing!!

Check out playback of flight AI184 from San Francisco to Delhi on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/flights/ai184#1fb1771e

https://fr24.com/data/flights/ai174#1fbd3f3a


Your links show thatthe 77L is doing the non-stop. The 77W has been diverting to Sharjah to refuel consistently everyday.

Seems that only the 77L (and presumably the A345 which no one flies any more) can do US-India non-stop now.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 351 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
alan3
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:55 pm

Interesting flight path on FlightRadar.

Today (March 24)'s AC45 from DEL-YVR flew east/southeast over Bangladesh, Burma, then across southern China and then up over Japan across the Pacific.

Not sure if AC have stopped using CPH or if this is a one-off but that's a hell of a flight path for such a long flight...very southern path not polar at all.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2815
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:19 pm

alan3 wrote:
Interesting flight path on FlightRadar.

Today (March 24)'s AC45 from DEL-YVR flew east/southeast over Bangladesh, Burma, then across southern China and then up over Japan across the Pacific.

Not sure if AC have stopped using CPH or if this is a one-off but that's a hell of a flight path for such a long flight...very southern path not polar at all.


YVR-DEL-YVR is non stop both ways. YYZ-DEL is non stop, whereas DEL-YYZ will be stopping at YVR and not CPH sometime in the near future.

Definitely not a one off. They have been using that routing all of this week at least.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ac45

The flight is utilizing the tailwinds going eastbound. Longer distance, but time wise, it's similar or quicker than the usual route. Add in the fact that the flight can't use Pakistani airspace, and its much quicker to do DEL-YVR eastbound rather than northwestbound.

AI DEL-SFO does the same thing, and has been for around 2 years now.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ai183
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
gunnerman
Posts: 863
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:10 pm

The tech stops in CPH go up to 29 March, afterwards all flights are scheduled to be nonstop.
 
VTORD
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:11 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Well AI seems to be getting quite a few people from HYD connecting in DEL to their nonstops (take ORD for instance).

AI126/127 is actually a HYD-DEL-ORD routing. The same a/c completes continues to/from HYD

CaliguyNYC wrote:
North vs South india has nothing to do with it. Some poeple (from Noth and South) don’t mind AI while others do (again from North and South). To each their own (while AI is crap they have some things going fo them). Your comment though, once again, smacks of your own bigotry. Unless you have some proof that Indian aviation is some how structurally discriminating against south india, I think you should stop suggested this. Airlines are not Noth or South. It is not a fact and you have never provided any proof.

Btw you should be happy AI hubs in DEL as they tend to distort the market because they are subsidized. AI has left most of the South to be dominated by other carriers. But for some strange reasons airlines tend to focus on DEL, BOM and now BLR (because economics, not regional pride, matters in business). They are very strong from Kerala to the Gulf because they can make money there.

:checkmark: :checkmark:
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1359
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:27 pm

jayunited wrote:
COEWR787 wrote:
Hopefully Pakistan opens their airspace soon so these diversion end and we can get back to operating these flights as nonstop instead of one stop.


Not going to happen anytime soon.
 
User avatar
Spiderguy252
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:53 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
jayunited wrote:
COEWR787 wrote:
Hopefully Pakistan opens their airspace soon so these diversion end and we can get back to operating these flights as nonstop instead of one stop.


Not going to happen anytime soon.


And your reasoning is?
Vahroone
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3150
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: AC flights from DEL now via CPH. Are other North America-India routes affected?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:53 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
If that's the case, then why pay for a FAKE non-stop flight? Might as well buy a one-stop on an European carrier from YYZ or EWR to DEL and pay MUCH LESS.


Because a fuel stop is much faster than a plane change at any airport.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos